5 more disturbing books and my thoughts on disturbing films
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- Опубліковано 17 чер 2024
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Books discussed:
The Kindly Ones by Jonathan Littell
My Dark Vanessa by Kate Elizabeth Russell
Pretty Girls by Karin Slaughter
The Melting by Lize Spit
Tampa by Alyssa Nutting
Movies discussed:
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer (dir John McNaughton)
Salo, the 120 Days of Sodom (dir Pier Paolo Pasolini)
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Music: Who's Afraid of Halloween by Alfred Grupstra from Pixabay - Розваги
CrimonOLLY: “I’m done…”
Me: “Oh no!”
CriminOLLY: “…I have finished the challenge.”
Me: (heaves sigh of relief)
😂😂 sorry for any momentary distress!
@@CriminOllyBlog haha that’s ok. No harm, no foul
Phew! 😊
I watch loads of horror movies, but definitely have a higher tolerance for reading disturbing stuff than watching it. Imagery and sounds haunt me in a way words can't. Irréversible on my will-never-watch list and I kind of wish I could unsee Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer.
I love My Dark Vanessa. I've read it 4 times. It's one of my new favorites.
I’ve read My Dark Vanessa twice as well and I feel so weird that I love it so much considering how disturbing it is.
i've read that as well! I enjoyed it
MY DARK VANESSA definitely grapples with grooming and abuse (or "abuse," depending on Vanessa's perspective) in a thoughtful and interesting way.
I suspect you’re very young?
@@WateryFire No I'm 40
I find the difference for me between watching and reading horror is that I have control of the visual when reading but when watching I'm seeing someone else's vision that I can't control. I'm really looking forward to your tier list video.
Hi Olly! I have a book recommendation! Brother by Ania Ahlborn, I just finished it a few hours ago and I found myself routing for one of the villains. Sorry if you’ve heard this rec a thousand times. I hear it’s popular. Love your channel!
*Side Note: My Dark Vanessa was actually the catalyst for me starting therapy lol. Tampa has been on my TBR so I’ll give it a read!
Salo is better as a movie than a "novel"; the movie actually has a story.
Marquis de Sade’s politics were pretty much nonexistent if it didn’t involve him writing whatever he wanted and he could fuck (and rape) whomever he wanted. Salo on the other hand actually had things to say about fascist Italy in particular
Your disturbing books project has been really excellent, Olly - have found it really interesting to hear about what you've read and how you've reacted to the texts. I share your thoughts on disturbing movies. I used to be much more of a 'dark-side diver' when I was younger, I was really intrigued by disturbing stuff. The curiousity of youth, I guess. I also bought 'Irreversible' about 20 years ago, but I did watch it. Immediately unhauled the DVD once I had though, there's no way I'd ever want to watch it again! But as I've got older I have zero interest in watching that kind of thing, I also find digesting that sort of content much more manageable in books. I know what you mean about being able to close a book, it creates a psychological distance between me and the content much more so that stopping a film does. I react far more viscerally to visual input too, once I've seen something it's burned into my brain and will float to back into my mind at times of stress or fear, which can be problematic! Great video, mate 👍😀
I don't like disturbing films either. I think for me the difference is that when I read I'm more in controle. I can read faster , skim over a scene or choose how much I will want to visualize something in my head
For your disturbing books tier ranking, are you only including what you read for the challenge or are you also going to include books that you read before the challenge that are widely considered to be disturbing (American Psycho, Blood Meridian, The Road, The Girl Next Door)? Fantastic video and I can understand why Henry: A portrait of a serial killer did that to you. I couldn’t even get through it the first time I watched it. I have been able to go back and watch the movie in full and I do watch a lot of extremely disturbing movies but I get what you are saying also about it being harder to stop a movie then a book. I also find a big reason why some films can be way more disturbing than books is being able to see the reactions of characters and not just interpret what they would be from a text. I find that actually hearing something like screaming from someone getting killed is much more disturbing than what I think that would sound like but that’s just me. Great video!
Really looking forward to your upcoming ranking video of all these books!
Thank you!
Hi! I read Tampa and My dark Vanessa too, good to hear your comments on those! I recently read The watcher by Charles Maclean, which I really enjoyed. I do hope you'll continue to post videos aboit disturbing/weird/extreme/out-there stories despite your project coming to an end? You're great at what you do - thank you!
I imagine you've read 'Junk' by Melvin Burgess, a 1996 novel about teenage heroin addicts..? Pretty grim.
Loved the anecdote about your trip to the cinema 👍👍
Your storytelling skills are top-notch. This video is a testament to the impact a well-crafted narrative can have on one's emotions.
Great video, I haven’t read any of these but they sound intriguing. Those films, I agree with you, there’s only so much you can take, I am not into graphic horror but I like psychological stuff
I liked Tampa, I didn't find it as disturbing as Lolita, probably because I have a daughter. Tampa seemed so over the top while reading the protagonist's thoughts that I couldn't take it too seriously. However, I realize this really happened in Florida as it was in the news for a long time.
I saw Henry at a pre-release showing and we watched about a third of the audience leave crying or mad, friends still bring up that memorable evening all the time.
I watched Salo with the commentary on which gave a lot of explanation and history.
I totally agree about the difference between reading and watching disturbing material. While I do still watch quite a bit of disturbing film, I have boundaries. One example is The Outsider by Stephen King. I enjoyed the book but will never watch the series. I know it would be too much for me, especially as a mother to two boys.
I feel you when it comes to movies vs books. I can read graphic books but can't even watch certain movies with SOUNDS of cutting up bodies. I had nightmares after Jeepers Creepers!!!
I have been looking for a copy of Notice since I saw your review on it. After watching this I looked on Amazon and there it was! It says it came back into print in May 2024. I think I have you to thank for that! I’ll give it a read. Thank you for your videos
Thanks Lindsay!
That's an interesting view on the books vs. movies thing. I'm exactly the opposite. I can watch disturbing films all day, but certain books -- "What Good Girls Do" by Jonathan Butcher being the prime example -- just disturb me far more. Maybe it's because I connect more with books at a deeper level than I do with films, but I think it's more that books are generally more personal and go harder with the disturbing material than films can. Or maybe it's that I can distract myself in films by analyzing the effects, the cinematography, etc. and so get a little removal. Elem Klimov's film "Come and See" is the exception. That was a rough one.
Pasolini is a major director, and Salo is one of his major films; it is considered by many a great work of art. If you have a serious interest in cinema, therefore, I would suggest watching Salo despite its harrowing content. But--yes--It's disturbing. I remember reading Sade's book when I was young and being almost driven to tears by some of the horrifying atrocities at the end. But I kept reading. This is my attitude toward books and films alike that contain such agonizing content--when there is artistic merit.
I resonated with My Dark Vanessa; the writer did an amazing job showcasing grooming and what victims go through.
Tampa was horrid and I stopped it about 5 chapters in because I am not interested in going back to trauma therapy over a mere book 😂
It was really interesting hearing your thoughts on disturbing movies as compared to books! :O
I love disturbing films like Cannibal Holocaust, Emanuelle in America, I Spit on Your Grave, Last House on The Left, Gestapo's Last Orgy, A Serbian Film, Ichi The Killer, Zombie Flesh Eaters etc 👍
I agree re scary books vs movies. I think it’s a matter of the control of closing the book, as you said. Movies seem more alive somehow!
Once you've seen it, you can never unsee it.
I think Irreversible is a brilliant film. If it had been told like a regular film we would've ended up cheering on the protagonists and revelling in the gruesome finale.
By telling it backwards we're initially hit round the face by a very gruesome scene with very little context, have to piece together why that happened before being hit by rape scene (still the hardest scene for me to watch in any film). The film then immediately shows the main characters going about their lives, going to a party, doing mundane things at home etc. After what we've just been through I find it heartbreaking and feel it amplifies the earlier parts of the film.
That movie broke me. It really put me in such a depressive state. A very disturbing film.
I think the backwards nature of the film is the films weakest aspect and totally ruins any character connection...not as good or as well made as A Serbian Film which does everything much better
@@keithparker1346 I feel that the point was to keep us at arms length, to observe from the outside rather than get drawn into the story. I can see that not working for a lot of people though.
@@AndyFraserA imo there's a very good reason why the first part of a horror film is usually setting character sympathy Irreversible doesn't do that...a complete fail for me
@@keithparker1346 I don't see it as a horror film. I see it as art house or maybe (slightly) experimental cinema.
I don't think Irreversible sets out with the intention of us sympathising with the characters until the rape scene. If someone goes into the film completely blind they may have sympathy for the fire extinguisher guy in the club near the start and that would be a valid response to this film.
It seems to me that Irreversible worked for me but didn't for you. That's fine. Agree to disagree.
As far as films go, I am partial to Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer vice Salo.
I get what you're saying about your brain processing stuff differently. I'm fascinated by a lot of aspects of humanity, including our darker sides. And I enjoy the craft of cinematic gore and such. But there are certain types of films I have no interest in seeing, including stuff like Salo. In my late teens & early 20s, I watched a lot of nasty Italian films for example, but at some point, I lost my stomach for those. Part of it was the almost constant undercurrent (or just current) of visceral hatred toward women that seemed to permeate the films.
I can read about dark stuff and I can watch documentaries about dark stuff. But if it's a film that feels too real...no thank you. And I really, really don't want to see the actual stuff. I can't even watch shows like "America's Funniest Home Videos" where they keep showing footage of people getting hit in the groin or bumping their heads. I can watch and laugh at Jason eviscerating someone and strangling their friend with the guts, but don't show me even a millisecond of a real person actually getting hurt.
Also, I watched Irreversible and I wish I hadn't. Trust your instincts. Man Bites Dog is another one I found profoundly upsetting and wish I hadn't watched. Both are films that I can say were well made and probably achieved whatever the director was going for. But I felt like I was somehow less than I had been after I'd watched them, like something in me was dead and would never come back, and that's not a feeling I enjoy at all.
Thank you so much🎉🎉
Right there with you on reading disturbing content being easier than watching it.
Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer is so messed up. Great movie, can't watch it again though. I also agree with you - I love horror movies, but I do not seek out disturbing movies like something by Lars Von Trier. I think the reason disturbing movies are harder to stomach than disturbing books is because you can put a book down and take as much time as you need to absorb and "get over" anything disturbing. Whereas with a movie, you are pretty much locked in for the entire runtime and that kind of relentless disturbance is not something that appeals to me.
Yeah I was Von Trier’s Breaking the Waves years ago and that was enough (and I suspect that’s not even considered that disturbing compared to some of his other stuff)
I watched Breaking the Waves once too. With deathless resentment. A friend was all gung-ho and insisted on us renting it, then had the unmitigated balls to fall deeply asleep at the 43 minute mark and snore on the couch throughout. I watched the damn thing so I could refuse her next 25 picks at will and rub her face in it forever, but I still lost on that bargain.
NOT a fan of our Lars.
As a horror fan (in every form not just books) I think Antichrist by Trier was a stunning homage to horror movies like Evil Dead. The visuals, the setting. Yes, there were some over the top scenes, mostly looking rather fake. But horror in books for me personally leaves a far more lasting impression as the images are created in my own head. I think that's more intimate than watching something with cheap FX on a screen.
@@MrSeedi76 I respect your position.
Phew, congratulations on finishing your deep dive. Here's to a comedy project!
Ha - yeah I need something lighter!
I love the cover of The Melting, that one´s definitely on my to-read list. I still ADORE My Dark Vanessa, I still think about it a lot, and I could relate to her a lot, have the same way of excusing the actions of other people; it´s wonderful. I adored the line “I wonder how much victimhood they'd be willing to grant a girl like me", I think a lot of people who´ve experienced any kind of abuse can relate to it to a certain degree. So glad you read it and liked it (after I probably annoyed you to death to do so ^^ )!
Can´t watch distirbung or exploitation horror movies at all; some Rape and Revenge I can do, and like, but really disturbing stuff (like A Serbian Film, or stuff like that) I cannot. Sometimes I read about it on wikipedia, but I´m super sensitive and it can really disturb me to even read about it, so now I try my best to avoid that. I need that detatchment of only reading it, movies, nope.
Yeah, just reading about A Serbian Film makes me feel a bit ill. And yes, The Melting cover is really striking. And you didn't annoy me to death lol
@@CriminOllyBlog Yes, me too. When I first read what happens there I couldn´t stop thinking about it for weeks, it was so upsetting.
well, that´s good to know! I tried to show *some* restraint lol
Belated well done on helping to get Notice reprinted. Salo used to be screened weekly in a dingy cinema in Brisbane, Australia back in the day. Never got around to seeing it but sadly, probably around the same time you did, I went to see 'Henry' and consider it to be the worst moviegoing experience of my life. Yep, books are fine, films not so much. Must be getting old.
Yeah, I hear you. Actors have to make those movies. Honestly? I can't read it either. The brain is like a compost pile. It can process most stuff but not everything.
Once I seen something if film or real , you can’t Un see it . If it’s reading it’s my mind so I can imagine.
Re extreme films, an interesting book is Censored: The Story of Film Censorship in Britain by Tom Dewe Mathews. He wrote in 1994: “Today, Britain possesses the most rigorous film censorship system in the western world.” Most of my film viewing was done in the period prior to that and it was extremely frustrating.
I have Irreversible in my library and watched it once. It is very disturbing, but I love the telling of the story in reverse style of film. Very similar to Memento. With quite a twist in the end....
I’m not someone who likes to purposefully disturb myself. Like you I have enjoyed horror films for decades and now horror novels but I think more for the thrill they provide than the grotesque aspect of them. Therefore I haven’t read many disturbing books. I would say the most disturbing one I’ve read is “Joy Ride” by Jack Ketchum. I also have “The Girl Next Door” by him as well as the DVD based on the true story but have yet to read the book or watch the film yet but I do want to.
Have you read A Little Life yet? Or is that on your list to read for this project? I would love to hear your thoughts on it.
Yes, I agree with the books being easier to deal with than films. I just finished reading Found after hearing about the movie. But after reading the book, I will never bring myself to watch the movie. Possibly the most disturbing book I've ever read.
In the Miso Soup by Ryu Murakami is a pretty disturbing book. I read it 6-7 years ago and I still think about it occasionally.
I feel the same way about disturbing movies. I really don't want to watch them, but I don't have a problem with reading disturbing books.
Have you read Audition? It's also very memorable, as is the film.
What’s impressive is that Miso Soup isn’t even Ryu’s most disturbing book.
@@kurtjensen4661 I haven't read it, but I watched the movie. At the time I didn't know it was based on a book.
@@DuncanMcCurdie I haven't read anything else by him, but I definitely believe you.😁
Henry is a brilliant movie, but yes, very intense. A Serbian Film was recommended to me on an internet thread, but I turned it off a quarter of the way through. I have a very strong stomach, but I could not handle that. After hearing what happens later on, I am glad I turned it off.
Serbian Film is just schlock - part of the torture porn brigade, purely childish how far can I push.
I wonder if that was at the Arts Cinema in Cambridge. Small venue but they had some great films before general release. Watched a few midnight showings there back in the day.
It was indeed! The sight of many teenage film adventures for me, including my first 18(at the cinema) - Sammy and Rosie Get Laid
@@CriminOllyBlog I'll bet that was not quite what you hoped it would be!
Olly, I’ve just spent the last 20 minutes or so trying to find out what the disturbing scene is in The Melting.😂 I am absolutely desperate to know. Is there any way you can spoil it somewhere hidden for us?
Ha! TBH I wouldn't even want to type out what happens. And at least some of the impact of it relies on the build up and the fact you know the characters well by that point
Ooh. I loved My Dark Vanessa. Read it like two months ago.
My confidentiality improves with every video.
Did you read Scanlines? It was promoted to me as disturbing... but I found it to be just a basic horror story. More well-written than I expected, somewhat scary and a bit unsettling, but definitely not "most disturbing" territory, at least for me. I'd recommend it, but not hype it as anything more than a good, clever little horror novella. But these things are so subjective, it's so hard to tell how others might be effected.
have you read gulag archipelago based on true events? i really want to but its hella long😭
I don't blame you for not watching Irreversible. I've seen it once and will NEVER watch it again. It's horrific and completely unnecessary. Same goes for the French film 'Martyrs.' Never again 🤢.
Found your comments on disturbing movies very interesting Olly and I agree that i dont have much interest in watching horrible movies despite loving horror fiction and horror movies. Perhaps its due to the immediacy of cinema and the inability to look away that makes it feel more gratuitous. Irreversible (which you mention and I wouldn't really recommend) lingers on the disturbing scene for too long, daring the viewer to look away and because the film is told backwards this is its denouement with no redemption. However, its still trying to say something whereas I'm not sure films such as Last House on the Left, I spit on your grave or the girl next door are doing anything more than trying to shock and repulse. I would defintely recommend Climax from the same director as Irreversible though, if you've never seen it
I think Hogg is by far the most disturbing book i have read to date. I still cant really process it yet, even though it has stuck with me to this day. Re disturbing movies, I think Once were Warriors was one where a large part of the audience left part way through, I dont think they expected to be confronted with the level of violence it portrayed, its probably pretty tame compare to what you can watch these days. Im curious, how do you reset after reading a disturbing book? Go well Olly.
I remember seeing "Once Were Warriors" in the theater as part of my early toe-dip into a love of indie films. Some scenes were VERY upsetting, especially because I was maybe only 17 or 18 years old (and very inexperienced in the ways of the world) when I saw it. In this same period (same indie theater) I also saw "Spanking the Monkey," which was utterly disturbing in a wholly different way. (Incest never seemed like it could be a real thing--and then here was this very "normal" portrayal of mother & adult son in these very particular circumstances.) As a woman, I don't think I can ever bring myself to watch "Irreversible," but I did love "Raw" because the female protagonist has agency in that film despite its disturbing content (plus, great female director in her debut outing). However, the most upsetting film I think I've ever seen is "An American Crime" (based on the real-life Sylvia Likens story). Horrific child abuse is beyond my comprehension and not something I care to see depicted. Ever. It's too much. Same reason I could never stand to watch the Netflix documentary series "The Trials of Gabriel Fernandez."
Interesting. It's the exact opposite for me. Reading a disturbing book haunts me far more because the images are created in my own mind. And I can't simply look away or through my fingers (yes, even at 47 I occasionally do that) and still follow the movie through the sound of the scene or the blurry image I see through my fingers 😂.
It's a matter of taste if someone wants to watch that stuff. But as long as it's all fake and acting, I think everything should be allowed.
There were a few books however with taboo themes that I couldn't finish, like "My absolute darling". Of course many books could never be turned into movies, like most of what De Sade ever wrote (the movies have been mostly toned down quite a bit).
Apologies if I already mentioned this film here, but it keeps coming to mind when you talk about disturbing films. Berberian Sound Studio made me so uneasy that I had to break it into about five separate viewings. And there were no violent visuals to speak of, just sounds and suggestion and a suffocating kind of suspense. Toby Jones was the lead and he was brilliant.
If you had I missed it. I’d not heard of that film but if looks really interesting - Toby Jones is great
@@CriminOllyBlog I think this one might be ok for you. 🤷♀️
Berberian Sound Studio is amazing. I saw it in the cinema on its release. Definitely one to watch on the best sound system you can.
@@DuncanMcCurdie I had some pretty good headphones, but to be in a good theatre and see it without any break in the escalating tension would be next level. 👍
I would recommend all of Peter Strickland films - lots of socio-psychology going on. Their limited budget is often on show unfortunately, but he's definitely spinning gold.
I couldn't put down The Melting . It truly is disturbing.
chocolate covered marmalade (Salo) is pretty disturbing.
If you really want to be messed with, check out Succulent Prey by Wrath James White
Pink Flamingos
I'm the same - i can read any disturbing book, but I can even watch a run-of-the-mill horror movie - I cannot fathom blood and gore on a screen, but I love reading about it. Go figure.
Interesting subject. I don't understand why anyone would write or read this type of literature, shows the current state of human society which has not progressed from the perversion of religion
I’m not sure what could be more disturbing than Blood Meridian which I’m currently reading.
That was definitely heavy going
My Dark Vanessa was too realistic for me to finish.
It is definitely a hard book
bur i liked it so much ugh. i feel like a psycho rn🤣
2666 by Jorge Bolaño
Sharp Objects is very good. Disturbing for a thriller and well written.
Yeah that one was great!
Quick question: how sexually graphic should a modern thriller be: PG13, R, NC17, XXX?
Depends on the story really
I read Earthlings by Sayaka Murata. I thought it was pretty disturbing.
Thank you!
I know you get zillions of book referrals but may I recommend something witty and sweet to cleanse your reading palate? The Xanth series by Piers Anthony is absolutely charming and soul lifting!
Ha! Weirdly I just filmed a video the other day where I talk about maybe trading the first book in the series soon!
Sounds like destiny to me! ❤️
If you haven't seen Salo you can live without ever doing so. It's a piece of shit. Most films of this sort which go out of their way to be self-conscously "transgressive" while maintaining that they're trying to make some serious artistic statement tend to be pieces of shit. Same goes for Irreversible, which I DESPISED. The soundtrack for that film infamously included (for the first half hour or so) a very low-frequency noise of the sort they use to disperse crowds (sort of a sound weapon thing), and it worked on me; if the director had been in the cinema when I saw it, I would've beaten him to death. (Once the noise stopped, I calmed down and would've settled for GBH.) As for Henry, yeah, not a fan of that either, just thought it was vacuous. Mind you, I suspect it might at least have been more impactful on the big screen as opposed to the ho-hum copy I found on YT.
Salo is a well made film but l-o-n-g. It has artistic moments and logic to some stylistic choices
They still should have given you some credit. At least we all here know the truth, don’t we? 😉
We do!
Punched in the face ! Sounds more like being in the stands of a Tottenham v Chelsea game. ⚽
Wow! I'm first!
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
You’ll need a lie down now.
You honestly aren't missing much by not watching Irreversible. It is disturbing, but it's cheap-disturbing. It's not hard to be vile by carrying on a really miserable screaming-and-crying rape scene for like 10 minutes. It's horrible but there's not really much point to its horribleness other than shock value. There's some nasty gore in a wretchedly-filmed club full of obnoxious noise and lighting that does all the heavy lifting for the "disturbing" part (watching someone eat pancakes under that light/sound assault would be "disturbing"). Most of the rest of it is boring and pretentious (even the disturbing parts are kinda boring, to be honest, because they're trying too hard), and there's really no reason to make the film go in reverse order other than to add an air of "art" to something that is decidedly not art and would be dismissed immediately otherwise.
Gaspar Noe is one of the most overrated filmmakers on the planet, don't ever trust anyone who tells you differently, they're just afraid admit his work is just trash, or they like any film that has lots of drugs in it. He's benefited by being "shocking," kind of like Takashi Miike did (although Miike CAN make a good film when he wants to, you just have to weed through a lot of "trying too hard" films to find 'em... he's gotten better since he quit being so insecure about his talent and laid off the crutch).
Noé is not overrated. The most overrated director currently is Villeneuve who made those two horribly boring Dune movies that I wasted my time on, believing the 2nd one might be better 😂. On the other hand, I re-watched the dance scene in Climax about 4 times at least. Enter the Void was also pretty good. Irreversible was boring honestly apart from the one shocking scene.
I'd say Noé is a bit of hit and miss but far from overrated.
A miserable rape scene . . . What other type is there??