Your Wi-Fi Is Slow Because Of This
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2023
- A lot of Wi-Fi systems are slow because there is a lack of understanding about the bit rate overhead. In this video I give a demonstration of some of the most common causes.
- Наука та технологія
I actually tried doing this recently, but I have found that a lot of devices go into a power saving mode and go down to a 6Mbps bitrate quite often. disabling the low bitrates has then caused connectivity problems, as clients then just disconnect. So there is still a balance. And changing to a min of 6Mbps is still quite a drastic increase in spare air time.
Absolutely excellent demonstration! I already knew the basics about this however your demo with the SDR really helped show exactly what is happening on the air!
You've always got to look at the RF
This is "gold" Mr.Paul. You R the "WiFi Whisperer".. Cheers from So.Ca.USA 3rd House On the Left.
For anyone who didn't understand, the big takeaway here is that if you want fast Wi-Fi, you need to put it on a treadmill. And the more of them you put on the treadmill, the faster it will go! 😉
top comment😢
Thank you for validating that I’m not crazy (for this reason at least) and that is a treadmill
Lol wth
It may not matter in a single home, but in an apartment building with neighbors above, below and on every side with their networks on high power it's a nightmare. This was a GREAT video. Thank you!
WTF? This channel is awesome. Trying out all sorts of cool experimentation like this. Glad I found you!
...and about fucking time too!
As long as I've explained this to customers over the years I've never bothered to view this over the spectrum like this... I've bookmarked this one and will be forwarding it on to those that beed a little more convincing. Awesome stuff Paul!
Fantastic video! Being able to visualize these concepts is a great way to understand them easier. Thanks!
Very first thing I do before deploying an AP is pull up a WiFi analyzer to find the channels not in use. After that it is all easy. Great video and learned allot that I didn't know. You get a subscribe and a thumbs up!
Carrier sense multiple access collision avoidance (CSMA/CA) at it's finest.
I see someone knows what's going on.
I know what I'm checking tomorrow at work! Paul thanks for the videos, found your Channel today via the Tesla video and now digging into your back catalogue, all very interesting! Looks like your subcount will be going up this week as the algo is promoting you. all the best
What took you so long?!
came here to say this, I work in networking but I am fascinating by wi-fi, despite the space age RF tool, the rest of it was really simple to follow, top work!
"You wouldn't have 5 APs sitting on top of each other". The thing the comes to mind is a "trade show environment". This could be a good start when it comes to specifying allowable parameters in that setting, which certainly different than what a hospital would require.
very informative. Thank you Paul
I shit you not the second you said the 'wifi is slow' my tablet started buffering.
Brilliant, Paul! Keep up the great content
Great video Paul, very useful. Thanks
This is excellent information. I had no idea. Thank you.
This was really helpful. Thank you.
Great video. What are your thoughts about band steering and roaming? Especially on aruba
Great insights
Where I live is so congested, WifiMonitor picked up different 37 APs all trying to use just 3 channels of the 2.4Ghz band.
2.4 ghz doesn't really have more than 3 usable channels. The band width of those channels overlap, so they have to be multiple channels over to not overlap at all. It is *good* when people only use channels 1, 6 and 11, because APs in the same channel can take turns talking while APs in different channels interpret each other as interferences and have no choice but to re-transmit in the hopes that it will go through..
Some door to door Amazon salesman must have hit up all my neighbours, RF scan has over 100 Eero devices and all running at 40Ghz channels 1-7
Using only three channels in 20MHz chunks is actually preferred, as long as they're on channels 3,7,11 here in America. They'll magically cooperate to all work separately as well as possible, as opposed to destructively interfering like a bunch of 40MHz Eero devices fighting to the death over a 30MHz chunk of airspace would do.
I bought a nighthawk mesh system and it works super well, but I did give my TV its own Moca adapter because it's in a weak spot and buffers with >50Mbps media. And I'm sure this video applies, too.
Fantastic video as always! 👌
Cheers, but I wouldn't say they're all good.
@@TallPaulTech Just the fact you don't have a obnoxious intro on every video, no Warthunder ad in the middle and "like&subscribe" ending make them a lot more enjoyable 😄
I've never said "like and subscribe" in any of my videos. I've told plenty of people to fuck off though :)
Excellent stuff Paul
Maybe
Interesting topic. How do more modern technologies handle this? Few people use .11G any more. How does 802.11AC or AX handle these things - and in particular - interference from outside AP's?
If the RF space is being used by something... anything.. then anything trying to use that same space will suffer.
Not sure I'm just seeing coincidence when there is none, but when devices like mobile phones or ESP32 devices on my WiFi network go into low power (PSM?) mode, they seem to talk slower WiFi speeds. I wonder if setting a higher minimum bitrate would interfere with that? I can't seem to reach my ESP32 devices when I set the minimum above 6Mbps. I'm using Tasmota and this might be a limitation of that or of the hardware itself.
And thanks for the WiFi consortium to define channel 1 to 11 (13,14) even only 3 are usable anyway, so your neighbours choose something in between to destroy a lot of otherwise usable airspace.
Or the worst variant: the ISP setting up 40MHz channels by default.
@@skinkie even better: the ISP default setting that has the router channel hop so you can't even pick a clear channel
How does this apply to Unifi APs and settings (except for reducing SSIDs)?
Valuable info, thank you!
How much value? ;)
@@TallPaulTechgotta be worth a like 🎉 i tried giving two likes, but it took it off 😮
That chain is fire bro
Power is becoming a major issue at home too. So many people don't get more bars doesn't mean faster and you can get cheap extra high power mesh junk online that gives you more bars so people think its better. Someone in my area (kinda rural, 100+ feet between houses minimum) got one and they are stronger RSSI in my own livingroom than the APs in my own house next to me...I actually had to redo my channels to work around their interference.
Great video... I will be having a look for min speed setting 😊
I would have to be a decent grade AP
If your wifi is slow, check if you have Bluetooth speakers interfering, cordless DECT telephones, RF gadgets, your neighbors, or even just your old microwave oven that started leaking. I can knock off my phone from my weak 2.4 GHz WiFi in the kitchen by placing the phone next to the microwave and switch it on
Next to the microwave is expected. The shielding is never perfect but it should attenuate it enough that anything a reasonable distance away has minimal interference.
DECT is a completely different frequency range (~1.9GHz). It does not interfere with WiFi.
Well im not a network guy but found that extremely helpful thank you!
I'm having slow wifi because my neighbor made a guest account that I'm using, but that's capped at 10 Mbit p.s. 🤣🤣😭😭
Great tip! Are there any good tips for optimizing WiFi network where there are many devices (~90) in close proximity (~2m) to the AP?
How the hell do you even fit 90 devices within 2m of each other? Turn the bit rates up, and turn the power down. Add a couple more APs on DIFFERENT channels, not right on top of the clients (as they'll hear adjacent channels anyway being that close)
@@TallPaulTech Maybe he have a phone farm ;)
@@TallPaulTech A Canadian online acquaintance of mine does IOT systems development and can easily have up to 200 devices in a room (his workshop). I wouldn't say it's impossible but the tuning for such density is going to be quite insane, I'm not even sure there are APs that can drop the transmit power and cell sizes that small, not to mention such devices typically don't have (assisted) roaming capabilities.
I'm wondering how much different it'd look with 802.11n/ac especially with 40Mhz multiple channel band.
It's the same issue, just that they have more channels in 5GHz to spread it out over.
If I'm correct, beacons are sent on the main 20MHz channel and the second or even third and fourth channel will be added for a client just for data. Some APs let you configure if you want base channel +20MHz or base channel -20MHz for the second channel.
Can you adjust the transmit rate on any router? What would it be listed as in a consumer grade router?
Depends on your access points, I believe it's listed as minimum data rate on Ubiquiti
is there a video that does this, but assumes less about what i understand/know?
Hi Paul, could you do a video showing the signal attenuation through different materials wall , wood , glass etc... and how should one calculate the number of APs based on that. Thanks
Good idea, but it could be a bit tricky, as I don't have a lab environment for that, and bits of RF would bounce around all over the place. I'll see if I can think of anything.
Do some simple benchmarking in your own circumstances. Building materials, typical wall thicknesses etc. Place an AP in a room, configure an ESSID at 2.4 GHz and another one at 5 GHz, and walk the rooms and corridors around with a scanner of some sort. The Inssider software by Metageek in some past version was my favourite simple scanning tool for Windows, up until a certain point where it became trialware or something. At the moment they require you to register to use the tool. In Linux there should be something similar... I can see LinSSID.
After you get the hang of how far the signal reaches while remaining practically useable, you'll be able to place the AP's pretty easily, given a rough floor plan.
For example, in the building where I work, 5 GHz gets through a 10cm brick wall, but not through a floor/ceiling, and 2.4 GHz gets through 2 walls or 1 floor/ceiling. Which means that I'd need about twice the number of 5 GHz AP's, compared to 2.4 GHz AP's :-) So in my case I decided that 5 GHz was a treat/bonus and didn't have to work everywhere. And, I allocate 2.4 GHz such that no two adjacent AP's share a channel. I enjoy the luxury of being the supreme master of the WiFi spectrum in our building, which does help :-) and which typically is not the case in residential blocks...
@@xrysf03 thank you! For sure I will try LinSSID
Am I correct in that the Transmit Rates mentioned on the GUI of Aruba is the same as OpenWrt 22.03.5 legacy_rates = no (Disallow legacy 802.11b data rates)?
Possibly, but I've never touched OpenWrt so I can't confirm.
That's what I was wondering. I think if.
After watching this, I checked all my APs to see how they were set, and on my OpenWRT routers that was my best guess. At least I was able to go onto my Engenius AP's and set the minimum to 11 Mbps as suggested, although I should really do a site survey and see if I have any clients using the old 802.11 versions in which case disabling the legacy 802.11b entirely is probably best. I have a HackRF and I knew it could pick up the 2.4GHz spectrum (I've fiddled with that) but it was definitely interesting to see it put to this use, and now I'm curious what kinds of interference I could find that seems to occasionally slow things down. Nice tip there.
OpenWrt, edit wireless, advance tab, coverage cell density setting
@@markhanna1764 What value does each one mean?
great! thx!
What should it be for 5G?
I don't think I've ever had an access point that gave me any control over the beacons other than how often to send them 😞
Probably not. Most are shit, especially home ones. The ones that do have the option still need a person who knows what it means to make the right settings.
Cwne88 is at it again 🥳.
"Ya mamma sent me to supervise."
Wrong. My Wi-Fi bit rates are slow because my cat sleeps on the router.
i have lots of APs at home! i likley i have this issue but, it auto tunes it's own power though. i also utilize wired for best performance
Anyone else waiting for them to turn the treadmill on? Awesome info
How are the APs going to turn a treadmill on?!
I want to know how it is that DJI is able to get 2.4/5 GHz to support controlling a drone with streaming video over 8 miles but I can’t get a decent 5 Ghz signal from the room next to me. It goes to show it’s possible. Either the 802.11 standard is crap or there’s lots of really bad implementations
I wonder the same.
Line of sight? There are no walls between you and your drone.
That would only be true in completely clear spaces.@@skinkie
@@skinkie ever heard of hills? Foliage? Anything in the path between the remote and the drone (besides air) can and likely will have an effect.
@@JeffHochberg no in The Netherlands we have heartly any hills.
Sadly, Wi-Fi is way to easy for any muppet to throw out there without a clue and flood the spectrums. The most common issue I get is over saturation of WAP's, all too close to each other and many are even big-name brands that many fall for the $$$ means it is better opinion. Many devices have big RF power but small antenna systems which result in screaming outputs but low sensitivity to hear/listen for weak signal devices trying to get back. Aruba and Ruckus good for this. I use a lot of UniFi and see the noise created by itself as well as the flood of other junk (ISP supplied cheap modem/routers are a good one on 40/80-160MHz bandwidths for 2.4/5GHz) but I have seen how a busy network can be destroyed in minutes by too many WAP's all screaming their heads off. Mining and Construction camp sites are my bigger clients as well as schools.
Great video BTW.
Anything will be bad if it's not set up right.
Would a simple solution be to use different channels on adjacent APs?
That's exactly the rule of thumb you should follow, if you have the luxury of having the whole spectrum for yourself.
You should not use overlapping channels like 1 and 2 or 6 and 7 because devices may not "hear" each other transmit on opposite end of their respective channels.
What are your thoughts on using ad-hoc mode for home network to reduce RF pollution, so to avoid continuous beacon transmissions? It is also possible to use on some routers...
That wouldn't change much. Ad-hoc just means that a station acts as the AP. There's still just as much shit in the air.
I think there is no beacon in that case.
Any idea how to set this on OpenWRT?
I don't
Under LuCI:
- Network > Wireless
- Edit your SSID
- Under 'General setup' uncheck 'Allow legacy rates'
- Under Advanced Settings, you can configure the basic rates under coverage cell density:
Normal, Disabled - Allows all rates
High - Disallows
thanks ALOT ! haha was playing with my Gl-Inet travel router, would be recommending people to this router for cheap Openwrt no fuss setup @@unicodefox
look at that beautiful FTTP
Heisenberg of networking
Careful with low power IoT devices, they're normally good if you move bacons from 1 to 5.5Mbps, I find if you set your Internet of Turd SSID to 11Mbps some devices stop responding. 6 Mbps (12 x500kbps units) Basic Rate value represent as 10001100 7th bit =1 in your beacon and nothing left for the mcast dns, try in the next frame pls :-)
Huh the first thing I look at is the type band, PHY rate, MIMO and number of spatial channels and so on. If all is good there, the rest typically falls in place...
What if i have no control of other APs?
Switch channels, or go to 5GHz
Thanks dude. Never considered low bitrate could add congestion.
If you live in an apartment building you have to consider the neighbours.
Tiime for an EMP
Or its because the persons Router itself or Configuration sucks.
And is it not true that many routers dont give you the option to change settings like that? So isnt this more in line with commercial hardware settings than residential?
residential stuff, ESPECIALLY that provided by the ISP, at least in the USA, ...suck. doubly so if it's ISP provided equipment.
@@cdoublejj Not the case with Verizon FIOS WIFI 6 routers/extenders. But generally yeah
cranking up the power is unfortunately often necessary due to mobile devices and other weird stuff. channel reuse is a pain no matter what power level you use. Wi-Fi 6E will save us.
You should really lay off the drugs.
@@TallPaulTechthe higher the power the better the data rate is and the less air time is used. The drugs are not the issue!!!!!!
Increasing access point Tx power too much can cause issues as well, depending on the Tx power limits of the client devices. If the access point Tx power is significantly higher than a client’s, then the client’s transmissions may not be able to reliably received by the access point for clients near the edges of the AP’s coverage. This could also mean other clients closer to the access point don’t known when the far client is transmitting, resulting in increased collisions, causing retransmissions and resulting in reduced performance.
@@LowOutputOh
❤❤❤
Unless you know there's a device that needs .11b data rates I'd prune to 12. Nothing in my house needs .11b
And G?
And because this is a problem I hate that Intel turned off 5GHz AP mode for their M2 Wi-Fi cards "because of legal reasons".
Is it not possible on Windows either?
Well using AM radio in aircraft may have so rational. But the root cause is just inability to evolve. Most Aircrafts rules are just the same. Using Q codes is on big example. The only clever move would be using digital communication and reducing radio chat by sending number and instructions directly to screens.
Just fyi - You replied to wrong video
[I just came from his video explaining why aircraft use AM so I thought I'd hit the back button]
That's done already. You are ages behind
You didn't check latency bro. Throughput is meaningless without latency graph.
Laying in bed right now and my wife is telling me her wifi is slow right now...
Yes, GR8T INFOtainment. It was a bit fast paced for my gray matter, but that's a "me" thing, not you... I firmly got the gest of it though. Like String theory j8Oo
So I am guessing that you ran all the SSIDs on channel 6 in order to deliberately demonstrate collisions?
SSID != Radio. all of the ssids come from the same radio chip so obviously they run on the same frequency as otherwise the radio would have to switch all the time loosing quite alot of throughput
Yeah, as I mentioned, you wouldn't normally do that.
Thanks! That's right, you did. But I didn't understand the significance of it until I'd watched the whole video, and by that time, I'd forgotten you'd said it! :)@@TallPaulTech
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 📡 Low bit rates can significantly impact Wi-Fi network performance.
03:23 📈 Increasing bit rates on Wi-Fi SSIDs can improve network performance.
08:02 🚧 Adding multiple SSIDs with low bit rates can congest and slow down a Wi-Fi network.
12:58 ⚙️ Increasing AP power can lead to more collisions and worsen network performance.
Made with HARPA AI
Who has 802.11b or even 802.11g devices using today?
Haha, my 2017 Tesla has an 802.11g network. It's the only thing I've seen in years that does.
@@TallPaulTech Incredible! I have to admit that my printer is 802.11g as well (HP 3050 2010).
AT&T’s uverse routers still use Wi-Fi 4. Google fiber install tech here. I even seen those routers used in conjunction with AT&T fiber many times. For some reason they only provide their Wi-Fi 6 equipment if they can bring the fiber inside the home, if not your stuck with their aging 2007 uverse equipment. Supposedly customers have told me that the fiber jacks are locked to the uverse routers so you gotta use their flaky bridge mode and hope a firmware update doesn’t factory reset the equipment.
@@suiton20 But Wi-Fi 4 is still acceptable.
@@francocastilloAR as long as customers aren’t trying to watch UA-cam or Netflix -45+db, 25+ft or a wall and a kitchen/bathroom/utility wall away from the router. Old houses has some terrible layouts for isp routers
Yay. Clickbait. Yay.