@@BroeyDeschanel How dare we have a film about a man with a simple right or wrong complex. The fact that patriotism, not overthinking and being true to your values is considered propaganda. Even if it was conservative im sick and tired of people on the hating everything they disagree with and shame people for liking it. Most right leaning who are not on Washington or the internet watches movies with left leaning values and themes all the time. I love Forrest Gump cause it gives hope that the American Dream is possible and if you do the right thing and be true to who you are. We need to be more optamistic and true to our vales like Forrest. Maybe not as ignorant, but hpeful more then ever.
@nicholasjoseph8297 Do you think the world is just made up of a binary, "right" and "wrong"? Like, 'black and white', with no shades of grey? Patriotism is dumb. I think that type of obedience is often learned at a young age, with the help of a fictional book - with stories that were made to appeal to barely (if at all) literate, goat herders. The book weaves a tail of a petty, genocidal, narcissistic, cruel "deity", that condones sl*very, in- cest, and female child gR* pe... who gives us ALL the 'free will' to accept him or not, (but if you choose 'wrong', you're doomed to an eternity of suffering!!! - but he totally love ya, and you ABSOLUTLY have a "choice"). "God bless the USA", right? The people who've achieved and LIVED "The American Dream" did so off of the labor of other, NOT so lucky, humans. People with REAL disabilities, US Vets, the marginalized, and the plain UNLUCKY fall by society's waist-side. So long as the tr*nsphobic, sexisst, and racissst idiot, Elon Musk isn't awakened from his "American Dream", there will be those who'll be providing him with that lifestyle for SCRAPTS (compared to what Musk has). And so long as that stays the way it is, and all the wars and violence, I don't feel much of obligation to our country. Sorry. We don't live in a storybook. Please grow up. Oh! And I LIKE Forrest Gump, generally. At least we aren't trying to ban it, like conservatives seem to enjoy doing to our poop.
Fun Fact: Forrest actually does have lines for his Vietnam speech, which according to IMDB were: "Sometimes when people go to Vietnam, they go home to their mommas without any legs. Sometimes they don't go home at all. That's a bad thing. That's all I have to say about that." Would have been better if they actually kept it.
For some reason I remember hearing him say that??? I wonder if maybe it was on any of the bonus content. Or maybe an interview. But the i definitely remember that quote.
I hate this idea that the Vietnam war was bad because soldiers got hurt and died and not the damage it did to Vietnam and the Asian pacific. Vietnam was not a bad war because some soldiers lost their legs it was a bad war because millions of Vietnamese were killed and their homes destroyed. The fact that soldiers got hurt is irrelevant and why we have soldiers in the first place. So even if they kept the speech in it would have been meaningless and hollow and further the point this video demonstrates.
@@FrizzlemanI mean you are absolutely right, but sending kids to fight and lose their lives overseas isn’t justified either. At the time it makes sense for folks to feel this way because despite being completely indoctrinated into the American nationalistic idealism, they could atleast see the impact of these atrocities on their own family and friends affected by the war. Having our perspective now is a privilege of having the ability to freely gain knowledge about the reality of these wars..
It's ridiculous to imagine that you could make an apolitical film that is nothing but a best hits collection of post-war 20th century American history.
@@pureevilfnord Indeed, and Forrest Gump isn't even close, it's incredibly explicitly political. Like the Vietnam War is probably the most important event the plot revolves around. It includes multiple Presidents, the Black Panthers and HIV/AIDS. There's few films more political.
@@pureevilfnordyes there is, there are endless examples. You or someone else applying your own political views to explain a film doesn't magically make it political
@@sawyerstudio I'm sure a fuckin genius such as yourself can write a dissertation on the politics of Zardoz or Eraserhead. Once again numb nuts you applying whatever weird shit from your Brain onto a film doesn't magically make it true
@@kaenachoo4783 it's not. I think folks think Forrest not saying anything explicitly about the war (he does it just gets interrupted by a Government Official but the scene implies it was impactful) means it's not saying anything but that misses A LOT.
@@kaenachoo4783 it conveniently ignores the mass bombing, napalming of civilians, agent orange, massacres committed by US forces but at the same time portrays the anti war movement extremely negatively.
I could always related to Jenny, as I too went on a period of self loathing. I love that Forrest simply lets Jenny unleash her pain by throwing rocks at her abusive father's house, and doesn't judge or condemn her for it.
Right? I don't relate much to Jenny, but my mom does. She loves this character so much and it's not coincidental that she went through a lot of her same trauma. Back then, at least in popular cinema, you didn't see so many female characters this flawed, so I can't help but like her a lot.
I’m glad you brought this up about the Black Panthers at 24:44 Cracked’s after hours video made a lot of good points about how most minority characters or characters who are made to confront injustice are reduced to angry suffering stereotypes. Characters who follow the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” way of thinking (and as you perfectly put it conformity) thrive and are successful.
Dude, the vast majority white people are also stereotyped, if you'd care to notice. There's a bunch of racist bullies that pursue Forrest all though his childhood and they never learn to be tolerant; all the politicians are slick and camera-savvy; and the hippies are potrayed pretty much mindless followers of a ill-defined cause of "love and peace". I could go on, but that's the gist. Only a few of the many, many people in the film get a realist treatment.
Cause that's how they're seen through Forest's gaze. It's kind of interesting how they play out both the loving Mammy trope, magical negro/negro as side character, and the black man as violent trope all on the same movie. I was a tween in the 90's and I know it was a different time but ooof, this did not age well.
@@zucchinigreen Yeah, its one of those flawed narrator things - but it feels better executed in the book as you can understand it as a product of Forest’s upbringing instead of a product of a script. Lol they really did pack all those tropes in there! Yeesh!
As a kid I loved running, but had to stop because I was diagnosed with scoliosis. This resulted in P.E. teachers yelling at me and calling me lazy (and one literally finding my mom's phone number and leaving her an angry and kind of incoherent voice mail because I had the audacity to give him a doctor's note). It sucked, especially since running was a big stress reliever for me. So it always bothered the shit out of me that he just... character arcs his way out of his physical disability. Like having fucked up bones isn't society trying to hold you back, it's just having fucked up bones!! It doesn't matter how much you believe in yourself! Why did they give him a real disability if they were going to treat it with this magical realism?? The movie's already pretty removed from reality, they could have just made something up instead of talking about a real condition like this! I literally haven't watched this video at all yet I'm just contractually obligated to bitch about this plot point every time this movie is brought up
I always interpreted that scene as indicating that the doctors simply got it wrong, using some 50s junk science to diagnose him with a disability he didn't actually have.
@@hoodiesticks Yes, I think you are right: the explicit narrative of the film suggests that positivity and simplicity can conquer all through "positive thinking" or a similarly vague notion. However, this can be detrimental to real people and the respectful treatment they deserve. The TEXT of the film is about a medical mistake, but the SUBTEXT is about self reliance in the face of negative circumstances, or "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps." Frequently, conservative politicians emphasize self-reliance to justify the unequal distribution of resources in society, attributing luck to hard work and determination and ignoring the massive amounts of fortunate circumstances behind success, and then they dismiss the need for alleviating severe misfortune by, for the most part, labeling it as laziness.
This isn’t to say that the subtext of the film isn’t inherently ableist, feeding into the “pull you out by the bootstraps” narrative, the framing of it all could tell you that much. Forrest’s disability is still vague, unnamed, and at times inconsistent.
Dawg. Forrest teaches Elvis how to dance, runs across the US after being the world champion in ping pong and is a millionaire from owning *one* shrimp boat. This isn't meant to be realistic. And it's bloom effect makes it feel like you're watching a story (which you are). Media literacy on a media criticism channel is scaring me sometimes
I remember when I first watched Forrest Gump in high school, I enjoyed it, but was confused as to who it was made for. There are so many different ways to interpret both the character and the story of Forrest Gump. On one hand, you have an incompetent white male who fails upwards. On the other, a wholesome, pure-hearted guy who always does the right thing and gets rewarded for it. He both witnesses his friends experience a lot of systemic injustices, but also represents loyalty to his country. I couldn't tell if the movie was being critical or celebratory of the whole thing.
Huh. Interesting thoughts. I suppose, if I were to put my overall thoughts about "what it all means", I'd say that it's a celebration of Gump as a simple, yet pure-hearted man, and the amazing life he leads. How many of us would devote ourselves so selflessly and purely to the well-being of our friends, family, and community, without almost any expectation of reward. I mean, granted Gump ends up with a lot of rewards, but he also shares his wealth and good fortune with everyone he cares about. We could all emulate a simple-hearted person like him in our lives.
@@meganhartmann180 I feel Gump getting rewarded is more so because he uses said reward to help others. What many of us would view as "the reward" is simply not "the reward" for Forrest it's merely another tool by which he moves trough life. All the "apple money" might as well be a lawn-mower to Forrest, because to him they mean the same thing/hold the same value, perhaps the mower even more. One can say he's 'falling upwards' but all the good things that happen to him, is because he is willing to help others/hold his promise. Bubba Shrimp being an example, sure the Storm kind of made him a monopoly, but he was only in the position because he took Bubba's dying wish to heart.
I definitely think it’s some line in between a celebration and a critique. I think the movie is proud to be American, and embarrassed of its faults sorta thing. I think it’s trying to acknowledge the strange state the union was in at the time.
Maybe this is because I’m not American and younger than this film, but I always saw him as a metaphor for American culture? A mindless drone at the center of multiple incredible events, going through them with near 0 contemplation, calm to horrors everybody else suffers through. A parody of an American film protagonist, surrounded by hell.
No I grew up in the US and always had the same interpretation. Everyone around Forrest is harmed or killed by American culture and jingoism, but he sees everything through the filter of nostalgia so he recounts it all as funny anecdotes and happy life events.
Also side note but a more deliberate use of this framing is in The Grand Budapest Hotel. The core story is distorted by so many layers of retelling that it has an extremely whimsical tone despite being an extremely grim plot.
This is such a random reference, but I remember listening to the director's commentary for The Princess Bride and Rob Reiner being vey insistent that Robin Wright, and thereby Jenny, was the heart of Forrest Gump and that the movie wouldn't have worked without her while he was complimenting Wright's performance in his own film. And even as a kid, it made me realize that I never really watched Forrest Gump to see Forrest. I'd always connected to Jenny or to Lt. Dan. I honestly never think about this movie anymore except when people on the internet decide to say awful things about Jenny. Not the writer's choices around Jenny, which are worthy of critique, but speaking on the character Jenny as if she's an evil harpy who strung Forrest along "for no reason." So I guess Rob Reiner was correct. The movie definitely wouldn't have worked for me even a little if it wasn't for Jenny.
Or Bubba. Author might have wanted to paint the soldiers in Forrest's unit as nobly doing their job, but I can't help but see the death of Bubba and Lt. Dan's injury as emblematic of the horrors of war. And placing it in Vietnam makes it emphasize war's pointlessness. How many people on both sides of that war died or were horribly wounded, and for what? What was accomplished? Were the outcomes of the lost war so bad that it was worth sending young men off to fight and die to try to prevent them?
Yeah I never understood why people on the Internet decided to turn against Jenny (or the film as a whole for that matter), she's really misunderstood, while I don't approve her actions, she, just like Forrest, were the consequence of their time. I love Forrest as a character, but Lt. Dan has arguably the best character development in the whole film, or any film, also Gary Sinise has helped a lot of veterans, working on fundations and all that, he's a nice human being in real life.
My dad always HATED this movie for pretty much the exact reasons you detail. He was also extremely contemptuous of Ronald Reagan, and more or less viewed Forrest Gump as an extension of the conservative “stupidity is good!” ethos that Reagan was such a big part of.
I would argue that the film version of Forest's Vietnam speech is actually more pointent because, by having the military officer cut off the mic, it's actually showcasing the government's propaganda efforts and parodying that "pro-war" agenda. They can't let Forest speak the truth because they know the criticism is valid.
Forrest was a decent man because he wanted to serve. The war was a waste of time and a useless waste of life - in that sense the hippies were correct. But they were also scumbags who lowered the standard of behavior across the board and created a more vulgar and immature population.
I disagree, respectfully. because everything in this film is played straight, and we the audience don't actually hear what Forrest says, there's no actual acknowledgement of the atrocity of the Vietnam war. it would've been more poignant if the film were actually brave enough to have Forrest speak/shout a peace message into the crowd when his mic is cut off.
Good point. It was a well made film perfect for the Zeitgeist of the time, but it didn't really age well on its philosophical and political points... as it seemed to me to suggest we have no collective agency and luck and feigned innocence, shrugging shoulders, and silence over dark events was the only choice. Although it ties "good liberal effects" of that goosy loosey philosophy on social issues like HIV, that were actually surprisingly progressive for the time..especially for a big Hollywood film..we all see where that has led us today when it comes to accepting economic and foreign policy changes...those things which have the greatest effects on most people. It's kind of cheap and easy and a kind of propaganda to tie them perversely together. The American people arn't simps...even if the elites try to paint us this way in "art", and the deep state treats us this way in "politics"...maybe to rationalize their own evil deeds that are bringing us to otherwise completely preventable economic collapse and WW3. We can do better, and we don't need to sleep our way into oblivion.
@@zackbarkley7593your people's resolve to make things right is weaponized against you. the real issue stays in the collective blind spot while you're busy discussing issues of less relevance.
@@kaphizmey6229 It's more about posturing than it is about actually having a heart of gold. Having an onscreen heart of gold protag to "relate" to is their absolution. Watching the heart of gold lose their innocence amidst senseless acts of violence is a part of this self-insert stoic arc. The HoG turned insular stoic is actually just an asshole doing war crimes and blaming victims for vague reasons. HoG becomes an unreflective spitting-mad drill sergeant seems to be the cycle. It's unsurprising that being exposed to harsh realities and coping with it by glorifying these events and their perpetrators creates an increasingly antisocial person.
I'm very protective of Jenny because she was an incredibly important character to me as a survivor. (I understand aspects of this movie are absolutely a product of the 90s, i agree on that overall) Jenny showed a character that often wasn't shown in media at the time. She was a severely traumatized young woman who spent her life trying to avoid her pain. She was objectified and further abused by the various paths she took to avoid that pain but we watch her begin to stand up for herself. She told Forrest to run, and she took her own advice to try to run as well. She eventually realized she needed to stop running and come to peace with herself. While it's bullshit she was killed as so many women are in media, her life meant something and she reached peace by the end. Throughout her various traumas she was always kind to others, she never continued the cycle of abuse onto others and therefore her deep resilience was always present on screen.
Yaaaas. Her character should be held up as an icon of representation of a woman's lot in life -- to recover one's dignity and sense of self-worth in the face of prevalent misogyny and abuse, both by individual men and in the eyes of society. She is a strong survivor who took what little she was given and did the best she could. In its era, only perhaps the female characters in The Color Purple comparably demonstrated an unflinching look at female survivorship and resilience.
I've read the book back in high school and can agree but it he is definitely a product of his time. A little bit more rough, a little more racist/ignorant of things but definitely "period accurate" in many ways.
Imagine what, say, Alexander Payne could have done with Book-Forrest. But movies like Citizen Ruth and Election or "60s-'70s satires like Candy, The Magic Christian, Little Murders, and so on typically make about 1% of Forrest Gump's box office. Strangelove and Network, thoughtful satires that connect with a wide audience and make bank, are true unicorns.
@@mohhie Not really, most places and cultures that are very diverse are like that. The dominant & oppressive culture or group of any place won't and can't speak for everyone that lives there. It's just that Americans (that don't benefit from said oppression) tend to be more vocal about that delineation.
@@mohhie This kind of comes across as "Only America is segregated by race", which I don't think is what you meant, but would be a very European thing to say. "Only America has been forced to acknowledge its segregation", maybe. Anyways, the majority of Americans aren't conservative, we just don't live in a functioning democratic system nowadays.
Hmm this might be the best explanation I’ve heard of why people view it as a conservative film. That said, idk I still like the story of Jenny 🤷🏾♀️ I’ve always found her character to be a litmus test for misogyny because I just cannot wrap my mind around the “she’s a villain” folks. That take has always come off misogynistic.
@@CatotheE exactly, she’s not good or evil. Humans are way more complicated than that. She is a survivor of sexual abuse who did the best she could. Both of them deserved partners who could better support them with their challenges.
@@MrShikaga To be clear, it's not just that I think they deserved better. I think Forrest deserved better than a washed up, broken down, old, whore with HIV. I feel bad for her, being abused. But she made terrible choices and really didn't deserve to settle down with the tall, handsome, millionaire at the end.
never been so uncharmed by a director. he just seems arrogant and nasty, and clearly has nothing valuable to say about his own work or America in general
Yes, and that the insanity is not new but carefully sown through the decades. You can see the prototypes of Trump types today, all throughout our past. It's not out of nowhere like American conservatives (and liberals for that matter!) have been groomed to believe
As an adult who has gone through a lot, now I cant help loathing this movies message and politics: just go with the flow, the system works, never question anything, America is inherently good. I still love Jenny as a character but she was done so dirty by this screenplay.
Beacuse what she goes through has some merit of a secular lifestyle with no purpouse as wrong. She friendzones Forrest for one she sees him as a child, an escapism buddy and 2 she was afraid of seeing the world more simple.
How dare we have a film about a man with a simple right or wrong complex. The fact that patriotism, not overthinking and being true to your values is considered propaganda. Even if it was conservative im sick and tired of people on the hating everything they disagree with and shame people for liking it. Most right leaning who are not on Washington or the internet watches movies with left leaning values and themes all the time. I love Forrest Gump cause it gives hope that the American Dream is possible and if you do the right thing and be true to who you are. We need to be more optamistic and true to our vales like Forrest. Maybe not as ignorant, but hpeful more then ever.
As an autistic (disabled) person, it especially stings that people just overcome their disabilities in the movie and are reintegrated into "normalcy". Society as it was back then, and as it is now is hostile to disabled people, we pay a huge price for successful integration into it. Either literally (certain disability aids) or by needing to spend immense energy to work/socialize and then being bedbound for days afterwards from pain and/or exhaustion. If we can at all.
Agreed. The film unapologetically embraces ableist tropes, and it seems like most people’s (especially most non-disabled people’s) view of it is frozen in time. If the movie were released today, people would be outraged, but, through the lens of nostalgia, they can’t see how problematic it is.
As someone diagnosed with Asperger' Syndrome and has seen this movie houndreads of times, I can understand what you say about adapting to a normal society (heck, The Incredibles tackles into this subject very well), but honestly I see Forrest' story as one of highs and lows, but pretty much succeeding in life, is interesting to see 20th Century American History through the lens of someone who is possibly within the autistic spectrum and dosen't understand much about some things, which might be one of the most realistic parts of the movie.
Dude, not a lot has really changed. But, as someone who is also on the spectrum of autism, let me just say after living through the 90s I can tell you it still sucked. Back then as it is now there's not much funding for people with disabilities and people online cannot stop using autism as either an insult or use it as some kind of strange flex for bragging rights... The condescension and ableism is enough to make you sick. There needs to be less of a message of people with disabilities needing to try to constantly fix themselves to fit into an ableist society.
This is why Punch Drunk Love, unintentional and vague as it may be, is still the best Hollywood film about an autistic character. It treats that character with empathy.
Except it's not true. Forrest's mother has to use sex in order to obtain the "normalcy" of Forrest going to a public school. That's not "just" overcoming disability, it's exploitation. Bubba is on a similar intelligence level to Forrest. He was drafted and dies in Vietnam. There is no normalcy to that. The government took advantage of someone with low cognitive abilities to use as just another body in a pointless war. Lieutenant Dan's personal struggle is more than just losing his legs. It's losing his faith in religion and the government. He doesn't integrate easily even with the help of veteran support groups or disability checks. He's depressed and goes to his only friend to have a spiritual fight with God during a storm where he reaches some inner peace. The film already showed how he was beaten by society so why it would it revert back to it after his arc? Forrest simply doesn't care about larger ideas. He probably doesn't think of himself as disabled. He's not autistic. He has an IQ near 70. It's not a movie's responsibility to show every kind of experience with intellectually disabled characters. It's telling its own story using a character with a low IQ who still knows right from wrong and follows his own moral system through decades of history.
I find some of these issues are also found in Back to the Future, just less so . This makes me think that if it was an accident, it was from subconscious bias
People forget Back to the Future is a sci-fi comedy (just like Ghostbusters), viewrrs are too busy thinking about all time travel stuff, pranks and funny moment, so you can enjoy it without without worrying about political biases, because the films are nout about that, just enjoy the ride (like my mother did years ago in Universal). And remember: "your future hasn't been written yet, no one has, your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one" - Emmet Brown
Although, while Back to the Future does indulge in both 1950s nostalgia and 1980s materialism, there is a level of...deconstruction to it, I guess? Like at first portraying 1950s in a positive light but then showing how a sexist asshole like Biff is able to push people around (and even tries to assault Lorraine) and get away with it. Then in the alternate-timeline 1985 in Part II, it's practically a conservative paradise what with Biff, a Trump-inspired businessman, basically ruling the country, unregulated chemical plants and factories being allowed to pollute without consequence, a newspaper saying that Nixon was reelected to his fifth term as President, etc. Although I suppose that part might be Bob Gale's doing rather than Zemeckis lol
"How was it that a film so beloved by the generally-liberal Hollywood elites... came to be so gleefully embraced by the far right?" ... because the generally-liberal Hollywood elites are actually pretty darn conservative? Liberal ≠ Left. The US Democratic Party are NOT Leftists! And we may separate "Liberals" from "Conservatives" in US politics, but in a capitalist Liberal Democracy like the USA, Liberalism IS a conservative ideology. I appreciate that there's a huge space of political difference between Conservative Republicans like Pat Buchanan and Liberal Democrats like Aaron Sorkin when it comes to a relatively small number of publicly-debated issues such as abortion rights and the separation of Church & State, but they're both broadly in favor of preserving the current US-centric, capitalist, imperialist, etc. etc. world order. "Hollywood elites" may not generally be "big C" Conservative in the sense of endorsing "traditional Christian family values" or supporting Republicans - aside from Zach Snyder, Mel Gibson, Michael Bay, Charlton Heston, Clint Eastwood... actually, there are quite a few prominent Conservatives in Hollywood! However, at a more fundamental level, Hollywood - both in the 90's and generally - generally makes movies which broadly endorse conservative Liberal values (that's "small c conservative" and "big L" Liberal): capitalism, consumerism, individualism, reformism/gradualism/legalism, US nationalism, patriarchy, violence as a tool of social preservation, veneration of the police & military, etc. Even Hollywood movies that offer social or political critiques tend to focus on individual changes ("get the bad guy out") or surface-level reforms rather than ever even considering systemic change as an option. Forrest Gump is a well-meaning individual man who navigates a corrupt and confusing world successfully and touches many people's lives positively, while simply taking the underlying structure of society as a given - and that's a staple trope of BOTH Liberal and Conservative worldviews. (As Broey explains in economic terms much better than I could during the "Problem with Popular Filmmaking" section of this video, starting at 30:27.)
Damn straight! Jenny represents the left, which is why she is seen the anti-war protestors and the black panthers that are shown to be violent thugs. Forrest Gump is the moderate the centre thats why he has many conservative values but also is colourblind when seggregation comes up. Like you said conservative Liberal.
yeah I don't think it was purely a marketing or "money" decision either, i think a great deal of ideology slipped through the film, not to make it appealing to a wider public, but revealing the biases of the filmmakers around subjects of oppression and integration, as well as stereotypical portrayals of hippie culture as a shorthand for degeneracy and evil
The fact Forrest is not depicted killing anybody is just ridiculous, he's a solider, who's job is killing his country perceived enemies, the act of not depicting war as it bare minimum of ppl killing each other, is just... absurd,PERPLEXING, I am baffled, confounded even Like bro what is this,military propaganda?! I gone and watch the battle scene and the depiction of the battlefield is so nebulous, distant even
this is true but I dont think zack snyder is a conservative, I think his movies are just kinda dumb and also adapt frank miller comics, but his personal politivs dont seem to lean very conservative. However I do understand ur point+why hes here bc his movies being successful shows that conservatism regardless of its intentionality is not a powerless force in hollywood and in fact can be a massive moneymaker
I've never seen Forrest Gump as a conservative film. Quite the opposite in fact. I've always viewed the character of Forrest as a metaphor for America and Americans in general; mindlessly walking through history not knowing or understanding what is going on around them, but going along with it anyway. This is reflected by the fact that the movie is seen through his eyes and not that of an observer who gives context, so when he comes across rights activism, for example, all he sees is what's in front of him and not the reasons behind it. When he goes to war, he doesn't question why, he just goes along and does what he's told. We aren't told in the movie the background behind these events, we're supposed to know already. This is a criticism of Americanism, not a celebration of it. The fact that conservatives latched on to the movie and claimed it as their own, should ring alarm bells for anyone who watched it, to praise the unquestioned and uneducated and support those who just do what they're told. The fact that they latched on to it is also an unintentional criticism of them, as conservatives typically don't have a good eye for metaphor, allegory or art. They prefer to be spoon-fed surface-level information and meaning, not layered and complex meaning that requires background knowledge.
this is a REALLYY good interpretation. i can only disagree on the fact that i dont believe this message was the directors/writers intent. i think youre just insanely big brained intellegent and give their writinf more credit than its due. brillian interpretation though fr god.
This reading doesn't account for the fact that Forrest is rewarded in life for just going along with things. Jenny and Lt.Dan are the victims of American history in the movie, they have suffered on its behalf, and the only time they find peace is when they take on Forrest's perspective and conform. The movie is saying that's a good thing and at no point legitimizes any criticisms of the system, instead it implies that it will all work itself out with or without anyone struggling against it. It is a very American minded film in that way, but it's definitely not some secret political satire.
I never thought about the conservative undertones in Back to the Future. I can understand tho how much easier it is to critique Forest instead bc it has less pop culture impact imo than Back to the Future.
Idk about less impact. Back to the Future is pretty damn popular and constantly in rotation even amongst younger people. Probably even more than Forrest Gump. I think really it's just the sci-fi elements and it being much more broadly a comedy makes it easier for people to swallow whatever conservative Reaganite ideologies it has going on.
The sequels do a lot to redeem BttF, adding self-awareness and irony, as well as a less shockingly pro-consumerist moral message. I think that makes a big difference in their enduring appeal. The first one by itself is dated and socially alien in a startling way, but being recontextualised by the second and third one helps us see it in a more charitable light.
@@AlexThe1MenaceForrest is pretty dang popular, even 30 years later, yeah it is true that Back to the Future might had a broader appeal, especially to geeks, because of the reasons you say, it's a sci-fi comedy, just like Ghostbusters. Coincidentally, the BTTF trilogy and Forrest are some of my favorite and most rewatched films, so I owe a lot to Zemeckis.
the whole jenny part always felt a bit weird to me. like she goes through so much, almost like an object on which you put all of your cruelty. she seemed so absurd to me that it seemed like a satire on the conservative ideas of women, where women are seen as dumb objects who don't know the "good path" by themselves, they are attracted towards liberal ideas, which destroys them and in the end, it is actually an "empty headed" conservative man through whom she becomes "better". and well, she will be punished for her "sins". the amount of bad things that happen to jenny are so absurd that if you put her in dark comedy, you have a really good satire on conservative ideas of women.
@Sanger2007 The treatment of Jenny and the film “bros” fans are what turned me so against the films, including the idea that if a man likes you and you don’t like him back, you are a “bad woman “. Because the film takes almost nothing seriously, Jenny is “over sensitive “ for reacting to things that happen to and around her.
Not... really? The character made sense, she was clearly suffering from trauma, the problem is most of her development happens offscreen. There's an interesting arc buried in there but it isn't really shown onscreen. We just see her hopping from one problem to the next, until she realizes her mistakes offscreen
@@officialmonarchmusic so it was omitted instead of incorporating it artfully into the storyline and the only character of real interest…? that was a creative decision that paid off 😬
Now that you have described the film, I feel that "Millennium Actress" did a much better job at exploring the complicated history of Japan through the very specific perspective of one woman. What I adore about that film is that it is very romantic and optimistic in nature but it also does show how Imperial Japan has also been responsible for taking away the love of her life and in aknowledging that much of this fantastical portrayal of her history is ultimately her own perspective of her journey and that she tries to find inspiration in which she herself has been able to overcome in her life to be such an admirable figure and that she cannot regret taking on her choices. The love of her life isn’t simply there to be a symbol of loging for the past but also a representation of her passion and what she has currently become as a woman and a person.
...does it actually show the evils of imperial japan? it shows the bombing of japan by america, and how it harmed japanese people, but it doesnt explain what chiyoko's love interest was doing in manchuria, the horrors of the concentration camps japan ran there. that film does the same thing forrest gump does, "the real victims of the vietnam war are the american conscripts and no one else" "the real victims of imperial japan are japanese people, and no one else"
Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I think there's still satire in the film, only it's not focused only on Forrest but the US. Like how Forrest had an IQ below average, and yet he graduated college (by only paying football), was called a genius in the army, and got to meet various presidents, or also how he became a millionaire not despite, but because he was "not a smart man", reaching middle age with total economic security. The US comes off as a bizarre country where any idiot can "make it", and I thought that was an exaggeration, but, uh, you had Trump as president, so...?
Its difficult to enjoy satire when its satirizing a myth, I think? Like I totally see what you're saying. But I also can't ignore how the american dream doesn't really work. We talk about it, but our examples, such as trump, had the so called small loan of a million dollars. But being American definitely impacts my feelings here.
I'm from the US I see it the same way. I always understood the movie as Forrest lucking into situations and his character is what made him so unusual/memorable. Like the Watergate incident and him reporting it, or him meeting Elvis and teaching him the dance moves, it wasn't him doing anything spectacular, was just the right place and the right time. I don't think I've ever seen this movie as a way of celebrating conservative values and I still don't.
I think you're missing the way America works here. Forrest Gump was not "any idiot." Forrest Gump was a tall, good-looking, white male idiot who was good a sports. He had a ton of advantages, just not intelligence.
I came into the comments to point out the same thing. I always felt like the film was more a criticism of American culture and ‘The American Dream’ by suggesting that the only way to be happy in America is not to have a view point or to think critically about the history and culture. Those who do think more deeply seem to suffer. And then saying that any idiot could become successful, being down to pure luck alone.
This perspective also makes sense, which would make it more ironic for conservatives to co-opt its messaging. But the last point 32:58 makes the films satire fall a bit flat
You listed a couple instances where Forrest was showing emotion to the events happening around him. Unless I missed it, you do realize the reason he ran for three years, two months, 14 days, and 16 hours, is because of the pain he felt when Jenny left him? He spent that entire time trying to run away from his, cough, emotions. "My mama always said you've got to put the past behind you before you can move on, and I think that's what my running was all about."
The 'picaresque' novel was born and bread in Spain 🇪🇸 the term was coined in the 16th century with the publication of the great novel: El lazarillo de Tormes (anonymous) and then it quickly spread across Europe.
When Zemeckis says he is a fan of history, an amateur historian, I can't help but get the sense that what he means is he's a fan of spectacle - which...isn't as interesting. I'd suggest most people are. And, as you say, when you do a historical study through a spectacular, uncritical gaze you produce nostalgia.
He's a fan of history as a story of big, important people doing big, grandiose deeds, which is how history has been taught in America and what a lot of conservative white guys think history is.
27:00 I don't see Dan getting his life back that way at all. Its not told as "hes happy because he's conformed". Its just that he's found a purpose in life beyond dying like his ancestors in war.
He's marrying an asían woman, like he dosen't have predjudices against his past anymore, I don't see how this could be seen as wrong in today's world of inclusivity.
Thank you! You nailed it. And also, this part of the story is true to history. Many Vietnam vets married wives whom they'd met in Asia or in the States after they'd emigrated to a new home away from the war-torn region. In this case, Dan's wife is probably second-generation Asian-American. But, if anything, Dan's new lease on life with a spouse of Asian descent also speaks to the growing multi-cultural nature of American marriages starting in the 1960's and 70's.
Lieutenant Dan's years as an impoverished disabled veteran also contradict the claim that the movie has some sort of agenda to show that reward is given to those deserving, and this fits with the conservative vision of America. Lt Dan is a more competent person than Forrest, he's a true believer in dying for America, as opposed to Forrest who just does what he's told, and yet he is the one who suffers.
A minor quibble...vietnam was not an "utterly pointless war". its point was to reinforce american imperial hegemony and empower and further cement the success and dominion of the military industrial complex. it was extremely successful. it extracted untold wealth from the masses to the rulership, and it served an important social role to assert consent from the mainstream in order to normalize this same behavior in the future to the point where now we got a minion in west asia just running rampant with daddy's resources. and also any thinking person knows they did jenny so dirty omg.
That’s all very true but it is important to remember that the reasons individuals fight (or choose not to) in wars are often very different from the reasons nations fight in the same wars. You fairly characterize the national reason to fight but many individuals in it or in the society at that time saw it as pointless. They didn’t benefit from it. They often didn’t care about any of that. It was, from the standpoint of their individual lives, completely pointless. Very few Americans benefited from the national reason and many more than actually fought were actively harmed by it and still are today by the continuation of those same goals, both in and separate from other wars. The exact same thing can be said about many wars in many countries. National goals simply don’t align with individual needs in most wars. So yeah, from a certain viewpoint, you’re right, but it is more complicated than that.
I didn't watch Death Becomes Her until a couple months ago; it was fantastic but felt very ironic that Robert Zemeckis made a movie about resisting the temptation to extend your career by becoming a plastic abomination, and now he's turned his career into making plastic abominations.
Forest Gump the character is unquestioning, unintelligent, pure and does whatever the government tells him to do. He is rewarded for this by becoming incredibly rich and eventually getting the girl of his dreams. Jenny Curran takes drugs, has pre-marital sex and questions the government and the Vietnam war. For this she will be unhappy, suicidal and eventually die of AIDS. That is what I remember about the movie when I saw it all those years ago in the cinema. I think Robert Zemeckis is a fantastic director, but "Forest gump" is just a very well made bad movie.
I like the point, but Fukiyama at least admits that there was Historical ideological conflict during the period FG depicts... FG is more "there never was any history"
as an og forrest gump hater, it was definitely the way he didn't seem to have a perspective or feelings or inferiority that turned me off. it's such a messed up way to present an intellectually disabled character, and i think the fact he was changed in such a way by itself speaks to a certain amount of conservative ideology
@@dandylandpuffplaysminecraf8744 I am not the biggest Tarantino fan but even I would have to disagree with what you said, Pulp Fiction was extremely influential when it came out and it still is, whether you like it or not is left to your opinion but it is not dated
Unfortunately, this is world of 20/20 rewind vision. I guess I would say that all three were worthy of Best Picture -- Forrest Gump likely appealed to the widest array of Oscar voters, so it got top prize. But, each was worthy in it's own way.
It’s a movie that makes conservatives feel good about their conservative values. There is plenty of suffering depicted in the movie, but none of it stems from systemic oppression or systems that serve only to benefit certain classes protected by conservatism (the way it is in the real world). Rather, suffering is just a thing that happens indiscriminately and at the universe’s whim. The primary female and Black characters endure an ungodly amount of suffering, but it isn’t at the hands of Forrest-if anything, he’s the only bright spot in their miserable, pathetic lives before they die tastefully and young, their purposes fulfilled. It’s really very good propaganda, because it doesn’t ever feel like it’s pushing a message on you. It just feels like it’s trying to give you the warm fuzzies by watching this affable, dim-witted man succeed. But that’s what makes it so sinister. That said, I could never blame anyone for feeling sentimental and nostalgic about this movie. I’m sure I’m not the only one with parents who claim it as a favorite and know every line. I know I’m not alone in having been quoted “I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is,” and “Life is like a box of chocolates-you never know what you’re gonna get” from so early on in childhood that I hadn’t even seen the movie yet. For me, Forrest Gump falls into the same category as most copaganda: at the end of the day, it is depicting something that doesn’t exist. The world as it’s being portrayed in this media is a fantasy. As long as you stay abreast of that fact and engage your critical thinking while you consume it, there’s nothing wrong with enjoying it or holding positive associations with certain aspects of it.
Also really shows how little many of them think about things, they don't ask (in context of the film): - why were black people not allowed in the same places as white people? - why did we send troops to Vietnam? - why are people rejecting our way of life? Granted, the film didn't ask either
this is absurd. Did you miss the scene showing Bubba's family going back generations? Was that not "systemic"? How about the education system and its treatment of Forrest? Not systemic? Did Bubba's family have a brief miserable pathetic life after being made rich by Forrest? It goes on and on. You resent the idea of a "good America" that's slightly hinted at in the movie, and so you see what you want to see. Just like how you resent seeing "good cops". So in your mind, it morphs into having "ummm, an actually evil message you guys...." You're not "engaging your critical thinking", you're seeing the world (and this film) thru the lenses of your own biases, angry it doesn't align perfectly.
This was a truly an excpetional video and a fascinating point of view through which to consider this film. One that never occured to me and it was a thrilling watch. The means with which you've structured this video coupled with the numerous citations from the novel speak to the level of thought, care and work you've put into this. Amazing work and thank you! 100% earned a new subscriber with this.
I had a brace on my leg during my childhood and I got made fun of A LOT by other kids with references to Forrest Gump, so I could never emotionally latch onto the way my peers did. Also, the Black Panthers scene doesn't sit well with me.
It’s definitely a different experience as a POC. It’s implied that Forest was the inspiration for most of the things African Americans were responsible for and implied he’s better at doing Chinese things too. And that’s not even getting into the depictions of the Black Panthers and the Vietnamese. Physical disabilities are treated like a mild inconvenience and I think without Tom Hank’s admittedly endearing performance the mental disability of the main character would fair just as poorly because it centralized the idea that a mediocre white man can fall into success using the ideas of a black man better than he could. Which again wouldn’t have been as much of a noticeable theme if Bubba hadn’t been cast as black and the undermining of minorities didn’t consistently happen. (Elvis’s dancing inspiration, ending desegregation, him stopping the watergate burglary etc. it’s not lost on me the bench listener to his name origin is a black woman, and that his kid continues that name despite it’s origins) Funny enough his running scene is harder to place in its historic context. There was the first 100 miles endurance race won by Andy Gonzales that year, but what gets me is that’s the very year the 504 sit I for disability rights was held in 1977 which seems like a more relevant historic event to the character. While the character movie Forest isn’t exactly a racist one, unlike in the book, the way the events in the background are portrayed certainly are.
I cannot speak to your very personal experience with having a leg brace while growing up, but I think I can shed some light on why the Black Panthers were portrayed the way they were in the film. Consider the times in which the film itself was made -- the 1990s. Compared with today, the 90's were less than a generation away from the end of the Black Panther Movement. As such, the national conversation about the significance of the Movement was not as advanced or nuanced as it is today. Meaning, the vast majority of Americans still did not believe that a more militant political movement could a be an appropriate avenue to achieve greater racial equality -- that recognition did not really come until Twitter and the Black Lives Matter Movement, twenty years in the future.. So, yes. The portrayal of the Black Panthers may seem a bit "off" or dated to us today, but for the 1990's it was of its time. -- On the other hand, I thought the way the movie portrays Jenny's boyfriend as a wannabe Panther who doesn't really get the cause or even believe in it beyond the surface level (cuz he's a clueless jerk) is absolutely spot on. That is such a great statement about the (generally) white liberals who say they're for a cause, but their support is really a sham because they want to leverage what the cause stands for so that they can feel good about themselves, or whatever.
@@meganhartmann180 Civilized people still don't think that violence is an appropriate manner of protest, or that it accomplishes anything. The non-violent tactics of MLK in the 60s accomplished a lot. The Black Panther movement of the 70s didn't accomplish anything but ingraining the image of black people as violent thugs in the eyes of many white people.
@@ookamiblade6318 Ping Pong/table tennis was created by an Englishman in the 19th century. Do you just assume that because Chinese are famous for ping pong that it's "their" thing? Ping-pong diplomacy was a real event. "Most of the things." It was one thing and it isn't some simple history that Elvis "stole" his dance move of shaking his hips from black artists. Are we saying black people are responsible for shaking legs and hips in the way Elvis did? It's an uncomplicated way of dancing that other cultures do too. You're completely wrong that physical disabilities are treated as a mild inconvenience. Lieutenant Dan is an alcoholic and depressed and it shows how he struggles with mobility, especially when it's icy. He has to create a system to maneuver around the boat, but he makes it his own space and he gains agency from it. I don't know how you can come away from the film and think that Forrest is mediocre. It's not there in the narrative and it's against the ethos of the film. People are capable of great things. We shouldn't judge people by what's shown on the surface. He didn't use a black man's ideas better than he could. Bubba didn't have the money to start a shrimp business himself. He was drafted before he could do anything. Forrest got lucky with shrimping when every other boat in the harbor was destroyed in a storm. Depiction is not endorsement. The film showing how the black population was treated is obviously showing that it wasn't okay. The desegregation scene is showing how Forrest doesn't follow the mob mentality and does the right thing. He isn't taking any credit for desegregation. Nixon is the one who set Forrest up in the hotel. It's satirically showing that he caused his own downfall in more than one way. You exaggerate and misrepresent what happens in the background. If you're going into something with negativity, you're going to find it, but it's a reflection of you, not the film.
@@nightlurker4605 you assumed I was talking about the ping pong exclusively, and while I do think the fact that China was promoting ‘friendship first competition second’ and the athletes were specifically instructed by Mao to ‘not to win every match’ is an omission that is a big contextual change that gives the scene a political slant. The fact that an American athlete got close enough to a world leader in a medical crisis or at any time during the visit also implies all sorts of incompetence on the part of the Chinese leading to the impression that white men do it better. Side note, you know who played a role in getting ping pong diplomacy to happen, the Black Panther Party another side lining of a major accomplishment. Elvis did in fact steal his dance moves and whole songs outright from black artists so implying he could have gotten it anywhere is making excuses. You can say he was ‘inspired’ by them, but he rarely gave them credit. It was legit argued that Hound Dog wasn’t a ‘cover since listeners were innocent of Willie Mae Thornton’s original 1953 release’ she sold copies of her release for just 500$ despite it being written for her. The artists he let ride his coat tails were mildly favorable to him because they admit he had talent, the artist he profited off of were much less favorable, but there is no denying that his legacy is rooted in taking song and dance from black folk and making it white enough to be popular. I’m sorry disability was inspiration p@r and mild inconveniences. Those childhood leg braces, mild inconveniences they literally burst off mid imitation of a lyn@hing. The war veteran, double amputee, see look how accomplished he is. His alcoholism and depression wasn’t even from his amputations, just that he didn’t die as he expected to. He got a rich friend to pay for accommodations and his life was great and purposeful. That’s inspiration p@rn 101. The fact that you don’t see how taking Bubba’s idea and making it successful isn’t a rehash of how racism works is wild to me, (but then again you missed Elvis, I’m sure you missed Eminem, who usually gets a pass on this because at least he admits to it, John Wayne, the Kardashians, to white tic tok dancers who take choreography from black creators and make more money than the original, etc) sure Bubba didn’t have the money to make it successful, now why might that be? Depiction may not be endorsements, but framing is. It was in fact a black man who interrupted the Watergate break in. His absence is a choice. The manipulation of historical events is happening, but not by me. I’m just saying the framing is deeply uncomfortable for someone who is Chinese, Black and disabled to watch this film especially if you’re aware of history and not blinded by American exceptionalism.
The point of the film becoming part of the American memory of these events is pretty interesting. This reminds me of how John Reed's account of the October Revolution in Ten Day That Shook the World became for many Russian revolutionaries the definitive account of the events. They would start referencing the book as if it was their memory.
I seem to remember learning that as a character back story, the narrator of Fight Club unironically loves the movie Forrest Gump. Which is just so perfect.
In the film, at least, Tyler does shout "Run, Forrest, Run!" at the guy who wanted to be a vet but worked in a store. Which would make sense since... ...he and the narrator are the same person.
@@blutroyale8072 Yeah. I know. I’ve seen the movie, read the novel, and have a fight club meme group. But thanks for telling me what happens in a movie that I brought up.
I think there are major flaws in this essay. This film heavily utilises the technique of "Dramatic Irony", which is where the audience knows more than the characters in the text, Forrest is also an unreliable narrator as an extension of this. The essayist selectively quotes Forrest on speaking about his name sake, in that he goes on to explain that his mama gives him that name as a reminder that "sometimes people do things that don't make no sense", but the essayist doesn't include that part of his quote, which is the commentary on the confederacy and its legacy, and as such is a commentary on conservatism. Forrest doesn't understand Jenny's background and her trauma, but we can. And because we can, we can have empathy for her: that is if we have the personal framework to feel empathy for her. Forrest doesn't see the army guy pull the mic jack silencing Forrest from speaking, but we do. The camera's eye showing us that part of the reality of that moment, is commentary on the way "the establishment" wanted to skew and silence the reality of what happened in the war. We don't need Forrest to tell us the American war in Vietnam was brutal and traumatic, we can see it. Lieutenant Dan doesn't throw off the counter culture and get absorbed into a more traditional way of life. He was a true believer in the military, and starts drinking and taking drugs as a way to self medicate after what he views as being denied his legacy. His long hair wasn't a reflection of hippie values, any more than Forrest's was when his hair grew out during his running. Their hair choices, unlike the hippies, is not about rebelling against the status quo, its about letting themselves go as they try and process their trauma. Forrest doesn't feel nothing or remain unaffected by his life experiences, he runs for years literally because Jenny leaves him after they sleep together. He literally runs away from his problems for years. Clearly where Pat Buchanan and other conservatives of the time (and the essayist here,) make mistakes about the film, is that they are playing an extreme version of death of the author, and projecting their own point of view onto the film, rather than looking at the actual choices and therefore the statements the film is making.
You've crossed the threshold to that space where a new Z.D. video drop will set the tone for my whole day feeling better. I love your insights, I love your work.
I found Forest Gump to be the opposite of what Little Big Man was despite both stories basically mirroring each other. LBM was a humanization of indigenous people through the western genre lens. Dustin Hoffman's character bounces through those tumultuous times witnessing cruelty, broken treatise, and slaughter, all while having the best biting sense of humor. But it held truth close by its side. Gump on the other hand always felt like some self aggrandizing boomer wet dream.
While this is an interesting (and valid) take on a cultural touchtone of the mid-90's., I think it misses the mark in some aspects. I'm really glad that the essay brings up Candide, because I didn't know up until watching the video that the plot and style of an 18th century work was such an inspiration to the Forest Gump story. However, when Broey implies that the film takes out all that irony, I completely disagree. It takes out the cynicism in the original Gump character, but not the irony implied in the narrative. Starting with Forest's naïve, yet spot-on interpretation of what made the KKK such a silly yet pernicious organization that was still revered in in the south well into the 20th century, to the fact that putting all one's money into a "fruit" company could establish a very comfortable nest egg, the movie was chock full of satire. (Like, Gump pointing out that the soldiers in Vietnam were always on the hunt for "a guy named Charlie"? Talk about an exercise in military futility -- laughable but also accurate). -- I think Forrest Gump is best read not as an allegory and but rather as a story about very human and flawed characters whose lives are intertwined by fate and fortune, and are set against the backdrop of a broad-sweeping tour of recent American history. If seen this way, I think it is a masterpiece that attempts to fashion meaning out of a very odd book. And, by reading in between the lines, the viewer is also treated to a biting satire on the absurdities of American history.
@@wjglll340 Okay, I'll bite. A feminist critique would be that women, throughout all of American history, have been at a disadvantage compared to men. Our lives are objectively harder than men's lives, as a whole, due to the Western mind valuing men and their contributions to society on a higher plane and devaluing women and women's contributions. And, true to American history, Jenny's life is harder than Forest's even though he has the disadvantage of having a major learning disability. Feminist perspective? Check. As for Marxist, one could argue that Forest Gump shows a considered glorification of the classic American capitalist system -- follow the party line, don't try to buck the system, get yourself a college degree, invest wisely in some stocks, and you'll be set for life. Forest does this, and he does well. Jenny follows a different life -- not going to college, going off to be a hippie (whom some would consider to be Marxists), and becoming a musician. Her lot in life is eventually becoming a low-wage earning mom who works her butt off at a diner while trying to support her kid. From a Marxist point of view, the movie's portrayal of the proper way to achieve success seems pretty narrow, and the alternative seems quite bleak. Marxist critique? Check.
@@aR0ttenBANANA Mmmm, are you talking about Candide, here? I am not sure how reading an 18th century work of satire in the original French has bearing on whether a movie adaptation from a different book which was possibly inspired by Candide then can be said to have elements of satire in it (the movie, I mean).
Outside the US, the movie was very much seen as a a conservative fairy tale from the get go. Beautifully crafted and compelling but a fairy tale, none the less.
are you sure? because if that's true, then it seems that people outside the US are even more conservative. unless you specify what excactly do you mean by "outside the US". is europe considered outside the US? i don't know about other regions, but in europe people definetely love forrest gump
I'm from the US and I see it in a similar light. Both Forrest and Jenny have misfortunes handed to them as children, Jenny, who wishes she could become a bird, tries to run away from her problems, constantly moving around, falling into vices that eventually claim her life. Forrest, through his simplemindedness, never feels sorry for himself and keeps moving forward in life, achieving great success.
Forrest Gump always reminded me of Disney‘s Snow White - two stories about a stays hopeful and optimistic in the face of the horrors that surround them. But Snow White was written for the people of the 30s and the horrors were things like hungry and a cruel ruling class.
I always read it as hopeful and just a fairy tale with a message to keep trying as a teen….but then again not living in the states most of the politics passed me by, now with a greater understanding I can see the flaws, but don’t we also still need movies and stories than spur us on in difficult times to just keeping trying to move on probably now more than ever. The world seems pretty screwed up and just feel we need some escapism and hope. I really don’t need reminding the future is bleak I have the news for that.
I despise this movie on the basis that my first name is forrest, and I grew up in the 90s, the amount of times I have heard 'run forrest run' is enough to make even the most stable people go insane.
I rewatched Forrest Gump a few years ago with the mentality that it's loved by conservatives... and I still don't fully see it. Forrest gets into his successes mostly through overtly dumb luck or external circumstances rather than hard work: his mother sleeps with the school board admin, he becomes a quarterback by accident and he's just naturally good at running and ping-pong. He doesn't espouse a love for conservative ideologies and seems to be ignorant of politics in general, despite being a witness to many historical events. If it's an endorsement of conservatism, it's a pretty poor one. I think a better reading of the film is the importance of having a support network, through the comparison of Forrest and Jenny. Forrest lacks a father but has a supportive mother who provides a stable home and education for him. Forrest generally trusts those around him and is able to find those who support him (Bubba, Lt. Dan). Jenny has an abusive father and grows up with trust issues. Despite being smarter than Forrest at school, she has no support other than Forrest himself. When they go their separate ways after graduation, Jenny loses the only stable thing in her life and falls in with abusive lovers (a sadly common occurrence to those who have come from abusive backgrounds) and this hampers her ability to have a successful life.
I'd say someone who truly fits as the patron saint of the conservative canon of the 80s and early 90s is John Hughes with Ferris Bueller and Home Alone essentially being full blown celebrations of Reaganite Conservative politics and 80s consumerism. John Hughes was also openly sympathetic to the conservative movement. Forrest Gump in that sense is a close to that era in some ways.
I know he was a republican but I don't see how it manifests in Ferris Bueller? Isn't he the opposite of someone who "works hard and deservedly gets what he wants". He's quite an anti authority figure and Cameron's ultimate freedom is to the destroy the expensive car which is his dad's expression of wealth.
Thank you for saying that about skeevy John Hughes. I get so tired of this narrative he was supposed to the voice of my generation. No, he was a boomer and it showed. What he did was make films depicting teenagers with a sense of inferiority, which is good and all, but he couldn't do it without embedding sexual harassment and other garbage into the plots and setting them in an almost entirely white-bread world.
@@tvsonicserbia5140 Those are fair points you make but I do think the movies definitely give a very 'Morning in America' vibe with a very sanitised view (not that they had to be edgy to be good or anything, and I do think both are good films btw), with an idealised vision of white, upper middle class suburbia with its conspicuous consumption as something to be aspired to (tho your point of the Ferrari somewhat goes against that I will admit). Side note, the iconic scene with the boring history teacher from Ferris Bueller features a conservative pundit named Ben Stein, and there is an interesting interview with him regarding the movie on Time magazine available online.
@@tvsonicserbia5140Ferris is only anti-authority to the point that it doesn’t actually have an consequences on him. His actions have consequences for others but what does he trade in for such transgressions? Nothing. He doesn’t learn anything.
When I saw the title of this video "Is Forrest Gump a conservative movie?" THE very first thing I thought of was the leg braces scene. The idea that he's not REALLY disabled, at least not physically, he can simply litterally snap out of those leg braces it if he tries hard enough. If he's MOTIVATED enough. When a fire was lit under his ass it turned out w could simply become un-disabled. The problem was never his disability, the problem was that he was being too coddled. Forrest is like a bumblebee. His wings are too small for him to be able to fly but he's too stupid to know that so he does it anyway. There's nothing wrong with the system. The best thing to do is to to just truck along, never complain, never question anything and never advocate for yourself and you too will be successful eventually.
I highly disagree about the movie not being a satire. Like others here, maybe it's the fact that I'm not American, but I always saw this as a satire on American ideals. Forrest not understanding the meaning of big historical events is a great way to show this POV as a fantasy. As if you have to be ignorant in order to see some of those things as positive. It's especially noticeable when Forrest is in the army and the drill sergeant calls him a genious because he's following orders without thinking. In countries that have mandatory service, that joke felt spot on. Meanwhile, Jenny, who is aware of politics, sexual abbuse and racism, has hard time coping with reality and even contemplates suicide. It only fits that like the people following Forrest as he's running, politicians and critics in real life tried to find a meaning they could reflect on. BTW, ironically, Voltaire was pretty racist. Writing on anyone from Blacks to Jews to Muslims as being inferior to white Europeans.
Candide comes to mind in your Voltaire tangent. And also, Forrest reminds me of Claude Geux from Victor Hugo’s work but in a twisted way where his lack of education and relative lack of forethought get disproportionately rewarded by the American system instead of the disproportionate punishment seen in Claude’s case.
really, a lot of satire of America (like in "The Simpsons") either come off more as just comedy (and very exaggerated) to forgein viewers and not as commentary, or vice versa.
as a non american that knows a lot about American culture this is not satire. the whole idea about the american dream is satire itself, but sounds and looks soo great that republicans have been looking for that even before Reagan saying Lets make america great again.
At one point he goes to space with an orangutan and a female astronaut. They crash and get captured by a tribe of cannibals, led by a yale educated chief, and Forrest has to play him in chess every day or else they'll eat them. It's such a dumb book
So somehow, despite forest gump being one of my mom’s favorite movies (she likes it because she relates to forest gump since she’s also disabled and learned to overcome her disability) the first time I saw it was last Christmas. I deal with debilitating anxiety and depression that always get worse around the holidays. And I started spiraling (I’m not even sure about what) and spent most of Christmas Eve crying in the living room with my mom because I felt s*icidal. While all of this was happening forest gump was playing on the tv behind us and my mom was able to get me to focus on the movie instead of my spiral and it helped calmed me down. I love forest gump, not because I like the movie itself, but because that Christmas Eve I was afraid I wouldn’t see the new year and I’m still here. I just wanted to share why this movie is so important to me
The scene where Forrest speaks to a whole crowd, but then it's cut off, he was going to talk about people who don't come back to Vietnam and die there, which is what he saw when Bubba died, is on the script.
The only valid criticism of the Vietnam war for the average American is that the soldiers died, how sad, the suffering of the colonizers Never the suffering of the colonized The vietnamese being only NPCs for the feelings of the Americans
When my Screenwriting class had a film canon excercise, where each of us submitted our top 10 movies of all time, Forest Gump won. And even as someone who really doesn't like this movie, I see it as almost too American to be disliked by Americans. Even though it ends on a hopeful note, those notes of counter culture and disillusionment give the illusion that the movie's more balanced than it is & allows Forest to come off like a fantasy of someone who maybe wouldn't have done the "right" thing in the 60s and 70s, but would at least not participate in the worst parts of that era. To me, that lack of perspective and the flat portrayal of Jenny make it an extremely uninteresting movie to revisit, but I think most people remember the emotional impact they have watching it over any of these issues. They laugh when Forest says something silly in the edited archival footage, they cry over Sally Field and Robin Wright giving this material way more than it deserves, and by the end feel like they've gone through everything when, I'd argue, this film goes through really basic emotional moments. The book sounds really interesting though, I wouldn't mind seeing it adapted more faithfully one day. Unfortunately, despite all the changes, I wonder if this could happen so long as the film looms so large. Who would earnestly walk into a movie theatre to see a book-accurate Forest's journey without at least passively thinking of the '94 film?
The thing is, if the book is re-adapted (kinda like how Harry Potter is being re-adapted into a tv show), would it be well received by those who like the film already (like myself), I read the book, it has some weird shit like Forrest having a monkey as a friend or going into space, I don't know if some of these things could have been adapted into film (funnily enough, Tom Hanks would star in Apollo 13, I love that film honestly). Btw, did you know the movie almost had a sequel but it was cancelled due to 9/11?
I always have a problem with this kind of approach to film analysis as it sidessteps considerations for a films actual quality, art and storytelling in favour of considering them as package boxes for "good" or "bad" ideology. as if good films have a prerequisite of being ideologically critical or left leaning and cannot be judged on their own merits
This is an impressively well written and argued video. I'm also surprised I never encountered the term "picaresque" before. I've never seriously studied literature, but given how specifically that term describes a story style and how common those kind of stories are, one would think I would've read or heard it in passing years ago.
As a disabled kid who grew up with this movie on constant rotation thank you for this analysis. You not only articulated so many of my issues with Forest’s character but also helped me understand why my dad puts this movie on such a pedestal
Controversial, but I never like Forest Gump.😅 It's basically Disney's MCU for American history nerds, filled with easter eggs that only matter to those in the know. While it left a sour taste in my mouth for how empty every characters feel. Like the feather is suppose to symbolize going with the flow, but it kinda lacks "purpose". I just don't buy into the ideology. Jenny's bitter journey also felt way too tragic, like what's the point?
As a non-American (Finnish), I watched this as child and was confused. Only later in my adulthood I watched iy again and it made sense. I had no idea of American history back then because that wasn't my own country
I always have a problem with this kind of approach to film analysis as it sidessteps considerations for a films actual quality, art and storytelling in favour of considering them as package boxes for "good" or "bad" ideology. as if good films have a prerequisite of being ideologically critical or left leaning and cannot be judged on their own merits
I liked Forrest Gump when it came out. I was 14. Now that I'm in my 40's, I see it like most Zemekis projects: geared towards children. Most people are pretty simple minded, and incapable of critical analysis like the kind you do. Keep up the good work!
It's weird that's zemeckis has two movies that retcon the early development of rock n roll as being more white. Marty inspiring Chuck Berry and forrest inspiring Elvis.
Marty inspiring Chuck Berry is just a silly offhand joke. "It'd be funny if he was inspired by his own music. 'Cause time travel funzies." It's on the same level of him saying he's Vader from the planet Vulcan. Forrest inspires one dance move that Elvis did. That's it. I say this cause your post has the air of "Hmmm... suspicious!", and diminishes the impact of ACTUAL racial issues when you bring them up. Making people think "Why should I bother paying attention to this issue, if they felt that other one was worth bringing up?"
I think the reason the movies is so susceptible to being coopted by conservatives is because it tells American history the way that conservative America would like to remember it, as a romanticized fairytale version. Conservatism often engages in self mythology and promises a return to an idealized version of the past that didn't really happen.
This is a very weird interpretation to me because 1. It very explicitly talks about segregation (though does not go into any meaningful detail). 2. Forrest goes to Vietnam, the war conservatives like to forget exists.
I saw "FG" at the theater in '94, and when I began to hear Republicans claim it as their own, I thought they were right...but not in the way they saw it. Forrest (like many conservatives in America) drifts through life observing and sometimes participating in the most pivotal moments of American history while being utterly oblivious to their importance and never reflecting on their consequences. Forrest falls ass-backwards into success with no discernible talent to speak of which would justify such success...again, as do many conservatives. He's a vapid, empty shell, devoid of substance or depth, incapable of grasping the gravity of events around him, coming to terms with them by citing insipid, obvious witticisms, imparted to him by his mother, which only the weakest mind would characterize as 'wisdom'. Yeah, 'FG' is every bit the conservative movie Pat Buchanan said it was, no question.
Well, it goes to show that you can live an a-political life in this county and it can still both legitimate and successful. The vast majority of Americans do this really, right up until election time,. Then, come March and the Primaries, they pretend to put on their "political thinking caps" in order to choose the the best candidates. But, as history tells it, it's truly heads-or-tails whether the U.S. ends up with the President it needs to get the job done, mostly because we vote as if it was a popularity race rather than as a supposedly serious contest between peers.
Great video. I enjoy learning about media analysis from people like you who can break it down and help me understand the message and executive decisions made to promote said message. Thanks.
Yet you could watch someone else break down this movie completely differently because she just took what she wanted to say and made it fit it. Notice how much of the movie she ignores?
The best takeaway from this video is that the film was not created the way it was to deliver a message or promote some kind of thought it was made for money. It was designed the way it was to make the absolute most money possible and it succeeded.
When you said the "empty headed" thing, I immediately answered "a fitting cultural idea for the era that gave us 'Who moved my cheese ?' in the 'self help-managerial' side of things".
I remember very little of the novel, Forrest Gump, but I did read it some years ago and to me the entire thing felt like an indictment of American culture, so far removed from the film. I'm glad that I wasn't entirely off.
I love movies that show a lot of periods in a character's life like this one and Benjamin Button. Being a history nerd, I've loved Forrest Gunp since I was a kid. Even tho it is so ridiculous and plays with history, I still find it charming.
Brave critic! I can only imagine how many people will feel about you criticizing a major piece of American infantilization. Great work! The more I watched it, the less harmless the movie seemed. I think calling it apolitical is deceptive, like not thinking of a scientist as part of the weapons development program just because they aren't testing out the guns themselves. It's an anti-political in the way an anti-matter dissolves matter upon contact. This movie dissolves politics in the now more maleable mind of the viewer, allowing the politics to breed freely within reality.
I always have a problem with this kind of approach to film analysis as it sidessteps considerations for a films actual quality, art and storytelling in favour of considering them as package boxes for "good" or "bad" ideology. as if good films have a prerequisite of being ideologically critical or left leaning and cannot be judged on their own merits
23:38 I really love this video and the research that went into it (I.e. reading the original novel), but I do disagree with this notion that Forest is characterised and made out to be, for all intensive purposes, a child. I personally understand him to still be a man. Granted, he’s a simple-minded man with a naïveté and innocence to him, but a man nonetheless. Forest proves he is able to be a medal of honour soldier, a successful business owner, international sports champion, a loving husband and father who can and does provide for both Jenny and Forest Jr, all by himself as well. Additionally, he not only knows what love is, but you can tell by the time he and Jenny are married, he’s matured and grown a lot to learn how love and life work. He’s attentive to his wife and son’s needs, and can instil values and foster the interests and talents of his son. Again, he’s a simple-minded man with a beautiful way of seeing the world, but he is a man nonetheless.
Also, I understand that the film could have had a more nuanced, complex look into the history it frequently references, but saying it’s “aged like milk” feels very cynical. This film is also incredibly popular among left-leaning audiences, and for good reason. In a day and age like this, there are so few films that can inspire such hope and optimism in the world as much as this film does. At least, it gives me a lot of hope. I’ll be honest. I have Autism, and for the longest time, I never wanted to have children because I worried I’d be a terrible father because of my disability, or worse, pass on my Autism. Luckily, it doesn’t work like that, but even if it did, that wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. Whether or not I were to have a child with a mental or physical disability doesn’t make them any less worthy of love or respect, and raising them would be the greatest honour I could be granted in my life. Anyway, I always worried I could never be a parent because of my Autism. Then, I watched this movie, and honest to God the relationship between Forest and Junior always makes me tear up at least. This film showed me that you can have a mental or physical disability, but that doesn’t make you lesser of a person or less worthy of being a parent; it’s all about having the right values, mindset, and help because parenting ideally is a collaborative process between the child, parent/a and others. So, this film is still beautiful to me, it’s a masterpiece, and now I can see myself being a parent one day and raising that child with the same compassion and hope I felt when watching this incredible film.
I'm glad to know more about the book version, it sounds really interesting and challenging, but I think movie gump will always hold a special place in my heart bc while it is important to have one's eyes open to problems around us and challenge our assumptions, sometimes you just want to watch something that feels simple and full of joy and seeing gump be kind to people and things just working themselves out around him gives me a spark of hope and gives me energy from the idea that the world can get better.
Forrest Gump is *NOT* a conservative film. While there are some negative portrayals of the hippie counterculture, it also criticizes Nixon, criticizes racism, and highlights the pointlessness of Vietnam. What I think happened is that media illiterate conservatives adopted the film as their own as the subtle satire went over their heads.
Hit the nail on the head. But, I will say that, perhaps a number of the media literate conservatives also adopted it was a bastion of conservative vales simply because that was narrative *they* wanted to tell. And, their conservative voter base ate it up because it gave them a good feeling to be "the good guys" again. It was win-win.
18:14 Forrest was never meant to have leg braces forever, they were supposed to correct his spine. (But yeah in general his physical disability isn't based on any real diagnosis)
I’m with you in loving the Polar Express! The puppet and hobo sequences are a little off putting but it never gave me nightmares and maybe it was just cus I was at that right age to be brave in the face of creepy things but I was still pretty young when it came out.
This is a banger video. I never thought of Forrest Gump like that, but you have incredibly good points in everything you said. Made me see the film differently, I'll have to watch it again to draw my own conclusions with what I know now!!
Forrest Gump uses events in history the same way modern movies use cameos. "Remember that?". Nothing interesting is said. Edit: just got to the pastiche part, and yeah that's a smarter way of explaining what I'm talking about.
@@wjglll340 sure, because I don't like one thing that is undeservingly held in high regard that means I hate everything that is held in high regard. I'm so next level...
My view on Forrest Gump forever changed when I thought about what disability Forrest has. After much deliberation, I realized that the implicit answer the film presents is autism. Forrest takes things too literally, he gets hyperfocused on tasks like ping pong, and most explicitly, he mimics the sound of the bed after his mother sleeps with the school official. That is echolalia, which is most commonly caused by autism. Immediately after this realization the film loses so much. It portrays autistic people in a deeply troubling way, as empty-minded puppets for whatever establishment can use their "savant" skills... yikes
I’m so sick of savant characters with an “unidentified mental disability” which is just autism with whatever quirks they want to add to the character. It’s not explicitly said to be autism so they can mishmash traits together and never have the character learn coping mechanisms. Instead it’s always the problem of the supporting characters to manage the main character. They’re often gullible with no real clue what’s going on around them and if they present a boundary it’s trod over for “their own good”. Film Forrest never questions, happily does as he’s told and goes along with life. He doesn’t really hold many strong opinions. Book Forrest is opinionated, aware and more human
This is the intellectual equivalent to rearranging letters in a sentence until you end up with “9/11 was an inside job”. It’s insisting on a reading or interpretation that your own biases prefer.
@@deathby1kslimes945 Mimicking a bed sound to embarrass someone can't be part of a serious diagnosis of autism. It's complete projection and a weak argument. The character has a low IQ near 70, that's what the film gives us. Ping Pong is something he's good at so he does it a lot. It's a hobby he continues to do with his son.
There's a book from 1993 called Hollywood vs. America by Michael Medved, standard American culture war stuff, that said that the success of Forrest Gump was due to its conservatism, whereas the failure of Star Trek V was down to its anti-god message.
I never realized Jenny died in the movie as I never made it that far. I honestly never got this movie, I always found it shallow and geared to just getting "Hey, he's with JFK" moments. Meh, whatever.
Is there an irony in the conservative movement gleefully claiming a man lacking mental faculties as the model american male? No? Just me seeing that ok...
I mean, it's not really ironic because what resonates with them is that he's slavishly devoted to values they adhere to. They don't claim him because of but in spite of his "shortcomings".
Is that the precise reason those individuals identify with him or have you taken a single facet of the character and decided that must be the precise reason? Also, may I ask why people like yourself write like this: "No? Just me seeing that ok..."? What the shit is with this form of communication?! It's like some weird sarcastic mimicry of a conversation with yourself. Stop it. It sounds so god damn stupid.
RIP Fredric Jameson!
@@BroeyDeschanel How dare we have a film about a man with a simple right or wrong complex. The fact that patriotism, not overthinking and being true to your values is considered propaganda. Even if it was conservative im sick and tired of people on the hating everything they disagree with and shame people for liking it. Most right leaning who are not on Washington or the internet watches movies with left leaning values and themes all the time. I love Forrest Gump cause it gives hope that the American Dream is possible and if you do the right thing and be true to who you are. We need to be more optamistic and true to our vales like Forrest. Maybe not as ignorant, but hpeful more then ever.
@@nicholasjoseph8297 transphobe
@@SteveoDeMayo i said nothing about transgenderism.
You're a real one for this, Broey. 🫡🥲
@nicholasjoseph8297 Do you think the world is just made up of a binary, "right" and "wrong"? Like, 'black and white', with no shades of grey?
Patriotism is dumb. I think that type of obedience is often learned at a young age, with the help of a fictional book - with stories that were made to appeal to barely (if at all) literate, goat herders. The book weaves a tail of a petty, genocidal, narcissistic, cruel "deity", that condones sl*very, in- cest, and female child gR* pe... who gives us ALL the 'free will' to accept him or not, (but if you choose 'wrong', you're doomed to an eternity of suffering!!! - but he totally love ya, and you ABSOLUTLY have a "choice"). "God bless the USA", right?
The people who've achieved and LIVED "The American Dream" did so off of the labor of other, NOT so lucky, humans.
People with REAL disabilities, US Vets, the marginalized, and the plain UNLUCKY fall by society's waist-side.
So long as the tr*nsphobic, sexisst, and racissst idiot, Elon Musk isn't awakened from his "American Dream", there will be those who'll be providing him with that lifestyle for SCRAPTS (compared to what Musk has). And so long as that stays the way it is, and all the wars and violence, I don't feel much of obligation to our country. Sorry. We don't live in a storybook. Please grow up.
Oh! And I LIKE Forrest Gump, generally. At least we aren't trying to ban it, like conservatives seem to enjoy doing to our poop.
Fun Fact: Forrest actually does have lines for his Vietnam speech, which according to IMDB were: "Sometimes when people go to Vietnam, they go home to their mommas without any legs. Sometimes they don't go home at all. That's a bad thing. That's all I have to say about that." Would have been better if they actually kept it.
I've also gone to /r/todayilearned.
For some reason I remember hearing him say that??? I wonder if maybe it was on any of the bonus content. Or maybe an interview. But the i definitely remember that quote.
I learned that from a UA-cam short
I hate this idea that the Vietnam war was bad because soldiers got hurt and died and not the damage it did to Vietnam and the Asian pacific. Vietnam was not a bad war because some soldiers lost their legs it was a bad war because millions of Vietnamese were killed and their homes destroyed. The fact that soldiers got hurt is irrelevant and why we have soldiers in the first place. So even if they kept the speech in it would have been meaningless and hollow and further the point this video demonstrates.
@@FrizzlemanI mean you are absolutely right, but sending kids to fight and lose their lives overseas isn’t justified either. At the time it makes sense for folks to feel this way because despite being completely indoctrinated into the American nationalistic idealism, they could atleast see the impact of these atrocities on their own family and friends affected by the war. Having our perspective now is a privilege of having the ability to freely gain knowledge about the reality of these wars..
It's ridiculous to imagine that you could make an apolitical film that is nothing but a best hits collection of post-war 20th century American history.
There's no such thing as an apolitical film.
@@pureevilfnord Indeed, and Forrest Gump isn't even close, it's incredibly explicitly political. Like the Vietnam War is probably the most important event the plot revolves around. It includes multiple Presidents, the Black Panthers and HIV/AIDS. There's few films more political.
@@pureevilfnordyes there is, there are endless examples. You or someone else applying your own political views to explain a film doesn't magically make it political
@@ianschmitt4991 All films are ideological, all ideologies exist in relation to politics, so all films are political.
@@sawyerstudio I'm sure a fuckin genius such as yourself can write a dissertation on the politics of Zardoz or Eraserhead. Once again numb nuts you applying whatever weird shit from your Brain onto a film doesn't magically make it true
Adapting a novel written by a Vietnam War veteran that is critical of the war into a patriotic celebration feels so messed up
Maybe I missed it, but how exactly is the films portrayal of the Vietnam War patriotic?
@@kaenachoo4783 it's not. I think folks think Forrest not saying anything explicitly about the war (he does it just gets interrupted by a Government Official but the scene implies it was impactful) means it's not saying anything but that misses A LOT.
@@kaenachoo4783 it conveniently ignores the mass bombing, napalming of civilians, agent orange, massacres committed by US forces but at the same time portrays the anti war movement extremely negatively.
@@bengallup9321 it doesn't. The only anti war person portrayed Negatively is Jenny's boyfriend.
@@bengallup9321you people are insane if you think that.
I could always related to Jenny, as I too went on a period of self loathing. I love that Forrest simply lets Jenny unleash her pain by throwing rocks at her abusive father's house, and doesn't judge or condemn her for it.
Right? I don't relate much to Jenny, but my mom does. She loves this character so much and it's not coincidental that she went through a lot of her same trauma. Back then, at least in popular cinema, you didn't see so many female characters this flawed, so I can't help but like her a lot.
I saw this movie as a child while I was being abused in the same way and I felt so close to her character. That rock scene was very cathartic for me.
@@angeljemmett9729 I’m sorry you had to go through that
@@nonesuchone Thank you my dear
If you relate to Jenny, seek help you sociopath
I’m glad you brought this up about the Black Panthers at 24:44 Cracked’s after hours video made a lot of good points about how most minority characters or characters who are made to confront injustice are reduced to angry suffering stereotypes. Characters who follow the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” way of thinking (and as you perfectly put it conformity) thrive and are successful.
Which is pretty true.
Dude, the vast majority white people are also stereotyped, if you'd care to notice. There's a bunch of racist bullies that pursue Forrest all though his childhood and they never learn to be tolerant; all the politicians are slick and camera-savvy; and the hippies are potrayed pretty much mindless followers of a ill-defined cause of "love and peace". I could go on, but that's the gist. Only a few of the many, many people in the film get a realist treatment.
Cause that's how they're seen through Forest's gaze. It's kind of interesting how they play out both the loving Mammy trope, magical negro/negro as side character, and the black man as violent trope all on the same movie.
I was a tween in the 90's and I know it was a different time but ooof, this did not age well.
@zucchinigreen yeah it would be better if blacks were not in our movies and they just made their own stories
@@zucchinigreen Yeah, its one of those flawed narrator things - but it feels better executed in the book as you can understand it as a product of Forest’s upbringing instead of a product of a script.
Lol they really did pack all those tropes in there! Yeesh!
As a kid I loved running, but had to stop because I was diagnosed with scoliosis. This resulted in P.E. teachers yelling at me and calling me lazy (and one literally finding my mom's phone number and leaving her an angry and kind of incoherent voice mail because I had the audacity to give him a doctor's note). It sucked, especially since running was a big stress reliever for me. So it always bothered the shit out of me that he just... character arcs his way out of his physical disability. Like having fucked up bones isn't society trying to hold you back, it's just having fucked up bones!! It doesn't matter how much you believe in yourself! Why did they give him a real disability if they were going to treat it with this magical realism?? The movie's already pretty removed from reality, they could have just made something up instead of talking about a real condition like this!
I literally haven't watched this video at all yet I'm just contractually obligated to bitch about this plot point every time this movie is brought up
I always interpreted that scene as indicating that the doctors simply got it wrong, using some 50s junk science to diagnose him with a disability he didn't actually have.
@@hoodiesticks Yes, I think you are right: the explicit narrative of the film suggests that positivity and simplicity can conquer all through "positive thinking" or a similarly vague notion. However, this can be detrimental to real people and the respectful treatment they deserve.
The TEXT of the film is about a medical mistake, but the SUBTEXT is about self reliance in the face of negative circumstances, or "lifting yourself up by your bootstraps."
Frequently, conservative politicians emphasize self-reliance to justify the unequal distribution of resources in society, attributing luck to hard work and determination and ignoring the massive amounts of fortunate circumstances behind success, and then they dismiss the need for alleviating severe misfortune by, for the most part, labeling it as laziness.
All excellent points.
This isn’t to say that the subtext of the film isn’t inherently ableist, feeding into the “pull you out by the bootstraps” narrative, the framing of it all could tell you that much. Forrest’s disability is still vague, unnamed, and at times inconsistent.
Dawg. Forrest teaches Elvis how to dance, runs across the US after being the world champion in ping pong and is a millionaire from owning *one* shrimp boat. This isn't meant to be realistic. And it's bloom effect makes it feel like you're watching a story (which you are). Media literacy on a media criticism channel is scaring me sometimes
I remember when I first watched Forrest Gump in high school, I enjoyed it, but was confused as to who it was made for. There are so many different ways to interpret both the character and the story of Forrest Gump. On one hand, you have an incompetent white male who fails upwards. On the other, a wholesome, pure-hearted guy who always does the right thing and gets rewarded for it. He both witnesses his friends experience a lot of systemic injustices, but also represents loyalty to his country. I couldn't tell if the movie was being critical or celebratory of the whole thing.
I choose to view it as critical. Maybe it’s just misplaced optimism i’m not sure.
Huh. Interesting thoughts. I suppose, if I were to put my overall thoughts about "what it all means", I'd say that it's a celebration of Gump as a simple, yet pure-hearted man, and the amazing life he leads. How many of us would devote ourselves so selflessly and purely to the well-being of our friends, family, and community, without almost any expectation of reward. I mean, granted Gump ends up with a lot of rewards, but he also shares his wealth and good fortune with everyone he cares about. We could all emulate a simple-hearted person like him in our lives.
@@meganhartmann180 I feel Gump getting rewarded is more so because he uses said reward to help others. What many of us would view as "the reward" is simply not "the reward" for Forrest it's merely another tool by which he moves trough life. All the "apple money" might as well be a lawn-mower to Forrest, because to him they mean the same thing/hold the same value, perhaps the mower even more.
One can say he's 'falling upwards' but all the good things that happen to him, is because he is willing to help others/hold his promise. Bubba Shrimp being an example, sure the Storm kind of made him a monopoly, but he was only in the position because he took Bubba's dying wish to heart.
I definitely think it’s some line in between a celebration and a critique. I think the movie is proud to be American, and embarrassed of its faults sorta thing. I think it’s trying to acknowledge the strange state the union was in at the time.
I guess incompetent technically fits, but it kinda carries the implication of personal fault
Maybe this is because I’m not American and younger than this film, but I always saw him as a metaphor for American culture? A mindless drone at the center of multiple incredible events, going through them with near 0 contemplation, calm to horrors everybody else suffers through. A parody of an American film protagonist, surrounded by hell.
You sound fun.
No I grew up in the US and always had the same interpretation. Everyone around Forrest is harmed or killed by American culture and jingoism, but he sees everything through the filter of nostalgia so he recounts it all as funny anecdotes and happy life events.
Also side note but a more deliberate use of this framing is in The Grand Budapest Hotel. The core story is distorted by so many layers of retelling that it has an extremely whimsical tone despite being an extremely grim plot.
But the movie never does anything to suggest it is being satirical.
@@raulruizdevelasco6215 really? Perhaps it's just more subtly satirical.
This is such a random reference, but I remember listening to the director's commentary for The Princess Bride and Rob Reiner being vey insistent that Robin Wright, and thereby Jenny, was the heart of Forrest Gump and that the movie wouldn't have worked without her while he was complimenting Wright's performance in his own film. And even as a kid, it made me realize that I never really watched Forrest Gump to see Forrest. I'd always connected to Jenny or to Lt. Dan.
I honestly never think about this movie anymore except when people on the internet decide to say awful things about Jenny. Not the writer's choices around Jenny, which are worthy of critique, but speaking on the character Jenny as if she's an evil harpy who strung Forrest along "for no reason." So I guess Rob Reiner was correct. The movie definitely wouldn't have worked for me even a little if it wasn't for Jenny.
Or Bubba.
Author might have wanted to paint the soldiers in Forrest's unit as nobly doing their job, but I can't help but see the death of Bubba and Lt. Dan's injury as emblematic of the horrors of war. And placing it in Vietnam makes it emphasize war's pointlessness.
How many people on both sides of that war died or were horribly wounded, and for what? What was accomplished? Were the outcomes of the lost war so bad that it was worth sending young men off to fight and die to try to prevent them?
Yeah I never understood why people on the Internet decided to turn against Jenny (or the film as a whole for that matter), she's really misunderstood, while I don't approve her actions, she, just like Forrest, were the consequence of their time.
I love Forrest as a character, but Lt. Dan has arguably the best character development in the whole film, or any film, also Gary Sinise has helped a lot of veterans, working on fundations and all that, he's a nice human being in real life.
My only question: How is that a "random" reference? Rob Reiner discussing forrest gump is random?
Jenny was a good example of the sad state of western women.
@@jesustovar2549he came to see my unit before we left for the sandbox. he apparently does that quite often. pretty cool
My dad always HATED this movie for pretty much the exact reasons you detail. He was also extremely contemptuous of Ronald Reagan, and more or less viewed Forrest Gump as an extension of the conservative “stupidity is good!” ethos that Reagan was such a big part of.
Former Defense Secretary Clark Clifford called Ronald Reagan "an amiable dunce" - he could've said the same thing about Forrest Gump.
Yeah well, yo mama so fat she put mayonnaise on aspirin.
Proudly ignorant seems to be the motto of conservative voters for at least 4 decades.
@russellharrell2747 You are such a smart special boy.
@@wjglll340
100+ comments lmao
I would argue that the film version of Forest's Vietnam speech is actually more pointent because, by having the military officer cut off the mic, it's actually showcasing the government's propaganda efforts and parodying that "pro-war" agenda. They can't let Forest speak the truth because they know the criticism is valid.
Forrest was a decent man because he wanted to serve. The war was a waste of time and a useless waste of life - in that sense the hippies were correct. But they were also scumbags who lowered the standard of behavior across the board and created a more vulgar and immature population.
I disagree, respectfully. because everything in this film is played straight, and we the audience don't actually hear what Forrest says, there's no actual acknowledgement of the atrocity of the Vietnam war. it would've been more poignant if the film were actually brave enough to have Forrest speak/shout a peace message into the crowd when his mic is cut off.
@@wallstotheball Because the film was not about criticizing the Vietnam War.
1000%
@@wallstotheballbecause it’s not like the world had at that point a good 40 years of knowledge about how vile the Vietnam war was or something 🙄
Movie Forrest Gump is the perfect baby boomer. Completely ignorant, golden hearted, rich, and unbelievably lucky.
true and based but WHY that profile picture 😭
Good point. It was a well made film perfect for the Zeitgeist of the time, but it didn't really age well on its philosophical and political points... as it seemed to me to suggest we have no collective agency and luck and feigned innocence, shrugging shoulders, and silence over dark events was the only choice. Although it ties "good liberal effects" of that goosy loosey philosophy on social issues like HIV, that were actually surprisingly progressive for the time..especially for a big Hollywood film..we all see where that has led us today when it comes to accepting economic and foreign policy changes...those things which have the greatest effects on most people. It's kind of cheap and easy and a kind of propaganda to tie them perversely together. The American people arn't simps...even if the elites try to paint us this way in "art", and the deep state treats us this way in "politics"...maybe to rationalize their own evil deeds that are bringing us to otherwise completely preventable economic collapse and WW3. We can do better, and we don't need to sleep our way into oblivion.
agree with everything you said except that most boomers aren’t “golden hearted”, they’re just assholes
@@zackbarkley7593your people's resolve to make things right is weaponized against you. the real issue stays in the collective blind spot while you're busy discussing issues of less relevance.
@@kaphizmey6229 It's more about posturing than it is about actually having a heart of gold. Having an onscreen heart of gold protag to "relate" to is their absolution.
Watching the heart of gold lose their innocence amidst senseless acts of violence is a part of this self-insert stoic arc. The HoG turned insular stoic is actually just an asshole doing war crimes and blaming victims for vague reasons. HoG becomes an unreflective spitting-mad drill sergeant seems to be the cycle. It's unsurprising that being exposed to harsh realities and coping with it by glorifying these events and their perpetrators creates an increasingly antisocial person.
I'm very protective of Jenny because she was an incredibly important character to me as a survivor. (I understand aspects of this movie are absolutely a product of the 90s, i agree on that overall)
Jenny showed a character that often wasn't shown in media at the time. She was a severely traumatized young woman who spent her life trying to avoid her pain. She was objectified and further abused by the various paths she took to avoid that pain but we watch her begin to stand up for herself. She told Forrest to run, and she took her own advice to try to run as well. She eventually realized she needed to stop running and come to peace with herself. While it's bullshit she was killed as so many women are in media, her life meant something and she reached peace by the end. Throughout her various traumas she was always kind to others, she never continued the cycle of abuse onto others and therefore her deep resilience was always present on screen.
Yaaaas. Her character should be held up as an icon of representation of a woman's lot in life -- to recover one's dignity and sense of self-worth in the face of prevalent misogyny and abuse, both by individual men and in the eyes of society. She is a strong survivor who took what little she was given and did the best she could. In its era, only perhaps the female characters in The Color Purple comparably demonstrated an unflinching look at female survivorship and resilience.
was she trying to avoid the pain or recreate it
@@Joe-sg9ll She was trying to avoid it and recreating it was inadvertent.
Very well said
@@Beatinit are wmen capable of advertent
Book Forrest sounds a lot more interesting than his movie counterpart.
I've read the book back in high school and can agree but it he is definitely a product of his time. A little bit more rough, a little more racist/ignorant of things but definitely "period accurate" in many ways.
I heard the book is really goofy
Imagine what, say, Alexander Payne could have done with Book-Forrest. But movies like Citizen Ruth and Election or "60s-'70s satires like Candy, The Magic Christian, Little Murders, and so on typically make about 1% of Forrest Gump's box office. Strangelove and Network, thoughtful satires that connect with a wide audience and make bank, are true unicorns.
He isn't
Wait,i had no idea it was from a novel
oh how good it is not to be american and seeing that forest gump is not liberal or conservative, its just very american (so yeah, conservative)
nah fam. america’s really cool. about as cool as coexist bumper stickers and universal healthcare. you can like all 3 simultaneously 😎😎
Very white American
@@EternityxForever this is a very american distinction
@@mohhie Not really, most places and cultures that are very diverse are like that. The dominant & oppressive culture or group of any place won't and can't speak for everyone that lives there. It's just that Americans (that don't benefit from said oppression) tend to be more vocal about that delineation.
@@mohhie This kind of comes across as "Only America is segregated by race", which I don't think is what you meant, but would be a very European thing to say. "Only America has been forced to acknowledge its segregation", maybe.
Anyways, the majority of Americans aren't conservative, we just don't live in a functioning democratic system nowadays.
Hmm this might be the best explanation I’ve heard of why people view it as a conservative film. That said, idk I still like the story of Jenny 🤷🏾♀️ I’ve always found her character to be a litmus test for misogyny because I just cannot wrap my mind around the “she’s a villain” folks. That take has always come off misogynistic.
I mean I saw it once in like 1996 but...
I love Jenny. She's a tragic figure who did some really cool shit and had an interesting(albeit sad) life. I would watch a movie from her pov
She's not necessarily the villain, but she's not a good person and Forrest deserved better than her.
@@CatotheE exactly, she’s not good or evil. Humans are way more complicated than that. She is a survivor of sexual abuse who did the best she could. Both of them deserved partners who could better support them with their challenges.
@@MrShikaga To be clear, it's not just that I think they deserved better. I think Forrest deserved better than a washed up, broken down, old, whore with HIV. I feel bad for her, being abused. But she made terrible choices and really didn't deserve to settle down with the tall, handsome, millionaire at the end.
The way Zemeckis talks -- tries to carry on a conversation -- in those clips explains why he would hate doing a movie that was all dialogue.
He sounds like he hasn't slept in 5 days and just chugged 2 energy drinks.
never been so uncharmed by a director. he just seems arrogant and nasty, and clearly has nothing valuable to say about his own work or America in general
This was a good reminder that American election cycles have always been a nightmare to live through.
Yes, and that the insanity is not new but carefully sown through the decades. You can see the prototypes of Trump types today, all throughout our past. It's not out of nowhere like American conservatives (and liberals for that matter!) have been groomed to believe
Not really. Most elections in US history have been boring and predictable. So more annoying than nightmarish, given that they never really stop.
As an adult who has gone through a lot, now I cant help loathing this movies message and politics: just go with the flow, the system works, never question anything, America is inherently good.
I still love Jenny as a character but she was done so dirty by this screenplay.
Beacuse what she goes through has some merit of a secular lifestyle with no purpouse as wrong. She friendzones Forrest for one she sees him as a child, an escapism buddy and 2 she was afraid of seeing the world more simple.
How dare we have a film about a man with a simple right or wrong complex. The fact that patriotism, not overthinking and being true to your values is considered propaganda. Even if it was conservative im sick and tired of people on the hating everything they disagree with and shame people for liking it. Most right leaning who are not on Washington or the internet watches movies with left leaning values and themes all the time. I love Forrest Gump cause it gives hope that the American Dream is possible and if you do the right thing and be true to who you are. We need to be more optamistic and true to our vales like Forrest. Maybe not as ignorant, but hpeful more then ever.
@@nicholasjoseph8297yeah Forest Gump is not inherently one side or the other politically, he's just a sweet person going through life...
@@anthonymartensen3164Big difference between the character being conservative and the movie being conservative.
@nicholasjoseph8297But they also complain when watching left leaning media. Whenever they see too many poc, gay ppl, feminist messaging, "woke", etc.
As an autistic (disabled) person, it especially stings that people just overcome their disabilities in the movie and are reintegrated into "normalcy". Society as it was back then, and as it is now is hostile to disabled people, we pay a huge price for successful integration into it. Either literally (certain disability aids) or by needing to spend immense energy to work/socialize and then being bedbound for days afterwards from pain and/or exhaustion. If we can at all.
Agreed. The film unapologetically embraces ableist tropes, and it seems like most people’s (especially most non-disabled people’s) view of it is frozen in time. If the movie were released today, people would be outraged, but, through the lens of nostalgia, they can’t see how problematic it is.
As someone diagnosed with Asperger' Syndrome and has seen this movie houndreads of times, I can understand what you say about adapting to a normal society (heck, The Incredibles tackles into this subject very well), but honestly I see Forrest' story as one of highs and lows, but pretty much succeeding in life, is interesting to see 20th Century American History through the lens of someone who is possibly within the autistic spectrum and dosen't understand much about some things, which might be one of the most realistic parts of the movie.
Dude, not a lot has really changed. But, as someone who is also on the spectrum of autism, let me just say after living through the 90s I can tell you it still sucked. Back then as it is now there's not much funding for people with disabilities and people online cannot stop using autism as either an insult or use it as some kind of strange flex for bragging rights... The condescension and ableism is enough to make you sick.
There needs to be less of a message of people with disabilities needing to try to constantly fix themselves to fit into an ableist society.
This is why Punch Drunk Love, unintentional and vague as it may be, is still the best Hollywood film about an autistic character. It treats that character with empathy.
Except it's not true. Forrest's mother has to use sex in order to obtain the "normalcy" of Forrest going to a public school. That's not "just" overcoming disability, it's exploitation.
Bubba is on a similar intelligence level to Forrest. He was drafted and dies in Vietnam. There is no normalcy to that. The government took advantage of someone with low cognitive abilities to use as just another body in a pointless war.
Lieutenant Dan's personal struggle is more than just losing his legs. It's losing his faith in religion and the government. He doesn't integrate easily even with the help of veteran support groups or disability checks. He's depressed and goes to his only friend to have a spiritual fight with God during a storm where he reaches some inner peace. The film already showed how he was beaten by society so why it would it revert back to it after his arc?
Forrest simply doesn't care about larger ideas. He probably doesn't think of himself as disabled. He's not autistic. He has an IQ near 70. It's not a movie's responsibility to show every kind of experience with intellectually disabled characters. It's telling its own story using a character with a low IQ who still knows right from wrong and follows his own moral system through decades of history.
I find some of these issues are also found in Back to the Future, just less so . This makes me think that if it was an accident, it was from subconscious bias
To be fair, we all have sub conscience biases.
People forget Back to the Future is a sci-fi comedy (just like Ghostbusters), viewrrs are too busy thinking about all time travel stuff, pranks and funny moment, so you can enjoy it without without worrying about political biases, because the films are nout about that, just enjoy the ride (like my mother did years ago in Universal).
And remember: "your future hasn't been written yet, no one has, your future is whatever you make it, so make it a good one" - Emmet Brown
Although, while Back to the Future does indulge in both 1950s nostalgia and 1980s materialism, there is a level of...deconstruction to it, I guess?
Like at first portraying 1950s in a positive light but then showing how a sexist asshole like Biff is able to push people around (and even tries to assault Lorraine) and get away with it. Then in the alternate-timeline 1985 in Part II, it's practically a conservative paradise what with Biff, a Trump-inspired businessman, basically ruling the country, unregulated chemical plants and factories being allowed to pollute without consequence, a newspaper saying that Nixon was reelected to his fifth term as President, etc.
Although I suppose that part might be Bob Gale's doing rather than Zemeckis lol
@@jesustovar2549 sooner or later though, the ride breaks down.
@@RobGaloNot for me, wasn't even born back then, I don't care about those politics, I don't live in the US anyway.
"How was it that a film so beloved by the generally-liberal Hollywood elites... came to be so gleefully embraced by the far right?"
... because the generally-liberal Hollywood elites are actually pretty darn conservative? Liberal ≠ Left. The US Democratic Party are NOT Leftists! And we may separate "Liberals" from "Conservatives" in US politics, but in a capitalist Liberal Democracy like the USA, Liberalism IS a conservative ideology. I appreciate that there's a huge space of political difference between Conservative Republicans like Pat Buchanan and Liberal Democrats like Aaron Sorkin when it comes to a relatively small number of publicly-debated issues such as abortion rights and the separation of Church & State, but they're both broadly in favor of preserving the current US-centric, capitalist, imperialist, etc. etc. world order. "Hollywood elites" may not generally be "big C" Conservative in the sense of endorsing "traditional Christian family values" or supporting Republicans - aside from Zach Snyder, Mel Gibson, Michael Bay, Charlton Heston, Clint Eastwood... actually, there are quite a few prominent Conservatives in Hollywood! However, at a more fundamental level, Hollywood - both in the 90's and generally - generally makes movies which broadly endorse conservative Liberal values (that's "small c conservative" and "big L" Liberal): capitalism, consumerism, individualism, reformism/gradualism/legalism, US nationalism, patriarchy, violence as a tool of social preservation, veneration of the police & military, etc. Even Hollywood movies that offer social or political critiques tend to focus on individual changes ("get the bad guy out") or surface-level reforms rather than ever even considering systemic change as an option. Forrest Gump is a well-meaning individual man who navigates a corrupt and confusing world successfully and touches many people's lives positively, while simply taking the underlying structure of society as a given - and that's a staple trope of BOTH Liberal and Conservative worldviews. (As Broey explains in economic terms much better than I could during the "Problem with Popular Filmmaking" section of this video, starting at 30:27.)
Damn straight! Jenny represents the left, which is why she is seen the anti-war protestors and the black panthers that are shown to be violent thugs. Forrest Gump is the moderate the centre thats why he has many conservative values but also is colourblind when seggregation comes up. Like you said conservative Liberal.
yeah I don't think it was purely a marketing or "money" decision either, i think a great deal of ideology slipped through the film, not to make it appealing to a wider public, but revealing the biases of the filmmakers around subjects of oppression and integration, as well as stereotypical portrayals of hippie culture as a shorthand for degeneracy and evil
Thank you for this comment. I'm sure many of us who are not from the USA will be a little perplexed by the questions raised in this video.
The fact Forrest is not depicted killing anybody is just ridiculous, he's a solider, who's job is killing his country perceived enemies, the act of not depicting war as it bare minimum of ppl killing each other, is just... absurd,PERPLEXING, I am baffled, confounded even
Like bro what is this,military propaganda?!
I gone and watch the battle scene and the depiction of the battlefield is so nebulous, distant even
this is true but I dont think zack snyder is a conservative, I think his movies are just kinda dumb and also adapt frank miller comics, but his personal politivs dont seem to lean very conservative. However I do understand ur point+why hes here bc his movies being successful shows that conservatism regardless of its intentionality is not a powerless force in hollywood and in fact can be a massive moneymaker
I've never seen Forrest Gump as a conservative film. Quite the opposite in fact. I've always viewed the character of Forrest as a metaphor for America and Americans in general; mindlessly walking through history not knowing or understanding what is going on around them, but going along with it anyway. This is reflected by the fact that the movie is seen through his eyes and not that of an observer who gives context, so when he comes across rights activism, for example, all he sees is what's in front of him and not the reasons behind it. When he goes to war, he doesn't question why, he just goes along and does what he's told. We aren't told in the movie the background behind these events, we're supposed to know already. This is a criticism of Americanism, not a celebration of it. The fact that conservatives latched on to the movie and claimed it as their own, should ring alarm bells for anyone who watched it, to praise the unquestioned and uneducated and support those who just do what they're told. The fact that they latched on to it is also an unintentional criticism of them, as conservatives typically don't have a good eye for metaphor, allegory or art. They prefer to be spoon-fed surface-level information and meaning, not layered and complex meaning that requires background knowledge.
It is conservative insofar as it blatantly rewrites American history to put all blame on women, leftists and Black people.
this is a REALLYY good interpretation. i can only disagree on the fact that i dont believe this message was the directors/writers intent. i think youre just insanely big brained intellegent and give their writinf more credit than its due. brillian interpretation though fr god.
@dazey8706 I don't think it matters what the writer or directors intent is
@@Theyungcity23I don't think it matters what someone besides the writer or director's intent is
This reading doesn't account for the fact that Forrest is rewarded in life for just going along with things. Jenny and Lt.Dan are the victims of American history in the movie, they have suffered on its behalf, and the only time they find peace is when they take on Forrest's perspective and conform. The movie is saying that's a good thing and at no point legitimizes any criticisms of the system, instead it implies that it will all work itself out with or without anyone struggling against it. It is a very American minded film in that way, but it's definitely not some secret political satire.
I never thought about the conservative undertones in Back to the Future. I can understand tho how much easier it is to critique Forest instead bc it has less pop culture impact imo than Back to the Future.
Idk about less impact. Back to the Future is pretty damn popular and constantly in rotation even amongst younger people. Probably even more than Forrest Gump. I think really it's just the sci-fi elements and it being much more broadly a comedy makes it easier for people to swallow whatever conservative Reaganite ideologies it has going on.
@@AlexThe1Menace your right I meant Forest Gump being less popular.
@@bomberbcm ah ok that makes sense. All good lol but you're right too
The sequels do a lot to redeem BttF, adding self-awareness and irony, as well as a less shockingly pro-consumerist moral message. I think that makes a big difference in their enduring appeal. The first one by itself is dated and socially alien in a startling way, but being recontextualised by the second and third one helps us see it in a more charitable light.
@@AlexThe1MenaceForrest is pretty dang popular, even 30 years later, yeah it is true that Back to the Future might had a broader appeal, especially to geeks, because of the reasons you say, it's a sci-fi comedy, just like Ghostbusters.
Coincidentally, the BTTF trilogy and Forrest are some of my favorite and most rewatched films, so I owe a lot to Zemeckis.
the whole jenny part always felt a bit weird to me. like she goes through so much, almost like an object on which you put all of your cruelty. she seemed so absurd to me that it seemed like a satire on the conservative ideas of women, where women are seen as dumb objects who don't know the "good path" by themselves, they are attracted towards liberal ideas, which destroys them and in the end, it is actually an "empty headed" conservative man through whom she becomes "better". and well, she will be punished for her "sins".
the amount of bad things that happen to jenny are so absurd that if you put her in dark comedy, you have a really good satire on conservative ideas of women.
An abused child that finds herself in the same scenarios as an adult… yup that actually scans.
@Sanger2007 The treatment of Jenny and the film “bros” fans are what turned me so against the films, including the idea that if a man likes you and you don’t like him back, you are a “bad woman “.
Because the film takes almost nothing seriously, Jenny is “over sensitive “ for reacting to things that happen to and around her.
My thoughts exactly!
Not... really? The character made sense, she was clearly suffering from trauma, the problem is most of her development happens offscreen. There's an interesting arc buried in there but it isn't really shown onscreen. We just see her hopping from one problem to the next, until she realizes her mistakes offscreen
@@officialmonarchmusic so it was omitted instead of incorporating it artfully into the storyline and the only character of real interest…? that was a creative decision that paid off 😬
Now that you have described the film, I feel that "Millennium Actress" did a much better job at exploring the complicated history of Japan through the very specific perspective of one woman. What I adore about that film is that it is very romantic and optimistic in nature but it also does show how Imperial Japan has also been responsible for taking away the love of her life and in aknowledging that much of this fantastical portrayal of her history is ultimately her own perspective of her journey and that she tries to find inspiration in which she herself has been able to overcome in her life to be such an admirable figure and that she cannot regret taking on her choices. The love of her life isn’t simply there to be a symbol of loging for the past but also a representation of her passion and what she has currently become as a woman and a person.
Yesssss im so happy someone mentioned Millenium Actress
...does it actually show the evils of imperial japan? it shows the bombing of japan by america, and how it harmed japanese people, but it doesnt explain what chiyoko's love interest was doing in manchuria, the horrors of the concentration camps japan ran there. that film does the same thing forrest gump does, "the real victims of the vietnam war are the american conscripts and no one else" "the real victims of imperial japan are japanese people, and no one else"
Maybe it's because I'm not American, but I think there's still satire in the film, only it's not focused only on Forrest but the US.
Like how Forrest had an IQ below average, and yet he graduated college (by only paying football), was called a genius in the army, and got to meet various presidents, or also how he became a millionaire not despite, but because he was "not a smart man", reaching middle age with total economic security.
The US comes off as a bizarre country where any idiot can "make it", and I thought that was an exaggeration, but, uh, you had Trump as president, so...?
Its difficult to enjoy satire when its satirizing a myth, I think? Like I totally see what you're saying. But I also can't ignore how the american dream doesn't really work. We talk about it, but our examples, such as trump, had the so called small loan of a million dollars. But being American definitely impacts my feelings here.
I'm from the US I see it the same way. I always understood the movie as Forrest lucking into situations and his character is what made him so unusual/memorable. Like the Watergate incident and him reporting it, or him meeting Elvis and teaching him the dance moves, it wasn't him doing anything spectacular, was just the right place and the right time.
I don't think I've ever seen this movie as a way of celebrating conservative values and I still don't.
I think you're missing the way America works here. Forrest Gump was not "any idiot." Forrest Gump was a tall, good-looking, white male idiot who was good a sports. He had a ton of advantages, just not intelligence.
I came into the comments to point out the same thing. I always felt like the film was more a criticism of American culture and ‘The American Dream’ by suggesting that the only way to be happy in America is not to have a view point or to think critically about the history and culture. Those who do think more deeply seem to suffer. And then saying that any idiot could become successful, being down to pure luck alone.
This perspective also makes sense, which would make it more ironic for conservatives to co-opt its messaging. But the last point 32:58 makes the films satire fall a bit flat
You listed a couple instances where Forrest was showing emotion to the events happening around him. Unless I missed it, you do realize the reason he ran for three years, two months, 14 days, and 16 hours, is because of the pain he felt when Jenny left him? He spent that entire time trying to run away from his, cough, emotions. "My mama always said you've got to put the past behind you before you can move on, and I think that's what my running was all about."
It's more than he gets over it too fast.
@@steamboatwill3.367
He runs for years
These Internet reviewers don’t actually watch forest gump. They just use their eyeballs to hunt for ideology.
The 'picaresque' novel was born and bread in Spain 🇪🇸 the term was coined in the 16th century with the publication of the great novel: El lazarillo de Tormes (anonymous) and then it quickly spread across Europe.
12:00 listen the polar express is goated, i stand with you on this one and will fight anyone who doesn't
When Zemeckis says he is a fan of history, an amateur historian, I can't help but get the sense that what he means is he's a fan of spectacle - which...isn't as interesting. I'd suggest most people are. And, as you say, when you do a historical study through a spectacular, uncritical gaze you produce nostalgia.
He's a fan of history as a story of big, important people doing big, grandiose deeds, which is how history has been taught in America and what a lot of conservative white guys think history is.
27:00 I don't see Dan getting his life back that way at all. Its not told as "hes happy because he's conformed". Its just that he's found a purpose in life beyond dying like his ancestors in war.
This
He's marrying an asían woman, like he dosen't have predjudices against his past anymore, I don't see how this could be seen as wrong in today's world of inclusivity.
Thank you! You nailed it. And also, this part of the story is true to history. Many Vietnam vets married wives whom they'd met in Asia or in the States after they'd emigrated to a new home away from the war-torn region. In this case, Dan's wife is probably second-generation Asian-American. But, if anything, Dan's new lease on life with a spouse of Asian descent also speaks to the growing multi-cultural nature of American marriages starting in the 1960's and 70's.
Lieutenant Dan's years as an impoverished disabled veteran also contradict the claim that the movie has some sort of agenda to show that reward is given to those deserving, and this fits with the conservative vision of America. Lt Dan is a more competent person than Forrest, he's a true believer in dying for America, as opposed to Forrest who just does what he's told, and yet he is the one who suffers.
Sorry buddy. You need another feminist/marxist struggle session to shed yourself from your bourgeois thinking.
A minor quibble...vietnam was not an "utterly pointless war". its point was to reinforce american imperial hegemony and empower and further cement the success and dominion of the military industrial complex. it was extremely successful. it extracted untold wealth from the masses to the rulership, and it served an important social role to assert consent from the mainstream in order to normalize this same behavior in the future to the point where now we got a minion in west asia just running rampant with daddy's resources.
and also any thinking person knows they did jenny so dirty omg.
That’s all very true but it is important to remember that the reasons individuals fight (or choose not to) in wars are often very different from the reasons nations fight in the same wars. You fairly characterize the national reason to fight but many individuals in it or in the society at that time saw it as pointless. They didn’t benefit from it. They often didn’t care about any of that. It was, from the standpoint of their individual lives, completely pointless. Very few Americans benefited from the national reason and many more than actually fought were actively harmed by it and still are today by the continuation of those same goals, both in and separate from other wars. The exact same thing can be said about many wars in many countries. National goals simply don’t align with individual needs in most wars. So yeah, from a certain viewpoint, you’re right, but it is more complicated than that.
I didn't watch Death Becomes Her until a couple months ago; it was fantastic but felt very ironic that Robert Zemeckis made a movie about resisting the temptation to extend your career by becoming a plastic abomination, and now he's turned his career into making plastic abominations.
Prophecy
A new Broey Deschanel Video? About a movie ive seen? Hell Yeah!
Forest Gump the character is unquestioning, unintelligent, pure and does whatever the government tells him to do. He is rewarded for this by becoming incredibly rich and eventually getting the girl of his dreams. Jenny Curran takes drugs, has pre-marital sex and questions the government and the Vietnam war. For this she will be unhappy, suicidal and eventually die of AIDS. That is what I remember about the movie when I saw it all those years ago in the cinema.
I think Robert Zemeckis is a fantastic director, but "Forest gump" is just a very well made bad movie.
It's Francis Fukiyama's End of History,The Movie.
Great metaphor.
I like the point, but Fukiyama at least admits that there was Historical ideological conflict during the period FG depicts... FG is more "there never was any history"
as an og forrest gump hater, it was definitely the way he didn't seem to have a perspective or feelings or inferiority that turned me off. it's such a messed up way to present an intellectually disabled character, and i think the fact he was changed in such a way by itself speaks to a certain amount of conservative ideology
D-bag
If Forrest had pushed feminist/marxist critique you would be fine with his portrayal.
@@wjglll340no we wouldn’t lmao
Idk
Forest Gump won Best picture over Pulp Fiction & Shawshank Redemption that year?! That alone is criminal
No. Pulp Fiction was dated 5 minutes after release.
@@dandylandpuffplaysminecraf8744 I am not the biggest Tarantino fan but even I would have to disagree with what you said, Pulp Fiction was extremely influential when it came out and it still is, whether you like it or not is left to your opinion but it is not dated
Unfortunately, this is world of 20/20 rewind vision. I guess I would say that all three were worthy of Best Picture -- Forrest Gump likely appealed to the widest array of Oscar voters, so it got top prize. But, each was worthy in it's own way.
I love forest gump but Shawshank should’ve won
It’s a movie that makes conservatives feel good about their conservative values. There is plenty of suffering depicted in the movie, but none of it stems from systemic oppression or systems that serve only to benefit certain classes protected by conservatism (the way it is in the real world). Rather, suffering is just a thing that happens indiscriminately and at the universe’s whim. The primary female and Black characters endure an ungodly amount of suffering, but it isn’t at the hands of Forrest-if anything, he’s the only bright spot in their miserable, pathetic lives before they die tastefully and young, their purposes fulfilled. It’s really very good propaganda, because it doesn’t ever feel like it’s pushing a message on you. It just feels like it’s trying to give you the warm fuzzies by watching this affable, dim-witted man succeed. But that’s what makes it so sinister.
That said, I could never blame anyone for feeling sentimental and nostalgic about this movie. I’m sure I’m not the only one with parents who claim it as a favorite and know every line. I know I’m not alone in having been quoted “I’m not a smart man, but I know what love is,” and “Life is like a box of chocolates-you never know what you’re gonna get” from so early on in childhood that I hadn’t even seen the movie yet. For me, Forrest Gump falls into the same category as most copaganda: at the end of the day, it is depicting something that doesn’t exist. The world as it’s being portrayed in this media is a fantasy. As long as you stay abreast of that fact and engage your critical thinking while you consume it, there’s nothing wrong with enjoying it or holding positive associations with certain aspects of it.
Sometimes people suffer indiscriminately at the universe's whim. It's okay to portray that.
I feel as if you nailed exactly why I never had/have an interest in seeing this film.
Also really shows how little many of them think about things,
they don't ask (in context of the film):
- why were black people not allowed in the same places as white people?
- why did we send troops to Vietnam?
- why are people rejecting our way of life?
Granted, the film didn't ask either
this is absurd. Did you miss the scene showing Bubba's family going back generations? Was that not "systemic"? How about the education system and its treatment of Forrest? Not systemic? Did Bubba's family have a brief miserable pathetic life after being made rich by Forrest? It goes on and on.
You resent the idea of a "good America" that's slightly hinted at in the movie, and so you see what you want to see. Just like how you resent seeing "good cops". So in your mind, it morphs into having "ummm, an actually evil message you guys...." You're not "engaging your critical thinking", you're seeing the world (and this film) thru the lenses of your own biases, angry it doesn't align perfectly.
@@Dare5358 ) are you not talking about the cons who see the film as "all American"?
This was a truly an excpetional video and a fascinating point of view through which to consider this film. One that never occured to me and it was a thrilling watch. The means with which you've structured this video coupled with the numerous citations from the novel speak to the level of thought, care and work you've put into this. Amazing work and thank you!
100% earned a new subscriber with this.
I had a brace on my leg during my childhood and I got made fun of A LOT by other kids with references to Forrest Gump, so I could never emotionally latch onto the way my peers did. Also, the Black Panthers scene doesn't sit well with me.
It’s definitely a different experience as a POC. It’s implied that Forest was the inspiration for most of the things African Americans were responsible for and implied he’s better at doing Chinese things too. And that’s not even getting into the depictions of the Black Panthers and the Vietnamese. Physical disabilities are treated like a mild inconvenience and I think without Tom Hank’s admittedly endearing performance the mental disability of the main character would fair just as poorly because it centralized the idea that a mediocre white man can fall into success using the ideas of a black man better than he could. Which again wouldn’t have been as much of a noticeable theme if Bubba hadn’t been cast as black and the undermining of minorities didn’t consistently happen. (Elvis’s dancing inspiration, ending desegregation, him stopping the watergate burglary etc. it’s not lost on me the bench listener to his name origin is a black woman, and that his kid continues that name despite it’s origins) Funny enough his running scene is harder to place in its historic context. There was the first 100 miles endurance race won by Andy Gonzales that year, but what gets me is that’s the very year the 504 sit I for disability rights was held in 1977 which seems like a more relevant historic event to the character. While the character movie Forest isn’t exactly a racist one, unlike in the book, the way the events in the background are portrayed certainly are.
I cannot speak to your very personal experience with having a leg brace while growing up, but I think I can shed some light on why the Black Panthers were portrayed the way they were in the film. Consider the times in which the film itself was made -- the 1990s. Compared with today, the 90's were less than a generation away from the end of the Black Panther Movement. As such, the national conversation about the significance of the Movement was not as advanced or nuanced as it is today. Meaning, the vast majority of Americans still did not believe that a more militant political movement could a be an appropriate avenue to achieve greater racial equality -- that recognition did not really come until Twitter and the Black Lives Matter Movement, twenty years in the future.. So, yes. The portrayal of the Black Panthers may seem a bit "off" or dated to us today, but for the 1990's it was of its time. -- On the other hand, I thought the way the movie portrays Jenny's boyfriend as a wannabe Panther who doesn't really get the cause or even believe in it beyond the surface level (cuz he's a clueless jerk) is absolutely spot on. That is such a great statement about the (generally) white liberals who say they're for a cause, but their support is really a sham because they want to leverage what the cause stands for so that they can feel good about themselves, or whatever.
@@meganhartmann180 Civilized people still don't think that violence is an appropriate manner of protest, or that it accomplishes anything. The non-violent tactics of MLK in the 60s accomplished a lot. The Black Panther movement of the 70s didn't accomplish anything but ingraining the image of black people as violent thugs in the eyes of many white people.
@@ookamiblade6318 Ping Pong/table tennis was created by an Englishman in the 19th century. Do you just assume that because Chinese are famous for ping pong that it's "their" thing? Ping-pong diplomacy was a real event.
"Most of the things." It was one thing and it isn't some simple history that Elvis "stole" his dance move of shaking his hips from black artists. Are we saying black people are responsible for shaking legs and hips in the way Elvis did? It's an uncomplicated way of dancing that other cultures do too.
You're completely wrong that physical disabilities are treated as a mild inconvenience. Lieutenant Dan is an alcoholic and depressed and it shows how he struggles with mobility, especially when it's icy. He has to create a system to maneuver around the boat, but he makes it his own space and he gains agency from it.
I don't know how you can come away from the film and think that Forrest is mediocre. It's not there in the narrative and it's against the ethos of the film. People are capable of great things. We shouldn't judge people by what's shown on the surface.
He didn't use a black man's ideas better than he could. Bubba didn't have the money to start a shrimp business himself. He was drafted before he could do anything. Forrest got lucky with shrimping when every other boat in the harbor was destroyed in a storm.
Depiction is not endorsement. The film showing how the black population was treated is obviously showing that it wasn't okay. The desegregation scene is showing how Forrest doesn't follow the mob mentality and does the right thing. He isn't taking any credit for desegregation.
Nixon is the one who set Forrest up in the hotel. It's satirically showing that he caused his own downfall in more than one way.
You exaggerate and misrepresent what happens in the background. If you're going into something with negativity, you're going to find it, but it's a reflection of you, not the film.
@@nightlurker4605 you assumed I was talking about the ping pong exclusively, and while I do think the fact that China was promoting ‘friendship first competition second’ and the athletes were specifically instructed by Mao to ‘not to win every match’ is an omission that is a big contextual change that gives the scene a political slant. The fact that an American athlete got close enough to a world leader in a medical crisis or at any time during the visit also implies all sorts of incompetence on the part of the Chinese leading to the impression that white men do it better. Side note, you know who played a role in getting ping pong diplomacy to happen, the Black Panther Party another side lining of a major accomplishment.
Elvis did in fact steal his dance moves and whole songs outright from black artists so implying he could have gotten it anywhere is making excuses. You can say he was ‘inspired’ by them, but he rarely gave them credit. It was legit argued that Hound Dog wasn’t a ‘cover since listeners were innocent of Willie Mae Thornton’s original 1953 release’ she sold copies of her release for just 500$ despite it being written for her. The artists he let ride his coat tails were mildly favorable to him because they admit he had talent, the artist he profited off of were much less favorable, but there is no denying that his legacy is rooted in taking song and dance from black folk and making it white enough to be popular.
I’m sorry disability was inspiration p@r and mild inconveniences. Those childhood leg braces, mild inconveniences they literally burst off mid imitation of a lyn@hing. The war veteran, double amputee, see look how accomplished he is. His alcoholism and depression wasn’t even from his amputations, just that he didn’t die as he expected to. He got a rich friend to pay for accommodations and his life was great and purposeful. That’s inspiration p@rn 101.
The fact that you don’t see how taking Bubba’s idea and making it successful isn’t a rehash of how racism works is wild to me, (but then again you missed Elvis, I’m sure you missed Eminem, who usually gets a pass on this because at least he admits to it, John Wayne, the Kardashians, to white tic tok dancers who take choreography from black creators and make more money than the original, etc) sure Bubba didn’t have the money to make it successful, now why might that be?
Depiction may not be endorsements, but framing is.
It was in fact a black man who interrupted the Watergate break in. His absence is a choice.
The manipulation of historical events is happening, but not by me. I’m just saying the framing is deeply uncomfortable for someone who is Chinese, Black and disabled to watch this film especially if you’re aware of history and not blinded by American exceptionalism.
The point of the film becoming part of the American memory of these events is pretty interesting. This reminds me of how John Reed's account of the October Revolution in Ten Day That Shook the World became for many Russian revolutionaries the definitive account of the events. They would start referencing the book as if it was their memory.
I seem to remember learning that as a character back story, the narrator of Fight Club unironically loves the movie Forrest Gump.
Which is just so perfect.
In the film, at least, Tyler does shout "Run, Forrest, Run!" at the guy who wanted to be a vet but worked in a store. Which would make sense since...
...he and the narrator are the same person.
@@blutroyale8072 Yeah. I know. I’ve seen the movie, read the novel, and have a fight club meme group.
But thanks for telling me what happens in a movie that I brought up.
@@Oryx7000?????
I think there are major flaws in this essay. This film heavily utilises the technique of "Dramatic Irony", which is where the audience knows more than the characters in the text, Forrest is also an unreliable narrator as an extension of this. The essayist selectively quotes Forrest on speaking about his name sake, in that he goes on to explain that his mama gives him that name as a reminder that "sometimes people do things that don't make no sense", but the essayist doesn't include that part of his quote, which is the commentary on the confederacy and its legacy, and as such is a commentary on conservatism.
Forrest doesn't understand Jenny's background and her trauma, but we can. And because we can, we can have empathy for her: that is if we have the personal framework to feel empathy for her.
Forrest doesn't see the army guy pull the mic jack silencing Forrest from speaking, but we do. The camera's eye showing us that part of the reality of that moment, is commentary on the way "the establishment" wanted to skew and silence the reality of what happened in the war.
We don't need Forrest to tell us the American war in Vietnam was brutal and traumatic, we can see it.
Lieutenant Dan doesn't throw off the counter culture and get absorbed into a more traditional way of life. He was a true believer in the military, and starts drinking and taking drugs as a way to self medicate after what he views as being denied his legacy. His long hair wasn't a reflection of hippie values, any more than Forrest's was when his hair grew out during his running. Their hair choices, unlike the hippies, is not about rebelling against the status quo, its about letting themselves go as they try and process their trauma. Forrest doesn't feel nothing or remain unaffected by his life experiences, he runs for years literally because Jenny leaves him after they sleep together. He literally runs away from his problems for years.
Clearly where Pat Buchanan and other conservatives of the time (and the essayist here,) make mistakes about the film, is that they are playing an extreme version of death of the author, and projecting their own point of view onto the film, rather than looking at the actual choices and therefore the statements the film is making.
Well said.
You are projecting your own point of view.
@@wjglll340 can you point to examples that I've said that aren't based in the reality of the film?
@@storytimeforgrowndups6052 ignore it, it's a troll rage posting bad bait in reply to every comment. 😂
@@mintkit1064 ah, thanks for the heads up
You've crossed the threshold to that space where a new Z.D. video drop will set the tone for my whole day feeling better. I love your insights, I love your work.
I found Forest Gump to be the opposite of what Little Big Man was despite both stories basically mirroring each other. LBM was a humanization of indigenous people through the western genre lens. Dustin Hoffman's character bounces through those tumultuous times witnessing cruelty, broken treatise, and slaughter, all while having the best biting sense of humor. But it held truth close by its side. Gump on the other hand always felt like some self aggrandizing boomer wet dream.
Whenever I go for a jog near my area, someone always inevitably shouts "Run, Forrest, Run!", just to be funny.
some teenagers shouted that at me when I was 12
Honestly I'm sick of hearing it at this point 😅 I do be running a lot and I get this shouted at me without fail every time
It's never been funny
Where on earth do you live that someone running sticks out so much? Around my parts they'd get pretty tired of shouting that at every runner...
Imagine your name is Jenny any time after this film was made.
Forrest lives an unexamined life, going from one high to the next, he is America itself.
Edited by Ben from Canada?! Glad to see he's still around and doing well - remember being unusually impressed by his editing on Mr Sunday Movies
Bruhhhh why couldn’t you have dropped this a week ago 😭 this would’ve been so helpful for my essay 1:35
While this is an interesting (and valid) take on a cultural touchtone of the mid-90's., I think it misses the mark in some aspects. I'm really glad that the essay brings up Candide, because I didn't know up until watching the video that the plot and style of an 18th century work was such an inspiration to the Forest Gump story. However, when Broey implies that the film takes out all that irony, I completely disagree. It takes out the cynicism in the original Gump character, but not the irony implied in the narrative. Starting with Forest's naïve, yet spot-on interpretation of what made the KKK such a silly yet pernicious organization that was still revered in in the south well into the 20th century, to the fact that putting all one's money into a "fruit" company could establish a very comfortable nest egg, the movie was chock full of satire. (Like, Gump pointing out that the soldiers in Vietnam were always on the hunt for "a guy named Charlie"? Talk about an exercise in military futility -- laughable but also accurate). -- I think Forrest Gump is best read not as an allegory and but rather as a story about very human and flawed characters whose lives are intertwined by fate and fortune, and are set against the backdrop of a broad-sweeping tour of recent American history. If seen this way, I think it is a masterpiece that attempts to fashion meaning out of a very odd book. And, by reading in between the lines, the viewer is also treated to a biting satire on the absurdities of American history.
But you need to have a feminist and marxist critique!
That’s what happens when you don’t read a text in its original language
@@wjglll340 Okay, I'll bite. A feminist critique would be that women, throughout all of American history, have been at a disadvantage compared to men. Our lives are objectively harder than men's lives, as a whole, due to the Western mind valuing men and their contributions to society on a higher plane and devaluing women and women's contributions. And, true to American history, Jenny's life is harder than Forest's even though he has the disadvantage of having a major learning disability. Feminist perspective? Check. As for Marxist, one could argue that Forest Gump shows a considered glorification of the classic American capitalist system -- follow the party line, don't try to buck the system, get yourself a college degree, invest wisely in some stocks, and you'll be set for life. Forest does this, and he does well. Jenny follows a different life -- not going to college, going off to be a hippie (whom some would consider to be Marxists), and becoming a musician. Her lot in life is eventually becoming a low-wage earning mom who works her butt off at a diner while trying to support her kid. From a Marxist point of view, the movie's portrayal of the proper way to achieve success seems pretty narrow, and the alternative seems quite bleak. Marxist critique? Check.
@@aR0ttenBANANA Mmmm, are you talking about Candide, here? I am not sure how reading an 18th century work of satire in the original French has bearing on whether a movie adaptation from a different book which was possibly inspired by Candide then can be said to have elements of satire in it (the movie, I mean).
@meganhartmann180 Feminism makes women more miserable and Marxism makes everyone poorer.
Outside the US, the movie was very much seen as a a conservative fairy tale from the get go. Beautifully crafted and compelling but a fairy tale, none the less.
are you sure? because if that's true, then it seems that people outside the US are even more conservative. unless you specify what excactly do you mean by "outside the US". is europe considered outside the US? i don't know about other regions, but in europe people definetely love forrest gump
I'm from the US and I see it in a similar light. Both Forrest and Jenny have misfortunes handed to them as children, Jenny, who wishes she could become a bird, tries to run away from her problems, constantly moving around, falling into vices that eventually claim her life. Forrest, through his simplemindedness, never feels sorry for himself and keeps moving forward in life, achieving great success.
Lol, no it is not
Europeans and Canadians also just like to mindlessly criticize the US because it shields them from self-reflection of their own dark societies.
@@ochoahighs98 Yes it is
Forrest Gump always reminded me of Disney‘s Snow White - two stories about a stays hopeful and optimistic in the face of the horrors that surround them. But Snow White was written for the people of the 30s and the horrors were things like hungry and a cruel ruling class.
*hunger
I always read it as hopeful and just a fairy tale with a message to keep trying as a teen….but then again not living in the states most of the politics passed me by, now with a greater understanding I can see the flaws, but don’t we also still need movies and stories than spur us on in difficult times to just keeping trying to move on probably now more than ever. The world seems pretty screwed up and just feel we need some escapism and hope. I really don’t need reminding the future is bleak I have the news for that.
I despise this movie on the basis that my first name is forrest, and I grew up in the 90s, the amount of times I have heard 'run forrest run' is enough to make even the most stable people go insane.
I rewatched Forrest Gump a few years ago with the mentality that it's loved by conservatives... and I still don't fully see it. Forrest gets into his successes mostly through overtly dumb luck or external circumstances rather than hard work: his mother sleeps with the school board admin, he becomes a quarterback by accident and he's just naturally good at running and ping-pong. He doesn't espouse a love for conservative ideologies and seems to be ignorant of politics in general, despite being a witness to many historical events. If it's an endorsement of conservatism, it's a pretty poor one.
I think a better reading of the film is the importance of having a support network, through the comparison of Forrest and Jenny. Forrest lacks a father but has a supportive mother who provides a stable home and education for him. Forrest generally trusts those around him and is able to find those who support him (Bubba, Lt. Dan). Jenny has an abusive father and grows up with trust issues. Despite being smarter than Forrest at school, she has no support other than Forrest himself. When they go their separate ways after graduation, Jenny loses the only stable thing in her life and falls in with abusive lovers (a sadly common occurrence to those who have come from abusive backgrounds) and this hampers her ability to have a successful life.
it’s crazy that you posted this today bc i literally watched forrest gump for the first time last night
I'd say someone who truly fits as the patron saint of the conservative canon of the 80s and early 90s is John Hughes with Ferris Bueller and Home Alone essentially being full blown celebrations of Reaganite Conservative politics and 80s consumerism. John Hughes was also openly sympathetic to the conservative movement. Forrest Gump in that sense is a close to that era in some ways.
No wonder why Fight Club, Magnolia, Shawshank Redemption, The Matrix, and American Beauty are better films from the 90’s haha
I know he was a republican but I don't see how it manifests in Ferris Bueller? Isn't he the opposite of someone who "works hard and deservedly gets what he wants". He's quite an anti authority figure and Cameron's ultimate freedom is to the destroy the expensive car which is his dad's expression of wealth.
Thank you for saying that about skeevy John Hughes. I get so tired of this narrative he was supposed to the voice of my generation. No, he was a boomer and it showed. What he did was make films depicting teenagers with a sense of inferiority, which is good and all, but he couldn't do it without embedding sexual harassment and other garbage into the plots and setting them in an almost entirely white-bread world.
@@tvsonicserbia5140 Those are fair points you make but I do think the movies definitely give a very 'Morning in America' vibe with a very sanitised view (not that they had to be edgy to be good or anything, and I do think both are good films btw), with an idealised vision of white, upper middle class suburbia with its conspicuous consumption as something to be aspired to (tho your point of the Ferrari somewhat goes against that I will admit). Side note, the iconic scene with the boring history teacher from Ferris Bueller features a conservative pundit named Ben Stein, and there is an interesting interview with him regarding the movie on Time magazine available online.
@@tvsonicserbia5140Ferris is only anti-authority to the point that it doesn’t actually have an consequences on him. His actions have consequences for others but what does he trade in for such transgressions? Nothing. He doesn’t learn anything.
When I saw the title of this video "Is Forrest Gump a conservative movie?" THE very first thing I thought of was the leg braces scene.
The idea that he's not REALLY disabled, at least not physically, he can simply litterally snap out of those leg braces it if he tries hard enough. If he's MOTIVATED enough. When a fire was lit under his ass it turned out w could simply become un-disabled.
The problem was never his disability, the problem was that he was being too coddled.
Forrest is like a bumblebee. His wings are too small for him to be able to fly but he's too stupid to know that so he does it anyway.
There's nothing wrong with the system. The best thing to do is to to just truck along, never complain, never question anything and never advocate for yourself and you too will be successful eventually.
No the idea is that his scoliosis was fixed. How is that hard to miss,
Maybe conservatives loved Forrest Gump so much because they saw he had a KKK ancestor, and said "Hey, me too!"
That's just dumb black and white thinking.
Got em
Cringe
Whaf makes it even worse is that the Forrest KKK footage is enhanced with a silent film as infamous as Birth of a Nation.
@@jesustovar2549 oh no
I highly disagree about the movie not being a satire. Like others here, maybe it's the fact that I'm not American, but I always saw this as a satire on American ideals. Forrest not understanding the meaning of big historical events is a great way to show this POV as a fantasy. As if you have to be ignorant in order to see some of those things as positive. It's especially noticeable when Forrest is in the army and the drill sergeant calls him a genious because he's following orders without thinking. In countries that have mandatory service, that joke felt spot on.
Meanwhile, Jenny, who is aware of politics, sexual abbuse and racism, has hard time coping with reality and even contemplates suicide.
It only fits that like the people following Forrest as he's running, politicians and critics in real life tried to find a meaning they could reflect on.
BTW, ironically, Voltaire was pretty racist. Writing on anyone from Blacks to Jews to Muslims as being inferior to white Europeans.
Candide comes to mind in your Voltaire tangent. And also, Forrest reminds me of Claude Geux from Victor Hugo’s work but in a twisted way where his lack of education and relative lack of forethought get disproportionately rewarded by the American system instead of the disproportionate punishment seen in Claude’s case.
really, a lot of satire of America (like in "The Simpsons") either come off more as just comedy (and very exaggerated) to forgein viewers and not as commentary, or vice versa.
as a non american that knows a lot about American culture this is not satire.
the whole idea about the american dream is satire itself, but sounds and looks soo great that republicans have been looking for that even before Reagan saying Lets make america great again.
“As well as the villagers he encounters when his spaceship crashes in New Guinea”
….bruh what
Edit: did she say pet orangutan?
Yep. It's all in the book.
At one point he goes to space with an orangutan and a female astronaut. They crash and get captured by a tribe of cannibals, led by a yale educated chief, and Forrest has to play him in chess every day or else they'll eat them.
It's such a dumb book
5:35 BEN FROM CANADA! No way! I've been watching Mr. Sunday Movies and the Weekly Planet for a decade. This is so cool. Huge fan
So somehow, despite forest gump being one of my mom’s favorite movies (she likes it because she relates to forest gump since she’s also disabled and learned to overcome her disability) the first time I saw it was last Christmas. I deal with debilitating anxiety and depression that always get worse around the holidays. And I started spiraling (I’m not even sure about what) and spent most of Christmas Eve crying in the living room with my mom because I felt s*icidal. While all of this was happening forest gump was playing on the tv behind us and my mom was able to get me to focus on the movie instead of my spiral and it helped calmed me down. I love forest gump, not because I like the movie itself, but because that Christmas Eve I was afraid I wouldn’t see the new year and I’m still here. I just wanted to share why this movie is so important to me
Didn’t expect to see Ben from Canada editing as a Mr. Sunday Movies fan
I have heard it called "white boomer nostalgia".
The scene where bubba dies kills me though. Very poignant criticism of Vietnam.
The scene where Forrest speaks to a whole crowd, but then it's cut off, he was going to talk about people who don't come back to Vietnam and die there, which is what he saw when Bubba died, is on the script.
Yes, how dare they make a film that appealed to white nation full of boomers.
The only valid criticism of the Vietnam war for the average American is that the soldiers died, how sad, the suffering of the colonizers
Never the suffering of the colonized
The vietnamese being only NPCs for the feelings of the Americans
@@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009 Can't the NPC's make their own movies?
@@wjglll340 they should be critical of their actions
When my Screenwriting class had a film canon excercise, where each of us submitted our top 10 movies of all time, Forest Gump won. And even as someone who really doesn't like this movie, I see it as almost too American to be disliked by Americans.
Even though it ends on a hopeful note, those notes of counter culture and disillusionment give the illusion that the movie's more balanced than it is & allows Forest to come off like a fantasy of someone who maybe wouldn't have done the "right" thing in the 60s and 70s, but would at least not participate in the worst parts of that era. To me, that lack of perspective and the flat portrayal of Jenny make it an extremely uninteresting movie to revisit, but I think most people remember the emotional impact they have watching it over any of these issues. They laugh when Forest says something silly in the edited archival footage, they cry over Sally Field and Robin Wright giving this material way more than it deserves, and by the end feel like they've gone through everything when, I'd argue, this film goes through really basic emotional moments.
The book sounds really interesting though, I wouldn't mind seeing it adapted more faithfully one day. Unfortunately, despite all the changes, I wonder if this could happen so long as the film looms so large. Who would earnestly walk into a movie theatre to see a book-accurate Forest's journey without at least passively thinking of the '94 film?
The thing is, if the book is re-adapted (kinda like how Harry Potter is being re-adapted into a tv show), would it be well received by those who like the film already (like myself), I read the book, it has some weird shit like Forrest having a monkey as a friend or going into space, I don't know if some of these things could have been adapted into film (funnily enough, Tom Hanks would star in Apollo 13, I love that film honestly).
Btw, did you know the movie almost had a sequel but it was cancelled due to 9/11?
I always have a problem with this kind of approach to film analysis as it sidessteps considerations for a films actual quality, art and storytelling in favour of considering them as package boxes for "good" or "bad" ideology. as if good films have a prerequisite of being ideologically critical or left leaning and cannot be judged on their own merits
This is an impressively well written and argued video. I'm also surprised I never encountered the term "picaresque" before. I've never seriously studied literature, but given how specifically that term describes a story style and how common those kind of stories are, one would think I would've read or heard it in passing years ago.
As a disabled kid who grew up with this movie on constant rotation thank you for this analysis. You not only articulated so many of my issues with Forest’s character but also helped me understand why my dad puts this movie on such a pedestal
Controversial, but I never like Forest Gump.😅 It's basically Disney's MCU for American history nerds, filled with easter eggs that only matter to those in the know. While it left a sour taste in my mouth for how empty every characters feel. Like the feather is suppose to symbolize going with the flow, but it kinda lacks "purpose". I just don't buy into the ideology. Jenny's bitter journey also felt way too tragic, like what's the point?
It is the standard mark of a nerd to pretend to be controversial while sucking up to the most trendy thing.
As a non-American (Finnish), I watched this as child and was confused. Only later in my adulthood I watched iy again and it made sense. I had no idea of American history back then because that wasn't my own country
@@wjglll340 Well, I am a nerd. Always have been. Sorry to disappoint edgelore.
@@originaozz I believe you. The easiest way to look cool is to parrot leftism.
I always have a problem with this kind of approach to film analysis as it sidessteps considerations for a films actual quality, art and storytelling in favour of considering them as package boxes for "good" or "bad" ideology. as if good films have a prerequisite of being ideologically critical or left leaning and cannot be judged on their own merits
I’m curious to see how Robert Zemeckis translates time in his new movie “Here”. It stars Tom Hanks and Robin Wright, and I’m kinda excited.
Yeah with all the AI de-aging, he's always pushing the boundaries of film technology.
Me too! I feel like this is the Gump/Jenny story we wished we could have had..
Thank you. You really summed up why I never really cared for this film.
I liked Forrest Gump when it came out. I was 14. Now that I'm in my 40's, I see it like most Zemekis projects: geared towards children. Most people are pretty simple minded, and incapable of critical analysis like the kind you do. Keep up the good work!
9:31 How come "Let us cultivate our garden" is a "rather progressive message", while "clean up your room" is a far right dogwhistle?
It's weird that's zemeckis has two movies that retcon the early development of rock n roll as being more white.
Marty inspiring Chuck Berry and forrest inspiring Elvis.
Such a sin against the current zeitgeist.
Back in the 90s we didn't view everything through such an obnoxiously racial lens.
@@URProductions if by "we" you mean "white people", then yeah you're probably right
@@URProductions) then explain the l.a riots in 92 and rise of hip hop.
Marty inspiring Chuck Berry is just a silly offhand joke. "It'd be funny if he was inspired by his own music. 'Cause time travel funzies." It's on the same level of him saying he's Vader from the planet Vulcan.
Forrest inspires one dance move that Elvis did. That's it.
I say this cause your post has the air of "Hmmm... suspicious!", and diminishes the impact of ACTUAL racial issues when you bring them up. Making people think "Why should I bother paying attention to this issue, if they felt that other one was worth bringing up?"
I think the reason the movies is so susceptible to being coopted by conservatives is because it tells American history the way that conservative America would like to remember it, as a romanticized fairytale version. Conservatism often engages in self mythology and promises a return to an idealized version of the past that didn't really happen.
This is a very weird interpretation to me because 1. It very explicitly talks about segregation (though does not go into any meaningful detail). 2. Forrest goes to Vietnam, the war conservatives like to forget exists.
I saw "FG" at the theater in '94, and when I began to hear Republicans claim it as their own, I thought they were right...but not in the way they saw it.
Forrest (like many conservatives in America) drifts through life observing and sometimes participating in the most pivotal moments of American history while being utterly oblivious to their importance and never reflecting on their consequences. Forrest falls ass-backwards into success with no discernible talent to speak of which would justify such success...again, as do many conservatives. He's a vapid, empty shell, devoid of substance or depth, incapable of grasping the gravity of events around him, coming to terms with them by citing insipid, obvious witticisms, imparted to him by his mother, which only the weakest mind would characterize as 'wisdom'.
Yeah, 'FG' is every bit the conservative movie Pat Buchanan said it was, no question.
tf is ur beef with forrest gump bro 😭😭
I mean...they ain't wrong tbh@@harmonygarcia333
@@harmonygarcia333 yeah, I didn't know anyone could feel this way about this movie 😂
Go watch a wrinkle in time again.
Well, it goes to show that you can live an a-political life in this county and it can still both legitimate and successful. The vast majority of Americans do this really, right up until election time,. Then, come March and the Primaries, they pretend to put on their "political thinking caps" in order to choose the the best candidates. But, as history tells it, it's truly heads-or-tails whether the U.S. ends up with the President it needs to get the job done, mostly because we vote as if it was a popularity race rather than as a supposedly serious contest between peers.
Great video. I enjoy learning about media analysis from people like you who can break it down and help me understand the message and executive decisions made to promote said message. Thanks.
Yet you could watch someone else break down this movie completely differently because she just took what she wanted to say and made it fit it. Notice how much of the movie she ignores?
The best takeaway from this video is that the film was not created the way it was to deliver a message or promote some kind of thought
it was made for money. It was designed the way it was to make the absolute most money possible
and it succeeded.
When you said the "empty headed" thing, I immediately answered "a fitting cultural idea for the era that gave us 'Who moved my cheese ?' in the 'self help-managerial' side of things".
I remember very little of the novel, Forrest Gump, but I did read it some years ago and to me the entire thing felt like an indictment of American culture, so far removed from the film. I'm glad that I wasn't entirely off.
I love movies that show a lot of periods in a character's life like this one and Benjamin Button. Being a history nerd, I've loved Forrest Gunp since I was a kid. Even tho it is so ridiculous and plays with history, I still find it charming.
Alison Landsberg and prosthetic memory certainly wasn't on the list of references I expected to hear but I'm so glad I did
Brave critic! I can only imagine how many people will feel about you criticizing a major piece of American infantilization. Great work!
The more I watched it, the less harmless the movie seemed.
I think calling it apolitical is deceptive, like not thinking of a scientist as part of the weapons development program just because they aren't testing out the guns themselves.
It's an anti-political in the way an anti-matter dissolves matter upon contact. This movie dissolves politics in the now more maleable mind of the viewer, allowing the politics to breed freely within reality.
It's apolitical in the way the call of duty games claim to be
Haha, seems like you referenced Oppenheimer unintentionally.
@@WhenIsItUs It's not brave to do the tired and cliched UA-cam armchair leftist thing of explaining why popular movies are secretly conservative.
Wow. You really give the movie and its writer/director more credit than they are due. It was Oscar bait. Seriously.
I always have a problem with this kind of approach to film analysis as it sidessteps considerations for a films actual quality, art and storytelling in favour of considering them as package boxes for "good" or "bad" ideology. as if good films have a prerequisite of being ideologically critical or left leaning and cannot be judged on their own merits
You mean Hollywood adapted a novel without understanding its tone or intention? I'm shocked. Shocked, I tell you! Well, not that shocked.
Even more shocking, the movie was going to have a sequel, a script was being prepared, but it was all cancelled after 9/11.
You didn’t listen to the essay. Zemekis clearly stated that he didn’t like the tone and changed it on purpose (15:00-15:20)
23:38
I really love this video and the research that went into it (I.e. reading the original novel), but I do disagree with this notion that Forest is characterised and made out to be, for all intensive purposes, a child.
I personally understand him to still be a man. Granted, he’s a simple-minded man with a naïveté and innocence to him, but a man nonetheless. Forest proves he is able to be a medal of honour soldier, a successful business owner, international sports champion, a loving husband and father who can and does provide for both Jenny and Forest Jr, all by himself as well.
Additionally, he not only knows what love is, but you can tell by the time he and Jenny are married, he’s matured and grown a lot to learn how love and life work. He’s attentive to his wife and son’s needs, and can instil values and foster the interests and talents of his son.
Again, he’s a simple-minded man with a beautiful way of seeing the world, but he is a man nonetheless.
Also, I understand that the film could have had a more nuanced, complex look into the history it frequently references, but saying it’s “aged like milk” feels very cynical. This film is also incredibly popular among left-leaning audiences, and for good reason. In a day and age like this, there are so few films that can inspire such hope and optimism in the world as much as this film does. At least, it gives me a lot of hope.
I’ll be honest. I have Autism, and for the longest time, I never wanted to have children because I worried I’d be a terrible father because of my disability, or worse, pass on my Autism. Luckily, it doesn’t work like that, but even if it did, that wouldn’t be a bad thing at all. Whether or not I were to have a child with a mental or physical disability doesn’t make them any less worthy of love or respect, and raising them would be the greatest honour I could be granted in my life.
Anyway, I always worried I could never be a parent because of my Autism. Then, I watched this movie, and honest to God the relationship between Forest and Junior always makes me tear up at least. This film showed me that you can have a mental or physical disability, but that doesn’t make you lesser of a person or less worthy of being a parent; it’s all about having the right values, mindset, and help because parenting ideally is a collaborative process between the child, parent/a and others.
So, this film is still beautiful to me, it’s a masterpiece, and now I can see myself being a parent one day and raising that child with the same compassion and hope I felt when watching this incredible film.
People who do not enjoy the movie have ruined their brains with politics
I'm glad to know more about the book version, it sounds really interesting and challenging, but I think movie gump will always hold a special place in my heart bc while it is important to have one's eyes open to problems around us and challenge our assumptions, sometimes you just want to watch something that feels simple and full of joy and seeing gump be kind to people and things just working themselves out around him gives me a spark of hope and gives me energy from the idea that the world can get better.
Forrest Gump is *NOT* a conservative film. While there are some negative portrayals of the hippie counterculture, it also criticizes Nixon, criticizes racism, and highlights the pointlessness of Vietnam. What I think happened is that media illiterate conservatives adopted the film as their own as the subtle satire went over their heads.
Thank goodness for smarty pants like you.
@@wjglll340You're welcome :) I have a high IQ of 420 and use it to analyze films and Marvel television shows
Hit the nail on the head. But, I will say that, perhaps a number of the media literate conservatives also adopted it was a bastion of conservative vales simply because that was narrative *they* wanted to tell. And, their conservative voter base ate it up because it gave them a good feeling to be "the good guys" again. It was win-win.
how much does it criticize those?
@@afterhourscinema782 this dude watches Rick and Morty and comprends it
18:14 Forrest was never meant to have leg braces forever, they were supposed to correct his spine. (But yeah in general his physical disability isn't based on any real diagnosis)
Those fakers!
I’m with you in loving the Polar Express! The puppet and hobo sequences are a little off putting but it never gave me nightmares and maybe it was just cus I was at that right age to be brave in the face of creepy things but I was still pretty young when it came out.
This is a banger video. I never thought of Forrest Gump like that, but you have incredibly good points in everything you said. Made me see the film differently, I'll have to watch it again to draw my own conclusions with what I know now!!
youre so insanely educated and its so clear youve spent so long researching this. Im officially obsessed!
Forrest Gump uses events in history the same way modern movies use cameos. "Remember that?". Nothing interesting is said.
Edit: just got to the pastiche part, and yeah that's a smarter way of explaining what I'm talking about.
I hate Forrest Gump (mostly because it is treated like a national treasure), but thoroughly appreciate your deep dive into it. Great video as always.
Because anything that is considered a national treasure should be laughed at, spit upon and given a feminist/ marxist critique. You are so next level.
@@wjglll340 sure, because I don't like one thing that is undeservingly held in high regard that means I hate everything that is held in high regard. I'm so next level...
@@developingtank Yes, you're a special boy.
My view on Forrest Gump forever changed when I thought about what disability Forrest has. After much deliberation, I realized that the implicit answer the film presents is autism. Forrest takes things too literally, he gets hyperfocused on tasks like ping pong, and most explicitly, he mimics the sound of the bed after his mother sleeps with the school official. That is echolalia, which is most commonly caused by autism. Immediately after this realization the film loses so much. It portrays autistic people in a deeply troubling way, as empty-minded puppets for whatever establishment can use their "savant" skills... yikes
I’m so sick of savant characters with an “unidentified mental disability” which is just autism with whatever quirks they want to add to the character. It’s not explicitly said to be autism so they can mishmash traits together and never have the character learn coping mechanisms. Instead it’s always the problem of the supporting characters to manage the main character. They’re often gullible with no real clue what’s going on around them and if they present a boundary it’s trod over for “their own good”. Film Forrest never questions, happily does as he’s told and goes along with life. He doesn’t really hold many strong opinions. Book Forrest is opinionated, aware and more human
This is the intellectual equivalent to rearranging letters in a sentence until you end up with “9/11 was an inside job”. It’s insisting on a reading or interpretation that your own biases prefer.
@@zerocore_they literally just gave a paragraph of diagnostic criteria the character meets LMFAO be serious
@@deathby1kslimes945 Mimicking a bed sound to embarrass someone can't be part of a serious diagnosis of autism. It's complete projection and a weak argument. The character has a low IQ near 70, that's what the film gives us.
Ping Pong is something he's good at so he does it a lot. It's a hobby he continues to do with his son.
So you invented a lense through which the thing everyone likes sucks. Well done! You are the golden victim today!
There's a book from 1993 called Hollywood vs. America by Michael Medved, standard American culture war stuff, that said that the success of Forrest Gump was due to its conservatism, whereas the failure of Star Trek V was down to its anti-god message.
I never realized Jenny died in the movie as I never made it that far. I honestly never got this movie, I always found it shallow and geared to just getting "Hey, he's with JFK" moments. Meh, whatever.
Is there an irony in the conservative movement gleefully claiming a man lacking mental faculties as the model american male? No? Just me seeing that ok...
Theres something ironic about this comment too if you ask me
Let’s not do that.
I mean, it's not really ironic because what resonates with them is that he's slavishly devoted to values they adhere to. They don't claim him because of but in spite of his "shortcomings".
Perhaps not the most respectful language to describe an intellectually disabled character as “lacking mental faculties.” Do better.
Is that the precise reason those individuals identify with him or have you taken a single facet of the character and decided that must be the precise reason? Also, may I ask why people like yourself write like this: "No? Just me seeing that ok..."? What the shit is with this form of communication?! It's like some weird sarcastic mimicry of a conversation with yourself. Stop it. It sounds so god damn stupid.