I feel Otter would appreciate these videos, Kyle. If you save another with his mistakes, he lives on. I'm internalizing the information. Thank you, Otter. (and Kyle)
I watched the earlier video you made about him. It really struck a cord with me. I found the campsite where he died (not far from me) and I plan on going there and if there is no memorial in place for him I am going to make one and leave it there. RIP Otter
@@KyleHatesHiking I've had similar thoughts of leaving roses on places along the trail that people died. They are out there for the same reasons we are. I figured unsolved murders get 2 roses.
In my profession we leave a specific symbol behind where anyone has died a preventable death. Doing something like this for hikers can serve as a sobering reminder to avoid complacency.
I think Otter would approve of you using his misfortune as a teaching tool. He was so concerned about the person who would find him. That says a lot about him. Rest in peace, Otter.
I don't. Would you want to be known for dieing due to being a dumb stoner?? That's exactly the label this kid just painted on him. I am a stoner and I would be rolling in my grave looking to haunt this Goody 2 shoes piece of s***.
@@funkymonkey529 your opinion. I happen to use cannabis daily for over 40 years. I'm entitled to my opinion. And Kyle is quoting Otter's own words in his journal. He didn't pick the information out of thin air.
@Tanya Joy Funny how it wasn't Mentioned in the last video. And i'm Right there With you I've been smoking an ounce A-week for about the last 40 years. I'm not some young puff and I understand the words that I type. But let me tell you. Just because you're over 40 doesn't mean that you're intelligent. It doesn't matter if Otter did say it himself. Just because one man was a moron doesn't mean that other stoners are stupid. That's like saying people that are stoned are bad drivers. But there is no evidence to support that their reactions are Actually slower Or that driving is even impaired. From my life long experience people that are stoned tend to do under the speed limit If not exactly The speed limit. They are extra cautious. They don't take chances and follow all the laws because they don't want pulled over. Quite the opposite of the common stereotypical perspective By people who barely smoke or don't smoke at all. It's the image that the guy who made the video is portraying. I don't know why you don't understand that but this really has relatively nothing to do with otter And everything to do with this young punk Who claims that he hikes yet somehow comes out with a brand new video every single day...
I'm a Colorado native & have a lot of experience in the backcountry. I have a very busy & demanding life, and so I typically take solo trips to completely disconnect from the outside world in order to reset and rejuvenate. I've made many careless mistakes over the years & have gotten lucky as I've learned. I started carrying an inReach Mini about 3 years ago so I could keep my wife posted on the progress of my travels, mostly to give her peace of mind (and to feel connected with her while I'm away). I've only _almost_ needed it once. I'm always grateful I have it. Better to have it & never need it than to need it & not have it. One of the best gear investments I've made.
I have an Inreach Explore. Yearly subscription. Was the first piece of equipment purchased when I began my hiking. I have used it. I can't express the importance, even the best at their craft have accidents. RIP Otter ! We have received your message !
I spent 17 years with Search and Rescue in the mountains of British Columbia and your list of mistakes is right on! I’d also add that recently with the explosion of outdoor adventurers, over estimating skill and fitness levels is also a huge mistake. Too many inexperienced people overestimating their abilities is a major reason for activating Search and Rescue missions. GPS, PLB devices like InReach and super light gear, etc., has given the opportunity for the inexperienced person to get themselves into serious trouble. There’s no substitute for in the field experience but It takes time!
Thank you. Yes, experience in n the real world is not so important to people anymore. It all has to be filtered through their technology. Not really the same thing. Having to stick your iPhone in front of your face and take a picture of that sunset is not the same thing as directly experiencing it.
This is why they have a warning on one of the grand canyon hikes that said NOT TO TRY TO DO IT IN ONE DAY and that HIKERS HAVE DIED. Or like on a beach in Monterey with warnings about it's tsunami like waves killing swimmers. Maybe it's Kruger-Dunning or maybe it's too much ego or inexperience...
As someone who hikes almost exclusively solo, I will NEVER hike with out a satellite emergency device again. FYI there are some that some personal location beacons that don’t require a monthly subscription- go out there and have a blast but be SAFE everyone!!
I can only second this: Personal Location Beacons are often if not always subscription free. Depending on the satellite network they work on, they even might have better coverage than satellite communicator devices like the inreach.
Honestly, "don't hike into the Cascades in November" equipped only as a fast thru hiker will carry you. Very few people are actually ever in danger of dying in this way, because most people wouldn't even consider attempting what he did. .
I’ll add that age has changed my abilities to hike. Like getting altitude sickness now at only 9000’. I didn’t know that was going to happen until it did. Similarly, Mischief on the Trail slipped on ice, hit his head and passed out with his feet in the water, got frostbite. Healthy young and experienced hiker, didn’t expect that either til it happened. I like how respectful this lessons learned was, Kyle. Thank you!
Don't feel bad about using tragedy to prevent further tragedies. Entire aviation industry reached it safety standards exactly this way - by cold analysis of all mishaps and turning them into lessons. I don't see any reason why not to use this approach for hikers (or any potentialy hazardous activity). Tears were shed for Otter, there is nothing we can do about it now but learn from it. We don't need another tragedy like this. RIP Otter.
I just watched the video about him yesterday and glad you made this follow up video to help people learn from his mistakes. I’m sure thats exactly what he would’ve wanted. RIP Otter.
I agree with all the points talked about. We have several outdoor rec deaths here in a Maine every season. From Hiking, Snowmobiling, Boating, Ice Fishing etc. Most break the basic guidelines of survival. Never a fan of weed, alcohol or drugs when in activities like this either.
I do find it funny how stoners are getting offended at your video. Yes weed affects your decision making, especially high doses of edibles. Not saying don't smoke or ingest on trail, but make sure you're being as safe as possible like by having a gps and letting people know what you're doing.
The InReach service center would have contacted the local authorities with the coordinates, they'd have looked it up and seen that it was in a snow-bound area. They've have sent out a fixed-wing search plane. They'd have orbited the area of the coordinates for long enough to see if he could be observed. Then they'd have sent out a helicopter (most likely a National Guard search-and-rescue team) and either landed nearby or lowered some personnel on a long-line.
Accident analysis is quite common in sports / activities where mistakes or accidents , though unlikely, can have severe consequences.This can be quite relevant in the outdoor hiking and camping sports since I suspect a high percentage of people are unaware that a chain of unfortunate circumstances can result in severe injury or death when at the surface conditions look benign.
Thanks Kyle. It's good for us new hikers to see those with experience have the same fears. Dan expressed some of his mistakes in his recent video about his rescue and it was very humbling.
I checked out Otter’s channel after your first video and was wincing every time he complained about heading out in snow in one of his final videos. He expected to be lucky enough one too many times
At 65 I have survived several near death events. It has made me slightly negligent in taking all precaution. My kids recognized and bought me a PLB. Look out for others...
This story is heartbreaking and there is a lot to learn from this and other stories like this. Weather can be unpredictable even in the best of times and you hear stories from experienced hikers, boaters, divers, etc about mistakes. I hope his friends and family remember all the beautiful happy times when they think of him.
Kyle, your comment on experience and confidence is right on. After 30 plus years of hiking/backpacking I am still almost always nervous or a little uneasy when venturing out for anything from an overnight to walking the Arizona Trail from the border to Flagstaff. Great job!
I feel like the biggest lesson people can learn is: Don't take unnecessary risks. Going out into the mountains in November was an unnecessary risk. He could have been prepared with a PLB and snow shoes and then it still would have been a risk, but the safety equipment and appropriate gear would have mitigated a lot of those risks. If you do decide to get a PLB, you still have a responsibility to be sensible and not take unnecessary risks, however.
Analysis of his mistakes. Debriefing them and learning from them is the most respectful thing a person can do in his memory. Letting the lessons of his story go unassessed , would be the most disrespectful thing a person can do.
I carry my inReach with me on my commute to and from work, simply because I drive through a couple of cell dead-zones. I won’t hike without it, period!
I watched your previous video. Yes Mountain madness can cloud the mind of any veteran backpacker. That late in the season on your own without any backup. Those are two fatal factors he already chose to except so anything else happens that would be the third strike. That’s why this is a tragedy, with any soloing adventure sailing,diving,climbing etc. One can only fall back on their training, experience, preparation and having the appropriate gear. Evidently Otter had two out of four and those are risky odds. Great job! Thank you for sharing this and hopefully we all can learn something out this unfortunate story.
Good job Kyle. It is important that people hear these kind of stories. Most of us who have been backpacking a long all have made mistakes that could have had an outcome like Otter. Sharing that kind of information hopefully will help others. I personally use a Zolio GPS Communicator which is a little heavier than the Garmin mini but the plans are cheeper.
I'm one of the viewers that doesn't hike. I never will after binge watching about 15 of these videos. I also watch Mentour Pilot so now I don't fly. I'm just going to sit in one spot for the rest of my life. But seriously, these are fascinating stories. RIP Otter.
Otter is certainly not alone in being overly confident because of his experience level. We are just about all guilty of that. It is just sad that his decision was fatal. He would probably be pleased that his death wasn’t pointless but is being used as an educational tool to save others from making same mistake. I think I’d take 2 GPS locators just in case one failed!!!
I've often carried 2 GPS devices when out. They are just for navigating but I'm amazed at how many people can't cough up a couple hundred bucks to be certain where they are. I'll get a locator before doing anything serious.
You made it very clear that you were not here to disrespect Otter in any way. 👍 While many look up to him like a hiking king, I'll be the one to say that he made some really stupid decisions. It doesn't take an expert or experience to understand basic outdoor safety. While most people don't believe in saying anything negative about the dead, I do appreciate that you at least pointed out things to avoid. It sounds like his ego got in the way of his survival. I've heard too many similar stories to think otherwise.
I read the Outside article written by Otter’s friend. Otter did have a PLB but cancelled the subscription so he could use the small monthly fee to purchase food and weed.
I find it somewhat horrifying that the Garmin (and I guess some other) devices won't allow the basic SOS function without paying the subscription fees. There are plenty of no-subscription PLBs available for less money that don't have the text function or the ability to send your location to a loved one at home. You'd think the basic life-saving ability could be free with the device, and the subscription fees to pay for the more expensive premium features. Hell, even if they charged you $1000 in the event of an emergency activation when you didn't have an active subscription that would be somewhat reasonable. But no, you just get to die.
If you save one new or experienced hiker (yourself included) Otter would be more than happy that you were doing this educational version. I'm certain what you are teaching he would have happily agreed. The second rule is universally applicable in today's world for sure!
Good choice to get a sat-com device. I got one after a medical issue that left me unable to move at more than 1/2 mile in an hour. I was lucky in that I had family less than an hour away and a road 1/4 mile down hill with cell service. Many places I go, even on day hikes, have valleys or hills that cause gaps in cell service. I've been many places where you have to hike or drive miles to get a cell signal and been exploring dangerous areas alone.
I'm a Northern New Mexico local and I've known about the otter story for awhile honestly we have a lot of people died in the wilderness in New Mexico I think it might be generally underestimated another person died not far from there just a few years after otter
I got off the trail last year because I was making poor decisions that were endangering my well being. Clouded judgement in the desert. Can't wait to do it again.
I’ve been camping alone many times, I’d leave the coordinates of my camp with my wife. But in reality, if I didn’t home on time and she reported my assumed location to the park service, it’s probably too late. If you can’t self-rescue, you’re probably dead. In my old age (60) I now have a camping partner but I’ve already told my wife if he’s not around, the InReach will be my new hiking partner.
The weird thing is,i often find myself thinking 'Just the next hill,just check out this path,just another hour'. Got totally lost one time ( it was getting real late) and in the middle of nowhere,heard people having a bbq in thier back garden.I was out of food and water and just burst through thier hedge like a wild man of the woods 😄 the shock on thier faces but hey..they got me a drink,fed me and drove me back to my car. Totally grateful and certainly learned my lesson.
Excellent follow up to your prior video on Otter. I agree, he probably would have gone even if he wasn't "stoned". The fact he was even contemplating that hike during that time of year in the Rockies is hard to understand. But the death knell was the lack of a communication/locator system, including a power brick. I'll say this, he lasted much longer than I could have out there during the Winter.
If people knew how tough it is to find an incapacitated (or just hunkering down) hiker in the woods, they'd carry GPS or just avoid the sport. In your video about Geraldine Largay, you sounded incredulous that she couldn't be located with the rescuers coming within 100 feet of her campsite. That's totally unremarkable to anyone involved in SAR or who simply spends any significant amount of time "off piste" so to speak. Most people who disappear in the wilderness are simply never found, including trail hikers. Most of their bodies are probably located within a mile or two of the trail. Yes, you can hike for decades and have nothing go wrong, but a GPS can turn a fatal scenario into a near miss.
On the note of sat comm devices w SOS capabilities, thought it’s worth mentioning that Tmobile is partnering w Starlink to provide basic satellite-service to get rid of deadzones.
The life you might save by carrying an InReach might be that of a stranger. I’ve been involved in assisting a few medically distressed hikers out west. It’s amazing how people underestimate the heat in the southwest.
It might not occur to most hikers that there might be false sightings of them that could very well affect a search like it did Otter’s. Yet another good reason to carry a personal GPS.
Great update & topic in general. Also surprisingly sensitively done by someone always ready to drop a “your mom” joke. Otter would have loved ❤ your mom. Sorry, couldn’t not go there.
In the Sierras, it's going to be an extremely late hiking season. Some of the passes may never become snow-free this summer. Lots of dangerous rockfall in the afternoons, lots of post-holing the rest of the time. So very slow-going, with a lot of early AM hiking when the snow is crusted over.
@@T_Mo271 Based on trips that I took in the Sierra starting August 15, 2017, and August 23, 2019, it's likely there will be snow on all of the Sierra passes the entire year until the first snowfall of winter. There was snow on all of the passes through September both of those years, and the amunt of snow in the Sierra this year is already greater than the max both of those years with lots more falling right now.
If they get to the Sierra by mid May and know how to camp on snow, they'll probably have snow bridges over many of the creek crossings. I saw a couple of guys who made it through fine in 2017 because they came through so early (in South Lake Tahoe at the end of May), but they were experienced with travel and camping on snow.
As someone who used to smoke daily, and has zero issue with people choosing to smoke, it definitely impairs decision making. 100%. Also, didn't know about those little GPS units. Definitely going to look into one!
I just want to add that there are several PLBs marketed to sailors/kayakers that don't require subscriptions, and will work just as well inland. ACR, McMurdo, and Ocean Signal are a few brands. Around $350 at the cheaper end, with battery change at around $100 every five years. Not able to send messages like the inreach, but gives you that ohshit button at a significantly lower cost overall. $350 over five years is $70 a year. $6 a month.
I watched the last video on this guy, and couldn't figure out why he couldn't walk back to the road 12 miles away. It turned out he probably had the flu, because one of the trail angels he was staying with had the flu. Likely had he not had the flu, he could have gotten out of there.
Great things to consider. And now that I have my Zoleo, I take it everywhere. Hiking, motorcycle, traveling.....in Montana, there are a lot of no service areas.
How many subscribers did you get in the last few weeks? I feel like you were just at 50k. Regardless, we'll deserved, already at 111k! Love all the content you make!
I view deliberate winter hikers in the same level as surfers who surf big hurricanes. It's thrill seeking that experts get caught in sometimes. RIP Otter. ❤
--The whole story just doesn't make any sense. "Experienced" backpackers KNOW that Colorado in November means WINTER backpacking. --That means winter tent, winter clothes, snow shoes, boots, microspikes, ice ax, multiple layers, etc --It not that backpackers DON"T head north out of Chama in November, BUT they're experienced in major snow. I remember "The Real Hiking Viking" has done lots of hiking in the dead of winter. One of his videos is, "Winter Backpacking Tips with The Real Hiking Viking". --Maybe his biggest mistake was not hiking back to Cumbres Pass. You KNOW that's the way out. You've already hiked the trail so you know where it goes. It's was only 12 miles back to the road. You'd camp where you can camp. Even if you can only do 3 miles a day, that's only a 4 day hike back to the road. Most humans can live a solid month without food, but even then he apparently had lots of food. -The whole story just doesn't sound like what a experienced backpacker would do. -And yes I totally agree on the PLB. If people don't want a subscription, just carry an "ACR ResQLink".
I was just reading the description of the InReach you bought. Reading the last paragraph, I had to laugh, it says it is illegal to use in some jurisdictions. Yeah, like that would stop me from pushing that button if it was life or death. Sometime government regs are plain silly.
Kyle, these are all great lessons that we all should heed. It would be cool if the AMC could play thus vid before anyone is allowed to leave the parking lot at pinkham. The whites have seen 3 fatalities this winter. 2 from exposure and one from a fall. The two from exposure were young, fit and experienced people who simply didn’t dress properly for the elements or pack enough clothing and provisions for the task before them. Sad. There’s a lot of this 48 4000 footers stuff where folks gotta “bang out” these peaks which puts people in this getter done attitude which can then cloud good sound judgment. I did a fair amount of backcountry skiing backpacking trips in my 20s and for a 3 dayer my buddy and I would beat the hell out of a quarter pretty good but we waited till my megamid was up, snow kitchen dug out and msr stove all set up ready to start processing snow. And then it was on!😉. Man… that was some good times!! Shit! Anyway… movin on.. One other thing Kyle… I noticed something in that old picture of Gerry that i never noticed before… she had a fuckin whistle on her pack. I wonder if she ever thought to blow that thing! Sad. Thanks for these vids Kyle. One can treat vacuuming the house or paying your taxes as a “getter done” task but the mountains don’t work that way. Take care sir. NQU
6:00 This might be a little random but in the trucking industry I know that most accidents are not the first and second year guys. It’s mostly the 3-5 year experienced truckers that cause the most accidents.
Your channel is blowing up! More of these stories are also helpful for others to learn from! Also….You might hit a quarter mil. subs by April! Or at least 200k! Keep it up! Maybe you & MrBallen can collaborate sometime too! That would be epic!
I finally got an inreach as well, as a solo hiker I've gotten in some tricky situations being as I only go on trips from November-march... I work construction during summers so it's the time I have. Getting ready for a trip to the Upper peninsula michigan next weekend. Don't think I'll need but nice knowing I have it if something were to go wrong.
He might have been saved if he'd had a rescue flare when that plane flew over, although I don't think I've ever seen any backpacking channel mention them
Yeah personally as a weed smoker of over 30 years I'm tempted to think "big deal if he rest stoned" but as you said HE said it was a bad idea and he's the only one who would know
You're doing these videos proper. Unfortunate yet educational to learn from. We all need to remember to stay humble always tell mom / someone where you're going and your plans like you said. We're not invincible. I picked up a Zoleo when I started. The costs are nothing compared to the amount of gas money we may spend to go hiking and meals etc. Are you going do a 5 mistakes Dan Becker made video next?
Lifelong coloradan. You can expect the first snow fall on the northern foothills as early as october. In the rockies proper definitely common for there to be feet of snow in the mountains by November. The rockies are absolutely deadly. Beautiful, but deadly
Your 5th reason is the only real mistake as far as lifesaving, in your last video I said he should have had a satellite phone, this is also cool. didn't know they exist, I'm getting one. As someone over 60, I think anyone over 50 should get one, I don't care if you think you are in great shape, over 50, and shit happens, even on day hikes.
You should also get yourself one of those “I have fallen and can’t get up” buttons to wear around your house if you live alone. At your age, one bad fall and you could break a hip and not be able to reach the phone. Not so necessary if you live with others, but if you live alone, I would recommend it. My parents own an RCFE, I have seen a lot of older people fall from the dumbest of things. Things that you wouldn’t think would make a person fall. One lady fell and broke her hip while walking because her knee gave out. If you live alone, please think about getting one.
I feel Otter would appreciate these videos, Kyle. If you save another with his mistakes, he lives on. I'm internalizing the information. Thank you, Otter. (and Kyle)
I watched the earlier video you made about him. It really struck a cord with me. I found the campsite where he died (not far from me) and I plan on going there and if there is no memorial in place for him I am going to make one and leave it there. RIP Otter
that's nice of you.
@@KyleHatesHiking I've had similar thoughts of leaving roses on places along the trail that people died. They are out there for the same reasons we are. I figured unsolved murders get 2 roses.
Please put a little stone on the memorial ❤️
Respect 👊
In my profession we leave a specific symbol behind where anyone has died a preventable death. Doing something like this for hikers can serve as a sobering reminder to avoid complacency.
I think Otter would approve of you using his misfortune as a teaching tool. He was so concerned about the person who would find him. That says a lot about him. Rest in peace, Otter.
I don't. Would you want to be known for dieing due to being a dumb stoner?? That's exactly the label this kid just painted on him. I am a stoner and I would be rolling in my grave looking to haunt this Goody 2 shoes piece of s***.
@@funkymonkey529 your opinion. I happen to use cannabis daily for over 40 years. I'm entitled to my opinion. And Kyle is quoting Otter's own words in his journal. He didn't pick the information out of thin air.
@DrollFusillade Marketing really?! You're kidding me?
@DrollFusillade Marketing lol
@Tanya Joy Funny how it wasn't Mentioned in the last video. And i'm Right there With you I've been smoking an ounce A-week for about the last 40 years. I'm not some young puff and I understand the words that I type. But let me tell you. Just because you're over 40 doesn't mean that you're intelligent. It doesn't matter if Otter did say it himself. Just because one man was a moron doesn't mean that other stoners are stupid. That's like saying people that are stoned are bad drivers. But there is no evidence to support that their reactions are Actually slower Or that driving is even impaired. From my life long experience people that are stoned tend to do under the speed limit If not exactly The speed limit. They are extra cautious. They don't take chances and follow all the laws because they don't want pulled over. Quite the opposite of the common stereotypical perspective By people who barely smoke or don't smoke at all. It's the image that the guy who made the video is portraying. I don't know why you don't understand that but this really has relatively nothing to do with otter And everything to do with this young punk Who claims that he hikes yet somehow comes out with a brand new video every single day...
I have a mini as my wife made me get one. it lets her know where I am at all times and Gives her peace of mind. Worth every penny.
Mini what?
You got it shortened?
I'm a Colorado native & have a lot of experience in the backcountry. I have a very busy & demanding life, and so I typically take solo trips to completely disconnect from the outside world in order to reset and rejuvenate. I've made many careless mistakes over the years & have gotten lucky as I've learned. I started carrying an inReach Mini about 3 years ago so I could keep my wife posted on the progress of my travels, mostly to give her peace of mind (and to feel connected with her while I'm away). I've only _almost_ needed it once. I'm always grateful I have it. Better to have it & never need it than to need it & not have it. One of the best gear investments I've made.
I have an Inreach Explore. Yearly subscription. Was the first piece of equipment purchased when I began my hiking. I have used it. I can't express the importance, even the best at their craft have accidents. RIP Otter ! We have received your message !
I spent 17 years with Search and Rescue in the mountains of British Columbia and your list of mistakes is right on! I’d also add that recently with the explosion of outdoor adventurers, over estimating skill and fitness levels is also a huge mistake. Too many inexperienced people overestimating their abilities is a major reason for activating Search and Rescue missions. GPS, PLB devices like InReach and super light gear, etc., has given the opportunity for the inexperienced person to get themselves into serious trouble. There’s no substitute for in the field experience but It takes time!
Thank you. Yes, experience in n the real world is not so important to people anymore. It all has to be filtered through their technology. Not really the same thing. Having to stick your iPhone in front of your face and take a picture of that sunset is not the same thing as directly experiencing it.
I had a person apply for search and rescue thinking they could navigate by the stars cause they watched a video on UA-cam!!🤪🤣
This is why they have a warning on one of the grand canyon hikes that said NOT TO TRY TO DO IT IN ONE DAY and that HIKERS HAVE DIED. Or like on a beach in Monterey with warnings about it's tsunami like waves killing swimmers. Maybe it's Kruger-Dunning or maybe it's too much ego or inexperience...
As someone who hikes almost exclusively solo, I will NEVER hike with out a satellite emergency device again. FYI there are some that some personal location beacons that don’t require a monthly subscription- go out there and have a blast but be SAFE everyone!!
I can only second this: Personal Location Beacons are often if not always subscription free. Depending on the satellite network they work on, they even might have better coverage than satellite communicator devices like the inreach.
Honestly, "don't hike into the Cascades in November" equipped only as a fast thru hiker will carry you. Very few people are actually ever in danger of dying in this way, because most people wouldn't even consider attempting what he did. .
I’ll add that age has changed my abilities to hike. Like getting altitude sickness now at only 9000’. I didn’t know that was going to happen until it did.
Similarly, Mischief on the Trail slipped on ice, hit his head and passed out with his feet in the water, got frostbite. Healthy young and experienced hiker, didn’t expect that either til it happened.
I like how respectful this lessons learned was, Kyle. Thank you!
Otter’s story is going to save some lives. I’m sure he would be proud of that.
Thanks Kyle for sharing this story.
Don't feel bad about using tragedy to prevent further tragedies. Entire aviation industry reached it safety standards exactly this way - by cold analysis of all mishaps and turning them into lessons. I don't see any reason why not to use this approach for hikers (or any potentialy hazardous activity).
Tears were shed for Otter, there is nothing we can do about it now but learn from it. We don't need another tragedy like this. RIP Otter.
I am 81 years old. Thank you for your videos.😊
I just watched the video about him yesterday and glad you made this follow up video to help people learn from his mistakes. I’m sure thats exactly what he would’ve wanted. RIP Otter.
I did too. Just a couple days ago, not yesterday though.
I don't hike, but I learned from this video. I think you covered his story with compassion. Thanks for sharing
As long as Otter’s lessons and his name live on Otter lives on. RIP Otter and thank you
🥾🥾🥾
I agree with all the points talked about. We have several outdoor rec deaths here in a Maine every season. From Hiking, Snowmobiling, Boating, Ice Fishing etc. Most break the basic guidelines of survival. Never a fan of weed, alcohol or drugs when in activities like this either.
The Maine Warden Service excels at finding lost hunters and hikers.
I do find it funny how stoners are getting offended at your video. Yes weed affects your decision making, especially high doses of edibles. Not saying don't smoke or ingest on trail, but make sure you're being as safe as possible like by having a gps and letting people know what you're doing.
I don't even smoke weed and I'm offended that you think stoners are offended. Lol jk
@@Eric-mz9en
Lmao, I saw one dude with a few likes who sounded mad.
@@ogzombieblunt4626 Yeah, I used to smoke, just don't smoke now. Just being a smart-ass, I guess with everyone getting offended easily. ✌️
Weed would be useful in the late evening for soreness and helping you to sleep.
@@sallys2423 CBD oil without THC is better.
The InReach service center would have contacted the local authorities with the coordinates, they'd have looked it up and seen that it was in a snow-bound area. They've have sent out a fixed-wing search plane. They'd have orbited the area of the coordinates for long enough to see if he could be observed. Then they'd have sent out a helicopter (most likely a National Guard search-and-rescue team) and either landed nearby or lowered some personnel on a long-line.
I'm not sure what sort of services Otter would have had in 2015, but that's how it works today.
Accident analysis is quite common in sports / activities where mistakes or accidents , though unlikely, can have severe consequences.This can be quite relevant in the outdoor hiking and camping sports since I suspect a high percentage of people are unaware that a chain of unfortunate circumstances can result in severe injury or death when at the surface conditions look benign.
Kyle tells Otter's story well, If you haven't seen it go back and watched it. Otter survived an incredible amount of time.
Thanks Kyle. It's good for us new hikers to see those with experience have the same fears. Dan expressed some of his mistakes in his recent video about his rescue and it was very humbling.
I checked out Otter’s channel after your first video and was wincing every time he complained about heading out in snow in one of his final videos. He expected to be lucky enough one too many times
At 65 I have survived several near death events. It has made me slightly negligent in taking all precaution. My kids recognized and bought me a PLB. Look out for others...
This story is heartbreaking and there is a lot to learn from this and other stories like this. Weather can be unpredictable even in the best of times and you hear stories from experienced hikers, boaters, divers, etc about mistakes. I hope his friends and family remember all the beautiful happy times when they think of him.
Everyone should do this, it’s the culture in the aviation industry. It’s not personal. let’s see what happened and learn from it. Great video.
Kyle, your comment on experience and confidence is right on. After 30 plus years of hiking/backpacking I am still almost always nervous or a little uneasy when venturing out for anything from an overnight to walking the Arizona Trail from the border to Flagstaff. Great job!
Such an enormously sad tale. And a great warning for all hikers... regardless of ability. Thanks, Kyle.
Kyle,
Thanks for your amazing videos. The story of Otter convinced me to purchase a GPS locator for my family's peace of mind and my own safety.
I feel like the biggest lesson people can learn is:
Don't take unnecessary risks.
Going out into the mountains in November was an unnecessary risk. He could have been prepared with a PLB and snow shoes and then it still would have been a risk, but the safety equipment and appropriate gear would have mitigated a lot of those risks.
If you do decide to get a PLB, you still have a responsibility to be sensible and not take unnecessary risks, however.
Snow shoes probably would have been enough to save him. IMHO
Analysis of his mistakes. Debriefing them and learning from them is the most respectful thing a person can do in his memory. Letting the lessons of his story go unassessed , would be the most disrespectful thing a person can do.
I smoke while hiking but usually find it is kinda pointless until you get to camp. Smokin a bowl and incline dont mix
Didn’t you say at 100k you’d go backpacking with a camp chair? We’re waiting Kyle.
give me some time!
And the crotch pot!
He probably didn't think it would only be a month later 😂 That was some crazy fast growth.
I carry my inReach with me on my commute to and from work, simply because I drive through a couple of cell dead-zones. I won’t hike without it, period!
Grata on the 100k, Kyle! Feels good to watch you getting the recognition you deserve
im sure it was only a week or 2 he was on 50k!!
thank you so much! very grateful
I watched your previous video. Yes Mountain madness can cloud the mind of any veteran backpacker. That late in the season on your own without any backup. Those are two fatal factors he already chose to except so anything else happens that would be the third strike. That’s why this is a tragedy, with any soloing adventure sailing,diving,climbing etc. One can only fall back on their training, experience, preparation and having the appropriate gear. Evidently Otter had two out of four and those are risky odds. Great job! Thank you for sharing this and hopefully we all can learn something out this unfortunate story.
Good job Kyle. It is important that people hear these kind of stories. Most of us who have been backpacking a long all have made mistakes that could have had an outcome like Otter. Sharing that kind of information hopefully will help others. I personally use a Zolio GPS Communicator which is a little heavier than the Garmin mini but the plans are cheeper.
I'm one of the viewers that doesn't hike. I never will after binge watching about 15 of these videos. I also watch Mentour Pilot so now I don't fly. I'm just going to sit in one spot for the rest of my life. But seriously, these are fascinating stories. RIP Otter.
Otter is certainly not alone in being overly confident because of his experience level. We are just about all guilty of that. It is just sad that his decision was fatal. He would probably be pleased that his death wasn’t pointless but is being used as an educational tool to save others from making same mistake.
I think I’d take 2 GPS locators just in case one failed!!!
I've often carried 2 GPS devices when out. They are just for navigating but I'm amazed at how many people can't cough up a couple hundred bucks to be certain where they are. I'll get a locator before doing anything serious.
@@fendermon I think it’s suicidal to go without locator.
@@Michelle-fh2dp I wouldn't argue that. I just bought a Garmin Messenger today. the $12 annual fee is nothing. Cheers :)
@@fendermon Good choice! 😁
@@Michelle-fh2dp Thanks. I was wayy off on the fees. Oh well, cheaper than being stuck out of cell range. 👍
You made it very clear that you were not here to disrespect Otter in any way. 👍 While many look up to him like a hiking king, I'll be the one to say that he made some really stupid decisions. It doesn't take an expert or experience to understand basic outdoor safety. While most people don't believe in saying anything negative about the dead, I do appreciate that you at least pointed out things to avoid. It sounds like his ego got in the way of his survival. I've heard too many similar stories to think otherwise.
I read the Outside article written by Otter’s friend. Otter did have a PLB but cancelled the subscription so he could use the small monthly fee to purchase food and weed.
I find it somewhat horrifying that the Garmin (and I guess some other) devices won't allow the basic SOS function without paying the subscription fees. There are plenty of no-subscription PLBs available for less money that don't have the text function or the ability to send your location to a loved one at home. You'd think the basic life-saving ability could be free with the device, and the subscription fees to pay for the more expensive premium features. Hell, even if they charged you $1000 in the event of an emergency activation when you didn't have an active subscription that would be somewhat reasonable. But no, you just get to die.
It’s amazing Otter was so honest in his Journal
If you save one new or experienced hiker (yourself included) Otter would be more than happy that you were doing this educational version. I'm certain what you are teaching he would have happily agreed. The second rule is universally applicable in today's world for sure!
Good choice to get a sat-com device. I got one after a medical issue that left me unable to move at more than 1/2 mile in an hour. I was lucky in that I had family less than an hour away and a road 1/4 mile down hill with cell service. Many places I go, even on day hikes, have valleys or hills that cause gaps in cell service. I've been many places where you have to hike or drive miles to get a cell signal and been exploring dangerous areas alone.
I'm a Northern New Mexico local and I've known about the otter story for awhile honestly we have a lot of people died in the wilderness in New Mexico I think it might be generally underestimated another person died not far from there just a few years after otter
I got off the trail last year because I was making poor decisions that were endangering my well being. Clouded judgement in the desert. Can't wait to do it again.
It's so important to learn from other people's mistakes & our own. This info could save a life.
I’ve been camping alone many times, I’d leave the coordinates of my camp with my wife. But in reality, if I didn’t home on time and she reported my assumed location to the park service, it’s probably too late. If you can’t self-rescue, you’re probably dead. In my old age (60) I now have a camping partner but I’ve already told my wife if he’s not around, the InReach will be my new hiking partner.
"People who don't even hike"
r/ultralight felt that one in the soul
The weird thing is,i often find myself thinking 'Just the next hill,just check out this path,just another hour'. Got totally lost one time ( it was getting real late) and in the middle of nowhere,heard people having a bbq in thier back garden.I was out of food and water and just burst through thier hedge like a wild man of the woods 😄 the shock on thier faces but hey..they got me a drink,fed me and drove me back to my car. Totally grateful and certainly learned my lesson.
Excellent follow up to your prior video on Otter. I agree, he probably would have gone even if he wasn't "stoned". The fact he was even contemplating that hike during that time of year in the Rockies is hard to understand. But the death knell was the lack of a communication/locator system, including a power brick. I'll say this, he lasted much longer than I could have out there during the Winter.
If people knew how tough it is to find an incapacitated (or just hunkering down) hiker in the woods, they'd carry GPS or just avoid the sport. In your video about Geraldine Largay, you sounded incredulous that she couldn't be located with the rescuers coming within 100 feet of her campsite. That's totally unremarkable to anyone involved in SAR or who simply spends any significant amount of time "off piste" so to speak. Most people who disappear in the wilderness are simply never found, including trail hikers. Most of their bodies are probably located within a mile or two of the trail. Yes, you can hike for decades and have nothing go wrong, but a GPS can turn a fatal scenario into a near miss.
Thanks for posting this video. I just read Otter Diaries. Great read lots to learn. May he Rest in peace
Because of your videos I had a chat today with my son (age 23) on how to use a compass to help him get un-lost in the woods.
On the note of sat comm devices w SOS capabilities, thought it’s worth mentioning that Tmobile is partnering w Starlink to provide basic satellite-service to get rid of deadzones.
The first thing I noticed when the video started was the inreach mini sitting next to the computer 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻❤️
The life you might save by carrying an InReach might be that of a stranger. I’ve been involved in assisting a few medically distressed hikers out west. It’s amazing how people underestimate the heat in the southwest.
There's so much to learn from this. Good job, Kyle.
It might not occur to most hikers that there might be false sightings of them that could very well affect a search like it did Otter’s. Yet another good reason to carry a personal GPS.
New subscriber, love all the videos you do and they are extremely helpful. You've been blowing up and you deserve it. Hope to see you get to 200k!
Great update & topic in general. Also surprisingly sensitively done by someone always ready to drop a “your mom” joke.
Otter would have loved ❤ your mom.
Sorry, couldn’t not go there.
November- out east we had a few tragedies in the Whites as well.
I’m really concerned about the hikers starting the PCT right now. California has experienced record-breaking snowfall.
Lol
In the Sierras, it's going to be an extremely late hiking season. Some of the passes may never become snow-free this summer. Lots of dangerous rockfall in the afternoons, lots of post-holing the rest of the time. So very slow-going, with a lot of early AM hiking when the snow is crusted over.
@@T_Mo271 Based on trips that I took in the Sierra starting August 15, 2017, and August 23, 2019, it's likely there will be snow on all of the Sierra passes the entire year until the first snowfall of winter. There was snow on all of the passes through September both of those years, and the amunt of snow in the Sierra this year is already greater than the max both of those years with lots more falling right now.
If they get to the Sierra by mid May and know how to camp on snow, they'll probably have snow bridges over many of the creek crossings. I saw a couple of guys who made it through fine in 2017 because they came through so early (in South Lake Tahoe at the end of May), but they were experienced with travel and camping on snow.
I absolutely agree. My Garmin inreach mini 2 was my one and only Christmas present last year
I got one for Christmas too!
As someone who used to smoke daily, and has zero issue with people choosing to smoke, it definitely impairs decision making. 100%. Also, didn't know about those little GPS units. Definitely going to look into one!
I just want to add that there are several PLBs marketed to sailors/kayakers that don't require subscriptions, and will work just as well inland. ACR, McMurdo, and Ocean Signal are a few brands. Around $350 at the cheaper end, with battery change at around $100 every five years. Not able to send messages like the inreach, but gives you that ohshit button at a significantly lower cost overall. $350 over five years is $70 a year. $6 a month.
I watched the last video on this guy, and couldn't figure out why he couldn't walk back to the road 12 miles away. It turned out he probably had the flu, because one of the trail angels he was staying with had the flu. Likely had he not had the flu, he could have gotten out of there.
Good on you for finally getting a satellite device Kyle! Your family will appreciate it for sure. I know mine did when I finally got one.
Great things to consider. And now that I have my Zoleo, I take it everywhere. Hiking, motorcycle, traveling.....in Montana, there are a lot of no service areas.
How many subscribers did you get in the last few weeks? I feel like you were just at 50k. Regardless, we'll deserved, already at 111k! Love all the content you make!
This is a very respectful video. It seems to me that the weather will always win.
I view deliberate winter hikers in the same level as surfers who surf big hurricanes. It's thrill seeking that experts get caught in sometimes. RIP Otter. ❤
Teaching skills > gear reviews. Great video!!!!
--The whole story just doesn't make any sense. "Experienced" backpackers KNOW that Colorado in November means WINTER backpacking.
--That means winter tent, winter clothes, snow shoes, boots, microspikes, ice ax, multiple layers, etc
--It not that backpackers DON"T head north out of Chama in November, BUT they're experienced in major snow. I remember "The Real Hiking Viking" has done lots of hiking in the dead of winter. One of his videos is, "Winter Backpacking Tips with The Real Hiking Viking".
--Maybe his biggest mistake was not hiking back to Cumbres Pass. You KNOW that's the way out. You've already hiked the trail so you know where it goes. It's was only 12 miles back to the road. You'd camp where you can camp. Even if you can only do 3 miles a day, that's only a 4 day hike back to the road. Most humans can live a solid month without food, but even then he apparently had lots of food.
-The whole story just doesn't sound like what a experienced backpacker would do.
-And yes I totally agree on the PLB. If people don't want a subscription, just carry an "ACR ResQLink".
Think you made the right decision ,mountains give what they give ,regardless enjoy it ,enjoying your videos !!!
Congratulations on reaching your goal of 100,000 subscribers. 🎉❤
Dude congrats! Can't believe I wasn't notified about that video! Also congrats on 109k subs! You blew up from it.
Always keep your ego in check. Also the Garmin especially in the mountains winter or not.
And don't be stoned
I was just reading the description of the InReach you bought. Reading the last paragraph, I had to laugh, it says it is illegal to use in some jurisdictions. Yeah, like that would stop me from pushing that button if it was life or death. Sometime government regs are plain silly.
Well done. Glad to see you recognize the mistakes...and used this tragedy to educate others about foolish mistakes.
Man, it behooves me how many people don't hike without a sos Garmin. Crazy
Well done, Kyle.
Gratz on finding a niche the algorithm likes. Hopefully, you continue to do real hiking vids.
Kyle, these are all great lessons that we all should heed. It would be cool if the AMC could play thus vid before anyone is allowed to leave the parking lot at pinkham. The whites have seen 3 fatalities this winter. 2 from exposure and one from a fall. The two from exposure were young, fit and experienced people who simply didn’t dress properly for the elements or pack enough clothing and provisions for the task before them. Sad. There’s a lot of this 48 4000 footers stuff where folks gotta “bang out” these peaks which puts people in this getter done attitude which can then cloud good sound judgment. I did a fair amount of backcountry skiing backpacking trips in my 20s and for a 3 dayer my buddy and I would beat the hell out of a quarter pretty good but we waited till my megamid was up, snow kitchen dug out and msr stove all set up ready to start processing snow. And then it was on!😉. Man… that was some good times!! Shit! Anyway… movin on..
One other thing Kyle… I noticed something in that old picture of Gerry that i never noticed before… she had a fuckin whistle on her pack. I wonder if she ever thought to blow that thing! Sad.
Thanks for these vids Kyle. One can treat vacuuming the house or paying your taxes as a “getter done” task but the mountains don’t work that way. Take care sir. NQU
I was thinking that just last night, why didn't she signal. I wonder if dementia was a factor. Poor lady.
@Sallita Morales good point!
Love your vids bro, it was a good follow up to your previous story. Thanks
6:00 This might be a little random but in the trucking industry I know that most accidents are not the first and second year guys. It’s mostly the 3-5 year experienced truckers that cause the most accidents.
We have a saying in the trucking industry. “Complacency in your ability kills”
Your channel is blowing up! More of these stories are also helpful for others to learn from!
Also….You might hit a quarter mil. subs by April! Or at least 200k! Keep it up! Maybe you & MrBallen can collaborate sometime too! That would be epic!
I see you went big! Great job getting to 100k subscribers!
thank you Robert!
I finally got an inreach as well, as a solo hiker I've gotten in some tricky situations being as I only go on trips from November-march... I work construction during summers so it's the time I have. Getting ready for a trip to the Upper peninsula michigan next weekend. Don't think I'll need but nice knowing I have it if something were to go wrong.
congrats on 100k!! been here since a couple thousand and you deserve it
that's awesome, you've been here a long time! much appreciate you sticking with me!
He might have been saved if he'd had a rescue flare when that plane flew over, although I don't think I've ever seen any backpacking channel mention them
Yeah personally as a weed smoker of over 30 years I'm tempted to think "big deal if he rest stoned" but as you said HE said it was a bad idea and he's the only one who would know
You're doing these videos proper. Unfortunate yet educational to learn from. We all need to remember to stay humble always tell mom / someone where you're going and your plans like you said. We're not invincible. I picked up a Zoleo when I started. The costs are nothing compared to the amount of gas money we may spend to go hiking and meals etc. Are you going do a 5 mistakes Dan Becker made video next?
Lifelong coloradan. You can expect the first snow fall on the northern foothills as early as october. In the rockies proper definitely common for there to be feet of snow in the mountains by November. The rockies are absolutely deadly. Beautiful, but deadly
I have a ZOLEO. The subscription fee pains me but it’s definitely worth it to have that SOS button,
+1000 On the personal locator beacon. No one should go out into the back country without one.
Complacency kills.
Thank you. RIP Otto ❤️
Your 5th reason is the only real mistake as far as lifesaving, in your last video I said he should have had a satellite phone, this is also cool. didn't know they exist, I'm getting one. As someone over 60, I think anyone over 50 should get one, I don't care if you think you are in great shape, over 50, and shit happens, even on day hikes.
You should also get yourself one of those “I have fallen and can’t get up” buttons to wear around your house if you live alone. At your age, one bad fall and you could break a hip and not be able to reach the phone. Not so necessary if you live with others, but if you live alone, I would recommend it. My parents own an RCFE, I have seen a lot of older people fall from the dumbest of things. Things that you wouldn’t think would make a person fall. One lady fell and broke her hip while walking because her knee gave out. If you live alone, please think about getting one.
Congrats on 110k!
You can never have enough experience doing anything, but hiking stoned definitely requires experience and obviously it can go wrong
Great video Kyle....