27:00 its obvious Andy has never ridden a bus or any public system. The amount of times I've seen people doing weird shit like singing or acting unbelievably goofy towards a stranger is staggering.
wether its when I was in highschool, heading downtown to bars, or early work life. Ive spent alot of time on public transit and ur right...You see some wild shit
Also seems he doesn't take severe mental illness seriously, I'm Schizophrenic and can confirm that I think, say, and do some very bizarre things, Saying someone in a Psychotic Break is "Unrealistic", then you don't believe its a thing at all.
I think Nick has the idea behind the movie 100%, and the other guys are way too caught up on the negative repertoire this movie faced, and not the focus Phillips was going for; how capitalism will always lead to classism, and how classism will always lead to those who are less fortunate to resort to rioting and revolution because of these tensions. It’s also a chilling tale of how mental illness gone untreated and surrounded by a society who has no empathy or sympathy for such individuals leads these individuals to commit atrocities. Nick nails it explaining how Phillips needed to disguise this story in a comic book movie wrapper to get it out to a wider audience w a bigger budget since people love comic book movies, and they are extremely familiar w the joker .
Agreed, Nick was the only one who seemed to interpret and appreciate this as a standalone film, rather than obsessing over how it does or doesn't fit into their existing interpretation of the Joker character. Including this in the Batman in-review series is, in itself, a comical misinterpretation of the film.
When it comes to cinematography, I'm always amazed no one has discussed the visual significance of stairs and elevators in this movie. Every time Arthur tries to do 'the right thing', expresses regret or desires normalcy he goes up stairs or goes up the elevator. When he walks up the stairs (tiredly) to his mother, when he meets Zazie Beets and her kid in the elevator, when he is scared and flees the subway after killing the three guys (regret signifies guilt and a still working moral compass) and lastly the panic he feels when he runs up the stairs to evade the cops (or a guilty conscious?). Every time Arthur's psyche descends into madness, there's also a literal visual descend. The imagined crowd scene with Murray, him going down the few flights of stairs when confronting Thomas Wayne, running down the stairway after stealing the files, him leaving work for the last time, when he goes down the elevator after completing his transformation into the Joker, when he dances down the stairs during, visually revelling in his own madness.
Honestly, this analysis is far too smart for this panel. Only Nick would be able to notice this stuff. "Visually reveling in his own madness".. Extremely well said!
KFIR in Review for this week: 1) Nick - hands down the most adequate take on the film; 2) Greg - for being the most open minded of the group; 3) Kevin - for having a nuanced view of the film, even if I disagree with him; 4) Andy - has revealed that he doesn't ride the bus; not convinced he was paying attention; and 5) with a bullet, Tim - "needs more Transformers/Vin Diesel/get hype" And the great thing is that on the next film, the scores could flip completely. The wheel of taste keeps turning. Loved the show!
How on earth can Kevin put this all the way down at 11? The acting, cinematography and score in the film were fantastic. There were some minor problems (Arthur imagining his gf was telegraphed and seeing the Wayne parents murdered was unnecessary) but overall this was a great win for DC.
Now that this is all said and done, my list would be: 1. The Dark Knight 2. Batman Begins 3. Mask of the Phantasm 4. Joker 5. The LEGO Batman Movie 6. The Dark Knight Rises 7. Batman (1989) 8. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice 9. Batman Returns 10. Batman Forever 11. Batman (1966) 12. Batman and Robin 13. Catwoman
This film was great. Such a different take on a comic book film. Can't comprehend how you'd pick Lego Batman above this -- do Tim and Kevin just not like anything that isn't "Get hyped" MCU stuff
I've always liked Nick and I do appreciate the other guys input but man I feel like Nick just speaks so much facts and truths whether it's in their "In Review" series or KF podcast. #DaddyNickyDaBest
Its crazy to see this movie ranked so low. The reasoning for it is baffling too. If it wasn't a "batman" movie then it shouldn't have been included in "BATMAN in review" and if we're not going by how good a batman movie it was then it should have been ranked much higher. If anyone ever wants to absolutely discredit their opinion on movies just lead by saying "I think Lego Batman is a better movie than Joker".
Martin's main producer Emma Tillinger produced Joker and The Irishman in the same year. She has produced most of Scorsese's films. That is the remaining Scorsese connection to the film. I was trepidatious of this film and I think it is close to a masterpiece. Such an incredible mark of cinema. The score is haunting. The acting is astounding. The cinematography is gorgeous.
@@Darwinfeeshy its just sooo perfect Joker. A touch of humor on top of sickening and absolutely terrifying, just not a scene that will ever leave my mind
I’m happy to see this movie have so much of an impact on the comic book genre. And I’m really excited to see more experimental, elseworld DC movies. I heard of WB wanting to have a Mr. Freeze origin story, that would be cool. (Pun intended)
I was very wary when they announced this stand alone "origin" film, especially after Catwoman, but the King of Comedy/Taxi Driver style take really worked, and made it stand out from the Batman films :D
To make sure more people see this: Pathological Laughter II (Pseudobulbar Affect) Please look up the UA-cam videos of the people who actually suffer from this uncontrollable laughing. They are meant to create awareness of this illness as these people actually get beaten up a lot due to their laugh. Joaquin really nailed that laugh in this movie, made me look it up and learn about this illness as well. Thus I would say the movie did create an impact of mental illness awareness. I am little upset that Tim did not cover so topics in facts, he could have done a real good and provided more awareness to himself and Kinda Funny audience, instead just focused on the surface level topics as usual.
@@stonehorn4641 I noticed how he told Greg not to mention that the cool song that he likes was from a convicted pedophile. I have been following Colin, Greg and Nick from IGN days.
@@stonehorn4641 Chicago Bulls Theme used on the now famous steps scene in Joker. Greg mentions it when he talks about the scene and also mentions about the controversy of the song creator, Tim says I don't want to know
As someone who has multiple family members depends on state/county service i can assure you there are more social workers like the woman Arthur was seeing than you might think. Broken promises and hearts are something you get used to when dealing the system.
Yeah, I've had my states Mental Health Hotline hang up on me, was literally 1 question. "Insurance?" "No" *Click*. The system doesn't care about the Mentally Ill, I know first hand as I have Schizophrenia.
I think this is the best comic book movie of all time. I still love the Dark Knight, Mask of the Phantasm, and Watchmen, but this is just a hair ahead of those.
I think Arthur put his fingers in Bruce's mouth and he allowed it because in a movie about mental health, Bruce seemed to me to have all the tell tale signs of a kid with autism. Which, would make sense for someone who becomes the Lazer focused genius with no desire to have any type of social life. Bruce doesn't react AT ALL to anything. Even his parents murders he just blank faced takes in the information without speaking, the way that a child with autism interacts with the world.
Forgive my running commentary as I watch. How can anyone say the film loses it when the down and out people of Gotham idolize him? look at our current day events. Desperate people don't always make good choices in who to believe in. Many times they lets it exacerbate their worst instincts and behaviors. Look at who people are idolizing and following, saying they would die for in our world, right now. We may not want that to be the way things work, we may hope or expect better but sometimes they do. Arthur doesn't have Agency. Joker does. Thats kind of the point. also, one of the biggest mistakes we make with mental illness is expecting the agency we ourselves are capable of from people who aren't in a place to have that capability. "Oh, you're sad? Think happy thoughts!" As someone who struggles with mental illness, Nick is on point. Don't dismiss the light movies like this can shine on a subject that people are dismissive, ignorant, unaware or uncomfortable with. This film evokes the feeling we can all have at times, when we are not used to dealing directly with people who are suffering mentally. Some people want to help and don't know how, the behaviors of people struggling can be hard to watch or experience in proximity so we walk away or pretend it's not happening... escape the situation as fast as possible. It tests the current state of our humanity.
I mean this movie is basically a reboot of The King of Comedy set in the DC universe. And of course instead of using a "no name" character like Scorsese's Rupert Pupkin, they easily applied it to Joker to reach a wider audience. Not to take away from the score, cinematography, or performances. I'd just like to compare the two to see if this was adapted to spread more awareness or send a different message about mental illness.
I came to say the same. It's a well made film, and Phoenix gives a phenomenal performance, but it is entirely derivative of much, much better work. It's not even that Phillips took inspiration from King of Comedy, there are parts of this film that are just straight up lifted wholesale from King of Comedy. There's a thin line between homage and ripoff, unfortunately Joker falls into the latter more often than not.
@@GeneFJacket I have seen all three movies and I don't really see how Joker ripped them off. I see it was inspired by both films, but not how it stole from them. I was hoping someone could explain how and why it's ripping them off.
Nick was the only one with good takes on this movie, sorry to hear it didn't land the same way for everyone else. Comics, DC, and previous interpretations of the Joker completely aside, I would consider this one of the top 20 movies of the last decade, period.
It’s so hard watching you guys rip apart a movie I love. But I’m trying to sit through this to not be in a echo chamber. Thanx nic for sticking up for it. As far as some of your concerns of “joker is supposed to be a genius”, read up on people who are bipolar and schizophrenic to see how their medications flatten their creativity and personality, and what would happen if you took those meds away. That will address your concerns.
I too doubted that this movie was going to be any good, I was excited at first but when I realized that it was an origin story and not tied to the DCEU, I was so confused on why and how will this even work. But man this movie blew me away, it wasn’t like any comic book or superhero movie I have ever seen, mainly because it wasn’t. Unlike Catwoman, Joker respected the source material, but added a more dark themed and realistic take on the Batman mythos. It proves that you don’t always need a cinematic universe or a blockbuster action movie to tell a unique story within the comic book genre.
I think this movie is very much a 'different strokes' scenario where it's pretty polarizing for people, love it or hate it, etc -- one thing in particular though, from this Review that really isolated that for me, is when Tim talks about the psychiatrist saying 'nobody cares about you' to Arthur after the funding dries up and Tim saying that's unrealistic... as someone who has been on both sides of that kind of stark honesty, that read pretty authentic to me. Sometimes you run up against people who just will not empathize whatsoever with your particular plight, and through a different perspective, sometimes falling on your own hard times gives you the 'fuck it' energy to say things you wouldn't otherwise say. I feel as though I might envy people who think those interactions never occur in our world. I very much took that scene as her losing her own hope in the system, in society, in people... and then finally coming over to Arthur's side, so to speak, and say "Yeah you know what, you were right, everything is bullshit, everything sucks, nobody cares about you, nobody is going to help you, and even if I personally wanted to, I no longer have the capacity or resources to do so." Some people, like the way I think Tim interpreted this scene, will regard that as so wildly lacking in empathy that it comes off ingenuine. Others might see it as so fully empathetic that the thin veneer of social mores dissipates and she is just giving him the 'hard truths' about the world. To me, it felt as though she's believes she is helping in some way by letting the facade fully fall away, without realizing it's actually doing more harm than good. That scene very much felt like the latter, at least for me personally. But again, different strokes.
Well said. It's a powerful scene that really highlights the failings of the american healthcare system. If Arthur had a friend and some medication, the ending of this movie would've been wildly different.
It seems tim has no idea how badly we treat the mentally ill in the USA . You would think he would have a clue living in San Francisco and it’s homeless problem. Many of those homeless are mentally ill people that have fallen thru the cracks . Especially since Reagan shut down the state mental hospitals and it isn’t a wonder homelessness has grown exponentially since then
12. Catwoman 11. Batman Returns 10. Batman & Robin 9. Batman (1966) 8. Batman (1989) 7. Batman Forever 6. The Dark Knight Rises 5. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm 4. Batman Begins 3. The LEGO Batman Movie 2. Joker 1. The Dark Knight
It’s clear that unless a comic book movie is The Dark Knight level, then certainly members of KF just don’t like it or give it a chance. Yes this movie has flaws, but the way certain guys talk about it is just ignorant and they’re finding reasons to hate on it for no reason
Honestly this is a really well made movie and aside from the weird culture that cultivated around it I think this is a really special movie that really does something different for the genre and not every movie should be like this but it's really cool to see that a movie in the comic genre can go for something so different from the norm and succeed at what it was trying to do.
For me personally Nick nailed this review & spoke 1000% to what I felt overall. Great great movie imo! Really hit me in many ways especially with the mental illness aspects.
Scorsese was originally going to executive produce but after he met Todd Phillips he realized Todd was an industry veteran and that he didn't necessarily need Scorsese's help. They were in a Hollywood Reporter roundtable discussion where Scorsese talked about this.
Personally I still enjoy the killing jokes origin take. I like that Joker was a normal guy with a wife struggling to make ends meet. A guy trying to just do something he loves but is shit on by the world constantly day in and day out. An just like that “one bad day” makes him snap.
Nick got this movie so spot on I'm always surprised when people have opinions like the rest of the guys do just cause I see the movie like Nick. But Nick you're departed opinion is still horribly wrong.
There's something I really don't like about this film that I can't quite put my finger on. Has a great performance, amazing music, good direction. But something about it feels...hollow? Like there's nothing much going on behind all that great stuff...
Inspiration for Jokers story is Bernie Goetz. Man who was mugged on subway in 80s NY that shot and killed three muggers. Netflix has a great episode on the case in Trial By Media. The media and public's image of a vigilante folk hero was def the story Phillips used for inspiration. Surprised me watching the doc how dead on the same real life story is. I can't remember how the case ended, whether he was found guilty or not guilty , if his retelling of what happened was true.
The funny part about that song (Rock and Roll Part 2) is that it fits with what we just learned about his childhood. Gary Glitter abusing kids goes along with Arthur being abused as a kid by the mom's boyfriend.
A very different In Review episode - love the in-depth discussions you guys had. I personally don't agree with Andy and Tim's takes on the film but I can see where they are coming from.
It’s badly written is Joker. It’s a film about the state of the political climate of that time and how it compares/contrasts with the fictional Gotham of the 1980s but the writer got most of the details from our time wrong. The only thing that continues to the end without becoming wronged is the fact that Arthur is a person who wants to tell jokes, that’s the only thematic line that connects from start to finish.
Its really nice to know Tim and Andy don't believe the Mental Illness is serious. And that its "Unrealistic" and "Would Never Happen". It just makes me, a diagnosed schizophrenic lose respect for them as they are part of the reason why Mental Health has a Stigma. Big respect to Nick for his understanding and Insight.
I respect that you enjoy this film but as someone with a mental illness (suicidal depression) I find the way this film generically uses the idea of “mental illness” insulting, it really bothers me. It’s hollow and performative. Its reductive but I describe it as mental illness “blackface”. It appropriates stereotypes of generic mental illness tropes as opposed to exploring the effects of a real illness on a real human being in these situations.
@@langleymneely I've never seen the movie, but I have Schizophrenia and feel the opposite. That's really interesting honestly and everyone is gonna take what they do from it. Your thoughts are just as valid as mine, but we aren't chalking our conditions as "Unrealistic" "Nobody Does That" is a bit shallow. This doesn't make me think lower of them I'll still consume their content daily as always.
You are grossly misrepresenting my words. The only thing I was saying was unrealistic and would never happen is a licensed therapist telling a patient to give up. -Tim
"Bro" and you expect me to take you seriously? Here's the thing, I will voice my opinion. If you or anyone else doesn't like it that's your right and I'm open to discussion. If you like the others want to demean me for voicing a differing opinion then I don't care what you have to say. I have to deal with this everyday, I don't need to listen to Tim say anything he's not my Psychiatrist who is board certified and has a degree on the subject. I really love how you'll blindly defend someone with zero actual knowledge on a subject, but feel its appropriate to pile on to someone dealing with subject first hand. You proved yourself to be a scumbag. Congrats on that.
Song is written by Gary glitter and was the opening song for the bulls during introductions for years until it came out in the late 90s early 2000s what Gary glitter did .
Even though I 100% disagreed with Kev dogs opinion on the film, either have him on the show or don’t. Idk if it’s like an audio issue or something but him constantly getting talked over and ignored every in review he’s on is weird.
I dont understand why this movie is considered important. It uses old tropes of "insane violent mentally ill patient" to say that if mental health goes untreated it gets worse, a message that I assume everyone already knew???
You guys look at it the wrong way. It's not that this is an elevated "Superhero Film" it's that these types of stories can only be told within a franchise now and be successful. Yeah it's a retelling of taxi driver and the king of comedy but why did this make a billion and those didn't. THE TITLE AND THE MAKEUP
My hot take (I guess it's a hot take? IDK) is that this movie is all bark and no bite. It wants you to think that it's more important and about more thematically than it actually is. I mean, don't get me wrong I appreciate that it's trying to be about something (which is more than I can give most comic book movies) but it's honestly trying to be about too much, and succeeding at none of it. It's a movie about classism, the treatment of the mentally ill, society's treatment of socially awkward people (which I personally feel should've been the main focus), and like twenty other things. I admire it's scope but in trying to be jack of all trades it ends up being a master of none. It also doesn't help that Parasite was also about classism, came out the same year, and was a million times better than this.
The acting carries it hard, because the acting is phenomenal. But whatever they tried to say, they failed, because there is really absolutely nothing to take away from this movie other than "man that guy sure was crazy". As a Joker origin story, and nothing else, I think its good. And if the themes of classism and treatment of mental illness were only there to color Gotham, then I think it would succeed at that. But that final line before Joker kills Murray (and a couple other scenes) makes it really fucking obvious that they really really want to have a message. I think the movie is very well made, but its hard to divorce that from their failed intentions. If they actually didnt focus so much on their themes, and just told the same story with those in the background, I would actually love this movie, for everything else it does right.
What Tim thinks in terms of therapist needing to better is a very American point of view. Mental health is not nearly taken as seriously around the world. Noone believes in it where I'm from. I have had mental issues all my life and noone has ever cared about it.
@@Darwinfeeshy I agree. It's obvious that Todd Phillips was inspired both films, but I never really understood the argument that Joker is ripping off both films.
Its interesting that they don't seem to see the parallels of Joker in the movie being held up on this pedestal and people in real life putting Joker up on a pedestal. Here's this child murdering anarchy approving psychopath.... that is consistently in the Top 10 Halloween costumes in the world every year. This symbol of mental illness and despair and murder and abuse that we as a SO-CIETY have lifted up as this great thing. And then when mass shooters and mentally unwell people become murderers and kill and maim people for all the reasons that the Joker does, we shine a huge spotlight on them and give them the platform for their messages that they desperately hoped their murder spree would give them, and then condemn them for what they did as if we weren't the ones that built the world that told them this was what they should do if they wanted to be heard or be a legend that lives forever like Joker. The movie almost condemns the audience for only seeing the sexy version of Joker and not caring about the mental illness that or the consequences for what makes someone become that.
I think they’re mistaking the song. The song that in the joker is absolutely synonymous with the NBA it’s the song they always played when coming out of a timeout
I actually really like this movie. It's got its issues, but the visuals are A+ and there are some rad "Joker" moments. Nick's right. Arthur talking to the cops at the hospital is great cuz he has that cool line like fuck off n flicks the cigarette super smooth and the just faceplants is totally a Joker thing. And the whole scene where he kills the bald dude is like quintessential Joker. It's got murder, it's got laughter, it's got J man being unpredictable with the uncertainty of whether he's gonna kill them both, followed by the its-so-horrible-why-am-I-laughing thing of the little dude not being able to reach the chain. Getting super longwinded here, but i just really vibed with this version and how joaquin just melts into it once he puts on the full suit. The whole time I'm kinda Eh, I don't see Joker, but I'm still enjoying myself, but with the suit and green hair it just works. The train car scene with all the clown masks is another great one where he's doing the Joker thing, being clever on the fly to some degree, but also fumbling it a little. Seeing him behind the mask, seeing no expression, but he's kinda peeking around people like antsy for the subway doors to open felt a lot like the opening of Dark Knight. Also seeing the difference between him practicing his entrance in the living room, copying what he saw vs his actual one just feelin himself and crushing it, I thought was a cool little thing tl;dr i like. it good.
I'm glad we are so far out from the release that people can now call this a "good movie". It was so annoying people trying to tiptoe around saying this is a good movie because they were scared what this may do to people. Even for a bunch of people who say video games don't cause violence. But this movie would?
Not gonna lie... Kinda feels like they could have just done The Dark Knight trilogy during Nolan in Review and left it at that. Every other Batman episode has felt pretty negative, which is fine when you're having fun (DCEU, Transformers, Star Wars prequels), but it doesn't feel like they enjoyed reviewing this run, which is a bit disappointing. Looking forward to Karate Kid though! ($8 on Vudu btw)
Quality wise, I think this is the best Batman film..... well it doesn't actually have Batman in it, so it's the best film that stars a character from Batman.
Nick is on point that this type of movie on Mental illness would not have been made or got the attention that it should, had it not been a DC movie. Tim, Andy and Kevin are looking at this movie from the pure eyes of comic books, with geniuses level unrealistic expectations from such characters and not the characters the movie is trying to portray. Pathological Laughter II (Pseudobulbar Affect) Please look up the UA-cam videos of the people who actually suffer from this uncontrollable laughing. They are meant to create awareness of this illness as these people actually get beaten up a lot due to their laugh. Joaquin really nailed that laugh in this movie, made me look it up and learn about this illness as well. Thus I would say the movie did create an impact of mental illness awareness. I am little upset that Tim did not cover so topics in facts, he could have done a real good and provided more awareness to himself and Kinda Funny audience, instead just focused on the surface level topics as usual.
This is a terrible Batman film. No action, no gadgets and no funny one liners. 0/10.
Its not a Batman movie to begin with.
so basically kevin's take on this? ;)
@@mrecto5187 Bruh.
Y’all know he’s joking right
There were some funny one liners but you wouldn't get it
27:00 its obvious Andy has never ridden a bus or any public system. The amount of times I've seen people doing weird shit like singing or acting unbelievably goofy towards a stranger is staggering.
wether its when I was in highschool, heading downtown to bars, or early work life. Ive spent alot of time on public transit and ur right...You see some wild shit
He seems very sheltered in general.. Don't think he has seen much outside the Internet
Exactly I can tell countless stories of weird or sick shit on trains or buses
Yeah I see that shit on a weekly basis on public transit. He seems very sheltered.
Also seems he doesn't take severe mental illness seriously, I'm Schizophrenic and can confirm that I think, say, and do some very bizarre things, Saying someone in a Psychotic Break is "Unrealistic", then you don't believe its a thing at all.
Just wanted to say Nick was fantastic in this episode. He really spoke to my perspective on the movie.
Yes! It really shocked me, when I usually disagree with his takes. Nick had a really based take in this one.
Is must suck having shitty perspectives then
I think Nick has the idea behind the movie 100%, and the other guys are way too caught up on the negative repertoire this movie faced, and not the focus Phillips was going for; how capitalism will always lead to classism, and how classism will always lead to those who are less fortunate to resort to rioting and revolution because of these tensions. It’s also a chilling tale of how mental illness gone untreated and surrounded by a society who has no empathy or sympathy for such individuals leads these individuals to commit atrocities. Nick nails it explaining how Phillips needed to disguise this story in a comic book movie wrapper to get it out to a wider audience w a bigger budget since people love comic book movies, and they are extremely familiar w the joker .
I agree 100% and how we treat the mentally ill badly and he wanted help and still couldn’t get it
Agreed, Nick was the only one who seemed to interpret and appreciate this as a standalone film, rather than obsessing over how it does or doesn't fit into their existing interpretation of the Joker character. Including this in the Batman in-review series is, in itself, a comical misinterpretation of the film.
When it comes to cinematography, I'm always amazed no one has discussed the visual significance of stairs and elevators in this movie. Every time Arthur tries to do 'the right thing', expresses regret or desires normalcy he goes up stairs or goes up the elevator. When he walks up the stairs (tiredly) to his mother, when he meets Zazie Beets and her kid in the elevator, when he is scared and flees the subway after killing the three guys (regret signifies guilt and a still working moral compass) and lastly the panic he feels when he runs up the stairs to evade the cops (or a guilty conscious?).
Every time Arthur's psyche descends into madness, there's also a literal visual descend. The imagined crowd scene with Murray, him going down the few flights of stairs when confronting Thomas Wayne, running down the stairway after stealing the files, him leaving work for the last time, when he goes down the elevator after completing his transformation into the Joker, when he dances down the stairs during, visually revelling in his own madness.
Honestly, this analysis is far too smart for this panel. Only Nick would be able to notice this stuff. "Visually reveling in his own madness".. Extremely well said!
KFIR in Review for this week:
1) Nick - hands down the most adequate take on the film;
2) Greg - for being the most open minded of the group;
3) Kevin - for having a nuanced view of the film, even if I disagree with him;
4) Andy - has revealed that he doesn't ride the bus; not convinced he was paying attention; and
5) with a bullet, Tim - "needs more Transformers/Vin Diesel/get hype"
And the great thing is that on the next film, the scores could flip completely. The wheel of taste keeps turning. Loved the show!
How on earth can Kevin put this all the way down at 11? The acting, cinematography and score in the film were fantastic. There were some minor problems (Arthur imagining his gf was telegraphed and seeing the Wayne parents murdered was unnecessary) but overall this was a great win for DC.
Part of what's interesting about these in reviews is that you get to see how different biases affect perspectives on films
Now that this is all said and done, my list would be:
1. The Dark Knight
2. Batman Begins
3. Mask of the Phantasm
4. Joker
5. The LEGO Batman Movie
6. The Dark Knight Rises
7. Batman (1989)
8. Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice
9. Batman Returns
10. Batman Forever
11. Batman (1966)
12. Batman and Robin
13. Catwoman
This film was great. Such a different take on a comic book film. Can't comprehend how you'd pick Lego Batman above this -- do Tim and Kevin just not like anything that isn't "Get hyped" MCU stuff
Yeah. Probably. Nobody is required to respect movies that take themselves seriously. Some people want to get hyped watching a comic book movie.
I mean he likes Fast and the Furious and that should tell you everything you need to know about his film taste 😂😂
I've always liked Nick and I do appreciate the other guys input but man I feel like Nick just speaks so much facts and truths whether it's in their "In Review" series or KF podcast. #DaddyNickyDaBest
I can't believe no one said "Tim, can you introduce me as Joker?" Excellent film!
Its crazy to see this movie ranked so low. The reasoning for it is baffling too. If it wasn't a "batman" movie then it shouldn't have been included in "BATMAN in review" and if we're not going by how good a batman movie it was then it should have been ranked much higher.
If anyone ever wants to absolutely discredit their opinion on movies just lead by saying "I think Lego Batman is a better movie than Joker".
Martin's main producer Emma Tillinger produced Joker and The Irishman in the same year. She has produced most of Scorsese's films. That is the remaining Scorsese connection to the film. I was trepidatious of this film and I think it is close to a masterpiece. Such an incredible mark of cinema. The score is haunting. The acting is astounding. The cinematography is gorgeous.
Joker is one of my favourite films of all time, glad to see yall talking about it!
Man this movie when i saw it i theatre shook me to my core, that scene where he kills his coworker is one of the greatest scenes ive ever seen.
Joker shooting Murray was very gut wrenching to me because the gunshot was so loud in theaters, I felt like I was actual watching a real life murder.
Especially with his reaction to the dwarf. He's like, "Nah, you're cool, you can go."
@@Darwinfeeshy its just sooo perfect Joker. A touch of humor on top of sickening and absolutely terrifying, just not a scene that will ever leave my mind
Yes, all of Kinda Funny should watch Atlanta. It's great and now is a perfect time to catch up on the first two seasons released.
I second this
I remember seeing this in theaters opening night and was blown away. Such a great movie
I’m happy to see this movie have so much of an impact on the comic book genre. And I’m really excited to see more experimental, elseworld DC movies. I heard of WB wanting to have a Mr. Freeze origin story, that would be cool. (Pun intended)
Yea I was surprised when they said peor hated it, I thought everyone loved it lol. Everyone I know does.
When Greg does these plot recaps is he doing them all from memory !
I was very wary when they announced this stand alone "origin" film, especially after Catwoman, but the King of Comedy/Taxi Driver style take really worked, and made it stand out from the Batman films :D
Nick you killed it in this episode !
Around 40 minutes in and Nick is absolutely killing it this episode! I'm gonna have to use his talking points when next discussing this film
To make sure more people see this:
Pathological Laughter II (Pseudobulbar Affect)
Please look up the UA-cam videos of the people who actually suffer from this uncontrollable laughing. They are meant to create awareness of this illness as these people actually get beaten up a lot due to their laugh. Joaquin really nailed that laugh in this movie, made me look it up and learn about this illness as well. Thus I would say the movie did create an impact of mental illness awareness.
I am little upset that Tim did not cover so topics in facts, he could have done a real good and provided more awareness to himself and Kinda Funny audience, instead just focused on the surface level topics as usual.
@@stonehorn4641 I noticed how he told Greg not to mention that the cool song that he likes was from a convicted pedophile.
I have been following Colin, Greg and Nick from IGN days.
@@stonehorn4641 Chicago Bulls Theme used on the now famous steps scene in Joker.
Greg mentions it when he talks about the scene and also mentions about the controversy of the song creator, Tim says I don't want to know
A whole lot of "not wanting to open eyes to truth", with this review.
As someone who has multiple family members depends on state/county service i can assure you there are more social workers like the woman Arthur was seeing than you might think. Broken promises and hearts are something you get used to when dealing the system.
Yeah, I've had my states Mental Health Hotline hang up on me, was literally 1 question. "Insurance?" "No" *Click*. The system doesn't care about the Mentally Ill, I know first hand as I have Schizophrenia.
Love all you guys! You have helped keep 2020 somewhat “normal” for a lot of my commute. Thanks guys!
I think this is the best comic book movie of all time. I still love the Dark Knight, Mask of the Phantasm, and Watchmen, but this is just a hair ahead of those.
Oof
I think Arthur put his fingers in Bruce's mouth and he allowed it because in a movie about mental health, Bruce seemed to me to have all the tell tale signs of a kid with autism. Which, would make sense for someone who becomes the Lazer focused genius with no desire to have any type of social life. Bruce doesn't react AT ALL to anything. Even his parents murders he just blank faced takes in the information without speaking, the way that a child with autism interacts with the world.
I thought the Impractical Jokers movie would be a bit more lighthearted.
Arthur is today's big loser, so as punishment he'll be moving to Gotham!
Catwoman and Joker are the Frances Conroy Batman villain-centered duology.
This film is nowhere near as controversial as people said it was.
The controversy was so stupid.
The controversy was as stupid as the film itself
Hiyooooo
Forgive my running commentary as I watch.
How can anyone say the film loses it when the down and out people of Gotham idolize him? look at our current day events.
Desperate people don't always make good choices in who to believe in. Many times they lets it exacerbate their worst instincts and behaviors.
Look at who people are idolizing and following, saying they would die for in our world, right now.
We may not want that to be the way things work, we may hope or expect better but sometimes they do.
Arthur doesn't have Agency.
Joker does. Thats kind of the point.
also, one of the biggest mistakes we make with mental illness is expecting the agency we ourselves are capable of from people who aren't in a place to have that capability.
"Oh, you're sad? Think happy thoughts!"
As someone who struggles with mental illness, Nick is on point. Don't dismiss the light movies like this can shine on a subject that people are dismissive, ignorant, unaware or uncomfortable with.
This film evokes the feeling we can all have at times, when we are not used to dealing directly with people who are suffering mentally. Some people want to help and don't know how, the behaviors of people struggling can be hard to watch or experience in proximity so we walk away or pretend it's not happening... escape the situation as fast as possible.
It tests the current state of our humanity.
Love Nick’s take on this.
I mean this movie is basically a reboot of The King of Comedy set in the DC universe. And of course instead of using a "no name" character like Scorsese's Rupert Pupkin, they easily applied it to Joker to reach a wider audience. Not to take away from the score, cinematography, or performances.
I'd just like to compare the two to see if this was adapted to spread more awareness or send a different message about mental illness.
I came to say the same. It's a well made film, and Phoenix gives a phenomenal performance, but it is entirely derivative of much, much better work. It's not even that Phillips took inspiration from King of Comedy, there are parts of this film that are just straight up lifted wholesale from King of Comedy. There's a thin line between homage and ripoff, unfortunately Joker falls into the latter more often than not.
@@GeneFJacket I see people make this claim all the time. Can you explain exactly what The Joker stole from King of Comedy?
@@ToothofaShark You're welcome to watch both and compare for yourself, or just google it, plenty of others have already broken it down.
@@GeneFJacket I have seen all three movies and I don't really see how Joker ripped them off. I see it was inspired by both films, but not how it stole from them. I was hoping someone could explain how and why it's ripping them off.
Nick was the only one with good takes on this movie, sorry to hear it didn't land the same way for everyone else. Comics, DC, and previous interpretations of the Joker completely aside, I would consider this one of the top 20 movies of the last decade, period.
I legit thought that Greg talking about walking into the wrong apartment was a bit
"There's a bunch of people and I don't know who they are so I didn't go"
Yeah, Andy that's kind of what parties are
It’s so hard watching you guys rip apart a movie I love. But I’m trying to sit through this to not be in a echo chamber. Thanx nic for sticking up for it.
As far as some of your concerns of “joker is supposed to be a genius”, read up on people who are bipolar and schizophrenic to see how their medications flatten their creativity and personality, and what would happen if you took those meds away. That will address your concerns.
I too doubted that this movie was going to be any good, I was excited at first but when I realized that it was an origin story and not tied to the DCEU, I was so confused on why and how will this even work. But man this movie blew me away, it wasn’t like any comic book or superhero movie I have ever seen, mainly because it wasn’t. Unlike Catwoman, Joker respected the source material, but added a more dark themed and realistic take on the Batman mythos. It proves that you don’t always need a cinematic universe or a blockbuster action movie to tell a unique story within the comic book genre.
I think this movie is very much a 'different strokes' scenario where it's pretty polarizing for people, love it or hate it, etc -- one thing in particular though, from this Review that really isolated that for me, is when Tim talks about the psychiatrist saying 'nobody cares about you' to Arthur after the funding dries up and Tim saying that's unrealistic... as someone who has been on both sides of that kind of stark honesty, that read pretty authentic to me. Sometimes you run up against people who just will not empathize whatsoever with your particular plight, and through a different perspective, sometimes falling on your own hard times gives you the 'fuck it' energy to say things you wouldn't otherwise say. I feel as though I might envy people who think those interactions never occur in our world.
I very much took that scene as her losing her own hope in the system, in society, in people... and then finally coming over to Arthur's side, so to speak, and say "Yeah you know what, you were right, everything is bullshit, everything sucks, nobody cares about you, nobody is going to help you, and even if I personally wanted to, I no longer have the capacity or resources to do so." Some people, like the way I think Tim interpreted this scene, will regard that as so wildly lacking in empathy that it comes off ingenuine. Others might see it as so fully empathetic that the thin veneer of social mores dissipates and she is just giving him the 'hard truths' about the world. To me, it felt as though she's believes she is helping in some way by letting the facade fully fall away, without realizing it's actually doing more harm than good. That scene very much felt like the latter, at least for me personally.
But again, different strokes.
Well said. It's a powerful scene that really highlights the failings of the american healthcare system. If Arthur had a friend and some medication, the ending of this movie would've been wildly different.
It seems tim has no idea how badly we treat the mentally ill in the USA .
You would think he would have a clue living in San Francisco and it’s homeless problem.
Many of those homeless are mentally ill people that have fallen thru the cracks .
Especially since Reagan shut down the state mental hospitals and it isn’t a wonder homelessness has grown exponentially since then
This is definitely not always the case but I’m like fully with Nick on this one.
12. Catwoman
11. Batman Returns
10. Batman & Robin
9. Batman (1966)
8. Batman (1989)
7. Batman Forever
6. The Dark Knight Rises
5. Batman: Mask of the Phantasm
4. Batman Begins
3. The LEGO Batman Movie
2. Joker
1. The Dark Knight
This movie is awesome. It deserved both oscars it won.
It’s clear that unless a comic book movie is The Dark Knight level, then certainly members of KF just don’t like it or give it a chance. Yes this movie has flaws, but the way certain guys talk about it is just ignorant and they’re finding reasons to hate on it for no reason
Honestly this is a really well made movie and aside from the weird culture that cultivated around it I think this is a really special movie that really does something different for the genre and not every movie should be like this but it's really cool to see that a movie in the comic genre can go for something so different from the norm and succeed at what it was trying to do.
For me personally Nick nailed this review & spoke 1000% to what I felt overall.
Great great movie imo! Really hit me in many ways especially with the mental illness aspects.
That ending shot is pure madness unhinged. What a foreshadowing .
Kevin's laugh in the beginning sounds exactly like Barry Keoghan's. Kevin knew
Nick was on fire in the episode!! He open my eyes about so much I missed in the movie.
Tim should apologize just like nick did for dark knight
Nick is spot on in this video.
Scorsese was originally going to executive produce but after he met Todd Phillips he realized Todd was an industry veteran and that he didn't necessarily need Scorsese's help. They were in a Hollywood Reporter roundtable discussion where Scorsese talked about this.
Personally I still enjoy the killing jokes origin take. I like that Joker was a normal guy with a wife struggling to make ends meet. A guy trying to just do something he loves but is shit on by the world constantly day in and day out. An just like that “one bad day” makes him snap.
Nick got this movie so spot on I'm always surprised when people have opinions like the rest of the guys do just cause I see the movie like Nick. But Nick you're departed opinion is still horribly wrong.
There's something I really don't like about this film that I can't quite put my finger on. Has a great performance, amazing music, good direction. But something about it feels...hollow? Like there's nothing much going on behind all that great stuff...
i think at bruces age, stranger danger wasnt taught to him with his level of previlage
Gold star to Nick this episode
All protests are a moment away from rioting that storyline makes sense
Brave thing to say here. But true. One slip from either side and it can quickly turn crazy
Inspiration for Jokers story is Bernie Goetz. Man who was mugged on subway in 80s NY that shot and killed three muggers.
Netflix has a great episode on the case in Trial By Media. The media and public's image of a vigilante folk hero was def the story Phillips used for inspiration. Surprised me watching the doc how dead on the same real life story is.
I can't remember how the case ended, whether he was found guilty or not guilty , if his retelling of what happened was true.
The funny part about that song (Rock and Roll Part 2) is that it fits with what we just learned about his childhood. Gary Glitter abusing kids goes along with Arthur being abused as a kid by the mom's boyfriend.
A very different In Review episode - love the in-depth discussions you guys had. I personally don't agree with Andy and Tim's takes on the film but I can see where they are coming from.
Heath Ledger looked really different in this movie
This is like when nick went off about the dark knight but instead it’s Tim’s turn to apologize in the next Kinda Funny Podcast.
It’s badly written is Joker. It’s a film about the state of the political climate of that time and how it compares/contrasts with the fictional Gotham of the 1980s but the writer got most of the details from our time wrong.
The only thing that continues to the end without becoming wronged is the fact that Arthur is a person who wants to tell jokes, that’s the only thematic line that connects from start to finish.
Its really nice to know Tim and Andy don't believe the Mental Illness is serious. And that its "Unrealistic" and "Would Never Happen". It just makes me, a diagnosed schizophrenic lose respect for them as they are part of the reason why Mental Health has a Stigma. Big respect to Nick for his understanding and Insight.
I respect that you enjoy this film but as someone with a mental illness (suicidal depression) I find the way this film generically uses the idea of “mental illness” insulting, it really bothers me. It’s hollow and performative. Its reductive but I describe it as mental illness “blackface”. It appropriates stereotypes of generic mental illness tropes as opposed to exploring the effects of a real illness on a real human being in these situations.
@@langleymneely I've never seen the movie, but I have Schizophrenia and feel the opposite. That's really interesting honestly and everyone is gonna take what they do from it. Your thoughts are just as valid as mine, but we aren't chalking our conditions as "Unrealistic" "Nobody Does That" is a bit shallow. This doesn't make me think lower of them I'll still consume their content daily as always.
You are grossly misrepresenting my words. The only thing I was saying was unrealistic and would never happen is a licensed therapist telling a patient to give up. -Tim
Yeah sorry bro but listen before you accuse guys of talking shit.
"Bro" and you expect me to take you seriously? Here's the thing, I will voice my opinion. If you or anyone else doesn't like it that's your right and I'm open to discussion. If you like the others want to demean me for voicing a differing opinion then I don't care what you have to say. I have to deal with this everyday, I don't need to listen to Tim say anything he's not my Psychiatrist who is board certified and has a degree on the subject. I really love how you'll blindly defend someone with zero actual knowledge on a subject, but feel its appropriate to pile on to someone dealing with subject first hand. You proved yourself to be a scumbag. Congrats on that.
Don't forget that refrigerators were the topic on a very special episode of Punky Brewster.
Song is written by Gary glitter and was the opening song for the bulls during introductions for years until it came out in the late 90s early 2000s what Gary glitter did .
Tim is insane
I don’t love the film but nick was on point in this episode
I thought my mom was the only one who was crazy about fridges. Obviously this was a big fear in the eighties, maybe even bigger than lasers
Fantastic Four in review should be the next thing whenever you guys get to it
You're reviewing Joker and Cat Women in this Batman in Review series, but leaving out the Jackie Chan Karate Kid movie in your Karate kid in Review?
Why did they never review Terminator Salvation in their Terminator review?
@@Rainmanking Because they only like the original trash
Damn, you gotta point lol
What a joke that freaking Lego batman is higher on the list than Joker. What a slap in the face to a great and important film
I can not get over how much Greg is looking like Gordon from the animated Harley Quinn show.
Even though I 100% disagreed with Kev dogs opinion on the film, either have him on the show or don’t. Idk if it’s like an audio issue or something but him constantly getting talked over and ignored every in review he’s on is weird.
I dont understand why this movie is considered important. It uses old tropes of "insane violent mentally ill patient" to say that if mental health goes untreated it gets worse, a message that I assume everyone already knew???
I saw The Killing Joke in theatres. You guys should consider that one.
You guys look at it the wrong way. It's not that this is an elevated "Superhero Film" it's that these types of stories can only be told within a franchise now and be successful. Yeah it's a retelling of taxi driver and the king of comedy but why did this make a billion and those didn't. THE TITLE AND THE MAKEUP
The joker reminds me of uncut gems as it’s a film you don’t enjoy
My hot take (I guess it's a hot take? IDK) is that this movie is all bark and no bite. It wants you to think that it's more important and about more thematically than it actually is. I mean, don't get me wrong I appreciate that it's trying to be about something (which is more than I can give most comic book movies) but it's honestly trying to be about too much, and succeeding at none of it. It's a movie about classism, the treatment of the mentally ill, society's treatment of socially awkward people (which I personally feel should've been the main focus), and like twenty other things. I admire it's scope but in trying to be jack of all trades it ends up being a master of none. It also doesn't help that Parasite was also about classism, came out the same year, and was a million times better than this.
Totally agree, it has a bunch of "themes" but with nothing to actually say about any of them.
The acting carries it hard, because the acting is phenomenal. But whatever they tried to say, they failed, because there is really absolutely nothing to take away from this movie other than "man that guy sure was crazy". As a Joker origin story, and nothing else, I think its good. And if the themes of classism and treatment of mental illness were only there to color Gotham, then I think it would succeed at that. But that final line before Joker kills Murray (and a couple other scenes) makes it really fucking obvious that they really really want to have a message. I think the movie is very well made, but its hard to divorce that from their failed intentions. If they actually didnt focus so much on their themes, and just told the same story with those in the background, I would actually love this movie, for everything else it does right.
It'd be cool if you guys include some of Batfleck's stuff for the in review episode!
What Tim thinks in terms of therapist needing to better is a very American point of view. Mental health is not nearly taken as seriously around the world. Noone believes in it where I'm from. I have had mental issues all my life and noone has ever cared about it.
That Charlie Chaplin movie was Modern Times and it’s Fk’N hilarious 😂☝️🤓
Can someone explain to me why The Joker is ESSENTIALLY King of Comedy and Taxi Driver? I see how both films are inspirations for this one.
It takes inspiration from both. I'm not saying it ripped them off but the similarities are clear.
@@Darwinfeeshy I agree. It's obvious that Todd Phillips was inspired both films, but I never really understood the argument that Joker is ripping off both films.
It seems like Nick is the only one here who actually understands what this movie is.
At first I was like Tim's crazy but as he explained his position it made more sense. Great in Review guys!
Its interesting that they don't seem to see the parallels of Joker in the movie being held up on this pedestal and people in real life putting Joker up on a pedestal. Here's this child murdering anarchy approving psychopath.... that is consistently in the Top 10 Halloween costumes in the world every year. This symbol of mental illness and despair and murder and abuse that we as a SO-CIETY have lifted up as this great thing. And then when mass shooters and mentally unwell people become murderers and kill and maim people for all the reasons that the Joker does, we shine a huge spotlight on them and give them the platform for their messages that they desperately hoped their murder spree would give them, and then condemn them for what they did as if we weren't the ones that built the world that told them this was what they should do if they wanted to be heard or be a legend that lives forever like Joker.
The movie almost condemns the audience for only seeing the sexy version of Joker and not caring about the mental illness that or the consequences for what makes someone become that.
The Bulls’ introduction music is by The Alan Parsons Project?
I think they’re mistaking the song. The song that in the joker is absolutely synonymous with the NBA it’s the song they always played when coming out of a timeout
Can we get a Rorschach movie now please
I actually really like this movie. It's got its issues, but the visuals are A+ and there are some rad "Joker" moments. Nick's right. Arthur talking to the cops at the hospital is great cuz he has that cool line like fuck off n flicks the cigarette super smooth and the just faceplants is totally a Joker thing. And the whole scene where he kills the bald dude is like quintessential Joker. It's got murder, it's got laughter, it's got J man being unpredictable with the uncertainty of whether he's gonna kill them both, followed by the its-so-horrible-why-am-I-laughing thing of the little dude not being able to reach the chain. Getting super longwinded here, but i just really vibed with this version and how joaquin just melts into it once he puts on the full suit. The whole time I'm kinda Eh, I don't see Joker, but I'm still enjoying myself, but with the suit and green hair it just works. The train car scene with all the clown masks is another great one where he's doing the Joker thing, being clever on the fly to some degree, but also fumbling it a little. Seeing him behind the mask, seeing no expression, but he's kinda peeking around people like antsy for the subway doors to open felt a lot like the opening of Dark Knight. Also seeing the difference between him practicing his entrance in the living room, copying what he saw vs his actual one just feelin himself and crushing it, I thought was a cool little thing
tl;dr i like. it good.
52:32 I just love the idea of De Niro watching this review. Lost my shit with that one.
I'm glad we are so far out from the release that people can now call this a "good movie". It was so annoying people trying to tiptoe around saying this is a good movie because they were scared what this may do to people. Even for a bunch of people who say video games don't cause violence. But this movie would?
This movie really isn't that great though.
I liked his dancing especially when you watch the video that inspired him
Fantastic Video, as always. Can't wait for 15 December and NolanLand😁❤️✌️👍
Not gonna lie... Kinda feels like they could have just done The Dark Knight trilogy during Nolan in Review and left it at that.
Every other Batman episode has felt pretty negative, which is fine when you're having fun (DCEU, Transformers, Star Wars prequels), but it doesn't feel like they enjoyed reviewing this run, which is a bit disappointing.
Looking forward to Karate Kid though! ($8 on Vudu btw)
Hey Nick, you using that PS5 in the corner? I can look after it for you if you want... ;)
I loved This movie
Quality wise, I think this is the best Batman film..... well it doesn't actually have Batman in it, so it's the best film that stars a character from Batman.
I agree, except I would put Batman Begins over this one.
Nick is on point that this type of movie on Mental illness would not have been made or got the attention that it should, had it not been a DC movie.
Tim, Andy and Kevin are looking at this movie from the pure eyes of comic books, with geniuses level unrealistic expectations from such characters and not the characters the movie is trying to portray.
Pathological Laughter II (Pseudobulbar Affect)
Please look up the UA-cam videos of the people who actually suffer from this uncontrollable laughing. They are meant to create awareness of this illness as these people actually get beaten up a lot due to their laugh. Joaquin really nailed that laugh in this movie, made me look it up and learn about this illness as well. Thus I would say the movie did create an impact of mental illness awareness.
I am little upset that Tim did not cover so topics in facts, he could have done a real good and provided more awareness to himself and Kinda Funny audience, instead just focused on the surface level topics as usual.
Nick is on point! Loved this movie.
i think kevin only likes marvel films at this point your over 30 i think my dude cmon