Anime Dubs Aren't Cringe, Anime Is
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2023
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Man who watches most of his anime subbed defends dubs. Saw the hate around the Oshi no Ko dub circulating not too long ago and got me wanting to discuss the age old dubbed vs subbed debate. "The English voices are cringe"? My brother in Haruhi you are watching ANIME. Cringe is a given.
Twitter: / nasuprime
Twitch: / nasuprime
"Anime is japanese, but it is not Japan."
This has gotta be the biggest truth pill that some people just refuse to swallow.
It is Japan. Completely Demonic.
It worries me how this even needs to be clarified in the first place. Having your entire perspective of a culture based on works of fiction and trying to apply those ideas in reality is a recipe for disaster.
The amount of times I've heard stories about people whose dream is to live in Japan only to move back within a year is very telling. It doesn't help that places like Tokyo cater to this ideology considering how heavily tourism has influenced it.
@@acuilnosWell, that doesn't account for family guy
Especially considering how most of Japan viewed anime and Otaku for the longest time. There's a big, BIG difference between something like a Miyazaki flick, or even something like Stein's Gate, and shows like is Is it Wrong to Pick Up Girls In a Dungeon or half of the other bottom of the barrel isekai slop that's made almost exclusively to sell silicon figures, Blu-Rays, and other merch to a very small demographic of turbo-Otaku.
Then administer it rectally
I think the biggest issue with a lot of dubs is that they try to find someone with the same voice as the Japanese VA in other languages. If they just tried to match the voice actor to the character based on how we perceive a common stereotype in said language it would be fine. For example, it’s bad when the character in Japanese has a nasally voice and we try to imitate that in English. It sounds horrible because the character doesn’t match the stereotype in a different language.
I fully agree, it all comes down to feel. A Japanese chill guy and an American chill guy sound very different but so long as they both emphasize the chill aspect it’s possible for either one to fit better. A good example would be Spike, no disrespect to the Japanese va but the English performance is just next level despite it not being the original.
random but once my high school English teacher asked us to read a book for 20 minutes every day as homework for the semester and some kid in my class asked if watching anime subbed and reading the subtitles counted in which my teacher said that it counts so they watched anime the entire semester instead of reading some book
It reminds me of Dragon Ball Z's Frieza in the Latin American dub. He has a much deeper voice, since villains weren't usually portrayed with high pitched voices. Funnily enough, the VA for the Latin American wanted to do the voice a little bit closer to the original japanese VA, but was told not to, because they thought it sounded very affeminate. However, when the actor was re-cast for Dragon Ball Super, he acted the voiceover much closer to the original japanese VA, even though he still has a deeper voice
@@jeremiahjones4605 Absolute W
@@jeremiahjones4605 Legend!
If I could've written about every anime I watched in highschool, I would've had straight A's XD
Weebs: Sub or dub?
Chads: Intensely study Japanese only to never watch anime
Probably me if I do end up learning Japanese seriously instead of learning 1 column of hiragana a day for 3 days the forgetting about it for 3 months
This is like picking choice E on a multiple choice question on a test and still getting it right.
sigma: studies other languages to make their rizz international
It’s funny because this is my exact situation, I’ve always loved anime, and have started learning Japanese, but I don’t like watching sub lol. I only watch a bit of anime in Japanese to help me learn.
@@brrrt1-1 I am going to learn japanese (hopefully), i say going to bc i am too lazy to do it, ive done hiragana and can read basically most of it, now to just learn to write the second half bc ive started that too.
But another thing is im also too lazy to go turn on the anime bc I get distracted with something else like drawing or playing games :/
but one day i shall learn all the languages I want to learn and watch all the anime i told myself i would watch
I prefer anime subbed, but Trigun is an absolute must to watch dubbed. Not only is the canon language English, Vash literally says "I can't read that" when shown Japanese.
it would not be uncommon for a Japanese person to be unable to read something in Japanese. Just saying.
Same for JJBA.
At least, the Part I & II.
Why? Dummy simple. They are taking place in England (Part I) and United States. (Part II)
I yet have to begin Part II, but decided to start Part I English Dubbed. And honestly, the dub and accents of VAs are great.
@@Renopus dub dio and dub joseph are especially amazing
damn I miss Vash
Trigun is an unbelievably boring show though
As an Athenian a Greek and also ahistory geek . I truly thank you kind sir Nasu for educating me about Sokrates thesis on dub anime
Χαιρετισμοί από την Τραπεζούντα Τουρκία Τα συλλυπητήρια μου για την πυρκαγιά στην Ελλάδα, γίνετε καλά σύντομα
BARS
@@user-ng8uy2px7q ευχαριστώ πολύ φίλε μου ..😔
Καλά τα λες μεγάλε
As a Homeric Greek major, I can say that this is completely accurate
The biggest problem in my opinion with dubbing is the script. Every country has its own culture and way of speaking and as a result the product of a scriptwriter is by default, better sounding in the language they were thinking of in their heads while writing it. For example, you mentioned that if a game took place in ancient Greece, the voice acting should be done in Greek. Let's just say that as a Greek dude, I've never seen anything sound even remotely good in Greek. Whether that be AC Odyssey or God of War or anything else really. I played GoW a few months ago and I was really happy to try the Greek dub of the game. Thankfully Sony is one of the few publishers that actually cares to provide them since Playstations sell a lot in Greece. While I do believe that great voice actors exist in Greece, what I heard in the game was pure mediocrity. And I believe that has nothing to do with the voice actors themselves. See, an American dude that sat down in his office to write the script of the game about a god slaying Greek, doesn't really care about the way Greeks speak. I firmly believe that unless the script was written by a Greek person or someone who has lived in Greece for years, the Greek dub would never sound good. Honestly after many years of coming across various bad dubs (mainly in anime) I was led to believe that Greek was just not a very cool language. And then a month ago I went to the theater to watch an ancient greek tragedy for the very first time. It will be an understatement to say that my mind was blown away by how amazing the acting and the script was. Especially considering that it was written 2000+ years ago. It sounded so poetic and conveyed so much feeling in every word spoken by the actors. Anyways, I've gotten a bit off topic but from my understanding people will write scripts that fit their language and their peoples' way of speaking. Great video as always man, really enjoyed this one!
I think I understand it
Yes. The subtitles will use the biggest words at times and make sentence look way more sophisticated than it really is, often ruining jokes because Japanese tones either sound goofy to convey a joke or not when being serious. So when they're telling a joke but using the monotone voice, you're so used to the goody exaggerated reactions being the jokes that the monotone jokes are serious. The fact that they use OBVIOUS silly faces as well makes you think those are the only kind of jokes in the show
I aint readin allat
You don't really see sounds my guy
Agreed on this. As an Indian the Hindi dubbing of Japanese shows (whether anime or LA) is always changed to fit the cultural aspects of here & the voice actors do great work at this.
I notice anime has a real issue with being overly expository, and as you explained it sticks out way more in my ear when it’s done in English than Japanese. I’m currently watching 86 which I enjoyed subbed, I’m now watching the dubbed version and it definitely does not hit the same.
I'm watching Jujutsu Kaisen right now and holy shit this. Characters will literally narate shit that just happened or is currently happening.
"Ah, theyre attacking me simultaneously! Normally I'd be able to regenerate quickly, but this pressure is stopping that. I need to break free."
It's CONSTANT.
@@peenerparker846, I watched both versions of chainsaw man and saw no drop off in either version subbed/dubbed, so I’m not sure your point is wholly valid.
Yes, but that's kind of the fun in Jojo. In Vento Aureo Trish managed to trigger Diavolo to NOT run away (which ended up killing him) through expositions!
@@alastor8091 Yeah, that's a constant issue with JJK. "I was only able to do this thanks to my technique. By applying X amount of energy with X amount of force I was able to deal more damage than usual." Just so much jargon.
@@peenerparker846 you need to be flamboyant and act your heart out to get away with "inner speech" lines.. something Americans aren't capable of.. and that's excluding weirdos that add sh*t about the patriachy societies in their dubs... Dubs are cringe. America is cringe. Glad I don't live there.
As a Greek viewer, thanks for the Socrates bit. I laughed so hard, I almost coughed up a lung 🤣
I'm Canadian and I'm still snickering at that. Such a great joke
Norwegian, and that was my favorite bit too.
Martian, thouroughly examined the human concept of humor, intriguing
Alien, zubizorp lebubip lit bogos. yip yop biblebip nib!
@@holey5065 bogos binted?
The Saiki K dub is legendary, it just comes to choosing good voice actors. It is so good I was actually upset that the newer seasons werent dubbed in english.
Saiki K is just so good it works in everything. I watched the VO, the English dub and the French dub and they’re all so good.
The comedy of that anime is unmatched !
And berserk
Ghost stories:🤗
Ikr...
I’m usually a huge subs>dubs guy but Saiki K dub is so superior it’s no contest.
I personally believe it's because as English speakers, we understand the tone, pitch, and phrasing of our language, which can make it sound less full or real. In sub, we just hear fury or rage and the monkey part of our brain picks up on that a whole lot more than we do looking at all of the parts of speech.
I agree, back when i was a kid and didn't understand english everything in english sounds cool. However now that i'm bilingual and fully understand english, i can feel cringe from english dialogue.
As a non-native English speaker I don't agree with this at all. Understanding English didn't lessen the effect good acting has on my emotions. In fact, i think it opened me up to a fuller experience as compared to watching stuff dubbed or subtitled. So far my experience with western cinema has only been better and more engaging since i started watching stuff with just the original audio and nothing else. So many subtle details were just lost on me before. I think i would feel the same way about watching anime in Japanese with no subtitles. So no, not understanding something doesn't enrich other parts of the experience in my opinion. You might feel that way because you don't know what subtleties you might be missing. And the dub also won't convey them in most cases because it's simply impossible to translate. Most langauges have a lot of stuff that just can't be translated.
that is exactly correct, and what all the subtards don't understand. you cannot accurately judge the performance of a person if you can't understand the language they are speaking in
NEURON ACTIVATION one might call it
I don't think that was the argument @@sumimasent3039
This man just explained and perfectly proved a point I've been trying to say for YEARS to my friends, and cuz I suck at arguing they never listen to me. I'm sending them all this video right now/
Nah his points are cringe. Very ignorant
Why many preferred JP dubs is simple because the dubber is more experienced and had more quality, Japan invested lots of money in that sector.
compared to the rest of the world.
Like Genshin Impact or Arknight, JP Dubber is better because they had more experienced and easier to hire and cheaper
@ truthboom
Dude, he literally had that as one of his points in the video
@@WhyNot-mj3hj nah he's arguing that it's because of anime culture that made dubber cringe but in fact it's just experience and the quality
@@truthboom found the weeb
@@crimson5pider found the ignorant one, doubt you even know the origin of "weeb"
I love the use of accents in the One Piece dub - the Bege New York accent, Dressrosa's Spanish accents, etc. I wish there was more of it. I thought for sure Wano would be filled with Japanese accents.
I believe "infinite status" did that, the British girl had a British accent, French girl French accent and so on, the only ones without accents being the American, the Japanese, and the Chinese girls.
@@final_zoink😂😂 you mean Infinite Stratos AHAHAHA what a throwback
@@final_zoink I guess they generally avoid accents for Asian characters cause it might come across as being more offensive. I think the only English dubs I've heard with one or two characters having a Chinese/Japanese accent were Black Lagoon and Hetalia dubs.
@@redgrave4492 the more offensive the funnier
THE ONE PIECE
The mo cap for the DMC games was done by the English VAs. SO technically the Japanese voice over IS the dub.
The Japanese is so much worse. Same for Metal Gear
is not just that dante is not even japanese the mf is a mega white dude from America like leon and christ lol
@@blacky8987should’ve been british
@@blacky8987
Your comment had me laughing out loud
@@maroonringthe Metal Gear comparison is low key offensive. the Japanese audio is THE recording, it's Kojima's production, and the English dubs were done completely without his supervision. He liked hearing it in English, but he was never a fan of the actual dub. The main characters have a completely different, cartoonish tone, and Raiden is made a parody of his design completely without reference to Kojima's casting. Naruto or JoJo's are FAR superior dubs.
I'm a dub fan but one complaint I agree with is how small the dubbing scene is compared to the rest of American cartoon voice acting. I notice the same voices way more often in dubs than in cartoons or animated films.
I'm sorry, that's bullshit. They use the same few dozen voice actors in both anime and non-anime content.
@@ender7278 It depends. Some are better at doing different voices.
Sadly, they aren't all like Steve Blum (who was no only Spike, but Leeron from Gurren Lagann and Guilmon from Digimon Tamers).
H Jon Benjamin is in practically every adult western cartoon now. The voiceover landscape is tiny in the west. The only times you hear "new" voice are when they get some celebrity to do voiceover and then that celebrity delivers a thoroughly mediocre performance.
Same honestly. I get used to 1 character but when I hear same voice in completely different character it's weird
I have big time processing issues. Like I have to read things twice to really get it and often times I find listening and reading at the same time to be more helpful, so I've never watched subs. I watch dubs with subtitles on so if I miss something audio wise, I can look at the subtitles.
me too!! that's why I dislike the argument that media should only have voiceover of the canon language in the series, bc it also comes down to an accessibility thing and not just preference.
im so much better at listening. Maybe due to my adhd which makes it hard for me to read while focusing on the animation and what they are saying
Where are you finding dubs with subtitles??? The only ones I find don't match the dub since it's usually written for the original japanese dub.
I've noticed a lot less elitism around Japanese vs English VO in anime styled video games than with anime. Not to say there aren't people who prefer exclusively Japanese or English VO in those games, but I think it's less common in my experience. I think that's because there's an extra degree of awkwardness in trying to adapt dialogue from another language, when you also have to match the rhythm and timing, not just of mouth flaps, but of the character's movement and mannerisms. Whereas in video games, the character models aren't typically moving as dynamically, so the localization team are free to script things in a more natural way.
3d in Games is loved but the moment there an episode counter its worthless whole China is making bank with 3d series like ringing fate just came out an rules
This is mostly true. However, it does come up in the video game Rain Code. During the animated segments with the 3D models, the mouth flaps don't match. It is clear that the 3D models were done to much the Japanese script.
Framing it as elitism is fairly dishonest. Japanese voice acting is simply better for the very simple reason of it being a well supported industry in japan while in America its mostly done by 2 companies whose hiring practices pretty much amount to cronyism exclusively.
The Japanese Voice actors go to school for this stuff and tons of teens in Japan aspire to be Voice actors in the future so their selection is huge.
The japanese script and voice direction is also way closer to the original authors vision compared to the dub that has to get translated, "localized", interpreted by the Voice Director and then communicated to the Voice actors.
English dubs for video games and anime are also mostly an afterthought and get paid accordingly which is why nobody competent stays with it long and instead moves on to titles that are regarded as more prestigious in America.
@@luminous3558 that's bullshit it's like saying French is superior in all ways because of broad assumptions an old news questionable data
There should be tbh because JRPGS often get the most crappy low budget translations / dubbing I have ever heard. People don't take the game's seriously because of how goofy the English voices are. There are only a few rare exceptions.
Im not a native english speaker so most of my childhood was watching media in the original language and i still find that the correct way; if im watching an american movie, ill watch it in english. If its a russian movie, its in russian etc
This. I think this is the best way to experience media because it feels more natural in it's original language. If I watch a dubbed movie from English to my language it feels lifeless and unnatural, so I watch English media in English and anime with subs, until I learn Japanese :)
Yeah same. I'm a native Spanish speaker, but a lot of English cartoons that dub to Spanish always sounded better to me in their original language so eventually I started watching shows in English with subs and thats hiw I learned English growing up. Same thing happened with anime but that time with English and Japanese.
And while I prefer sub over dub I don't really hate dub at all, yeah I can't really go back to dub when it comes to the shows I watched subbed, but I absolutely loved Space Dandy from start to finish and watched that day 1 when it was released in the west first and I didn't mind the dub. Games on the other hand (unless they're based on a preexisting anime) I play my jrpgs in English
This. Any other version than original is a wrong version. Only original acting directed and carefully crafted by original creators matters. Dub is like a cheap bootleg copy desperately trying to imitate original and always failing miserably.
@@RascalPL dubs also naturally loses something in translation that's just the nature of it, especially languages quirk whether it's accent or dialect and I think it's a shame. I wish there was a way for videos to have a lexicon that's something manga in france had when some foreign concept were introduced in some mangas like GTO
I don't care where it was made. I like watching things in it's original language/the language they intended to use. Like DMC is japanese, but the main VAs are english speaking.
I think reason Why Dubs usually sound much different than Subs is usually due to cultural differences in both the way they speak and the characters that are written which is why Dubs used to have many mistranslations like in the Ocean Dub of Dragon Ball where Goku's father was labeled as a brilliant scientist
Thankfully modern dubs have refined themselves. And the past are just cringy memories.
@@a.s.raiyan2003-4 and nowadays they just censor shit and change meaning for no reason still not to the level of older ones but still
I love playing dubbed games and watching dubbed movies in my original language, one of the advantages is that, for example, I can play a Batman game, watch a cartoon and watch the movie and Batman always sounds the same, I was protected from Tom Hardy's voice as Bane in The Dark Knight Rises, and unless it's comedy, where jokes can't really be translated, dubbed is just better, because the voice actors are competent.
That being said, some anime is insufferable to watch dubbed, even if the voice actors are the same from movies and games, the script is simply bad, anime people don't talk and act like normal people.
Dubs are getting better but it still not consistently good.
I'm fine with voicing done by Disney or DreamWorks on animated movies. They got the budget/time to pull in talent. With anime dub it is only occasionally good.
With subs it consistently good and very rare to hear bad voicing.
It's not just the translations, it's the voices themselves. Because while you're using the Ocean Dub as an example of a poor dub, it's actually got amazing voice acting from Brian Drummond, Peter Kelamis, etc.
My hot take is I prefer fan subtitles to pro subtitles.
Fan Subs will try to translate as close to the original dialogue and if they struggle with certain words, puns, jokes, or local sayings they put footnotes in the corner to explain context. I learned so much about Japanese language from that.
but I mainly listen to dubs because I multi task, so I try to watch once with the original when I have the time to focus
My favorite thing is when official subs also have notes on them, because they know it's impossible to translate.
It was transcendent to watch Kimi no Na Wa in a theater and see "I was... (female pronoun) I mean I... (male pronoun)" on screen. Its a single short exchange, but the conversation literally does not work without that context.
This is absolutely true, fandub is just so much better. So much more effort and attention is put into not only the dialog characters are saying, but translating any words on screen as well. Official dubs are still tied to using the "closed caption" system which is so much inferior.
I like multitasking as well, but sometimes the dubs are just so fucking stupid that I can't listen to the dub. I'm watching Cautious Hero, and in one of the early episodes when Seiya is fighting greater demon Chaos Machina Ristarte says some dumb ass shit that totally broke the immersion and setting for me....I literally stopped what I was doing, looked it up and found out it was (as I suspected) Jamie Marchi. I immediately swapped to the subbed version.
How is that a hot take you wanna be? Are you not seeing all the drama in the translation (localisation) industry?
So do you prefer watching anime from the 2000s and maybe early 2010s? Because after that point, pretty much everything is straight rips of official subs, or maybe edited versions of them. And some of those edited versions made the subs even more liberal and localized than the pro subtitles were.
I think Steve Blum is a prime example of how to voice act for an anime dub. The guy is able to cover a wide range of voices and emotions. Also the quality of the dub hinges on the localization writing, take away too much of the source writing and the show looses its identity, use too much and cultural notes and idioms fall flat and some jokes make no sense.
Crispin Freeman too
Kaiji Tang too he excelled in anime and jrpg voice acting
Watching Jojo dubbed in english gave me a newfound appreciation of the series as a whole. The absurdity of the series is already well understood, “Bizarre” in the title and all, but I had missed in the sub that EVERYONE talks strange. It’s also hilarious! Especially when it’s in english and there’s no language barrier obfuscating the wacky phrasing and word choice. It’s a blast.
The subtitles should do the exact same job if you think about it, considering it should be equally strange to read than to hear.
@@qiang2884 I don't know, dude. You ever see the season 1 dub? That season's pretty weak as it is, and subtitles leave it kinda played straight. The English voice acting though is suuuuper hammy and definitely adds something that's missing from a vocal performance you'd otherwise not understand.
but the jojo dub script is terrible, its like a parody.
@@Confield yeah that's what I'm saying. I mean, I read the manga and it's a pretty derpy read, anyway. It's not like the characters are saying anything with deep subtext or anything. And let's be real here - the plot is about a guy getting an ancient mask that turns him into a vampire. As far as I'm concerned, a dialogue that lends into how hammy that is only adds to the experience.
@@Confieldbut not on purpose most of the time
might be a hot take but the chainsaw man dub has potential to be top 5 greatest anime dubs of all time due to how realistic the characters sound, and they dont speak like traditional dubbed characters would.
I still can't get over how the dub took out Power's Chop. They had one job, and they replaced it with something dumb
Aki's voice is a miss. He is quite young so his voice should not be so deep. He sounds his age in the sub
@@user-nd3ks4mi7bI like how english did his voice. Aki is a heavy smoker and his voice not sounding his age in the dub reflects that more than the sub
@rapterminator3225 I know 19 year Olds with a deeper voice than his who never smoked, so I wasn't put off by it.
@@rapterminator3225 this right here lol, and i know hella teens that sound like grown ass dudes
“I fight for my friends” took me out. Great video
I've thought about this stuff exactly and you fully fleshed it out and made it hilarious
Nasu I believe you have gotten your philosophers mixed up, it was actually Socrates' student Playdoe who advocated for acceptance of dubs. Socrates was the one who traveled to Japan and convinced them that hardcore porn is actually totally fine as long as you blur out a very close outline of whatever you censor, and that tentacles weren't dicks so actually hentai is both an artistic and narrative form of the highest virtue.
Aristotle is actually the one who would say it doesn't matter how you translate it as long as you get the point across. And probably the dick thing too.
Different cultures have different tropes and methods of conveying emotion via voices in media. As anime fans we've subconsciously built a whole new library of characterisations that are typical to Japanese voices in anime, but as soon as they bleed into English it strikes us as weird because it just doesn't fit our English understanding of voice characterisation which has been cultivated from the day we started to learn English. Many people don't realise this because the skill of reading a voice is such a subconscious skill that most people only understand that it is a "feeling" of "wrongness".
Japanese studios themselves would never understand this without feedback from international fans or a more language-diverse staff. To native Japanese people, the Japanese-leaning English voice direction might even sound okay. This is probably why English dubs have historically sucked and only picked up more as anime has gone more international.
generally, yes. but many shitposters and vtubers have shown that some anime shit can be done well in english. but it has to be done right
Like one commenter said, "anime is japanese but it is not japan". Japanese cinema is one of the most celebrated around the world, even in the west. They do have that kabuki/theater influence but teenagers melodramatically screaming cheesy lines is something you'll never come across, among many other tropes.
@@canti7951 it's funny that you say Japanese cinema is world famous when as far as I can tell it hasn't been for like...60 years. All the known Japanese classes are old movies. Godzilla and samurai movies. In modern times it's anime people know
@@MALICEM12 I'd differentiate "celebrated" from "world famous". I'm just saying you'll rarely see a movie buff who doesn't love Ozu, Kurosawa, Mizoguchi. It is true that japanese media has been saturated and greatly influenced by anime and its tropes but it's not that hard to step away from it. Even a lot of anime can be not "anime-like" while still keeping some tropes enough to be distinctly anime. Some aren't like "anime" at all yet they're distinctly japanese (themes, style, sensibilities). And even if you watch any modern japanese (usually indie) movie, it's widely different from anime.
they also gotten better with it over time. the voice actors got better expressing the quarks of of Japanese voice actors with out being too weird. female Japanese voices actors would voice some characters with very cute voice. the early dubs like late 1980s and 1990s they just start out and just did care about what Japanese voice actors did and not that skilled. With some jrpgs they take advantage of different English accents. for example xenoblade chronicles 3 use Austrian accent for one characters. Then for xenoblade chronicles 2 use Scottish accent for one of the characters. of course Nintendo being internationally company can understand the English market better.
The Berserk dub is very good for the reasons you mentioned. It takes place in a western setting and is for the most part a very down to earth story so the dialogue doesn't come of as cringe. The voice actors are also amazing. Sure, there aren't a lot of them so most background characters end up having the same voice (although all of them being voiced by the same guy as Goku is hilarious).
Griffith and Guts are especially great, which is important for the many dialogue heavy scenes they share
I heard the guts theme as I read this in the rain.
Griffith is fantastic in the dub
Also helps that most everyone is an adult, with dialogue that matches that maturity. Same with Bebop and Fullmetal.
7:40 You've nailed it, which is why my favorite anime are either ones that avoid this (Cowboy Bebop) or lean into it as their humor style (Isekai Ojisan)
18:00 this is actually done in some anime, or similar stuff:
Great Pretender has people speaking in different languages constantly. They even do a clever thing in the sub vs dub, where in the sub the language is stated to be english even though the characters are speaking japanese. Then they use english with a british accent when they want the characters to be speaking another language. But in the dub, since everyone's already speaking english, they use french instead.
Mushoku Tensei also has several entire episodes where the VAs speak using only a made up languages.
So yeah. Some companies are going above and beyond to sell that immersion, and its awesome!
IIRC Great Pretender also starts with the Japanese audio at first, then switches to English later into the first episode.
Great Pretender is the only anime that I switched dub to sub or sub to dub constantly. For the most part I watched it on Dub but on the last arc , it set on Japan so I switched to Sub.
i watched great pretender in dub and loved all of it, loved especially that some characters had accents. underrated dub fs
When you were talking about Sekiro, I thought about the game Ghost of Tsushima.
The game is set in Japan, but it was done by a western studio and the dialogue was done in English first. But as a compromise, the voice actors use Japanese accents.
I think if you’re going to set your show or game in a foreign country, yet don’t know the language or just not enough time to learn it. Just make all the characters speak in an accent that cements where they’re from (respectfully)
Also, none of the characters in Hades use a Greek dialect. Which is funny to me.
@@Mister_DommThat functions as an exception becuase of how stylised literally everything in that game is
@@breadg1818 yea
@@breadg1818good thought
this is also the thought i've had. tho it's especially fuckin weird when a historical drama set in like france or greece has mfers walking around with british accents.
Wow! This is the first time I've subbed to a channel after 1 video. The video is very well crafted, well-researched, and funny! You had a lot of great points that I think many more people need to understand!
I just watch dubbed, because I am completely blind in one eye, and mostly blind in the other, so I read slow. So I just prefer to watch and be able to understand them, rather then read text and pause every 5 seconds. And after watching many in Dubbed, can confirm yes, many dubs just have god awful VA's some times, or things characters some times say just don't make sense in context.
Translation teams can make creative choices that I sometimes find even more fun than the original. Now there’s a lot of bad creative decisions 😂 but those are the cases you watch sub instead.
Yeah sometimes even the subs have casting issues too though like so many young teen boys or children sound obviously like a woman is very immersion breaking lmao. Dubs have this problem too but I'm just a bit more surprised when the sub fucks up.
@@user-lh7mt7zo7l i mean that's not a problem imo, adult males tend to not be as good at doing higher pitches or sounding younger in general so a woman is just less headache, in france gohan, young goku and goten are all voiced by the same woman Brigitte Lecordier and it sounds perfectly fine altho she makes a very good job at making them sound like young boys rather than a woman imitating a young boy but still
@@Gensolink My problem isn't with women voicing young boys my problem is when they are obviously women instead of sounding like a young boy like they're supposed to. Bart Simpson is a great western example of a woman sounding convincingly like a boy and there are good examples of women voicing young boys in anime well but I'm just saying it's really noticable when they just straight up sound like a regular woman or a deeper voiced woman rather than a young boy.
Like when it comes to profanity or burst of emotions lots of dubs really do go the extra mile to convey the pain in a way that's so familiar.
Gotta love the Ghost Stories dub
My first language is Russian and I grew up watching american and japanese media with very different russian dub qualities. A lot of unpopular movies and animes can be voiced by one single person, recording from their room. It is actually pretty normal. Old american movies also do not always have professional russian dubs, so you would have to watch it with crappy dubs. Most of them are made by 1-2 people. Your mind actually gets used to it. Subs are also rarely an option. This is why I always thought north americans are kinda spoiled when it comes to dub discussions. I actually think a lot of them do a great job, but people still complain lol. Try watching a show voiced by one guy, its not that great lol
Американцы: Боже, какая же это ужасная озвучка!! Кто вообще подбирал актёров дубляжа!? Я не собираюсь смотреть это шоу в нашем дубляже >:(
Русские: Киборг Убийца
@@vovasvetlov7357 от куража бамбея у них бы был инфаркт 😂
Анкорд это база
@@vovasvetlov7357 wait what is cyborg killer? what does that mean
Reminds me of Bangladesh, where I live. I recently found out that there are bangla dubs for some American or Chinese movies and it seems that many of the dubs share the same VAs.
Favorite video so far. Really good writting. Keep it up.
That's such an interesting way to look at it! Nice video!
18:05 I think the Tekken franchise does this perfectly with every character with their own unique backgrounds and languages, being able to speak to other characters in their own languages and still understand one another. Admittedly it's goofy sometimes, but it really helps each character stand out and emphasizes the multiculturalism and the character's culture of the series.
King just standing there roaring at people and everyone just nods along.
@@weirdofia205
Jaguar is a proper language. Say yes to linguistic diversity among lifeforms on Earth < 3
My favorite instance of English Dubbing being funnier than the Japanese Dub is in Yakuza 7 during a substory were Ichiban encounters a guy who's trying to get to the station and Ichiban says "Oh shit, it's English" and the irony is that Ichiban turns his head towards the camera and acknowledging how he can understand him but doesn't in order to play along with the substory
Yakuza fans are fucking everywhere fr since I started playing (only Yakuza 7 it's the only one that can run on my pc 🥲) I see a Yakuza reference everywhere!
But since we're talking about Yakuza 7 dub i want to say the dub is awesome
@@aikotitilai3820 Yakuza 7 is probably the most demanding game in the series so I fail to understand how that's the only one you can run on your PC
@@jettsett9354 wait is it ? I thought it would be the easiest to run on my pc (no gaming PC) since it's a turn-based game so if my pc is too slow I won't get harshly punished in game.
But if it's the most demanding game in the series it means the previous brawler entries won't be hard to play on my laptop. Gotta play those then asap
I think it's funnier in Japanese because the Tutor NPC's broken Engrish is hilariously bad, but seems godlike from the perspective of the non-English speaking Ichiban. Also, Ichiban's failed attempt at saying the only English phrase he knows. "DONTO WARI!" Combined with how confident and brash the Tutor guy NPC is, his over the top advice is hilarious. It really sells the value of acquiring supplementary educational certifications at Ounabara Vocational School.
I honestly dropped Yakuza 7 because the hours long dungeon crawls and 20 minute cut scenes... just couldn't take it anymore
I was interested in how different animes would sound in german (my native tongue), so I rewatched some of them and compared the german dubbed versions with the english ones and the original japanese ones as well and I noticed something really important: fluctuating authenticity. Because most anime characters/shows are lip-synced to japanese, japanese originals tend to sound a bit more authentic than western dubs, especially over-the-top scripts. Imho this has two reasons: First, I don't think western voice actors aren't skilled, it's probably because most of them don't speak japanese and/or haven't seen the shows they're working on in the original dub. Thus, they tend to not have as good of a grip on how emotions in the character's voices should come across. Second and probably more important, the original japanese scripts themselves often contain over-exaggerated expressions and words that might only work in japanese and aren't really translatable 1 to 1 into english, german and other western languages. Thus, the translators have to work around stuff which will always lead to a decline in the quality and meaning of words or whole sentences, one way or another. This can ultimately lead to some animes sounding really plain and dumb in english or german while sounding way more fitting in japanese.
tl/dr: don't blame the voice actors for it, blame the ones that mess up the translations :D
4:28 I'll never not love how Zero's voice dips into a lower register there, so fkn great.
An important thing to note about Japanese is that it has different forms of the language for different situations, and the history behind why anime speech is the way it is goes back very far to their theatrical traditions. This makes talking in that form in real life rather jarring to a listener, but it's also kinda the same as if and english speaker was quoting a movie or talking like batman irl.
To be fair, theatrical way of speaking is weird even if you compare it to movies.
A lot of theatre actors who try acting in film usually come off as overacting, since in theatres you are expected to play in front of a large audience, where you have to exxaggerate to be heard and seen by everyone.
Oh yeah it is definitely a thing with English as well. I hated the way Geralt sounded like in the English dub of the Witcher III so much that I switched to Polish, lol
That's not just a japanese theater thing - it's a theater thing as whole because when we didn't have microphones, actors had to make sure everyone, even those who sit far away, are able to understand the situations with their tone and mannerisms
@@ptlemon1101 And Japanese VAs have to act when animations are incomplete.
They supplement their overacting with the lack of visual informations.
I will point out that it's not like all anime characters speak the same way. There are anime that are scripted more realistically, and their is anime where characters talk very silly. Anime is a very diverse medium with lots of different kinds of stories who speak in different stories. The way characters speak depends on tone, setting, subject matter, age of characters, and other factors.
People trying to argue that Genshin is only good with the "Original" Japanese will never not be hilarious to me.
genshin's japanese dubbing also was done with more direction and fittingness as it wasn't something done after the fact but concurrently and deliberately by the designers. The japanese creator team have no input over english dubbing for anime.
@@snow86241 but it's not the original audio, stupid.
Japanese VAs are good and professional artists. American VAs are some greasy weeb and a crazy fujo picked up on the street outside the studio.
As they say, "You haven't experienced Shakespeare until you've heard him in the original Klingon."
I love the emphasize on the ''original'' because the game is literally chinese not japanese, but even so, some people still think that it was made from a JP company or sum 😭
I agree that Anime is also often overacted and that the cringe is less noticeable because it's not our native language. However English is not my native language either. I live in a small European country that doesn't even have the resources to dub stuff so I might be bias, but I think watching the original language is always the superior experience experience.
As a native english speaker, I agree. The original intent is the most important way to experience a story, and if that means subtitles, then that's what it means.
i mean... you wrote this comment in english. can you write it in japanese by yourself? I think the point can be combated only if you have very similar lvls of proficiency in both languages
@@valentinghita1264 I don't agree with that, I always found sub to be superior even before learning English (I learned English mainly due to anime and games), English dub always felt cringe to me unlike sub, yet I had no problem watching American animated movies and American movies in general.
idk. When watching in Japanese, I usually enjoy it less, as I'm constantly just looking at the bottom of my screen/TV instead of looking at the actual show.
i fucking
LOVED this video man
you fuckin earned my sub you were SPITTIN
Another thing a lot of people don't realize regarding dubs (or any sort of translation and localization, really), is that translation doesn't work by looking at individual words, translating them, and then cobbling together a sentence out of those. Translators read the source material, *understand what it says* (this is the important part), and then write that down in the language they are translating to.
This is especially true with languages that are very different like English and Japanese (languages that are closer to each other probably have to make fewer sacrifices). Subtitles arguably have *a bit* more leeway but still have to make plenty of their own substitutions and 'best fit' choices to make it understandable and sound or read naturally in the target language, and fit the timing enough that they can actually be read before the next subtitle pops up. Plus the struggle of translating things that are very specific to the original language, like idioms, culturally specific tropes, wordplay, (or specific honorific terms in languages like Japanese or Korean) you HAVE to make substitutions, otherwise the dialogue will just make no sense in the localisation.
@@SpaceCase1701 More often, explanation blurbs of the wit/pun are more helpful than substitutions, but you also don't want to overdo either strategy.
Rub a dub dub thanks for the grub.
@@SpaceCase1701The amount of subs I've seen where the sub team wanted to be "as true to the translation as they could" that end up just being a constant mess of translators notes filling the screen is just...yikes.
I'm from Germany and I love most German dubs. They're well made and usually not super over the top, they have the same "cringe" level as normal anime and I can deal with it. German K-ON! was the best thing I've watched, I even prefer it over the JP original because everyone sounds like a normal highschool girl. But I really have to say, and I don't dislike EN dubs in general; EN dubs usually tend to... overact? Genshin Impact for example. Many characters there sound like they are just reading a script. It feels like sometimes EN VAs aren't voicing the character, just reading the text without context. They either sound sterile and over the top perfect like someone talking into a microphone (English Lumine...), and therefore very unnatural with their perfect English, or they do this super high pitched loli thing that isn't even that crazy in the original. Other language dubs are usually more calm, most of the time English is way more over the top overacting. That's my personal little problem with EN Dubs, but the voice actors are still doing their best and sounds pretty cool overall.
As someone who has been studying Japanese for ~5-6 years and heard alot of normal Japanese people speak Japanese,
I think it's less about the barrier of understanding the language providing a wall of unfamiliarity between you and the weirdness
but more that since these character archetypes and scripts were mostly created by Japanese people living in a Japanese society
So, yes Japanese people don't talk like anime characters and alot of the archetypes and tropes are weird, but art imitates life and the life that the art is imitating is Japan. It's weird in Japan, but it's gonna be even weirder in English because English speaking countries are not Japan.
(I don't hate on either side I just mostly do Japanese dubs because I like learning the language)
I think it's more just down to the voice acting scene, lack of actors, and lack of education in this particular field. Japan has colleges for voice acting, while voice acting in English speaking countries is a pretty new industry. Especially in anime dubbing.
A good example of why dub's are cringe (because I just disagree with the video) is 'Classroom of the Elite' since I was just watching it a few days ago. The Japanese VA has an extremely distinct and intentionally 'boring' way of speaking because the entire point is he's trying to blend into the background and not stand out. But in the English dub he just sounds like every other male highschool protagonist who's 'cool'. No hate to the voice actor, he was just the wrong person for the role.
And 'Love is War' is often brought up as a good example of an English dub which is wild to me because, while I understand that it's a good English dub, Aoi Koga is a phenomenal Japanese VA who rightfully won awards for her performance as Kaguya. The female performances were just far more distinct in Japanese than in the English dub. I thought they all kind of sounded the same in English and often mistook who was speaking. In sub, it's very clear and the way they speak conveys a lot about their character. (Chika's an airhead, Hayasaka is a professional maid, Kaguya has a kind of snobbish/educated way of speaking normally. Despite not speaking the language, you can clearly hear it in how they voice act.)
I'm always confused how English dubs get praised because, it's not like English animation and games don't exist. There are plenty of examples of strong English voice acting. It's just that those roles are better filled. Take Velma from Scooby Doo. From her voice alone you can hear she's quite nerdy/intelligent. That's not really how anyone speaks in English either. But the way she speaks is relevant to her character... If it was an anime with an English dub, she'd speak the exact same was as any other anime girl, and that's kind of my problem. In English dubs, the voice rarely provides context for the character. The only real exceptions I can think of is Steve Blum's performance in Cowboy Bebop, Deathnote's Light and L's voice acting, and Michal Tatum and Ashley Burch in Steins Gate.
If you can't listen to the audio in isolation and not understand anything about the character, it's not a good performance. And I have a feeling more effort is spent trying to replicate the kind of 'high pitched/cutesy' way of speaking in Japanese, but in English. Instead of trying to represent the character in how they speak.
@@pagatryx5451 you make some good points. I'm not all that knowledgeable on voice acting either but I can see that perspective
@@pagatryx5451 damn that actually makes a lot of sense bro
no its not also just because you've studied jap and hear people speak jap doesn't mean you're right either about the barrier of understanding. It has more to do with social awareness and actually talking to people in the real world. Anime scripts are just garbage and the VAs are overhyped
@@yeahright3901 He is still more qualified than you to be making a judgement. And how do you know he has not talked to real people?
"Anime scripts are just garbage"
The fact that good sounding anime dubs exist, even for kiddy shows like pokemon or dbz, proves that this is not the case. Its all a matter of localisation. Plus most manga don't come off as cringe. Its all about the way the dialogue is delivered / localised, and if the dialogue has been altered enough to sound natural in a different medium / language.
Some of these dub voice actors sound unnatural and talk in a way that you don't really see in real life. Even JRPG dubs like in persona 5 tend to be a bit better.
"The VA's are overhyped"
No point in commenting on japanese VA's since you don't understand the language. I can judge the english VA's, though
THANK YOU for bringing up Genshin bc it's something I've been thinking about for a while so I'm glad to have my thoughts validated
Bruh i only seen two videos but you funny asl. Cracking me up fr had to subscribe
Nasu I swear, you are legit one of the best UA-camrs out there and this video is proof of that, you portrayed your points perfectly allowing people who may not agree with you to at the very least see your perspective, as well as adding extra information like soft power. It's actually insane how you're able to provide all this information while still throwing jokes in the mix, brilliant video.
🤝
Now I want a japanese voice actor to dub this video just for shits and giggles.
Another great video Nasu, an amazing start to my weekend ! ❤️
I'm so glad I watched this video! you hit the nail on the head. Localization is what turned me off of dubs then I went down the filter rabbit hole of when dub it goes through 3 people, when sub it goes through 2, so I started learning Japanese. I guess I have trust issues that's why i prefer sub
I like the concept of having native languages in fiction not being translated at all times, especially if there's supposed to be multiple languages present in the setting. Like in one of my favorite games, Halo Reach, one of the members of the team has to translate what some of the civilians are saying to the rest of the team, because he's a native of the planet Reach and speaks the language... That language being Hungarian, as in the lore, Reach has a heavy population that descended from Hungary when they left Earth to colonize that planet. Something a lot of scifi future settings neglect. Cultures are stubborn, we'll never unify under a single culture or language, not even if/when we leave our world or even solar system. There will be colonies that are majorly dominated by other cultures and languages, there will still be culture shock and language barriers, that'll never go away, if anything it'll likely grow with entirely new languages and cultures being born given enough time.
Funny enough black lagoon is a FANTASTIC example of an anime thats just way better consume dubbed than subbed. Genuinely one of the best dubs of all time, and the woman who voices revy is THE SAME PERSON WHO VOICES JOHNNY'S TWIN SISTERS IN JOHNNY TEST it's really all about the script and how well the source material itself fits in English or Japanese
So glad someone mentioned the best dubbed anime ever
also was the magic horse show.
Anime with western influences/settings tend to just do better in english dubs, like Panty and Stocking or Blood Blockade Battlefront. For example, characters like Revy or Panty are known for being crude, but I feel like sub doesn't capture that as well since in Japanese, using certain forms of the word "you" is seen as an insult, a non-japanese speaker won't know if the character is using formal or casual dialect, and certain slang just doesn't translate well, so just watching subbed may leave that trait lost in translation. It hits more watching dub and seeing Panty throw out a the most creative string of f-bombs that would give grandma a heart attack.
@@Random98-ij8li that sure is an opinion you're having there, champ.
@@panzershreck8077 I agree, that IS a very apt description of Johnny Test
This is why I always say Dubs should be willing to change dialogue a lot more to fit the language it's being spoken in. Yes; the translation team should always try to preserve the same sentiment and concepts as the original script; but harmless things like changing the specific synonym being used, or making a new sentence which flows more smoothly while still communicating the same message should be encouraged.
The issue is that anime dub translations must be the same length as the original lines, and never longer (nor too much shorter). This makes it impossible to optimize translations, which is one reason why English dubs tend to feel more 'cringe' in anime compared to JRPGs (e.g. Trails series, Persona series). And if the Japanese uses words or expressions that simply have no equivalent in English, the translators have no choice but to write new lines from scratch, which is always a hit-or-miss process, especially if the original writing is extremely good already.
The Danganronpa 1&2 games are an excellent example of the latter. The translation was virtually doomed to fail from the start, because the dialogue was perfectly optimized in the original. Asking a translator to produce a translation of equal quality would be like asking a translator to write a best-selling novel from scratch. It was never going to happen.
@@VVayVVard That is a concern; but I think that, once again if you cannot make a line sound good with a faithful translation, or there is no good way to faithfully translate it, then you'll be fine just making a new line with the same general meaning.
For example: In German there is the word: Erbsenzähler: meaning "Someone who is obsessed with details and a bit of a control freak." If you're translating a scene where someone gets called that, "Sie sind ein Erbsenzähler!" but obviously don't have the lip-flaps to write "You are obsessed with details and a control freak!" you could just change the line to "You're too Obsessive!" This doesn't carry over 100% of the original meaning but it conveys the gist of what the original script in a way which sounds normal when spoken in English.
even within the sub anime, this is an issue. back in the day of fansubs and TL notes, there was a struggle with being able to read and understand the lengthy subtitles as the jp lines were being delivered. it messes with the pacing
it's kind of a balancing act between contextualization and conciseness
@@cursedryona6265 It's hit-or-miss. There are some words that sound powerful in Japanese that are simply impossible to translate to English in a way that doesn't dilute the effect, either in terms of meaning or in terms of sound.
Example: 弱者 (jakusha) in Japanese. It means "weak person", and it can be used in various contexts and with various connotations. The interesting part of this word is that, while it implies weakness, the sound of the word is very strong (both the ja and the ksha) in contrast to the usual word for weakness, 弱い (yowai) which only uses soft consonants. In English, the most direct translation would be 'weakling', which not only is incompatible with an intellectual tone (since the word itself has a juvenile tone to it) but it also sounds weak in terms of articulation (the k being almost silent being the primary problem) making it very difficult to apply to lines where powerful articulation is desirable.
This example in particular has long been very vexing to me, as a translator, because it has no good alternatives in English, so you're forced to choose which aspect of the word you are willing to give up. If it's used as a simple insult, you could go with something like 'insect', but if a character uses it in a meaning-specific fashion, you're probably going to have to go with 'weakling' or 'the weak', the former being suboptimal in terms of articulation, the latter being hard to work with from a grammatical point of view.
This is true in general as well. A line that sounds extremely beautiful or funny or badass in Japanese will rarely be as impactful in English, and vice versa (cool or funny lines in English tend to be painfully hard to translate to Japanese). Losses in translation are inevitable. And because you're operating under the restrictions imposed by the source material, there are always going to be cases where writing a new line from scratch won't be enough to fix the problem.
@@cursedryona6265 You could also translate that as "You're so autistic", which is rich coming from a German.
13:53 I fucking died here 💀
The best dub in my opinion is JoJo's Bizzare Adventure. The first two parts are wonderfully done that, while never exactly "literal translations", still feel all the same. The lines are slightly different, but say the same thing as the original source. And everyone has an accent that makes it very believable. One of my favourite scenes is the Ogre Street ambush, it is filled with various lines that reference the area being a London slum. Sure, it has the typical "characters explaining what they're doing" but it feels a lot more "real".
From parts 3 on, it became a very generic "dubbed anime". Even in Stardust Crusaders, which features a Brit, an Egyptian, a Frenchman, and two Japanese highschool students, the only ones they gave a regional accent is the goddamn dog and DIO himself. Going forward, everything feels very generic. Golden Wind fixed this a bit by sprinkling in Italian words, but it still felt like Americans saying the lines. Giorno didn't feel like an Italian teenager, he felt like an American man. Stone Ocean was the best of the post part-3 era because it was actually set in America, so all the Americans felt natural.
Basically, I wish they cast Numbuh One as Joseph Joestar in part 3 like they did in part 2.
And even DIO has the posh accent dialed too far back. Like, you can hear the difference between Dio Part 1 and DIO part 3. Which was a shame as it is a good voice for Dio as a character.
But you pretty much nailed it on the head. It would have been cool to hear the characters have far more natural accents as well as getting more representation and voice acting opportunities. As much as I love Matt Mercer, his Jotaro just sounds like a less western McCree/Cassidy. Plus, it would make each character stand (heh) more out from each other that you could recognize them by voice rather than "Oh, that's what Mista says".
they got some good ones in there like Jotaro and kakyoin but then you get somebody like old joseph and you start to sense something "OHHHH MYYYY GOOOODDDDDD", it adds to the humor more though.
Title perfectly captures anime 😂
But dub is cringe though...
@@donaldf9055 so is the sub just it is less cringe because you can't understand what they are saying
@@donaldf9055if I can’t understand what the fuck their saying why would I watch it lmao 😂
@@jeffjhon4928 thats what subtitles are for lol. i agree that anime is cringe tho
@@theninjabird9510 no, you're just a braindead tourist.
I usually watch subtitles, because when dialogue is cringe, it at least hits me less when I hear it in language I don't understand. And I just like the passion and over-the-top deliveries of Japanese VAs.
My threshold for cringe is so low I can't even handle the more tropey Japanese voice acting... all the baby talk for girls makes me want to claw my face off by now. I straight up don't watch certain genres because the cringe of core anime tropes is too strong within them XD
Man i was one of thoes Weeabos papa franku described in his video
I used watch this crap all day
i went so insane i started learning Japanese and dreaming of living there
then i turned like 16
man i look back and cringe at myself so much man
on discord i used to use the Japanese Keyboard to type in fuking Japanese
with my fukin friends who didnt even know the langauge man
Anime really does something to a MF
My hate for anything Japan and Anime stems from my past Anime obsession
@@self-proclaimedanimatormy hate from japan comes from its history and from people simping over its fucking awful history which the government refuses to acknowledge or educate about
I just don't like anything dubbed. My native language is spanish and I find it impossible to watch american movies in it
Yeah same here. I think I can just embrace the camp a lot better when it's delivered with total commitment. There are still some pretty good dubs though.
the bit at 13:00 made me subscribe. this vid was articulate AND funny, i will def be watching more!!
This was such a good fricking video essay, good God
Black Lagoon S1 E7 "Calm Down, Two Men" The Argument between Rock and Revi is GOD TIER in ENG DUB the performances of each are FREAKING GREAT.
I find it interesting that anime styled games tend to have better dubbing too. Persona, fire emblem, and ff7 remake all have solid dubs imo. It probably helps that they don't have to time the translated dialogue to the original Japanese because of still portraits, or the ability to more easily redo lipsyncing in 3d
Video game companies have a LOT more money to hire ADR writers and actors than anime ever did or will
For the longest time jrpg dubs were absolute crap, they've only been getting better recently
Devil may cry, MGRR are good dubbing as well
@@NN-cc8uo Devil May Cry is weird as an example because the series didn't get a Japanese dub until the anime. It wasn't until DMC4 Special Edition that there was Japanese dubbing in the games. It's a strange infinite mirror on itself with DMC5 where it was written in Japanese, translated into English for the original voice cast who are English Speakers, lip synced to them, then the JP Dub uses the original Japanese script, with English Lip Sync... it's head hurty.
"ff7 remake"
Y O U O W E M E A P I Z Z A
Great video man
The thing you said at the later part reminds me of breaking bad when Walter's romanian boss spoke romanian and I look thru all the dubs all except turkish spoke romanian
In the end, for me the most important thing is Adaptation.
When you take something from one country to another, it's inevitable that a certain level of localization of the source material will be required, as things like puns, references, figures of speech and country-specific terms wouldn't work just by translating everything. That's a difficult line to cross, because if you change it too much you end up completely distancing yourself from the original, but leave too much intact and you alienate the viewer who won't understand half of the references and terms.
This I agree with.
The Hetalia Franchise is a wonderful example of what Nasu was saying. Because the series is made up of characters from many different countries the English cast uses the accents, phonetics, and slang used in and relating to that specific culture due to the widespread use of English throughout the world; and since many places already have their own dialects/varieties of the language they can be referenced and replicated with time and practice. But sadly the same cannot be said as much about the Japanese language as it isn't in much use outside its own peninsula's borders. Meaning watching the series in the original Japanese isn't as immersive comparatively for those outside Japan. But that doesn't mean the story is bad or the dialogue is any less weird either way. BTW the franchise is mostly 5 minute episodes spread throughout it's several sequel anime and a couple 1.5 hour movies. It's a historical parody about the world's nations with each character being a version of it's stereotypes personified. Mostly being about the Axis powers(Japan, Germany, and Italy) during WW2 but also lots of other nations and time periods and gives funny facts about their history, cultures, and politics. 9/10
that and the fact that the dub had better jokes. watching Hetalia subbed is a stale experience, at best.
@@greyghost2492 Comedic anime/scenes are generally better dubbed.
Well to an english speaker it might be (which is fair since that is who the video is targeted at), but for me that might actually make Hetaia worse. A lot of the accents that aren't from big countries, like Uk, Germany, Japan, US does not sound like the actual accent which can be even more immersion breaking thatn them just speaking with the same accent as it becomes an element that you start to think about. I notice this in a lot of media where they try to do an accent to make it more realistic, but it's like they didn't look it up and just went "eh, probably close enough".
These edits are on point
The Great Pretender does an amazing job at having diverse language in the first couple episodes and then making it clear that the show is going to switch to English for the rest of the season. I kind of wish they kept that but it was probably for the best
With regards to the multiple languages thing, imo Mushoku Tensei handled it really well.
Though obviously characters speak Japanese most of the time, there are MULTIPLE entire fictional languages spoken in crucial scenes (like in the latest episode), sometimes alongside Japanese to differentiate between languages/worlds. They have their own consistent rules for writing and pronunciation, and have even been translated by fans. It makes some important scenes insanely immersive
Yeah that anime is actually competent even if I don't like some things about the writing it doesn't infuriate me and reek cringe like some isekais do
so the 40yo grooming 3 little girls and wifing them up and having kids with them is less cringe than other isekais? FBI @@aiiiia9971
Sub being better absolutely isn't something inherent, it's a product of the resources JP puts into its voice acting. There are shows out there where I genuinely prefer the dub - Sarazanmai comes to mind. That dub isn't even perfect, there are some weird/awkward moment, but when a dub actually tries there's no reason it can't punch in the same weight class as the japanese VAs.
Damn, my sentiments exactly and something I've never been able to articulate nearly as well. Most anime I watch with my girlfriend is dubbed unless I think the acting is actually truly bad, very rare, then we either swap or don't watch it. Funny you brought up Maid Sama as that's one we both started and just couldn't gel with the main cast and immediately flipped over to subs and it's one of her absolute favorites.
On my own, the decision always weighs heavy on me now that almost everything is dubbed simultaneously or super soon after. Would it make more sense to watch it in japanese? Do I know a lot of the english VA's and enjoy them? Are there a lot of high pitched female characters that usually don't translate to english? Do people online generally think the dub is fantastic or maybe subpar? Haruhi is one of my favorite anime but watching it dubbed with my girlfriend made me a little down on. I don't think she was voiced well, but Wendee Lee coming from some roles like Faye Valentine is ABSOLUTELY capable of amazing roles, but the fake high voice didn't work for me and she sounded more bratty and annoying. But maybe she ALWAYS sounded like that but I'm not that in tune with japanese so I just don't hear it. And for many years, there was no choice at all and I just downloaded the fansubs and watched it cause that's all we had; not just to be current with something long running, but to watch some things at all that either took forever to come over or never did.
All this to say that, it's a whole damn spectrum of good to bad for dubs and subs and as long as someone isn't at one extreme end or the other, I'll probably agree with them somewhat. This videos too good to not check out your other stuff.
I liked how they did mushoku tensei.
The characters only speak fake languages in there. The main, most spoken language is voiced in japanese, but the rest are made up and you can hear the difference. I think that's a good option.
That's why I love games like Punch-Out Wii where there's characters from several different countries speaking several different languages. They didn't get one or two people attempting to dub everything in a single language, they got voice actors for each person speaking in their mother tongues. It works great because it makes sense and feels natural to each of the characters.
Tekken as well
I've always viewed dubs as another option. I think it's great to have more options. I watch some anime subbed and some anime dubbed depending on which cast I prefer.
14:21 Which is a stupid ass defense cause subtitles r a form of translation as well, ur losing the original dialogue regardless. Then those same people be part of the 90% of reactors I see play genshin exclusively in English
I ran into this when I was showing my wife Fate.Zero. I loved the anime in Subs, she wanted to watch in Dubs. We made it maybe one episode before we were both done.
I loved your line about how having a language you don't understand, works somewhat as a barrier to realize the campiness.
I think another thing that gets under-discussed in sub vs. dub debates is the idea of dubs as an accessibility feature. I remember several years ago I met a girl who was completely blind, and also completely obsessed with Naruto, which she had watched in the English dub. A lot of people with vision or reading disabilities watch things in dub because reading subtitles is sometimes just not an option, and it would be pretty dumb to insist that they all just become fluent in Japanese. There's no point in making fun of people who watch things the only way that they can.
no one has or will ever argue against a blind person watching in dub so this point is irrelevant
@@CaptainMizuki tf they even watching?
@@thecreativeducky5781 fr
more than that, it makes it possible to watch without it being your sole focus. You can multitask which makes it much easier to watch (react to and discuss) with friends or while working on something else which is more amenable with the little free time we have and how spread out over the world our friends are. You can watch it while tired, drunk, turned to the side, far from the screen. And without the distraction of required subtitles you can focus on the visuals when they are important.
Imagine being so mentally impaired that you can't read text fast. Are you going one letter per second or something? That's crayons eater tier.
Here in Brazil we have a long history of Dubbing with varying levels of success, with the majority being very good, and much of that comes from a combination of great voice actors and good adaptation of the source material, with classics like Naruto, Bleach and Pokemon being anime that I will always opt for the dubbed version.
Nada como um Sáske bravo gritando "NARUTOOO SEU IDIOTA" enquanto eles lutam contra inimigos mortais. O jeito elevado de experienciar Naruto 👌
Sadly nowadays they tend to "Yusukerise" the dubs, making every single character say some completely out of place slang because "Yu-Yu Hakusho and One Punch Man did it and everyone loves it". Why does it sound like every dub is placed in Rio de Janeiro lol
Bro I thought I was getting roasted until I found out you share my correct opinion 100% except even better than me cause you watch stuff in intentional language 100% of the time while I just do it when it feels right which is like 80% of the time.
I watch them dubbed because the Japanese voices of younger characters make me want to jump off a building. At least the English dubs just make me want to rip my ears off. But then there are only about 5 anime series I can actually stand watching. Anyway, Cowboy Bebop is the best dub. Always said that the only reason people think the Japanese voice acting is better is because they don't know how bad it is.
I never understood exactly what people had problems with, but the idea that anime sounding unnatural and cringey is a great explanation. I always knew what to expect from anime because I grew up on it. Overexaggerated weirdness. So the idea that Japanese provided a language barrier helped others, but for me, it made the those cringe moments far more noticeable.
I to grew up with dub anime and treated like any other cartoon before gaining access to the internet. So for me, if I turn on a corny cartoon, I am prepared for it.
Truth be told, I enjoy both Dub and Sub. Generally I go for Dub, but sometimes I just prefer the Sub version. I learned, a lot of times, it's whatever I was exposed to first. The answer is more nuanced.
Those One Piece and Fairy Tail customized fansubs was peak anime enjoyment even though I much prefer the English casts for both series. I wished they kept those subs exclusively for the attacks. I can't even find them these days.
I think there's also something that doesnt translate and it's the cultural aspect of a language you know "Eeeehh ?" "SUGOI" and all those interejections and those overreaction are very japanese some of them you could 100% hear in a conversation, but it doesnt work that well in other language imo because our reactions tend to be more subdue in the west
Same! I generally watch dub but sometimes it doesn't work for me so I turn sub. There's also some series like My Hero Academia where I like both versions the same
Although anime is corny enough to make the dubs cringe too, I have a soft spot for dubs and watch them regularly... And my reason might not be relatable to everyone, but the reason I do it gives me a sense of nostalgia? Like we all watched Dragon ball Z and Pokemon in dub back then. So when I watch a dub for another anime, it takes me back somehow. Even if it's corny, I still love dubs for this reason.
I hope I'm not alone lol.
sometimes a corny dub line might ruin it for me but i do respect the opinion
Your not alone. I also watch anime dubbed. It’s just easier for me. I also grew up watching Dragon Ball Z and can’t imagine it in any other language. No disrespect to the Japanese voice actors though.
Yo that sponsor transition was actually pretty clever and smooth.
The over the top style of anime can, in some ways, be compared to traditional theater. Nobody IRL does soliloquies like characters do in Shakespeare plays, but in the context of theater, we know this is a necessity and it can have appeal to some people. And, in the golden age of theater and opera (17th-18th century), there were also completely unrealistic behaviors from the characters, but that were considered normal tropes when it came to fiction. Media end up creating their own style and conventions that just differ from reality. It always happen.
Being over the top is pretty much one of those conventions that anime adopted. But because western cinema didn't really (or at least, not in the same way), we don't have the "cultural habits" to find that kind of style natural in our own languages.
...But I wonder, if, given enough time. It will happen. Manga and anime are dominating right now and the new wave of artists is increasingly influenced by their style. So maybe in 2050, western content will also have those epic screams of very banal lines like "I fight for my friends!" too.
Those are great though and they’re usually not soliloquy’s but actually internal monologues and those are ones that people have irl
As a non native English speaker Finding content I want to watch dubbed isn't always guaranteed. This made me grow up appreciating works in their native language with subtitles, like this was the closest to the original experience the creators wanted to convey. So I find it funny how English speakers have the hardest time accepting content in another language with subs
same. the video made me kind of mad because i thought this was referring to every person, but, after reading your comment, i realize its meant for native english speakers more than anything
This isn't completely true, English isn't the only language in which anime has ever been dubbed to. Great examples are the load of animes that were dubbed for tv during the 90's and early 00's in Spanish and other languages that were extraordinary.
And I don't understand what's the "funny" part, it's logical to find people who complain about content not in their language.
@@Sijilos thats not what they meant. its not that other languages dont get dubs. the thing is, the language that complains the most by a landslide about things not being in their language or having to read subtitles is english
@@Gaogull bro, the point that I was making is that other languages have also demanded the content to be in their own tongue, and even some of those with great results.
I burst out laughing at Genshin Impact. It was not my first Chinese gacha game (Chinese people really got those down), so I just played it in English. I really don't get why so many people played the game in Japanese pretending it was the original.
Because the Chinese developers would rather market to anime lovers than the Chinese because Chinese people consider it a BOTW clone & nothing more.
@@ExtremeWreck Inazuma's release was the downfall of the game and its community because its when all the weirdass weebs discovered the game.
@@takemi_914 All because Inazuma sounded like a Japanese place.
@@ExtremeWreck God I miss pre-Inazuma genshin
@@ExtremeWreck inazuma is japanese for lightning 稲妻. so its the lightning nation. but fr yeah
I think unironically 4kids dubbing is better then alot of dubs because how they treat anime as another cartoon then anime. I'll also argue some slight changes are handy when used well
I listen to a lot of opera in German, Italian, and French. I cannot understand a single sentence in these languages. Like you said, my lack of comprehension severs as a buffer between my brain and the work and allows me to appreciate the melodies and the cadences of the speech. I do listen to a few works in English, but the experience is completely different.
Also, I'm glad you pointed out Cowboy Bebop which is the ORIGINAL good dub. It was ten more years before the average dub became as consistent and few have exceeded its quality.
Speaking of foreign languages, Assassin's Creed actually does a very very very good job when it comes to how they use language in their games! Even when the characters are speaking in English they go above and beyond to make them feel like they're Greek, or Egyptian, or Italian, or Arabic. The Arabic dub for the newest Assassin's Creed game actually features lots of additional lines and bits that would make sense to an Arabic speaking player. Their secret is using accents to give the feeling like the character is speaking a foreign language but still being linguistically understood by the player. Accents can go a long way in making a foreign character still feel foreign, so long as the accent isn't racist or just bad.
Lmao reminds me of that one time where French have British accents in Unity
What a terrible example almost everyone in assassins creed has the same dog shit accent with absolutely terrible voice acting
no, its fucking dumb, why would italians have an accent while talking their language, its not that they are really talking english to one another, so it just doesnt make any sense. But what to expect from somebody who plays all AC titles lmao biggest piece of trash games
I follow you up until... wtf is a racist accent????? Does it spit N words between every word? Praises some funny mustache artist? It's mostly European languages that are being mimicked intentionally badly anyway, like Italian, British ect. and I've yet to see even 1 person call that racism.
@@spugelo359Well there are accents that get made fun of that are not from Europe. Indian accent gets made fun of a lot and I remember the Ugandan knuckles meme. I don’t want to judge it as racist but European accents are definitely not the only ones being made fun of
This is why I'm glad that english is my second language. I can understand dubbed stuff but most of the time, as long as the dub is good enough, I won't die of cringe because there's still a barrier between what they are saying and my understanding of how actually cringe is the dialog. And I have noticed the difference a lot when I try watching something dubbed in my main language. Most of the time it just makes me die of cringe. And it's not even because of the quality of the dubs, because the general opinion is that they are pretty good most of the time. Even better than english in a lot of things, mainly old anime dubs for example.
English is my third language and I can't listen to any dub, original voice acting is always better because the voice actors have direction from someone directly involved in the project, while dubbing is either not directly directed, or through a dubbing studio with their own VA director.
TLDR; A good VA director is what makes voice acting good.
@@c00ki3IIIm0n5t3r love how people say this is always better then turn around and go it just depends on who is there
@@senritsujumpsuit6021 They aren't mutually exclusive, it just happens that the people there are always better in the home studio (how surprising).
I think it’s easy for a non Japanese speaker to notice fantastic or exceptional voice acting but I agree with you that I can’t tell if it sucks because I have no relationship to the language
I enjoy both, but I always ask the fans of a new anime I'm about to watch if the dub is any good. I will often watch the first few episodes switching between sub and sub to see which one seems to fit better in my opinion, and majority subs seem to fit, but I prefer watching dub bc of aspect you mentioned about being able to pay attention to what's happening. I've watched Death Note in sub and dub tho, honestly not sure which one I prefer in that sense; both are really good.
i watched a genshin impact scene in chinese once and it made me die (one of my native languages is chinese) i feel like it's genuinely true that my preference is "language I don't know" rather than "original language" lol
Haven't played Genshin myself, but maybe it's possible that it's designed more around its Japanese actors, or they get more budget to work with...? I mean, it's very heavily anime-styled, so it'd make sense if they also put more resources into getting the Japanese voiceover sounding right.
I know Metal Gear is viewed that way- it's very much made by a Japanese studio, which can express itself in pretty funny ways, but it's primarily about Americans, so the first efforts are always put towards the English dialogue. despite being a Japanese studio... In some ways it seems silly, but it also makes sense!
@@hahasamian8010 Chinese language is just not very good on the ears in general.
@@vator53 Neckbeard try not to be racist challenge: impossible
what do you mean by "chinese"? mandarin?
@@Veilure yea? That's how words work lol
Exactly! And there is nothing wrong with enjoying a form of art that has a weird and exaggerated way of conveying emotion. Us Westerners forget that opera was a huge thing in our culture for hundreds of years. It's okay to be cringe.
Opera is like Kabuki,stage acting though.
there is something to be said about the practice of media and art to exaggerate real life in a very deliberate and artistic way.
From Opera and Greek Theatre, to Medieval Mosaics or the large eyes of anime characters.
With the rise of cinema and the move towards depicting more realistic things, some of that artistic exaggeration was lost, although cinema definetly developed new forms of exaggerated speech and behavior that are not truly "real".
Art is usually unrealistic and trying to "enhance" and change things in life, and sometimes it comes off as absurd.
@@alucard347 But anime is visual content.
Just like cinema. So over the top acting gets
usually irritating.
@@user-zg6yt6gy4c there are a lot of ways to be over the top.
Everything in theatre will be considered "over the top" in cinema or real life.
But if you look at cinema and tv, especially things like comedies, you'll quickly see that the way characters act are not very "down to earth", or rather, if you met those characters in real life, you'll probably think they are very odd people.
From the eternal quipping to the emotional bursts, characters on screen, played by human actors, generally tend to play an exaggerated version of what people would actually do in those situations.
@@alucard347 I agree with the necessity of overacting in terms of commedies.
But many Japanese VA act same ways regardless of situations.
11:00 talking about the cafe had me weak asf
I dont care what language you watch your anime in
As long as you enjoy it, watch it.
This video made me realize why some of the best dubs i've heard are seinen or anime set based on foreign culture. They don't focus on maintaining the stereotypical anime image because they have barely any limits on how ugly they can portray their worlds. Black Lagoon and Hellsing are prime examples, I can't imagine watching them in any way other than english although yes i would prefer if every character spoke their native when not speaking to other english speakers, there are descrepancies like in Black Lagoon when they go to japan and the yakuza characters speak in japanese while Rock is translating for Balalaika but then in other scenes the yakuza speak english. Instead of the dub and sub wars we should just have both when it's necessary.
I like Black Lagoon
Yet someone decided that some great VA next to god awful VA was a GREAT IDEA for the English dub
dragon ball is classic
One thing I learned about anime when I was learning Japanese is how weird everyone sounds in anime it’s so hyperbolic most of the time
not really, i guess if you only ever watched my hero academia or those types of battle heavy shounen, most anime, even stuff like fantasy usually have the same pronounciation as cartoons in the west, that is to say, you can just listen to it and improve your speaking and you wont sound like a retard weeb
source: I basically learned how to pronounce Japanese from anime for 6+ years and having lived and worked in Japan for the last 4 years i have not been hit with a single "NiHoNgO JoUzU" in my entire stay here.
@@Random98-ij8li no it doesnt you nimrod. Japanese culture is literally known for being polite. It's quite literally a soft spoken language. Are you dumb
@@g76agi Same pronounciation? Do you know that Japanese have a pitch acccent
that is complete different system with English?
@@user-zg6yt6gy4c i didnt mean same pronounciation as english, obviously.
Also my first language also has pitch accents aswell and you can 100% learn it by watching cartoons in it
in 2022 i watched the chinese movie Moon Man and enjoyed it alot. afterwards i came to a very similar realization that i probably would not have liked the film as much if it was an english-language production but because it was in chinese and from china i was able to latch onto the things that i did like but i was able to just ignore things that didn't really work for me as just things i don't have cultural/language reference to understand the joke.
i have to wonder if i continue to watch chinese media if in another 8-10 years i will also be bored with chinese media like i got bored with anime or if that was more tied to the fact i was a teenager at the time.
Another thing to consider regarding dubbed vs subbed is accessibility
I watch exclusively dubbed anime, but I wish I could watch subbed the majority of the time
The thing holding me back is my autism meaning that I can't really "watch" subbed anime since I'm looking at the subtitles 80% of the time to fully understand what is happening in a scene, as opposed to dubbed where the workload of understanding what's happening can be shared between my ears and eyes