The camera testers at camera rescue are great, but I think that there is a need for some sort of Arduino based tester, so that someone like me with all formats and all ages of shutters can evaluate there condition. Just to know a particular shutter is fast or slow by a certain amount would really help in using those older cameras and lenses. Great video Nico. Thanks.
Sure, you can always DIY, but there is a(t least one) reasonably priced product available: Filmomat Photoplug. It's OK for leaf shutters, but the problem is you need far more sophisticated testing machinery for focal plane shutters; you need to know not only the "overall shutter speed" but how the two curtains are in sync = is the exposure consistent all across the frame.
I have a nice shutter speed and curtain speed tester from a guy in Romania (vfmoto on Ebay) which are nicely made and quite inexpensive but I'm lazy and did not try it as much as I should
i have one from the same guy. it's fussy but works well if you take the time to set it up right. i collect and repair old cameras as a hobby and have found it to be an essential tool.
I measured the shutter speed of most of my cameras. As Nico mentioned the deviation of mechanical cameras is often higher than 20%. Therefore it's mandatory to understand and know the real shutter speed of your camera.
If i remember correctly, the Nikon F3 actually has an electronic shutter? If the LR44 battery runs flat, then you only get 1/60s. I believe this was very controversial at the time...
So, do you think it’s worth getting your camera’s shutterspeeds tested to see how accurate they are, and get them adjusted if necessary? Can a camera repair place adjust the shutterspeed to be closer to the setting than the factory tolerance of 20%?
I think it is mandatory to know where your equipment stands in a performance way... then you know whether it is you or the camera when things go wrong. Servicing your camera is allways a good idea. Keeps the quessing at bay. Besides, a good mechanical camera is oftentimes a lot better than Nico suggests. Nikon for instance is mostly (when in good nick) within 5 or 10% tollerance...
Honestly, the PENTAX LX shutter speeds are electronically controlled too, otherwise it couldn't in auto exposure mode read from the film and live adjust exposure. If his slow speeds are inaccurate, the LX has the sticky mirror problem and needs to be serviced
@@jonnoMoto no, i mean buying a new camera if they care as much. if their tool doesn't accomplish what they want they should get a different one. but without knowing the reasoning for it, it's hard to say if this is actually a good solution. your idea about flowing water was also what i gathered, so i was more concerned if stacking would look silly in that case (if there would be ghosting, although in theory the 1/60th exposure would be 15 stops darker than the 1/4th)
Aperture is certainly not your answer either...an f/stop is not designed to be consistent across brands or even lenses within a brand (do some testing and quickly realise after a few lenses that f/5.6 can give 1 stop of variance). If you want something remotely accurate, you need to look into using cine lenses with t/stops which are calibrated across all focal lengths etc. Shutters such as copal open from the centre out, and shutter speed is calculated from 50% open...so the centre will always receive a certain amount more exposure than the edge of the image circle...this obviously becomes more of an issue the shorter the shutter speed. You then need to consider how big and what ratio your frame is within that circle. There are various scientific reasons why you may want 1/10th stop or more accuracy, but you simply aren't going to get it with film. The only way you can get this level of accuracy is to move to digital and an electronically controlled "digital shutter" where you choose to accept electrons in the pixel as exposure or not...this is governed by a fast clock depending on the speed of camera. In short, the answer is: digital sensor with electronic sensor controlled shutter coupled with a cinema t/stop lens (which should also be regularly serviced and checked for calibration); or better yet, control your exposure through multiple pulses (strobes) of light in a completely unlit room..if it's practical to do so.
@@alchemistalchemist6051 that's certainly true. And might vary with temperate. Is such a difference really significant for the looks of a waterfall? I agree that it's more relevant there, than with most subjects. But hmm. Not _that_ much, I guess.
That would make sense, it's the eternal balance of precision and accuracy. In the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal if accuracy is maybe 20% off at all speeds, but ideally you want the speeds to be 1 stop apart precisely and they should be repeatable. 20% accuracy and 10% precision is a very good standard for this kind of things
Definitely, room temperature is always assumed usually but some special lubricants and careful care make sure that those results won't drift too much, especially in the cold Finnish winter :)
@@alchemistalchemist6051 100 degrees Fahrenheit, 90% humidity here today. It would be easier to clock, and practice your "One Mississippis". You don't have to deal with hysteresis.
I worked in Camera Repair for years - and spent many hours in front of this machine - just amazing piece of test gear.
They are amazing. We have a few here at work and Im in awe each time.
The Nikon F5 equipped with a shelf-diagnostic shutter , shutter monitor . 1/3 EV steps on ( S ) or (M) ,stepless on (P ) or ( A)
The camera testers at camera rescue are great, but I think that there is a need for some sort of Arduino based tester, so that someone like me with all formats and all ages of shutters can evaluate there condition. Just to know a particular shutter is fast or slow by a certain amount would really help in using those older cameras and lenses. Great video Nico. Thanks.
Sure, you can always DIY, but there is a(t least one) reasonably priced product available: Filmomat Photoplug. It's OK for leaf shutters, but the problem is you need far more sophisticated testing machinery for focal plane shutters; you need to know not only the "overall shutter speed" but how the two curtains are in sync = is the exposure consistent all across the frame.
...and it's easy to find instructions to arduino shutter speed tester projects btw.
I have a nice shutter speed and curtain speed tester from a guy in Romania (vfmoto on Ebay) which are nicely made and quite inexpensive but I'm lazy and did not try it as much as I should
i have one from the same guy.
it's fussy but works well if you take the time to set it up right.
i collect and repair old cameras as a hobby and have found it to be an essential tool.
I measured the shutter speed of most of my cameras. As Nico mentioned the deviation of mechanical cameras is often higher than 20%. Therefore it's mandatory to understand and know the real shutter speed of your camera.
Are the Mamiya 645 AF and Mamiya 6 also prone to failure?
If i remember correctly, the Nikon F3 actually has an electronic shutter? If the LR44 battery runs flat, then you only get 1/60s. I believe this was very controversial at the time...
Yes. Nikon F3 shutter is electro-magnetic quartz controlled horizontally traveling titanium foil shutter. It's very accurate shutter.
That's why I use SR44
So, do you think it’s worth getting your camera’s shutterspeeds tested to see how accurate they are, and get them adjusted if necessary? Can a camera repair place adjust the shutterspeed to be closer to the setting than the factory tolerance of 20%?
I think it is mandatory to know where your equipment stands in a performance way... then you know whether it is you or the camera when things go wrong. Servicing your camera is allways a good idea. Keeps the quessing at bay. Besides, a good mechanical camera is oftentimes a lot better than Nico suggests. Nikon for instance is mostly (when in good nick) within 5 or 10% tollerance...
Honestly, the PENTAX LX shutter speeds are electronically controlled too, otherwise it couldn't in auto exposure mode read from the film and live adjust exposure. If his slow speeds are inaccurate, the LX has the sticky mirror problem and needs to be serviced
Umm... the mirror in Pentax LX is not part of the shutter, how could the (sticky) mirror affect the shutter curtains? It's not like Exa 1b :)
@@markuslarjomaa3122 not part, but the shutter needs the "free" signal
Pentax camera's of this age are to be avoided... they break at great speed at this time. And the are horrible to work on!
I did not work on the LX yet but can not imagine it being much worse than the rest
why not just stack a multiple exposure of 1/4+1/60th if they want a little extra exposure and are strict about apertures?
I would love to know the exact reasoning for the times, but it would make this a Podcast, which I wouldnt mind.
Camera may not have multiple exposure capability, unless you mean stacking in software
@@NicosPhotographyShow I got the feeling it was about getting the look of flowing water which can change a fair amount with little time change
@@jonnoMoto no, i mean buying a new camera if they care as much. if their tool doesn't accomplish what they want they should get a different one. but without knowing the reasoning for it, it's hard to say if this is actually a good solution. your idea about flowing water was also what i gathered, so i was more concerned if stacking would look silly in that case (if there would be ghosting, although in theory the 1/60th exposure would be 15 stops darker than the 1/4th)
great video...
Aperture is certainly not your answer either...an f/stop is not designed to be consistent across brands or even lenses within a brand (do some testing and quickly realise after a few lenses that f/5.6 can give 1 stop of variance). If you want something remotely accurate, you need to look into using cine lenses with t/stops which are calibrated across all focal lengths etc. Shutters such as copal open from the centre out, and shutter speed is calculated from 50% open...so the centre will always receive a certain amount more exposure than the edge of the image circle...this obviously becomes more of an issue the shorter the shutter speed. You then need to consider how big and what ratio your frame is within that circle. There are various scientific reasons why you may want 1/10th stop or more accuracy, but you simply aren't going to get it with film. The only way you can get this level of accuracy is to move to digital and an electronically controlled "digital shutter" where you choose to accept electrons in the pixel as exposure or not...this is governed by a fast clock depending on the speed of camera. In short, the answer is: digital sensor with electronic sensor controlled shutter coupled with a cinema t/stop lens (which should also be regularly serviced and checked for calibration); or better yet, control your exposure through multiple pulses (strobes) of light in a completely unlit room..if it's practical to do so.
Sounds like he could get a few cameras, measure their shutters and use the one where 1/2 is actually 6/10th when he needs it!
And then again, this 6/10th might not even be very repeatable :)
@@alchemistalchemist6051 that's certainly true. And might vary with temperate. Is such a difference really significant for the looks of a waterfall?
I agree that it's more relevant there, than with most subjects. But hmm. Not _that_ much, I guess.
I've heard that kodak had factory tolerance for speeds to be 20%, but for consistancy 10%.
That would make sense, it's the eternal balance of precision and accuracy. In the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal if accuracy is maybe 20% off at all speeds, but ideally you want the speeds to be 1 stop apart precisely and they should be repeatable. 20% accuracy and 10% precision is a very good standard for this kind of things
Yes that is true for the amateur or consumer films. Professional films were much strickter! Tolerances of 5%! That is why the are more expensive!
@@fretlessfender I was referring to camera bodies and their shutters. Not films.
Temperature while tested, and temperature in use will make a difference.
Definitely, room temperature is always assumed usually but some special lubricants and careful care make sure that those results won't drift too much, especially in the cold Finnish winter :)
@@alchemistalchemist6051 100 degrees Fahrenheit, 90% humidity here today. It would be easier to clock, and practice your "One Mississippis". You don't have to deal with hysteresis.
apply lubrication woof ^_^
first... somehow lol
I don’t understand the fuss. After having shot one film with several long exposures, you know whether you have to compensate or not.
Why didn't you choose a better question to answer :/
What would have been a better question to answer?
@@NicosPhotographyShow I don't know what's in your post-box.