My Modern Cable Railing Stair Disaster - How NOT to Set Metal Stair Posts
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- This job was a head scratcher. Using the "Cable Bullet" post/cable system really made my head spin. I'll show you the mistakes I made and the issues I failed to foresee as I positioned and set my metal posts on this modern staircase. To support content like this check out my amazon store and product links in the notes below.
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There were a lot of limiting factors starting out on this install that really limit your ability to adjust things. First off was code requirement for the 6" sphere under the bottom cable, that meant my intermediate posts and bottom landing post could only be pushed up so far forward towards the nosing or the bottom cable would be too high and not pass code. Next issue was handrail height, I actually had the handrail as low as I was comfortable with meeting code, so I couldn't move my posts backward as it would drop the handrail too far or the bottom cable would hit the nosing. So I couldn't go forward, and I couldn't go backward.
The posts pretty much had to be where they were at. On the top rake post I had to skip the bottom cable hole, which was fine, otherwise it would have been way back into the loft area and looked really weird with the balcony rail section.
With this system you have to shift your mindset, whereas normally its best to start with your handrail height and visualize from that, you can't do that here, its your bottom cable that is the critical issue. The bottom cable has to pass code and all posts have to be in plane so that the cable passes through straight as it matches the rake angle. As long as you know your bottom cable is straight, and you will be ok with your handrail height, you have to make up for the other layout issues in your uprisings and odd return pieces like I did at the bottom. Its the only way to make it work because you are essentially locked into a 1-2" area on the tread where your posts have to be positioned in order to hit handrail height code, and 6" sphere code under the bottom cable. It is really a pain.
Add to that the fact that an inspector can come along and pull the cables apart and fail you if you don't meet the 4" and 6" sphere tests, lets just say I'm not in a hurry to do cable railing systems. The other issue is OVER TENSIONING the cables which is easy to do. This can bow your posts, or break your handrail fittings from the pressure... So many layout issues, so many limitations, and so many possible code compliance problems...
I was just about to write that you couls move the newels 'up' or the intermediate posts 'down' to adjust thei height relative to the handrail, but I see what you mean about the lower cable needing to be as close to the tread nose as possible. I'm glad you didn't stick with the blocks, looked like what it was, a kludge. Nice job, you did great.
Cable rail systems look different and slick but in practice, they don't meet code. The purpose of the codes are to prevent a toddler from getting caught up in it or falling through, which these stupid cable systems never pass. All inspectors should be failing these systems outright, they just don't properly substitute vertical balusters. They are just a bad idea IMO.
Next time think about hiring a good local metal fabricator to make your posts.
Good job it looks good
I work/sell custom made stainless steel cable railing systems. Something that is going on custom stairs shouldn't have to be modified/swapped/moved around till it fits or anything else you did in your video. Let's talk soon.
@@AV036 This was explained later in the video and corrected as shown here 16:27
You are the finish carpenter everyone hopes they get. The one who care more about his conscience than his wallet. Great work sir looks beautiful!
100% agree..a lot of people can do what Spencer does but they don’t..but he seems to care & that’s lost anymore..I tell people all the time I’m not better than alot of carpenters I just care..your name spreads quick in this small genre..my dad always said if you can’t do it right then don’t do it at all
What a nightmare, seems like you were completely screwed over by the manufacturer of the handrail kit. Good on you for having the humility to show your “mistake” and how you fixed it. The end result looks great as always. Keep up the good work!
Wasnt screwed over thats the design of them you cant just alter angles when there is specific holes and pivot points
For sure a poor design that the company could fix on production
@@keithbyrne4872 I agree with you, but the company obviously knows this is a problem and could include a little better instructions. They should include the sketch that he got after he called and they sent it. Something like this is enough to make a person use another product the next time...especially after wasting a whole day that could be fixed with a small piece of paper
I’ve always heard that it’s not a mistake until you walk away from it. Great job! Col. 3:23.
That's some wisdom right there.
Thanks. This one brief comment completely changed my prospective on mistakes that I make. On Friday I made a mistake that I could probably get away with but all day Saturday I felt bad until I decided to rip it out on Monday and redo it. I will not get paid Monday but I now feel good!
I take my hat off to your honesty and integrity. We are all human!
I was seeing those blocks and thinking he’s not gonna leave those! Good call.
If you couldn’t get it straight away, I don’t think many could , thanks for sharing this with everyone mate 👌 it’s teaching everyone to persist with these type of situations, not just handrails
I love the comment about things going so well early that you might even get cable run that day. I have been there many times over the last 40 years. Made me laugh. So true.
It never fails, does it. The ol "This shouldn't take too long " jinx.
That one hit home for sure. Lol.
Carpenter/furniture-maker/handyman here with 35 years experience. Now these are the kinds of videos I love where I can actually learn something. Thanks for having the humility to share: excellent video.
Dude! I LOVE your integrity and quality mindset. Too many people say "eh, it's good enough", not you my friend, what a great craftsman!
What a skilled professional! Dude, total respect for what you did there. I knew when you said one option was to put spacers on top of the two posts it was NOT going to look good. I think you probably knew that too but it wasn't until you saw it that you decided you couldn't sign off on that. Just like another comment someone made, you are the guy everyone hopes they hire. It cost you a day of labor but saved you your reputation and expanded your knowledge and experience. GREAT WORK.
You are the best and honest finish carpenter
The final product looks great! Carpentry is all about problem solving and you sir are a master. A few months ago, I did some cable railing and what helped me avoid some of these issues was that I fabricated my own metal posts and drilled them on-site. It was a royal pain but after careful measuring and making a drilling jig, it came out nice.
We all live and learn. But these lessons are never forgotten. Great content 👍
If you never made a mistake it’s because you have never done anything 😁.
When you had the 7/8" blocks in i started laughing and yelling nooooo!!!!!! Glad you agree and took one in the self esteem and fixed it.
Nice fix. I didnt figure out what you were saying until I saw your solution. Then I realized its just a parallelagram. Doh! The little return at the beginning sets the angles so that they match each other. Thank you for showing us, I don't want to do this mistake myself!
Spencer I have been doing carpentry for 33 years and interior stairs for over 15 years...I am not easily impressed. You impressed me. Great work ethic and fantastic job in the end.
The important thing is that you stuck with it, kept analyzing the situation and was willing to re-do work at possibly your expense to make it perfect. That’s an admirable and increasingly rare trait. I’ve seen too many people leave their jobs with problems with the final detail because they either can’t see that there are cosmetic or code compliance issues, or don’t care. The little time you lost on rework is nothing compared to the long term benefit of maintaining a reputation for quality work.
Well done and thanks for sharing
Very surprised that the sketch wasn’t a part of the installation instructions
LOL!
They never are.....instructions are useless ....idk how many times instructions were so far off or missed steps.....they just dont put any thought into them.....only meant to be read by people who assemble that very product everyday it seems.....alot of it probably has to do with manufacturing in china.....instructions used to better years ago......if you produce a product they should have clear well laid out instructions that any journeyman or even high apprentice can read and install......
This man should not have to call the company to install this railing with his experience and skillset....just few weeks had issue with shower trim (expensive) that didn't come with right set....had to call company to get the revised set and those were wrong and was 3rd revision sent to me cpl days later....lol.....
On shower trim which is pretty basic but they sure complicated the heck out of it......course like Lewis I ate cost and downtime.....and 2 veteran licensed plumbers as well
@@kirkdunn1379 Couldnt agree more. Yes; call me paranoid but I swear the assembly guides have illustrations that don't match the steps and other various missteps. Gotta have the skills to pay the bills!
@@TerryPullen Something tells me Terry understands haha.
I applaud you for your persistence. I've seen many people start throwing thing around and getting mad. But, you thought it out till you came up with the right conclusion. I also admire you for showing your mistake, many people would not do that because their pride would not let them. But, you learn from your mistakes. This way you show others and help others as to what to look for. Great job. Keep up the good work.
Wow--Thanks so much. The other videos make it look SO EASY! Excellent work.
It's pretty cool that you're confident enough in your abilities and ego in order to show these mistakes so that other folks can learn from them. Thanks.
Scared me for a minute when I thought you were going to leave the spacers, I have been there though. Looks much better now.
I would have left the spacers and been mighty proud of it?
Obviously I have not arrived yet?
@@zephyr1408 It's definitely personal taste when it comes to style but I think it wrecked the clean modern lines. I'm not much of a designer but I imagine the designer and or the homeowner probably wouldnt like it.
U are 100% right!
“Transition” and “pivot points” are two phrases that I will carry in my toolbox from here forward, thanks to you Spencer. What a great lesson you taught me. I’ve done tons of wood stairs and railings and grappled with these concepts but only used my eye to tell me if it’s right. Now I understand the logic and geometry of it! I hope you have a prosperous and Happy New Year - Jay Dawes
I applaud you for your tenacity and I am happy to see a lot of positive reviews from everyone. This project would eat the best of us no matter how experienced. This tutorial will save as a lot of heartache. Be blessed my friend and keep up the good work.
You know what makes any master carpenter or any master technician get better at what he or she does is To be able to fix the Mistakes he make and never be detected by the Home owner. Like creating an illusion where the eye is tricked into not seeing the finished product. Bravo my friend you just made an illusion.
I absolutely love that you took the time to redo it twice to get it right. Testament to your character and work ethic. I hope the homeowner appreciates the work.
Thanks for willing to let us learn from your trial. Most guys would have hidden the first two steps and gone straight to the final product. THANK YOU
Well done man! That's the difference with a real tradesman, a real teacher, showing the weakness the process of improving and not pretending to know it all. Fair play
Yes my friend the dreaded "what were they thinking?" "why didn't they just say that? "Lol
I would suggest the real lesson here is the integrity and determination it takes to do things right even when no one is looking. The customer trusts us.
It SUCKS doing things more than once after serious planning(plus the cost is always looming). 2 or 3 times might discourage a diyer. A non pro handy man might have used some spacer blocks etc.
We are the professionals. The last guys holding the line between" high quality" and"its good enough."
Thank you for sharing this content. You are a good example. Keep up the great work and honesty.
30 year stair guy here. I went through the same thing last spring. Called stair rail company but I didn’t get a drawing like you. I was pissed but I made it work just like you. My big problem was I was dealing with an ornate handrail. I became a woodcarver for 2hrs fabing (sp.?) the easements.
@@cockerluver Uhg. I can't even imagine. They were initially considering aluminum handrails. I would have found a different career path if it would have been metal hand rails...
"serious planning"
Your explanation of the problem and correction is perfect as is the final completion. That hand rail company owes you big time for your work in producing the video
Around 19:00 minutes, you do air quotes around "directions" and I almost spit out my coffee. Having punished my brain cells over the course of several installs, I absolutely feel your pain. Keep up the good work
So much Chinese stuff like that. They just give you a picture- black and white- overshadowed- can't even distinguish layers.
It is the epitome of throwing you in the deep end.
Its a American company out of Indiana. It's a super clean system. Cable bullet they have been good to me for sure
Thanks for the insight. Great video. Also good for you to make it right and not just say “good enough “.
Good work old man. And very good attitude. Thanks for sharing.
Outstanding tutorial with that type of handrail! It was interesting to watch you discover the issue, and come up with various solutions. Kudos to you for showing the mistakes before showing the final solution. Great video!
I applaud your effort.
seriously. its the difference between a craftsman/artisan and your average joe who would have just left it.
I wish more carpenters were like you.
Thank you These are the kind of videos that need to be made problems we encounter and problem-solving this happens to all of us at one time or another this is a mark of a true professional transparency
I’m not a professional like you, as a diy type who does what ever is necessary to achieve your level of quality I wrestled with several flights of stairs and encountered similar issues. Stairs, to me, have been extremely difficult to figure out. We gotter done but oh how frustrating.
Thanks for your honesty and sharing your learning experience. Wish there were more skilled craftsmen like you.
God bless you. From Missouri.
You are a true installer!.. Didn’t think I’d watch the entire video but I did! And boy can I relate 😅 sometimes you just have those jobs that become lessons
Great guy to show mistakes , 25 year carpenter and I go to you on tips . I have a 11 step staircase Monday morning. Yeah buddy
This is why I watch videos. Thanks for putting this up so I know what to watch for.
You're a good man. Your integrity shows. Thanks for the video.
Just watched this. Well done for 1. spotting the issues 2. Working out what to do to correct them and 3 actually carrying out the corrections! Think how many would’ve walked away and left it incorrect. Top work from a true professional! Thanks for sharing.
Thanx man !!! The shim or shims will be used on my interior if I have to . Great video and I watched twice to remember everything. Well Done 👏 ✔
Props to you for figuring that out!
Thanks for being honest with your struggle here and providing an actual way to fix it. Top quality work and integrity. great job.
There’s not a contractor, much less a DIY guy like myself that hasn’t run across these kinds of confounding situations. So glad you stuck it out and fixed it properly. It looks fantastic. Awesome work 👍🏻
I'm glad you're one of those guys who continue working on it until you get it right rather than those other guys who just say ah good enough
Impressive problem solving. Manufactures need a solution kit for such solutions
Your determination and integrity in performing flawless work tells me you are a highly skilled craftsman. Archimedes would have been proud of you solving this problem.
Came out beautiful. I appreciate you sharing. That drawing they emailed needs to ship with the parts in printed form.
Agreed. At least give me a heads up so I know what to watch for...
Insider Carpentry I wonder why they don’t also offer intermediate posts that are 7/8” longer. Seems like they could
Give two different looks without much effort.
I think bc the spacer would be different sizes based on the slope variations of the stairs. An adjustable post would be good.
Is it possible to use end post as intermediate posts?
@@thinktwice2433 Only if the posts holes on both sides were drilled offset at the angle of the rake.
I love watching your videos. Youre like a carpenter guru i wish i had in real life.
Very nice. You didn't take the easy way out, you did it right. And by flattening out the start of the railing it greatly improves the look
I was just asked to install one of those.
Thought I'd take a look on YT..
Thank you for the video!! And God bless!!!
Great video! People often underestimate the skill of contractors and all the years that we dedicate to perfecting the process. In the end we aren't just Builders or craftsman, we are problem solvers that constantly have to think outside the box to solve problems on the Fly and help the next generation of builders and craftsman learn and adapt to unforeseen issues. I've been building for over 40 years and every day is still a learning day. I appreciate you taking the time to make a video showing that we aren't just great at everything all the time. 👍
A true pro preserver, good to see you grinding thru. Great job. Ive been installing rails for 35 years. great to see you work
Learning, however you do it, is not a waste of time. Takes a big man to do a video like this.
Thank you for redoing the added blocks. I never would have figured it out.
Love watching and learning from a pro like yourself.
Looks great. Great explanation on problem/solution. You are in a class of elite for going the extra mile to get everything perfect
This video defines "grit". Great work Spencer. 👍
Education will always come at a cost! Absolutely love your integrity, spirit, and above all humility! Again......NICE work!
During my apprenticeship over 30 years ago I was told "You'll make mistakes. That's how you learn." They were right. I made a lot of mistakes and I learned from every single one of them. You figured it out in the end and delivered a good product. Great job!
The flat returns at the bottom really brought it together
Feeling your pain. Thanks for sharing your experience. Takes a lot of patience to not only figure out the issue, but also share what you learned. You're a great teacher.
Great job sticking it out and not giving up, speaks volumes of who you are 👍💪 thank you for sharing your lessons learned so well documented, I’m doing this for the first time in my own home that I just built so we’ll see how that goes.
We learn all the time. But admit mistakes is the rare thing from any workmen’s. You are quality man !
This video will definitely help others!
Having the patience and ability to take it as a learning experience shows that you are a good tradesman. You saw it through to a proper result. Respect to you. Greetings from England
Finished product looks great,hard lesson,we have all been there-kudos to you for seeing it thru.well done
Glad to see you got rid of the blocks and took the time to figure out the correct way to do it. The blocks looked like a quick fix. Now at least you can walk away knowing it's installed the way it's supposed to be. Took extra time but great job sticking to your work ethics. The final product is what you will remember in the long run.
wow thanks for sharing! That is a testament how the smallest detail can make a difference and what a true craftsman you are!
Been there..... Thanks for sharing that, we have all been there. I knew when I saw the spacers in there you could not leave it like that. That's why you are as gifted as you are, you don't settle.
If not for the short section, I would have been happy to leave the block spacers at that point 😄 (but with a routered/shaped edge)
Thanks for sharing the lessons learnt. Very valuable
I watched this nice man get beaten up by this situation and kept asking myself what company sold him this railing system without directions/explanations.
You analyzed the problems as they presented themselves and kept me fascinated while it turned into a geometry problem for you. Very nice work!
Then, "That, dumb little thing right there." turned out to solve everything and presto the geometric planets aligned and both sides match. Congratulations.
Glad you have the patience and high standards to figure this out. Thanks for the tips.
Great job! I could feel your pain.
Your final solution looks great!
Nice job hanging in there till you got it right . Thanks for sharing your mistakes. You have my respect.
Great video. True craftsman. Thanks for sharing
Looks great. remember "If all else fails, read the directions" LOL
You can either buy experience or you can earn it. And you definitely eared it on this job.
Job well done, your tenacity is inspiring. --- Thanks for the great lesson in building. ---
Well done brother. You had a problem, and you solved it. 💯
This would have done my head in. Thank you for the heads up!
Thanks for showing this, humble is rare in this trade, but to show you fail, but persist and have it done, was like little movie stared good then tragic strike, frustration almost panic, but at the end, succes, thanks keep it up, grating from Santa Cruz Bolivia. From a carpenter that Learn the trade there
We have all had a project like this. Thanks for sharing it. I'm sure it will help someone down the road. The tenacity to do it right is a great trait to have. The "school of hard knocks" can be very humbling but the lessons are invaluable. Wishing you continued success...
Thanks for the video. We all run into problems at times, it sure sorts the men from the boys, a true professional sticks with it till it's right.👷
Appreciate the insight into “reality strikes”. I suspect lots of redos and adjustments never make it into videos.
I have to say nice work! I applaud your humility to publish a video showing your mistakes. We recently went on an install of some custom cabinets we made in our shop and I had completely bombed the measurements. It resulted in having to modify cabinets on site, pay an electrician to move an outlet, and pay a plaster contractor to repair his finish! This things happen, but hopefully not very often. Keep up the good work!
Fantastic vid. This level of problem solving is what sets the higher skilled woodworker apart from the pack. I appreciated your perseverance on this one. As always, your attention to detail and your OCD towards woodworking makes you relentless in executing the best possible outcomes.
Cheers!
Norm from Montreal, Canada
Very humble of you to have shared this. Thank you, and awesome job!
Good video, great learning experience. Lol
Thank you for your humility and wanting to help others learn!
Felt your pain the whole way through, well done! And man, to keep recording! - Knowing from experience what it takes to make a video, all that extra time of documenting when all you want to do in those situations is get the job done because your already in the hole...well done, thx for the video and the time it took 👍
Well done; great patience; learned alot - many thanks
Man I love to watch your work. I applaud you talking through the frustration I would not have the patience to film while I worked it out in my head
I wish there were more builders like you who would stop and think about stuff like this. So many would have just hacked it together and left it looking like crap and shrugged their shoulders.
I completely agree, I was hired with another contractor to do finish work on upscale houses. He was a hack, I hated working with him, he would go behind me and change my work because he liked his way better, then blame me when they ask me why it looks jacked up. I caught him talking about me saying he would have done it the way I originally had it if they had let him do it to begin with. He told them he could do ship lap, that it was super easy for him. Turns out, he couldn't make outlet cutouts line up so I had to take over. He left a mess everywhere he went in those houses, tons of rework. They said they couldn't fire him because they needed him, so I quit, the company ended up getting sued. Sucks for the home owners. Now I work for myself.
I understand your pain. I'm installing cable rails for the first time, on 3 sets of stairs of different configurations. It's all finally working out nicely; but not without BS&T's.
Thinking on the hoof is what gives insight! Everyone learns by mistakes, although it wasn’t yours you made a better job than the original design. Well done and thank you.
Great job!!! I didn't like the second option either. You do excellent work.
Outstanding. You show a great deal of patience, persistence and professionalism. Thanks for the video. Cheers, David
This man is very humble. The problem is brand new junk
Finished product looks great. All too often what looks simple turns out to be the most complicated thing to do. Thanks for sharing your trouble shooting video.
You could see right away that the two rails were not parallel which indicated there was some problem. Kudos on your patient diligence. It came out beautiful.
That was a great example of how to work through your problems on site. As a remodeling contractor that is one of the most challenging aspects.
You do fine work and it looks amazing despite the challenges.