Yo Brad, have you watched Deep Space Nine? There's a character there who was given the name Odo, that in the alien language in question means "nobody". Which I think is kind of Zen :)
Shinran, the (honorary) founder of Jodo Shinshū (a pure land school), was stripped of his monastic status by the Japanese state for being heretical. He married and spent the rest of his life teaching in isolated rural Japan, referring to himself as “neither monk nor layman”
Dude. I knew Gary Burger quite well growing up! Recorded in his studio in Turtle River, MN many times, even played a set at his wedding reception (his 2nd marriage, in the early 2000s). He was a great guy, and missed by many. Man, it must be going on a decade since he passed. I was lucky to know him, especially being the weird and musical teenager I was.
Just a bit of information here, Tibetan, and Japanese sects have created a “lay priest” ordination due to political or cultural reasons. In Tibet the clergy had to go underground due to the political climate of the day. Today in the Vietnamese tradition my master is creating Thien lay priests for a more modern approach to Buddhism, while still upholding a lot of the old traditions.
Yes, I agree with much of this sentiment discussed here, I personally believe you can practice everywhere in everyday life, and that is where you benefit from it the most. Sitting just part of getting ready to face the challenges life has in store for you on that day. My 2nd cousin is a Buddhist monk, I remember my mom showing me him and his wise quotes when I was younger and I thought to myself "what happened to him?" like I saw it intuitively as him taking refuge from a harsh world in peaceful monastic life. I am most definitely a heretic, I am on the side of savages and the indigenous, civilization is a scam.
What are your thoughts about the samadhi of childlike innocence? I think your videos on the Dalai Lama talk a little about that but was just curious. I heard it at a Zen center the other day. Also, I just finished reading part 1 of your Shobogenzo commentary. It's so interesting how there are so many parallels between traditional Judaism and Soto Zen (maybe other Buddhist practices as well) and even in this video you referred to places where there are similarities. I don't want to say stuff that people will fight over here, but if you like comparative religions it might be something you want to check out.
I asked Gudo Roshi once, by his blog or email, if I was a monk. I told him that I had taken the precepts and tried to maintain a regular zazen practice. He said, "You are a monk."
Interesting talk, thanks Brad. I took Jukai at Throssel Buddhist Abbey - the zen monastery established in Northumberland in the U.K. by Reverend master Jiyue, a British woman ordained in Japan into the Soto zen tradition back in the 1960s. She set up Shanta Abbey in the US first. The monks at Throssel in the U.K. have shaved heads and wear brown robes. They have a daily schedule of meditation and work in the kitchen, office or garden. They do rely on guest donations and run a lot of retreat weeks. I have stayed there a few times for just a week at a time and concluded that giving up ‘normal life’ to live in a monastery is not an easy path. Living closely with others day after day is very challenging and as that monastery is in the middle of nowhere there’s no escape and It definitely isn’t an easy peaceful life! I am very grateful to one of the monks from that monastery who visits our local zen group down south. She has dedicated her life to living in the monastery as a monk and has been my wise teacher over the last few years. 🙏🏽
I think I get it now. The teacher-student relationship is like the sponsor-sponsee relationship (in AA). Without some kind of traditional interactivity, it might be a solid zazen (meditation), but it's not exactly traditional Soto Zen Buddhism in the Dogen way. Similarly, you could live a sober life without AA, but it would be weird to do the AA program without establishing a sponsor-sponsee thing.
I'm in a similar mode. I have taken jukai, Shukke Tokudo and Hossen-shiki with my teacher, who has transmission in the Soto Lineage. I live in the world, have a job, but i help run and organise our zen centre. I did my training 'in the world' not in a monastery. I see my role as a "monk" as a facilitator of practice. I help keep our zendo open, the candles lit, the incense fresh and i show people how to sit. I wear my robes when doing zen stuff, but otherwise i wear normal clothes. I prefer the term "priest" to monk. Probably the closest to how i feel. I am not registered or recognised by soto-shu and i have zero interest in. I agree, its about attitude. At the end of the day, its what we do / believe that defines us, not other people's labels. If people don't think im a monk that's fine, you don't have to sit with me, i don't mind. it's all good.
I have a question. Recently, I spoke to a Tendai priest who thought very highly of Dogen, even using the Shobogenzo in some of his talks. But then he said that Dogen never set out to start the a new type of Buddhism in Japan, and considered himself to still be a Tendai monk when he passed away? Do you know if this is true? Thanks Brad.
I have never heard that Dogen considered himself a Tendai monk when he died. He had dharma transmission from Tendo Nyojo, who was of the Soto school of Zen. He didn't think of his teachings a a new form of Buddhism, but as the original and only form of Buddhism. So, in that sense he never set out to start a new type of Buddhism. Although it was new to Japan. His original monk ordination was in the Tendai tradition. Maybe he still considered himself to be a monk in that school. In Dogen's time, the schools of Buddhism were not so clearly distinct. In China, temples would change from one school of Buddhism to another whenever a new master took over, if that master was from a different tradition. So maybe the distinction wasn't very important to him. In his writings, he claims that what he teaches is "just Buddhism" in the sense that it is not a specific sect of Buddhism.
I reckon that it IS possible to attain Enlightenment (or Right View) without a formal teacher by reading the right books or hearing the right dharma talk. But there also, one DOES have a teacher through the books and talks. So, in a way, one still relies on a teacher in one form or another. The Buddha had teachers, but none of them bestowed upon him his final Enlightenment. That he achieved on his own. Not an easy feat for most mortals as the ways of delusion are almost endless. One in a million maybe.
What you say about Catholic monks is pretty much correct - there are "third orders", but members are basically laypeople and their relevance waned after the Council of Trento (which damaged Catholicism severely if you ask me), so. As for the rest, I'm practicing under a master in Taizen Deshimaru's lineage, and she told me to "make the kesa". So I've started working on it (with *a lot* of help) and the idea is me becoming a monk in some years. I'll be wearing ordinary clothes most of the time, I'll still have to work for a living (I might choose to live my final years in a monastery, who knows), I guess I'll be pretty happy (right now the thing makes me slightly anxious though) and I couldn't care less about pointing a finger on the practice and status of fellow practitioners. For what it's worth, I've always seen you as a monk
Kind of. Maybe. It seems to me that a lot of lineages of Zen do something like this. That is, all ppl ordained in that lineage get a dharma name that contains a specific Chinese character.
There is a woman in Australia who created videos on Buddhism until she switched to online paid class content. She lived monastically for three years as a way of intense study, then returned to regular life
And there are some pretty excellent Theravada monks who have been living in monasteries for decades and produce innumerable dharma talks for free, many of them very good more or less no matter your sectarian orientation. I find the concept of pay-to-receive-wisdom extremely repellent and question what the true wisdom is that is even being conveyed. If I ever become a dharma teacher I can’t imagine ever having the balls to think my oh-so-wise teachings are worth charging for. I don’t mean any insult to the dharma itself, but it’s not like the original authors of the sutras or Shakyamuni are getting financial royalties
@@cbysmith because demanding money for teachings shuts out many of the people who most need to hear them while egotistically declaring your own objective value. What Brad does, being dependent on freely given donations but releasing his talks for free, is the time-honored way in most forms of Buddhism. And it might even lead to making more money.
@@cbysmith I am not saying the value is objective. I’m saying charging for dharma teachings is a way the teacher exalts themselves, and for people like me it backfires hugely because it looks like ego
I mean during buddhas time the structure of society was dictated by the kings. Plus during that time living in forest and solitary life was more dangerous and hard not like today where a person wandering forest would be considered a creep or possibly robber. It's all about how one is perceived in the society and how it affects us mentally. During those times it was considered a noble thing to do nowadays you'll be called a freeloader. That's why I think buddha said his dhamma will die within 500 years cause he knew after him the buddhist will become like the brahmins just chant mantras and live like a lay person in the cities.
So with the Soto Shu, the rule is that your "registered" novice ordination is only good for 10 years if you received it over the age of 20. In order for the registration to be permanent, you need to have received dharma transmission afterwards (it doesn't count if you received it before), and typically after you've completed at least one training ango. Dharma transmission must be "overseen" by a "director" of the SotoShu to be considered valid for the organization. Jukai-e doesn't count for registration. And...it all has to happen at registered temples and have all the paperwork filed through headquarters. So...unfortunately, your ordination likely is not registered with the SotoShu today and neither is your dharma transmission. It's all a little silly with the bureaucratic step-climbing. I think what you did is perfectly valid, but it doesn't satisfy the bureaucratic gymnastics that you need to follow to be technically "registered."
My ordination is registered with Soto-shu. I have the paperwork (with my name misspelled!) to prove it. However, as it was more than ten years ago, my registration has probably lapsed. I described it wrong by using the word "jukai." As you probably know, the jukai ceremony and the monk ordination ceremony are pretty much the same. The monk one is more elaborate, but the vows are the same. My dharma transmission was never registered with Soto-shu, nor have I ever claimed it was. Nor, indeed, did I ever want to register it with Soto-shu since they require a LOT of money for that registration, which I consider to be a rip-off that I have no desire to participate in.
@@HardcoreZen oh I believe you. But you’re likely right it has lapsed. It’s all silly. I received Jukai and then novice ordination in 2021 from a fully qualified and registered SotoShu “international missionary”. But it could never be registered because it was done in Canada nowhere near the closest “registered temple”, of which there are only like…7-8 in the US and Canada. In Catholicism there’s a statement that applies to Bishops correctly ordained but done without a mandate from the Pope: “valid but not licit”. I count my ordination in that way and sounds like yours is the same. Regardless, imho you’re a perfectly valid monk and teacher, even if the mothership doesn’t think so ☺️
I don't condemn or judge monks either but interestingly enough in ancient China monks living off of other people and not serving the community in a more direct concrete sense was one aspect of Buddhism that people who practiced Confucianism had a big problem with.In the view of many people who were Confucians in ancient China Buddhist monks were not considered to be much if any better then just common beggars or freeloaders.Many Buddhists back then put alot of importance on monasticism however monasticism was not something which Confucians in general really bother with nor see much if any actual use or merit in it.
Sorry Brad, I was just in the intensive meditation mindset. May be that is wrong too. But I am not here to judge, just trying to figure things out. Your is different kind of Buddhism compared with yuttadhammo Bhikkhu
We're all Bozos on this Bus
Phud's First Law of Opposition - If you push on something hard enough, it will fall over.
@@jonwesick2844 Why does the porridge bird lay his egg in the air?
Clown Car = Lesser Vehicle
Bozo Bus = Greater Vehicle
St Jerry transmitted the truth
Yo Brad, have you watched Deep Space Nine? There's a character there who was given the name Odo, that in the alien language in question means "nobody". Which I think is kind of Zen :)
I forgot about Odo. Thanks!
It means "unknown sample" actually . Even more zen!
@@baruchdespinoza6318 Thanks, I misremembered. I agree, even better!
not a Zen Monk, more a Zen Punk 🙂
Shinran, the (honorary) founder of Jodo Shinshū (a pure land school), was stripped of his monastic status by the Japanese state for being heretical. He married and spent the rest of his life teaching in isolated rural Japan, referring to himself as “neither monk nor layman”
Good idea!
Dear Odo, Can you shape shift like Odo in Deep Space Nine?
Yes!
Dude. I knew Gary Burger quite well growing up! Recorded in his studio in Turtle River, MN many times, even played a set at his wedding reception (his 2nd marriage, in the early 2000s). He was a great guy, and missed by many. Man, it must be going on a decade since he passed. I was lucky to know him, especially being the weird and musical teenager I was.
Just a bit of information here, Tibetan, and Japanese sects have created a “lay priest” ordination due to political or cultural reasons. In Tibet the clergy had to go underground due to the political climate of the day.
Today in the Vietnamese tradition my master is creating Thien lay priests for a more modern approach to Buddhism, while still upholding a lot of the old traditions.
San Francisco Zen Center/Tassajara also does this.
Thank you!
Yes, I agree with much of this sentiment discussed here, I personally believe you can practice everywhere in everyday life, and that is where you benefit from it the most. Sitting just part of getting ready to face the challenges life has in store for you on that day. My 2nd cousin is a Buddhist monk, I remember my mom showing me him and his wise quotes when I was younger and I thought to myself "what happened to him?" like I saw it intuitively as him taking refuge from a harsh world in peaceful monastic life. I am most definitely a heretic, I am on the side of savages and the indigenous, civilization is a scam.
What are your thoughts about the samadhi of childlike innocence? I think your videos on the Dalai Lama talk a little about that but was just curious. I heard it at a Zen center the other day.
Also, I just finished reading part 1 of your Shobogenzo commentary. It's so interesting how there are so many parallels between traditional Judaism and Soto Zen (maybe other Buddhist practices as well) and even in this video you referred to places where there are similarities. I don't want to say stuff that people will fight over here, but if you like comparative religions it might be something you want to check out.
"Am I a monk? I don't know. Maybe." Yup, that's how it is for me. Viva Ziggy!
I asked Gudo Roshi once, by his blog or email, if I was a monk. I told him that I had taken the precepts and tried to maintain a regular zazen practice. He said, "You are a monk."
Oh no! You too??
Koho uchiyama was a true master. Thank him
Interesting talk, thanks Brad. I took Jukai at Throssel Buddhist Abbey - the zen monastery established in Northumberland in the U.K. by Reverend master Jiyue, a British woman ordained in Japan into the Soto zen tradition back in the 1960s. She set up Shanta Abbey in the US first. The monks at Throssel in the U.K. have shaved heads and wear brown robes. They have a daily schedule of meditation and work in the kitchen, office or garden. They do rely on guest donations and run a lot of retreat weeks. I have stayed there a few times for just a week at a time and concluded that giving up ‘normal life’ to live in a monastery is not an easy path. Living closely with others day after day is very challenging and as that monastery is in the middle of nowhere there’s no escape and It definitely isn’t an easy peaceful life! I am very grateful to one of the monks from that monastery who visits our local zen group down south. She has dedicated her life to living in the monastery as a monk and has been my wise teacher over the last few years. 🙏🏽
So, your real budhist name is Odo Roshi 😊
Master brad 🔔🇯🇵🙏
I think I get it now. The teacher-student relationship is like the sponsor-sponsee relationship (in AA). Without some kind of traditional interactivity, it might be a solid zazen (meditation), but it's not exactly traditional Soto Zen Buddhism in the Dogen way. Similarly, you could live a sober life without AA, but it would be weird to do the AA program without establishing a sponsor-sponsee thing.
Interesting comparison.
I'm in a similar mode. I have taken jukai, Shukke Tokudo and Hossen-shiki with my teacher, who has transmission in the Soto Lineage. I live in the world, have a job, but i help run and organise our zen centre. I did my training 'in the world' not in a monastery. I see my role as a "monk" as a facilitator of practice. I help keep our zendo open, the candles lit, the incense fresh and i show people how to sit. I wear my robes when doing zen stuff, but otherwise i wear normal clothes. I prefer the term "priest" to monk. Probably the closest to how i feel. I am not registered or recognised by soto-shu and i have zero interest in. I agree, its about attitude. At the end of the day, its what we do / believe that defines us, not other people's labels. If people don't think im a monk that's fine, you don't have to sit with me, i don't mind. it's all good.
I have a question. Recently, I spoke to a Tendai priest who thought very highly of Dogen, even using the Shobogenzo in some of his talks. But then he said that Dogen never set out to start the a new type of Buddhism in Japan, and considered himself to still be a Tendai monk when he passed away? Do you know if this is true? Thanks Brad.
I have never heard that Dogen considered himself a Tendai monk when he died. He had dharma transmission from Tendo Nyojo, who was of the Soto school of Zen. He didn't think of his teachings a a new form of Buddhism, but as the original and only form of Buddhism. So, in that sense he never set out to start a new type of Buddhism. Although it was new to Japan. His original monk ordination was in the Tendai tradition. Maybe he still considered himself to be a monk in that school. In Dogen's time, the schools of Buddhism were not so clearly distinct. In China, temples would change from one school of Buddhism to another whenever a new master took over, if that master was from a different tradition. So maybe the distinction wasn't very important to him. In his writings, he claims that what he teaches is "just Buddhism" in the sense that it is not a specific sect of Buddhism.
I think we are all monks in a way ...just at different levels of seriousness.
I reckon that it IS possible to attain Enlightenment (or Right View) without a formal teacher by reading the right books or hearing the right dharma talk.
But there also, one DOES have a teacher through the books and talks. So, in a way, one still relies on a teacher in one form or another.
The Buddha had teachers, but none of them bestowed upon him his final Enlightenment.
That he achieved on his own.
Not an easy feat for most mortals as the ways of delusion are almost endless.
One in a million maybe.
🙃Monk? I thought you were a bass player with a rubber monster collection.😉
What you say about Catholic monks is pretty much correct - there are "third orders", but members are basically laypeople and their relevance waned after the Council of Trento (which damaged Catholicism severely if you ask me), so.
As for the rest, I'm practicing under a master in Taizen Deshimaru's lineage, and she told me to "make the kesa". So I've started working on it (with *a lot* of help) and the idea is me becoming a monk in some years. I'll be wearing ordinary clothes most of the time, I'll still have to work for a living (I might choose to live my final years in a monastery, who knows), I guess I'll be pretty happy (right now the thing makes me slightly anxious though) and I couldn't care less about pointing a finger on the practice and status of fellow practitioners. For what it's worth, I've always seen you as a monk
Thank you!
So the "--do" suffix IDs a bit like "--Ananda" ?
Kind of. Maybe. It seems to me that a lot of lineages of Zen do something like this. That is, all ppl ordained in that lineage get a dharma name that contains a specific Chinese character.
in Catholicism, one knows a Roman nun who renounces her status as a nun
Right you are concerning the catholic monk tradition…female nuns even have to marry jesus in a ceremony
Do the consummate the marriage?
@@HardcoreZen Nope…not really. It is just another weird ritual in the catholic tradition🤗Ahhh…people just love rituals…
Is Ziggy a monk?
Didn't Bernie Glassman take clown lessons?
You are a Ziggy owner! I wish I was a Ziggy-owner too.
I took jukai, lol. Im not Buddhist except in precept. It's perfect. Mine is Hodo.
There is a woman in Australia who created videos on Buddhism until she switched to online paid class content. She lived monastically for three years as a way of intense study, then returned to regular life
And there are some pretty excellent Theravada monks who have been living in monasteries for decades and produce innumerable dharma talks for free, many of them very good more or less no matter your sectarian orientation.
I find the concept of pay-to-receive-wisdom extremely repellent and question what the true wisdom is that is even being conveyed. If I ever become a dharma teacher I can’t imagine ever having the balls to think my oh-so-wise teachings are worth charging for. I don’t mean any insult to the dharma itself, but it’s not like the original authors of the sutras or Shakyamuni are getting financial royalties
Who cares? Money is just energy/time exchange.
@@cbysmith because demanding money for teachings shuts out many of the people who most need to hear them while egotistically declaring your own objective value. What Brad does, being dependent on freely given donations but releasing his talks for free, is the time-honored way in most forms of Buddhism. And it might even lead to making more money.
@@michigandersea3485 Value is never objective friend, lol. It's expressed only in exchange, whether that's time for time, or money as a medium. Lol.
@@cbysmith I am not saying the value is objective. I’m saying charging for dharma teachings is a way the teacher exalts themselves, and for people like me it backfires hugely because it looks like ego
Why not both?
I mean during buddhas time the structure of society was dictated by the kings. Plus during that time living in forest and solitary life was more dangerous and hard not like today where a person wandering forest would be considered a creep or possibly robber. It's all about how one is perceived in the society and how it affects us mentally. During those times it was considered a noble thing to do nowadays you'll be called a freeloader. That's why I think buddha said his dhamma will die within 500 years cause he knew after him the buddhist will become like the brahmins just chant mantras and live like a lay person in the cities.
So with the Soto Shu, the rule is that your "registered" novice ordination is only good for 10 years if you received it over the age of 20. In order for the registration to be permanent, you need to have received dharma transmission afterwards (it doesn't count if you received it before), and typically after you've completed at least one training ango. Dharma transmission must be "overseen" by a "director" of the SotoShu to be considered valid for the organization. Jukai-e doesn't count for registration. And...it all has to happen at registered temples and have all the paperwork filed through headquarters. So...unfortunately, your ordination likely is not registered with the SotoShu today and neither is your dharma transmission. It's all a little silly with the bureaucratic step-climbing. I think what you did is perfectly valid, but it doesn't satisfy the bureaucratic gymnastics that you need to follow to be technically "registered."
My ordination is registered with Soto-shu. I have the paperwork (with my name misspelled!) to prove it. However, as it was more than ten years ago, my registration has probably lapsed. I described it wrong by using the word "jukai." As you probably know, the jukai ceremony and the monk ordination ceremony are pretty much the same. The monk one is more elaborate, but the vows are the same. My dharma transmission was never registered with Soto-shu, nor have I ever claimed it was. Nor, indeed, did I ever want to register it with Soto-shu since they require a LOT of money for that registration, which I consider to be a rip-off that I have no desire to participate in.
@@HardcoreZen oh I believe you. But you’re likely right it has lapsed. It’s all silly. I received Jukai and then novice ordination in 2021 from a fully qualified and registered SotoShu “international missionary”. But it could never be registered because it was done in Canada nowhere near the closest “registered temple”, of which there are only like…7-8 in the US and Canada. In Catholicism there’s a statement that applies to Bishops correctly ordained but done without a mandate from the Pope: “valid but not licit”. I count my ordination in that way and sounds like yours is the same. Regardless, imho you’re a perfectly valid monk and teacher, even if the mothership doesn’t think so ☺️
Zen Bonzo?
what's the difference
Lol. I miss you
They are too tall for their hair
Why? Why would you ask even? Wtf
I don't condemn or judge monks either but interestingly enough in ancient China monks living off of other people and not serving the community in a more direct concrete sense was one aspect of Buddhism that people who practiced Confucianism had a big problem with.In the view of many people who were Confucians in ancient China Buddhist monks were not considered to be much if any better then just common beggars or freeloaders.Many Buddhists back then put alot of importance on monasticism however monasticism was not something which Confucians in general really bother with nor see much if any actual use or merit in it.
Yeah. That's where the tradition of monasteries being self-sustaining (with their own farms and stuff) began.
Of course you are not a monk, you are a Zen whatever! You barely meditate. 2 hrs a day is not enough to know about absolute reality. You do you!
How much meditation per day is enough to know absolute reality?
Sorry Brad, I was just in the intensive meditation mindset. May be that is wrong too. But I am not here to judge, just trying to figure things out. Your is different kind of Buddhism compared with yuttadhammo Bhikkhu