Versus Series: Vodo-Siosk Baas Vs. Darth Zannah
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- Опубліковано 17 вер 2024
- My analysis of Jedi Weapon Master Vodo-Siosk Baas will be primarily drawn from his appearances in the Tales Of The Jedi comic series and audio drama, with background information on his training and skillset pulled from the Power Of The Jedi Sourcebook and the Jedi Academy Training Manual. My analysis of the Sith Sorceress Darth Zannah will be drawn from her main appearance in the Darth Bane Trilogy of novels, in addition to the Jedi Vs. Sith comic series, with background information on her training and weaponry drawn from the Book Of Sith and the article The Story Of General Grievous: Lord Of War. Background information on Jedi and Sith lore will be drawn from The Jedi Path, The Essential Guide To The Force, and The Old Republic Encyclopedia, among others.
I essentially inherited this project from EvanNova95, and have been working on it for a while, but it struck me as a particularly appropriate companion to my collaboration with GreyJedi91, Exar Kun Vs. Darth Bane. Given that both sets of characters are featured in the same set of sources, Tales Of The Jedi and the Darth Bane Trilogy respectively, researching both sets of characters was relatively easy.
Vodo-Siosk Baas, former master to the firebrand who instigated the Great Sith War, and Darth Zannah, first apprentice to the reformer who founded the Rule of Two. If these two controversial figures were to meet in single combat, who would win?
I made a number of errors within the video where I attribute passages from the Darth Bane Trilogy to the incorrect chapters within the various entries. This catalogue will present the correct chapters for each passage:
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 1 -[14:15]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 7 - [13:23]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 9 - [24:16]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 10 - [10:26], [10:41], [10:50], [11:12]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 11 - [11:04]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 13 - [09:59], [10:07], [10:13], [10:19], [12:09], [12:20], [13:03], [13:13], [14:29], [23:49], [23:56], [32:35], [33:19], [32:35], [33:43], [34:17], [34:24], [34:59], [35:09], [35:15], [35:22], [35:26], [35:30], [40:44]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 15 - [14:47], [24:27], [24:34], [35:43], [35:53], [35:57]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 16 - [11:24]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 20 - [25:16]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 21 - [11:20], [12:45], [34:44], [36:02], [36:06], [36:17], [36:24], [36:31], [36:36], [36:45]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 23 - [11:30], [24:16], [34:37], [38:06]
Darth Bane: Rule of Two - Chapter 24 - [11:34]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Prologue - [22:57]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 3 - [22:57], [23:26], [25:25]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 7 - [32:43]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 10 - [12:03], [12:27], [12:31], [14:37], [14:56], [24:02], [33:49], [34:29], [34:34], [37:16], [37:23], [37:27]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 11 - [11:42]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 21 - [37:48]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 25 - [37:55], [37:59]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 26 - [12:14], [12:36], [13:43], [15:14], [15:23], [15:29], [15:38], [15:44], [24:45], [24:52], [38:19], [38:23], [38:28], [39:11]
Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil - Chapter 27 - [15:54]
Tales of the Jedi: Dark Lords of the Sith, Issue #1 - [03:30]
Power of the Jedi Sourcebook - Chapter 6: Jedi Traditions - The Ancient Masters - Vodo-Siosk Baas: Watchman of Dantooine, Pg 102 - [03:56], [05:12], [05:59], [27:44]
Jedi Academy Training Manual - Chapter V: Instructors & Alumni - Instructors of the Force - Vodo-Siosk Baas, Pg 111 - [05:12], [06:23], [20:47], [21:41], [28:04], [29:06]
Book of Sith - Rule of Two - Dark Side Combat - Memory Walk, Pg 94 - [11:56]
Power of the Jedi Sourcebook - Chapter 5: Creatures and Archetypes - New Species - Krevaaki, Pg 68 - [20:16], [20:36], [21:34], [29:10]
Knight Errant - Chapter Eleven - [20:59]
The Jedi Path - Part IV: Jedi Knight - Jedi Guardian, Pg 114 - [21:31]
The Jedi Path - Part IV: Jedi Knight - Jedi Guardian - Exotic Weapons Specialist, Pg 119 - [27:51]
The Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology - Melee Weapons - Exar Kun's Lightsaber, Pg 58-59 - [30:21], [39:47], [40:14]
The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia - Volume I, A-G - Bane's Heart, Pg 58 - [32:25]
The Story of General Grievous: Lord of War - Comrades - N-K Necrosis - [32:53]
Jedi Academy Training Manual - Chapter I: The Power of the Force - Lightsaber Form Powers - Circle of Shelter, Pg 29 - [38:45]
The Jedi Path - Part III: Padawan - Lightsabers: Their Construction and Use - Form III Lightsaber Combat: Soresu, Pg 69 - [38:54]
Man you should have titled this "Giant Talking Crab vs. Supermodel Athlete" that would have been great.
Or Mr Krabs vs. lol
Welcome back, Jen. We missed you, you insane bastard.
Is it me, or all of the older videos have disabled comments? 🤨
This was a treat friend. Glad it turned out so well. :)
god, sitting up past midnight watching Jen videos. feels like i'm in high school again. not the worst sorta nostalgia to feel tho
BRANG BOOOWLEEEEYAAAAT CLUUUUWWWWB BAAAAAYAAAAACK
I always felt that Zannah never realized her full potential until after she bested Bane, and in training Cognus, would've realized her own weaknesses and improved herself, allowing herself to be a better teacher to Cognus, as well as a greater obstacle for Cognus to overcome, so that when she did overcome Zannah, it prove her to be that much stronger and ultimately continue the Rule of Two.
While I do agree with you, sadly, we'll never know for sure.
Now, I would love to see this.
Cognus is actually the perfect person to eventually kill and surpass Zannah, because she can interfere with Force users, and Zannah’s main attack is Force-based.
the second Zannah isn't dominating in force powers you know where its going....
frigging amazing vid as always though dude :)
The video I didn't know I wanted.
It's nice to see the perspective of Vodo-Siosk Baas being a powerful Jedi Master, instead of just the greatest Jedi defeated by Exar Kun. Helps give more weight to both Baas and his fallen student.
Evannova95 & Jensaaari1 back to back, thank you, may the force be with all
Not too shabby, dude. My initial verdict was that Zannah would win through Sith sorcery, but after going through the Force section, I could see how much experience Vodo has had with such methods. Constant vigilance is his stock in trade.
And like Darth Tyranus said, _"It is obvious that this contest cannot be decided by our knowledge of the Force... but by our skills with a lightsaber."_
He darth you have been here for a couple years now same as me zaanah would kill bass he cant use force powers cause she is to strong and concealed as a jedi djem so wont work ataru wont work either and niman is next to useless makashi is bass last resort and he will be exhausted at that point. And he really cant deal with a saber staff master soresu and her force powers i think bass dies what say u?
luke green saber your grammar needs some work first thing first. Second zannah has never been capable of pressing an offensive advantage unless it was set harth other than that all to often she’s put on her back foot
@@devontaelafleur3841 And also, her spell of fear affects would do jack shit to baas, given that baas is the very Jedi that the spell would utterly fail to dominate. It brings up the innermost fears of the opponent, and baas has none of that. It would only affect certain jedi individuals who were incapable of moving beyond that fear and realizing that its just a vision, such as othone, hearth, and anakin, unfortunately
Safest drinking game in the world: take a shot every time Darth Zannah wins a VS match.
Let's see... 3, maybe 4 times? Galen Marek, Darth Talon, Asajj Ventress (twice), and... uh, that python Jedi with long fingernails (can't remember if she won that).
Whoa!!!! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Back-up!!!!
Exar-kun vs. Darth Bane!!!
FINALLY!!!!!! Can you share a ball-park of when that will be uploaded!
Still waiting for this matchup. Still though, I'm curious why Kun felt it necessary to defeat baas in a saber duel a second time when he could have just used lightning
@@TTTTCJGKS cause I guess kun isn't as proficient as other users of lightning like krayt or sidious. Even then kun at that point should be more than powerful enough to take out the likes of his former master in the force not to mention it seems like kind kind of his go to, those he had already defeated in lightsaber combat before he will simply use the force in a round 2 match. The only exception I can think of is that baas is his former master not just to the force but by martial arts training with the lightsaber and would want to use both his increased skill and his stupid saberstaff to take out baas, either that or baas in terms of force defense is alot stronger than we think.
Kun wins. Bane is sub Thon.
@@thearchiveofthedarklords2771 It could actually be hit-or-miss. Kun was, to paraphrase Jensaarai1, a prodigy who took shortcuts, both with his martial-skill and Force-Abilities. Darth Bane never did that and he studied every branch of the Force possible meaning he has a large amount of depth and power than Kun would pull out, or he would recognize Kun's amulets and artefacts and work to counter them.
Plus, Darth Bane was very different from Jedi or Sith prior to Exar Kun. From this video, most of the Sith prior to the Great Galactic War or from Revan and Malak's time were sorcorers and alchemists while the jedi focus on martial power or utility skills. Bane was an extremely elemental Force-wielder and applied his power more directly and with a lethal flare nobody Kun encountered would use.
On top of that, Bane is not somebody I would see falling to a cheap-shot. Even against Kas'im, when he was "staggering back, floundering with the desperation of a drowning man," Bane still survived and defended himself from Jar'kai while multi-tasking, gathering the energy for a Force-wave powerful enough to level a building. If Kun wounds Darth Bane or sends him on his backfoot the Sithari is only going to grow more dangerous:
-Rakatan world=press Bane back with a surprise, he dropped the house over Kas'im's head.
-Tython=Bane's hand was cut by a lightsaber, and he sent all the Jedi flying.
-Ambria=Zannah's tendrill took him arm off, Bane replied with Essence-transfer.
Kun does have his own advantages, but Bane has the depth, power and habits unlike anybody Kun faced. It's a tough call.
@@geoffreyedgson7875 Nice but he still scales below Thon who is Kun's inferior.
Satele Shan vs Darth Zannah. I have wanted this match for so freakin long
Ooh, that's a good one. Pretty tough to call too.
@Emperor Vowrawn why does being the grandmaster prove that she's better. Why is she a better duelist
In the thumbnail, Darth Zannah looks like one of the Olsen twins.
Well that's something I'm not gonna unsee. XD
Are you saying zannah is scarlet witch
Omg I see it!
A long time ago in a galaxy far far away Evannova95 had the idea of Vodo-Siosk Baas vs Darth Zannah. Unfortunately, this never happened. Fortunately, A New Hope named Jensarrai1 took up the project and finally delivered it.
Going into this, Im leaning on Bass for this. For force abilities, his will power and skill is battlemind is a hard counter to mental manipulation based Sith Sorcery which Zannah relied on. Throw in the possibility of Sever Force Hax for Bass and this seems like he gets an edge there. For martial arts skill, Baas's greater skill, use of binding techniques, and body shots seem perfect to disrupt the rhythm of Zannah's form 3. There is a chance of Zannah winning a war of attrition thanks to Baas being older than dirt though but it seems like Baas has the right package for the job.
Im so sad Im day late to commentating but I was at Pokemon VGC all day yesterday. Oh well. Onto the video!
2:05 Wait a minute, the thing I actually said above was true?
2:15 So...when is Exar Kun vs Darth Bane coming out?
5:30 He lacks the force defenses but his staff is made of wood which is an electrical insulator. Cant he block lightning with his staff?
8:10 Hmm. My idea with sever force is that the more powerful a darksider to sever, the more concentration and power is needed. Considering Kun's power, sever force could take to much time to use. Or, Baas's own power in the force was insufficient to pull it off.
13:55 Zannah is such an oddball to me as a force user. Her utility skills were based around subtly and manipulation but her competitive abilities were pretty blunt. Blast you apart with tk, mindrape, etc. She is also Sith sorcerer who lacks lightning. This is something I think is due to Bane's own personal failings as a teacher. Lack of skill with sorcery to help maximize Zannah's development and keeping knowledge of lightning away from her to ensure he always had a one up on her similar to Dooku and Ventress.
20:55 On the one hand, good for Baas to rise up and deal with persecution. On the other hand, gross.
21:50 I like the comparison but the main difference between Baas's species and Grievous is their performance levels. Greivous has superhuman levels of strength and reflexes that are at least light speed. Members of Baas's species do not. Also, Baas is older than dirt.
25:40 Omg Im dying from this comparison.
39:44 again, another issue I think is somewhat due to bane poor skill as an instructor.
42:15 this is what I was thinking when I first saw this matchup. Glad to see this dynamic addressed.
44:00 On the one hand, my prediction was correct! Yay! On the other hand, I think you failed to address the possibility of Zannah winning by attrition.
Also, I read your video description. That sourcing is beautiful.
Edit: Thank you so much for the heart Jensarrai1!
@@Jensaarai1 I can't. Sword and Shield has no national dex!
I could see Elizabeth Olson as Darth Zannah
*Thumbs up while sitting in front of the computer*
*But before he could unleash it he was hit by a wall of thunderous force rolling out from a corridor to his left. Instinctively he threw up a defensive shield, absorbing the blow. Despite this, he was slammed against the opposite wall, knocking the breath from his lungs. Lucia was not so fortunate. Unable to call upon the Force to protect herself, she was sent careering down the corridor, flipping and twisting. Her skull smashed against the stone half a dozen times as her body ricocheted off the walls and ceiling, reducing it to a bloody, misshapen mess. Her corpse finally tumbled to a stop thirty meters away where the hall made an abrupt ninety-degree turn.
*
Source: Darth Bane: Dynasty of Evil
"Zannah can't use TK offensively"
You sure about that Jen?
@@Jensaarai1 Because she didn't need telekinesis or even Sith Sorcery against Set Harth, she spent the entire fight toying with him, and only used a watered down version of her sorcery on him to test his willpower.
All that shows is that she uses telekinesis against non-Force-sensitives who can't defend themselves from it at all. As an adult she's NEVER used it offensively against enemy Jedi/Sith in straight-up combat. There's nothing to indicate she could get through a trained Jedi's Force-shields, nor is there any reason she'd even try since it's not her M.O.
@@Wright805 "All that shows is that she uses telekinesis against non-Force-sensitives"
through it's effect it also shows that she has solid power in general, plus it also still had a heavy effect on Bane even though he had tried to defend, Bane easily ripped out a durasteel door moments before, even weakened he was still clearly way above avergae
"There's nothing to indicate she could get through a trained Jedi's Force-shields,"
It is not debateable that she could tear through the force shields of the vast majority of jedi like paper, Bane could easily crush an accommplished master like Quordis decades before his prime, even if Rain was not as good on offense as defense her being relative at all means her telekinesis can deal with lesser jedi and when she was a child she could already kill normal people, Bane thought she was a master that completed her training so she was obviously way stronger
telekinesis is one power, some moves might be more practiced and proficient than others but if you can defend against the strongest sith of the era toppeling jedi or sithn in general is childsplay
", nor is there any reason she'd even try since it's not her M.O."
if her other tricks would not work, it is an obvious option to try out, literally every person would think of it
@@Jensaarai1 Zannah being accustomed with Bane does not mean her combat tendencies will carry over to other opponents. For starters, Bane and Zannah knew TK would be of no use against each other
*There was also his incredible command of the Force to contend with. Simple tactics like pushing an opponent from across the room were impractical against any foe with proper training. Both she and Bane knew how to surround themselves with an invisible field of energy that absorbed or repelled the most basic tricks taught to any Jedi or Sith.*
- Dynasty of Evil
If anything the fact that DoE Zannah used TK against everyone *but* Bane shows that it's simply a case of Zannah knowing Bane would counter it and had practiced doing so against her specifically
In terms of what her output would be? Well that pretty simple: Equal to Bane
*Zannah was smart and cunning, and her powers in the dark side might be even greater than his own.
*
- Dynasty of Evil
*"The future of the Sith is precariously balanced between Zannah and myself," Bane explained. "Whoever survives our confrontation will control the destiny of the Sith, but our strength is too evenly matched for you to foresee the outcome."*
- Dynasty of Evil
Bane's TK feats speak for themselves. Based on this alone Zannah will flatten Baas. Whose only TK feats are basic disarms.
Man, these videos are fantastic. You've helped me grow my interest with power-scaling and versus debates, sharpened my skills and all - Hell, if it weren't for these videos, I probably wouldn't even be A Versus Debater. I've been sharing your opinions and how you debate for years even prior to my account's creation, and I do think others I know have been influenced in similar and also good manners.
Yes i have as well
Voda Baas buck naked bursting in to the workshop like "let's make some sabers gang!
This video is such a profound improvement on the editing quality! It was a joy to watch and not simply listen to while I'm off doing something else. Good job!
What about Jax Pavan (Coruscant Nights) vs Rosh from Jedi Academy
AzureAmaterasu good point. I agree that rosh might be underpowered compared to Jax but I think their close enough but mostly I picked them because they aren’t talked about enough in my opinion
@Emperor Vowrawn which kanan though? Season 1-2 kanan or season 3 blind kanan?
Do you know when the next Fanalysis video will be?
Haven't even watched the video yet... but just saw your description, and damn... that is how a muthafucker sources! XD
Props!
Yes! More legends content. Infinitely better than Disney garbage.
"Jedi puts himself in place where he defend the greatest number of people from the greatest evil. " Corran Horn
" The Emporer would have considered you a sentimental fool who deserved to die."
Mara Jade
" I'll remember that the next time I dance on his grave."
Corran Horn
Sorry for the spelling
This is a gnarly matchup, good to have you back my friend
It's nice having you back
Hey, Jen glad to have you back, thanks for another awesome video.
Think we might see either a Exar-Kun vs Darth Kryate or a Shaak-ti vs Darth Malak vids?
Lord Jensaarai I’m so happy to see another versus video so soon! Also, any news on when Fanalysis is posting? I think Antoine, Grey, and Reti are working on some books and I was just curious when you all might get back into the swing of Legends Archives.
Good to see your work again, Jen! All the best.
Excellent video, as always.
An excellent video per the course.
Yep, still love these.
Excellent breakdown
Zannah is unironically one of my favorite fictional characters of all time.
It's very nice how you use the background video to illustrate fighting moves.
This was a very well done video and one that I enjoyed quite a bit. Concise, detailed and meat heavy with constructive points and proof to back the information. Glad to see that you are back and I look forward to more projects. This was amazing!
15:44 So Bane's last resort was attempting to become a trap. Nice.
Kinda knew Vodo was winning this one when I saw it drop. I still liked it though. Still looking forward to the Exar Kun v.s Darth Bane. Also...just curious who you think would win between Exar Kun and Darth Malgus...I have my reasons for asking (I'm uncertain if anyone has even done that one before)...
@@Jensaarai1 Looking forward to this.
Glad you're back jen
.. missed your videos bro.. I always enjoyed the versus series
Yes!!!!! Another Jensaarai video.
22:09 thanks, now I want to see Ben Kenobi vs Vodo
Meetra Surik vs. Vader would be an INSANELY good duel, btw😁
Nyriss had Meetra and Scourge on the ropes, Vader is too strong for her
Umor Are you sure? She defeated Sion, Nihilus, and Traya, all three very strong.
and I’d expect Vader to fight more like Sion than Nyriss
@@starwarzchik112 Yes, Vader would effortlessly win
Nihilus only lost due to Meetra being a wound in the force meaning his force drain fired back on him, it is like saying Kryptonie Man is stronger than Superman and even then she had help, for the same reason Traya could not use Force Drain on her and Traya also had a soft spot for her
the developers have said that Traya and Meetra would loose a 2v1 against Revan and in the novel it was made clear that she is as strong as Scourge, before he reached his prime, Nyriss basically overpoweredtwo Meetras, before getting easily one-shot by a previously drugged Revan, I think Revan is superior to Vader but even so Meetra
God I have missed you and your videos.
Keep it up my friend enjoyed this very much I would love to see corran horn vs Darth wyyrlok
A martial arts expert who is specialized in fighting Sith Sorcerers and Martial Artists with basic fighting styles vs. a Sith Sorceress who uses her weapon as a tool to buy her time until the right moment has come by using a very basic fighting style.
Hmm... I'm curios who will win this!
I've been looking forward to this
Good job on the video, might I suggest Kao cen darach vs Cade Skywalker? A reversal of your malgus vs krayt match. Since you said malgus and Krayt had fought each others fighter type before in those two, how would their fight go in comparison.
Cade murks Darach with little difficulty between his various Force powers and augmentation. Kao might be able to block a few hits but he isn't lasting long.
Who would be a good match up for cade?
@@Harumidomori Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade Skywalker, either of the Solo twins, Kyp Durron, Anakin Skywalker, Count Dooku, Darth Bane are all pretty solid choices against Cade IMHO.
@@Harumidomori Jerec, Galen Marek, Starkiller Clone, Dark Empire Luke and tier 2 combatants
@@TrajGreekFire Agreed, though I think Marek/Starkiller can't quite hang with Cade he'd give him a pretty good fight. Jerec's Force Destruction hax might be powerful enough to deal with Cade's Shatterpoint/Dark Transfer, as he doesn't need to be within hand-to-hand range to really make use of it.
Great video as always can't really argue with outcome since just finished the band trilogy but the idea of a Darth Bane vs Exar Kun I think will be great to see if banes obelisk armour could help win a duel against kuns tactical skill with lightsaber or if kuns amulet will overpower bane
Has anyone done a Darth Vader vs Darth Bane vs Darth Malgus?
Vader likely comes out on top in that, but it'd be a brutal fight to watch.
@@wristofkings eh I say either malgus or bane, mainly cause of their force abilities giving them an edge over vader. In a pure lightsaber battle though, probably vader.
@@gundamfan7541 I think if Bane and Malgus both focus on Vader, they can take him out of the fight early using a barrage of Force lightning to fry his cybernetics. But Vader is smart enough tactically to draw the fight out and exploit any openings in the melee to his advantage with TK and possibly even mental manipulation. Bane is smart but his methods are pretty direct, and Malgus tends to suffer from tunnel vision in battle. Once the other juggernauts are battered and damaged Vader can swoop in and start laying waste.
@@wristofkings interesting interpretation, heck I even think of it that way too. Except with someone like bane and magus, underestimating them would mean death, while banes method of fighting is straightforward and techniques being textbook, if theyre executed properly theyre still going to be a problem to contend with. As for magus tunnel vision.....yeah ive got nothing for that, his skilled and talented but should his tunnel vision take effect when clashing with either vader or bane, either one is gonna take that opportunity. That said I still see as a close fight for vader, one slip up on his part can be fatal when fighting the other two sith.
I'm planning to do a versus video of Gorc and Pic vs Toki Tollivar and The Fifth Brother.
Have you accomplished this task yet?
@@TheFilthyFinch Still a work in progress. I've got a lot of projects in the work.
You are really good at this
Excellent breakdown as always.
He’s back! Woot!
I think Zannah has this one in the bag
Exar Kun vs Darth Bane would certainly be an interesting match. However, another matchup I would like to see is Exar Kun vs Darth Krayt due to them being former Jedi - turned Sith Lords that were also masters of the Niman/Jar’kai lightsaber form.
Still waiting for that vid on lightsaber Marks of Contact!!!
Hooray for the ole crab guy!
Happy Baas noises
would like to see Master Thon in one of these videos he was always my favorite from the time of exar kun.
It’s late but I really do think that at least some time should have been given to the idea that Zannah would attrition the old man down to score a win, kinda of the opposite of Vader vs Old Ben in that way.
I will concede that it's a possibility, but I still see it as extremely unlikely. Zannah's technique is just too textbook, and she's not capable of physically pressuring Baas the way Exar Kun could.
@@Jensaarai1 That’s true. She’s not nearly strong enough to apply that pressure. But I to would argue Baas is not applying the pressure Bane did in Zannah. At 38:21 you showed on screen a passage from the final fight between Bane and Zannah that details despite the fact that Darth Bane used an unusual and unknown sequence, the fact that she was tripped up by the graves and still being hammered by Bane whilst lying on her back, she still managed to block his assault. Let’s say her technique was “textbook” that in my opinion should be a level of defense that would force Baas to work a lot harder to break than Bane did, and I doubt you would credit Baas with having a comparable ability to pressure opponents with the lightsaber (or quarterstaff) as Bane did.
You should do a verses video using Mother Talzin
Nice to see you again, keep it up.
I wish there was more material on Set Harth i'd love to see him in a vs. video
THIS IS GONNA BE GOOD BOYS!
Finally! Welcome back!
Glad to see you back. You were well missed. But, on to my comments. Vodo-Siosk Baas uses a quarterstaff is proves that he has the same mentality of that of a Shaolin Monk or one trained in Aikido. The Idea is to hurt and not kill. This not to say if pushed he will not use a lightsaber. Also, bear in mind Vodo-Siosk Baas can probably apply quarter-staff techniques to Double-bladed lightsaber.
New ideas for a Darth Zannah post mortem Partner! Arryn Leneer. Celeste Morne. Sylvar. Darth Marr. Depa Billaba. Lucien Draay. Inquisitor Jerec. Tholme.( I really like this one because they’ve had a previous match up) Darth Adrass. Kit Fisto. Ki Audi Mundi. Agen Kolar. Antares Draco. Darth Venamis. Ulic Qel Droma. And Padawan Anakin Skywalker.
Good video, looking forword to Exar kun vs Darth Bane, could Ki-Adi Mundi vs Saesee Tiin work?
"comparing the giant talking crab vs the supermodel athlete" Nice
I heavily disagreed with your Zannah vs Qui-Gon and especially Zannah vs Tholme videos, but this is a a much more fair and comprehensive breakdown of Zannah and very visually impressive to boot, plus you are giving Vodo his due as well, although I still think Zannah would win, it is a understandable and pretty reasonable difference in opinion.
Her greater youth and her lack of need to use Force Weapon all the time makes her more sustainable and given just how tremendous Bane's willpower feats were and that Vodo does have a lot of regret and disappointment for story reasons, I think her spells of madness working is signifcantly more likely than Vodo's force abilities affecting the outcome. I would not rule out an offensive use of telekinesis either, while during the Bane fights she was either forced or tricked into saber combat or trying to get a spell off if she found them uneffective she would not hesitate to bust out the tk which can also be seen by her first attack against Bane in their first duel in Dynasty of Evil. It is hard to gage how effective it would be against Vodo though given how rarely real telekinesis feats are shown in the Tales, but Bane scaling is still a pretty huge factor in Zannahs favor.
Max Mustermann ya this is so far the fairest jensaarai has been with zannah
What about a match up between Darth Malgus and Ulic Qel-Droma?
Malgus, though it's close.
Hey Jensaarai1, first, welcome back to UA-cam, second, *what are your thoughts on the 501st Legion's artist (Marietta) getting attacked and harassed on Twitter by Geeks and Gamers' followers (and other Fandom Menace people) simply because she politely asked G+G's artist to not ripoff the 501st's logo, and after that she got viciously attacked by the FM, to the point that she deleted the whole thread to stop the conversation from going on, but she still got harassed, and it lead to Marietta getting a heart attack and is now hospitalized?*
I myself think it is disgusting that the FM did this and take no responsibility at all for what they did. And to think that the Fandom Menace is the same movement that is trying to affiliate itself with the EU movement through Ryan Kinel (RK Outpost) as well as the Twin Suns Foundation, it disgusts me, especially after this situation with Marietta happened (as well as the FM shitting on the EU movement and claiming SW Marvel #108 was fake news 4 months ago on a livestream).
Hey jen, great vid as always. I do love these star wars matchups, but have you ever thought of expanding your matchups beyond star wars??? It's just a thought but i personally think it would be really cool to see how the big bad vader could compare against someone like sephiroth from ff7. Anyways, however ur videos progress in the future they're amazing and there's no doubt about that👍.
Zannah should have had both Niman and Force Lightening as her offensive aspect to her skillset
I just read the book and the lake you say Zanna drew energy from was not able to be drawn apon bane noted that he could not draw on the darkside energies of the lake so I'm to assume that zanna can use that ability at will albeit with great effort
So if obi wan and darth zannah fought each other in a duel would they just stale mate each other indefinitely
Nah, Kenobi is still an expert in Ataru (probably comparable to his master Qui-Gon) along with intermediate/advanced skill in Shii-Cho, Niman and probably Shien as well. All Zannah has is Soresu.
wristofkings but it’s very arguable while Kenobi wasn’t just a defensive specialist it’s very unlikely he could apply his offensive skills and penetrate zannahs defense and while zannah couldn’t offensively counter Kenobi I don’t think obi wans offense is strong enough to break through her guard
Jensaarai1 it’s very unlikely that Obi wan can put up an offensive to break zannahs guard she withstood banes djem so onslaught during there final duel
Great video like always! but I find it interesting how zannah's fight with bane is always discussed like she was the only fighter to have been boosted by the nexus, it would have enhanced all of banes darkside abilities too wouldn't it (including filling his with rage and making him stronger with his blades and in the force)? yet its only ever discussed as if she need it to win and never looked at that even with a darkside nexus boost bane (a way more dangerous duelist than vodo) couldn't end her with saber or force powers. And if a darkside enhanced bane couldn't shut down her force powers or cut her down with his saber i dont see how vodo would manage it, especially as she can use her sorcerer powers during a saber fight and since she also has a stamina advantage i dont see her getting tired out by vodo something i don't remember kun doing in their fights. I gotta disagree that vodo has more in his box as he was killed due to his stick breaking and him being other wise defenseless against kuns saber, he didnt even try to force push him or use any force power so i dont see why you think he would bew able to shut zannah down with his force powers. And even when they did fight he was pretty much overwhelmed by kuns one blade and then cut down immediately after he pulls out the second blade he doesnt need to change blade length or anything to overwhelm him so I don't see why zannah wouldn't be able to copy that feat.
Well said well put.
Zannah was put on her back foot and he broke her ribs
@@devontaelafleur3841 and then she killed him...
Darth Chingaso after he lashed out with esscene transfer and repelling her spells. Let’s not make zannah a superhero
@@devontaelafleur3841 But Darth Bane, the guy who failed to over power her in the force and take over her body and who was killed by her spells is? Sorry that argument makes no sense to me, shes clearly a bad ass or bane would have killed her instead of being killed by her its not like his force powers weren't equally boosted in that fight. Its like arguing bane is weaker than kas'im since he had to use his force powers to beat him in their duel...
Thanks Jen!
As always Zannah's sorcery is deliberately underrated. EVERYONE INCLUDING JEDI MASTERS have inner demons and fears. They would not be immune to her sorcery and her dark force tendrils are just a hint of what she may have developed after Dynasty of Evil ended.Time to accept this simple truth about psyches and give her way more respect.
Even if they're not immune Jedi still have means of countering/dispelling illusions through applied Battle Meditation, Battle Mind, etc. Hell, Bane by all accounts was able to just power through her illusions through force of will without any such techniques, though he did struggle to do so.
Vodo as a user of Battle Meditation in an era where Sith sorcery was particularly commonplace would be well primed for dealing with Zannah's spells, even if they were more powerful than most. Even in later eras it's a method that's better suited for subduing Sith and Dark Jedi (who are more likely to have less discipline and way more psychological baggage) while relatively unreliable against any Jedi above your average Knights and Padawans.
@@wristofkings Except, Bane, who studied her sorcery a lot in preparation, says willpower is the ONLY counter against her sorcery, and almost no Jedi has Bane's level of willpower.
This idea that any Jedi master can shrug off her sorcery is absolute nonsense.
Still looking forward to the bass vs Darach post mortem.
Good to know. I look forward to watching more videos.
Just taking a shot in the dark, but I’d love to see a post mortem about Quinlan Vos, Antares Draco, Lucien Draay, Kit Fisto, or Jaden Korr. ( and I know you might not want to since evanova already did Quigon Jinn, but I wouldn’t complain. He’s one of my favs. ) Darth Marr and Darth sion are also awesome. Realize you’ll do what you wanna do, but I figured I throw a hat or two in the ring.
Xanatos , Jaden Korr, Kit Fisto and Darth Malgus could work.
Hours of sleep lost to time... time to watch
1st) Zannah telekinetic push is strong enough to push through a force shield Bane put up and mangling a human body.
2) Even if Zannahs and Baasks force specific abilities cancel each other out Zannah owns as a lightsaber duelist. Zannah fought 2 Jedi Knights while they were enhanced by battle meditation. The only way to beat Zannah in a duel is to break her sequence with overwhelming strength and speed. But that's situational because the only 2 who did were Bane in his Orbelisk Armor and the Sarro Xaj who was physically bigger than Bane and enhanced by battle meditation. When Xaj lost his enhancement Zannah dispatched him quickly and when Bane was out of his armor during the final duel on Ambria it was Zannah falling that broke her sequence. Theres even more context to the Xaj fight seeing as Zannah wasnt actually applying herself because she was waiting for and watching Bane while dueling both Jedi. Baask on the other hand was quickly overwhelmed by Exar Kun back when he was still a Jedi and not amped and then later when Exar gained his amulet and Dual bladed saber he overwhelmed Baask with flurries and strength. Zanna also uses a dual bladed lightsaber and has better grip seeing as her hilt is longer than Exar Kuns lightsaber.
3)Zannahs madness spell was. Broken because if the force push Bane let out he was still crippled by the spell and Bane was fully expecting it. I'm tired of Sith magic getting crapped on because it's easy to break in video games. Zannah is just as powerful if not more so than Bane in the force as stated by Bane and Cognus.
Zannah only beat xaj because of a distraction and in the beginning after johun othone left to help raskta he easily manhandled zannah. as he put her in the corner for a killing strike the battle meditation was interrupted distracting him allowing Zannah to strike him down
Why does this prove Vodo
@@idiot3412 it doesnt
@@josephmoore5422 then what's the point?
@@devontaelafleur3841 Except Xaj was getting a constant amp, he was a knight and trained under the Jedi Weapons Master. Who fought an 18 year old Zannah who ALSO got distracted in her dual.
From what I get , both Bass and Zannah are over specialized and slaves to their own focuses, and weaknesses. They could have been respectively so much more as characters. At least Zannah could have taken form 3 to it's highest expression with form 4 for a more complete and domineering package. Vass should have simply fought with a light saber. Anyway thanks for the video, you absolutely rock Jensaarri.
I'm curious, Jen, what your thoughts are on that one source that says Vodo-Siosk Baas and Odan-Urr were essentially respectively the Mace Windu and Yoda of their era? Do you for example just interpret that to mean in terms of position and repute within the Jedi Order, or do you think it extends it all into something of a loose comparison of skill and/or power between the two sets of Jedi?
Vodo-Siosk Baas: the character Chirruit could've become had he not been killed off stupidly in the movie that introduced him.
What is the image at 16:06? I’ve never seen it before and it clearly look like Bane. The image looks like something that would come from one of The New Essential Guides. Perhaps The New Essential Chronology as I have never read that one.
Also everyone knows Vodo is a lobster, no crab. www.reddit.com/r/LegendsMemes/comments/cjlatz/i_agree_with_the_comments_for_this_one_such_an/?
Totally wasn't expecting this matchup, and I love the thematic tie-in it has with Kun vs Bane (can't wait for that one). Overall I think this verdict is fair given the era Vodo lived in and better acknowledges Zannah's level of power (even if overspecialized) than some matches from the Versus community in the past. Would you say that Zannah's capability in hand-to-hand combat points to some Form IV in her style as well, or was it just a supplemental skill picked up somewhere else?
wristofkings If she had form 4 offense wouldn’t be a problem for her.
Darth Vader and Darth Maul vs Palpatine. ( neither has a chance on their own but if they actually used team work there’s a chance. Antares Draco and Lucien Draay vs Quinlan Vos and Jaden Korr.( the dual of the Mavericks ) Darth Marr vs Darth Jadus. ( the dark councilors )Antares Draco vs Xanatos . Anoon Bondarra vs Cay Qel Droma. Xanatos vs Kanan Jarrus. Antares Draco vs Darth Azzard. Darth Havok vs Rahm Kota. Wolf Sazen vs Quinlan Vos. Darth Wredd vs Savage Opress. Asajj ventress vs Ashoka Tano( rebels) vs Galen Marek.( the battle of the renegade apprenticeships)
Vodo reminds me of Mad-Eye Moody from Harry Potter.
Okay man, I am with you on the lightsaber side of the match up, but the bit about the sorcerery is... well... I don't want to sound like some rude guy pointing out the obvious but Zannah comes from an era that is approximately 2000 years ahead of bosk so it is a safe bet that the sorcerery she learnt is more advanced than what Bosk trained for, even if its in principle partly the same, and there is little source material to confirm that she's used anything specific that bosk hasn't trained for. What's more she had a will that was stronger than Darth Bane's, not to sound biased or rude, but it is pretty obvious that her strength at sith sorcerery is going to best bosk because if she has a strong enough will to best a frankly astonishingly strong willed Bane, Bosk has pretty much no real chance. Lightsaber fighting needs speed, accuracy, technical sophistication and power, but from what I gather about sorcerery all that is needed is force sensitivity, understanding of how it works and a strong enough will. It's true that many sith have used amulets, elaborate rituals and stuff like that to give their sorcerery powers boosts, but ultimately the strong will factor is by far the most important thing for most sith sorcerery, especially considering the dark side degradation caused by it. That Zannah displays no more than yellow eyes despite clearly being super strong in the dark side, speaks of her force mastery through sheer force of psychological will. No offense to Bosk but I am having a hard time picturing him beating someone psychologically tougher than Zannah in terms of force sensitivity. He could best her under certain conditions yes, but I doubt he'd effectively defend against her sorcerery mastery.
Sorry I meant to say Baas, but I somehow misheard your pronounciation of the name and got confused as to how it's spelt, my bad lol.
Thank you alot there is alot of people that dont know how power ful she is and how good her lightsaber tekneek is again heavily underestimated as a whole. You r spot on sir.
Maybe I didn’t hear it but what form did vodo-siosk use
Zannah vs An’yo Kuro
Personally, I think Zannah should have studied Niman, with Jar'Kai integrated with force attacks being her main focus.
So is it true that when a with beats there master they asorb there power if so would darth cognus for sure beat bane
Zannah is evil-Taylor-swift 😍🤣💯
So, how many losses does zannah have now? I don't think in all the years the fanalysis group has done these videos that zannah has ever won a match (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). That said, what kind of opponent do you think she can win against?
@CrystalFire7
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I think she would win most of the match-ups they put her in. Her abilities are grossly underestimated.
@@Emperordmb is she really though? I mean I'm not much impressed by her
@@loyalcompanion21041. Because Bane overcame Zannah's sorcery, partially due to him having overcome his past trauma, it's just presumed by the Forcecast that almost anyone whose psychologically stable and not seriously traumatized can overcome her sorcery. What that perspective fails to consider is that willpower is the key component to overcoming Zannah's sorcery, and the demonstrated willpower of Darth Bane is greater than the vast majority of Star Wars characters, outstripping that of Vodo Siosk Baas, Shaak Ti, and Lumiya by a pretty hefty amount. It also fails to take into account that Bane knew to expect such an attack from Zannah, and thus was able to brace himself for it, which is not something that would hold true for someone unfamiliar with Zannah's powerset.
2. It is presumed that because Zannah is inferior to Bane in martial combat that she sucks in this area and that virtually any master swordsman would undoubtedly overcome her, and that Zannah sucks tactically because Bane was able to outthink her. This too is false as it presumes all master swordsman are on roughly the same level. Consider that Bane two decades before Dynasty of Evil managed to overwhelm the defenses of Kas'im (before he switched to Jar'kai), at the time the greatest swordsman in the galaxy who had perfected every move and sequence of lightsber combat, and since then Bane has grown a lot more skilled, a lot more powerful, and significantly faster. Also consider that Bane's fighting style in Dynasty of Evil was noted to be a lot more complex and unpredictable than his fighting style in Rule of Two, where he was able to use trickery to pierce the defensive guard of Raskta Lsu (the greatest duelist in the Jedi Order, of a race known for being skilled at predicting the moves of their opponents, with her skills and abilities augmented by battle meditation). So the defensive ability Zannah demonstrated against Bane is significantly greater than that of two absolute master swordsman against two previous versions of Bane who were not as fast, skilled, or unpredictable as he was in his final duel with Zannah.
In conclusion, I am seriously unconvinced that Vodo Siosk Baas can mount a combative offensive approaching the level of Bane's, or that he has sufficient mental fortitude to overcome her sorcery when, unlike Bane, he won't be expecting it.
@@Emperordmb Not sure if I fully agree with your assessment. Don't get me wrong, Zannah is pretty decent and I have no doubt she could perhaps defeat Vodo but I have some qualms. Firstly Bane as of Dynasty of Evil is no where near as good as his Orbalisk incarnation from Rule of Two. It is my understanding that Bane unleashed a powerful, devastating force lightning at an ithorian jedi who redirected it back at him with a powerful force shield, nearly destroying Bane completely. And ircc in the book Dynasty of Evil, he was still suffering from the effects from that encounter, not too mention he is much older than he is in Rule of Two. This leaves me to believe that he was declining physically and he was even afraid of Zannah eventually surpassing him. It's no different from say Vader losing all his power after his defeat against Kenobi or Maul after being cut in half. I believe the same happened with Bane. And Dynasty of Evil Bane can be more skilled as a lightsaber duelist compared to his Orbalisk counterpart but that doesn't mean he is a superior duelist. He can only be so good with a lightsaber at the age he is at as well as his physical condition. You could attribute this to Bane and Kas'im. Kas'im is more skilled due to his decades of training and perfecting in saber combat but Bane was clearly showcased to be the better duelist and he eventually got the better of him in the end due to his mastery of djem so. So personally I don't agree with the notion that just because Dynasty of Evil Bane is more skilled than his Orbalisk self, automatically means he is the better duelist. The way Orbalisk Bane was going to town on all those Jedi on Typhon who were empowered by Battle Meditation, showcases his mastery and leaves me in doubt that Dynasty of Evil Bane could replicate this feat due to his physical condition and age.
Jen i urge you to find a more suitable oppenent for zhannah next time. This should my closing defense 4 darth zannah. DEBUNKED. ........Zhannah wins
A long video.
Will watch it in its entirety someday soon.
In the meantime,doesn't Vodo command Sever Force?
Battle over b4 it even beggins.
As it will probably say within the video, from all indications, it's very Labour intensive. Those kinds of powers aren't really viable in combat to these guy's eyes on neutral ground. Things like Zannah's Dark Side Tendrills, Bane's Death Field, Vader's Kinetite, Plageius' Midichlorian Manipulation, whilst really powerful, either require an outside amp to actually do or are highly labour intensive. Sometimes both.
Edit: Just a pre-empt here. I'm not here for an Argument, I just know that that's what Jensaarai1 and the others have said in the past on these subjects.
Edit 2: In fact, I'm pretty sure that I remember Jensaarai1 stating that he's never been seen using the power on his own.
@@kadindarklord
Never seen using it on his own?
You must have mixed it with Wall of Light.
Wall of Light CAN'T be performed by just 1 person.
Sever Force can.
Anyways Sever Force is typically performed outside of combat.
In SWTOR videogame can be performed inside of combat,but all it does is immobilizes opponent for 2 or 3 seconds which doesn't make much if any sense... .
How taxing it is is irelevant.
Sever Force + Force Slam or throwing lightsaber at target once person is separated from the Force to ensure that that person can't kill Sever Force user with guns.
After that,a Sever Force user can take some rest via meditation to rejuvenate itself a bit if not completely.
I had an intresting versus idea I need input on if anybody wishes to chime in. Would Darth Revan VS Quinlan Vos be intresting to watch?
Revan would wipe the floor with vos based on his force abilities
@@raicattivo fair enough I was merely thinking thematically itvwould be intresting even tho it would be one sided
That ones definitely one sided on revans part. One id be curious to see them do is lucien draay vs quigon jinn.
@@revanelfkiller826 one sided match ups are just a waste of time when one character is much more stronger than the other