The biggest advantage of Incursors/Infiltrators over Scouts is how much harder they are to shift against D1 weapons, so it's really a question of whether they are up there to deal damage or to hold objectives. (Sorry if you said this; I watched this tired.)
I probably didn't tbh, I was trying to compare them against each other rather than against scouts/tacs (I think scouts are probably the true competitor competitive wise). Will probably look at them in a future vid sometime
I like the Phobos units for their utility of getting out front, holding objectives, and area denial. I like using Eliminators and scout sniper squads for back line support, and jumpack units for mobile reinforce. While I like the Autorifle, it isn't the deciding factor overall.
I know a Dark Angels player who tends to use at least 20-30 Infiltrators and 2 squads of Eliminators combined with Intercessors. That alone is nasty since the Eliminators can target characters no matter where they are and the others provide a very solid gun line.
There is one particular advantage to Incursors/Infiltrators to Intercessors that I believe you missed altogether.... Intercessors are plane and boring looking and put people to sleep whereas the Phobos guys are sexy as hell. It doesn't add up on the dice in any way, but it adds up to the style.
I mean the good thing about Intercessors style-wise is that they're pretty much a blank canvas. You can do a lot to kitbash and customize them to make them look way more personalized.
On the tabletop when I deep strike Infiltrators I always tear up the enemy army because of the no charge. They are definitely one of my most valuable units on the tabletop
I see Infiltrators as excellent mid-field objective holders. Infiltrating them onto an objective turn 1 and popping smoke will ensure that an opponent will have to use quite a bit of firepower to shift them, doubly so in cover. The Helix Adept allows you a chance to regain lost manpower suffered further boosting their survivability.
Great video as always. I have 6 x 5 man squads of Intercessors to fill 2 UM battalions. 3 squads of veterans with auto bolt rifles, 1 Sgt with power fist, rest with chain sword and 3 squads of bolt rifles with grenade launchers, 1 Sgt with power sword, rest with chain sword. For what they do with the cheap point cost I decided to go with them other the other 2 types of troops.
I love my infiltrators. I am a DA player. I play 1000pts against bugs a lot and denying Mawlocs and genestealers the opportunity to come up right by troops is great. I usually have a librarian nearby for harder hitting and buffs as you can't buff infiltrator seargents. I put them in cover near an objective and with the helix gauntlet they are surprisingly durable. In tactical doctrine they can use rapid fire and assault weapons in engagement. That ability to deploy anywhere is awesome. A tactical warsuit is pretty good back up as well. I also find the autowounding on 6's useful against bigger bugs.
I'd def plump for intercessors. Although if you know you coming up against strong deep striking army infiltrators have the strongest single rule. I feel if you want infiltrators for anti deep strike you need more than one unit of them.
Scouts are cheap and can be thrown all over the table in 5 men squads. Armed with bolters and a heavy is a nice little unit to block that spits out a bit of fire.
I’m thinking of taking Incursors for my Black Templars. First round charge with paired combat knives sounds so good. What do you think about fire support for BT? Aggressors?
I like running infiltrators with my raven gaurd not only for a deep strike screen but with there smoke grenade I can make them -3 (-4 for 1 unit) to hit for one turn and force them to be the only target witch can help alot early game
@@StuartWaldie well that's no problem I run them with only a librarian and my devistators behind them in sight casting shrowding on the devs making them untargetable and raven gaurd get a natural-1 on anything farther that 12" if there in cover then smoke grenade is another -1 and raven gaurd have a strat for another making them -3 and the only target
As a dark angel player. Regular bolt rifle and heavy are the best options. The heavy for the unique devastator doctrine Rapid fire because dark angels reroll 1 when they didnt move. It synergizes well with bolter doctrine
BOI, you are reading my mind! I use BA duble Badalion, for CP And use 3 bare scouts squad, 2x5 Rapid Fire Intercessors and 1x5 Auto&Fist Incursors and Infiltrators way too pricy. I'd buy more Death Company, insted of Incursors/filtrators And now I thinking about 1x10 Rapidfire Intercessors and 2x5 Auto&Fists
Incursors are better for Blood Angels in general. Intercessors aren't bad but all the extras you get plus the close combat buffs make them a naturally good choice. There's every reason to believe they'll be strong for Space Wolves as well. Probably worth a video from you at some point.
Infiltrators could get better with 12" flamers incoming, since from my understanding this would prevent the flamers from attacking right after deep strike based on the rules wording (deep strikes must be outside 12", and Infiltrator bubbles make it so nothing can deep strike within 12").
So I'm building a turn 1 Flesh Tearers the infiltrators are rather key to getting some primaris close without transportation. Then bringing in a gunship with seth, a priest, and 5 claw terms with a DC dread as a kicker, and dropping a 10 man tac squad on the back side. Lastly wings of fire for a 10 man DC squad that was deployed next to a chaplain for some litanies. Your videos have helped in some of these decisions.
How much do the 9th edition cover changes affect these results? Is it possible to calculate the utility of an ability as a number which could then be included to adjust results?
Very interesting video thanks. I got the Phobos box for Christmas with my initial plan being for Infiltators. Then I found out that the Vanguard set only has ETB Infiltrators. As I will get that too at some point I've made the first 5 as Incursors. Now I'n not sure whether to build 5 Infiltrators to try them out or do the same again. I can't think of many reasons to take a 10 man squad of either.
Well spreading the 10 man infiltrators out to their Max of unit cohesion makes the 12 inch bubble around them huge. Its the only reason I'd use 10 though tbh.
A 10 man squad of infiltrators, stretched to their limits (2 inches apart.) provide a huge denial area. Talking a 54.5 by 24 inch cylinder. Now logically, maybe 4 scouts could do better for that same amount of points, but I’ve taken enough choppas to the face after a Da Jump, followed by teleporta strikes to enjoy the thought of a 12 inch ‘nope’ bubble so I guess you can say I invest for that peace of mind. Not play tested, but I had some infiltrators around since I needed suppressors, so might as well try it. Damn GW.
The biggest draw for infaltrators for me is that 2 squads of 5 can screen a a 48” x 24" section of the board from deep strike. What I do is take the Engineers secondary objective choosing my infaltrators as engineers. Then use the infaltrators to secure the back two objectives. That's let's them hold my back door, score points for hold 1 (often hold more) and the engineers secondary. It's usually good for 8+ victory points a game. Not bad for 220 worth of points.
On the point of preferring scouts over infiltrators you can get a 10-man scout squad for the price of a 5 man squad of infiltrators and deny more of the battlefield.
Came back for another Imperial Fists comment: 10 Intercessors with stalker bolters are Ap -3 and 3 dmg against vehicles, and on average will generate 1 or 2 extra shots. I mean, Yellow Boys lists practically write themselves I once run a squad of 10 with bolt rifles, used bolt storm to shoot 40 times at 30" with bolter discipline, and had a captain and lieutenant nearby for re rolls. I ended up actually hitting the enemy unit (30 Tzangors) with almost 50 shots because of the Fists's trait. Needless to say, they died to the last model
I dont like spending much on my troops so I almost always go with scouts or intercessors I just cant justify the highter points since my army is more elite focus
In the future, sometime after I've recorded it :) probably not for a few weeks in all seriousness. Though there will be a different scout related comparison vid out soon...
@@auspextactics Because a i remember them being lowered to 0 points in an Errata. They costed 1 point when they were introduced. Than lowered to 0. Now they are 1 point again?
Stalkers seem like the way to go on the intercessors with their heavy buff, but all of them will get decent mileage out of the extra bolt shots so the fists are kind of spoilt for choice!
Nice video, good content. Constructive criticism though, maybe try and get some colour into your voice? I wasn't sure if it was a Google bot speaking initially...
That is something I'd not considered... Will look into it, though it would involve redoing the channel visuals style quite a bit. Thanks for the feedback man!
@@auspextactics you can still keep the banner and thumbnail for your videos in the current White style, but actually playing the video and having the background be black would make it much more easier on the eyes in terms of long-term viewing.
As a Blood Angel player, my gut is screaming at me to get Incursors but 3/6 units of 5 can be rather expensive. So I went with a middle ground. 2 units of incursors and 4 of Intercessors w/ Stalker. Let the incursors charge the screen (and experienced players will try to screen to keep my jump pack models away from the back lines.) turn 1 and have the intercessors provide fire support from 36". Turn 2, Bring in the Jump Pack guys while the Intercessors will continue to provide fire support.
Yeah for BA I always think the phobos troops units would be great for first turn pressure, but then when actually making lists I realise I could use scouts and save the points for more elites and damage dealers...
@@auspextactics It is true that scouts are cheaper but the reason why I'm leaning phobos is they have double the health, better armor and better equipment. I would need to spend 110 pts on scouts just to match the health of a 5 man phobos unit.
I mean of course intercestors will come out on top they have multiple rifles for multiple roles. In my firsts I use them over any other primaris troop, whole in my white scars I use infiltrators with a helix and a scout squad to infiltrate and hold objectives and be durable in cover. This doesnt seem to be a fair comparison imo
Well I did say that damage and durability are only one metric. I fully agree that starting outside the deployment zone is a great advantage so it depends what role you need filled :)
My bro, you weren't to excited go make this video, were you? Put some ENERGY in it. The other video where you compare intercessors to assault intercessors to... You sounds happier lol
Personally I’m against fielding any primaris just because I think they’re too gamie. Also I prefer my regular marines because they look nicer with more bits which is great for my Lamenters. Even though they are in the chapter the Lamenters are known to not have as much contact with the imperium. Also I think that Lamenters would struggle too keep the alive and inevitably replace them thanks to primaris needing more resources to maintain.
I love your videos, but is there anyway you can turn down your quality a little bit, I can can hear your tongue and lips smacking. It is quite off putting . But other than that love your tactical video
The biggest advantage of Incursors/Infiltrators over Scouts is how much harder they are to shift against D1 weapons, so it's really a question of whether they are up there to deal damage or to hold objectives. (Sorry if you said this; I watched this tired.)
I probably didn't tbh, I was trying to compare them against each other rather than against scouts/tacs (I think scouts are probably the true competitor competitive wise). Will probably look at them in a future vid sometime
@@auspextactics Yeah scout video would be great.
LOOKING TO PROTECT YOURSELF, OR DEAL SOME DAMAGE?
I prefer my intercessors to be pumping out shots rather then being screens.
I like having some vet intercessors. They get work done in the trenches.
I like the Phobos units for their utility of getting out front, holding objectives, and area denial. I like using Eliminators and scout sniper squads for back line support, and jumpack units for mobile reinforce. While I like the Autorifle, it isn't the deciding factor overall.
Yeah that forward deployment is really nice
I know a Dark Angels player who tends to use at least 20-30 Infiltrators and 2 squads of Eliminators combined with Intercessors. That alone is nasty since the Eliminators can target characters no matter where they are and the others provide a very solid gun line.
Area denial the entire board lol
What I like about this is each one has a pretty specific role to play.
Yeah they're pretty decently balanced with achieving their own roles
Thank you for doing this comparison, it definitely cleared some things up.
Glad you found it some help :)
There is one particular advantage to Incursors/Infiltrators to Intercessors that I believe you missed altogether....
Intercessors are plane and boring looking and put people to sleep whereas the Phobos guys are sexy as hell.
It doesn't add up on the dice in any way, but it adds up to the style.
Preach brother
For at miniatures I got, and just because they look so clean
spotted the stealth archer
I prefer inters xd
I mean the good thing about Intercessors style-wise is that they're pretty much a blank canvas. You can do a lot to kitbash and customize them to make them look way more personalized.
Thank you for doing this video. I was thinking about this exact thing right now with my new UM list.
It's good the primaris are getting a few more expanded options now
On the tabletop when I deep strike Infiltrators I always tear up the enemy army because of the no charge. They are definitely one of my most valuable units on the tabletop
I see Infiltrators as excellent mid-field objective holders. Infiltrating them onto an objective turn 1 and popping smoke will ensure that an opponent will have to use quite a bit of firepower to shift them, doubly so in cover. The Helix Adept allows you a chance to regain lost manpower suffered further boosting their survivability.
Very helpful to have a side by side comparison. Thank you!
Glad you found it useful. Need to think of some other similar units to compare in the near future...
I tend to use infiltrators as imperial fists since you get 2 auto wounds on 6s and you already ignore cover rendering incursors less useful.
I was going to ask why there wasn't an ork in cover like the guardsman and marine, until I remembered that it's an ork.
Great video as always.
I have 6 x 5 man squads of Intercessors to fill 2 UM battalions. 3 squads of veterans with auto bolt rifles, 1 Sgt with power fist, rest with chain sword and 3 squads of bolt rifles with grenade launchers, 1 Sgt with power sword, rest with chain sword.
For what they do with the cheap point cost I decided to go with them other the other 2 types of troops.
"I wouldn't go overboard on the infiltrators"
Me, a RG: ....Too late, brother, I found this too late...
I love my infiltrators. I am a DA player. I play 1000pts against bugs a lot and denying Mawlocs and genestealers the opportunity to come up right by troops is great.
I usually have a librarian nearby for harder hitting and buffs as you can't buff infiltrator seargents. I put them in cover near an objective and with the helix gauntlet they are surprisingly durable. In tactical doctrine they can use rapid fire and assault weapons in engagement.
That ability to deploy anywhere is awesome. A tactical warsuit is pretty good back up as well.
I also find the autowounding on 6's useful against bigger bugs.
I'd def plump for intercessors. Although if you know you coming up against strong deep striking army infiltrators have the strongest single rule. I feel if you want infiltrators for anti deep strike you need more than one unit of them.
Scouts are cheap and can be thrown all over the table in 5 men squads.
Armed with bolters and a heavy is a nice little unit to block that spits out a bit of fire.
@@jamesbryant8133 definitely!
Totally agree!
I’m thinking of taking Incursors for my Black Templars. First round charge with paired combat knives sounds so good. What do you think about fire support for BT? Aggressors?
I like running infiltrators with my raven gaurd not only for a deep strike screen but with there smoke grenade I can make them -3 (-4 for 1 unit) to hit for one turn and force them to be the only target witch can help alot early game
That is a pretty powerful stack of modifiers, you're getting into eldar flyer territory there haha
So I'm sorry to revive a dead thread, how are you going about doing that?
@@StuartWaldie well that's no problem I run them with only a librarian and my devistators behind them in sight casting shrowding on the devs making them untargetable and raven gaurd get a natural-1 on anything farther that 12" if there in cover then smoke grenade is another -1 and raven gaurd have a strat for another making them -3 and the only target
As a dark angel player. Regular bolt rifle and heavy are the best options.
The heavy for the unique devastator doctrine
Rapid fire because dark angels reroll 1 when they didnt move. It synergizes well with bolter doctrine
BOI, you are reading my mind!
I use BA duble Badalion, for CP And use 3 bare scouts squad, 2x5 Rapid Fire Intercessors and 1x5 Auto&Fist
Incursors and Infiltrators way too pricy. I'd buy more Death Company, insted of Incursors/filtrators
And now I thinking about 1x10 Rapidfire Intercessors and 2x5 Auto&Fists
Looks great to me, yeah I've been gravitating towards 3x scouts and 3x intercessors as my go-to for double battlion lists :)
Incursors are better for Blood Angels in general. Intercessors aren't bad but all the extras you get plus the close combat buffs make them a naturally good choice. There's every reason to believe they'll be strong for Space Wolves as well. Probably worth a video from you at some point.
Infiltrators could get better with 12" flamers incoming, since from my understanding this would prevent the flamers from attacking right after deep strike based on the rules wording (deep strikes must be outside 12", and Infiltrator bubbles make it so nothing can deep strike within 12").
So I'm building a turn 1 Flesh Tearers the infiltrators are rather key to getting some primaris close without transportation. Then bringing in a gunship with seth, a priest, and 5 claw terms with a DC dread as a kicker, and dropping a 10 man tac squad on the back side. Lastly wings of fire for a 10 man DC squad that was deployed next to a chaplain for some litanies. Your videos have helped in some of these decisions.
How much do the 9th edition cover changes affect these results? Is it possible to calculate the utility of an ability as a number which could then be included to adjust results?
Incursors are definitely a good unit to use with an assault oriented army, use them to keep your opponent off balance.
I tend to spam scouts on objectives with incursors or intercessors nearby to countercharge.
Very interesting video thanks. I got the Phobos box for Christmas with my initial plan being for Infiltators. Then I found out that the Vanguard set only has ETB Infiltrators. As I will get that too at some point I've made the first 5 as Incursors. Now I'n not sure whether to build 5 Infiltrators to try them out or do the same again. I can't think of many reasons to take a 10 man squad of either.
Well spreading the 10 man infiltrators out to their Max of unit cohesion makes the 12 inch bubble around them huge. Its the only reason I'd use 10 though tbh.
A 10 man squad of infiltrators, stretched to their limits (2 inches apart.) provide a huge denial area. Talking a 54.5 by 24 inch cylinder.
Now logically, maybe 4 scouts could do better for that same amount of points, but I’ve taken enough choppas to the face after a Da Jump, followed by teleporta strikes to enjoy the thought of a 12 inch ‘nope’ bubble so I guess you can say I invest for that peace of mind.
Not play tested, but I had some infiltrators around since I needed suppressors, so might as well try it. Damn GW.
Yeah, there's little argument that these guys offer some of the best deep strike denial in the game :)
Very enlightning, thanks a lot
The biggest draw for infaltrators for me is that 2 squads of 5 can screen a a 48” x 24" section of the board from deep strike.
What I do is take the Engineers secondary objective choosing my infaltrators as engineers. Then use the infaltrators to secure the back two objectives. That's let's them hold my back door, score points for hold 1 (often hold more) and the engineers secondary. It's usually good for 8+ victory points a game. Not bad for 220 worth of points.
Sounds good, yeah digging primaris marines out from cover is a pain, sounds really solid in ITC
On the point of preferring scouts over infiltrators you can get a 10-man scout squad for the price of a 5 man squad of infiltrators and deny more of the battlefield.
I’m building a “spec ops” chapter. Thanks for the info!
Quick question. If I have a 10 man intercessor squad and equip 2 auxiliary grenade launchers, am I only allowed to use one per shooting phase?
Came back for another Imperial Fists comment: 10 Intercessors with stalker bolters are Ap -3 and 3 dmg against vehicles, and on average will generate 1 or 2 extra shots. I mean, Yellow Boys lists practically write themselves
I once run a squad of 10 with bolt rifles, used bolt storm to shoot 40 times at 30" with bolter discipline, and had a captain and lieutenant nearby for re rolls. I ended up actually hitting the enemy unit (30 Tzangors) with almost 50 shots because of the Fists's trait. Needless to say, they died to the last model
Yeah all of these guys love being imperial fists, and particularly the stalkers :D
Nice analysis!
Cheers :)
How good do you think a primaris only (somewhat) BT list would fair?
Really enjoying your videos. Been wondering what bolter variant you'd recommend for Dark Angels intercessors?
I dont like spending much on my troops so I almost always go with scouts or intercessors I just cant justify the highter points since my army is more elite focus
Honestly im just reluctent to get these new marines
When is the scout video coming ?:)
In the future, sometime after I've recorded it :) probably not for a few weeks in all seriousness. Though there will be a different scout related comparison vid out soon...
space marines without the big mega man boots just look wrong so intercessors win by default.
In my meta, lots are deepstriking aggressors, so having the screen of infiltrators is worth it. I plan on using 2x5 squads of them.
Just saying a blanket 'no' to deepstrike charges is pretty epic!
Isnt the auxilarry grenade laucher 0 point? Or did i miss a FAQ eratta?
Pretty sure it was 1pt from the latest codex? May be wrong though, don't have my books to hand
@@auspextactics Because a i remember them being lowered to 0 points in an Errata. They costed 1 point when they were introduced. Than lowered to 0. Now they are 1 point again?
Yes, as of Codex 2.0 the grenade launcher is back up to 1 point.
Great video, thank you!
What do you suggest for Imperial Fists ? Only stalker intercessors or also some infiltrators ? Or maybe scouts ?🤷🏼♂️
Stalkers seem like the way to go on the intercessors with their heavy buff, but all of them will get decent mileage out of the extra bolt shots so the fists are kind of spoilt for choice!
Thank you
Nice video, good content. Constructive criticism though, maybe try and get some colour into your voice? I wasn't sure if it was a Google bot speaking initially...
Haha, noted. I'll try my best. I know I can be a bit monotone from time to time :D
Can you expariment by doing videos where your background is black or a dark colour instead of white? as a lot of people like watching in night mode.
That is something I'd not considered... Will look into it, though it would involve redoing the channel visuals style quite a bit. Thanks for the feedback man!
@@auspextactics you can still keep the banner and thumbnail for your videos in the current White style, but actually playing the video and having the background be black would make it much more easier on the eyes in terms of long-term viewing.
As a Blood Angel player, my gut is screaming at me to get Incursors but 3/6 units of 5 can be rather expensive. So I went with a middle ground. 2 units of incursors and 4 of Intercessors w/ Stalker. Let the incursors charge the screen (and experienced players will try to screen to keep my jump pack models away from the back lines.) turn 1 and have the intercessors provide fire support from 36". Turn 2, Bring in the Jump Pack guys while the Intercessors will continue to provide fire support.
Yeah for BA I always think the phobos troops units would be great for first turn pressure, but then when actually making lists I realise I could use scouts and save the points for more elites and damage dealers...
@@auspextactics It is true that scouts are cheaper but the reason why I'm leaning phobos is they have double the health, better armor and better equipment.
I would need to spend 110 pts on scouts just to match the health of a 5 man phobos unit.
I mean of course intercestors will come out on top they have multiple rifles for multiple roles. In my firsts I use them over any other primaris troop, whole in my white scars I use infiltrators with a helix and a scout squad to infiltrate and hold objectives and be durable in cover. This doesnt seem to be a fair comparison imo
Well I did say that damage and durability are only one metric. I fully agree that starting outside the deployment zone is a great advantage so it depends what role you need filled :)
So many Bolter Buddies!!! Vulken would be proud. Who wants a hug Bolter Buddies!?
I dare you to say the title ten times fast. I DARE YOU
Why not throw invictors, inceptors and impulsors in there while we're at it haha?
My bro, you weren't to excited go make this video, were you? Put some ENERGY in it. The other video where you compare intercessors to assault intercessors to... You sounds happier lol
Personally I’m against fielding any primaris just because I think they’re too gamie. Also I prefer my regular marines because they look nicer with more bits which is great for my Lamenters. Even though they are in the chapter the Lamenters are known to not have as much contact with the imperium. Also I think that Lamenters would struggle too keep the alive and inevitably replace them thanks to primaris needing more resources to maintain.
Primaris shmimaris
Русские субтитры пожалуйста.
I love your videos, but is there anyway you can turn down your quality a little bit, I can can hear your tongue and lips smacking. It is quite off putting . But other than that love your tactical video
Will look into it! Cheers for the feedback
Can't....keep....names...straight
Particularly when they're being deployed by impulsors to fight alongside inceptors and invictors :D
First...... sorry had to do it.
Shame !
They're all trash.
Every other faction's troops are miles better than Space Marines.
It's why i quit this unbalanced POS game.
Eh? intercessors are one of the most point-efficient troops in the game. Not every army has to rely on cheap bodies to be effective
You quit playing WH40k yet you come to a video on WH40k tactics just to tell everyone that you don't play the game. 😂🤣🙄