Well, I'm a bit late to the party... Not sure where you are in this journey, but as I'm working on a speed car, I'm definitely impressed by the results you got. Definitely a big, long worked out pack you have there. Well, I had an idea. If you can figure out what's going on exactly, can that e triggered somehow... It might not be an ESC killer, but a horribly flat graph would not only be nice, probably sell more too. Maybe even supply OEM packs too, it should surely be impressive. No need to respond if there is a slight chance of giving away any top secret info, I just thought I'd throw it your way. With numbers like that, I might skip making my own. My build is rather budget in nature... Great video, great work!
I like the look of this product and the data you have collected is useful. I guess if I had a suggestion though, you could have done the same runs them with the cap pack removed and shown us the difference, I'm also particularly interested in voltage sag, so to have been able to see that during the early acceleration phase where the most amps were drawn, that your cap pack also kept the voltage up would have been useful as well as giving you a base line for the voltage ripple comparison
So what? What do cap packs have to do with any of this? Isn't that what we're talking about here? Isn't that what you're selling? Aren't they supposed to improve the acceleration curve due to their current dump to stabilize the battery current when you floor it? I have a Venom single cap for the low voltage side of the ESC just to keep my steering from dropping out under high acceleration and it works. So, did your cap assemblies make any difference? Isn't that the point? My guess is you may be losing ripple voltage because the caps are expiring and you're going to purer line voltage from the battery directly. Or the motor finally caught up, which is more likely. All a brushless motor and it's ESC is, by its nature, is a giant ripple, created by the ESC on purpose. The ripple chases the armature all around the housing and that's what drives the motor. That much is certain. Of course the line signal has ripple. The power going to the motor comes out as a stutter, a very fast stutter, but a stutter just the same. It'll smooth up when the motor cannot take anymore power, or you let off the throttle. At that kind of sudden current dump, I can't imagine the caps would be recharging and you showed no before and after parameters. In the event of a 2 second burst, the caps would expire in about 6ms. What did your tests or charts tell us about any of that? Nothing is what. I did a series of acceleration tests on a 120 amp 5400kv brushless racing motor at 3s, which drives it to 59,000 rpms. In fact; three of them. All three ESC's were Hobbywing 120amp identicals and had two big caps themselves. I added two quad packs and an octo pack of giant caps. And frankly, I saw very little difference between the three setups, if at all. It was a pretty big disappointment. And if anything, it showed the huge throughput of the 50c Venom battery and a perfectly matched motor that won't overload the ESC. That battery by itself has a burst current rating of almost 500 amps on a 5,000 Venom. Far more than the ESC can handle, and the 365 you ran. So what are we really even talking about here? My tests only determined that the two big caps on the ESC were probably perfectly adequate for the voltage drop, if any, and Hobbywing knows a hell of a lot more about it than I do. Do you think? They know a hell of a lot more about it than you do. They never published any white papers on the subject even though they published tons of white papers and were asked repeatedly because cap packs were all the rage. That told me that not only wasn't there a real performance difference to their current setup, but there was no money in it as a result. Otherwise Hobbywing would have made their own for sale. And they didn't. (even though they were all the rage) And they didn't change their present setups at all. They make one quad pack for a specific ESC as a replacement and that's it. My tests determined as a best case scenario the caps are only being use at a full power spin up, and because of the way they're wired in, the motor only gets half, the battery gets the other half or all of it if it'll take it. From there, in about 4 - 6 milliseconds the caps expire and the line voltage takes over. And the caps recharge at that time. I was so sure, just like you are. Maybe I have the whole thing wrong, but I did an awful lot of real world testing with reliable and repeatable setups. I just realized your posts are six years old. I have no idea why UA-cam sent it to me today. But I would be interested in your thoughts if you're still around.
I would love to talk to Leo himself about his data logs.. I am wondering if anybody else out there has ever hit below zero on their Ripple like Point 1.2 or 3 below zero
What would be the overall advantage of having a cap pack on a RC? Lower esc temps? Higher top speed? Trying to learn about cap packs but struggling to understand the Positives of having one
I have an inexpensive esc that can only run up to 3s. Would one of these cap backs help extend the life of one of these esc's? the additional fans I have installed haven't solved the problem nor has cutting the body to get more air over the esc.
Well, it would be impossible for me to guarantee the same results unless you were running the exact same setup, in the exact same conditions, with the exact same driver, road, batteries, motor, car, ESC... You get the point. What I can guarantee, is highest quality product that is proven to work, and as much feedback, and support as possible.
Kill Mode RC Alright, I'll buy you 6 pack when they release. Also are you able to make your website so that customers can leave reviews? Because reviews are one of the things that make a person buy a product.
Awesome idea! I will have the designer put a review section on the site. Also, when you get your pack, send me a pic, and ill post it to the gallery. Thanks!
Thanks for the video! I just have a quick question. I just ordered my 4 pack andim going to get a 6pack. My question is on my castle xlx do I remove the existing cap packs or just solder to wires?
most ripple peaks around 50-70%, at WOT ESC is most efficient at managing power out of good batteries so the ripple goes from low to nothing. This is an achievement of your esc and battery as well, not the cap pack alone. I like the product you make, but if you gonna sell it I would suggest you dont look at ripple under WOT 100% and use that as a selling point. Looks like youre sucessfully keeping ripple under 5% for most of the run, including where it occurs at peak as youre rolling into throttle - which once again is a combination of good batteries, esc and of course capacitor pack as well. you still havent said what batteries you are using w xlx to manage this kinda low ripple.Thanks P.S. when you speak of high end audio, is that car or home audio?
I always appreciate constructive criticism as well as a good debate. With that said, allow me to point out why I disagree with your assessment. I agree, that the largest ripple spikes occur during the time building into full throttle. I even pointed that out in the video. However, those spikes do not concern me, as they usually only occur for a fraction of a second, and are not responsible for heat, power loss, and esc/internal capacitor failure. They are simply small insignificant spikes. Lets face it, nobody is burning up esc's at 50% throttle on speed runs. I also agree that the esc is most efficient at WOT 100% throttle. That being said, this is still the most important area of concern. This is when esc's fail, and this is when ripple is most important. I think it is a mistake when people only look at the "max ripple" on the log, and nothing else. That max spike could have occurred anywhere. This is evident by simply looking at Castle Creations esc's. The significant area of failure on the XL2,was capacitor failure at WOT. What did castle do to rectify this with the XLX? They simply added more capacitors. The test ESC in this log is an xl2, not an xlx. The xlx is far more effective in terms of ripple than the xl2. So to see a log with 0.00volt ripple at just over a second of 100% throttle, and to maintain that for the remainder of the run, is absolutely a testament to the effectiveness of the external cap pack. I also know this because I have done multiple test pulls without the cap pack on the same setup, and the ripple remains well above 1volt at 100% throttle. That 1volt ripple at WOT, can be a death sentence for an ESC. Now, I would never suggest that theKill Mode Cap Pack is solely responsible for all of this. That would be silly. Of course, ESC, battery, and proper tuning are critical. I simply claim that if you want the best of everything else, don't short yourself by using some junk cap pack. All components are equally critical. P.S. I use Roaring Top batteries on most of these runs. They are a good quality, inexpensive battery, and I think they are a great bargain.
I am absolutely not taking away from a cappack as an external device that does filtering and therefore even keeps the heat away from esc, even if internal ones could do a job on their own. Your cap does an excellent job of keeping ripple low (if the max is low, itll be low anywhere in the graph) and going back to WOT if its low at maximum, itll be low to nonexistent at the said power out 100% (once again as evident in your video), and was expected seeing how peak ripple is low as is. Im glad you didnt take it the wrong way, ive learned a thing or two myself from your vids
Texan Yankee definitely didn't take it the wrong way. I'm always trying to learn. Every time I learn something better, I try to figure out how I can make my product better. I want to have the best product available, so I'm always trying to improve. 🤙
Nice work!!!! RCFL Bro 👊🏼💯
Well, I'm a bit late to the party...
Not sure where you are in this journey, but as I'm working on a speed car, I'm definitely impressed by the results you got. Definitely a big, long worked out pack you have there.
Well, I had an idea. If you can figure out what's going on exactly, can that e triggered somehow...
It might not be an ESC killer, but a horribly flat graph would not only be nice, probably sell more too. Maybe even supply OEM packs too, it should surely be impressive.
No need to respond if there is a slight chance of giving away any top secret info, I just thought I'd throw it your way. With numbers like that, I might skip making my own. My build is rather budget in nature...
Great video, great work!
I like the look of this product and the data you have collected is useful. I guess if I had a suggestion though, you could have done the same runs them with the cap pack removed and shown us the difference, I'm also particularly interested in voltage sag, so to have been able to see that during the early acceleration phase where the most amps were drawn, that your cap pack also kept the voltage up would have been useful as well as giving you a base line for the voltage ripple comparison
You guys are some haters, he makes the best cap packs on the market, nice work Kill Mode RC!!!!!
So what? What do cap packs have to do with any of this? Isn't that what we're talking about here? Isn't that what you're selling? Aren't they supposed to improve the acceleration curve due to their current dump to stabilize the battery current when you floor it? I have a Venom single cap for the low voltage side of the ESC just to keep my steering from dropping out under high acceleration and it works. So, did your cap assemblies make any difference? Isn't that the point? My guess is you may be losing ripple voltage because the caps are expiring and you're going to purer line voltage from the battery directly. Or the motor finally caught up, which is more likely. All a brushless motor and it's ESC is, by its nature, is a giant ripple, created by the ESC on purpose. The ripple chases the armature all around the housing and that's what drives the motor. That much is certain. Of course the line signal has ripple. The power going to the motor comes out as a stutter, a very fast stutter, but a stutter just the same. It'll smooth up when the motor cannot take anymore power, or you let off the throttle. At that kind of sudden current dump, I can't imagine the caps would be recharging and you showed no before and after parameters. In the event of a 2 second burst, the caps would expire in about 6ms. What did your tests or charts tell us about any of that? Nothing is what.
I did a series of acceleration tests on a 120 amp 5400kv brushless racing motor at 3s, which drives it to 59,000 rpms. In fact; three of them. All three ESC's were Hobbywing 120amp identicals and had two big caps themselves. I added two quad packs and an octo pack of giant caps. And frankly, I saw very little difference between the three setups, if at all. It was a pretty big disappointment. And if anything, it showed the huge throughput of the 50c Venom battery and a perfectly matched motor that won't overload the ESC. That battery by itself has a burst current rating of almost 500 amps on a 5,000 Venom. Far more than the ESC can handle, and the 365 you ran. So what are we really even talking about here? My tests only determined that the two big caps on the ESC were probably perfectly adequate for the voltage drop, if any, and Hobbywing knows a hell of a lot more about it than I do. Do you think? They know a hell of a lot more about it than you do. They never published any white papers on the subject even though they published tons of white papers and were asked repeatedly because cap packs were all the rage. That told me that not only wasn't there a real performance difference to their current setup, but there was no money in it as a result. Otherwise Hobbywing would have made their own for sale. And they didn't. (even though they were all the rage) And they didn't change their present setups at all. They make one quad pack for a specific ESC as a replacement and that's it. My tests determined as a best case scenario the caps are only being use at a full power spin up, and because of the way they're wired in, the motor only gets half, the battery gets the other half or all of it if it'll take it. From there, in about 4 - 6 milliseconds the caps expire and the line voltage takes over. And the caps recharge at that time. I was so sure, just like you are. Maybe I have the whole thing wrong, but I did an awful lot of real world testing with reliable and repeatable setups. I just realized your posts are six years old. I have no idea why UA-cam sent it to me today. But I would be interested in your thoughts if you're still around.
I understand the need to use the cap pack in fact is urgent in all my RC's
Solder it straight to the esc better or adding a connector to the esc better?
very impressive stuff bro,can wait till mine gets here. thx again
Yessir, you got the tracking email right?
No yet bro
Hmm. email me and ill give it to you, and ill see how to fix that. its supposed to email you as soon as I mark it shipped on the website.
I would love to talk to Leo himself about his data logs.. I am wondering if anybody else out there has ever hit below zero on their Ripple like Point 1.2 or 3 below zero
Do you have a video about setting up a data log system on rc car
let me know when 6packs ready👍
did you log that with a sensor less motor i have a mamba x esc with a old 1410 motor and it wont log any thing
How are you getting does Amps
Excellent!!
nice. what brand batteries were you using?
Great video of how its been done right bro.....
What would be the overall advantage of having a cap pack on a RC?
Lower esc temps? Higher top speed?
Trying to learn about cap packs but struggling to understand the Positives of having one
So far, nothing. They won't increase top speed and the acceleration curve is questionable, especially if your ESC already had caps built in.
@@dannysdailys thanks for your reply :)
I have an inexpensive esc that can only run up to 3s. Would one of these cap backs help extend the life of one of these esc's? the additional fans I have installed haven't solved the problem nor has cutting the body to get more air over the esc.
oh i know ill be buyin those 6 packs!you better beleive it!you shipping to Canada if not I have someone in Detroit
I might be able to ship to Canada. I would have to check the shipping rates.
just ordered a 4 pack for my typhon
nice! I received it. I will get that shipped out tomorrow. FedEx guy already came today.
If you drive on 2s and 3s what you need than?
Can I put a killmode cap pack with hobbywing max 5 esc
Mikey Lopez absolutely!
Ofc
nice. cant wait
Very impressive!! If I use the cap pack and don't get the same results is it possible to make a return?
Desiign Vortex what other cap pack companies have that policy??? RCFL Bro
Well, it would be impossible for me to guarantee the same results unless you were running the exact same setup, in the exact same conditions, with the exact same driver, road, batteries, motor, car, ESC... You get the point. What I can guarantee, is highest quality product that is proven to work, and as much feedback, and support as possible.
Kill Mode RC Alright, I'll buy you 6 pack when they release. Also are you able to make your website so that customers can leave reviews? Because reviews are one of the things that make a person buy a product.
Awesome idea! I will have the designer put a review section on the site. Also, when you get your pack, send me a pic, and ill post it to the gallery. Thanks!
Any U.k suppliers for these guys?
Thanks for the video!
I just have a quick question.
I just ordered my 4 pack andim going to get a 6pack.
My question is on my castle xlx do I remove the existing cap packs or just solder to wires?
most ripple peaks around 50-70%, at WOT ESC is most efficient at managing power out of good batteries so the ripple goes from low to nothing. This is an achievement of your esc and battery as well, not the cap pack alone. I like the product you make, but if you gonna sell it I would suggest you dont look at ripple under WOT 100% and use that as a selling point. Looks like youre sucessfully keeping ripple under 5% for most of the run, including where it occurs at peak as youre rolling into throttle - which once again is a combination of good batteries, esc and of course capacitor pack as well. you still havent said what batteries you are using w xlx to manage this kinda low ripple.Thanks
P.S. when you speak of high end audio, is that car or home audio?
I always appreciate constructive criticism as well as a good debate. With that said, allow me to point out why I disagree with your assessment. I agree, that the largest ripple spikes occur during the time building into full throttle. I even pointed that out in the video. However, those spikes do not concern me, as they usually only occur for a fraction of a second, and are not responsible for heat, power loss, and esc/internal capacitor failure. They are simply small insignificant spikes. Lets face it, nobody is burning up esc's at 50% throttle on speed runs. I also agree that the esc is most efficient at WOT 100% throttle. That being said, this is still the most important area of concern. This is when esc's fail, and this is when ripple is most important. I think it is a mistake when people only look at the "max ripple" on the log, and nothing else. That max spike could have occurred anywhere. This is evident by simply looking at Castle Creations esc's. The significant area of failure on the XL2,was capacitor failure at WOT. What did castle do to rectify this with the XLX? They simply added more capacitors. The test ESC in this log is an xl2, not an xlx. The xlx is far more effective in terms of ripple than the xl2. So to see a log with 0.00volt ripple at just over a second of 100% throttle, and to maintain that for the remainder of the run, is absolutely a testament to the effectiveness of the external cap pack. I also know this because I have done multiple test pulls without the cap pack on the same setup, and the ripple remains well above 1volt at 100% throttle. That 1volt ripple at WOT, can be a death sentence for an ESC. Now, I would never suggest that theKill Mode Cap Pack is solely responsible for all of this. That would be silly. Of course, ESC, battery, and proper tuning are critical. I simply claim that if you want the best of everything else, don't short yourself by using some junk cap pack. All components are equally critical.
P.S. I use Roaring Top batteries on most of these runs. They are a good quality, inexpensive battery, and I think they are a great bargain.
I am absolutely not taking away from a cappack as an external device that does filtering and therefore even keeps the heat away from esc, even if internal ones could do a job on their own. Your cap does an excellent job of keeping ripple low (if the max is low, itll be low anywhere in the graph) and going back to WOT if its low at maximum, itll be low to nonexistent at the said power out 100% (once again as evident in your video), and was expected seeing how peak ripple is low as is. Im glad you didnt take it the wrong way, ive learned a thing or two myself from your vids
Texan Yankee definitely didn't take it the wrong way. I'm always trying to learn. Every time I learn something better, I try to figure out how I can make my product better. I want to have the best product available, so I'm always trying to improve. 🤙
just sent u email. k
what packs do you recommend for 8s x maxx. I'm gonna order them for all my rc's
Angelo Evangelou depends on what you plan on doing with the setup. But either the 4 or 6 pack would be more than enough.
can i get 1
Sure! you can order at www.killmoderc.com
Very impressive!! If I use the cap pack and don't get the same results is it possible to make a return?