Autism and the Art of Small Talk - How to avoid small talk and still make a connection
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- Опубліковано 4 чер 2024
- The art of small talk for us is typically a draining activity. However, someone teaching traditional social skills would probably tell you that small talk is just what you do. It’s basically how you initiate a light conversation with someone you don’t know well or when you’re just trying to be polite. What if it is not always a question of “Do I like small talk?” or “Do I not like small talk”? What if it is more about “How much small talk am I happy to tolerate in order to get to the real, interesting, connecting part of the conversation?” In this video, I will share how to avoid small talk by transforming the conversation into something we truly enjoy.
🎞️Timestamps:
0:00 Introduction
0:47 Autistic Social Skills
1:14 What is “small talk”?
1:41 The meaning of “I don’t like small talk!”
4:03 How to transform the conversation
4:14 What are my options?
5:48 Avoid Small Talk and use it as an advantage
5:56 Progression of a conversation
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I love a conversation plan with a diagram, but I was dying to know what you actually said. Like, WORD FOR WORD. It’s the impromptu nature of these things that stumps me as much as anything else. It always helps to add a few lines of pre-prep dialogue to my life kit. :-)
I also found myself wondering...what if there WASN'T an interesting topic connection. Then what?
For me, I try to find an interest I have that people in general may also have. "Have you seen any good movies lately?" for example. Perhaps we'll find a commonality there. They will pretty much always ask back... so if you don't like their kind of movie, when you mention something you like, it might go in a good direction...(If you have a special interest & would like to see if they are also into it, you can mention a movie or show that relates to it...) @@barbarawalker7122
Life kit! Love it
“Solitude is for me a fount of healing which makes my life worth living. Talking is often torment for me, and I need many days of silence to recover from the futility of words.” ― Carl Gustav Jung
I love this and I love Jung. My favourite quote of his is: "Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes." I adore silence and spending time by myself. And there is so much interesting stuff going on in my head and soul, more than in a fantasy book.
@@ivanaamidzic agreed; that's where I spend most of my time.
"L'enfer, c'est les autres" = "Hell is other people" J-P Sartre
Try Defeat, a poem by Kahlil Gibran, too.
@@peteracton2246 This one is also amongst my favourites (I keep them in my quote collection on GoodReads.
I love the title of the video. Yes, please tell us how to avoid the most horrible human interaction ever imagined. The never ending torrent of banalities and the torture of silence in the long breaks.🤣🤣🤣
Easily devolves into gossip, another horror.
Terrific video! Sounds like me too. 🎉 Happy New Year, Paul!
All day long at work I feel like I have the same conversation over and over. It goes pretty much like this: Hi, how are you? I’m good how are you? I’m good.
Yes. Like it's the same conversatin, and with the same person.
This is called polite conversation and helps build connections with people and gauge how they are doing at that day or time of day. Dogs smell each others bottoms before they go romping around with each other, people make small talk before deciding to engage further in conversation or deciding now is not the right time.
@@violetgypsie Except that doesn't build connections with everyone. That means absolutely nothing to me when someone does that with me.
@@yeahokaycoolcool I understand, but it means something to the person you are talking to.
@@violetgypsie Really? The bloke who works in the office three floors up in a completely different department and who happens to have to share the elevator down to the food place with me - for him it is meaningful information when, after a minute of awkward silence, he tells me that it's raining outside?
Even more baffling.
Nurse taking my BP: “How’s the weather out there? Doing anything fun this weekend?”
Me: “Sorry, I can’t do small talk.”
Nurse: “Thank you for telling me. Most people are just rude when they don’t feel like chatting.”
Me: I’d much rather hear about something you’re interested in or something nice that happened to you recently.”
Nurse: (genuinely smiles and tells me about her nephew’s birthday party)
I like asking people to talk about things that they like or are interested in because then I don’t have to talk and they get to relive a happy moment. Everybody wins 😊
Genius!
When I expressed my distain of small talk to my husband and asked him why on earth NTs engage in such time wasting boring activity. He told me actually there are plenty of “meaningful” info coming out of small talks, such as “friends/foe, what the state of the other person is in”, “what potential topics can be explored with this person”, “ to what extent”, ect. I asked him, how to extrapolate all these information from small talks, he said it is hard to explain, body language is part of, and also a vague general feel. And to my surprise, NTs generally feel energized just by engaging in this type of activity, there is emotional hit for them.
For NTs there is this whole social layer of communication that is just not there for us autists. I don't get it either but it's instinctive and natural for them.
it took me 30+ years to realize that NTs actually *enjoy* nonsensical no-purpose small talk in the breakroom at the office. I always thought everyone does it because they *have to*, but no, NTs actually enjoy that stuff. I'm still baffled about how they can enjoy it, because to me it's a nightmare and/or boring, but to each their own I guess.
Yeah. I've seen that with my mom too. I just can't see it. It feels dumb to me.
What your husband is explaining isn't small talk really it is a bit more meaningful. Small talk is mainly shallow conversation that does not help you connect or understand people so I avoid it like the plague even though I am capable of doing it.
Body language is nonsense. Serves more to create confusion & foster prejudice more than anything else. Thanks to research, there is more and more science and evidence against accuracy of body language and face expressions giving away how people feel.
I have come to realise recently that there is a whole layer of communication, the social layer, that I have been completely oblivious to my whole life as an autist. Previously, I thought that people were actually interested in the surface level things they talk about in 'small talk' but it's not about the content, it's about establishing social connections. For many people it seems to be the only level at which they communicate. I once had to watch 5 minutes of the Kardashians as part of a phonetics course (examples of vocal fry) and the inane chitchat was incomprehensible to me, yet millions of people lap it up. I've only just realised that for many people (perhaps the majority?) this social plane of existence is the plane they mostly live on, most of the time, whereas for me this plane might as well not exist.
I have for a long time been puzzled when NTs accuse autists of "not understanding metaphorical language" or "being too literal". I have no problems appreciating poetry and I know perfectly well that at no point was Wordsworth ever an actual cloud. What they mean is that autists fail to appreciate the social aspect of language ... social meanings of words and phrases that are often divorced from their literal meaning.
I watched a video in which people chanting "From the River to the Sea" were asked, "Which river and which sea?"
Many didn't know, but with my new realisation about the social layer of meaning in language, I have come to understand that the literal meaning of the slogan is less important than the social meaning of "I am a member of this political movement."
Another autism UA-camr refers to the "hive mind" or "mind hive", and this social layer of communication signals membership of one's particular hive mind. His theory is that for NTs, being part of the mind hive is far more important personally than understanding the truth of what is said.
I am now keenly following small talk and other such social layer communication to build up a lexicon in my mind that I can make use of.
You wanna be part of the herd/hive mind? I find that we do have lots of challanges in a world that hasn't socially been built for us, but at the same time (as I am often being accused of being 'too literal'), I find that by default I don't have a lot of problems that regular people do, just because I don't place value on and/or don't understand things they rave about & compare themselves against.
Of course that understanding the truth is not a priority in that world, social herding is.
@@ivanaamidzic Yep. I do not want to be part of the herd/hive mind and I totally agree that it makes many things in life easier for me.
Autistic people are great with metaphors. Studies showed that autistic kids came up with the most novel metaphors. Many of us are also obsessed with literature. But when listening to spoken words, my brain, and I'm assuming many other autistic people, hear one word at a time and we interpret the words one at a time so the metaphor is initially "taken literally." This makes sense if you know the monotropism theory of autism and the fact we don't filter info the same way as NTs. I see the literal meaning first then I appreciate the metaphor and I really enjoy them if it is good and appropriate. Consideration of the literal meaning also adds to the appreciation of the aptness of the metaphor
@@f.u.c8308 Yes
I think it's easier to spot metaphors when we know to look for them. My problems with being too literal always came in more in conversations with people, and generally it had more to do with failing to understand exaggeration or hyperbole for effect. Oddly enough, I went through a bizarre phase in high school, where I couldn't get my parents to understand me, so I offered up loads of metaphors that I think were quite good. But it only confused them more & made it worse! lol @@f.u.c8308
I love that I work at an art supply store because its so easy to chat with people in a comfortable way that blurs the line of meaningful conversation and small talk. Since I love talking about art and art supplies, and so does the customer, we have a common interest, and value each other's input. I like hearing their advice on products I don't know so much about, and I love giving advice on the stuff I do know a lot about. Hearing customers tell me their opinions on a product they're buying/looking at makes me better at my job. If a customer is talking about how they really hate a certain product, I'm going to research it later to see if it's just their personal preference or if it actually is pretty bad and we shouldn't carry it anymore.
I draw and buy art supplies often. Sales associates rarely know more than I do if I ask them about products and they wanna sell what has been told by management, not best quality stuff. So annoying. Would be nice having someone with your approach working at my local art supply stores.
It sounds like a calling! How great.
That makes me wish that my application for an art supply store would´ve been accepted when I searched for an internship during my reeducation program for clerks! I ended up in a household appliances store with a touchy boss instead who didn´t explain to me anything about the job. 🙈🙈
I´ve always been creative myself, drawing/painting, writing poems, colour and style analysis, so an art supply store would make such a good environment, even if it´s not actual selling products but working in administration in ANY way that would be related to the products.
I even worked as an assistant in a house for physically and/or mentally handicapped people before I knew about my ND, but there was almost zero talking at all for 2 years and I helped in every area and in the end I felt so isolated and exhausted by all the work without the feeling of being part of the team, that I became very sick. In hindsight I understood somewhat that this job was designed to be for limited time (not being allowed to stick with just 1 of 3 groups inside the house, and that they abuse people like me for hard work in the household, but won´t allow that they participate in team meetings to get a better understanding of the residents)
You are the reason I buy Online if able to.
Authenticity is so important to me. Knowing that now, I can do small talk more comfortably because I find ways to bring authenticity in - either my humour or perspective or steering to topics I'm interested in or asking questions I'm genuinely curious about. It feels way better.
Also being less self conscious and anxious now it flows better. When I was younger I had so much fear of getting it wrong that I got in my own way.
I avoid small talk by avoiding people. I also have small cards that I can hand to people (eg market researchers and shop assistants) that say I don't do small talk because I am autistic. I might do a tiny amount if I feel capable, and don't want to appear rude, but outside of that I won't do it. As I said at the beginning, I avoid people, so thankfully these situations are few and far between. If your situation had happened to me, I'd have got up and walked out the moment the other person came in, but, I'm never going to use a sauna so I'm safe there lol. I think you got very lucky on the conversation moving on to a subject you both liked. In 60 plus years, I've never been that lucky. The moment anyone starts to talk to me, I am looking for an out STAT. For me it's not about it being meaningless chat, it's the fact that it is another person.
oh what a good Idea and I'm older so i would happily do that.
Me too.
This sounds like a real energy-saver. The cards are brilliant, especially in those situations. I definitely think the idea that we need to be talking to people should never be pushed on anyone. Not everyone needs or wants to and society shouldn't push it on everyone.
I like your idea of the cards.
I usually just ignore them or say I am late for something.
That's a great way to use small talk and to think about it.
I'm usually far more direct which can make the regular folk uncomfortable.
Once, I was in the sauna with my husband and three other people, and I don’t know how he does this, but he just started talking about his ideas for fixing economic problems, and it turned into this round-table with strangers about how to solve pertinent issues in the community. At the end of 20 minutes or so, one lady told my husband if he ran for office she’d vote for him. 😆 He never does small talk in any setting, but launches into his passions, and somehow he can get people interested and engaged. I try to do the same, and most folks I run into find it refreshing and willingly do away with petty conversation when given the chance. I’m not sure if I’ve met anyone who actually enjoys small talk…
Thank you for teaching REAL social skills in a way that actually makes sense to me.
I used to teach English conversation in Japan. There was one guy all the teachers except me couldn’t stand because he could be really inappropriate and they found him offensive. But I loved him because he actually made conversations fun! He also gave the best answer ever to “How are you?” His answer: This morning I had (makes a fist) Morning Wood!”
Your story made me feel emotional, hearing about the connection you made
Simply pondering the question "What would I like to do in this situation, to make it pleasant and enjoyable for me?"
So often I'm focusing on what I think I should do, or what I think the other person wants
It seems so simple, yet profound, to actually focus on what I want
Thank you for this :)
Yeah I had started to do this recently. Sometimes you just can't find common interest or the other person isn't interested or willing to say enough about themselves to allow you to have any in-depth conversation. It's partly luck and obviously requires the effort and social skills. I don't always have the energy for haha
I had a lovely experience a couple of weeks ago. I shared about my expertise with vision improvement on a facebook friend's post and mentioned that I love teaching it to people. One of my friend's friends asked for help, so we set up a video call. Once we got the sound and video working, I simply said, "I'm not good at small talk. Can we jump right into it?" and she said yes. We've met a couple more times online since then, and it's so delightful to just jump right in with "It's good to see you. How are your eyes since the last time we met?" I also have a dear friend who, like me, has difficulty with temperature regulation, so talking about the weather is actually relevant - "It's so cold, how are you doing with that? I think I should put on another sweater" or "The heat is killing me. Let's do that acupressure thing together today." But that's different from the usual small talk thing where you're expected to develop rapport by agreeing with the other person's helpless complaint about the weather. It's not about rapport or agreement - the purpose is to spur each other to do something about it if something is off kilter. Sometimes we spend a whole hour just figuring out what our bodies need and doing those things, and that can be more supportive than yakking about our problems. 🙂
Sounds like EDS
@@titanbuck7 Lots of ND have temperature regulation issues, without the connective tissue problems of EDS or the neurological symptoms of dysautonomia. Taking chromium and doing acupressure for the HPA axis help me the most with temp regulation.
chromium, interesting recommendation. thanks @@shaynaformity1384
There is some overlap with hypermobility spectrum issues and dysautonomia and also POTS, if you haven't looked into these things, shaynaformity. I feel you on the temperature swings. @@titanbuck7
That's wonderful! Good going!
I also like to take a small-talk conversation fairly quickly into finding subjects that are of mutual interest or subjects where the other person knows more than I do and I can learn.
On a confident day I use the same skill of initiating small talk and rapidly directing it (usually with humour) to something much more interesting. On other days I shrink inside myself and hope they won’t notice me. My nephew’s go to conversation starter is “just a quick question…..” and then following it with something he’s really interested in, as he doesn’t have the patience for the social dance NT’s require to get there. It’s amazing how many people respond because they’ve been told it’s only a quick question first, even though it’s clearly anything but 😂
I find small talk awkward and kind of exhausting. Most communication I find draining.
The example is something, that's hard to imagine.
You started a conversation and it ended well
Small talk I think is an unavoidable icebreaker. However, if it goes on and on I get irritatedly bored. I found this video very informative and strategic thanks Paul.
Used to have a real problem with this but eventually I came to the realization that I really don't want to get any closer to most people than I absolutely have to.
After that small talk was a bit of a revelation and deeper probing statements became far more troubling. Realizing people used them to probe my defenses to see whether they would be able to exploit myself.
It's not always that way, obviously but far too often it is and with most people at some point they will be seeking advantage.
I have done similarly to what is explained in the video and have found it can be somewhat rewarding but personally find I have far less appetite for conflict than most people seem too.
I don't find silence awkward or uncomfortable. I am way more uncomfortable in small talks.
Yes! 🖤
Haha yeah I found that to be an odd statement. He calls it awkward silence? I call it an ideal situation.
I'd take the sitting in silence over any talk. If you had tried to converse with me (especially after I did not join in), I probably would have excused myself and left.
I appreciate the way you break down the problem and use an engineering approach to solving and explaining it. Your explanations always help me understand communication in a new way. I realize I use a similar approach when talking with someone one-on-one. It is more difficult at a larger event, because of (1) sensory overwhelm and (2) competing claims on the other person's attention. I would be interested to know how you can use this approach in a social gathering.
2:36 yes! If small talk is a preface to my comfort and over all flow of energies, I’m happy to engage bc it makes sense that sharing anything meaningful would need some sort of preface. We can use small talk to turn the conversation in a substantial direction as we see fit by engaging a bit with the other persons energies and using our emotional intelligence to realize the optimum outcome of the overall engagement. I like this video, thanks!
I can't wait to watch this one
I usually put on an amusing "show" when there are a number of people (I must have a good number of spoons to do this) in order to read the room. If they like it, then I've started a fun conversation. If they are moving away, then I will stay quiet and listen to see what they like to talk about. I also watch how I am with them. If I'm more talkative then they usually like me. This is how I compensate for my low social intuition (or whatever that is). Sometimes they walk away, and sometimes I get stuck in small talk...but usually they like my energy. I think it is possible to leverage our strengths to find our way to a mutually interesting connection. I like how Paul framed it- Figure out your goal. What kind of discussion do you want in that situation. Or start with a few planned ones, and then develop more as you get better at it. And use your empathy to compensate for lower social skills.
There are way too many variables to discuss here, but have hope and keep at it.
I will never engage in small talk for long just to make typicals happy.
What a great example. Just discovered this channel. Absolutely respect and love.
Very enlightening video ❤. I’ve been using the technique of creating more meaningful conversations and I feel like this can only have good results when you are talking to someone who trully “cares” about the conversation they are having, or else it just ends up making me feel like I overshared. Some people are not ready to be genuine and that’s how I see it with my autistic traits. So I feel stuck trying to engage as a people pleaser which I know is exhausting but I feel unsatisfied after, yet neurotypicals seem to enjoy that. So sometimes socializing just feels like a game where you have to balance what’s best for you VS others.
I saw my mother like yesterday and she really did just talk to a stranger about the weather, its crazy to me, and she's probably on the spectrum as well
My technique is I just, dont do it if youre just passing by, but if were together, like in a classroom alone, and you try smalltalk, ill turn it into a conversation and well bond much better heh.
well, in my limited experience
Howdy.
I am not much of a small talker. If the jive doesn't approach a point pretty soon I just go quiet and indifferent and go away.
But my brother is on another level. When people say hi or hello to him his usual response is: "Hello and case closed". Now that is cutting the jive short alright ...
Regards.
My strategy, funnily enough, typically tends to be a non-strategy, wherein I will just let it be silent. Not ignore-the-other-person silent, I'll look over and smile or what-have-you, but typically people aren't as comfortable in silence as I am, so they tend to fill it with whatever they decide to talk about. So we'll go from there. If they don't, than oh well- as I said, silence doesn't really bother me
Fascinating, as always: thank you. If I'm surrounded by small talk for too long, I start to feel as if a camera has zoomed out and I'm suddenly much further away from everybody even though nobody has moved. I'd be interested to know more about how you initiated and developed the conversation: thinking of myself in that situation, I don't think I'd have been able to find the words.
Sometimes I try to reconnect with some friends I stopped seeing by texting them and small talk is basically the only topic I have, so we talk a little and then at the end of the conversation I have learned what they do at the moment but I am not closer to them in any way. I think the main reason why I try to reconnect is that there are few people I feel at ease with and in the first place I dislike throwing things away. But otherwise I don't think I do a lot of "small talk" and it may be one reason why I don't make friends easily.
I already think about what I will enjoy when choosing events where I hope to meet people. The strategy of picking something related to a special interest gives me a hook to hang some conversation on. I've made a lot of acquaintences this way. I think a big challenge that I still haven't overcome is how to continue the connection outside of the intitial conversation or the context where we met.
I actually blank and often have to ask for small talk to be repeated or I just let it go. Chat is, hypothetically, a substitute for social grooming seen in (other) primates. I want to be by myself (mostly), autos (αὐτός) - Ancient Greek for self. I love to talk about (what I consider) interesting stuff. I soak up facts. Facts and dates hooked together in my cerebellum - bliss. That's me. At this stage in my life I am not prepared to apologise for my "nature". Very interested video Paul.
Funny setting. I don't know about sauna's at gyms or in general in Australia, but over here in the Netherlands talking in the sauna (at a spa at least) is frowned upon and actually part of the reason I like to go there.
"Words are the source of misunderstandings", the Fox from the Little Prince
“We're fascinated by the words--but where we meet is in the silence behind them", Ram Dass
Small Talk, yeah... I wanna go berserk like: "Meteorological phenomena are described and quantified by the variables of Earth's atmosphere: temperature, air pressure, water vapour, mass flow, and the variations and interactions of these variables, and how they change over time. Different spatial scales..."
1. * music stops *
2. Make a serious face
3. Say "RUN!"
4. Epic chase scene with wrapped around towels, Mission Impossible style
Happy imagining for those with synesthesia
Small talk feels like a plodding, archaic dance that everyone has to learn because TRADITION, despite the fact that nobody enjoys it. I try to remember that neurotypical people aren't inclined to infodump the way many of us do; we can't just depend on them to give us what we'd consider relevant information. Sometimes we have to use a verbal oyster fork. The bit I find difficult is gauging whether a question is appropriate. (Some stuff is, even to me, pretty obvious, but there's a huge gray area.)
Trying to remember a formula like "they ask a question, I give an answer, then I ask a question, and they give an answer" has been helpful. Doesn't necessarily make the conversation more interesting, but it helps avoid what the other person might consider an uncomfortable/awkward silence.
Small talk - as well as lying .. are kind of my social pet peeves. Never been good at it, never liked it very much. But recently, small talk has been getting more enjoyable, and this reframing will probably help a ton more with that, too! Thank you!
I think even neurotypical people can learn something from this
I wear a mask, tinted glasses, and earphones when I go out, so people don’t tend to hijack me for small talk. If they try to, I politely say I am listening to music and don’t want to talk. I don't find silence awkward and think sometimes people just talk for the sake of talking. I have far to many sensory issues and social anxiety when I am in public places so I don't want to chat to anyone really and especially if it's small talk.
Great advise. Thank you.
Genius Paul. Simple, but very helpful. Thanks!
Depends on the context of the small talk. My brain hack to override my hatred of small talk is simple. in the intrinsic drive to gain and share knowledge. I engage more with strangers to learn perspectives they have to say. Some people, Randoms. Have said rather profound things, and its never who youd assume. Its kinda fun to talk to some random person for no reason, and be taken aback by something fascinating.
Doesnt work all the time.
tool: small talk to gather information and perspectives.
Thank you so much for allowing myself to regain my peace of mind, knowing that I will never be good at small talk. When it's a one-on-one conversation, I can usually find a way to not be completely verbally useless to the other person. But establishing real connection has always been a real issue for me. And don't get me started on what happens when I get into a conversation with multiple people at the same time...
I've been doubting my ability to actually talk at all for so long that it is beginning to drive me insane. Thanks to your video, I now have inspiration to make concrete plans for socializing in all kinds of situations in a way that actually allows me to connect with the other person instead of having to rely on him/her to lay that connection for me. You might have just saved my life with these eight minutes, quite literally in fact.
Thank you so much for this video. I think most people can relate to these scenarios. It might go deeper than just autism and just the human condition of having shame or guilt in our lives that makes connecting with others difficult. Even deeper is knowing how to love one another. ❤️
I used to do mortgage phone sales. It was extremely stressful, but my goal was to find way to make each conversation interesting to me. I used open probing questions to find interesting topics to ask follow up questions about.
I averaged one refinance per month. It was below average for the company but not that bad for an undiagnosed autustic person.
I would be very interested in hearing you address something I've heard nobody else even verbalize or examine. I've dubbed it the I'm With Him Syndrome. It's just one of the things that have leaped out of the murky fog into high resolution. After my own ASD discovery last April, the "movie reel" of my life has been replaying on my mind's screen through a radically new lens, isolating, highlighting and clarifying experiences I never had a word, a defining principle, for before. The Aha!'s have just cascaded incessantly and, yes, wonderfully. "So THAT'S what was happening there!" Paradoxically, all these Aha!'s have had the effect of letting myself off the hook when it comes to feelings of guilt, stupidity, interpersonal cluelessness, inappropriate blunders, etc., AND they have also let other people off the hook in my memories and feelings, too. I didn't know, and THEY didn't know. Sure, some people could have tried better with me, but I can't help feeling magnanimous toward their ignorance, since I was just as ignorant of what was really "wrong" with me. And that it wasn't really so "wrong," just seriously different. Anyway, one of the things that has come into sharp focus for me is this "I'm With Him Syndrome." What I mean by that is, I recognized a series of intense friendships along the path of my life (the "best friend ever and forever" kind of intensity) had a LOT , not all but a LOT, to do with the sense of safety these friendships provided me socially. I might not know why else I was in a particular social setting or how else to cope with the mind-jumbling input but...at least..."I'm with him." That was my ticket to feeling part of things yet without having to be totally "me." I could just be "his friend." And that made me both special, welcome, yet wonderfully off center stage. Center stage in an informal group situation is a prospect of horror to me. I can deliver a prepared speech extremely well, seemingly spontaneously, to an audience of hundreds. But a living room packed with twenty or thirty raucously chattering human beings is a miasma of cognitive chaos and panic to me. In such situations, "I'm with him" was my ticket to relative definition and self-awareness, an identity that cut through the noise. I wonder whether others on the spectrum can relate to this "'I'm With Him Syndrome"?
I think what you are describing here is a wonderful example of creative problem solving and coming up with an original solution for every day situations that are so difficult to deal with, but everyone else seems to be fine with. The only things is, how much has this served you in the long run and if it took away from your own unique way of existing around, if constantly in someone else’s shadow, even if that is used as a social survival strategy.
I feel for you, even though this is quite different for me. I do relate to what you describe as ‘cognitive chaos’, but not ‘a panic’ part.
For some reason I tend to attract people’s curiosity and attention no matter who I am with or not with, so constantly trying to avoid this and minimise too much contact with pretty much everyone is a skill I am perfecting my entire life. This is nothing against anyone, but I don’t have capacity for nor interest in so much interaction as the average person does. Also, people wanting to interact prevents me from actually analysing their behaviours, which is way more interesting to me than talking. I wish I had invisibility cloak or something.
@@ivanaamidzic Thank you for your very thoughtful reply! I am glad to say, at my 66 years of age, that I have evolved into a "I'm with ME" state of mind, but, yes, you're right, in my younger years my need for a safe friend to identify with surely stifled my self-understanding and opportunities. It wasn't, of course, ever a conscious strategy. It was an instinctive coping mechanism. Only now can I see it for what it was.
That is a brilliant social skill to have!
Very useful advice! Thanks!
Great video! Could you maybe deliver into these aspects in relation to non strangers? I don't really care about my lack of small talk with strangers because it's not that damning on a day to day and I'm used to being uncomfortable or awkward or making others feel that way. What really feels harmful is that I don't do small talk with all my friends and family. I always only talk about in depth or deep things. I never engage in small talk and that's challenging for all the NTs in my life. It's nice when we do talk very rarely and have way more deep conversations that they wouldn't have with other ppl, but it's also a drag for them that I otherwise don't engage with them or talk. I used to mask a lot more before I became disabled so I'd do a lot of small talk through text and keep a thick book of hundreds of acquaintances throughout my teens and twenties. But after I became disabled it was physically harder to type to ppl and since I don't do small talk verbally, it just has become non existent thing in my life to the detriment of family and friends. I want to know how to get myself on a schedule for small talk and catching up with ppl in my life moreso than strangers because social awkwardness I can excuse by saying I'm shy (which I'm not). But with ppl in my life it's harder on them that I just don't do any touch base sorta stuff or small talk ever. I don't know for to put myself on a schedule for that or how to engage in small talk when it's not with a stranger. It feels unnecessary and useless, but I know it's necessary and useful for NTs.
I avoid small talk by having born in and living in Finland 😂 We have even a saying "Speaking is silver, staying silent is gold." And in general, at least stereotypically, Finns are bad at smalltalk, and we generally can comfortably stay silent even in a a group of people. Typically with strangers, we either just nod (like in a sauna in a gym), say just one sentence or two, or talk about topics that are mutually interesting. Another thing is, Finns are usually quite straightfoward in their communication style (not really unpolite, though it may seem like that to an outsider), so there are certainly some things that make the country more hospitable to people on the spectrum. On the other hand, we also are no always too good at accepting differences, and some things in medicine and especially in the psychiatric care seem to drag behind.
Im lucky that im actually fine talking about the weather, because here in canada it is certainly crazy inconsistent:p
I am so busted 😂. I like this video. Ask good questions to direct a meandering pointless dialogue.
I avoid most people in order to not engage in conversation. However if someone initiates communication I’m polite and respectful but I don’t like it. I am aware that most of the time I make people feel uncomfortable, and this feeling is unsettling to me. It’s a vicious cycle that I can’t break. So in order not to effect others lives negatively I remain alone and stay silent. I know this is a terrible strategy but the more time that passes the harder it is to form meaningful relationships.
I like talking to clerks in stores and so. Perhaps because I’m lonely sometimes. But I live in Sweden which is notorious for people who avoid social interactions with strangers.
We refrer to Small talk as ”Dead talk” or ”Cold talk”.
And Swedes, when talkinh, generally talk about facts and things with a shared meaning to the participants.
Sure, we can talk about the weather with people we know. But generally we don’t speak if it is. Ot cordial and we have important things to speak about.
Yes, that's one of my favourite cultures. For those exact reasons. 😘
As a Swede, it's quite nice to not have "dösnack" with people. One thing ive always disliked was when people ask "how are you ?", dislike it even more than small talk cause they don't ask cause they care. They only ask cause it's a thing you are supposed to ask for some dumb reason.
@@SvengelskaBlondie I understand the feeling of someone trying to connect for no apparent reason. I get suspicious. But it can be nice to break the awkward silence sometimes. Like when you are alone with someone while waiting for the bus. It of course depends. In my view however, it is rude not aknowledging someone
@@marna_li I always at least try to respect someone by responding to them if they approach me and try to talk, doesn't mean I always like it. If I really don't want to talk, I just walk away, I prefer that over being rude and using "mean words" to convey the same concept of wanting to be left alone.
If you have a chronic illness, the "how are you" question is the worst! lol. You literally have to lie or say something negative immediately. haha@@SvengelskaBlondie
Sometime ago I realized that the hobby hack is one of my preferred methods! I love to learn so if it’s something unfamiliar, I’m usually down to learn the basics of something new. So if they seem willing to talk about it, I turn on my inquisitive mode.
I also like to ask about people’s preferred media and their favorite characters. It’s my artist/writer’s way of getting to know some of their values covertly. 😆 Also, as a creative, it works as fuel/inspiration for when I’m making fictional characters. 😈 My artistic agenda bwahaha
How do you do this with someone who does not watch media? I draw, but i don't watch media. Even UA-cam I mostly listen, I rarely watch it. I prefer learning, doing sports, and experimenting rather than watching fiction.
If possible I try to, if stuck in one I try to end as quickly as I can with keeping politeness in mind
I couldn’t focus on the video for a few minutes because I noticed how you look at the camera for a few seconds and then you look away and then look back for another couple seconds and then look somewhere else and then repeat, and how that is exactly what I do.
One thing I do - as someone on the spectrum - is listen to what other people are talking about and then try to follow on with that if I am alone with someone.
I like what you said. 😊
7:15 I watch the news and weather so I can make small talk. Evidently, that can be problematic based on your sources. I tend to watch my boots in social situations instead and say all the things I might say in my head.
Simple. Just don't answer when people small talk at you until they leave.
Use this tip at your own risk. haha
🤣
I do this at times, love it.
it all in how to connect small talk to the intresting things . . the system teaches you to talk about weather first but the natural thing to expand to weather about is eather weather in other places ot remembering bad storms of the past both w though very intreating are kinda strange topics and give of a negative what else can an unimployed person talk about.
Thank you for your Video. Trying to turn small talk into interesting conversations is something I do intuitively most of the time. Sometimes it works well (maybe because I have a sort of a "filter" for people who are a bit different, so they seem to enjoy it to). But there are many situations where I have the feeling that others are incomfortable with the "depth" of the conversation without telling me. As if I wanted to cling to them. Not sure if this is the right term.
As someone who had always lived with the feeling of being somehow awkward, it feels like I'm just provoking more rejection. Being a little bit too chatty in general doesn't help either. It would be interesting if someone here hase similar experiences (and perhaps knows ways to deal with such situations)
I'm an autistic Gen-X person. I'll tell you that all my life, I've never wanted to waste time talking about nothing in particular, I always want to get to the 'meat' of the subject and apparently that is rather harsh toward anyone who's NT.
Every situation is different
Very dificult. Sometimes I stay in silence, sometimes I try to do small talk a little but I feel awkward...I'll try to go into some interest a little...This difficult turns me into a sort of dissociation, and I stay in my thoughts in silence...😊
The only ppl i have to small talk with is coworkers to keep from awkwardness and in general i found crap talking the work place and work systems is funny and acceptable to others - in this way it kind of avoids small talk and talking about mutual struggles. And u could start by answering "how are you" and start some sort of rant. Some ppl get uncomfortable sometimes but i noticed even if they are suprised at first - later on they know they can come to me with crap talking 😂
Small talk is the barrier to interesting and/or meaningful conversation/connection, it's up to you whether you want to get past it to reach that meaningful conversation/connection
Personally I dislike it when I'm not looking to really talk with anyone because I always feel forced to say or do certain things just because it's sorta expected for everyone to just do that
I think as already stated that small talk is horrible, beyond horrible. I also think tha5 the greater population who think they are normal just use it because they are not really Interested in anyone but themselves and their own lives. Strangely it is us neuro diverse who ge5 a bad name for being self obsessed. Actually some of us really are I retested in other humans and helping them find solutions for things they find difficult which we don’t with our diverse thinking. Is it any wonder we end up going bleurghhhh and yapping on about ourselves inanely when normal people actually just don’t communicate anything ?
I think I'm quite good at avoiding small talk. Sometimes, I think I'm too good at it. I feel like I've gotten into a habit of too much masking, smiling and waving at people while walking for example. My mom does this & it seems to make people happy. So, I started doing this & it became a habit. But, for some reason with me, they will just cross over and start talking. We go from 0 to 60 (like miles per hour) and suddenly we're actually in deeper than I want to be. Like we aren't talking about interests or hobbies but really heavy life stuff, and maybe I'm not ready to talk about religion or grief or something right away. This happens A LOT. Like, everywhere I go. It isn't that I don't care exactly, but I don't have the bandwidth for the people I already have in my life. Maybe it's a too much eye contact issue. IDK. My wife said just keep walking, but I freeze. Where I want to master the small talk issue is like family/friend stuff. My pre-prep techniques have always been pretty bad. I have one line that I think of ahead of time for a certain person, but when the social event happens, sometimes the context is all wrong... for example... someone is in a hurry or distracted by something & I didn't see it coming. I like this idea more that it's a road map and there may be some flexibility required, perhaps, because it can keep you out of the trap of your script going wrong, or losing your place if the one thing you thought to say can't land in the conversation they are bringing to you. This sounds so helpful. The better interactions I have are with people who also hate small talk. Literally, any introvert pretty much also hates small talk. So, you have like a 1 in 4 chance...
I'm glad I live in a culture where being silent in a sauna is the default mode :D
Iam a 34 year old diagnosed asperger autistic and I cant understand smalltalk when people always stay at the same stage of conversation. it is weird to me and makes no sense. i rather be quiet than talking nonsense for half an hour. i hope i will be better at it someday. iam diagnosed on the 16.01.2024.
I like your strategy, but atm i just don't have the energy to apply the strategy in my life.
For me I can almost deal correctly with the one to one situation. The group small talk at the coffee machine is a nightmare though. I said almost for the one to one because I can push the level of interest in most topic a bit to far.
I use a similar strategy, it means that for a while I have to steer the conversation until common ground is found, something I find quite stressful but can be worth it if I'm successful, I can then relax and wind down. This method can be difficult at times but usually cuts out the awkward small talk. My main problem is that I have no interest in many male orientated subjects ie. sports, cars, current affairs etc. 🧔 👍
Yeah, guys are treated in a really weird way, conversationally about sports, especially! I always thought it was SO weird that people find autistic special interests weird when SO many people watch football... ???? It sounds like you have to beat them to the punch or learn a good segue. I can't imagine being a guy expected to talk about things guys are supposed to talk about. I don't think I'd go anywhere!
5:05 Sounds great, in theory. For me that'd mean the conversation ends up with something like
"So what do you think of the proposed BRT the local government is putting it and do you think it's stupid we're getting a BRT over a Light Rail?"
And they'll say, "what the fuck are you talking about?" or "We get it Thysios, stop talking about public transit.
Definitely not speaking from experience.
I don't even like most intros on UA-cam videos, I don't include yours in this. But when a youtuber starts a video by going on and on talking about what they're going to talk about; I usually skip part it, or start saying: "I know, I know! Just get to the point already!"
My problem is I can only tolerate about 5 minutes tops of the surface level conversation. So then when it goes past that and the person I'm talking to has nothing in common with me, wtf am I supposed to do? I can't force myself to be uncomfortable every single time I interact with people like that. If it matters I mainly am referring to family with this issue. It's people you regularly are around yet all conversations are completely surface level and there is nothing to actually connect over.
If I am alone, I do no talk. No one approaches, I don't initiate. Sometimes people who know my cats or mom, they will bring that up. Otherwise most talk is when I am with my cats. Then it tends to focus on them.
I generally do not initiate conversations. I've never been able to do that comfortably or with any success. I just avoid eye contact and project a "do not approach" vibe. Problem is...how to turn it off so I can maybe make some positive changes. I've been doing it for over a half-century, I don't know any other way to meet the world.
I strongly believe nearly all smart people hate small talk, not just autistic people. Although there is a logical reason why starting with meaningless small talk is the norm - it is because most people don't want too many of the deeper complexities of every stranger they meet to be instantly thrown at them.
Even if I have pre-scripted what I am going to say, I have awful trouble trying to get what I want to say out; usually trying to say several sentences at once. If a reply is not in the script, I find trying to find words to reply & get my thoughts across practically impossible.
This, so much this.
My mind usually goes blank and I desperately try to think of a question, except when I do, all the ways it could be misinterpreted come to mind. Otherwise, I resort to, "Hey, how'ya doin?' and hope they ask something interesting. It's torture.
Normalize authentic social skills...
Them - "How are you today"
Me - eyes widen, thoughts spin ... what happened to me today to establish my current state of regulation or more likely disregulation ... "I am... uhh... not sure... ok I think?"
Them - "What?"
Me - anxiety ensues ... what do I do next? "Uhh... how.. are you?"
Them - "Oh you know."
Me - damn... did I know... do I know now.. what do I know... what is happening right now.. why is this interaction still happening.. how do I get out of this?!?
Small talk is pointless unless it's an introduction. I watch my family talk about benign things and I just sit there and observe and questioning in my head, Why? Lol
That’s such a good advice lmaooo
How avoid nervous awkward silence? Seems like only I can’t tolerate it it’s so shameful
So you avoided small talk by making small talk until you implemented a strategy to transform it into a real conversation?
I applaud your success, but I also question whether and how this significantly differs from what usually occurs in a "normal" neurotypical encounter with a stranger.
I also observe that this approach more often than not fails for me because unless I have some reason to suspect a commonality of interest, it takes so long to find a strategy that the conversation lapses or feels forced.
I avoid it by running late or acting shy. Sometimes I just tell people what I'm thinking, example "It feels odd to just say nothing, do you want to talk or should we just sit and enjoy the silence". Most of the time when I am very forward others seem to be fine with it. But occasionally I will get someone who becomes very confused. Then i just apologize and try to back off. I am not recommending these btw.
Well this is why neurotypicals generally small in the first place isn't it, to get to know each other and hopefully find some common ground, I can't do it, I usually end up waiting for someone else to pull me into a conversation short cutting past the whole small talk bit because they've noticed a common interest by observing what I was doing
I fall under the impression that this characterises the autistic individual as deficient - it's just implicit in the premises and you have to dig it out with reasoning.
I know that 9/10 times when I attempt to small-talk with another person, they're neurotypical and lack the authenticity, candour, humility and intelligence that many (but not all) neurodivergent people have.
It's like unwrapping layer after layer of paper only to discover yet another disappointment. So, unless a person specifically intrigued me, I won't waste my time.
Yes!!
same
i spent 12 years selectivly muteish...and was diciplined too not speak onto of that, then didnt really have a conversation till i was 30
i never have anything too say, i go to geberic borms and somtimes sit there and say nothing for way too long because NASA. also if its getting weird and im uncomfortablw because i dont ynderstand i minic situations i have watched
i do know how too ptfo though because you know where the conversation has too go and end