I wanted to leave my thoughts since I feel I've cemented myself pretty well in the Time Trial and Online communities so my feelings are extremely conflicted. Sorry if this comment ends up being super long. The complaints about everyone using the "best combo" have always been very overblown. Many people, for some reason, can't handle the fact that other players just want to win, and using the best combo maximizes your chances of it. Because of how many complaints there were from the more "casual" audience before Wave 4, a lot of competitive players (myself included) felt the balance patch was done almost solely to appease those that complained about it and, to put it bluntly, it completely screwed the Time Trial community at the time. Even though NOW we've stabilized and don't care that much anymore, it was a stab in the chest when we realized our hard work just felt like nothing. I'll give an example. Before the Wave 4 patch, I was grinding to improve my Rainbow Road 200 WR to a 1:31.7xx, which would have been an absolutely incredible run. When the patch released, I played the track to see what would happen, and I got a 1:31.706 after just 20 minutes of playing. Knowing that my months of grinding culminated in a 20 minute session that I put such little effort into made me feel like I wasted all of my previous time, and most other TTers felt the exact same way when they started destroying their old PRs. That all being said, though, the best way to keep up if you truly care is to adapt to whatever happens, good or bad. Being demotivated is reasonable, but everything moves on. Unfortunately, there's a pretty common belief in the TT community right now that grinding might be worthless if the Wave 6 patch does something similar to Wave 4. Yeah it would open up new possibilities but the best thing about TTing is outdoing yourself over and over again, and that's impossible with frequent balance patches. As far as online goes, I enjoy the Yoshi Teddy meta far more than the Waluigi Biddy/Wiggler meta. I just like Yoshi as a character way more and it's a more fun combo to drive. Despite that, the complete meta shift set a terrible precedent in my opinion, which is that people can complain enough about the current meta to where Nintendo will try to do something about it, and like you said, a patch will never fix the problem. There's always going to be something that's better than everything else even if it's only by a tiny margin. I've been saying this for a while but the Wave 5 balance patch is what the Wave 4 balance patch should have been. Instead of trying to completely replace the meta (at the time, Waluigi Biddy/Wiggler), they built around it (Yoshi/Luigi Teddy) by buffing Streetle and Pipe Frame. Thankfully, it seems far less people are complaining about the Yoshi meta but I've been worried that it will get to the point it was at with the old meta and major changes will occur in a future update (even beyond Wave 6, although that might be reaching). All in all, the game is in a good spot right now and I really hope they don't mess it up again in Wave 6. Everything you said was on point and I really hope this video reaches a lot of people.
Back before Wave 4 I saw you you as a MrBean45000VR of sorts, using your favorite character to set a record even if it isn’t as good as the meta. When it dropped and Yoshi was hailed the “new meta” I instantly thought of you and how frustrating it might feel that your “special” character was made much more common and therefore kinda less special. (Similar to how I felt about Daisy, being someone who had played as her since before the BCP.) I’m glad you embraced it though and are happy you get to play better as a character you enjoy more, that’s the best mindset response and I wish i had had that outlook on things when W4 came out rather than being spiteful of all the people flocking to the “Princess Weight Class” as I like to call it, and resenting them for being fake fans hahaha.
I'm straight up demotivated to do serious Time Trial grinds until I know patches are done, I practiced the new tracks and beat some of my friends' times, but I don't want to get into a multi-hour grind if there's a new patch that obsoletes it. I'm kinda worried that in future games Nintendo will be fine with breaking time trials again, but at least that's different since it won't be after 6 years with the same meta. I agree, if people can complain about the meta then get what they want, are they ever going to stop appeasing them? In theory there would be so many buffs that 150cc would be more like 200cc Lite.
Thanks for sharing all of this. The personal experience really puts into perspective why this was so frustrating. I'm not sure how many people will sit down and watch a 20 minute video on the topic - you are always free to share of course, but realistically, I do expect that people would rather do what is easier - and that is unfortunately just complaining about minor inconveniences. It is unfortunate that this was done without much diligence. Even if the worst effects are through now, nothing really stops them from doing it again if they choose.
I don’t really think this sets a precedent at all. As someone who comes primarily from the Smash community, the idea that Nintendo is actually listening to what fans have to say in regards to balance changes is almost laughable. It’s far more likely that Nintendo on their own decided they wanted to shake up the meta, and implemented the changes based on their vision for the game, not fans. It would make sense too. If they’re trying to add new characters, flattening out the balancing makes people more incentivized to use those new characters rather than sticking to the default top tier combo. I know Mario Kart is a different beast entirely, but the Smash community is larger, more vocal, and has more individually prominent community members, and it seems that the devs still didn’t pay attention to what any of them had to say most of the time. I like to think fan outrage helped to overthrow the Waluigi Wiggler dominion, but to say that Nintendo is just going to cater to whatever fans have to say all the time based on this one balance change situation like it’s that much of a slippery slope is a bit of an empty fear imo
I think my only problem with the meta is when it leaks into regional online where a lot of people try to stay diverse in those lobbies, more than the worldwide ones.
Overall, I really like the change from Waluigi to middle weights, the offered flexibility is not only really nice, it's also refreshing now, that people don't all have to go the exact same identical looking character, especially in a 6v6 environment. So many characters have the same statistics and don't have a huge advantage over the other in hitbox differences. Right now, the best combo is shared amongst Peach, Daisy, Tanooki Mario, Male Villager, Inkling Boy, 9 colors of Yoshi and 9 colors of Birdo. It enhances the appeal of looking at the game so much, alongside people who might enjoy to use other middle class characters like Mario or Kamek. Competitive play has such a friendly, inviting feel to it that was lacking in my eyes previously. I also look at the changes as a progression of the game, where even more characters can be in the spotlight, and more combos have their playstyle to appeal to competitive players. Knowing Nintendo took an action to change the game I am grateful it was to improve performance and not hinder. It's unfortunate for how it hurts people in the TT scene and removes history, at least it's something the future can build off of. If nerfs happened, there was just no competing in TTs anymore and that would have been disastrous Imo.
Happy with the meta changes as an online competitive player. I really like the expression that I have with the different characters that are now highly viable
Something positive for time trials imo is how Yoshi Biddybuggy dominating lead to, imo, more interesting records to watch. Before I could only watch the baby records without getting bored, now it feels like every track has intricate snaking, mini turbo strats, etc. That’s not to invalidate Waluwiggler TTs as “easier”, but I just found them borinh to watch and having me miss MK8’s firehopping
As someone who unironically likes Waluigi and finds him funny, I have to agree that him being dethroned was a necessary sacrifice for the health of the game, as it did ultimately provide more variety in character selection and kart builds (Even though Yoshi Teddy rollers is the best, it's only by a small margin). A best combo is inevitable, no matter how small. It's not worth seething over and Mario Kart definitely isn't the only game with a "best combo". Besides, the real best combo is the combo you feel the most comfortable with. Bonus points if the character is a favorite.
I think that from both casual AND competitive perspectives the idea of an “optimal combo” is highly overrated (apart from time trials, there it makes sense). In 99.9% of cases, winning or losing comes down to knowing how to drive the track on whatever build you like playing, then item management and awareness, and then a bit of luck too. If you’re a good player, switching to a slightly less optimal combo will make a difference in very few games, and if you’re not good using an optimal combo won’t really help you win. The best way to win is to get good, the best way to get good is to play more, the best way to play more is to have fun, and the best way to have fun is to use whatever combo you like the most (whether that be feel, looks, or whatever!) People just need to remember that “optimal” isn’t the same as “viable”. There by definition will only be one truly optimal combo, but that doesn’t discount the wide variety of viable combos you can use to VERY little detriment. I use villager girl with the city tripper, crimson slims, and peach parasol, which is suboptimal to the point most players probably wouldn’t even consider using it. But I love the combo in terms of aesthetic, it feels pretty good (I personally like a high handling stat despite it being worse for soft drifting) and I generally don’t feel that disadvantaged when going against an optimal combo that I’d ever consider switching currently. And there are SO many combos that are better than that, while still not being optimal, and using them will almost never lose you a game. (Again, it’s poor driving, bad item use, or just bad luck that will lose you a game infinitely more of the time)
You know how for Wuhu Mountain Loop in MK7 they removed the ultra shortcut in online but kept it in in time trials? I think that's what they should have gone for with balance changes, not applying them to time trials to not mess up with records there. This would be a bit confusing but I think most people that don't know why this would be the case would also not be invested enough to notice this in the first place. So I think it would be a decent solution
Honestly, I’m more than satisfied with the changes especially knowing that it’s more flexible than ever. You could use combos that are slightly off the meta and still be extremely competitive. It’s better than only seeing Waluigi Wiggler or Waluigi Biddy as the only real viable combos in the game. It’s actually enjoyable to me exploring different combos and still being able to keep up with the current meta. It’s a breath of fresh air if you ask me 👍🏽
I've been way more happy with the current yoshi takeover than the waluigi meta. The higher mini turbo makes allows for a huge variety of mini turbo strats, and the combos themselves just generally feel really good to play. I'm personally a koopa main who started to explore competitive mario kart a few months ago, so i'm also super happy that i'm not sticking out like a sore thumb amongst all the waluigis, since the current meta has more character and colour diversity. I do hope that they clean up the stats of the characters and parts that are still lagging behind pretty bad, so that they can at least compete somewhat in competitive, because I think the stat meta has potential to become really well balanced.
shoutouts to all my Daisy mains in mkwii, I think our game's meta is the most fun bc Daisy has the advantage of making it easier to make glitches/dodge collisions, while Funky is simply the fastest
The weird thing in Mario Kart meta is that unlike other games, the meta builds are sooooo comfortable to use, and for a game that is so fast and dynamic being able to just drive comfortable is great, I still try to pick different builds when going to lobbies or worldwides just to keep variety
Never had a problem with the old meta, and I never will have a problem with the new one. As a 200cc inward player, I'm happy that I can keep up with the meta. Prior to wave 4, I used Mario almost exclusively. Nowadays, I find myself flocking to more heavier characters such as Roy and Wario. It just feels nice to stick out and perform well, even if I'm put at a disadvantage. Probably a weird ego thing haha. As for those using meta builds, keep doing your thing. Play the game in a way that you enjoy the most!
the only strange thing is how all the inkstriker players dropped it for the teddy almost overnight whereas before it was about 50-50. yet nothing changed.
One of my major concerns were the successful and really helpful Meta NITA sheets which were a huge resource for improving online players lines. Like the Waluigi Wiggler Sheet in 150 taught me so much and thats why I opened the 200 biddy sheet together w Pianist to help players w the meta combo in 200cc find their optimal lines for online play/speedrunning and have a time to chase or go after. Since the update I havent been motivated to do anything like that again and I have become an inactive staff there cuz it could all change in an instant and all the work I have done felt for nothing. Watching and checking runs, tting myself and submitting them to the sheet felt like a big waste of time when wave 4 came out. Also I dont like the mixed meta sheets at all. Its much easier to settle on one combo than to have multiple meta combos in it. Because there will always be a track where it is faster to use Yoshi Biddy and always tracks where its faster to use Luigi Ink which already starts a combo war on a track when doing Nita as a practice for online play. Id just like to have an only Yoshi Teddy Sheet for both metas now. A fact I really like abt the new meta tho is that both modes have the same meta combo now which makes it easier for 150 Players to swap over to 200 not switching their combo. 200 Lounge is at a Peak rn. Lines havent really changed at all for 200cc cuz you ct really snake there. Also since the combo is a little faster, there are actually more blue outruns possible around turns that were impossible before. But they also killed some blue outruns with wave 2s new cannon physic already so getting some more now is a nice payback for that. I btw agree invis frames shouldnt have been an addition. And lowering them at first just to lift them again or the other way around for yoshi was just crappy.
As a casual mario kart player that tends to go online once in awhile. I can understand why some people don't really like the meta. And yet for me. I take it as. "So everyone is playing the same kart. That's fine. I'm just gonna play my P-Wing Kart, golden wheels, and golden glider and just have fun." Even if I do get my butt kicked because of the items mostly. It's still fun to just race with other people. I do remember 1 time I ended up getting 1st in 3DS Rainbow Road because the guy in 1st got hit by a spiny shell right at the end and I got first. So yes I prefer being the stand out in online races.
The comparison of Yoshi not being as bad "because he has multiple colors" is very weak in my opinion. Seeing 12 Teddy Buggy's and hearing 12 Yoshi sounds annoys me just as much as Waluigi Wiggler did. People don't even use Peach, Daisy or Birdo... You might see one or two if you get lucky. Everyone ADORES Yoshi. It is even worse because people without knowledge just copy the combo without knowing why. Thus always using Yoshi. I disagree with more MT = skill expression. Having to play Mario Kart with 300 APM like StarCraft is not fun, nor is it being skilled. We're almost at the point where you need to snake and NISC everywhere, that's not how a racing game is supposed to work. Knowing the track, taking better lines and managing items should make you win. Not spamming drifts on a toy teddy bear. Bagging is the worst thing to ever exist and should be outright removed. Even competitive players make fun of how stupid it is. Nintendo can fairly easily balance Speed vs MT and they can also make more characters and vehicle parts viable to play. You just need to create stat trade-offs people are willing to use. Not like the 0.25 weight vs 0.50 traction Tanooki Mario gives. Simply allowing Speed to compete with MT (somewhat depending on track) would already be a huge W for build diversity. Making Weight not jank online and require +1.0 instead of +1.50 to resist bumps from other players, would also help out. Every single stat in this game has been fully datamined, we know what they do, when they do it and why they do it. It is simply a matter of tweaking the numbers until trade-offs become more viable to make in certain situations. This doesn't mean swap your build every race, it just means you can choose to play a specific way and have certain benefits.
How a racing game is supposed to work is subjective. It is objective that opening up more possibilities to MT gives players more expression. It makes the game easier to play overall, I will say. I think certain tracks are mainly overboard, but the idea of bagging isn't something I completely hate. The biggest problem in this game is not that bagging works, but to what degree it does. You can climb the ladder a pretty far way by just being a good bagger. And many players take that path. It's not really an honorable path, but it is easier to them. It will prevent their growth and ability to become the best player in the world though given more time. Speed competing with MT is also an objective measure. In the old meta, speed better competed with MT too, and it didn't really diversify the game at all either. No matter where you really are on the spectrum, something is going to be dominant. It's just kind of the nature of MK in general. I do think people should give other characters equal to Yoshi more of a chance though.
It could still be toned down. They could for example change bill extension to slow down to your normal top speed after 8 seconds. Another example is the removal of NISC by simply removing the hopping mechanic (like Double Dash). The last (more invasive) example would be to rework tracks to not have massively stacked shortcuts in them.
Here’s my idea for the next MK game, make kart parts purely cosmetic (the differences between karts bikes and atv’s still exist Obv) and add a system that lets you adjust the stats on each one, you can even save different stat combinations to one kart part, this way even if everyone uses the same stats, everyone’s combo is aesthetically different, + certain tracks could warrant a change in stats so diversity could still exist
Wendy/Mach 8 is another combo similar to Waluigi on the Wild Wiggler now when it comes to status. It has very good mini-turbo and it's actually super good to use while doing online play.
Great video and well presented. As a dad and husband, I don't get much time to play MK anymore. I war a couple times a week and Lounge when I can - but I often use worldwides to warm up before playing competitively & therefore makes sense for me to use the same try-hard build there too. I'm looking forward to seeing the new content you have lined up 👍
It's been six months and I'm still bitter about the change. Most of my time in the game was time trials, and I feel obligated to redo every course and past times/retired players' times are now obsolete, with little changed other than moving slightly faster. All of this cost just to trade one cookie cutter combo for another, but with different colored Yoshis this time. 150cc WRs actually got less character diversity after the patch, with Yoshi running most tracks now as opposed to an almost even split between Waluigi and the babies. People will always use the fastest vehicle in a racing game, and people are going to have to learn to accept that. I had more fun driving Wiggler as well, sure it has less mini-turbo but it was more challenging with every turn and that felt good. Something about having a taller, rectangular vehicle frame felt great to drive as well.
Bayesic's video in the description stuck out for me. Having to replay every course sucks. It shows that it isn't about the time itself that is satisfying. It's the optimization. Faster times somehow feel slower lol.
@@HDRookie That's exactly it. Getting a fast time or below a second barrier is nice, but the feeling of optimization in a perfect run feels better. A faster run with worse lines just won't feel the same, you'll have to work on optimizing that time all over again.
First of all, I'm shamelessly competitive in any game, so I love your lounge vids. Second of all, the current meta is sooo much better than previously. There's at least 15 characters who are meta or near-meta, 4 vehicles that are near-meta, and whilst rollers dominate the wheels, there are multiple gliders with the same stats as the paper glider. So you can appreciate the diversity in the meta. In wave 6, I hope they just keep buffing non/near-meta stuff so we end up with more variety.
it's a fair enough point. just wish that a few different karts and characters had the same stats so there would at least be some visual variety. the yoshi repetition is getting so dull and overwhelming i feel like online loses some of the visual fun when everyone looks exactly the same, all races just feel identical to each other these days :(
I don't really know anything about the mario kart meta but what I do know is seeing Wiggler and Waluigi in the same picture brings back memories to the nintendo twitter account
Love the awareness in the first 10 seconds of the video lmfao. I come from mkw comp scene so when this mk8dx meta drama happened, I was just watching the chaos on the sidelines XD
It's definitely good to keep the meta fresh. Having the same combo be top with nothing else to really compete/keep up with it only makes the game stagnant. I like the idea of more combos being more viable against the top ones because variety is good (however it can become a bad thing). I'm even looking at a viable combo that can give yoshi teddy a run for it's money, and it's my "own" build. Not on Yoshi or the Characters with his stats.
as someone who is primarily a tt player, the update was a massive double edged sword to me. the fact that tt records got invalidated was really annoying and i have no motivation to play many tracks now, ESPECIALLY tracks that have become harder after the update (many yoshi biddy tracks). i also think it was an overall negative change to the diversity of 150 time trials; seeing yoshi everywhere is more annoying than the 50/50 split of baby daisy and waluigi however... the update probably had the opposite effect on 200cc. many tracks became WAY more interesting and unique with the new buffs and it was easier to complete runs too. plus, since 200 was already diverse, the amount of different combos used is just ridiculous now and it makes competing in 200 more varied and difficult to get good at everything
I haven't taken a good look at 200 yet, but I can definitely imagine this could be a nice change since Waluigi tier was probably annoying to optimize on some tracks with worse turning
I miss Waluigi lol. He was harder to use and most people thought walu wiggler was ugly so if they used it it meant they often were competitive/grinders which I respected. I also loved how annoyed casuals got when losing to that combo lol. For how many casuals say dumbass shit like "MK is all luck" it felt really good seeing them lose over and over to a combo they hated. Should say I don't actually have anything against casuals, I just hate people who say MK is all luck/no skill which massively discredits so many fantastic players, and I've witnessed a lot of casuals say stuff like this :(
Honestly i can relate wholeheartedly, Im cool wit Waluigi and i dont hate him or anything but i just hate how ignorant and annoying the casuals were at the time. I hate how they discriminated everyone who used the combo and only praised the other people who "tried to be different" and purposely use a bad combo
Yoshi is my favorite character specifically light blue yoshi along with Dry Bowser and Dry Bones. even before the DLC and wave 4 balance changes when heavys and waluigi was the meta. I used yoshi with Gla kart, button/roller tires and cloud glider even back then when this was the absolute worst kart in the game along with Badwagon and Standard ATV in tums of stats I didn't care because I like the Gla kart alot, ever since the balance changes we're they buffed the lower tire vehicles and tires using the Gla kart has become easier to us thanks to the 0.25 mini turbo buff in wave 4 and the huge 0.50 mini turbo buff in wave 5. Anyway it's a bit extreme how common yoshi has become even though there's four other characters with the same stats, seven if you count tanooki mario/inkling boy/male villager.
I think a lot of it just has to do with him being a fan favorite. I try to use some variety, but Yoshi and Birdo themselves just have the most with the alternate colors.
@@HDRookie Yeah that's true, at least there is more variety than pre-wave 4 ever since then every character has a chance to win and all the vehicles and tires parts are better balanced now.
Hey ! I started competitive around 1 year ago, I played with waluigi and yoshi for around the same amount of time I have to say that I love new meta because rooms are more diverse, it's more colorful with all these yoshi/birdo colors and more characters are now meta I also feel like teddy is super confortable to play with and way more than waluigi wiggler I feel like old competitive players feel waluigi wiggler more confortable because it's what they were used to, they learned to play it for years and when they changed it felt weird I also like the fact that in lounge for exemple, you can chose the same color of yoshi or birdo as your teammate so it's easier to see your teammate when you can't see username or to know when he is in dodge in the minimap for exemple (it's especially usefull when you can't call with your teammate because of language difference) Maybe it made the game easier because mt come faster but I feel like it's more welcoming, smother to play and the skill sealing is still really high
The new meta is great in my opinion. There are so many viable combos that each have pros and cons. Also, I love yoshi, and I'm so glad that he gets the privilege to be the meta.
I really hate how they didn't even bother touching drift bike. For a bike that should focus on drifting, I find it baffling how outside drift karts to TIGHTER TURNS Like seriously, Dragon Driveway or whatever it's called is still literally unplayable in 200cc with inside drift
I like how this meta has turned out. It’s still even possible to use characters like Waluigi on Teddy online and such. You aren’t outclassed, like say, the opposite would have been pre wave 4, but you just have to focus and play a little harder. The Yoshi build just makes competing at the highest rate a bit easier and that’s okay. Because the difference between Yoshi and Waluigi now isn’t one is straight up better and outclasses the other, it’s that one just makes performing at the best slightly easier - you can still do it with the old combo etc and I love that What I DO dislike however is that people just copy and don’t play other identical things. We always see Yoshi Teddy, despite the fact that there’s another vehicle with identical stats, the Cat Cruiser. Barely anyone touches that. We barely even see Peach Daisy or Birdo. I’d just like to see more individuality rather than hive mind-look at me copying my favourite content creator-Yoshi Teddy combos. Even Tanooki, and M Villager/Inkling are exactly the same in the 4 most important stats so there’s even MORE variety that people just choose to ignore.
Admittedly, I think Teddy just drives much nicer than Cat Cruiser. It's an instinctual thing. And I would still say Yoshi is way better than Waluigi now, it's not just about being easier. He's just faster and more versatile. Doesn't outclass because of pure straight line speed, but Yoshi is better.
I agree that the balance patch didn't really solve anything because now everyone uses yoshi teddy but i do like the fact there are more viable options though
I just personally really despise meta picks in ANY online game (Mario Kart, Smash, Pokemon, Splatoon, etc.) because it makes a game that is supoose to be about having fun into this overly competitive field where people will belittle and harass you simply because you aren't using the best build/character/weapon, etc. Can't I just have fun with my choices? If I want to race on the Yoshi Bike with my Mii that has the Yoshi suit, I shouldn't be targetted by the lobbies that only care about using the dumb looking tebby bear ATV to win. Similarly, if I want to use Corrin in Smash because I like them, I shouldn't be constantly mocked and punished by all these toxic tryhards who keep using top tiers (like Steve, Pyra/Mythra, Sora, etc.) just because I want to use a character I personally like. It alienates people who just want to have fun with the game they bought. Apologies for this rant, but I'm just so sick and tired of everyone trying to tell me how I should play the game.
I don't think most players want to target people for choosing off meta. In my experiences, meta combo players I think get targeted more by those who don't use them out of protest than anything else. Might depend on the lobby.
1:03 - I would say that seeing my comment featured in a video (yes, it was me who wrote that) feels like a compliment despite the obviously-not-positive context. Just as a testament that disliking a video doesn't mean disliking the whole channel, I actually liked this one, because I found it more agreeable. I myself never cared about the meta, neither here nor in Smash, because I always found it to be a forceful way to tell people what characters/stages/vehicles/etc. they should stick with, and it's always an excuse for elitists to impose a way or style to play that only caters to the most competitive people. I always pick Daisy and use Sport Bike, Flower Glider and Cushion as my set. Best combination? Unlikely, but it's what I like. Always appealed to be more than using the badly-overrated Waluigi and the ugly Wiggler (don't even know the tires and gliders used with them, and don't care either)
It’s a very bitter sweet change for me. While I still enjoy and have fun with the game, I much prefer the old meta as it just felt more rewarding to be good at driving with. Soft drifting was pretty much a crucial thing to learn with the old meta because if you weren’t able to soft drift, you weren’t going to be able to use the combos to their full potential, and once you finally got a feel for the combo, it felt so rewarding to drive, and it inspired me to make a dedicated video on soft drifting. Whereas with this meta, you don’t even really have to try when trying to get your desired mini turbo on a turn because the game just does it for you at this point. So while I’m still happy with this meta, I just prefer the feel of the last one. They just need to remove invincibility though, that shits so pointless with how many combos are viable now.
I liked invincibility when everyone just had a lot of it. Overall softdrifting still definitely matters, but it's moreso a going from good to great kind of tech, rather than one that feels necessary for everyone.
how to sum up this video in two words: "git gud" jokes aside, I think there should be a separate online lobby for people who want to "tryhard", whenever I play online in a
Perhaps a beginner mode, and the second you pass 5k vr you aren't allowed to be placed in it anymore. But you can play other modes if you want as well.
I really hope you get to have Troy on your podcast series, both of you having been competitive mkwii players sure would make it interesting, and I would love to hear about his opinions on the balance changes deluxe has had recently
I never minded the Waluigi omnipresence much, but I definitely prefer Yoshi being there because he has all the colors, and...c'mon. He's Yoshi. Everybody likes him, and it doesn't sting as much losing to Yoshis because he's a cute fellow and not a grumpy trickster like Waluigi lol
I kind of see it both ways, its kind of dumb that they decided to make changes of this magnitude so late in to the games lifespan which seems to be a big middle finger to the TTer's, but at the very least they buffed other combos instead of nerfing the others which imo is the better way to do it if changes had to happen. Also for MK games that have native online play it's the first time midweights get to be meta which is nice. I also like inward players like myself got a straightforward buff, no having to get used to a new vehicle + more characters are viable. RIP to the Rosie meta, I liked having that pack camo for those few weeks 😂
It's funny to see some video about patchs of Mario Kart for me because I am a causual player and when I see "Oh this character had a buff or a nerf" I personnally don't see a difference in my game. 😅 And when I see some peoples fighting over a thing that I can't comprehend I tell myself that I am good with my "innocence" of this subject. XD
It's definitely an overstated issue imo. I think people just don't like losing to said build, and don't want to blame their own play. Competitive play does come down to getting every tiny advantage though.
Im not against competitive players, i like playng whit evryone, if you like the meta thats ok, i dont realy care i just want to play a silly racing game as a small guy whit a mask whitout expression
Old meta was better now i just had to relearn the lines on all tracks. Had they done small changes every 6 months it would have been fine but not 6 years... and whoever truly have disliked seing waluigi wiggler is most definitely going to dislike yoshi teddybear soon enough just look at the tweet you have shown in the video.
The only way to solve this problem would be to change all characters and vehicle parts to the exact same stats. BUT then a lot of people would complain that their favorite character or kart is nothing special anymore and that the meaning behind different vehicle parts is no longer there. You can't please everyone. And it will be a grave mistake for Nintendo to try that in wave 6.
I wanted to leave my thoughts since I feel I've cemented myself pretty well in the Time Trial and Online communities so my feelings are extremely conflicted. Sorry if this comment ends up being super long.
The complaints about everyone using the "best combo" have always been very overblown. Many people, for some reason, can't handle the fact that other players just want to win, and using the best combo maximizes your chances of it. Because of how many complaints there were from the more "casual" audience before Wave 4, a lot of competitive players (myself included) felt the balance patch was done almost solely to appease those that complained about it and, to put it bluntly, it completely screwed the Time Trial community at the time. Even though NOW we've stabilized and don't care that much anymore, it was a stab in the chest when we realized our hard work just felt like nothing. I'll give an example.
Before the Wave 4 patch, I was grinding to improve my Rainbow Road 200 WR to a 1:31.7xx, which would have been an absolutely incredible run. When the patch released, I played the track to see what would happen, and I got a 1:31.706 after just 20 minutes of playing. Knowing that my months of grinding culminated in a 20 minute session that I put such little effort into made me feel like I wasted all of my previous time, and most other TTers felt the exact same way when they started destroying their old PRs. That all being said, though, the best way to keep up if you truly care is to adapt to whatever happens, good or bad. Being demotivated is reasonable, but everything moves on. Unfortunately, there's a pretty common belief in the TT community right now that grinding might be worthless if the Wave 6 patch does something similar to Wave 4. Yeah it would open up new possibilities but the best thing about TTing is outdoing yourself over and over again, and that's impossible with frequent balance patches.
As far as online goes, I enjoy the Yoshi Teddy meta far more than the Waluigi Biddy/Wiggler meta. I just like Yoshi as a character way more and it's a more fun combo to drive. Despite that, the complete meta shift set a terrible precedent in my opinion, which is that people can complain enough about the current meta to where Nintendo will try to do something about it, and like you said, a patch will never fix the problem. There's always going to be something that's better than everything else even if it's only by a tiny margin. I've been saying this for a while but the Wave 5 balance patch is what the Wave 4 balance patch should have been. Instead of trying to completely replace the meta (at the time, Waluigi Biddy/Wiggler), they built around it (Yoshi/Luigi Teddy) by buffing Streetle and Pipe Frame. Thankfully, it seems far less people are complaining about the Yoshi meta but I've been worried that it will get to the point it was at with the old meta and major changes will occur in a future update (even beyond Wave 6, although that might be reaching).
All in all, the game is in a good spot right now and I really hope they don't mess it up again in Wave 6. Everything you said was on point and I really hope this video reaches a lot of people.
Back before Wave 4 I saw you you as a MrBean45000VR of sorts, using your favorite character to set a record even if it isn’t as good as the meta. When it dropped and Yoshi was hailed the “new meta” I instantly thought of you and how frustrating it might feel that your “special” character was made much more common and therefore kinda less special. (Similar to how I felt about Daisy, being someone who had played as her since before the BCP.) I’m glad you embraced it though and are happy you get to play better as a character you enjoy more, that’s the best mindset response and I wish i had had that outlook on things when W4 came out rather than being spiteful of all the people flocking to the “Princess Weight Class” as I like to call it, and resenting them for being fake fans hahaha.
I'm straight up demotivated to do serious Time Trial grinds until I know patches are done, I practiced the new tracks and beat some of my friends' times, but I don't want to get into a multi-hour grind if there's a new patch that obsoletes it. I'm kinda worried that in future games Nintendo will be fine with breaking time trials again, but at least that's different since it won't be after 6 years with the same meta.
I agree, if people can complain about the meta then get what they want, are they ever going to stop appeasing them? In theory there would be so many buffs that 150cc would be more like 200cc Lite.
Thanks for sharing all of this. The personal experience really puts into perspective why this was so frustrating. I'm not sure how many people will sit down and watch a 20 minute video on the topic - you are always free to share of course, but realistically, I do expect that people would rather do what is easier - and that is unfortunately just complaining about minor inconveniences. It is unfortunate that this was done without much diligence. Even if the worst effects are through now, nothing really stops them from doing it again if they choose.
haha the zodiac guy
I don’t really think this sets a precedent at all. As someone who comes primarily from the Smash community, the idea that Nintendo is actually listening to what fans have to say in regards to balance changes is almost laughable. It’s far more likely that Nintendo on their own decided they wanted to shake up the meta, and implemented the changes based on their vision for the game, not fans. It would make sense too. If they’re trying to add new characters, flattening out the balancing makes people more incentivized to use those new characters rather than sticking to the default top tier combo.
I know Mario Kart is a different beast entirely, but the Smash community is larger, more vocal, and has more individually prominent community members, and it seems that the devs still didn’t pay attention to what any of them had to say most of the time. I like to think fan outrage helped to overthrow the Waluigi Wiggler dominion, but to say that Nintendo is just going to cater to whatever fans have to say all the time based on this one balance change situation like it’s that much of a slippery slope is a bit of an empty fear imo
I think my only problem with the meta is when it leaks into regional online where a lot of people try to stay diverse in those lobbies, more than the worldwide ones.
Overall, I really like the change from Waluigi to middle weights, the offered flexibility is not only really nice, it's also refreshing now, that people don't all have to go the exact same identical looking character, especially in a 6v6 environment. So many characters have the same statistics and don't have a huge advantage over the other in hitbox differences. Right now, the best combo is shared amongst Peach, Daisy, Tanooki Mario, Male Villager, Inkling Boy, 9 colors of Yoshi and 9 colors of Birdo. It enhances the appeal of looking at the game so much, alongside people who might enjoy to use other middle class characters like Mario or Kamek. Competitive play has such a friendly, inviting feel to it that was lacking in my eyes previously.
I also look at the changes as a progression of the game, where even more characters can be in the spotlight, and more combos have their playstyle to appeal to competitive players. Knowing Nintendo took an action to change the game I am grateful it was to improve performance and not hinder. It's unfortunate for how it hurts people in the TT scene and removes history, at least it's something the future can build off of. If nerfs happened, there was just no competing in TTs anymore and that would have been disastrous Imo.
Agree with pretty much all of this. There could have definitely been a better solution for TTs in my mind for sure.
Happy with the meta changes as an online competitive player. I really like the expression that I have with the different characters that are now highly viable
Something positive for time trials imo is how Yoshi Biddybuggy dominating lead to, imo, more interesting records to watch. Before I could only watch the baby records without getting bored, now it feels like every track has intricate snaking, mini turbo strats, etc. That’s not to invalidate Waluwiggler TTs as “easier”, but I just found them borinh to watch and having me miss MK8’s firehopping
I feel like online play was harder before, but TTs definitely seem more involved now.
As someone who unironically likes Waluigi and finds him funny, I have to agree that him being dethroned was a necessary sacrifice for the health of the game, as it did ultimately provide more variety in character selection and kart builds (Even though Yoshi Teddy rollers is the best, it's only by a small margin).
A best combo is inevitable, no matter how small. It's not worth seething over and Mario Kart definitely isn't the only game with a "best combo".
Besides, the real best combo is the combo you feel the most comfortable with. Bonus points if the character is a favorite.
I think that from both casual AND competitive perspectives the idea of an “optimal combo” is highly overrated (apart from time trials, there it makes sense). In 99.9% of cases, winning or losing comes down to knowing how to drive the track on whatever build you like playing, then item management and awareness, and then a bit of luck too. If you’re a good player, switching to a slightly less optimal combo will make a difference in very few games, and if you’re not good using an optimal combo won’t really help you win. The best way to win is to get good, the best way to get good is to play more, the best way to play more is to have fun, and the best way to have fun is to use whatever combo you like the most (whether that be feel, looks, or whatever!) People just need to remember that “optimal” isn’t the same as “viable”. There by definition will only be one truly optimal combo, but that doesn’t discount the wide variety of viable combos you can use to VERY little detriment. I use villager girl with the city tripper, crimson slims, and peach parasol, which is suboptimal to the point most players probably wouldn’t even consider using it. But I love the combo in terms of aesthetic, it feels pretty good (I personally like a high handling stat despite it being worse for soft drifting) and I generally don’t feel that disadvantaged when going against an optimal combo that I’d ever consider switching currently. And there are SO many combos that are better than that, while still not being optimal, and using them will almost never lose you a game. (Again, it’s poor driving, bad item use, or just bad luck that will lose you a game infinitely more of the time)
You know how for Wuhu Mountain Loop in MK7 they removed the ultra shortcut in online but kept it in in time trials? I think that's what they should have gone for with balance changes, not applying them to time trials to not mess up with records there. This would be a bit confusing but I think most people that don't know why this would be the case would also not be invested enough to notice this in the first place. So I think it would be a decent solution
I talked about it in the middle of the video, and I agree.
I just hate roller tires, they make almost every combo look ugly.
I used to think that way, but I'm so used to them now.
Honestly, I’m more than satisfied with the changes especially knowing that it’s more flexible than ever. You could use combos that are slightly off the meta and still be extremely competitive. It’s better than only seeing Waluigi Wiggler or Waluigi Biddy as the only real viable combos in the game. It’s actually enjoyable to me exploring different combos and still being able to keep up with the current meta. It’s a breath of fresh air if you ask me 👍🏽
I think other combos were more than viable previously. People were just more intimidated by it.
Yeah, normally I use Donkey Kong, Tanooki Kart, Monster and Waddle Wing and get relatively decent results
I really hope Yoshi stays good in mk8dx
I've been way more happy with the current yoshi takeover than the waluigi meta. The higher mini turbo makes allows for a huge variety of mini turbo strats, and the combos themselves just generally feel really good to play. I'm personally a koopa main who started to explore competitive mario kart a few months ago, so i'm also super happy that i'm not sticking out like a sore thumb amongst all the waluigis, since the current meta has more character and colour diversity. I do hope that they clean up the stats of the characters and parts that are still lagging behind pretty bad, so that they can at least compete somewhat in competitive, because I think the stat meta has potential to become really well balanced.
shoutouts to all my Daisy mains in mkwii, I think our game's meta is the most fun bc Daisy has the advantage of making it easier to make glitches/dodge collisions, while Funky is simply the fastest
I just.... hate the Rollers.
Rough few years for you it seems, haha
The weird thing in Mario Kart meta is that unlike other games, the meta builds are sooooo comfortable to use, and for a game that is so fast and dynamic being able to just drive comfortable is great, I still try to pick different builds when going to lobbies or worldwides just to keep variety
Never had a problem with the old meta, and I never will have a problem with the new one. As a 200cc inward player, I'm happy that I can keep up with the meta. Prior to wave 4, I used Mario almost exclusively. Nowadays, I find myself flocking to more heavier characters such as Roy and Wario. It just feels nice to stick out and perform well, even if I'm put at a disadvantage. Probably a weird ego thing haha.
As for those using meta builds, keep doing your thing. Play the game in a way that you enjoy the most!
You know, I appreciate the game for having awful combos. Can make playing with family or friends more engaging for sure.
Even though waluigi is my favourite mariokart character, I can not deny the new meta is better just due to how many more viable characters there are.
I liked Waluigi being meta at first, but it got old. I like the idea of diverse builds being competitive.
the only strange thing is how all the inkstriker players dropped it for the teddy almost overnight whereas before it was about 50-50. yet nothing changed.
One of my major concerns were the successful and really helpful Meta NITA sheets which were a huge resource for improving online players lines. Like the Waluigi Wiggler Sheet in 150 taught me so much and thats why I opened the 200 biddy sheet together w Pianist to help players w the meta combo in 200cc find their optimal lines for online play/speedrunning and have a time to chase or go after. Since the update I havent been motivated to do anything like that again and I have become an inactive staff there cuz it could all change in an instant and all the work I have done felt for nothing. Watching and checking runs, tting myself and submitting them to the sheet felt like a big waste of time when wave 4 came out. Also I dont like the mixed meta sheets at all. Its much easier to settle on one combo than to have multiple meta combos in it. Because there will always be a track where it is faster to use Yoshi Biddy and always tracks where its faster to use Luigi Ink which already starts a combo war on a track when doing Nita as a practice for online play.
Id just like to have an only Yoshi Teddy Sheet for both metas now. A fact I really like abt the new meta tho is that both modes have the same meta combo now which makes it easier for 150 Players to swap over to 200 not switching their combo. 200 Lounge is at a Peak rn. Lines havent really changed at all for 200cc cuz you ct really snake there. Also since the combo is a little faster, there are actually more blue outruns possible around turns that were impossible before. But they also killed some blue outruns with wave 2s new cannon physic already so getting some more now is a nice payback for that.
I btw agree invis frames shouldnt have been an addition. And lowering them at first just to lift them again or the other way around for yoshi was just crappy.
As a casual mario kart player that tends to go online once in awhile. I can understand why some people don't really like the meta. And yet for me. I take it as. "So everyone is playing the same kart. That's fine. I'm just gonna play my P-Wing Kart, golden wheels, and golden glider and just have fun." Even if I do get my butt kicked because of the items mostly. It's still fun to just race with other people.
I do remember 1 time I ended up getting 1st in 3DS Rainbow Road because the guy in 1st got hit by a spiny shell right at the end and I got first. So yes I prefer being the stand out in online races.
The comparison of Yoshi not being as bad "because he has multiple colors" is very weak in my opinion.
Seeing 12 Teddy Buggy's and hearing 12 Yoshi sounds annoys me just as much as Waluigi Wiggler did.
People don't even use Peach, Daisy or Birdo... You might see one or two if you get lucky. Everyone ADORES Yoshi.
It is even worse because people without knowledge just copy the combo without knowing why. Thus always using Yoshi.
I disagree with more MT = skill expression. Having to play Mario Kart with 300 APM like StarCraft is not fun, nor is it being skilled.
We're almost at the point where you need to snake and NISC everywhere, that's not how a racing game is supposed to work.
Knowing the track, taking better lines and managing items should make you win. Not spamming drifts on a toy teddy bear.
Bagging is the worst thing to ever exist and should be outright removed. Even competitive players make fun of how stupid it is.
Nintendo can fairly easily balance Speed vs MT and they can also make more characters and vehicle parts viable to play.
You just need to create stat trade-offs people are willing to use. Not like the 0.25 weight vs 0.50 traction Tanooki Mario gives.
Simply allowing Speed to compete with MT (somewhat depending on track) would already be a huge W for build diversity.
Making Weight not jank online and require +1.0 instead of +1.50 to resist bumps from other players, would also help out.
Every single stat in this game has been fully datamined, we know what they do, when they do it and why they do it.
It is simply a matter of tweaking the numbers until trade-offs become more viable to make in certain situations.
This doesn't mean swap your build every race, it just means you can choose to play a specific way and have certain benefits.
How a racing game is supposed to work is subjective. It is objective that opening up more possibilities to MT gives players more expression. It makes the game easier to play overall, I will say.
I think certain tracks are mainly overboard, but the idea of bagging isn't something I completely hate. The biggest problem in this game is not that bagging works, but to what degree it does. You can climb the ladder a pretty far way by just being a good bagger. And many players take that path. It's not really an honorable path, but it is easier to them. It will prevent their growth and ability to become the best player in the world though given more time.
Speed competing with MT is also an objective measure. In the old meta, speed better competed with MT too, and it didn't really diversify the game at all either. No matter where you really are on the spectrum, something is going to be dominant. It's just kind of the nature of MK in general. I do think people should give other characters equal to Yoshi more of a chance though.
Bagging/item smuggling has always been a thing in Mario Kart, that's never going away. It's just more widely known.
It could still be toned down. They could for example change bill extension to slow down to your normal top speed after 8 seconds.
Another example is the removal of NISC by simply removing the hopping mechanic (like Double Dash).
The last (more invasive) example would be to rework tracks to not have massively stacked shortcuts in them.
Here’s my idea for the next MK game, make kart parts purely cosmetic (the differences between karts bikes and atv’s still exist Obv) and add a system that lets you adjust the stats on each one, you can even save different stat combinations to one kart part, this way even if everyone uses the same stats, everyone’s combo is aesthetically different, + certain tracks could warrant a change in stats so diversity could still exist
Would be a very cool idea. Kinda like Crash Team Racing NF or even Mario Strikers Battle League, perhaps.
Wendy/Mach 8 is another combo similar to Waluigi on the Wild Wiggler now when it comes to status. It has very good mini-turbo and it's actually super good to use while doing online play.
Great video and well presented. As a dad and husband, I don't get much time to play MK anymore. I war a couple times a week and Lounge when I can - but I often use worldwides to warm up before playing competitively & therefore makes sense for me to use the same try-hard build there too.
I'm looking forward to seeing the new content you have lined up 👍
It's been six months and I'm still bitter about the change. Most of my time in the game was time trials, and I feel obligated to redo every course and past times/retired players' times are now obsolete, with little changed other than moving slightly faster. All of this cost just to trade one cookie cutter combo for another, but with different colored Yoshis this time. 150cc WRs actually got less character diversity after the patch, with Yoshi running most tracks now as opposed to an almost even split between Waluigi and the babies. People will always use the fastest vehicle in a racing game, and people are going to have to learn to accept that. I had more fun driving Wiggler as well, sure it has less mini-turbo but it was more challenging with every turn and that felt good. Something about having a taller, rectangular vehicle frame felt great to drive as well.
Same
Bayesic's video in the description stuck out for me. Having to replay every course sucks. It shows that it isn't about the time itself that is satisfying. It's the optimization. Faster times somehow feel slower lol.
@@HDRookie That's exactly it. Getting a fast time or below a second barrier is nice, but the feeling of optimization in a perfect run feels better. A faster run with worse lines just won't feel the same, you'll have to work on optimizing that time all over again.
First of all, I'm shamelessly competitive in any game, so I love your lounge vids.
Second of all, the current meta is sooo much better than previously. There's at least 15 characters who are meta or near-meta, 4 vehicles that are near-meta, and whilst rollers dominate the wheels, there are multiple gliders with the same stats as the paper glider. So you can appreciate the diversity in the meta.
In wave 6, I hope they just keep buffing non/near-meta stuff so we end up with more variety.
it's a fair enough point. just wish that a few different karts and characters had the same stats so there would at least be some visual variety. the yoshi repetition is getting so dull and overwhelming i feel like online loses some of the visual fun when everyone looks exactly the same, all races just feel identical to each other these days :(
I don't really know anything about the mario kart meta but what I do know is seeing Wiggler and Waluigi in the same picture brings back memories to the nintendo twitter account
Love the awareness in the first 10 seconds of the video lmfao. I come from mkw comp scene so when this mk8dx meta drama happened, I was just watching the chaos on the sidelines XD
It's definitely good to keep the meta fresh. Having the same combo be top with nothing else to really compete/keep up with it only makes the game stagnant.
I like the idea of more combos being more viable against the top ones because variety is good (however it can become a bad thing).
I'm even looking at a viable combo that can give yoshi teddy a run for it's money, and it's my "own" build. Not on Yoshi or the Characters with his stats.
as someone who is primarily a tt player, the update was a massive double edged sword to me. the fact that tt records got invalidated was really annoying and i have no motivation to play many tracks now, ESPECIALLY tracks that have become harder after the update (many yoshi biddy tracks). i also think it was an overall negative change to the diversity of 150 time trials; seeing yoshi everywhere is more annoying than the 50/50 split of baby daisy and waluigi
however... the update probably had the opposite effect on 200cc. many tracks became WAY more interesting and unique with the new buffs and it was easier to complete runs too. plus, since 200 was already diverse, the amount of different combos used is just ridiculous now and it makes competing in 200 more varied and difficult to get good at everything
I haven't taken a good look at 200 yet, but I can definitely imagine this could be a nice change since Waluigi tier was probably annoying to optimize on some tracks with worse turning
That's good but I greatly prefer 150cc TTs
Imo, I don't use the meta but I don't dislike it, I always use Medium Mii, Circut Special, Blue Standard, and Super Glider.
I miss Waluigi lol. He was harder to use and most people thought walu wiggler was ugly so if they used it it meant they often were competitive/grinders which I respected. I also loved how annoyed casuals got when losing to that combo lol. For how many casuals say dumbass shit like "MK is all luck" it felt really good seeing them lose over and over to a combo they hated.
Should say I don't actually have anything against casuals, I just hate people who say MK is all luck/no skill which massively discredits so many fantastic players, and I've witnessed a lot of casuals say stuff like this :(
Honestly i can relate wholeheartedly, Im cool wit Waluigi and i dont hate him or anything but i just hate how ignorant and annoying the casuals were at the time. I hate how they discriminated everyone who used the combo and only praised the other people who "tried to be different" and purposely use a bad combo
Yoshi is my favorite character specifically light blue yoshi along with Dry Bowser and Dry Bones. even before the DLC and wave 4 balance changes when heavys and waluigi was the meta. I used yoshi with Gla kart, button/roller tires and cloud glider even back then when this was the absolute worst kart in the game along with Badwagon and Standard ATV in tums of stats I didn't care because I like the Gla kart alot, ever since the balance changes we're they buffed the lower tire vehicles and tires using the Gla kart has become easier to us thanks to the 0.25 mini turbo buff in wave 4 and the huge 0.50 mini turbo buff in wave 5. Anyway it's a bit extreme how common yoshi has become even though there's four other characters with the same stats, seven if you count tanooki mario/inkling boy/male villager.
I think a lot of it just has to do with him being a fan favorite. I try to use some variety, but Yoshi and Birdo themselves just have the most with the alternate colors.
@@HDRookie Yeah that's true, at least there is more variety than pre-wave 4 ever since then every character has a chance to win and all the vehicles and tires parts are better balanced now.
Hey !
I started competitive around 1 year ago, I played with waluigi and yoshi for around the same amount of time
I have to say that I love new meta because rooms are more diverse, it's more colorful with all these yoshi/birdo colors and more characters are now meta
I also feel like teddy is super confortable to play with and way more than waluigi wiggler
I feel like old competitive players feel waluigi wiggler more confortable because it's what they were used to, they learned to play it for years and when they changed it felt weird
I also like the fact that in lounge for exemple, you can chose the same color of yoshi or birdo as your teammate so it's easier to see your teammate when you can't see username or to know when he is in dodge in the minimap for exemple (it's especially usefull when you can't call with your teammate because of language difference)
Maybe it made the game easier because mt come faster but I feel like it's more welcoming, smother to play and the skill sealing is still really high
The new meta is great in my opinion. There are so many viable combos that each have pros and cons. Also, I love yoshi, and I'm so glad that he gets the privilege to be the meta.
*_I KNOW..._* right...?! As I'm a Yoshi (and [Green] Koopa Troopa, in 200cc races) main, I 100% agree with you!!!
I really hate how they didn't even bother touching drift bike. For a bike that should focus on drifting, I find it baffling how outside drift karts to TIGHTER TURNS
Like seriously, Dragon Driveway or whatever it's called is still literally unplayable in 200cc with inside drift
It's a double edged sword. Bike does turn better on many tracks. Just not all.
11:33 check some of the recent SNS finals lol (they agreed upon a color before race 1)
We're all just stinky doodoos, and we shouldn't be so angry about eachother
I like how this meta has turned out. It’s still even possible to use characters like Waluigi on Teddy online and such. You aren’t outclassed, like say, the opposite would have been pre wave 4, but you just have to focus and play a little harder. The Yoshi build just makes competing at the highest rate a bit easier and that’s okay. Because the difference between Yoshi and Waluigi now isn’t one is straight up better and outclasses the other, it’s that one just makes performing at the best slightly easier - you can still do it with the old combo etc and I love that
What I DO dislike however is that people just copy and don’t play other identical things. We always see Yoshi Teddy, despite the fact that there’s another vehicle with identical stats, the Cat Cruiser. Barely anyone touches that. We barely even see Peach Daisy or Birdo. I’d just like to see more individuality rather than hive mind-look at me copying my favourite content creator-Yoshi Teddy combos. Even Tanooki, and M Villager/Inkling are exactly the same in the 4 most important stats so there’s even MORE variety that people just choose to ignore.
Admittedly, I think Teddy just drives much nicer than Cat Cruiser. It's an instinctual thing. And I would still say Yoshi is way better than Waluigi now, it's not just about being easier. He's just faster and more versatile. Doesn't outclass because of pure straight line speed, but Yoshi is better.
I agree that the balance patch didn't really solve anything because now everyone uses yoshi teddy but i do like the fact there are more viable options though
I just personally really despise meta picks in ANY online game (Mario Kart, Smash, Pokemon, Splatoon, etc.) because it makes a game that is supoose to be about having fun into this overly competitive field where people will belittle and harass you simply because you aren't using the best build/character/weapon, etc. Can't I just have fun with my choices? If I want to race on the Yoshi Bike with my Mii that has the Yoshi suit, I shouldn't be targetted by the lobbies that only care about using the dumb looking tebby bear ATV to win. Similarly, if I want to use Corrin in Smash because I like them, I shouldn't be constantly mocked and punished by all these toxic tryhards who keep using top tiers (like Steve, Pyra/Mythra, Sora, etc.) just because I want to use a character I personally like. It alienates people who just want to have fun with the game they bought.
Apologies for this rant, but I'm just so sick and tired of everyone trying to tell me how I should play the game.
I don't think most players want to target people for choosing off meta. In my experiences, meta combo players I think get targeted more by those who don't use them out of protest than anything else. Might depend on the lobby.
1:03 - I would say that seeing my comment featured in a video (yes, it was me who wrote that) feels like a compliment despite the obviously-not-positive context. Just as a testament that disliking a video doesn't mean disliking the whole channel, I actually liked this one, because I found it more agreeable. I myself never cared about the meta, neither here nor in Smash, because I always found it to be a forceful way to tell people what characters/stages/vehicles/etc. they should stick with, and it's always an excuse for elitists to impose a way or style to play that only caters to the most competitive people.
I always pick Daisy and use Sport Bike, Flower Glider and Cushion as my set. Best combination? Unlikely, but it's what I like. Always appealed to be more than using the badly-overrated Waluigi and the ugly Wiggler (don't even know the tires and gliders used with them, and don't care either)
Totally get it. I think as long as people aren't imposing stuff upon other people, it's fine. This of course, goes both ways.
It’s a very bitter sweet change for me. While I still enjoy and have fun with the game, I much prefer the old meta as it just felt more rewarding to be good at driving with. Soft drifting was pretty much a crucial thing to learn with the old meta because if you weren’t able to soft drift, you weren’t going to be able to use the combos to their full potential, and once you finally got a feel for the combo, it felt so rewarding to drive, and it inspired me to make a dedicated video on soft drifting. Whereas with this meta, you don’t even really have to try when trying to get your desired mini turbo on a turn because the game just does it for you at this point. So while I’m still happy with this meta, I just prefer the feel of the last one. They just need to remove invincibility though, that shits so pointless with how many combos are viable now.
I liked invincibility when everyone just had a lot of it. Overall softdrifting still definitely matters, but it's moreso a going from good to great kind of tech, rather than one that feels necessary for everyone.
how to sum up this video in two words: "git gud"
jokes aside, I think there should be a separate online lobby for people who want to "tryhard", whenever I play online in a
Perhaps a beginner mode, and the second you pass 5k vr you aren't allowed to be placed in it anymore. But you can play other modes if you want as well.
@@HDRookie and maybe a room for when you pass 15k vr
All this can boil down to us make the system of grouping people better
The meta really did change, all I see now is Yoshi, daisy, and birdo players
I really hope you get to have Troy on your podcast series, both of you having been competitive mkwii players sure would make it interesting, and I would love to hear about his opinions on the balance changes deluxe has had recently
I'll see what I can do 🫶
"good opinions and bad ones creat discussion" lol
Opinions are all subjective at the end of the day. What is good to one person might be terrible to another.
I'm very happy with this buff now i can play my inkling boy and teddybear kart and be competitive in ~8000 regional ❤❤🎉🎉
I do think you could've been competitive before, honestly. But this does help your combo out a little.
I never minded the Waluigi omnipresence much, but I definitely prefer Yoshi being there because he has all the colors, and...c'mon. He's Yoshi. Everybody likes him, and it doesn't sting as much losing to Yoshis because he's a cute fellow and not a grumpy trickster like Waluigi lol
I like Waluigi more than Yoshi
I Still Think Yoshi Teddy Buggy is Much Superior To Waluigi Wiggler
I kind of see it both ways, its kind of dumb that they decided to make changes of this magnitude so late in to the games lifespan which seems to be a big middle finger to the TTer's, but at the very least they buffed other combos instead of nerfing the others which imo is the better way to do it if changes had to happen.
Also for MK games that have native online play it's the first time midweights get to be meta which is nice. I also like inward players like myself got a straightforward buff, no having to get used to a new vehicle + more characters are viable.
RIP to the Rosie meta, I liked having that pack camo for those few weeks 😂
If they were going to make changes like this, it would've been much nicer in year 1 for sure.
It's funny to see some video about patchs of Mario Kart for me because I am a causual player and when I see "Oh this character had a buff or a nerf" I personnally don't see a difference in my game. 😅 And when I see some peoples fighting over a thing that I can't comprehend I tell myself that I am good with my "innocence" of this subject. XD
It's definitely an overstated issue imo. I think people just don't like losing to said build, and don't want to blame their own play. Competitive play does come down to getting every tiny advantage though.
Is that jpgiviners old team?
Yeah, they still actively play
Im not against competitive players, i like playng whit evryone, if you like the meta thats ok, i dont realy care i just want to play a silly racing game as a small guy whit a mask whitout expression
Old meta was better now i just had to relearn the lines on all tracks. Had they done small changes every 6 months it would have been fine but not 6 years... and whoever truly have disliked seing waluigi wiggler is most definitely going to dislike yoshi teddybear soon enough just look at the tweet you have shown in the video.
looking forward to next videos 💪
The only way to solve this problem would be to change all characters and vehicle parts to the exact same stats. BUT then a lot of people would complain that their favorite character or kart is nothing special anymore and that the meaning behind different vehicle parts is no longer there.
You can't please everyone. And it will be a grave mistake for Nintendo to try that in wave 6.