Good video. Final result looks great. A couple small things: Flow controls control the port exhaust flow (not the port that has pressure, but the opposite port), that’s why they control speed instead of force. You apply full flow to the extension direction, and meter the exhaust coming out of the other port. They aren’t reversible-they only meter the flow in one direction. There’s a little arrow on them. You can use them on both ends of the cylinder but you adjust the opposite one. I.e If you want to adjust extension speed, you adjust the flow control on the retract port. Also, pressure regulators are meant to be adjusted while air is moving which is a little difficult to do with just an air cylinder.
Hello from Taiwan! In my limited experiences, we use imperial threads for larger screws/bolts (larger than 5mm) and metric threads for small stuffs. We measure length with both metric and imperial , so most of the rulers here have both metric and imperial. (We also have another length system with "Taiwanese inch (3.03cm)" and "Taiwanese feet (30.3cm)")
I went a different route, mainly because I already had the parts. I built an aluminum frame around the blast gate and attached a stepper motor spinning an acme threaded rod. A nut riding on the rod moves the gate. Limit switches sensed gate position. I already had the stepper motors but a regular dc gear motor would work. Way slower than your method, but it works.
Great addition. I have seen solenoid valves with valves on the exhasts ports so by controlling the outflow you control the speed without using extra parts.
@@RobertCowanDIY yes your approach is right and will totally work. But in case you prefer replace it and have a cleaner set up you can search for them. I think in most solenoid valve you can unscrew the exhausts and replace it with whatever you want as long the thread pitch is the same. You can find the adjust al exhaust on amazon, AliExpress, bangood ecc...
Hello Robert. Excellent video and nice job of explaining applied pnematics. The discussion regarding throttling inlet vs outlet is interesting but was settled long ago in the instrumentation field. The piston will extend or retract under load much better with the exhaust flow regulated. This is because full pressure is applied almost imediatly to the drive side of the pistion and with it full force in the drive direction. As it overcomes the decreasing pressure on the opposite side of the pistion the stem moves forcefully and smoothly. This prevents a slow jerky start to the stroke often seen with the initial low pressure of a regulated supply. This change may improve performance when your vacum\m system is in operation. Thanks again for an excellent video.
I've never done this, so these are definitely questions rather than suggestions. 1. Could you use just one flow controller before the solenoid and accept that the two directions would be actuated using the same flow? 2. Do you ever really need to move the blast gate blade while the dust collector is switched on? - can you program delays in the post processor so that for instance you could wait long enough for the DC pressure to normalize before opening the blast gate? Thanks for a great presentation, and I'm looking forward to getting this going.
I made some changes to the 2 parts to fit the 4 inch blast gate as well. I don't currently have 6 inch runs, but I wanted to use something like this on my CNC as well. I will upload a remix on Thingiverse for anyone that would like the smaller version.
@Robert Cowan... You have obviously considered the air vs electronics question, and you mentioned your challenges with the servo / rack-N-pinion option, but nobody ever seems to answer the question of, "Why not just use a long solenoid without air?" Pneumatics seems like such a pain to me with all the extra tubes and connectors. Wouldn't a linear actuator be simpler?
Mechanical solenoids are pretty much always a disappointment, they just don't output enough force or consume an unreasonable amount of energy. A pneumatic system effectively only uses energy during the actuation period. Of course, you could trigger a movement solenoid then have a locking solenoid and etc (this particular application probably doesn't need that), but that's starting to look like a mountain of bandaids. If you already run shop air, adding some cylinders to the existing infrastructure is much lower effort.
What Troy said. They use a TON of current for any reasonable amount of force. I'm using them for another project right now, and they're pretty awful and every time I go to use them, I decide to go a different route. They are good for moving very small loads only. A linear actuator is of course another option, but something with a 6" stroke would be somewhat expensive, and then you need a controller. BUT, if you wanted something a bit simpler and didn't want to mess with air, a linear actuator would be the way to go. I have a 'linear actuators 101' video that's quite popular, I just didn't want to run power, have a motor controller, and then program in the logic (you'd need something to tell it when to extend and when to retract). This was a bit more 'plug and play'.
Thank you Troy and Robert. What I heard, is: * efficiency of power is much better in pnuematics * you would probably have to run power and/or air tubes with either choice * price seems like a wash From my perspective, I try to minimize maintenance and points of failure and/or comolexity, thus my question. I have never had an air compressor that I left running or even pressurized full-time because of condensation in the tank and slow leaks in the plumbing that would make the dog bark at 3am as the compressor turns on, so automating around compressed air seems inconvenient at best. This application, fully automated, would be operated by the CNC controller which means I don't want to mess with my compressor first (close bleed valve and turn it on). I would also be automatically turning on the dust vac at the same time, including a slow-start circuit. Perhaps a simpler blast gate design would be the design feature that drives a simpler, more efficient and less expensive way of actuating the gate. www.thingiverse.com/thing:2573041
@@KarlMiller Pneumatic cylinder systems tend to be extremely low maintenance. There's really only two moving parts: the sliding valve and the piston in the cylinder (the blast gate is moving regardless). Both of those are usually oiled by the air, so basically no maintenance. On top of that, all the motion is linear and easier to predict wear. If you've ever seen an episode of How it's Made, all of this kind of motion is handled by cylinders when possible for exactly those reasons. I'm fairly certain Robert's solution could be accomplished for around $40 in parts (I build robots with similar components) and what you linked could be done a bit cheaper, at the risk of increased maintenance and being more "fiddly" over time. As a general comment, I would hope most home shops just have their compressor on a timer to switch off at night.
@@troy4393 thanks for your thoughts. I just don't see the benefit or reliability of twelve air connections to move one small piece of metal a few inches. Too many parts and motors involved in a very simple task, especially when the alternative is a five dollar servo and a 3d printed arm.
What's this? Mr Cowan turns his attention to pneumatics? Hmm... How long before we see an experimental combat robot with an old-school gas-powered flipper? ;-)
Excellent video. Look forward to your Mach 4 integrated solution for controlling the dust collector itself (RF remote). I would like to do the same thing but need some guidance. I am running a Pro 48 x 120. Really enjoy what you are doing. Pete
Really good video. I've just been installing a new fully ducted dust control system and I've been looking at a way to automate the operation of them. I'm planning on using linear actuator though to do roughly the same thing. I think it will be easier to use an IFTT app to control the gates. Thanks for some ideas
Very true. I didn't do this because I don't necessarily want the dust collector cycling too much, and if I accidentally have the M command in my code, I don't want it turning on and off a lot. This isn't great for the motor, so I just control it manually still.
You might want to look into making a spring loaded fare that will open if the vacuum get to high too keep from collapsing your piping. Some of the jobs that I worked at had gates at the end of the lines to help stop the problems with to high of vacuum on the lines. The gate was just disk with a spring load that could be adjusted to keep it from opening when it was not needed.
Don’t control the speed by throttling the outlet!! It can cause over pressure in the cylinder and it won’t last long it will intensify good practice is meter in!! And not meter out you if you want to meter out use exhaust throttles
Hi Robert are your flow controls directional? Do they allow full flow one way? If so have that direction on the outlet direction of the cylinder otherwise just make sure that you control the cylinder speed by the flow going in and not the flow coming out
I see that it works on the bench... I would like to see it installed with the dust collector vacuum pulling against the blast gate creating additional friction. How did the 3d printed part's hold up? My blast gates are harder to open when the dust collector is on. I've been holding out on getting a 3D printer. I guess I'm a little dubious of the actual real life workability of the parts made by 3d printers. Thanks for posting!
This video is a few weeks old and the dust collector wasn't fully installed yet. So far, it works great. Under full suction, it can still open, just a bit of a struggle with 2K CFM pushing against it. Actual real life workability of 3d printed parts? I wouldn't worry about it. They hold up good, as long as they're not exposed to UV. I have other little 3d printed parts around the house and such, and they've held up for years, as long as you design it right.
Looking at your Amazon links you say 6" cylinder in the video just wondering if that's the 150 mm or the 175 mm stroke? .. I'm assuming it's the 175 mm but just wanted to make sure
It’s been a couple of years since you have done this. I have exactly the same need for my avid CNC. Still working well for you? I actually just built wooden gates using my avid as well and getting ready to wrap it all up. Any changes you would suggest. Great video. Thank you
I just used it yesterday! It still works. My only issue is I don't always have enough pressure to activate the solenoid (because I turned off the compressor and forgot to turn it back on). But it actually works exactly as expected years later.
@@RobertCowanDIY nice. All my parts just arrived excited to get it going. I will need to learn the Mach4 part but not worried about it. Thanks again for a great vid
I use a Prusa i3 MK3S. It's my recommended printer. It's not cheap, but it's the first printer that's truly 'set and forget'. It just works, and it does what I want it to do. It's worth the hype and if you can justify the price, just get it. I'm just waiting for their large volume one to come out, and I'll get one of those too.
The Avid CNC controller just has 120V outlets on the bottom. I just plugged the solenoid into one of those. There's no low voltage connection, that's just already taken care of with a solid state relay in the controller. I could bypass those and go directly into a 12V solenoid, but since it's there, I just used the 120V outlet instead.
Great design! I'm planning to use my woodworking DC for my CNC. I've seen warnings that the metal chips are a fire hazard but I've also seen contradictory info and have no idea how concerned I should really be. How do you intend to operate yours?
I'm not sure why people would say that the chips are a fire hazard. I guess if they get hot enough, they could burn the wood chips/dust? But for cutting aluminum, it's hard to get the chips THAT hot. They are pretty much room temperature when they leave the workpiece. Also, sucking them through the dust collector ducts cools them significantly, and very quickly. I don't really see an issue here. I put about 5 pounds of chips into my dust bin, which also has quite a bit of fine MDF dust, without issue.
@@RobertCowanDIY wild cause I bought the ones off the link you have in the description and I can not for the life of me get 1/4" tubing to fit inside...
I love how the color of your 3D printed bracket matches so well with the green cylinder. And that snap-connector... so satisfying.
It's all about the details.
Beautiful build
Good video. Final result looks great. A couple small things:
Flow controls control the port exhaust flow (not the port that has pressure, but the opposite port), that’s why they control speed instead of force. You apply full flow to the extension direction, and meter the exhaust coming out of the other port. They aren’t reversible-they only meter the flow in one direction. There’s a little arrow on them. You can use them on both ends of the cylinder but you adjust the opposite one. I.e If you want to adjust extension speed, you adjust the flow control on the retract port.
Also, pressure regulators are meant to be adjusted while air is moving which is a little difficult to do with just an air cylinder.
Thanks for the comments!
Hello from Taiwan! In my limited experiences, we use imperial threads for larger screws/bolts (larger than 5mm) and metric threads for small stuffs. We measure length with both metric and imperial , so most of the rulers here have both metric and imperial. (We also have another length system with "Taiwanese inch (3.03cm)" and "Taiwanese feet (30.3cm)")
I hate imperial units, but dang, thanks for reminding me that it could always be worse hahaha
Nice workflow and project Robert!
I went a different route, mainly because I already had the parts. I built an aluminum frame around the blast gate and attached a stepper motor spinning an acme threaded rod. A nut riding on the rod moves the gate. Limit switches sensed gate position. I already had the stepper motors but a regular dc gear motor would work. Way slower than your method, but it works.
Great addition. I have seen solenoid valves with valves on the exhasts ports so by controlling the outflow you control the speed without using extra parts.
Oh, that makes a lot of sense. I admittedly added the flow valves after the fact, because it was slamming open and closed too fast.
@@RobertCowanDIY yes your approach is right and will totally work. But in case you prefer replace it and have a cleaner set up you can search for them. I think in most solenoid valve you can unscrew the exhausts and replace it with whatever you want as long the thread pitch is the same. You can find the adjust al exhaust on amazon, AliExpress, bangood ecc...
This is a pretty elegant solution. Nice job!
Hello Robert.
Excellent video and nice job of explaining applied pnematics. The discussion regarding throttling inlet vs outlet is interesting but was settled long ago in the instrumentation field. The piston will extend or retract under load much better with the exhaust flow regulated. This is because full pressure is applied almost imediatly to the drive side of the pistion and with it full force in the drive direction. As it overcomes the decreasing pressure on the opposite side of the pistion the stem moves forcefully and smoothly. This prevents a slow jerky start to the stroke often seen with the initial low pressure of a regulated supply. This change may improve performance when your vacum\m system is in operation.
Thanks again for an excellent video.
Making your own custom 3D parts makes projects builds a 1 day or 2 day build instead of weeks long builds waiting for parts off a E-Bay.
And in this case, the parts weren't even available, I had to make custom mounds for the cylinder no matter what.
Really nice design!
Great design and video! Thanks!
I've never done this, so these are definitely questions rather than suggestions. 1. Could you use just one flow controller before the solenoid and accept that the two directions would be actuated using the same flow? 2. Do you ever really need to move the blast gate blade while the dust collector is switched on? - can you program delays in the post processor so that for instance you could wait long enough for the DC pressure to normalize before opening the blast gate? Thanks for a great presentation, and I'm looking forward to getting this going.
I made some changes to the 2 parts to fit the 4 inch blast gate as well. I don't currently have 6 inch runs, but I wanted to use something like this on my CNC as well. I will upload a remix on Thingiverse for anyone that would like the smaller version.
Nice!
Did you post the remix on Thingiverse. Thanks in advance
@Robert Cowan... You have obviously considered the air vs electronics question, and you mentioned your challenges with the servo / rack-N-pinion option, but nobody ever seems to answer the question of, "Why not just use a long solenoid without air?"
Pneumatics seems like such a pain to me with all the extra tubes and connectors. Wouldn't a linear actuator be simpler?
Mechanical solenoids are pretty much always a disappointment, they just don't output enough force or consume an unreasonable amount of energy. A pneumatic system effectively only uses energy during the actuation period. Of course, you could trigger a movement solenoid then have a locking solenoid and etc (this particular application probably doesn't need that), but that's starting to look like a mountain of bandaids. If you already run shop air, adding some cylinders to the existing infrastructure is much lower effort.
What Troy said. They use a TON of current for any reasonable amount of force. I'm using them for another project right now, and they're pretty awful and every time I go to use them, I decide to go a different route. They are good for moving very small loads only. A linear actuator is of course another option, but something with a 6" stroke would be somewhat expensive, and then you need a controller. BUT, if you wanted something a bit simpler and didn't want to mess with air, a linear actuator would be the way to go. I have a 'linear actuators 101' video that's quite popular, I just didn't want to run power, have a motor controller, and then program in the logic (you'd need something to tell it when to extend and when to retract). This was a bit more 'plug and play'.
Thank you Troy and Robert.
What I heard, is:
* efficiency of power is much better in pnuematics
* you would probably have to run power and/or air tubes with either choice
* price seems like a wash
From my perspective, I try to minimize maintenance and points of failure and/or comolexity, thus my question. I have never had an air compressor that I left running or even pressurized full-time because of condensation in the tank and slow leaks in the plumbing that would make the dog bark at 3am as the compressor turns on, so automating around compressed air seems inconvenient at best.
This application, fully automated, would be operated by the CNC controller which means I don't want to mess with my compressor first (close bleed valve and turn it on).
I would also be automatically turning on the dust vac at the same time, including a slow-start circuit.
Perhaps a simpler blast gate design would be the design feature that drives a simpler, more efficient and less expensive way of actuating the gate.
www.thingiverse.com/thing:2573041
@@KarlMiller Pneumatic cylinder systems tend to be extremely low maintenance. There's really only two moving parts: the sliding valve and the piston in the cylinder (the blast gate is moving regardless). Both of those are usually oiled by the air, so basically no maintenance. On top of that, all the motion is linear and easier to predict wear. If you've ever seen an episode of How it's Made, all of this kind of motion is handled by cylinders when possible for exactly those reasons.
I'm fairly certain Robert's solution could be accomplished for around $40 in parts (I build robots with similar components) and what you linked could be done a bit cheaper, at the risk of increased maintenance and being more "fiddly" over time.
As a general comment, I would hope most home shops just have their compressor on a timer to switch off at night.
@@troy4393 thanks for your thoughts. I just don't see the benefit or reliability of twelve air connections to move one small piece of metal a few inches.
Too many parts and motors involved in a very simple task, especially when the alternative is a five dollar servo and a 3d printed arm.
What's this? Mr Cowan turns his attention to pneumatics?
Hmm... How long before we see an experimental combat robot with an old-school gas-powered flipper? ;-)
Excellent video. Look forward to your Mach 4 integrated solution for controlling the dust collector itself (RF remote). I would like to do the same thing but need some guidance. I am running a Pro 48 x 120. Really enjoy what you are doing. Pete
such a cool video, i liked everything about it
Awesome video! Thanks for sharing!
Really good video. I've just been installing a new fully ducted dust control system and I've been looking at a way to automate the operation of them. I'm planning on using linear actuator though to do roughly the same thing. I think it will be easier to use an IFTT app to control the gates. Thanks for some ideas
A limit switch mounted to the gate could be setup to control the dust collector.
Very true. I didn't do this because I don't necessarily want the dust collector cycling too much, and if I accidentally have the M command in my code, I don't want it turning on and off a lot. This isn't great for the motor, so I just control it manually still.
You might want to look into making a spring loaded fare that will open if the vacuum get to high too keep from collapsing your piping. Some of the jobs that I worked at had gates at the end of the lines to help stop the problems with to high of vacuum on the lines. The gate was just disk with a spring load that could be adjusted to keep it from opening when it was not needed.
Don’t control the speed by throttling the outlet!! It can cause over pressure in the cylinder and it won’t last long it will intensify good practice is meter in!! And not meter out you if you want to meter out use exhaust throttles
Is that not what he was doing? Maybe I didn't see right
Sounds like I might need to move the flow control ports to the exhaust side. But from a plumbing standpoint, it's in the same path right?
Hi Robert are your flow controls directional? Do they allow full flow one way? If so have that direction on the outlet direction of the cylinder otherwise just make sure that you control the cylinder speed by the flow going in and not the flow coming out
Really cool design!
I need those flow control valves for a project but you didn't include a link... :(
I see that it works on the bench...
I would like to see it installed with the dust collector vacuum pulling against the blast gate creating additional friction.
How did the 3d printed part's hold up?
My blast gates are harder to open when the dust collector is on.
I've been holding out on getting a 3D printer. I guess I'm a little dubious of the actual real life workability of the parts made by 3d printers.
Thanks for posting!
This video is a few weeks old and the dust collector wasn't fully installed yet. So far, it works great. Under full suction, it can still open, just a bit of a struggle with 2K CFM pushing against it. Actual real life workability of 3d printed parts? I wouldn't worry about it. They hold up good, as long as they're not exposed to UV. I have other little 3d printed parts around the house and such, and they've held up for years, as long as you design it right.
@@RobertCowanDIY Toally agree, and its not like its a huge hassle to replace them if they fail. you printed them in the first place right!
Looking at your Amazon links you say 6" cylinder in the video just wondering if that's the 150 mm or the 175 mm stroke? .. I'm assuming it's the 175 mm but just wanted to make sure
Nevermind I just seen it's noted at a 150mm on thingaverse listing. Thanks printing now
Glad you got it!
Would you share your models? I attempting to do this with my 5” blast gates. Thanks
The files are in the description, as mentioned in the video.
It’s been a couple of years since you have done this. I have exactly the same need for my avid CNC. Still working well for you? I actually just built wooden gates using my avid as well and getting ready to wrap it all up. Any changes you would suggest. Great video. Thank you
I just used it yesterday! It still works. My only issue is I don't always have enough pressure to activate the solenoid (because I turned off the compressor and forgot to turn it back on). But it actually works exactly as expected years later.
@@RobertCowanDIY nice. All my parts just arrived excited to get it going. I will need to learn the Mach4 part but not worried about it. Thanks again for a great vid
@@mikerainwater528 Nice, good luck!
Very cool indeed. What do you recommend for a 3D printer? What do you use?
Thank you
I use a Prusa i3 MK3S. It's my recommended printer. It's not cheap, but it's the first printer that's truly 'set and forget'. It just works, and it does what I want it to do. It's worth the hype and if you can justify the price, just get it. I'm just waiting for their large volume one to come out, and I'll get one of those too.
Great video but how did you send the signal from Mach4 to the solenoid to open or close. I didn't see a low voltage connection.
The Avid CNC controller just has 120V outlets on the bottom. I just plugged the solenoid into one of those. There's no low voltage connection, that's just already taken care of with a solid state relay in the controller. I could bypass those and go directly into a 12V solenoid, but since it's there, I just used the 120V outlet instead.
Great design!
I'm planning to use my woodworking DC for my CNC. I've seen warnings that the metal chips are a fire hazard but I've also seen contradictory info and have no idea how concerned I should really be. How do you intend to operate yours?
I'm not sure why people would say that the chips are a fire hazard. I guess if they get hot enough, they could burn the wood chips/dust? But for cutting aluminum, it's hard to get the chips THAT hot. They are pretty much room temperature when they leave the workpiece. Also, sucking them through the dust collector ducts cools them significantly, and very quickly. I don't really see an issue here. I put about 5 pounds of chips into my dust bin, which also has quite a bit of fine MDF dust, without issue.
That's how I feel as well.
What size tubing do the cylinders use?
I think 1/4'?
@@RobertCowanDIY wild cause I bought the ones off the link you have in the description and I can not for the life of me get 1/4" tubing to fit inside...
I dig it.
haha this is so overdesigned, but i love it!
I disagree! The original servo-drive one was very weak and unreliable. But, I could have just used a string or something I guess.
@@RobertCowanDIY haha yeah, i was just thinking a 2x2 and a hook.