Are you wasting money buying tons of analog emulations for that 'analog' colour?
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- Опубліковано 2 лип 2024
- Are you 'ruining your mixes by using too many analog emulations and striving for 'analog' colour?
Ever wondered how much harmonic distortion and analog colour expensive hardware gear actually has.. lets test it!!
My name is Paul Third and I am a Scottish youtuber / audio engineer / mixing engineer / audio geek. I mostly cover audio engineering related content ranging from audio plugin shootouts / plugin comparisons (acustica audio plugins, universal audio etc etc) to actual analog vs digital / gear vs plugins plugin tests via access analog and mix analog. I even include ddmf plugindoctor tutorials in my plugin reviews so you can be your very own plugin tester and experiment and understand whats actually going on under the hood. I also discuss digital music distribution from time to time and like to give my viewpoint on online music distributors such as onerpm and distrokid.
All of my audio blind tests involving music production software are conducted in avid pro tools 2021 which is my main daw and I also use HOFA blind test 4U as my blind test software. In terms of my audio interface I record and monitor through my audient id44 and use an audio technica AT2050 for all of my voice overs.
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📖 CHAPTERS
0:00 intro
1:22 what does harmonic distortion look like in analog eq's
2:22 harmonic distortion in vintage analog compressors
4:25 harmonic distortion in modern variable threshold compressors
5:10 why modern analog hardware units are designed cleaner
7:14 do plugins create more harmonic distortion than gear?
7:57 but if it sounds good, then it sounds good .. right?
9:16 but surely pro engineers use lots of 'analog colour'
12:05 should you mix into a limiter for better saturation monitoring?
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As an example from my experimentation here are 2 mixes.
One with a lot of coloured compression and analog emulations (inc noiseash neve pre's)
soundcloud.app.goo.gl/S7FYs
And the final mix which had all the neve pre's removed as well as less overall emulations and less colored compression. Very clean mix in comparison.
soundcloud.app.goo.gl/XtEkj
Still very subjective but the only really good example of what I am hearing during my experimentations 🤓
The "clean" one has more space I believe
@@AlexReidStudios that's how I feel as well. More open 🤓
It's just a less good mix in my opinion. Don't forget mixing is made on engineer's décisions and taste. If someone's ears are not sharpened enough his mix will sound terrible . It takes some time to understand thing. So yeah people overuse saturation plug-in they surely need to calm down. Cheers!
Great video man, you killing it.
Hearing just the 1st 30 seconds of each mix, I very much like the no pres much more. More separation, more depth, 3d, has wow factor. It's like night and day. Wonderful job on the mix.
Would it be reasonable to assume that plugin emulation may smear the sound, vs hardware that doesn't?
I think the main thing that ruins my mixes is the fact I'm not very good. 😅
Hahahaha.. Being honest, you learn way more thinking that than blaming other people. I sit all the time and get down that I'm not as good as other people but tbh as soon as you start thinking your awesome and you've learned everything that can be learned.. that's normally when things go down hill because you become complacent and ignorant.
I remember listening to Greg Wells and how he just sat there for ages going 'I'm just not very good' and then just worked and worked and took in as much from other engineers as he could and look at him now 🤓
@@PaulThird oh yeah, for sure agree. It's my hobby so learning is part of the fun of it.
I'm in that club but I'll keep going just to be the first dude to create a sound that no other engineer can match.. Well you can't match inconsistent insanity with no science? 🙈✌🏽
Can I hear one of your mixes? Do you have any material posted online?
@@andrewkaiser7203 the material on my you tube channel is all by me.
First of all, congrats on 10k Paul!
In an industry that is OVERSATURATED with salesmen, it's great to see people who go into great detail 🙏
Thank you so much!🔥
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Thanks for the great video Paul. Excellent things to think about.
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Thanks Paul for the great instruction about saturation buildup. Always Thinking ! That's how I want to mix. Thanks for clearing the air. Cheers !
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I swear I watched like 3 of your videos and can't stop saying Hello everyone like you do. Great stuff!
As soon as I press record I don't even think.. I just do it 🤣
This is the best video you did, Paul. I love the way you presented it. Clarity is the win. I'm a geek, too. Subjective saturation.
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It was so informative! Thanks Paul! 👍
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Your videos are the best. Thoughtful, funny, practical and honest. This vid was a huge light on for me. Thank you Paul!
I often use the Vertigo VSM3 although it does indeed give some heft to the sound I"m probably ruining my mixes. I'll start A/B ing with and without as you recommend.
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I was oversaturating before I saw your video . People like you can change lives like mine . Thank you so much man ! For real , I really apreciate ! 😃
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This has really raised my eye brow(s)! lol it's prompted me to have a talk with an artist I work with, so we can achieve a cleaner mix together, thank you so much for the insight here!
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Hilarious. I just listened back to a mix two days ago with saturation versus none, and realized how over the top it was. This is a great point.
I couldn't believe it when I did it either haha just shows you how much you don't actually don't need a lot of times.
A great exercise to try out 🤓
@@PaulThird I definitely think light saturation on Instruments or buses, and a little on the master is probably best place to go or start with. Stuff can get so loud so quick.
Love the content! Refreshing to hear someone say "theres a lot of opinions on youtube going around right now." Makes me feel like I'm not the only one overwhelmed with a lot of, honestly, contradictory info. The more I record, mix, etc., the more I think it's all about context and, like you say, actually comparing the options before jumping on "always analog always better" or other platitudes. If only sound were so monolithic, think how much easier music-making would be! LOL
As soon as I started comparing everything I do level matched I cut through a lot of BS very quickly. Even the engineers I trust I still do my own tests haha
I also started to mix into limiter some time ago and I feel that my mixes now sound much more balanced. Thanks for great video.
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This is a FANTATIC video. Best ive seen in a looong time
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I’ve got into many heated “discussions” with pretentious audio engineers claiming that mixing into a limiter is “wrong”. It’s so frustrating. Like bro. I want to know what it’s going to sound like when it’s limited anyway and mix accordingly. Why is that so hard to understand? Very frustrating. Glad to see you’re not one of “those types of engineers”
I think it's good to switch it on and off as it will make your level decisions easier. Once you push into the limiter too much, it's hard to hear leveling changes and you might exaggerate them. With a dynamic mix, you may opt for less compression on the limiter. don't get me wrong i have limiter in my chain but I never let it take away more than 2-3db in peaks.
Tbh if it makes sense to me then i do it. No matter what anybody says haha ive spoke to loads of working engineers who mix into limiters and its normally the same rationale.
Mines isnt real heavy limiting with smart limit but enough to give me a good impression of how certain things will translate when limited.
I know certain plugins will give me more perceived loudness when limited etc etc there are a few reasons why lots of guys do it
I've heard some -4lufs mixed and mastered by the same engineer and been like... Wow, all that low end just disappeared.. And in my head I'm like.. (no way the mix sounds like that haha)
At the same time I wouldn't say anybody is wrong for not mixing into a limiter but in today's world.. Somebody has to be wrong for another to be right.
That's why I left all the forums and shit.. Back to my wee audio geek cave 🤣🤣
Mastering Engineers hate it only because novices will *over* limit tracks pre mastering. This completely ties the ME’s hands to do a better job. You can’t get that headroom back. I mix into a limiter too. I just do not go overboard with any significant GR. If I have to get perceived loudness out of my mix with a limiter, then I’ve screwed up somewhere in the mix. But something like Oxford limiter will really change the vibe of a track, so if I want it I mix into it and only let it work at modest levels on the tallest peaks
What's really interesting is that Hanes admitted they pretty much crush it at like -6 lufs and give the artist the choice whether they want it mastered. They'll give the ME like no headroom unless he specifically asks for it Haha which I suppose when your at that level you can get away with as you know how the record should sound. That's why you pay the money for Serban.
I was speaking to a nashville mastering engineer few weeks back and he was telling me it's quite common for pro mixers to send out their limited tracks to the mastering engineer which they are cool with as they are still like -14/-12lufs or whatever. Like still plenty room for a ME to do his thing and means he's able to work with the mix the artist was given and approves.
As you said at the start *over* limiting doesn't give them any wiggle room but we know from experience they can easily work with a -12/-14lufs mix
@@PaulThird this is exactly where I usually hit and it’s never a problem: around -14lufs. On my mixes that’s means it really only squashing the peaks and not by a ton. Then there’s the limiters I use on individual tracks which is a totally different story! Also, genre and style come into play. I work mainly with pop/indie/Alt rock. Many of my reference tracks are at like -6lufs but unless I’m mastering it, I don’t go there (and even then, I err on the side of not over limiting because I’m *not* a gifted ME)
This is a really nice video. Thoughtful and reflective, some nice technical data and references to professional practice, but very open minded. Thanks so much for the helpful advice. I am careful of the saturation I add and will more often than not add it with once across many tracks (or all) rather than on every track; but I can still think more carefully about how much is being added when. I'm often dealing with a high saturation aesthetic, so I think it is important to be careful that I don't start adding more without thinking about why and if it is improving the sound.
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First off great video and I agree! This is why for the longest time the workflow was Neve for recording SSL 9000J for mixing. mixing ideally is super clean and you get the harmonic distortion in the recording. Most pro level engineers get this on the way in and then stay in the box and use clean for mixing for this reason (you briefly went over this).
Now a days most people record clean then mix clean. The reason they use the analog emulations is to add that harmonic color in post that wasn't there in the recording. the issue is they often aren't using the same kind of workflow that would normally be done in the studio. This is why channel strips are great along with GOOD hardware emulations (they are rare). Older 'analog' plugins were especially over colored too. I also feel tape plugins often add a bit too much color, which sometimes can be nice, but often it is too much saturation/color and without it everything pops better (sometimes I want this and it's perfect though).
Love these analysis videos Paul, keep em coming!
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Good video funny bits in there as well!
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Great topic. Well done as allways. I totally agree: you must never forget, that the better these hardware units in the old day were constructed, the cleaner they aim to sound. Talking about adding distortion is a topic of the digital world. And it's ok.
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Great video! Years ago, I used to put tape emulation on every channel but that didn't sound very good. Then I sent everything through Waves NLS, and it was better, but I still didn't get enough of a good vibe from the whole mix, or it just didn't sound good with any of the NLS types. Now I have a more discerning ear, and I hear and understand what each analogue or harmonic enhancer or distortion/saturation is doing to a sound or a buss or the mix. I will put different plugins on specific sounds, or on a buss, depending on what I want from the plugin. When the mix is finally done, I might remove some of them if it sounds better. Sometimes I won't have anything on the sounds and might put one console emulation on a certain buss (like the drum kit or on the midrange synths or the upper bass range, etc. and on the final mix buss -- or... which may/may not upset others, also using a few more different ones on the final mix buss because it sounds better.
Less is more is definitely something I remind myself of daily 😅
Very good thoughts here, well done ✌️
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Great video and people should definitely think about what you’re talking about here when they’re mixing. Mixing is like baking or cooking or anything creative for that matter, it’s a balancing act. If you’re making a dish you have to understand your salt levels or acidic levels vs fat levels etc. Everything affects everything else. It’s the same thing as if you drown everything in reverb and there’s no contrast. Same thing when you’re writing a song and don’t leave any negative space. All these things are a balancing act, and while there’s no rules there are things that work and then clever ways to break those “rules”.
That's a good analogy 🤓
Cheers Paul!!
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I totally agree Paul!
I think the same principle applies to the gain staging into your analog emulation plugins, which I know you've made a video on before. Sometimes manufacturers settings at 0VU say are drive the plugin quite hard and generate saturation etc. but I've got better results applying tape or console emulations across a mix but backing waayy off the recommended gain to preserve transients and make the colour applied more subtle
Totally, if your using tons of instances then makes a lot of sense to back off the inputs to limit the accumulative effect 🤓
I’ve found that when I mix tracks recorded in a good studio with great analog preamps and outboard gear used in tracking there’s much less need for saturation plugins in the mix. Then they get used more creatively than to “fix” something. But there is more need for it when I’m mixing something remotely recorded by someone at home with a relatively inexpensive mic into an affordable interface. That is generalizing because obviously it depends on the style and genre of the song but that’s been my general experience. That said, it is very easy to overdo saturation (like any other type of signal processing) and you have to be conscious of that. I sometimes use “the 2/3 rule.” When I make a big eq, compression, or saturation change, I get it to where I like it and then back off on 1/3 of that change.
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Let me tell you something, I use to collect every analog emulation plugin out there.... Some time ago I uninstalled all my plugins and created a workflow with only full clean digital, transparent and high quality oversampled plugins. Beign more focused on making extremely high quality super clean mixes. Be better at mixing, what makes the "color" the "flavour" the "tone" of a piece of track is how you EQ it, how you compress it, not the distortion imparted to it, the distortion enhanec good track or mask unsolved problems. So master the most transparent EQ you have, learn key frequencies, learn how to set up every part of the best digital clean compressor you can afford (using Pro C2 right now) that let you tweak every single piece to really change the tone of your tracks as you want. Then when you listen the whole mix and sounds amazing, then you can add analog saturaton as taste, you can always, always add analog saturation nowadays. But when you mix through it, you can't come back. Learn to mix an incredile CLEAN AS HELL song, with every instrument where it has to be, audible and toned how you want it. Then you can add what you want and distort what you want. Cheers, Kentu.
That's what I've been doing. You could easily mix entire records with just kirchoff and tdr kotelnikov
@@PaulThird I use Pro C2 but love Kotelnikov's RMS detection for transparent comp
Almost two decades doing this "Mixing" thing, I've learned that this is an ongoing series of experiments. These days I simply listen. If I like it I keep it, If I don't like it I don't keep it. Great Video!
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I think the "Roll Safe" meme is my perfect answer for this video. You Nailed It!
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Selective and judicial use of saturation then going for the cleeanest mix possible. I believe you put that in good perspective. I've found that too much saturation simply makes everything sound muddy. I've also found that the best mixes always have a clarity to them. But I've fallen into the trap of over saturation many times, thinking it was giving me that vintage sound. Thanks for your perspective and analysis on the matter.
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I completely agree and now I’m more convinced that I was in the right direction after you showed the THD on the graphs. When I use analog emulation plugins, I usually turn off the ‘analog’ switch if there is one because I know they only add noise and will accumulate across several instances. I use them for their sonic curves/characteristics.
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great video!! love it..
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I was just asking this to myself the other day, after implementing channel strips on all my tracks, a tape machine and using a lot of compressor emulations. I didn't used a limiter on my mix buss, so I migh start doing that to see if I really like the amount of saturation I'm getting. Thanks for the video!!
Always worth a try 🤓
@@PaulThird hey Paul, in this comment chain is a bot trying to scam people
Yeah I'm just hiding them as they appear. It impersonates a youtuber until it's hidden and changes to another. Pretty severe bot
fully agree. its a balance of both that gets the best results. the biggest lesson i learned from my experience mixing records is to not add anything just because. make sure you know why and when to add something or else you wind up wasting time on stuff thats not really mixing. most of the time its still balance and automation that wins the day. love dumping the group vca faders to silence and bringing up a balance by feel and moving along to the music like im mixing a live show.
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Great piece!
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I would love to see a review of the Hilbe Mo 67 pre plugin! I’m really digging your honesty on this channel. Thanks 🙏🏼
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@@PaulThird what prize do I win? I don’t see the link
It's a bot. I'm trying to hide them every time they comment
Good shout mate. I'm definitely in the same position at the moment.
Sometimes all I want is the EQ curve that a piece of hardware has and not any additional harmonic material.
In the pre digital era.... engineers were battling against noise, now some plug ins have deliberately added noise or hiss that render them unusable.
Madness.
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Bravo Paul, you bring up a valid point as far as the latest Saturation craze these days. It's not unlike food seasoning, if you overdo it with your favorite spices then you spoil the dish.
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If everything has saturation then nothing sounds like it's saturated! It'll just be a mess😁🤘 great as always paul!
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Haha, true! :)
Yes. A transparent (good) mix lives from contrasts. If you don't create contrasts then you get too much masking and phase cancellation in a lot of frequency areas.
Your roleplayings are so damn funny. 😅 And I appreciate your explanations and thoughts about these marketing phrases, which become absolutely missleading false standards and clichees.
I wish I had seen your Black Friday Awarness video one week ago on a thursday. 😅🙄
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Always shedding the light with sound mind.
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Well the answer to the first question is almost a definitive yes for most people haha. Given the quality of free plugins now especially! Its nice to have a few flavors of saturation to choose from. Tape, tube, transformer, FET, etc. For me, I keep around the Kush Omega plugins as go-tos becauce I know them well, and they are fast, and switch in and out a few tape sims (usually ChowTape or Satin lately). But I'm coming at this from an electronic musician's perspective, where I am recording some hardware synths and some software synths, but I usually do want to impart a few flavors on them.
I also did some analytical tests of some of my saturation plugins and found that each Omega plugins did very different things to the shape of a sine wave, and the harmonic response. I think your point holds though, its easy to overcook a mix, and even easier to spend way too much cash if you are following plug release hype too closely.
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Great video. Confirms what i've been hearing. I really should take the time to analyse the tools i use for harmonic content, so i always know which path to take to the final stage. I've always been using my ears, which isn't wrong, but it would be a step more useful to know exactly what each tool is adding, especially with plugins, which as you've highlighted- may be doing something totally unexpected.
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Thanks Paul!
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I am using a neve orbit summing mixer these days it has a super subtle transformer, so I am just using Acustica mostly without the preamps engaged most of the time. I like the sound.
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Great editing :D, bring back Chad Paul in the future. Also, yea guilty, I probably waste money on too many plugins in total :D
Chad will make an appearance every now and then as it's quite a handy filter haha
Nowhere near a pro myself, as I only deal with my own stuff. What I'm noticing over the years, is that my sensitivity both in regards to the frequency and dynamic spectrum is increasing. Been quite ready to ride the in-the-box analog wave, but am noticing it is easy to overdo it. Thank you, for the good, geeky stuff.
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The most honest audio UA-camr
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I think it’s just a matter of dialing in the right amount and when you’re starting with ‘analog vibe’ the tendency is to crank it up going too far in the beginning. It’s all about balance. If you can apply some saturation or distortion and it improves the mix, then keep it. If it doesn’t, then dial it back. Mixing choices are a matter of degree.
Nice video rethinking the whole analog paradigm that seems to have been made popular by the plug-in manufacturers!
I agree. The more control you have the better imo. All a matter of taste. If it still sounds good to you compared to the rough then you go with it but at least you know instead of charging into a mix like the cool-aid man 🤣
Brilliant video
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The real analog sound is actually the compression to make sure the needle is not pushed out of the groove, so actually fabfilter would be enough.
Does seem like mixing wise the comps are where most of the harmonics are coming from when you go through mixing sessions.
I watched a fab dupont mix where he stuck a 76 + 2a on a vocal then put the legacy uad pultec over the top which is completely 100% clean
As always, great video. I just tested Mixbus the other day and i was rather surprised that the harmonic distortion was literally just a little shit on the screen XD so it's pretty clean.
Yeah mixbus is way cleaner than everybody thinks 🤓
Have you worked with it?
Nah but I've seen measurements from a Swedish daw study haha
I wish it was due to me using it but no.. Always the geekiest way possible 🤣
:D
Well, I bought it for 20 bucks, and I really like it for mixing. But I was looking for a secondary DAW, if you like yours it makes no sense, buying it. But the demo is nice to, you have a very low hiss every now and then, nothing annoying.
Very interesting topic. I think many people get caught up in chasing the plugins arms race so they think they need to use everything released on the marketplace. For the most part saturation/colouration comes from the mic preamps and certain compressors. Some mixing consoles have a sound or vibe but those are either out pricing reach or production for most of us. The MCI console was very coloured in it's sound vs an SSL which is indeed more clean.
People also forget when they are taking advise from the "pros" as you sort of touched on it as some of them mix completely in the box, because the tracks they are working on have already gone through high end analog gear and consoles and are usually very prestine and their job is mainly to make it all gel together by "mixing," they are not starting from scratch or a blank slate. They may tweak things but they are working with house money. So what may make perfect sense in their situation may not translate or be the most applicable in your/our own process depending on where you are whether you are songwriting, composing producing, editing, mixing or mastering. They all tie in at different times, but are completely different approaches, phases and processes.
True. That's why ive got my 2d/3d audio video where I talk about recreating that analog tracking vibe for those like myself who record super clean with no gear.
I now listen to the source when getting multitracks and make a decision on whether I think it's pretty coloured already. You can normally tell if something is super clean.
Good to have the option of whether you need to add the vibe or you don't 🤓
@@PaulThird exactly Paul like you said sometimes saturation is good and sometimes not because context matters. I swear there are like millions of saturation plugins out there and it's easy to get lost or thinking a track needs it when doesn't. I think people have to grasp the idea that less or more or a little goes a long way lololol
yep. been there done that and learned reeeaally quick.
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Yeah that’s a very good point, Paul! I do pass my super dry tracks through Neve pres/eqs and mild comps to tape just to give them a sound like they were tracked in an analog console. But during my real mix process, I use SSL native plugins, since they are clean and give me more control before later on seeing if I need too add saturation or harmonic distortion. I’m not a pro, but based on just pure logic as an engineer on another non-audio field, I wouldn’t want to work using inaccurate analog instruments or plugins that have too much variability in it. Trying to guess the result of these variabilities is one of every engineer’s nightmares 😂
I think what I've found is that you just need to chill the f**k out when you are mixing hahaha I was not chill when I first started out. I was coming in with a sledgehammer of plugins 🤣
I've seen a youtuber stacking more than 5 saturation on master bus (he doesn't even explain why he did that) and the commenters so amazed because he's such a high profile musician. So thank you for making this video.
I mean if the end result was superb then happy days but me personally I've completely stripped my 2bus to mixroom, bassroom, Gulfoss and lift 3. All clean bar lift 3 which still isn't really adding much saturation, very light.
Where before I was ssl gbus, pultec, diamond colour eq, 33609 + parallel rear bus with an 1176 smacking 😅
I'm way chilled these days but that's still just me and my approach 🤓
@@PaulThird so you don't use any mix bus compression? CMIIW
Also this rear bus parallel stuff is so hyped on the internet, almost like a must-have magic bullet but everytime I apply the technique on my mix it doesn't sound good lol.
Lift 3 has a few compressor options so I use one of those doing 1-2db. Small bit of saturation, sometimes not at all, hit the clipper pretty hard, utilise the HP & LP filters, bit of width, add the tiniest bit of high shelf
As you can see I get lift to do quite a bit of lifting 🤣
@@PaulThird oh I see it now. 😁 Thanks a lot for the replies and great insights. Subscribed.
@@PaulThird How do you find it compares to your tradtional gbus and pultec setup ? (which is like the classic 'hit record' sound)
Metric Halo, FabFilter, SOnnex are what I use for EQs all pretty clean, the Qs, filters are all slightly different and get me where I want to be. Certain guitars I like the API Eqs - fast to get the sound I need.
My busses are where I might push levels into "analog" plugins because I like the "grit" it might give. I get big punchy mixes that don't have a fuzzy cloud/sheen around them - stuff I hear a lot with certain company's "analog" plugins.
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Very nice video Paul, thank you!
Saturation+saturation+saturation+saturation ends up in distortion
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Airwindows, - BussColors4 or ToTape5, - used sparingly are all that's needed for added warmth, if required.
If you can hear saturation having an obvious effect, especially over a whole mix, you've probably used too much.
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All that is needed is to do what you like the sound of, it’s very simple.
I've purchased many analog emulations of every kind of effect. I can tell you from experience that none of it made me a better mix engineer or a better musician.
None of it made my music better.
I got used to using the gear I purchased, I focused on being very discerning with every aspect of my music from sound selection to arrangement to subtle effects use, many small changes over time. I'm never afraid to chuck sounds, effects, whole sections of arrangement, anything that annoys me or gets in the way. ONLY this discernment has made me better.
Saturation or no saturation, I try everything and trust my gut if it feels off. I'm always in rough draft mode until I find the magic. And that usually happens by chance. I haven't figured out a better way. It's slow and methodical, but it works.
If I could do it again, I'd save my money and learn the tools I already had until I learned how to make it sound magical.
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I loooove the UAD Pultec. I think it sounds brilliant. A few have said how much “better” the NoiseAsh one is because of the “color” lol. Now I know what they’re actually saying haha.
There is a big difference in that department! haha
I always mix into my Mastering-Chain. The best way to know how a mix works at the end is to hear it the way it is edited in the end ;))
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Great Video.
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It seems like often it's important when doing these kinds of analysis to also include, when referencing 'big time engineers' using or not using certain things, the actual analog chain that was used when recording the records they're mixing. Often people mention how big engineers don't use tons of analog channel strips and whatnot, when it still seems like a fairly often occurrence that the reason they don't is because they don't need to... because it was actually recorded on a real desk in a well treated studio and they're mixing it after it's seen a good amount of harmonic enrichment and good engineering. They aren't necessarily EQ'ing with a SSL 4kG channel strip for the harmonics because it came in through a full SSL desk and ran through that whole circuit on the way to being recorded.
It still just comes back down to 'does the music need it' rather than 'am I trying to magically make the sound "better" by doing more and more and more'. It can be ok to use serial distortion, but do it because it needs it not because you just think more will be better. Simplicity usually leads to a better result, and for things recorded without a rich analog chain, analog emu plugins are an often useful way to give a signal the color you want.
If it's my own stuff through the audient pre's then I'll use acustica blond pre mixer and stuff but on most multitracks I'm pretty clean now as I do it to taste
AC/DC taught me that distortion is anti fat/big/rich, very early on. Just get clean settings and loud and hit things hard with a thick pick with a quality amp that responds to that. That's the perfect AC/DC guitar tone. Very valuable mindset. (Of course, I now run every piece of guitar through a fuzz box and treble booster because it does things I like and is hyper dynamic. (A fuzz face can be very clean with low output pickups and volume knob down then start to tease with square waves as you hit it harder, then is full on)
Some of this video may seem obvious to viewers, but it's a really important thing to check when you're newer. I used to parallel saturate my 2bus on every mix with a tape plugin for more warmth/cohesion, and I thought it was amazing. One day I turned off the parallel channel to do this listening test and you know what? It sounded better! I ended up only leaving parallel saturation on for 1 out of 6 songs on the EP I'm working on because it only actually sounded better in 1 instance.
We forget that A/Bing plugins needs to happen at EVERY stage of the mix, including A/Bing against nothing too.
100%. Because I mix way cleaner now I can hear when I feel like I would want to add saturation where before, there was already saturation there so adding more never really gave me that real audible effect. Even just now I'm near finished a mix but I feel like I want a bit of grit in the choruses and some drive at the very end when he basically starts screaming as the song is climaxing. I know in my head if I use a parallel 1176 hitting hard I can bring it in the choruses just a tad and really bring it up for that end part. Same with the drums at the end. Send the drum bus to an 1176 or kramer pie aux and smash it so I can dial that in to give the drums that big room round so I can add in that intensity.
I can add that in and know it'll work cause I've created almost like "saturation headroom" where I can add it in and you can hear what it's adding in contrast as opposed to saturating saturation and expecting it stand out in a sea of saturation
@@PaulThird SPAM ALERT: Paul is the other comment here from you? Looks like a hacked account impersonating you
I'm hiding all the telegram things as they appear. Hopefully the spam bots will stop soon enough as I continue to hide them
I had this with the puigchild waves plugin. It used to be my go to for dulling then i got the UAD Fairchild 670 and it is amazingly clean you have to really push it to make it sound as "bad" as the puigchild.
I stopped using the Puigtec years ago. Everything I compared it to creamed it in my opinion but most likely due to the aliasing. I'm away to do another hardware fairchild comparison soon with the tone empire firechild as the Acustica ultramarine cripples my cpu haha 😅
Great video thx :)
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Moderation like everything. I like noisy music so i use everything from saturation to straight up distortion
Good to know I've been dealing with my saturation modeling properly. My rule is always to turn it up till I can hear it, then back it down to where it's just audible. Turning the saturation up too much just turns it into distortion. I did replace my EQs with channel strips, in part because I wanted the analog flavour, but I still don't turn them up that high. They are more useful for the workflow to be honest. Knowing that I have only three bands and two shelves forces me to think of my decisions more carefully. At the end of the day, saturation is a tool like anything else, and too much of anything probably won't sound that good.
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Great video
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I think ur a pro!!! Or at least way closer than many of us that r trying to get to wer u at
Appreciate it man 🤜🤛
Omg been waiting for someone to address this analog hype
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All the plugin buzzwords and update plans have kinda killed my love of plugins. I went hybrid last year and found the cleanest console I could for the money and the very small amount of saturation it imparts(fairly little actually) along with the summing matrix are my "sound" now. I only reach for channel strips when mixing hybrid if there is a certain characteristic I like. That being said, ITB it is mostly ssl and maag.
Overall giving myself less choices and forcing myself to work within the bounds of what hardware I have more than plugins has made my mixes significantly cleaner than I was leaning towards in the box trying to emulate a "console" sound.
You are very spot on with this phenomenon. If I want more vibe in the mix, then I simply turn up the trim on my master fader until the mix is hitting around +20dbu which gets it close to clipping with some oh shit room.
Weirdly enough I mix with either a conservative bus comp or nothing at all, so I can fine tune the bus comp to be as unobtrusive as I can, since I haven't found a bus comp plugin that doesn't really skew the stereo image and kill width(still saving for a bus comp for the chain)
I then give some additional eq and then use a true peak limiter and hit my loudness target without killing my dynamics, and if it is needed to be super loud as hell i add a clipper before limiting.
Just what I do, I plan on mixing into a chain once my chain is OTB.
Yup, the cleaner I mix, the better results I get for me.
I was finishing up a country mix today and ended up sticking a fairchild & uad tape at the end of the female vocal chain as I felt the vocal was maybe just a bit 'too clean and pretty'. Needed just that touch of smoothing and tiny bit of grit to sit it nicer in the mix and take away the sterile feeling I was getting
Mixing clean allows me to have that level of control where I can add in colour cause I know the source actually requires it for that specific mix. Mixing to taste is better for me even though I deliberated for a good 15 minutes whether I should have been adding it 😂
These days I'm just using P42 by Pulsar Modular. And it sounds great!
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There is a clear audible difference with the Neve MBP red silk on full, it's not subtle either. Also much depends on how much each unit is being driven.
I was thinking about this the other day. It feels like there's a growing race amongst plugin devs to have the most "analog" sounding software where the saturation and bit reduction is being dialed up more each year... though, it is what the market wants! There really is a fine line and caution you must take, just like how the pre amps in your average audio interface sound best when they aren't super cranked up. Push them too far and you get that audible noise and saturation which will destroy your mix if it affected every track. I feel like some context is being lost as time goes by -- soon people will just think of old analog gear as glorified cheap cassette recorders!
I agree. The devs are simply delivering what many are asking for which is more saturation. Lots of acustica guys complain about the eq's and pre's cause they are really clean and low in THD where I'm like... You asked for the analog and they gave you the analog haha if that's how the gear measures then that's how it measures 🙃
I agree though, context is one of the biggest things you can learn in mixing. Reflection is key and many can see it as over thinking a mix but if you don't actually add that much plugins then it's not really hard to compare and look back at what you've done where doing that with a gazillion plugin chains is a lot harder, not just from a comparative element but also for tracing back your steps
Paul hit the nail on the head on stacking plugins. Devs are probably making them so aggressive because people cannot hear the damage they are doing, or their track counts are incredibly small comparatively. I have never mixed a self recorded band that has more than 32 tracks(multiple takes included) but I have mixed stuff that was recorded more professionally and the people recording felt the need to have more than double that(still about half what "big name" sessions have mind you) and if you put channel strips on every channel and your busses, you may just be fighting the mix a lot.
That being said it is fun for more vintage aesthetic songs to decimate fidelity and make it sound like a 17 year old was at the helm of a neglected trident console and seldom calibrated tape machine 50 years ago to get the vibe of some old tracks, but this is the exception for me rather than the rule for mixing. My aesthetic is traditionally clean and punchy.
Def me! haha ive been suspecting and wrestling with oversaturating, Recently ruined a great song mix by saturating the synths and instruments so much and then everything became so unintelligible and mushy, found myself undersaturating what i'm really supposed to! man, learning in this university of UA-cam definitely aint easy.
There certainly is a lot of learning.. It never stops! Haha 😅
I don't 'ruin' my mixes by using too many analog emulation plugins. But I do create extra work for myself when I have to go back and figure out what plugins are putting too much distortion through my limiter. I often find that I put something on a track at some point during the mix, but by the end it's doing more harm than good, and I need to remove it. So I go through the mix, starting at the mix bus and working down to the tracks, A/B-ing all my plugins to make sure it really sounds better. So I try to get the mix out from under all the extra stuff that I thought would be cool at some point, but is really just strangling my mix. In the end, I like to think I have a clear mix, but I certainly don't take the shortest route to get there.
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I wonder wether the Ruletech is modeled after a vintage Pultec which may (or may not) distort more than a recent model.
I've akways thought that
I remember one afternoon after a long mixing session we took a break to reset our ears.After a 40-minute break, we came in and immediately noticed how thin our mix had become.
Everybody started looking at each other like ..did you touch anything before we left?.
So we looked at every single track and it seemed like we were adding tube and saturation left and right and did not even notice until we unplugged our ears for a while.
We turned off every instance of all these plugins and the mix became fat and wide and punchy and just heavy.
Nowadays I use it very lightly and sometimes only on my final bus.
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Recently I was wondering if we were better off with having good, surgically clean EQs and compressors and then add a little bit of saturation or clipping at the end of the track if it needs it. So no channel strip plugins, no magic EQs just plain, old digital stuff and a saturation of your choice at the end.
That's how a few pros I know mix. Clean eq's like pro Q3 and saturation to taste 🤓
I thought of this too. Clean EQs and compressors in all channels and a Melda Produkctions MSaturatorMB on some channels to add harmonics. Another advantage: you need less plugins.
I pretty much mix this way, 85% I just used the Nuendo channel eq and dynamics, which are clean, and use some analog emulation compressors where i need, but for the nature of the compression of them, not to add saturation
@@PaulThird I was watching some Dan Worrall (about the EQs he's using) and this can only be a problem if the EQ itself is non linear. That's hard to show in plugin doctor, but a good null test can help or a true blind a/b test (this is how I convinced myself I'm not playing double for a more expensive sound card).
If you use the fundamental sweep via the harmonics it's set up to give you results which cater for non linearities. I think I covered that in the plugin doctor tutorial 🤓
Thanks Paul! Got any advice for my newest vid?
Such a great video. I've pulled way back from analog emulators lately, using clean eqs and compressors on individual tracks and often using la2a and 1176 style emulations on buses. That said, I still would like to learn how to hear the saturation I'm adding better. Any advice on how to sharpen my ears for that?
Level matching and bypassing. I learned a lot via the noiseAsh pre video I made as afterwards I was able to take all the instances, print a mix, bypass (ensuring level matching) and print that mix. Listen via HOFA blind test side by side and compare the differences.
If you level match everything you do then you'll start to hear what's actually going on without being distracted by level. You make an eq move, add a pre or saturation plugin, compress.. Make sure it's level matched properly and bypass in and out within the context of the mix.
And ALWAYS go back after you've added quite a few colourful plugins and bypass in and out again. Bypass them all, or 2 or 3 if you need to and decide whether the colour that's built up works well for that mix.
Its just constantly re-checking your decisions. I found the cleaner i mixed, the more I could hear the effects of saturation and I started to know when I needed it and how much.
Teach yourself how to hear what an 1176 sounds like. Id like to think I can hear when an 1176 has been used on a vocal a lot of the time. Probs wrong a lot but I can still listen to a vocal and have a rough idea of the processing. It's just a result of tons of listening.
@@PaulThird Great suggestions. Thanks for taking the time!
A good example is Dua Lipa. One of her songs came on in the car today and I was instantly like
"vocal sounds like it was tracked with an 1176 hitting pretty hard but I can hear but its still really coloured. Probs a 2a used after it."
Checked it there and I know the mix engineer used a uad 2A in mixing due to his mix with the masters clip and when I checked online apparently the recording engineer slammed her voice with a 76 haha
That's just me listening in the car haha I stopped enjoying songs ages ago 🤣
This is interesting as I have been wrestling with this issue. I tend to use Neve emulating plugins for the color. I tend to recreate the console by throwing the channel strip across my whole session and just using that for everything. Since I also make music in the box and record straight to the computer without any analog emulation it seems to make sense to do what I'm doing as it's not "too much" and is just right. You're completely spot on about the SSL console. They were aiming for the digital clarity we have today in the DAWs.
So I'm wondering if the BX Console N is generating too much color. I like it, but I wonder if it's too colorful for mixing music that was recorded analog, and perhaps I should use the metric Halo in those situations. For everything else use my Neve plugins if the source audio is colorless. 🤔
I really respect your opinion on this matter and am a huge fan of your videos. What do you think?
You know me... Id compare it 🤣 I've got metric halo but never used it yet. I would do a quick mix with the console N, then a quick mix with the metric halo (both mixed intuitively) and then level match and compare. That's the only way to know what you prefer.
How you personally use the curves, q's and compression of each will lead the way.
For the colour test simply scrap the eqs and just compare passthrough the compressors. Print 2 files. Level match and compare.
The console N might not be that coloured. You never know. Depends on the THD settings as well
@@PaulThird yes I will have to do that. 😎
The beauty of brainworx is you can really dial back the thd, noise, and how hard you are slamming it. If I find myself using api and neve strips heavily in the mix I dial back a ton of that stuff and gain stage within the strip, because I am mostly after the eq or comp sections.
@@MrNEWDY that's a good idea. Hopefully Brainworx will make a THD all control for the console N someday like they do with the newer ones. It's no biggie to dial it back one by one as I mix however. 😊
1. yes saturation builds up over multiple tracks. I think I too use not a lot of saturation. I feel like it often diminishes the openess, clarity and pokyness. Vocals get the most saturation in my mixes, usually. Guitars is more about fuzz and distortion to me. Drums more about feedback and compression/clipping (not saying I'm not ever simply saturating them - I do).
2. yes eq filters have a big impact sonically - without dirtying it up (very underestimated imo, think I already wrote that once or twice)
3. yes, checking what your mix does with a limiter makes sense, but it also makes sense to not mix into a limiter (unless you're going to master it), because you don't want to make decisions based on someting that will not happen. Beware of people who say they "mix into a limiter" what they very well might mean is: they routinely check with a limiter (while mixing) every now and again, but are not actually "mixing into it".
4. do whatever works for you.
The limiter thing has been working for me so I'm happy with the results 🤓
Since I went hybrid I almost never use any plugins with saturation. My gear sounds much cleaner then emulated plugins indeed. If I use plugins for eq and compression I always go for clean plugins like PRO-Q3 and PRO-C2.
I ad analog saturation on the mix bus. Like a transformer from Rupert Neve. Or some warmth from the Phoenix Compressor or the Whitestone P331. Still that coloring is more subtle then most plugins.
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i wondered when you'd change the title. surprised it's not: "DON'T waste money and RUIN your mix with SATURATORS!" you had a good run with it!
I might still change it but depends on if it keeps staying above YT expectations. It's been up and down with views but just now up by 9% which is good. Been a good run for me the last 3 vids 🤓
Hey Paul, have you made any videos on how you do these tests? I'm sure it's in whatever is the first video for each method, but I'm late to the partee, so I'm at a loss on how to find the info
Probs that one
ua-cam.com/video/ohicgKSmC2w/v-deo.html
@@PaulThird Thank you!
I mix into mild compression using TDR Nova. I decided to try adding Loudmax to the master bus when I exported a mix to be used as a backing track for a saxophone forum. It changed my snare sound, even at just a 5db reduction, it really brought out a boing boing tail on the snare. I'd already bounced the snare down to a single audio track, so now it's a pain in the bum to fix.
It might have been a good idea to mix into a limiter from the start!
That's why i do it. No surprises when you mix into it.
@@PaulThird I mix into Nova just to tame my unprocessed vocals mostly, but overall, the general mix just gets around 3db gain reduction. I just put the limiter on because I thought to bring the level up a bit as I thought I'd finished with it for backing track purposes and wanted to make it available to people on the Cafe Saxophone forum (I can't play saxophone well enough to do my own lead break, so I'm hoping someone else will!).
How much gain reduction do you aim for? Is aiming for around 6db is too much after 3db from a compressor like Nova?
Also, I'm thinking of trying to tame the snare tail with compression, what attack value would generally let the transient on a snare through and affect the tail?
Don't feel compelled to answer, I'm sure you're a busy man, but I would value your insights and suggestions.
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Im going into the first plugin of my mixbus at -18dbfs for gain staging as I've got the sonimus Britson routing before the 33609. The 33609 is only shaving off like 1db before the limiter just to shave off any additional peaks and I normally raise the output so its hitting the limiter at around -6dbfs. I then normally aim for about -12lufs with the limiter so my mix is still competitively loud.
All of this is set up before I start mixing so I can mix into that chain.
For a snare I'd normally suggest a slower attack and a faster release for that purpose. The slower attack will let more of the transient through. Being honest though every snare is different so you need to adjust by ear. There will never be a golden setting for you. Id suggest maybe a db or 2 of compression on the snare, another dB of compression on the drum buss and you'll find that the snare peaks are managed pretty well before they reach your 2 bus.
Just don't over compress unless your snare hits are super dynamic and all over the shop. If you've got a good consistent drummer you shouldn't really need much or any compression on the actual snare. Drum buss would probs do the trick.
Or add some saturation to shave off some peaks if need be.
My advice is just experiment and find a method that works for you 🤓
@@PaulThird Thanks mate! 🙂👍 I appreciate your input. I''m a fairly new subscriber to your channel, going through your past videos, and I must say I'm very impressed with how you go about things!
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Thank you
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Saturators should be used subtly in stages. Not just for color, but to increase percieved loudness while lowering or maintaining nominal level, and saving headroom. If you saturate correctly, you won't have to squash your mix when it hits the limiter.
Example: instead of turning up the fader on the kick 1 or 2 db , try some subtle saturation. You'll get a louder sounding kick, without having to push the fader, and you may even turn the fader down to compensate. The extra headroom can save your mix when it hits the final limiter.
I know. I covered all this in my arboreal pimax video. That's why I said in this video that I personally feel that there is a certain limit of how much vibe and perceived loudness you can get out of a track until you start making things sound smaller and less defined.
I'm not saying don't use saturation, I'm just asking the question of 'are you possibly adding too much' that's it really.
Just puting out my thoughts after doing tests myself and listening to other engineers I trust.
I feel that there is a certain line you cross where its too much but that's just me
Hey Paul, one question I'm sure you've answered before. How's the visualization process called? It's only doable on RX? Thanks!
Tbh I don't know of any other spectrographs, theres bound to be but I only know of rx's
Great video! And I totally agree loads of people are overdoing it. However, I think its important to distinguish though between professional mixers who have been sent tracks recorded through fantastic gear like 1073 style preamps and LA 2A's where the subtle saturation has tamed the dynamic range and peak levels and your average joe using a scarlett focusrite. Average Joe will be able to go so much further overboard ,and probably need to, to achieve perceived loudness (chopping off spiky peaks and bringing up the body) of the guitar he just recorded into the direct input. Digital doesnt soften the peaks for us every step of the way like the Analogue gear used to, and its important to be mindful of that.
I did have that in the original edit but I thought the video was too long haha I was talking about a video I've got talking all about how you can take clean digital recordings and use certain plugins to give you more of that vibe and like why you would really only do it on clean sterile recordings.. But yeah the segment was adding another 2 mins so I cut it 🤣
Sorry, commented half way through the video and you do mention this... ha ha.
I was thinking there that I still kept a tiny section going on about it in some form haha
Dude, I've watched two of your videos and it's already changed EVERYTHING! First off, the aliasing from hitting plugins too hard - guilty as charged, everything sounding flat, must be because I don't own a Fairchild... Then my mix sounding spikey and prickly as fuck because I've used every bit of "mojo" I can get my hands on... I can't thank you enough. This is the no BS channel I've been looking for. I do have one question about mixing into a limiter, something I've started doing and am really enjoying - do you leave the limiter on when you send to mastering? Or is it supposed to be a guideline? My impression is that if you take the limiter off before you bounce, the mix is going to sound completely different. Thanks again!
I was using a limiter heavily at the end but I'm using a lot of soft clipping on certain tracks and buses before going into a limiter now so I don't need to hit it anywhere near as hard. I'll mix it into it at around -10lufs max dependent on the song and then take it off at the very end now when going to the mastering engineer.
The client recieves my mix with the limiter on at the competitive loudness (what I mixed at) but if they want it mastered then there's a bounce with the limiter off but my mixes are pretty loud without limiting now. As long as its not limiting or actually clipping the output in the mastering engineers mixdown you'll be golden.
@@PaulThird Nice one, thanks for the reply. I think that makes more sense! Basically, it's okay to be limiting whilst mixing but take that off before mastering? Looking forward to more videos!
What ye doin' to me, man? Forgetting the fact that you're smarter that me, you've come to conclusions that I'm slowly finding. So, instead of buying/using more and more 'sat' plugins, and then using De-essers, Dynamic EQ's, or Soothe2 (I've only ust bought) to remove all the crunchy, fizz and harshness, I could just use less? Everything in the wrong hands (mine) will kill ya mix if over used - but knowing what over-use is, is the key point. This idea impacted me today, when I rationalised my typical gain staging process, turned off a load of plugins, and got a great mix (and wasnt swimming through a warm blanket of harmonic fuzz, where i have to push the 4k up on the the kick, to get it it to cut) with far more clarity where the punch shone through. Without a mentor, it's necessary to make the mistakes first, then have the lightbulb moments, that clear the way, but this channel helps, because you share your real experiences
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This is so me!
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Fair play you don't talk shit like 99% of the usual home studio studio cvnts on y-tube. Well done mate your message was clear as fook. :)
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Hi Paul, can you please upload this sinewave sweeps from the hardware to somewhere? I want to compare them to the plugins I already have...
Dunno where I'd upload them tbh
@@PaulThird You can upload them to Dropbox or Google Drive and post the link to them in the description.
Nailed
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