Reaction Video: Eric Valentine’s Studio Build - AcousticsInsider.com
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2023
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Tube traps. VPRs. Helmholtz resonators. Membrane traps.
There are a lot of options when it comes to controlling the low end in your studio.
But we hardly ever see them pitted against each other.
That’s because the effort involved is HUGE.
And so much can go wrong.
But someone who didn’t shy away from the challenge is Eric Valentine.
In his most recent UA-cam videos he went to extreme lengths to show us what he tried, tested, through overboard and actually ended up using to treat his new studio.
And you know what that means?
It’s time for another reaction video!
Related blog post on Acoustics Insider:
www.acousticsinsider.com/blog...
Resources in this video:
MRwEV Episode 26 The End of the Acoustic Rainbow! • MRwEV Episode 26 The E...
MAKING RECORDS with ERIC VALENTINE: / @mrwev
Acoustics Insider on Social Media:
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Here is the money quote in this video @44:26 - jesco: "The time response is arguably even more important than the frequency response, because the frequency response is just a result of getting the time response right. Obviously, in real life, everything just happens in time, the frequency domain doesn't exist in reality. The frequency response is the direct consequence of fixing the time response."
I think this point bears repeating, because for most people, it is NOT obvious that frequency response is a fabrication that exists only between our ears. What actually occurs in resonant and notch bands is the summation of room reflection paths that just happen to converge with degrees of in-phase or out-of-phase alignment. It is the relative time delay between these reflection paths that determines the phase alignment at each particular frequency band. Our ears evolved to work as far more sensitive phase discriminators than as spectrum analyzers or VU meters. What we refer to as an "acoustically flat frequency response" is in practice the normalization of wide-band phase discrimination.
"in real life, everything just happens in time, the frequency domain doesn't exist in reality. The frequency response is the direct consequence of fixing the time response."" I can concur that!
It’s a clever understanding that most lack…but at the end of the day is there an action item based on this knowledge? Probably not.
@@seanb3303 Virtuosity tends to be when somebody can do the same task faster ....in a shorter period of time....
@@bluematrix5001 How would the frequency response measurement be the slow inefficient way?
I'm a big fan of Eric, so it was great to see you offer your insight into his acoustics journey. I learned some things from your thoughts of how he went about treating his control room.
Actually a very good reaction video - and very cool what Eric did with his studio, and that he let us having a glimpse about his efforts. Its quiete a daunting task to be acomplished with trying out different methods, materials etc.
Thanks again Jesco. Some valuable info and confirmations in your video.
Eric is the best - a genuine enthusiast and a serious audio nerd, and a real pleasure to talk to if you get the chance as I did at AES this year. His passion and his commitment show both in the records he makes and the equipment Undertone make. I love my Unfairchild and will never part with it. And if a room full of ugly tube traps makes mixing and recording better then good for him!
I don't know... I could do with more 'voodoo' in this channel. I am obsessed with Eric Valentine and adore the guy man crush style. Having said that, it seems like he has made major mistakes with this build and lost unbelievable amounts of money and time. It's great that he is happy and reached a place that works for him. It's also amazing he has given us this incredible resource of his build and his mistakes. He wanted this journey and good on him. It's all anecdotal though and particular to his experience and room though. I expect for example that his room might only sounds great in his small listening position. What if he wanted to put in dolby atmos speakers or give clients a great listening position as well? What if it was in a different room? I expect it might not work. We are guessing! Eric is a genius but not an acoustician. I think this is a case where we need acoustic hard science.I know for example that a very well known acoustician on youtube thinks Eric's approach was a disaster, despite him arriving at where he needed to be.
The dog in the end was like: No way, I can't stand this anymore! Leave me alone! XD
Thank you for the video! =)
The magic of the tube trap is in the air gap in the middle.
Most people treating a room forget that airgaps between rockwool make a much bigger improvement then completely filling the thing up with no airgaps. I
f you think about it, when a soundwave hits a tube trap, it passes 4 times against the rockwool insulation. Front side of the trap, airgap, back side of the trap, hits the wall, comes back and repeats.
Super interesting! I wish Eric would have shown the phase response and not just the freq response. In my experience, when I corrected my phase response, it made a MASSIVE difference in my ability to pinpoint where different elements are located in the sonic field.
Mixing has become a very visual experience now :)
long time fan of eric! such a lovely, talented and giving human being - hard to find these days. i´m in the process of moving into a new studio space so acoustics are a big subject for me right now. really appreciated his video therefore. but quickly realized that these large diameter tubes arent available here in germany or even in europe. so i was also wondering why he deemed them so effective. seems to me that the material is denser/tighter than the regular rockwool/fiberglass panels. and then also the fact that there is a front layer and a back layer with some air in between. would love to know if thats correct. or if fully filled absorbers are more efficient than ones with an air gap inside. i remember in other areas an air gap is beneficial.
Helmholtz-Absorbers are fantastic if you have one low frequency that's just going crazy once things get loud. But yeah, you gotta stand there with earplugs and tune the thing. For mixing I'd go for porous absorption but for loud low instruments (brass, live bass guitar, some drums), a Helmholtz will do the job. Also great for home cinemas with a one-note-subwoofer, you'll still hear and feel the note but no more rumbling dishes..
Cool video, I've been watching the EV videos for a while now & i find this cylindrical bass broad band absorption to fascinating. He did a really good job of proving their effectiveness with REW. In previous vidro quite a while back he proved that they way more effective than flat panels & by a considerable margin. I'm new to this cylindrical trap idea & am interested if you can expand on them vs the flat panel in terms of effectiveness. I'm really curious about this point. Thanks for the awesome content you provide!!
Jesco, could tube traps be more effective than standard rectangular porous absorbers because of its larger surface area? The surface area of an 8 foot cylinder is much greater than the surface area of an 8 foot rectangular box. But maybe I’m missing something. I would love to get your opinion on this. Thanks for the great videos!
Full cylinder surface is pi * d * h. Full square prism surface is 4 * d * h. 4 is greater than pi. But if you place them close to each other, then yes, the cylinder turns out to be larger
awesome
Have you seen his last room update video? Very interesting
I've also experianced far better results wtih tube traps, mine have a diffusor on the surface and inner resonant tubes, which seem to give a multiple result, but also being able to hang them away from the wall, or corner place perhaps improves performance?
Can sbi cause subsequent peaks further up the frequency range?
When he pointed to the corners at 42:25, I literally laughed, because he pointed to the corners in my room where resonators had the most effect!
I had the opportunity to try lab tested, commercial resonators, which worked well but didn't solve the problem in my room. Damn, what a frustrating experience that was.
what is its measurement program? no room eq wizzard but the comparative program
J, Acoustic Insider community...
What type to headphones is Jes using? Much appreciated.
aren't these famous alibaba phillips?..
Eric is honest😊
But did he compare with and without dog bed?!
Would be cool to know your thoughts on acoustic fields technology with their carbon panels and proprietary foam
That guy I dont trust... no really serious business wise
@@bluematrix5001 well it's not the person that you have to trust but the information he's putting out. It makes sense to me but I'm no expert
@@djhmax09 You'll be amazed at all the crap out there in the acoustic world. I prefer to see a guy like Eric revealing his process and his findings in a documented and real experience... and the interesting thing is that there are no strict rules in acoustics, don't think that everything is written in stone... We need to try things, methods , materials and understanding tools like REW..... then you can see and read anyone to get information and knowledge... but in acoustics especially, each room can be a totally different journey and experience...
@@bluematrix5001 I'm sure there's a lot of nonsense. But he also runs this as a business, I don't think he wants to take time and effort to explain the intricacies of how everything works over the effort it takes to run his own business. The reality is most of his clients aren't interested in understanding the data because they just want the finished product to achieve results, at least that's how I see it. Anyway I still think his tech is interesting and would love to try it someday and hear for myself
@@bluematrix5001I totally agree. 😎
What do you think of John Brandt?
This years videos with Ron Sauro are pretty damn good! Also the todays video about testing basstraps: They lab test those, so it's not anymore on how things should work in theory, but how they work for real.
Why would he decide his sitting position to be in the "collision of two resonances"? Wouldn't it be better to move, instead of fighting against it?
Interesting... I had a similar thought
The tubes barely put a dent in that room.
THIS IS WHAT I CALL FAIR USE! Damn great video. I just have one question maybe someone can point me to a video discussing this. Why does looking at the Impulse response give us more precise info about the reverb time rather than the RT60/decay measurements?
die armen strauss monitore mit eingedrückter Membran. Ich persönlich finde die Rollen / Tubes optisch absolut unattraktiv wenn man sich damit die Wand zustellt. Als themenvorschlag, könntest du mal ein video machen inwiefern die Decken / Wand Akustik Produkte von Herstellern wie zB Ecophon für Heimanwender interessant sind
I had similar experience with Tube Traps and actually, it is well known that Tube Traps perform better than standard flat panels of the same depth; in fact, ASC with Tube Trap and wall attack have been known to give excellent results. and Eric tried those panels and had a wall with fiberglass and then he tested and measured and realized that tube traps are much better and have more bandwidth than panels...it's just acousticians don't want to promote its use because if you are smart, know some acoustics, have a good ear and know how to use REW, you don't need an acoustic and even though tube traps are much easier and faster to build than a wood panel with fiberglass or wool mineral....interestingly just recently GIK is selling tube traps and I think are their most expensive products...must be a reason...
Trouble with them is the eat up space, in my small garden mixing room there is no way I could have used them and ended up with anything practical to work in, plus they look dreadful, like a carpet shop storeroom! 😬
@@kadiummusic that is the negative of Tube Traps...but if you can afford to eat up some space...are great
The reality is with enough research and effort you can learn any skill and avoid hiring people right? But you've only got 24 hours a day to get it all done
@@ezrashanti both ways of doing it are fine, depends on your free time and priorities :)
Where are jescos measurements?
Deep enough is what ? 21” deep panels ?
WHY jesco stil trying to sell the idea that tube traps are the same as porous panels, they are not, and they are not filled with porous material....
Eric’s tube traps was porous absorbers. He uses pipe isolation. Pipe isolation is just mineral wool or foam to put around a pipe. It’s clear if you watch Eric’s video.
@@badmongleoit’s very very very compressed fiberglass tho, Is the stuff used in regular panels and traps the same? My pipe insulation tube traps are like hard they’re so compressed.
Iam not shure check out Erics videos he talkes about it. My guess is that the properties of the isolation doesn't differ that much from mineral wool to make that much of a differens. Tube traps did work for Eric but my guess is that if he back filled all the area covered with tube with mineral wool he would probably get the same effect and a cleaner look and probably cheaper.
The graphs do not say anything if you do not know how it is measured. sometimes only one speaker is measured, sometimes two. Speakers interfere with themselves.
Big budget amateur build :) That room is huge! Hard not to make it sound good.
My overriding feeling is that his end result (if not the journey!) is fairly typical for a successful acoustic treatment but the tubes look terrible! I may be wrong but surely he could have achieved the same results with the correct choice of panels and the asthetic of the room would be so much better. Maybe he's someone who doesn't care what it looks like but for me walking into what looks like a carpet shop storeroom would drive me nuts and definitely wouldnt inspire me to be creative! 🫣
Yeah Eric is known not to care about aesthetics. His first studio was called HOS (Hunk of Shit).
that is the big question, yes tube traps are deeper but empty and super easy to make.... so the big question is that if at the same mass volume of the tube traps equals in absorption and broadband results as the same mass volume of porous panels?? clearly the Tubetraps are way easier to make and cheaper too
Eric’s case would probably be easier to fill the entire wall with a thick layer of mineral/glasfiber wool held in place by one big panel then cover it up with fabric. Cheep good looking. This is the way most pros do it. Glad wool is dirt cheep and framing also.
I may be wrong, but I think in either this video or maybe the one following this called “The End Of The End Of The Rainbow” he talks about once he’s got everything tweaked, putting fabric walls around everything.