ExMormon Missionary MEETS his Bishop!
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- Опубліковано 8 жов 2024
- What happens when a returned LDS Missionary who has left the Mormon Church meets his former Bishop?
Many of you will remember Toby from the documentary I made, following him on a journey back to Switzerland to come to terms with his time spent there as a Mormon Missionary. While we managed to connect briefly with his former Bishop Mark Prohaska, time did not permit an interview.
Well, as luck would have it, I was gifted an opportunity to finally interview Mark and Toby together.
Thank you to The Griffin Inn in Swithland for allowing us to film and being such gracious hosts.
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VIDEO SOURCES
churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/1999/04/the-bishop-and-his-counselors?lang=eng
churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2013/10/come-join-with-us?lang=eng
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FAIR USE DISCLAIMER
The Media in this video (including the thumbnail) is used in a transformative way, for the purpose of review and critique. The images in the thumbnail are used as the primary means of visually identifying the subject matter of the video.
#LDS #Missionary #Mormon
Congrats on 20k subs brother!!! Let’s all join and give thanks in the true order of 🙏. 😎
Hahaha! Cheers!
Yes, congrats! I found you through Mormon Stories Podcast.
Two years ago at age 65 I retired from teaching and had lots of time to read/study church doctrine and history. I was devastated, like Mark. ❤😮🎉
yes they hide a lot of the BS/make believe. Thank goodness for the internet and people like Nemo
It’s like being punched repeatedly in the chest and stomach. 😢
Just recover quickly and you will have your real life back!
60 for me. My grandkids are 8th generation LDS
I left in my early 50s. Spent 8 months between jobs studying 5 theological points. That was the beginning of the end of it for me. My last calling was also as a bishop.
What a lovely man this former bishop is ❤
Great interview Nemo! Thanks for sharing this beautiful display of love from these former believers.
Wonderful interview with good men. As an evangelical Christian I will be praying for these men on their faith journey. We all struggle with questions and doubts. God welcomes our search for truth.
Nemo this was absolutely amazing to listen to, these are very good people ♥️
They are indeed!
Very good - thanks
Glad you liked it!
What a lovely, enlightened, Christ-like man - so sad to know how the church will frame his journey of enlightenment. Thank you Mark - so glad you have found freedom 😊
He is great!
Such love, if anything is to be taken from the experience of being LDS, loving one another is the highest. Thank you Nemo for having such a positive interview on your show. ❤
Absolutely!
What a great interview Nemo! Thank you. What a nice man Mark is- a true Christian.
He absolutely is!
So many great, great people like these heroes who have come through the fire. I met another great family today, here in the heart of Zion, who I thought were the faithful ones, and they just left. Like these heroes, I gave this religion my heart and soul for decades, and was shocked the moment I realized it wasn't life unto salvation. It's a hard road for a while leaving--everyone thinks you are of the devil and they expect you to fall apart, but you remain true to who are and it is no issue. Easy now, and so glad to be where I am today.
I have 30 Mormon cousins who eschew me. It's sad for them-- to feel so threatened, or so
Former missionary from the Alpine German-speaking mission here. This video speaks to me personally and it’s lovely to see someone who shares a similar story with their mission experience and then faith crisis from both Toby and Mark. It makes me feel understood in an odd way. Schön, eure Erlebnisse zu hören.
Also, wonderful video as always, Nemo!
Beautiful interview-thank you for sharing your experiences and wisdom
Thank you both for your honesty. I am so happy for you both that you have come to the new reality.
Thank you, Nemo... this really helps me as I redefine my relationship with the Church...!! 🇨🇦👊
Love this interview. I would recommend that the bishop watch the "Mormon Stories" episode of Hans Mattson as his remarks were so similar. Best wishes moving forward
Good point and idea.
I love this: We do anything for investigators - but as soon as you have questions, people drop you like a hot potato.
This is so true, no matter what country or ward you live in. Thank you for speaking the truth.
Like what questions ?
@@adflee6989 There's a long list. Just for starters, why did we practice polygamy for almost 70 years as a church when the Book of Mormon teaches so clearly against it? And why do we still hold on to the doctrine of polygamy in D&C 132?
@learnenglishwithstories3571 you're just a fake.
@@learnenglishwithstories3571 okay first you gotta understand the purpose of why polygamy was there for, 1 because us Mormons was executed, if you know or familiar with the extermination order where they killed us or kicked us out in every state, you know and why that order was there for while travelling across state to state to find a place whilst getting killed, and while moving up and down while being a Mormon there’s probably not enough members in that state why the purpose of polygamy was introduced you know it’s the same thing with Abraham and Jacob them sleeping with women in order to bring the house of Israel, and it did not took 70 years but roughly around 50 years, and who knows there probably weren’t enough members still around, that’s why when they breed kids they wait for them to grow in order to ….. (that’s why it took over 50 years in order to stop polygamy) then it was officially discontinued by the Church in 1890 with the Manifesto issued by President Wilford Woodruff, but some Mormons still took advantage and still committed polygamy while they still at it while they’re not supposed to, what’s the other list of questions, you got any social media where we can talk, I don’t mind answering all your questions :)
any other questions ???@@learnenglishwithstories3571
Thanks for the interview Nemo! ❤
More positive uplifting dialog like this please!! I feel that content like this is beneficial for the full spectrum of Mormons -- from those orthodox believers struggling to understand why some friend and family family are leaving to those nuanced believers (or active non-believers) trying to find ways to participate authentically in a community they still value.
Oh wow! I just went to Winterthur a few years ago (I have relatives from there)!
This is my kind of bishop. What a sweetheart. A really good man/christian.
Thank you for doing this beautiful interview. Both of these men appear to be wonderful and kind.
They are!
Nemo brings the best of humanity in this production. The contrast of these warm hearted humans in contrast with the petty prophet Russell Nelson is jarring and alarming. This classic video will continue to gain views as one of the best ones ever from the Exmormon community. Go Nemo!
Cheers for that, some bold statements here!
Boys, my falther was a Swiss-German missionary from 1925 to 27. Of course I love the Germans and the Swiss. My great grandfather was from the Danzig corredor. His german name was Schlagge and his Polish was Slagowski. His wife was from Switzerland. Her name was Rindlesbacher. So I guess I like you guys just because. Thanks Nemo for having these dudes on.
This is one of your finer interviews, Nemo. Keep up the excellent work you are doing. We love your honesty, it's contagious.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Nemo. This is great content. Thank you. As an Ex JW this speaks so much to my experience
Glad it was helpful!
As a former member, I have no Bishop. I was delighted to tell the ward clerk that when he called, demanding I speak to THE Bishop. As a former Bishopric member, I think most who serve in the role of Bishop are well-intended and are painfully amateurish in dealing with complex issues.
Tough job, plus no pay (and lots of pressure)
I’ve not met many ex-Mormons that are mature with facing a faith crisis.
I find it ironic that a lot of ex-Mormons are so critical of their former faith but not so critical of their current beliefs whatever they may be at the time.
A great production of great individuals 👏 👍 🙌 👌 😊 😀...
I left to in my early 60s. My husband who converted to the church when he met me divorced me at 53 for a younger woman---mid life crisis lol. . He stayed very active and was even made the young mens president when he married her less than 3 months after our divorce. I went to all the older LDS single activities and found it to be like going back to high school lol. They even had married chaperones at the LDS dances 😂. It really got me questioning eternal marriage. I decided to try a non denominational Christian church and immediately felt like I was home. I ended up getting baptised in that church but now at 71 the more Ive studied the bible I do believe it is ALL about having a relationship with God who I now call my Abba and NOT religion. We are SAVED by what Jesus accomplished on the cross PERIOD. He is the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE. God (ABBA) IS LOVE and thats ALL I need to know and put my faith in. ❤🥰❤️ He has been with me my whole life and doesnt care if Im mormon or not. He LOVED me then and HE LOVES me now. ❤
So beautiful. We have so much in common. My husband also joined for me but we divorced at 43!
I recently found and read the NRSV of the Bible. Such a joy! I feel the same as you about a Community Christian group. My life is so much calmer and peaceful. To you as well, friend.❤
@@patricianoel7782 It is kind of funny our husbands joined and we left. 😂
AMEN! I'm so glad to hear that you found a living and loving relationship of faith in The One Who Loves YOU -- more than anyone else ever can
Outstanding interview! Hope and vision and reality ❤
Incredible work. Thank you! I am impressed by the courage of these two.
Excellent conversation!
It's nice to see that this bishop isn't going to waste because he's no longer active in the church and that he's obviously fine with not having to believe all that anymore.
It's also good that he lives in Switzerland and not in Utah. There he would also have had a social problem because he was no longer active.
The moment that no one asks him why he's leaving would just be a small foretaste.
Somehow it occurred to me that the church is about to lose the best because of its own questionable history and the way it deals with it. great positive conversation nemo.👍🏻
Excellent interview‼️
Hey Tobi long time no see. Didn't I pick you up from the Munich airport back then?
Greetings from former Elder Jakobi
Loved this video and hearing Mark’s perspective.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Excellent interview
Excellent work, Nemo!
Thank you kindly!
I really enjoyed this interview and I really have to say that there is a very strong feeling of betrayal when you find out at an advanced age 50 plus that everthing that you were taught as a devine truth was pure fiction. It takes a long tine to figure out how to cope with it. My shelf broke a fifty and it took me about to age 59 to cut most direct ties to the church.
I understand. I’m 41 and left at at 36. But I’m still coping with the betrayal and the rejection I’ve felt from my church community since. I’m still reeling and heartbroken. I come through a line of Mormon prophets so Mormonism has been such an intense part of my family’s identity since it’s inception. I’m not sure I will ever fully get over it.
This may sound trite and shallow. The adventure is
“getting over it”. You didn’t get
Into over night, so you won’t get over it the next day. Betrayal is Betrayal, weather family, religion, or corporation.
Just go back to bible basics w/o BOM or D&C. Basics tend to
Work out all kinks. My betrayal
was family, it doesn’t make families bad. Just the one I was in. You along with so many other ex-Mormons are
surviving and thriving. 💪👍
@@JohnJones-pe9kj Amen -- God's Living Word can and will bring Healing and Restoration of mind, body and emotions as you draw closer to Him.
@@sagesaith6354AMEN!!
I joined the Mormon church for about 6 years in the ‘80’s then left when I found out certain things.
I met my husband, an ex Mormon in ‘93. We are now both Christian. It took him 10 years of attending a Christian church before he decided to give his life over to Jesus.
.....it's suggested to research other "high-demand" religions. The more I learned about Scientology & it's tactics, the more peace I found about the truth about LDS.
I don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water tho-- the church provided a constructive community and I was surrounded by some of the most decent, kind and loving people I've ever known. Lawyer Dani Ahn Direct is a former Mormon. When she does mention it, there's no anger or regret. Really beautiful useful attitude in "letting go".
Such lovely interview!
Thanks!
What a wonderful interview!
To Mark Prohaska:
If you have placed your faith in Jesus as your Savior, you have already "passed the test" -- you have no need to have further concern other than to serve Him joyfully.
I'm praying for you as you continue your search for God. I understand how there can be considerable confusion in trying to sort out what you once believed to be true about God in the context of the LDS view, and understanding and knowing God outside of that view -- especially given the many years, an entire lifetime with the LDS church.
Perhaps it will be of some comfort and assurance to you to know that it is not an "either - or" situation. The LDS "church" actually includes much true Biblical truth in its teaching and practices, but it redirects and reframes it to suit its own non-Biblical views. So the fact is that much of what you have believed and done is in accordance with God's revealed Word (scriptures, the Bible). That is, there is much Biblical truth in how you have believed and lived. However, that of it which is true, is true regardless of the COJCOLDS.
There is only one Jesus, Savior of the world. Joseph Smith did not "invent" Jesus. If you have believed in Jesus Christ as your Savior, then you are a re-born child of God, and are saved for eternity. This is true for everyone who has ever placed their faith in Jesus Christ as Savior, regardless of when or where they live, or which organization they are a member of. I believe that there are many true Christians among the LDS with whom you worship and share deep and meaningful relationships. However, the spiritual authenticity of these relationships has primarily to do with faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible as God's Word, and only secondarily with the COJCOLDS -- despite the opposite seemingly to be true.
I pray for you, that you will continue your search for assurance and affirmation of your faith -- and God's Love for you -- in the pages of holy scripture -- the Bible. While the Bof M contains fragments of truth from the holy scriptures, it is contained in a counterfeit context. I can assure you that you may safely dispose of and disregard the BoM, D&C, temple garments, temple recommends, baptisms of the dead, the "prophet", and just about everything relating to the LDS apart from the Bible. Continue in the love and fellowship of the saints with those whom you know and love, both within and without the LDS, and share the freedom and love of Jesus with them -- almost as in the role of a missionary within the" church". Find fellowship with other Christians -- members of the Body of Christ -- the true church -- outside of the LDS.
Continue your search in His Word, the Bible, and quickly and completely shed the poisened doubt of "as far as it is translated correctly". It has been -- many times. Seek to know Him in His Word, and He will find you where you are. Always. And forever.
23:00 This has been my experience. The church will treat you like a friend until you have earnest questions or start pointing out contradictions. They treat your honesty and authenticity as a virus that they'll catch if they keep listening to you or remaining your friend. Ultimately, in the LDS Church, you have to remain a certain degree of ignorant in order to stay a faithful member, and I was unwilling to do that.
I still believe many things I grew up learning in the LDS Church and I'm thankful for those things. But I believe those things because of my personal relationship with God and because I feel Him teaching me, not because the church wants me to believe them. When the church lies so much, and treats everything as if it were a black and white, all true or all false situation, I don't think it's any surprise that so many people abandon faith in God completely upon leaving the church.
I hope people can learn to have a good relationship with truth and Jesus who loves them; I hope that they can do this despite the terrible acts of manipulation and unkindness the church has demonstrated while claiming to bear His name.
I admire that this bishop continues to believe in God, to pray alone and with his wife, and to try to live a Christlike life. To me, there's so much baggage to unpack from the LDS church, and yet there are core truths that I also hold onto, like God, Jesus, and for me, the Book of Mormon. Other than those things, much of the rest contain fatal faults. I wish this good man luck in his next steps.
I was with you until you spoke of the Book of Mormon.
Are you saying that even though you have doubts in some principles and / or teachings of the church, you still believe in the BOM because I'm of that opinion also and was wondering if that's possible.
@@jennifercadle8393 Yes, I think we're in the same boat. I see so many problems with much of what happened after 1830 that can't be explained away, and yet at the same time the Book of Mormon can't be explained away. And so I hold on to the BoM and treat everything else as possibly the inventions of men. It's an interesting journey.
@@MormonRescue Please continue your quest for redemption as it is the most important thing in life, not only for now but foe eternity. Jesus is the Way, The Truth, and The Life. He is our Goodness.
@@MormonRescue Well happy to know I'm not the only one who have those exact opinions.
Now 82, I left the church seven years ago. Other than my wife, I don't believe any Mormon has asked me why I left. How strange?!
Hum. What triggered your faith journey. I’m 67. 😉
Before my mission to Mexico, I had studied the History of Mexico in Mexico. One of the things I learned about the conquest was that the Spanish were partly successful because of horses and steel weapons. According to the history, there had never been horses or steel in the Americas before the Columbian exchange. After my study in Mexico, I was called back on a mission. I had never read the Book of Mormon, so when I learned that the Lehite civilization had both horses and steel, I was conflicted. Because I wanted to be a loyal missionary. I chose to follow the book's teaching. I put my academic knowledge on the proverbial shelf. Fifty-five years later, it was my academic knowledge that won out, so I resigned from the church. I did a podcast on this experience on The Backyard Professor, episode 125, if you might be interested in my conclusions about the book>@@patricianoel7782
Why did you leave and what did you replace your beliefs with?
@@chadpearson1572Chad, the cognitive dissonance simply got too great. It is hard to live with two concepts of belief without one demanding eminence. Once I could live with the concept that the Book of Mormon is just the work of men and not god, I felt that I had no wise choice but to resign. Thank you, my friend, for asking!
What is your relationship with Jesus now?
Excellent! Two outstanding, thoughtful gentlemen! “A Course in Miracles” and “A Year of Forgiveness,” (available in German) may hold the answers you are seeking.
The baptists I find are the most respectful, they don't force you into in anything or to believe anything, they are just kind and lend an open hand when actual help is needed, they also oppose tyranny in all its forms and oppose governments that grapple for power
Glad you had a positive experiencethe Baptist religion. I find there are positive examples in all religions. I found my home in the LDS church at age 17 and have no regrets. My testimony of Christ and his Church have come through personal experiences and the strong beautiful Spirit. I hope that I exemplify following the Savior for that is what this church teaches. God bless.
The people might think that when someone has questions, it might make their questions come to the surface. The leaders do not want us to question what they say. Remember the hymn Follow the Profit.
It should be retitled "Follow the LIVING Prophet" since we know that the past prophets don't really matter..............
There should be no reason for any discrepancy’s or inaccuracies in any of past church history. I’ve heard my whole life how truthful everything about the restoration is, apparently it turns out not so much. 😂
I agree! I understand people are human and are going to, to some degree, make mistakes. HOWEVER, I firmly feel if the LDS was TRULY God's perfect church, restored on the earth, there wouldn't have been such immoral, messy and scandalous elements within church history!!
@@jennyelsieyou probably shouldn’t read the Old or New Testament with that position. It is just as messy as the LDS church history if you look at it with as much scrutiny. Also, there is not as much fresh material that gets in to the personal foibles of Bible figures as there is about the LDS church historical figures.
Commenting to help.
Responding to help
The bishop is a wonderful example of how even a flawed theology and history can produce good people. I was impressed by his belief in humanity as one. If we don't have accurate information, then we can't know what's real or what's true.
I also had the feeling, when I lived in Utah, that the missionaries were trying to sell me something. The emphasis was on all the benefits I would get as a member. This will get new members, but they will be people who are primarily interested in the benefits they're promised, not in the truth in the story told by Joseph Smith. Over time this will skew the LDS membership to mainly people who are not too interested in truth, just benefits.
Spin your lies.
And the problem is, there is no truth in the LDS church, so, when people are looking for benefits, that’s the only real thing LDS church has to offer, because everything else is a fabricated. Lie, Joseph Smith’s stories are questionable at best.
If that is the message you received, the missionaries didn’t do a good job or that’s how you interpreted it.
I’m sure some people join or stay in the church because of the benefits, but it is only some, not all. The real hope is that they develop faith in Jesus Christ and repent of their sins.
@@phillipcook3430 Developing faith in Jesus Christ and repenting of sins doesn't require belonging to a church. Sometimes churches become a barrier to such faith as witnessed by so many people today who claim to be Christians but who don't wish to be connected to a church. Churches can be beneficial if they foster unity in love for one another and are used as a means to work together for the betterment of mankind. When churches are used to divide people, to create fear, then I think we're better off without such a church. Personally, I found faith in Christ through a religion which is not a part of Christianity, and I found it in Salt Lake City.
What a delightful man.
Last remark from me. Best book I read on recovery is “Faith After Doubt” by Brian McLaren. Enjoy❤
Nemo, I wonder if you would be interested in doing a video on the nature of addiction and how it is an illness and how that doesn't seem congruent with being an offense to God. Especially people who find themselves addicted to prescription medications that were given to them by medical professionals and things of that nature. That talk given by Nelson really bothered me and I just don't have the voice to speak out about it. Obviously it's your channel and everything I just thought I'd ask if it's something that might interest you.
Yes. I have chronic pain from multiple sclerosis and spontaneous fractures. I take pain meds on schedule. Last year, however I took 5 infusions of ketamine. It is meant for pain and depression as it “re-wires” your brain. Anyway, entheogenics are good medicine. Six BYU doctorate students have a thesis on Joseph Smith and mushrooms. It’s interesting. 🎉
@patricianoel7782 love to find and dive into that thesis. Just last week, we encountered a comment about the higher ups need to lay off the acid trips. 😉 about the only thing that could explain the way minds are working these days.
Door to door sales are very common in the United States so it is more accectable. But I served my mission in France where door to door sales is not common and most people did not like missionaries coming to their door. Even the missionary guide included sales tactics like overcoming objectives. I remember a counselor in the bishopric having an issue with missionaries doing a genealogy survey and going door to door. He said he thought people would feel duped into joining the church. I am from Canada and I live in the US. My parents are from the UK and I served my mission in France. So I really identify with this video. There are also formal and non-formal versions of "you" in French and we called missionaries friends of the church too.
The bishop is a man of honesty and morals, sadly he was used by the mormon church. Wish him happiness and to find that something is searching to fill the void.
Honestly I have met with 3 different bishops in 3 different U.S. states (that don't share boarders). And I feel like I get ignored or shut down in meetings with bishops one on one.
I don't feel like they want to hear what I have to say or they don't know how to address my questions, requests, and concerns.
I just leave feeling like the one lost sheep going up to the shepherd to be turned away.
Best to study on your own. Members are VERY threatened by questions. Unfortunately for them. 😮
@@patricianoel7782I think it's more that members don't want to get in a Bible bashing situation. People who leave in my experience for the most part have already made up their minds. They are either going to live it or walk away from it and in many cases, Nemo being a perfect example, they don't want to just leave, they want to mock it and bash it and put it down.
So many members don't want to be a part of that type of situation because really and in many, many cases those who leave can't just leave. They have to then fight against it for some reason to justify leaving? It really is interesting to see.
So don't be so hard on the Saints. They get bombarded from all directions because they believe in Christ that is preparing the world for his coming and has not closed the heavens but has returned as a thief in the night to prepare the saints for his second coming.
@@patricianoel7782some members are. Not all. Bring your questions to the right member, just be sincere and you will likely get a better response.
I find too many times that those asking the questions do it with contempt. In reality though, some questions don’t have answers yet. A huge issue I see is people believing the worst answer on a difficult topic when that answer is unproven itself as well.
Sometimes others demand answers to questions that have no answers and at the same time abandon the answers they have to other more important questions.
I will tell you one thing, you will not find answers to your questions from NEMO. You will find answers to your questions by wrestling with God through prayer and scripture study. Sometimes the answer doesn’t come directly answering your question but a peace comes allowing you to keep moving forward without abandoning what you already know.
Mark and Toby! What a great interview. I have experienced the emotional and intellectual roller coaster as many members of the church recently.
Mark and Toby, please understand that much of the church history that derails a person is incorrect and misleading. Please don’t let misinformation be your guide. So much of what Brigham Young did was for his own benefit, and to support his own narrative. It’s very disheartening to see how much negative effect Brigham‘s lies have made upon the world today. And the LDS church follows those lies and apparently believes them, otherwise, why would they promote such nonsense. Brigham blamed polygamy on Joseph, but only after he had been murdered. Joseph strongly preached against polygamy all the days of his life. Hyrum also. That’s the bottom line, Joseph did not practice polygamy, It’s only a false narrative created by Brigham to support his lustful lifestyle. Joseph only married one woman, Emma. Please understand that Joseph Smith was a very good and righteous man. And the whole blacks and the priesthood idea was never anything to do with Joseph Smith, but Brigham Young and his evil nature. Brigham was a salve owner and had no love for blacks. Brigham was also prone to murder. He called for the murders of the entire Timpanogos tribe in the Salt Lake Valley shortly after arriving, he called for the 142 murders at Mountain Meadows, and he also called for the murderers of anyone who refused to comply with his tyrannical ways. Castration was also something he was very fond of practicing to help keep men in line. All of this evil nonsense originated with Brigham Young.
Most of the temple ceremony is derived from Brigham‘s understanding of the masonic lodge, mingled with a small amount of true temple worship instituted by Joseph Smith.
In short, God lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Holy Spirit is our guide, Joseph Smith is a true prophet and truly restored the gospel to this earth, the first vision really happened, God revealed himself to Joseph Smith, and called him to be his prophet, The gold plates were delivered to Joseph by an Angel and Joseph truly translated them by the gift and power of God, and the book of Mormon is true. The book of Mormon is the most important thing we can be centering our study and attention on right now, in this life, it was written for us in our day.
All of this said, it should be very apparent that the current church leadership is not inspired of God. The church is off track just like Isaiah and other prophets in scripture have prophesied that it would be. LDS headquarters support of the United Nations and its horrible agenda against humanity and against our Heavenly Father‘s plan should be enough evidence for us to realize that there has been a complete disconnect between God and any inspired church leadership. Church leadership is in full support of some very terrible things. Read 3 Nephi 16:10 to help understand the truth of what is going on today. The church is very much off track, but we should never throw out the baby with the bathwater. Please! Keep your testimony in your Father in Heaven, your Savior, and the prophet Joseph Smith. use the book of Mormon in your daily study to help prepare yourself for what God wants you to be and to help navigate these very trying times that will shortly come to pass.
Thank you again, and thank you Nemo, you are one of my favorite people on this earth, and I appreciate the hard work that you do!
" ... Keep your testimony in your Father in Heaven, your Savior, and the prophet Joseph Smith. use the book of Mormon in your daily study"
so telling ... so true.
do anything -- and everything.
Anything...
... except The Bible.
Yep -- you showed yourself to be honest about yourself on that one.
You will have your reward.
@@sagesaith6354 actually, it is quite telling, especially about your close mindedness. I didn’t say I didn’t believe in the Bible, I actually do believe very much in the Bible. The Bible and the book of Mormon, were both inspired writings by the same God, my Heavenly Father, and yours.
The book of Mormon ads support and a second witness to the validity of our Savior.
Jesus is the Christ and He is our Savior.
@@psmith535 nice of you to ( ... oh, by the way ... ) mention that the Bible is included
Oh -- and yes, accuse me of close mindedness. Always attack -- right ?
No, you didn't say that you don't believe the Bible. But your omission of it indicates -- as is very common with many LDS -- that, in actuality, the Bible is secondary to your faith.
And may I respectfully disagree? The Bible and the book of Mormon are *NOT* both inspired writings by the same God. NOT AT ALL. Contrary to what you must inescapably believe as an LDS.
Pretty sure all my former bishops would say, "Who?"
Toby is so handsome!
21min "What do You want me to do today?" Comfort guidance. Higher. It's ok to seek.
"If we would avoid adopting the evils of the world, we must pursue a course which will daily feed our minds with ... the things of the Spirit. I know of no better way to do this than by daily reading the Book of Mormon." General Conference, Aor 1980 Marion G. Romney
And now, my sons, remember, remember
that it is upon the rock of our Redeemer, who is Christ, the Son of God, that ye must build your foundation; that when the devil shall send forth his mighty winds, yea, his shafts in the whirlwind, yea, when all his hail and his mighty storm shall beat upon you, it shall have no power over you to drag you down to the gulf of misery and endless wo, because of the rock upon which ye are built, which is a sure foundation, a foundation whereon if men build they cannot fall.
If any doctrine of the faith is true, it should withstand questions from any angle. If you can only maintain faith by blocking out all other sources, think logically and try to see what that means.
That was very interesting,it is one thing to realise l have been deceived,but now to find the truth,if you’re really wanting truth l can point you in the right direction,Jesus brought a way of faith it’s still on the earth today,John
It’s so sad that deeper study and reading about your church reveals deception and wrongdoing. Betrayal of the members by the authorities causes pain, grief, and alienation.
I’m glad they are out of this church, it’s never easy I’m sure but I really celebrate them when they leave this damning doctrine. Thank you Lord Jesus.
Sounds interesting
It is, see you Sunday!
This is the needle I’m threading right now. Two weeks ago, I told my bishop I no longer believe in Joseph Smith or the temple endowment. This week, I told him I need to be released from my calling in the RS presidency, but that I could be an activities coordinator or something that doesn’t require teaching. My husband still believes. The church is our community.
But the doctrine and the gospel have completely crumbled for me.
I hope you find peace and reassurance from God. No one else can really offer it. I believe that God rewards those that diligently seek Him as the scriptures state.
Sometimes it helps to go back to the basic questions like, who am I, does God love me, and re-build from there. It also helps to really dig and identify what you know to be true.
Mark seems like a real gem!
He conducted surveys on his own... and reported his findings to his leaders. 👍
He cares about other peoples experiences with the church in a way that seems deeper than what comes out of salt lake.
The golden rule is "do unto others as you would have them do unto you", but its flawed. If you go to lunch and the waiter does the "golden rule" on you, then you are going to get what the waiter wanted for lunch.
The platinum rule is better "do unto others as THEY would have you do unto them." ... this is harder because you have to get outside yourself and learn about the preferences of other people. ... this seems to come naturally for Mark.
By Grace are you saved through Faith, not of works lest anyone should boast.
@robertstaas Grace is the gift of God's enabling power, divine assistance for short. Jesus explains how it works in John 15: 1-9 Notice that Jesus teaches in those verses that we are required to BEAR FRUIT (do the will of the Father), but we can only do that with his divine assistance. If we fail to bear fruit, we will be cut off and burned. Bearing fruit is DOING THE WILL OF THE FATHER as Jesus teaches in Matt 7: 21-23. So what does Eph 2:8 mean? By divine assistance and your faith in Jesus Christ are you able to do the will of the Father (works). You can't save yourself all by yourself and then boast about it.
The priesthood ban againts the blacks was the impetus for my resigning my membership from the LDS Church.
I was a young man in 1974 in Southern California a very ethinicly. diverse area yet there were absolutely NO black members in our wards or Stake Zero Nada Zilch !
Yet my best friend and his family were African Americans and I didn't feel comfortable inviting them to a Sacrament meetings at the local ward due to the subject of blacks and the priesthood.
I asked my Boy Scouts leader m priesthood leader Bishop Etc why Our church practices this discriminative racist policy.
They had No answer other than it's Heavenly Father's plan that we need to accept it without questioning it.
Yet I would tell them that I learned about the 1964 Civil Rights Act that was passed by the United States Congress which gave equal rights to African American citizens .
Yet God's "True Church" still practiced discrimination towards African Americans .
Yes Black's could be baptized into into the LDS Church but they were NOT "worthy" a Temple recommend nor priesthood ordinances nor allowed to serve a Mission.
yeah definitely a tough subject (to reconcile) no matter how you slice it. However now thought blacks do hold the priesthood currently. So perhaps tradition, politics (of the nation, church) and of that current time along with prejudices factored into the equation (plus many more other things we might not know). The Africans now though are joining in droves and may overtake the church members in the future, go figure!
@@nute742
Yet Heavenly Father waited 14 years after the US Civil Rights Act was passed? (1964-1978) to.lift the priesthood ban/ curse on those with dark skin?
Shouldn't the "True Restored Church of Jesus Christ " have been the Vanguard by leading by example instead of the heathen secular government on this issue?
The Leaders of the LDS Church were obviously feeling societal pressure due to the Civil Rights movement plus many athletic conferences were boycotting BYU sports programs which was costing the Mormon University alot of revenue $$$
Also BYU needed African American athletes in order to be more competitive in NCAA Sports especially Football and basketball.
Google the Wyoming 14 .
It's a Documentary by ESPN about the 14 African American players on the University of Wyoming Football Team and the game vs BYU .
Very interesting story!
The closest I have felt to being a Zion people is at my South Florida employer. It’s an incredibly diverse melting pot of races, religions, nationalities, hobbies, etc. Our company provides a lot of community service, from Habitat for Humanity construction to teaching life skills. Serving alongside these kind, generous people has given me so much.
Hearing the fear mongering about these people at Church affects me deeply.
@@aBrewster29fear mongering? That’s one I haven’t heard before.
@@phillipcook3430 Matthew 11:15
Did you officially leave the LDS church? Or are you inactive?
Me personally, neither!
I think if you want to socialize with anyone who’s active, maybe try to just befriend them and not attack things that they hold dear to them like the gospel and the church?
I serve too in alpine mission l was the only British member missionery please listen to our prophets especially Nelson said many would depart from the faith. Matter of fact l am living in Philippines l am only British member here it's been hard here.
You know, for me it really helped when I learned the reasons people were leaving the church. If you actually listen to their stories, they're not what you expect to hear. Based on the general authorities warnings, you expect to hear people who leave the church because they're very angry or despise the church. But you can see these men here, how much they love the church and wanted to seek the truth. Almost all the people who have left the church have been very sad to leave it. The people who leave are not like the stereotypes at all. I didn't know that before.
What is Thrive and is it in other country’s?
I left earlier this year, and ya... not a single person has visited. Not that I want them to! Lol I just find it interesting.
"I don't believe you, you have the whole damn thing all wrong. He's not the kind you have to wind up on Sundays. Well you can excommunicate me on my way to Sunday School. Have all the bishops harmonize these lines." I. Anderson. 71
I sometimes wonder what color Mr Nelson's eyes are
Searching for God? Maybe there's no need especially when one considers the likelihood that there is no God.
God says, in His revealed word that one who " .... considers the likelihood that there is no God." is a fool. Psalms 14:1
Out of the fire and into the frying pan
Thanks for this interview in which I recognized myself on many points.
Next step is when you undersand that Jesus'story is also made up by men and politics... Good luck in your search and study. The truth shall set you free.
Well, he's not the first English convert who was indoctrinated using verifiably false Mormon teachings.
At least he didn't end up a polygamous 16 year old married to a 62 year old elder on the American Frontier.
👌
Telling the truth, people will drop you like a hot potato.
Man world , the men lying for the Lord. ❤
What blows my mind is, the Bible was originally written in Greek, Hebrew, Latin, and Aramaic, then translated into king James English in England, but in America, the book of Mormon was translated again into king James English, I really don’t think that Joseph Smith was fluent in king James English, his original had so many “and it came to pass” that if you removed all of those, you wouldn’t have a book, but a pamphlet, and that is what Mark Twain said, but I have noticed he says the word yeah quite a bit also, in the book of Mormon, and when you read it, it doesn’t even sound true, it sounds like a bad novel, and there is no archaeological evidence whatsoever in the United States for the book of Mormon, there is tons of evidence for the Bible, and I know Mormons don’t believe the Bible is completely correct, but there is zero evidence for the book of Mormon, it is a fabrication from a man who ate too many beans, one night, and I feel very bad for the followers, because they are the nicest people on planet earth, but as soon as they look at their history, A person will soon realize this is a false religion made to control people, started out as a sex cult, and ended up as a money making machine
👍👍👍
Hajaja. Great idea, generating income from renting parking spaces... 🤣🤣🤣 love it. Could've been ok if you sent 10% to Ensign Park Advisors (no pun) to invest ????
More and more Relief Society sisters and returned missionaries are now sharing Appendix 1 and Appendix 2 of:
"Without Disclosing My True Identity; The Authorized and Official Biography of the Mormon Prophet Joseph Smith, Jr. PDF"
The Matrix doesn't care what you believe, just so long as you believe.
This is the Christopher Nemelka book, yes?
Lol, by whom was it authorized? Obviously not by the LDS church.
He was ditrector of public affairs for the church in Switzerland? Why are you burying the lede Nemo? That's way more interesting than "bishop".
It's always baffling to hear Mormons say they believe in God AND in Jesus Christ.
They ARE one AND the SAME being...but NOT if one is WRONGFULLY taught that the Trinity is a manmade doctrine even though the Apostles knew EXACTLY who Christ was - the ONE and ONLY ONE, true God and NOT simply a human that progressed to godhood.
@byonnoyb So is Jesus a liar and/or an ignoramus? In the Lord's prayer Jesus begins with, "Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name..." Jesus is on the earth. He states that God the Father is in heaven. Are you saying Jesus is ignorant of the fact that there is no Father in Heaven, that he is actually the Father, and he is on the earth? Or are you saying Jesus knows that he is both the Father and the Son, but he's just lying about it? In another place in the bible Jesus says, "I came forth from the Father and came into the world, now I'm leaving and returning to the Father, but I will send the Holy Spirit who will bring all things to your remembrance." Is Jesus just babbling nonsense? Also, when Stephen was being stoned, he looked into heaven and saw Jesus sitting on the right hand of the Father. Acts 7:55 Are we to understand that what Stephen saw was God sitting on his own right hand?
@bobrussell8339 You sound like a very angry, Mormon, trying to defend something you can’t defend, the book of Mormon is a fiction story, and the doctrine and covenants are sex, cult, history, and hearing you try to chastise somebody who is not a Mormon shows your true colors, what a bad example you are
I get tired of these blanket statements from former members that paint the church in a false light.
Tell them that we were sealed by CHRIST since. He dedicated his entire life for our sealing by his precious love. Memorize JOHN 17 Geneva Bible. God's glory is his precious heart's love that is life is infinity of love.
10:00 Du or Ze? The Church wants to manipulate grammar, another example of its manipulative nature.
The Church is true. Anybody who prayerfully reads the Book of Mormon knows that. The Gospel of Jesus Christ brings eternal happiness.
Indoctrination complete .....
The Gospel of Jesus Christ brings eternal life and is found in the Bible - not in the BM
@@sagesaith6354 And have you even read the Book of Mormon to make your opinion?
@@kevinmatthews7180What about people who prayerfully read the Book of Mormon, and come to the opposite conclusion?
@@kevinmatthews7180I’ve read the Book of Mormon five times and I *know* it’s not true
What a fantasy.
Thank you for your brilliant insight, Barry!
There are always going to be things in the church that we don’t know. But I bear testimony to you that God wants us to live on our own testimony. What happened in the beginning of the church is a prophet that was in learning . And he made mistakes because he was human. But that does not make the Church not true. And where do you go if the church is not true. There is NO other church that knows and has the true priesthood. Satan uses these things to take us away from GOD and HIS church on this earth. What are you going to do when Jesus comes again. And you stand before HIM and you are not there with your continued learning. Also there are many more things that will be revealed during the millanium
Wow. Mark said all of that perfectly, and thank you for sharing the video clips too of the different opinions of leaders. I think that’s super important to note, because I had definitely thought “well they all think this or that” whereas this clearly shows that they have different opinions about those that leave, and it’s lovely to hear what Uchtdorf said. I feel seen tbh by him, and that’s comforting somewhat.
(Until that Russell video comes on 😂🥲)
(Leah bell) 🫶🏽
Wtf