Facing Aluminum on Avid CNC Router with Datron Endmill
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- I needed a solution for facing aluminum on my Avid CNC router. Traditional end mills are too slow, fly cutters can't spin that fast, and spoilboard cutters aren't made for aluminum. I reached out to Datron and they sent me their 0068444, which is a 2 flute 20mm facing end mill. The results were very good.
For more information about the Datron endmills, visit www.datron.com or contact tools@datron.com.
00:00 Introduction
00:40 CNC Router Shortcomings
01:47 Tooling Discussion
05:20 Cutting Tests
09:38 Cutting Intensifies!
11:06 Chip Evaluation
11:33 Even. More. Cutting.
13:05 Final Thoughts and Ramblings
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Glad I'm not the only one that uses toeclamps under a nut to hold the vise :) Facemill looks good! I quoted a similar one (0068814A, single flute 14mm face) out a while ago but ended up waiting, those babies are expensive (~250). Will probably pick one up eventually but not sure I trust myself enough yet ;)
That facing speed is really impressive. It could be cool to see a video of doing the same operations on this as the tormach.
Awesome information thank you for your time in making this video.
Great video Robert!
Thanks for sharing. This is super useful information
Looks like a tool to have ! Just too bad I cannot get it in my country. Please do more videos like this on the CNC router and cutting aluminium.
I'm using a 40mm facemill mounted to a clamping extension from tschorn (00SPM1638). Allows it to be mounted into a ER25 16mm collet. Works great at about 10k rpm in my 2.2kw spindle.
The old rule of thumb for cutters is 75% stepover, if you go more than 75% then a climb cut ends up turning into a conventional cut geometry (there are nice diagrams showing this). Since you are using a "both ways" strategy, there is little reason to avoid a 90% stepover for facing. The only reason a small stepover would be used is for a machine that's grossly out of tram or is too flexible for the diameter of tool. If you don't have the HP to drive the cutter, you drop down to a smaller cutter. If your machine is too flexible, you drop down to a smaller cutter. So basically, if you have a 20mm EM and can't do a full width facing pass, you need to drop down to a smaller cutter, like 12.7mm (1/2") and evaluate. Part of the value of large diameter cutters is to avoid the finish problems that tramming errors will leave. A machine with perfect tram will actually have a very irregular cut because both sides of the cutter are touching the part, so a very tiny amount of tram results in the best facing finish.
Yeah, I completely forgot about climb and conventional and need to try it as a one-way. The small stepover was to try and reduce or eliminate any cutting forces, so allow the head to be as stable as possible. Your rules of thumb are good for mills, but this isn't a mill, it's a router.
@@RobertCowanDIY The 75% rule is simply cutting tool science, as the gullet approaches the cut at > 75% stepover, the geometry results in a conventional cut as seen at the cutting face. If you are facing, you don't want more than a 75% stepover, but less than 75% wastes machine time. In climb cutting the chip load decreases as the tool spins through the cut, with climb the chip load increases because the chip actually becomes thicker as the took spins. At >75% stepover the chip starts thin, increases in thickness, then thins. The objective is to reduce deflection and effective chip load with climb cutting. When you do have deflection, it is away from the part, that way a spring pass cleans up the surface. I think you may find that shallow DOC with large stepovers will produce the best and perhaps the flattest finish on your machine, since you aren't [effectively] recutting the surface.
Neat use of rubber bands on the vise parallels :D
I'm impressed!
Great Video ! Thanks
Love the chips coming off that tool. Have you considered doing Climb-only on your facing pass? Some of those periodic swirls look like they're coming from the reverse direction pass.
I need to play with it a bit more for sure. I just wanted to get a quick feel for how it worked in this video, but I will certainly do a bit more testing, I'll have to try climb only.
also looks like they have single flute with a small corner radius witch might dramatically improve the floor finish in pockets as long as a s mall fillet at the bottom of the pocket is acceptable.
I literally just put in a request for a couple facemills with Datron after seeing it on bit-tech. Can't wait
Nice! They're pricey (compared to some much more 'economical' options), but worth it if you take care of them and need the extra performance.
Care to comment on feeds and speeds for other possible tooling? I am just upgrading a gantry mill for doing prototyping in aluminum. The 2 x 4 CNC Router has a cast iron chassis, or I wouldn't have bothered. I improved the mass and stiffness of the bed with some heavy wall extrusion (100lbs) to which I will mount a 1/2" thick fixture plate and use a low profile mod vice for metal work holding. I want to make the fixture plate of course because a custom order would be quite pricey. Found a huge sheet of 0.500" 6061 T651 to use for the task. But to this point I am not sure about the facing tool.
I can't afford Made In USA for all my tooling needs. Sure, I buy Amana occasionally, and love the quality. Like the 4 piece V Bit set with razor sharp inserts. You can't go wrong there. But I have found a great Aliexpress tool vendor for many of my tapered and ballnose needs. You just don't get anything more than the tool. No suggested F&S of course. Recently I ordered some O Flute tooling and it looks very well finished. Hope it is good enough for 2D Contour, Hole, Bore, etc. My single point thread mill is going to require tests to perfect. Should have bought two considering the tolerances that are involved. But the first operation is often the facing of the material. In the case of a fixture plate, the facing is like referencing the plate to the spindle. Once done, the fixture plate must always return to the same spot. I have plenty of wood projects in the pipe. So a quick change out is essential. Anyway.... after I realized that the little set of Accusize insert mills were so out of balance for anything over 400RPM, I was out of options.
As a joke, I bought a set of 3 single point fly cutters because they had a 1'2". I ran the 1" to 12000 RPM and was surprised at how well it went. Just guessing as to the F&S as I write you. ALso the D.O.C is totally spitballing. I bet that will throw the chips all over the shop :)
Do you still recommend the Datron after 2 yrs has passed? Could you hazard a guess as to what settings I should use for the little 1" fly cutter? Cuz I am going to use it for my test piece. It is 6061 T651. Really looking forward to thread milling with the single point cutter. Best regards, C
That Tool is very nice ,,the price is ok for a tool like that.. nice work..Regards from Maldives
Slightly off topic, but I love the lighting in your videos. Crisp and clean, but with no glare, and no shadows to obscure those important little details.
Er, I love everything ELSE in your videos, too, of course, but I just wanted to highlight the -
Sorry...
Thanks. I have a LOT of light in my shop, I use no additional lighting, anywhere (for videos or for anything else really, no task lamps). I have over 100K lumens in my ~800 square foot space, which is quite a bit, but I can see everything.
would love to see 90% step over and .015'' doc, climb only, 150 imp 20k rpm
I feel like I need to do a follow up!
Robert Cowan you can count on me for a view 👍🏻
Having a much longer lead in and/or a lower acceleration setting would remove a lot of those marks I think.
The machine is shaking a little as it turns :)
I estimate cost of $270 CAD for the Datron. I have carbide facemills that I will bet do almost as good but haven't tested yet. Just getting my mist coolant together
most of the issue is you have the tool stick out way to far.. choke way up on the tool. also you should never run tool at high rpm with a long stick out.
Enjoyed the video. Neat to see you keep pushing it harder.
I totally would, but I need to use it and I don't want to damage it. Freebie or not, I want to continue to use it ;-)
Robert, I have the same Avid CNC spindle as you're using (different machine). The 0068444 is an 8mm shank end mill -- what collet are you using with it? Did it fit the 3/8" collet that Avid sells or did you buy a metric collet that fits the spindle? Thanks
I'm using a 5/16" collet, which is close enough. I just bought a couple collet assortments on Amazon awhile back, and the 5/16" worked just fine.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thank you for replying. ToolsToday.com sells Amana 3,4,6 and 8mm spring ER20 collets (made by Amana) -- $20.61 each. I think I'm going to buy a proper 8mm collet; I've seen sets of 13 metric ER20 collets online for $25, but that seems a little too good (cheap) to be true. Thanks again -- I always learn something from your videos.
@@robertlaszewski1282 Honestly, just go on eBay and get a collet set. I have nice ones and I have cheap ones. I cannot tell the difference. And for this purpose, I doubt you will find any real difference. I just checked on Amazon, you can get a 14 piece set for $25 shipped. Good deal to fill in the strange sizes you don't already have.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thanks Robert. I would certainly be better off having a 14 piece set at $25 than getting just the 3 collets for $65. I've been spending a bit of time with the Datron Tool catalog and they appear to sell end mills that I'd like to have ... especially the 4-in-1 single flute ...
Actual bit is 0068444G on this page:
www.datron.com/product/stepped-double-flute-end-mill/
Nice cutter no link?
Nope, they don't have an online store setup yet, so you just have to email them unfortunately.
Can you buy Datron endmills in the US? Does Datron ship to the US? Do they have a US distributor?
They tell me they are getting all that set up. Right now, just email tools@datron.com and they can help you out.
@@RobertCowanDIY Thank you Robert
Word of advice, this solid carbide EM is not going to be ideal for surfacing large amounts of material. The reason is that Al is abrasive and this EM will get dull relatively quickly. You will notice the finish quality suffer as it dulls. I recommend contacting Albert at AB Tools Inc and see if they can make you a custom Shear Hog for this machine. They make one for the Tormach (or Tormach borrowed the geometry) and since it's inserted, you can swap insert edges when the cut quality drops off. I see no reason why they can't take a 3/4" Shear Hog and turn the shank down to fit your machine. It'll be single flute, but it's really a good choice for Al surfacing.
OK, so I'll start by saying I'm not an expert... but I couldn't find anything to support your claim that carbide shouldn't be used with aluminum. In fact, everything I found confirmed what I previously thought, uncoated carbide is ideal for cutting AL. Aluminum OXIDE is abrasive, but that's something else. I do have a Shear Hog and it's a great tool, but it can't run it fast, at all. The max RPM I can get out of it is around 3500, 5K if you feel silly. The minimum RPM of the router's spindle is 8K. Hence the reason to go with something different. There are few tools that works with an ER20 collet that can spin that fast and not vibrate all over the place. That's why I ended up with the datron.
@@RobertCowanDIY Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, I said "Solid carbide EM", meaning not an inserted carbide tool. Because this is solid, you must send it out for resharpening when it gets dull and if you have an oopsie that chip it, same deal. That is one very expensively priced tool, and I've bought my fair share of carbide. Aluminum *is* abrasive, the tool will experience abrasive wear as it is used. 6061 is less abrasive and tooling lasts longer, but 7075 is at least 3x as abrasive IME. I am not a tooling expert, however I have a decent bit of experience cutting Al with a variety of different machines and tools. The Shear Hog is the cheapest to run and fastest tool, with the best finish. I was running a 1.25" 2 insert unit in a HAAS VF0 at 7500rpm at whatever the spindle motor would muster for IPM, taking .1 DOC at about 1" stepover. That's a 5HP machine with 7500rpm limit. The Shear Hog will go faster than that, spindle HP is the traditional limitation of that tool. You need to maintain your chipload (IPM) and adjust your DOC if your machine is complaining. You should be able to do 250IPM+ at 12K+ full width with a light skim pass (0.010-0.025), keep increasing DOC until the spindle complains or rigidity is a problem, then back off to the last good DOC.
@@eformance Yeah, their shanks are still too big and I'd have to see if they can actually run at that high of RPM.
@@RobertCowanDIY That's why I recommended calling Albert at AB Tools Inc. He does all sorts of specials regularly. I've heard nothing but good things about him. They also do brazed and solid carbide specials.
I'm glad you found a solution that works for you! I found one as well, through some friends on instagram. a small-ish indexable facemill from Busch, www.buschmachinetool.com/milling-cutters
uses carbide inserts that are relatively cheap, and of course you can switch to different styles depending on what you are milling
Those "swirls" are chatter from running the end mill way too fast and causing excess vibration. It's not just because it's a poor quality machine. Drop it down to 6000rpm.
The Amana Tool RC-3400 is the best for face milling aluminum on a CNC router. It's close to 2.5" diameter which makes it far more useful for facing without visible lines in the surface.
The Datron one is too small to be a proper face mill. It's fine when using one of their $250,000 machines with sub-micron accuracy but you may as well be using a regular end mill on a cheap cnc router.
Haha, 150 dollars... Thats cute... Its cheap to work in the wood business than working in metal business :D
So true. Metalworking is a lot more expensive. $150 isn't too crazy for a bit like this. For wood, it's almost absurd. But spending $250 on a specialized end mill isn't too bad in metalworking.