Hi Larry, Thanks again for yozr very informative video, too. Me I am using Kadee and Kadee kompatible Couplers onto my US Rosters and Car Fleet and of course onto my prussian prototype epoche I or era 1 continental based european layout onto my Rosters and car fleet, too. In 1899 to 1909 the imperial prussian state railway tested the Krupp Knuckle Coupler, which had been a much more solid version of the in the USA used Janney Coupler, but what had been kompatible to the Chain & Hook european style Coupler with sside buffers, the middle center Krupp Coupler could be switched into side and arrested by bolt to give free an hook & Coupling Chain mounted onto its side. It was a tenn years long test about of tryinc to change the coupling system in central europe into a more safer coupling system to tge railroad operations. A lot of imperial state railroads obeyed this test and got much safer operations but the biggest german imperial state railway decided not to use this Krupp Coupler after the ten years long general test, because of the very high predicted costs to invest more than 10 Million Goldmarks to change the coupling system. Some decades later it gave a lot of tries again to use another middle buffer coupling systems based upon the Janney Coupler or Krupp Coupler but what were compatible to the Hook & Chain Coupler or even not but at least the bigger european state railroads did not decided to use the more safer Couplers by same reasons like before, because of the very expensive changing costs to the international roster and car fleets. With that background infos about knuckle couplers I can easily use Kadee Couplers to my european continental model railroad...Kadee does producing their Knuckle Couplers with NEM 362 (NEM = Norm of European Model Railway Manufacturers) shafts in four different lengths, so that the side buffers will not give trouble inside curves. The NEM 362 Kadee Couplers disallow to use the KKK Mechanics installed to the most european cars and locos. You need to fix the KKK Mechanism first before using Kadee NEM 362 Couplers, because they Kadee Couplers have an hinge behind the knuckle head what making them not rigid enough that the KKK Mechanism would work like expected, what can make derailments if the mechanism ist not blocked and fixed up. KKK = Short Coupling Backdrop Mechanics If you will not fixing the KKK onto your Continental European NEM 362 Coupler Shafts than use Kadee Compatible Couplers of other brands without rigid behind the knuckle Coupler Head.
Hi Larry, I have the circuit diagrams all ready to go for infra-red uncoupling! I am using a tiny pager motor with the eccentric weight to pull the knuckle open!!! The prototype worked so well that when I am healthy again, I will be putting them on some of my freight cars. I was a Marine at Camp LeJeune when the water was poisoned. You've probably heard about it??? There are thousands of us that are in a class action lawsuit against the Dept. Of The Navy
I recently bought some 1/8" X 1/8" X 1/2" neodymium magnets from Apex Magnets. These are just a perfect size to fit between the ties of HO flex track. After verifying their polarity with a compass, I glued three of them in sequence centered between the ties, using CA and holding them in place with my fingertip until the glue dried. While the neodymium magnets sit a bit proud of the ties, it's less than the KADEE #321 and is insufficient to interfere with operations. So far, these magnets have worked well in practice.
Yes, Under roadbed magnet is a BIG problem because of unintended uncoupling. Also the problem increases with cars with Ferrous metal weights and cars with magnetic axels. It is a big big problem. Replacing the iron weights with Non magnetic weights and replacing steel axels with non magnetic axels helps but does not eliminate the problem.
I've purchased a few British and European locomotives over the years and it's so easy to replace the couplers because NEM pockets seem to be a universal standard on their side of the pond.
Yes the NEM socket makes installation quick and easy. However as I will show the manufacturers have yet to figure out a say to get consistent heights. I have couplers that are out if alignment by over half the coupler which would almost guarantee a breakaway on a hill or helix and often makes uncoupling unreliable.
@@TheDCCGuy I haven't had any issues with coupler height differences, but then I don't have a lot of British and European locos, just a few. And I avoid cheap low end locos from manufacturers like Hornby. I have heard this complaint from various UK You Tubers, so yes I know it's a problem.
What another great Video Larry, Kadee Couplers look so good and are so versatile there’s nothing to compare. Looking forward to the rest of your Kadee Videos, will you also be looking at the differences between the different Styles, that is, which are the most prototypical Types. I’m certainly going to build the North American Version of your switching Layout for my Shelton & Western Shortline HO Layout. Thanks once again. Keep safe.
I plan to address some of representative differences among them. However Kadee offers so many different styles I’d go broke buying only one of each! It is a good idea to go to the Kadee website and download a pdf copy of their catalog, covers the whole range in excruciating detail.
I’ve got a few of the kedee under track magnets I’m going to be install on a new layout. Using foam and woodland scenics foam roadbed, which should make “sticking them” where I need ‘um be simple...I hope. On another subject, while going over some previous post, I see what I’ve assume is a SR fast clock (since it’s not running) in the background. You were asking about future ideas/subjects to cover. How about how to use, set up a fast clock in operations? I’ve been active and armchair hobbiest for over 50 years and not ever understood how it works or how to use/apply a fast clock to an operating session. Thanks. Don
This is mainly due to cars with steel axles and/or wheels. On my HO cars I replace my wheelsets with nickel plated ones that are nonferrous. I am awaiting some similar ones from DCC Concepts for my UK wagons. My Oxford Rail wagons which do not have magnetic wheels or axles do not uncouple that way. Once I get those I plan a video on this issue and ways to address it.
Just a note of further info - The Kadee between the rails uncoupling magnets come in 3 types. #321 delayed action as you described, #312 which do not have the delayed uncoupling capability and the #322 delayed action for code 83 (US) rail.
Yes, they also say the code 83 version will work with smaller scales although it will require modifying the track. Back in my early modeling days I used a code 100 magnet and cut out a row of ties between the rails to allow it to fit comfortably below the railheads.
Thank you for taking the time to walk us through the build. Will the Kadee between rail uncouplers work with Micro Engineering code 70? Are the turnouts you used all #6? It was great you showed the placement of the magnetic uncouplers as l would have made several mistakes if you hadn’t addressed the thoughts on their placement. I know you are using Peco code 83 track but I would like to use code 70 Micro Engineering track as I think it has greater detail. Looking forward to your next installment.
Kadee says you can use them on smaller track but modifications are required. For example you might need to sand down the surface of the ties between the rails enough for the magnet to sit flush with the railheads. You may even need to cut out pieces of ties between the rails and then use cardboard or styrene shims to get just the right height. If it were me I’d order one package and then use a short piece of flextrack and see what is required to get reliable results. Just make sure the trip,pins on your couplers are set correctly. I’ll be going over fine tuning couplers in one of the followup videos.
Thanks for the advice. I’m thinking I will use electro magnetic uncouplers for all of the uncouplers, in order to maintain the look of the track. If l recall correctly you said in a video that Micro Engineering switches were doc friendly which, along with the realistic look, is why I’m going to use them. Does the Piedmont Southern use Peco track? Thanks you for taking time to help with these questions. Best regards,
My track is a combination of MicroEngineering and Peco code 83. I also have a little ME code 70 in the pulp yards and the Charlottesville industrial area. Most turnouts are ME as well with a few Walthers #5 and I did use some modified Shinohara code 70 turnouts with the code 70 track. I think I got the box of Peco flextrack at one point when ME was not readily available.
I have a uncoupling tool that has a plastic handle connected to a u shape with 2 small magnets on each side of the u. It can pose the same problem as a pick on damaging details if you're not cautious when using it.
Yes, I have several of those but ran out of time to show them, I’ll include them in one of the upcoming videos. The big problem with them is that cars with steel ladders (Athearn cabooses) or details are pulled off the rails by the magnets. And they won’t work at all with the UK cars as their buffers get in the way.
I have a couple of those U-shaped magnetic uncoupler tools, too. I have found them to be frustratingly unreliable and ineffective in practice. I also have a sharply tapered metal pick that I got from Micro-Mark, which has proven to be the most effective manual uncoupling tool. Unfortunately, the tip is SO sharp that it pokes holes in my pocket.
Hi Larry Thanks for another great instructional video. The kadee magnets rely on the under track magnets center line to be under the center of the cars to be uncoupled. Would they work if their center line was placed under the center line of the cars on a curve? All the best and stay safe Paul from Zillmere
No, the couplers have to be in a near straight line relationship to uncouple. I think it is because one a curve the couplers lock together and tension cannot be released.
With the length of the Kadee magnet as it is, would it be possible to cut it in half, or thirds? Less of a magnetic surface would make for less uncoupling..... if it can work that way.
I am planning to give that a try so we will see. I am sure I saw a post somewhere by an individual who had tried it. I figure even if it doesn’t work I can always just stick them back together. PS-I have also seen some folks using pairs of small ceramic magnets placed on either side of the rails.
Yes, I did a series of articles around 2004 for Model Railroading magazine on On30 which were resulted in creation of the On30 Annual. I still have a bunch of On30 equipment I need to sell off. I put sound in a Bachmann 2-6-0 and Shay and decoders on the 0-4-0 and a kit built 0-6-0. I hung onto them in case I decided to venture into a garden railway but that’s not going to happen so time to let go.
Larry, you cannot uncouple or couple prototype cars on a curve. I have found that what works or does work on the prototype also does not work on my layout.
I'm a cheapskate so I just use wooden shish-ka-bob skewers to uncouple Kadees. I leave them lying all over the layout and it's no big deal if they break or get lost.
Given that the track is actually HO scale and the couplers are HO scale, I don’t see any difference. I run my UK models on my HO layout all the time and the couplers work there. I am pretty sure Charlie Bishop has them on his Chadwick Railway as I saw him demo their use on a video about 6 months ago and ha asked me a question about using them with a Digitrax accessory decoder.
Oh, and it's a shame your friend with the large layout lost interest in the hobby. I hope it's not a health problem or job issue that's preventing him from having operating sessions. You should call him and suggest an operating session :-)
No, no, just that Covid does not allow operations. I haven’t been to an op session since about March. Can you imagine a bunch of old farts squeezing past one another in 18” aisles? We’d all be dead in a month!
Hi Larry,
Thanks again for yozr very informative video, too.
Me I am using Kadee and Kadee kompatible Couplers onto my US Rosters and Car Fleet and of course onto my prussian prototype epoche I or era 1 continental based european layout onto my Rosters and car fleet, too.
In 1899 to 1909 the imperial prussian state railway tested the Krupp Knuckle Coupler, which had been a much more solid version of the in the USA used Janney Coupler, but what had been kompatible to the Chain & Hook european style Coupler with sside buffers, the middle center Krupp Coupler could be switched into side and arrested by bolt to give free an hook & Coupling Chain mounted onto its side.
It was a tenn years long test about of tryinc to change the coupling system in central europe into a more safer coupling system to tge railroad operations.
A lot of imperial state railroads obeyed this test and got much safer operations but the biggest german imperial state railway decided not to use this Krupp Coupler after the ten years long general test, because of the very high predicted costs to invest more than 10 Million Goldmarks to change the coupling system.
Some decades later it gave a lot of tries again to use another middle buffer coupling systems based upon the Janney Coupler or Krupp Coupler but what were compatible to the Hook & Chain Coupler or even not but at least the bigger european state railroads did not decided to use the more safer Couplers by same reasons like before, because of the very expensive changing costs to the international roster and car fleets.
With that background infos about knuckle couplers I can easily use Kadee Couplers to my european continental model railroad...Kadee does producing their Knuckle Couplers with NEM 362 (NEM = Norm of European Model Railway Manufacturers) shafts in four different lengths, so that the side buffers will not give trouble inside curves.
The NEM 362 Kadee Couplers disallow to use the KKK Mechanics installed to the most european cars and locos. You need to fix the KKK Mechanism first before using Kadee NEM 362 Couplers, because they Kadee Couplers have an hinge behind the knuckle head what making them not rigid enough that the KKK Mechanism would work like expected, what can make derailments if the mechanism ist not blocked and fixed up.
KKK = Short Coupling Backdrop Mechanics
If you will not fixing the KKK onto your Continental European NEM 362 Coupler Shafts than use Kadee Compatible Couplers of other brands without rigid behind the knuckle Coupler Head.
Hi Larry, I have the circuit diagrams all ready to go for infra-red uncoupling! I am using a tiny pager motor with the eccentric weight to pull the knuckle open!!! The prototype worked so well that when I am healthy again, I will be putting them on some of my freight cars. I was a Marine at Camp LeJeune when the water was poisoned. You've probably heard about it??? There are thousands of us that are in a class action lawsuit against the Dept. Of The Navy
Another informative video. Please keep coming.
Thank you for your time and effort that was a good video thank you very much you're doing a good job it's very informing thank you sir
very informative for a novice like me , much appreciated
I recently bought some 1/8" X 1/8" X 1/2" neodymium magnets from Apex Magnets. These are just a perfect size to fit between the ties of HO flex track. After verifying their polarity with a compass, I glued three of them in sequence centered between the ties, using CA and holding them in place with my fingertip until the glue dried.
While the neodymium magnets sit a bit proud of the ties, it's less than the KADEE #321 and is insufficient to interfere with operations.
So far, these magnets have worked well in practice.
Yes, Under roadbed magnet is a BIG problem because of unintended uncoupling. Also the problem increases with cars with Ferrous metal weights and cars with magnetic axels. It is a big big problem. Replacing the iron weights with Non magnetic weights and replacing steel axels with non magnetic axels helps but does not eliminate the problem.
Watch video #216 for my solution.
Those magnates are the way to go. I am going to look into them for my next layout.
Have you looked at the Rapido uncoupler system? They are really good for multi deck layouts.
Great video. Thank-you.
I've purchased a few British and European locomotives over the years and it's so easy to replace the couplers because NEM pockets seem to be a universal standard on their side of the pond.
Yes the NEM socket makes installation quick and easy. However as I will show the manufacturers have yet to figure out a say to get consistent heights. I have couplers that are out if alignment by over half the coupler which would almost guarantee a breakaway on a hill or helix and often makes uncoupling unreliable.
@@TheDCCGuy I haven't had any issues with coupler height differences, but then I don't have a lot of British and European locos, just a few. And I avoid cheap low end locos from manufacturers like Hornby. I have heard this complaint from various UK You Tubers, so yes I know it's a problem.
Nice video! Good info!
What another great Video Larry, Kadee Couplers look so good and are so versatile there’s nothing to compare. Looking forward to the rest of your Kadee Videos, will you also be looking at the differences between the different Styles, that is, which are the most prototypical Types. I’m certainly going to build the North American Version of your switching Layout for my Shelton & Western Shortline HO Layout. Thanks once again. Keep safe.
I plan to address some of representative differences among them. However Kadee offers so many different styles I’d go broke buying only one of each! It is a good idea to go to the Kadee website and download a pdf copy of their catalog, covers the whole range in excruciating detail.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks for getting back so quickly, and your good Advice I’ll certainly do that. Thanks once again. Best Wishes.
I’ve got a few of the kedee under track magnets I’m going to be install on a new layout. Using foam and woodland scenics foam roadbed, which should make “sticking them” where I need ‘um be simple...I hope.
On another subject, while going over some previous post, I see what I’ve assume is a SR fast clock (since it’s not running) in the background. You were asking about future ideas/subjects to cover. How about how to use, set up a fast clock in operations? I’ve been active and armchair hobbiest for over 50 years and not ever understood how it works or how to use/apply a fast clock to an operating session.
Thanks. Don
Will do when we get to operations. I also had a chapter in my projects book on how to make those fast clocks.
Hi Larry - The "under the track magnets" still present the same difficulties you demonstrated re: Inadvertent uncoupling? Thankyou.
This is mainly due to cars with steel axles and/or wheels. On my HO cars I replace my wheelsets with nickel plated ones that are nonferrous. I am awaiting some similar ones from DCC Concepts for my UK wagons. My Oxford Rail wagons which do not have magnetic wheels or axles do not uncouple that way. Once I get those I plan a video on this issue and ways to address it.
Just a note of further info - The Kadee between the rails uncoupling magnets come in 3 types. #321 delayed action as you described, #312 which do not have the delayed uncoupling capability and the #322 delayed action for code 83 (US) rail.
Yes, they also say the code 83 version will work with smaller scales although it will require modifying the track. Back in my early modeling days I used a code 100 magnet and cut out a row of ties between the rails to allow it to fit comfortably below the railheads.
Quick question: For DCC, can I use Atlas and/or PECO *insulated* frog switches on a HO scale, Code 83 layout? Thanks!
Yes. But expect short wheelbase locos to stall on unpowered frogs unless they have stay alives.
Thank you! I will plan for that.
Thank you for taking the time to walk us through the build. Will the Kadee between rail uncouplers work with Micro Engineering code 70? Are the turnouts you used all #6? It was great you showed the placement of the magnetic uncouplers as l would have made several mistakes if you hadn’t addressed the thoughts on their placement. I know you are using Peco code 83 track but I would like to use code 70 Micro Engineering track as I think it has greater detail. Looking forward to your next installment.
Kadee says you can use them on smaller track but modifications are required. For example you might need to sand down the surface of the ties between the rails enough for the magnet to sit flush with the railheads. You may even need to cut out pieces of ties between the rails and then use cardboard or styrene shims to get just the right height. If it were me I’d order one package and then use a short piece of flextrack and see what is required to get reliable results. Just make sure the trip,pins on your couplers are set correctly. I’ll be going over fine tuning couplers in one of the followup videos.
Thanks for the advice. I’m thinking I will use electro magnetic uncouplers for all of the uncouplers, in order to maintain the look of the track. If l recall correctly you said in a video that Micro Engineering switches were doc friendly which, along with the realistic look, is why I’m going to use them. Does the Piedmont Southern use Peco track? Thanks you for taking time to help with these questions. Best regards,
My track is a combination of MicroEngineering and Peco code 83. I also have a little ME code 70 in the pulp yards and the Charlottesville industrial area. Most turnouts are ME as well with a few Walthers #5 and I did use some modified Shinohara code 70 turnouts with the code 70 track. I think I got the box of Peco flextrack at one point when ME was not readily available.
I have a uncoupling tool that has a plastic handle connected to a u shape with 2 small magnets on each side of the u. It can pose the same problem as a pick on damaging details if you're not cautious when using it.
Yes, I have several of those but ran out of time to show them, I’ll include them in one of the upcoming videos. The big problem with them is that cars with steel ladders (Athearn cabooses) or details are pulled off the rails by the magnets. And they won’t work at all with the UK cars as their buffers get in the way.
I have a couple of those U-shaped magnetic uncoupler tools, too. I have found them to be frustratingly unreliable and ineffective in practice.
I also have a sharply tapered metal pick that I got from Micro-Mark, which has proven to be the most effective manual uncoupling tool. Unfortunately, the tip is SO sharp that it pokes holes in my pocket.
Hi Larry
Thanks for another great instructional video.
The kadee magnets rely on the under track magnets center line to be under the center of the cars to be uncoupled. Would they work if their center line was placed under the center line of the cars on a curve?
All the best and stay safe
Paul from Zillmere
No, the couplers have to be in a near straight line relationship to uncouple. I think it is because one a curve the couplers lock together and tension cannot be released.
@@TheDCCGuy Thanks Larry
Paul from Zillmere
With the length of the Kadee magnet as it is, would it be possible to cut it in half, or thirds? Less of a magnetic surface would make for less uncoupling..... if it can work that way.
I am planning to give that a try so we will see. I am sure I saw a post somewhere by an individual who had tried it. I figure even if it doesn’t work I can always just stick them back together.
PS-I have also seen some folks using pairs of small ceramic magnets placed on either side of the rails.
Larry: have you ever tried to install a decoder in a On3 loco ? Joe K.
That's a bachamm plastic type!
Yes, I did a series of articles around 2004 for Model Railroading magazine on On30 which were resulted in creation of the On30 Annual. I still have a bunch of On30 equipment I need to sell off. I put sound in a Bachmann 2-6-0 and Shay and decoders on the 0-4-0 and a kit built 0-6-0. I hung onto them in case I decided to venture into a garden railway but that’s not going to happen so time to let go.
Larry, you cannot uncouple or couple prototype cars on a curve. I have found that what works or does work on the prototype also does not work on my layout.
That should be “does not work”.
with the Under track magnet, is it still ok to put ballast over them ?
I do it with all of mine. These are very strong magnets.
Sorry. Please keep them coming.
I am using n scale. Is there an option for me?
Kadee makes N-scale couplers. Visit their website to see those products. They work essentially the same as those for other scales.
I'm a cheapskate so I just use wooden shish-ka-bob skewers to uncouple Kadees. I leave them lying all over the layout and it's no big deal if they break or get lost.
Can you use the electric magnets on 00 as it says ho scale?
You should be able to as long as you have couplers that are compatible with your uncoupler
Given that the track is actually HO scale and the couplers are HO scale, I don’t see any difference. I run my UK models on my HO layout all the time and the couplers work there. I am pretty sure Charlie Bishop has them on his Chadwick Railway as I saw him demo their use on a video about 6 months ago and ha asked me a question about using them with a Digitrax accessory decoder.
@@TheDCCGuy cheers mate 🙂
@@josephdupree9450 cheers
Very good video Larry lot's of usefull information.👍🇬🇧
Oh, and it's a shame your friend with the large layout lost interest in the hobby. I hope it's not a health problem or job issue that's preventing him from having operating sessions. You should call him and suggest an operating session :-)
No, no, just that Covid does not allow operations. I haven’t been to an op session since about March. Can you imagine a bunch of old farts squeezing past one another in 18” aisles? We’d all be dead in a month!
@@TheDCCGuy
Please show some respect towards older people and avoid the term "old farts".
Not my terminology, that’s what my wife calls me and the local operating crew of retirees.
@@douglasallen511 perhaps actual railroad terminology? "Old heads", maybe?
@@TheDCCGuy Hey Larry, tell the humorless curmudgeons that we "old farts" gotta stick together ;-)