We Hatched Double The Hens to Roos!
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- Three months ago we tried experimenting with three factors while setting a clutch of eggs to increase the amount of hens hatched in a flock. We've read that round eggs are likely hens, and also that hens are less sensitive to colder incubation temperatures. First, we sorted our hatching eggs by size and only set the most round eggs for incubation. They were stored at 40 degrees F for 8 hours before incubating. Last, a temperature half a degree F lower was maintained for the duration of a hatch. This video shows all 16 healthy chicks that hatched. Our variables proved to work, and we ended up with more than double the hens to roos! Watch the video to see how they feathered out as pullets and cockerels.
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This was incredible. So detailed. I am so glad you did this and documented it so well for us to learn from. I had to see the babies not make it as well. It’s the hard part of farming.
Thank you so much! I'm also glad that I was able to test the variables and have success boosting the hatch rate of hens, but I wasn't expecting so many rooster chicks to make it so far along in incubation. That was really the hardest part was seeing the rooster chicks suffering and dying as full grown chicks. I felt incredibly guilty to unintentionally give them such an existence. My theory was that they would have been terminated in the first few days. Live and learn!
I love the way you meticulously put this together
Thank you so much 😊
I know you've decided not to repeat the experiment and I agree with that choice. However, for the sake of encouraging scientific integrity, I have to point out that a better designed test *would have tried just one of these variables per batch of eggs* at a time and ideally alongside a control batch. Combining all three variables into a single test run just produced a confused data set. We didn't learn if any one or two variables was legitimate nor if any one or more was the cause of the higher failure rate.
Anyone else out there might consider trying just the egg roundness by itself and see what happens. Then, as long as they are willing to risk the negative impact of suffering chick loss and defective hatches, the chill period evaluated by itself followed by the incubator temperature setting. I suspect the idea of egg roundness is entirely reliant on expertise with specific breed traits and would be seriously complicated with random crosses and crosses of crosses and so on.
Thanks for sharing this series.
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I appreciate the constructive feedback and respect your insight. Indeed, this "experiment" is loose since it doesn't isolate variables nor does it repeat. I'm a science lover, and so I wanted to make this video educational. However, the reality is that every single egg I set is a variable, or at least it is on our hobby farm. Our coop is unheated and the eggs are collected just once a day, later in the day, and therefore the temperature in which the eggs sat varies even just on the day they are laid, depending on the weather. Also, since we were getting about 10 eggs a day at the time this video was made, I needed to gather eggs for hatching for a total of 3 weeks, which is not ideal. Ideally eggs should be set within 1 week of being laid. Apologies if you know all of this, which I'm guessing you do from your informed reply.
I agree that it would be neat to see each variable tested independently. In the future I may conduct another experimental clutch of only round eggs and incubating them as usual with the recommended settings. However, personally I don't believe the whole 'round eggs are hens' theory since it's already been disproven in so many published studies that can easily be found online. It is funny to me how many people swear by this despite having no actual evidence of it working successfully. I based the lowered temperature variation on several studies I came across online. Some referenced 'domesticated chickens' specifically, while others referenced 'birds'. I thought introducing the variables related to temperature would make for a more exciting experiment-like-experience for this video. Science won in the end in more than one way, though. The varying temp unsurprisingly, negatively impacted this clutch's hatch rate. That's clear as day when comparing it to my numerous other hatches I perform throughout the year. This clutch had one of the worst hatch rates from one of my best performing incubators. Also, the higher number of chicks hatching with deformities (such as straddle leg) is likely from the temp variation as well. My large hatches of over 30 eggs typically produce one or two deformed chicks, but to have four or more just in this one clutch is a lot more than usual, and I blame that on the temp variation. And, indeed, I ended up with a higher percent of hens to roosters for this clutch. My clutches are typically close to 50/50 hens to roosters, and so this clutch's ratio of hens *might* have been boosted by the temperature changes, or it could have just been dumb luck, as the expression goes. Without repeats and isolating the variables, who knows? ...not me, as I don't have the heart to repeat this. Ah, but I digress, this was a lot of fun and I'm so happy to see so many people interested in the topic. Thanks so much for checking out the video and offering feedback!
@@SayWhyChickenThigh Funny what you mentioned about the beliefs regarding egg roundness. I was reminded of all the diverse cultural beliefs about pregnant moms' belly shape and size etc as a means of predicting the baby gender. People will swear by their superstitions based on three or four alleged second hand testimonials that confirm whichever theory.
In the end it's likely some matter of correlation not causation to offspring gender. Extrapolating such things to a generic mixed population (of poultry or humans) is very tricky. People can see that there is a variable playing out but the value as a surefire method of choosing an A or B result is ...let's say fractional at best.
Thanks for replying and best wishes on the flock.
❤ so sorry you experienced the chicks having the health difficulties. Hard to know if that was from a half degree difference in temp or if it was genetics?? Have you seen info that would cause you to lean toward one or the other? Thanks for sharing that difficult part. 😢.
Thanks for your caring words. Based on several other hatches and comparing the variables in this incubation with a typical incubation, I conclude that the embryos that terminated likely were affected by the temperature variation. It is hard to rule out genetic issues but typically in a normal incubation I have a hatch rate of 95% or better, and the chicks that hatch rarely have spraggle leg. This hatch had a low hatch rate and also several chicks with spraggle leg already at the time of hatch. The temp is likely the major cause. I'm glad to have learned so much during this experiment but out of the respect of life I won't repeat it in the future.
@@SayWhyChickenThigh ❤️🐥❤️
I have gone by the round eggs under the hen and had all hatch as hens. When mine are about a week old I look for the little tail feathers. I call that the skirt. Seems that the first to get the skirt are hens. It may be different in other breeds. Mine are mostly mixed barnyard with a few Easter eggers and Astralorp thrown in. And resulting crosses.
That is awesome!
By the way, I saw a Border Collie in there! Coolest dogs ever!
😎
If they already have a gender before their born how could the temp effect gender?
Changing the temperature is done in an effort to eliminate all or mostly roosters during incubation so that mostly or only hen chicks hatch. Edited to specify that mixed gender eggs are set in the incubator but only the female eggs make it to hatch day, therefore eliminating the unwanted males.
What do you attribute the death rate, deformities, and other negative issues caused by this experiment? Was it refrigerating the eggs, lowering the temp during incubation, or?
I love your questions! This experiment can be more accurately called an experience, since there's too many variables to really pinpoint the exact answer to your questions. However, fluctuation in temperature, in my personal experience, seems to be what causes some clutches to have a longer hatch time, which then seems to cause a higher number of chicks developing or hatching with the spraggle leg deformity. My best guess is that the lowered temperature of .5 degree Fahrenheit throughout the hatch caused some chicks to have a difficult time hatching and caused spraggle leg. Storing the eggs at 40 degrees Fahrenheit for 8 hours didn't seem to have much of an impact. Many of the eggs set for this clutch had been over 1 week old, and so it's not very surprising that so many of them didn't even start to develop or stopped developing early. I also expected a low hatch rate of about 50%. What surprised me was how many eggs developed all the way to the final days of incubation and then never hatched. I opened up all of the eggs that failed to hatch after day 28 and the chicks inside looked like they should have been able to hatch, but I'm not a vet and so it's my personal observation that they looked like fully formed chicks with no obvious deformities. I wonder, was it an equipment issue on one of the final days? Had there been a power outage for several hours that caused a dip in temperature? I'm not sure why so many chicks *nearly* made it to hatch. Those questions on my mind are why I'm not going to repeat this experimental experience of trying to boost the ratio of hens by lowering temperatures. Even if one of those variables had helped give this clutch more than double the hens to roos, it was hard to deal with the losses. But, maybe I'll try setting two clutches of all round eggs to see if that old tale of egg shape holds some truth...
I’m curious as to what you do with chicks that are deformed but don’t die.
How I react to the chicks that hatch deformed really depends on the severity of the deformity. Luckily, chicks' legs and feet are very flexible when they first hatch, and it's possible to completely correct mild deformities by making splints and other types of hobbles. I made a tutorial for fixing mild and moderate spraggle leg and curled toes on chicks by making two different types of hobbles - here's the link: ua-cam.com/video/VxCwwgsXizs/v-deo.html
I feel lucky that I've only ever experienced the spraggle leg deformity in hatchlings, even after hatching hundreds of chicks over the years, and most of the time it was completely correctable with hobbles. Sometimes hard decisions are made in an effort to act as humanely as possible if the deformity is so severe that the chick wouldn't be able to live a good, happy, healthy life.
So which do you think worked a cold around egg any theories?
Yes, I think storing the eggs at 40*F for 8 hours before setting them, and then maintaining .5*F lower than typically set for the duration of the hatch was key to hatching more hens than roosters.
@@SayWhyChickenThigh So you think it was mostly the male chicks that had health issues and died?
Without having a way to determine the gender of the chick before they hatch, I can't be sure of the gender of the chicks inside the unhatched eggs that didn't finish developing. However- either by strange luck or by one of these variables- this hatch did have a much higher ratio of hens to roosters. Typically, my clutches are about 50/50 hens to roosters, which would lead me to think that either I somehow started with a majority of female hatching eggs, or one of the temperature variables really did work to eliminate the male eggs before hatch. I think it's more likely that the eggs that terminated during the incubation were male and therefore the majority of chicks that successfully hatched were female, but without knowing the gender before hatch that's only my guess.
I have a dry-hatch incubating right now that will hatch on 4/11/23 and once my incubators are freed up again I'd like to set a clutch of mostly round eggs and incubate them at recommended settings. Though I personally don't believe that round eggs produce more hens, apparently many people who viewed this video series do, and I'd like to make a video specifically about hatching only round eggs. I already have all the control groups from the dozens of other hatches I did that were from eggs of all shapes and sizes, which you can see in several other videos on this channel 😁 I hope you're still checking out Say Why Chicken Thigh when the round-only-egg video posts, and when that dry-hatch video posts. Thanks for checking out this video and leaving a comment!
@@SayWhyChickenThigh I look forward to that video!
Thank you!
Doesn't make a bit of difference, non of the methods work, it's just luck of the draw every darn time 😉👌 nice experiment though! Well done videos!
Thanks 👍
Hi, would you say these hens are smaller and lighter in weight?
Hi! I don't weigh chicks so I can only go by my observations and comparisons to other chicks I've hatched. The chicks that hatched from this clutch looked typical to other chicks hatched in other clutches I've hatched. They seemed just as big and heavy as I'd expected and did not seem any smaller or lighter than usual. I have many breeds and cross breed hens, a big Maran X rooster, some Easter Egger roosters, and a Silkie rooster, so I naturally get chicks that are bigger or smaller than their average sized flockmates. For example, this last hatch I did in March 2023 were all Olive Egger crosses, no bantams or Silkies in the mix, and they looked HUGE to me (and very healthy). That mixed breed is a full sized chicken. If you're interested you can see all the roosters from that hatch at 3 weeks old here ua-cam.com/users/shortsUGyP6mHIuB0?feature=share
My roosters make it to the freezer.
Yes, me too. I recently bought a new meat grinder and it has been game changing for my chicken freezer stash. Most of the time I don't get more than 2 pounds off a roo, but I'm processing them around 6-8 months. They're egg layer crosses, after all, so nothing like the 8 pound 8 week old Cornish cross I raise! May I ask, how long do you grow out your roosters to make it more cost effective to keep them for meat?
@@SayWhyChickenThigh I have 1 hen, local Bulik breed not yet laying, 2 RiR chics gender neutral at the moment and 2 other chics which I think are local Kabir of which 1 is definitely a cockrell. I'm hoping for 3 RiR hatching on Monday. I have a kind off mixed batch.
I would need to research again on the rooster as I did watch a few videos on that. I'm guessing till the rooster stops growing or becomes a nuisance.
That's a good idea to grind the meat and save freezer space.
I am not fussed too much on the cost savings. I want good eggs and good meat. I live in SE Asia and I've been to an egg farm which was really shocking the conditions of the hens. Not to mention all the antibiotics they get fed.
My chics get to roam around and I'm learning to harvest BSF.
That's awesome, and very honorable that you are raising your birds in respectable conditions with lots of open space! You may like to see how we raise both Cornish Cross (also called "meat birds" here in USA) and the dual purpose layer breeds chickens. It's possible to raise Cornish Cross on pasture and free range them just like egg layer types, and this video explains how we can separate the two types of birds to give the meat birds higher protein feed to bulk up while also allowing them free spaces to roam. Here's the link: ua-cam.com/video/HLWasXJKR-Q/v-deo.html Lots of luck growing your poultry farm!
Which eggs came out to be a rooster?
Hi,
Here's a link to the first video in this experiment, showing the selection and setting of the eggs this flock hatched from: ua-cam.com/video/1KsoXHI-6Ag/v-deo.html
As it turned out, the shape of the egg was not a reliable indicator for chick gender. The lowered temperatures before and during incubation were the two variables that had the greatest influence over chick gender. This experimental hatched turned out to be 69% female.
@@SayWhyChickenThigh Hi. Actually there would need to be one more control group to know that for sure since all of the eggs incubated were round. To properly do new controls means double work each time. So the same 3 sets of parameters would need to be done using only pointy eggs... This was a very interesting experiment and very informative. I wonder about the sex of the lost chicks and if hatched tooster chicks that barely made it to hatch were less viable in the early days. Thanks a lot for the two videos!
To prove this, you would need a control group, AND a potential rooster group… just doing one setting is not proving anything about any 70%…
I'd love to see this fun project done in different ways! Seeing chicks potentially negatively affected by temp variation is enough for me to pass on trying another variation of this myself, but if you find a video featuring it from another creator, please include the link! Thanks for checking out this video and commenting, and if you're hatching any chicks I wish you the best of luck 🙂
@@SayWhyChickenThigh I’ve tried this several times, albeit with coturnix quails… it’s a myth
I think the hatch rate would have been about the same if you had just used normal methods.
This clutch's hatch rate was definitely lower than all my other hatch rates, which is now an average of about 71.25% after my last two hatches from 4/11/23 that you can see in this video: ua-cam.com/video/YIESVxPEtS0/v-deo.html But who knows? There's so much mystery in the hatching process. Thanks so much for checking out the video and leaving a comment!