As someone who actually takes several of the same medications as Eliza, I can 100% see someone doing some really wonky stuff if they weren't taking their meds properly. I had my meds stolen a few years ago - after 3 days of refusing to tell my parents (due to irrationality from drug withdrawal), my mother literally had to spend an hour just convincing me to go to the doctor to get a replacement prescription because I was convinced I'd be attacked by a vengeful former roommate. Going off your meds isn't at all the same as never having those meds in the first place - it's like all those symptoms are so so so much more intensive than they normally would be. Tiny little things can become the end of the world - and mood swings can be nuts. ...Just saying too, her having lost her phone the night before? 100% great setup for a total mental breakdown for someone who's not taking their meds properly. Tiny little details like that can become literally world-ending. ... Honestly it's really upsetting that this happened, and I feel really bad for this poor girl... It's really sad too that she's remembered for all the utter LUNACY that people have decided could be possible. I mean, seriously, ANGRY GHOSTS?!?!?!? ...Get real...
This is why I wish YT had those reaction emoticons.. 🤗🤗 Guess that will have to do. You're awesome, working through it, acknowledging the problem and working on it best way you can. Best of all, teaching others how it feels like
Only people with bipolar can understand what you're talking about. I think since she was a romantic creative type it's just as likely she was exploring the rooftop and enjoying the view at night and decided to get up in the utility shed for a better view where she saw the water tank, possibly already open and decided to explore it too or go for a midnight swim in the nude without realizing there's no way out.
I just took care of someone for a month and she didn't take her medication. She got the rest of her teeth pulled then got sick, possibly covid. So she stopped taking them. And now I need a vacation
Having bi-polar and using the same meds I too understand how she got to this point. Well said and the best and most logical explanation that is sadly true and tragically likely.
To help clear up your confusion about Eliza's tags; tags on Tumblr have a little bit more privacy because people don't always read them, and some blog themes completely prevent you from reading them at all. It's part of the site's culture to put full sentences and even entire analyses within the tags because it's a good spot to just rant and rave about your feelings.
As an OG Business Blaze fan, I was dubious of this Callum fellow. He’s not Danny, after all. However, I’ve been really enjoying these scripts. Danny needs some company in the basement anyways.
A side note- it's not just Elisa who uses hashtags on Tumblr in a kinda weird way, people use the tags to elaborate or comment on a post without adding to the post itself - either to indicate they don't want people to reblog it because they lose the tags when they do and are missing relevant information or to add their thoughts while reblogging something without altering the post itself
The “mysterious box” had books in it, she had gone to a book store and told the clerk she thought the box of books would be too heavy for her to walk back, so the two guys were helping her.
lol. If there's an interesting/weird story out there, Simon's probably covered it... sometimes multiple times across different channels. I'm happy for him being able to get all these different channels going, and I'm really curious what a day in the life of Simon Whistler is really like with all the channels he has to do videos for.
Thank you for talking about Elisa. In all the times I've heard about this story the most I'd heard about her as a person boiled her down to just her mental health. You guys actually went into her time in college, her reason for actually traveling there, and discussed all the ways she was a real person who lived a real life. As someone with Bipolar Disorder it's always scary to think that at the end of my life I might just become my diagnosis and nothing more, but you guys showed her in a much better light. Thank you.
I know this is a 3 month old comment, but the first time i watched something on this case was from a channel called coffehouse+something. And that channel also went into her life before her death. Really recommend you check it out.
@@tbear Most of the videos on this case in the past couple years at least talk about her issues. Was just cause of the elevator footage and the misquote by the handyman about the tank's hatch that people went nuts over this and jumped to the spooky solution. In the Netflix documentary they have several UA-camrs from the time that helped spread the spooky theme of the case and they are resentful that they went there now. It's only really because those videos are old, and have such big view numbers, that they keep showing up in searches as high up on the results list, that keeps that dumb theory in the lime light.
@@krampusklaws2238 man that documentary was so frustrating it could be 90 min one parter but no they had to drag it on and ruin that poor singers life.
As a nurse, I DEEPLY appreciate how you presented this case - while paranormal things can be fun to entertain, the knowledge of what medications she was taking provided a lot of insight. To further validate the angle of medication withdrawal, some of the medications can cause seizures if stopped cold turkey (bupropion specifically, which is one I also take 🙃), so depending on how long ago she'd taken her bupropion, she could have seized in the water as well to contribute to her drowning. I've had several patients who came in while not taking their Seroquel (quetiapine) and the hallucinations and delusions and paranoia they have can be paralyzing, it can take days to achieve some sort of regulation. Bravo Callum and Simon for the in-depth analysis!
Simon is a ghost covering for his fellows. It's all a smoke screen. How else can he manage so many channels without driving himself into a grave unless he's already in one! We're on to you, spooky man.
"Is that how hashtags work on Tumblr" - yes. It's weird and idiosyncratic compared to other sites but that's how hashtags are used on Tumblr. Half the content is in the tags.
One thing I discovered in many years of medical transcription is that medications for bipolar disorder, depression, schizophrenia, et that type of cetera tend to have different effects on different people, in that some people get a real benefit, whereas others have weird side effects. Bipolar disorder is notoriously difficult to treat anyway.
Elisa may already have been at the beginning of a manic episode when she left on her trip. People who are manic tend to engage in risky behavior. Like going on a long trip by yourself and going to strange bars alone. Unfortunately her parents probably didn't know what symptoms to look out for.
i think youre absolutely right. mania makes you do and think some strange things (like believing you're going to become a guitar god when you dont even own a guitar and think about spending your food money on buying a really fancy guitar)
This is why people need to discuss mental health issues more openly. Then we’re actually able to recognize when this happens and know how to deal with it. And it would make everyone safer, including for the people who have to live with disorders that can cause psychosis.
@@dominicroit’s hard to recognize if you’re not used to seeing it, and because this entire planet is seriously lacking in basic education about mental health. Tbh we should learn about mental health issues alongside regular health, starting in middle or high school.
you know, as sarcastic as Simon can be, I do trust him, the writers/researchers of these channels so I actually feel like this is a good way of judging the strength of the netflix doc. Keep going fact-boi!!! lol. also, I appreciate Callum's discretion and empathy for the victim. Good stuff man.
I consider myself a lover of Ghosts/Aliens/Crypids but I have my limits, one of which is relating recent tragedies with surviving loved ones to spooky stuff
You know maybe we are too hard on Simon. He might have a very pleasant basement. I mean maybe being chained up isn’t such a bad thing????Plenty of lotion. Maybe a nice diet??? We don’t know...
As a person with serious mental health issues including bipolar disorder as well as someone studying mental health issues and planning on working with people with mental health issues I want to say how impressed I was with how this video addressed the mental health issues involved in this case. That her mental health issues were discussed in such a respectful manner was a nice change of pace compared to what I'm used to seeing in the media.
This is how the Netflix doc should've been done, you're the perfect example of balancing the line between factual, entertaining and respectful of the victims and their families! 👏👏👏
I agree this is one of the best well thought out breakdowns. But the Netflix documentary is better than most of your true crime addicts who are asking for arrests when there is almost no evidence she was murdered. As for respectful to the family I agree the family should be respected. But there is time and time again where people kill themselves, have mental breakdowns , or are just careless in their behavior where the family says there is no way they would have acted in this way. Eventually the family has to move on where majority of the evidence shows no one is responsible for their loved one's death but themselves, Is there negligence on the hotel's part with how long she was up there maybe...that isn't for me to decide. To be honest netflix and Simon are the only things you can find that say it is unlikely she was murdered. They even made the true crime sleuths look stupid on netflix because many of them have had wrong information and used it as a fact.
I like how "bipolar diagnosis" is treated as a "small stumbling block" for most of the story. My experience dealing with a bipolar diagnosed loved one says; unless she is perfect on her med dosage and there's someone monitoring her, the plane was already in a steep nosedive towards the ground.
Same here lol. My favourite is when people ask for their metformin to be filled but say metamorphin which then always gets me thinking of Power Rangers
This is probably the most sobering and in-depth look into Elisa's case I've come across, although I have only seen a few of them because, honestly, I can't stand how much the case had been sensationalized by the internet. There is a serious conversation that we can have about mental health and how we can care for people with serious mental health issues better. Instead, she is reduced to a character in so many of these conversation that it is sickening. Also, I really love that Callum brought in Elisa's own writing into the script and humanize her for the audience. Very nice touch there.
I really enjoyed Stephanie Harlowe's coverage of this case. She is super thorough and does deep dives. She's so good at being sensitive about mental health issues.
There is a bit about tumblr culture where the hashtags section is really used to tell more details that your typical reader might not care about. or to make inside jokes. Or rant. Or basically anything I wrote here after the first period. It's a very odd little quirk of the wild world that is Tumblr.
Plus this case happened when hashtags were just becoming a mainstream thing. I remember lots of people (not only on tumblr) using hashtags jokingly, in an exaggerated and nonsensical way, to make fun of the whole concept of people who use three million hashtags under the captions of their private facebook photos.
@@miristtotallw Oh yeah, I think that took steam from tumblr culture, just filtered through a few other sites first. By that time Tumblr had used hashtags ironically and that's what grew to the hashtag ranting at the bottom of posts.
Between the ages of 17-20/21 (the same period of time in which schizophrenia first manifests), most humans have a 'neurological misfiring' phase/episode... quite often a 'depressive' episode while at college, or a breakdown even. But it's also when many people have their first manic episode, which isn't necessarily 'scary' at all--it can be euphoric just as easily as it can be 'terrfying'. But adolescents are often unaware of the likelihood, so they can become paranoid or heavily promiscuous, they might go on a shopping or drinking binge... Granted, in a hotel full of drugged up, poor, or otherwise unstable people, Elisa Lam's behaviour wouldn't have stood out. But in general, people need to LOOK at the people around them more, and to have a general understanding/knowledge of the basic appearance and presentation of such symptoms. It does not necessarily mean the person is 'permanently mentally ill', and there's no need to be afraid or to overreact (unless what they're doing is objectively 'dangerous'). The stigma associated with those behaviours makes people reluctant to recognise it, and it instills fear that can intensify anxiety or paranoia for the person experiencing it, which is unnecessary and potentially devastating. Hyperbole and denial prevent progress. Be a good friend and a good citizen. Pay attention to those you care about and the people in your surroundings. Knowing what it 'looks like' will help you calmly and rationally deal with and help others. (Also, one big tip: getting naked is VERY common during manic episodes. If your 'otherwise reserved' friend strips down, just help keep an eye open for other signs.) We need to be able to talk about these things to prevent unnecessary tragedy.
The stripping down part can also be a sign of psychosis progressing into catatonia. My ex used to overheat when he would be in psychosis and that’s when the clothes would get ripped off. It used the scare the shit out of me because his body would be so hot to the touch it was like he was running a fever
Really loving Callum's scripts so far. The research is fantastic and the humor is well-balanced with genuine empathy, something which especially stands out in this one. Bravo gents! 👏
I am a little bummed you skipped over the death metal artist. The thing is, he stayed at the cecil at a different time than Elisa, but because it was close the internet focused on him, and because he had some lyrics people thought they were coded confession. The internet destroyed him and he had a hard time recovering. He hasn't made music since because of how out of context his personal and music were take and the accusations against him, the level of harassment he was getting sent him to a dark place. It was sad and a perfect example of why internet detectives need to sit the F down. He was completely innocent.
The conspiracy channels that spoke about her case at that time made me so mad. They were all so rude towards how they spoke about her, her family and accusing people so aggressively. This video was fantastic and respectful.
To be honest, when this case happened the majority of criminology content on UA-cam was basically entertainment true crime, coupled with the fact that most people on this planet are desperately ignorant when it comes to recognizing mental health crisis, especially psychosis. I had an uncle that recently passed and used to have an ex that both suffered with schizophrenia and I didn’t recognize her movements and behavior that was caught on the CCTV footage as psychosis. And honestly, even when people are somewhat aware of the issues schizophrenia or bipolar disorder can bring, many people don’t realize taking off clothes and getting into water is something people do when in that state. It did come off as suspicious, considering she was a pretty girl that was by herself in a very sketchy hotel.
He wasn't being as humble as you thought. If you slow the video down to half speed and turn it to full volume you'll clearly hear him mumble "hundred" after he says several 🤣🤣
Bloody hell, I had a cold shiver down my spine listening to you list down her entire cocktail of medication. I realised I had been on all of them at some point. I fully understand why she didn't skip venlafaxine though, it causes some pretty damn uncomfortable withdrawal effects if you end up missing a dose or so.
And withdrawal can begin if you miss even just one dose! I remember missing a day and dealing with brain zaps all day- don’t miss dealing with that medication anymore
@@GoodnessGreycious0 Yeah it's major pain in the arse. Haven't been able to get rid of it yet, I was getting major mood swings for well after a month after I quit so I resigned myself and starting taking that damn poison again..
@Tsumami__ Effexor actually has a longer half-life than its close relative, the SSRI Paxil. AFAIK, the two drugs in the same class which are the most similar are Celexa and Lexapro, with more people having success with Lexapro. Talk to your doctor, obviously, and all that, though. I'm not a medical professional, but I am permanently diaabled and almost died from an injury related to the extremely short half-life of Paxil, and being put on Effexor actually saved my life. I've since tried going from Effexor onto the similar two aforementioned drugs, but the withdrawal and tapering were just too brutal for me to even function.
What the online community did with this poor girl's case, and what they did to that poor singer, was and is despicable. They've hurt a grieving family and all but ruined an innocent man's life. It's just all so wrong.
@@michaeltobias3110 Because people keep watching it? Lots of people find true crime and unsolved cases fascinating so if there is an audience for it then shows will be made about it. How respectful those are varies but there is no doubt an audience for this.
Something that needs to be mentioned about this case is how common it is for people who go missing during a manic episode to be found naked and/or in strange places like in a crawlspace or up in a tree. People having manic episodes can kinda turn into hyperactive little kids who go to play in dangerous places and get themselves killed.
THANK YOU - this is the first coherent covering of the Elisa Lam case that just looks at facts without pushing the supernatural agenda. Also, there's a big difference between using someone's misfortune to create casual entertainment, versus soberly studying the facts and evidence. Casual Criminalist is definitely in the second category.
Shame this didn't come out a bit later, there's a lot more information on the new documentary, although hearing stuff on here I hadn't heard before too. For example, they did interview the guys seen meeting with her in the lobby, they worked for the bookstore, they found the box in the possessions. Also, with the lift, she was on the 14th floor (not where she was staying), can be seen by the top centre row button light disappearing as she clicks it, she also clicks the 'hold lift' button, which holds the lift for approximately 2 minutes, hence the lift not moving. The "alarmed" door was either not working, or ignored - working in property myself, 9 times out of 10, if you have a faulty alarm you're use to seeing go off, you learn to ignore it, or click mute. Furthermore, when they got up there, they found stuff everywhere to show people were up there regularly, either through the external ladder, or internal stairs. Loving all the content, my UA-cam search bar is pretty much every one of your channels!
I didn't see the documentary but am curious not seeing anyone else say anything about it... Was there a way for Elisa to climb out once she climbed into the tank in the first place? That'd be a simple oversight, one more likely to be made while manic, and if it was the case that she couldn't climb out, she could have been up there alive for days... Starving out in solitary confinement... Hopefully there was more information, at least some way of clarifying whether she'd hit her head or something else that'd prevent her from climbing out beyond there being no means. And how that'd affect the way people talk about her, maybe, idk, that kind of suffering would have been mad.
I commented several years ago on the video you did about exploding head syndrome. I've had it my whole life and honestly, it's not bad at all when you get used to it. I always know I'm about to fall asleep when I hear a deep man's voice shouting my name haha. But anyways, this was definitely my favorite take on this case I've seen so far. Many questions I've always had have been answered and it was incredibly respectful. Appreciate the hard work from you and your team! It's been cool to see your channels grow and improve through all this time
Thanks for being a Legend Simon. A lot of what you're saying about being tasteful about the victim is something I've been thinking about A LOT lately as I've watched some old crime shows on NetFlix and it's just so CREEPY listening to people, especially detectives, talk about victims, Especially women. I think the most infuriating one to me was a detective who kept describing a poor woman as "She'd get a second look" as if her being attractive in life was the only thing that made her worth anything. Simon, you and Calum are doing right by the victims with respect. Keep up the good work.
This most unfortunate woman was proven to have been off her medication for at least a few days before she died. We can be sure: -Her mental health was such that she required some pretty heavy duty medications to be well. -It's common for people to forget / run out of their medications at the best of times and much more common for those taking antipsychotics. -Simply suddenly stopping such medications will have drastic mental health effects in addition to the now untreated baseline condition(s). Without specific strong evidence to the contrary no further explanation is required for anything that happened here.
Hey, a pharmacist here: you're right about lithium and your drug pronunciations were pretty good! Also you're on the point about drug ads. In Germany for otc meds ads there must come a disclaimer to get advice by physicians or pharmacists
"Despite its rough track record, there aren't any ghosts at the Cecil Hotel; it's just a place where the effects of drugs, despair, and deprivation have cropped up time and time again. That's about as close a thing to a curse as reality ever offers up." Writers like Callum are one of the big reasons I keep coming back to this channel. They not only do the research and get into the weeds, but they're also sensible enough to be able to read situations- and the people involved- astutely.
I started with toptenz now I am hooked on all these tip top channels by Simon an staff. Long live ETA. U totally got a great thing going. Cheers from across the pond.
@@emilieraptor9373 why is it heartless? Simon doesn't disrespect the victims/dead at all, he specifically said that he would rather talk about her life than the way she was found, for example. Obviously this channel isn't for you and that's fair enough, some of us deal with death in different ways. I personally prefer to laugh than cry when thinking of my dead loved ones but it doesn't mean I'm heartless and don't care, I just don't see what good crying and getting depressed does. There is a Netflix show about Elisa's disappearance that you might prefer, much more subdued and formal. ❤
@@emilieraptor9373 someone put a lot of heart into this script, and it's painfully obvious you didn't watch the whole thing. Just like finish it the video and think about your stupid outburst in the comments section.
Venlafaxine was terrible for me. It made me hallucinate, dissociate, and become completely paranoid and detached from reality. There were times where I had to muster up every ounce of control to NOT drive my car off a bridge, run a random person over in a parking lot thinking they were going to kill me if I didnt, and lie down on the railroad tracks. It all became amplified shortly after I stopped taking it, but about a week later I was back to normal; depressed, but grounded in reality. It was the most terrifying 2 months of my life. I can see myself acting just like Elisa if I were alone and far away from anyone in my support system. Suggesting that she was a victim of GHOSTS is a huge disrespect to the mentally ill and makes out conditions look like a joke.
I doubt very much that some of the internet “ sleuths” and conspiracy theorists care that much for this poor woman or her bereaved family. This is a tragic story of a life cut too short, and not a game. So many conspiracy theorists seem to overlook the harm that their half baked ideas can cause the already suffering families of the victims.
They may have started caring for Elisa but then (some) ended up caring more for the mystery element, IMO. I forgot what's the term but there are people who believe that extraordinary circumstances need extraordinary explanations. Even before watching the Netflix docuseries, I guessed she was either on drugs or having a psychotic episode based on the elevator video. NOT ghosts. Not another person, whose "shoe" was seen (please.. it was her foot). If she was seriously running away or hiding from someone, why the heck did she pop out half of her body while looking sideways? It's great that there were cases solved by web sleuths but they don't have all the information nor the skills and resources of law enforcement. I don't even know if they have enough life experience to be so confident of what they are talking about. Sorry a bit long ✌.. sort of venting. It was quite upsetting when I saw the comments and clips of the youtubers and "sleuths". I was just hoping Elisa's loved ones did not watch those Fkd up theories. Also upsetting were the keyboard warriors vs the Mexican Metal guy. I'm not into his music and art but jeez..they could've driven that man to suicide...and for what?! That was a great ending commentary Callum.
"This script is heavy, so this video might be long" >Holds up script that seems a bit smaller than most Business Blaze ones< So you get 3 times the content as long as Danny doesn't write the intro.
This was a really interesting and well-researched take on the case. Great work Callum! I'd always thought it was a strange case, not thinking there are ghosts or anything, just thinking the water tank business did suggest some foul play: this episode has really turned my mind from "suspicious death, maybe manslaughter or even murder" to "tragic death, the tanks were unsafe". I can't believe how few people have noticed the whole "the tank was just left open" part. It's so sad to think of her last day as a manic/hallucinatory episode that ended in her death, and all those people drinking her corpse water, and her poor family being subjected to all the theories that gave them false reason to blame someone for murdering her, that slandered their dead daughter, and that exploited her death for spookiness and profit. It's bad enough when I run out of or forget to take my depression medication, it sucks so bad that running out of/losing/forgetting/whatever reason she was off her meds caused her to die.
The drinking of corpse water as a concept has always haunted me after hearing about it- Imagine just knowing you bathed in that, drank that, brushed your teeth in that, etc; you'd never forget the taste. Not the most tragic part of this case, but very disturbing
Simon, you are my go-to lull to sleep voice. Then I gotta re-watch when I wake up, because it was interesting right before my brain chose Cake or Death.
Thank you - both Simon & Callum - for your tasteful coverage of Elisa's mental health conditions. It's such a stigmatized discussion, and it's so frustrating. I'm on/tapering of some of Elisa's medications and it's a challenge to find the right combination to treat conditions like hers (and mine - I'm just not going to go into details about mine). As a note Lamotrigine is pronounced (la-MO-tra-jean), venlafaxine is pronounced (ven-la-FEX-ine), and the other is pronounced (QUEE-a-ti-pine). Just in case you come across them again. :)
“It’s just a place where drugs, despair and deprivation” have had their effects. Took me a moment to remember he was talking about the Cecil, thought he was talking about my town for a minute there.
I take Venlafaxine and I know it does have side effects! It can make you really dizzy at times and can make you forgetful or even have lost periods of time in your memory in extreme circumstances. I can see those massively affecting this case.
Yup, brains mess up sometimes. I have a sleep disorder called hypnagogic hallucinations (in which you start "dreaming" when you're nearly asleep, so you are essentially hallucinating, and it's almost as scary as sleep paralysis). When I was a teenager I thought it was ghosts, but I grew up since then. It's not ghosts, it's just a sleep disorder.
I've seen several videos about this case, and yours is probably the most tasteful and thorough out of all of them. Not surprising though, these qualities are exactly what make the Casual Criminalist stand out from the sea of true crime UA-cam for me. Excellent job once again! 👌🏻
She was sick. Her death was correctly called an accident. She very likely had a mental breakdown because she was not drinking her medication as directed. Bipolar is horrible and if she had lost someone else's phone that night, it could have sent her into a manic episode. Anyone with bipolar can tell you that the smallest thing going wrong will send you into either a depressive episode of hell or a manic episode of hell. She snapped. She was probably having hallucinations. I feel for her and her family.
My only issue with this theory is how she got on to an alarmed roof, in to the tank. In her apparent mental state could or would she have been in the state to access the roof, by a method that did not set off the alarm (wouldn't the alarm have bought people to chase off whoever she thought was chasing her) and get on the tank by jumping not leaving a mark on her. I'm not saying that's not what happened, she could have done it all herself but at the same time I don't totally rule out other possibilities, like someone else being involved. I've no time for ghosts, aliens or conspiracies but someone getting rid of a body, maybe. Either way as you say very sad either way.
@@itarry4 there's a theory that the alarm wasn't working properly. Also accounts on whether the lid was open or not change depending on who and when the question was asked. I think it was a a horrible accident with a lot of unfortunate events happening one after another
@@LannasMissingLink yhea I mean I'm far more on the terrible accident side myself. Just stating the parts that I find troubling about the story as its generally told. I'm happy to accept that the alarm wasn't working and that the lid was off it just seems a bit of a stretch that such things wouldn't be made very clear in the police report on the event. That's 2 fairly important details for the police to not be very sure about if they are true or not at the time they were investigating. The alarm especially would be very easy to know one way or another. The lid not so much because I can easily see the Workman who was sent to check having his memory wrong. It's well known that people's memories of events are rarely totally accurate and the more shocking and unnerving the thing is, like a crime, the more the mind can lie to us about what we saw.
Thank you so much for covering this case tastefully, I know I can always count on that from any channel you host. The way the internet has treated this tragedy like some kind of side show attraction is really messed up and I feel so bad for her family. I feel like the case has also further contributed to the stigma surrounding mental health in our society. If you or someone you know needs help then please reach out, I know it's not always that simple. There is always hope.
I nearly shat myself when that ghost shadow popped up with the creepy sound effect when Simon's saying he's not a ghost believer! Good editing! Great content, but creepy as hell!
I have become obsessed with your channel. I love true crime and even one's I've heard before are so much more interesting the way you tell them. I don't think you should exclude any stories (such as ones that everyone tells) your way is unique.
I keep thinking he is about to say “It’s your boy with the blaze” at the beginning. I think hearing about the collar bomb heist (death of Brian Wells) would be super interesting with Simon speaking. I tried watching the netflix documentary on it but just couldn’t finish after they showed the actual footage of the bomb going off.
Nice to finally see a rational UA-cam /podcast about this case. All the others I've seen so far have been high on the supernatural/conspiracy theory angle. Mental health breakdowns can make you do some very strange things, that feel totally rational to the person experiencing it. Also if she hadn't taken her medication for the last day or so, an episode would be more likely.
Talking about biographies and Jack Unterweger: there is a counterpart of his, the first Austrian profiler Thomas Müller who received part of his training in the United States, and used his knowledge to identify the (allegedly) reconciled former prison inmate and poet Jack Unterweger as the culprit in a series of murders.
I work in mental health pharmacy and the brain is such a complex thing. It really is scary to think it could go work at any moment and can completely change your view of reality. Sounds like she had quite severe bipolar based on her medication list
Hi Trevor Hardy " Britain's forgotten serial killer" would be really interesting he was active the same time as the Yorkshire ripper he was arrested and released by the police and went on to kill again and there are other crimes he's suspected of.... Yet nobody has really heard of him. Absolutely love this channel my new favourite joint with business blaze keep up the awesome work. Simon has rescued my sanity thru this lockdown 😊😊😊😊
I always get aggravated when I see people discuss Elisa Lam's "suicide." Did she stop taking her meds and go off the rails a bit? I think so. Did she die a really miserable death by what could be described as "misadventure?" Absolutely. The problem with calling it a suicide though is that suicide implies intent. I've dealt with suicidal impulses for over 20 years, and I don't think Lam went up on that rooftop to kill herself. I think she was having an episode and decided, at that time, the best thing for her to do was to climb into the water tower, only to not be able to escape later. Calling it a "suicide" is insulting both to her, and to anyone who actually deals with this problem, in much the same way that describing the death of a drunk driver who drove his car into a tree as a suicide. I appreciate that you didn't do that here.
Really glad I didn't skip over this one as a "heard ot a million times". Worth the hour watch! Simon really went into details other youtubers didn't care enough to research. A real logical approach.
Wouldn't Elisa figure that she sounded the fire alarm when she went out on the roof? And then climbed inside the water tank to hide? When she heard sirens, which is common in a city with 15 million people she basically hid. She was hiding in the elevator on video to support my theory. Her hands appear to be describing the elevator to someone in the hall who most likely informed her to use the stairwell outside. Asian women are very shy, for the most part. So tragic. My deepest for her family.
that's exactly how hashtags on tumblr work! you kind of just have your main post and most people tend to put extra thoughts/information in the tags like that. pretty normal thing to see on tumblr back then and still to this day.
This is actually the first I’ve heard of this case. I’m glad I heard it here, Simon and Callum give us the facts while keeping it interesting. Allegedly.
As someone who takes venlafaxine for my depression, yes, any drugs that can help you mentally can also mess with your head. I was warned that when I started taking the drug or whenever my dosage was adjusted my brain might do some wierd things while acclimating. Sure enough, each time I adjusted my dosage amount, I would awaken in bed that night and see a weird shadow figure in my bedroom. It was definitely disconcerting, but by the third time I was half-heartedly kicking at it, muttering that it wasn't real, and telling it to let me get back to sleep. I can't even imagine what heavier drugs would do to the brain, especially when you're taking multiple kinds.
If you're trying to cover up a crime, you don't edit CCTV footage, you just "lose" it and then claim there was a hard drive failure, or the tape got lost, or whatever. I mean, any theoretical criminals would have had two weeks to do so, pretty stupid to do something harder and far more likely to be detected then show the entire world.
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this in the comments already but the two men with the box were employees of the book shop Elisa visited that day. The books were too heavy for her to carry around LA whilst she was sight seeing so the employees dropped them off later when she was back at the hotel.
This might be the most tasteful take on this case i've seen. I've always been uncomfortable with how people love to speculate about what happened and even rational people talking about it seem to like to bring up the ghost theory as if it has some kind of real potential. I like how focused this video was on Elisa, not just the surrounding theories and rumours. It made her feel more like a reachable human with a tragic accidental end rather than the ghost infested, demon possessed victim many make her out to be.
re: the weird use of hashtags - that sort of is how people tend to use them on tumblr. in the post people will write their main thought and then the tags are for like additional thoughts, things that will make your post too long, etc. and its very common to break into individual words/phrases because tagging on tumblr is less of a search function and more of a postscript to what you're saying
I feel like you do a great job of making jokes when it’s appropriate and explaining why it’s important to hold off other times. It’s really refreshing tbh!
Paranormal? No. Murder? Maybe. But tbh I think it just involved the hotel being incompetent. When Lam's parents sued, they demanded to know why the hotel didn't lock the water tanks, and management argued that they didn't have to because it wasn't illegal to leave your water tank unlocked at the time. In the Netflix doc, footage of the rooftop is shown, and you can see old pizza boxes and beer cans all over the place, implying people can get up there any time they want. The hotel wouldnt want anyone to know that. They also wouldn't want anyone dwelling on how they mislead guests into thinking Stay on Main is not physically the same building under the same management as The Cecil
Not all of us metalheads are satanists, dagnabbit! If Elisa had no trace of one of her meds in her system, could the men with the box have been delivering some?
she had them in her room though, no? ive known several people over the years who felt they were "better" cos the meds were working, and then they stopped them, themselves, and had huge relapses. this kinda feels like that, to me.
According to the Netflix documentary the video was indeed edited...by the police. They slowed down the footage, so potential witnesses have it easier to recognize Elisa Lam. Also according to documentary, the two guys were employees of the bookstore, which she visited before, who delivered some books to her.
As someone who actually takes several of the same medications as Eliza, I can 100% see someone doing some really wonky stuff if they weren't taking their meds properly. I had my meds stolen a few years ago - after 3 days of refusing to tell my parents (due to irrationality from drug withdrawal), my mother literally had to spend an hour just convincing me to go to the doctor to get a replacement prescription because I was convinced I'd be attacked by a vengeful former roommate. Going off your meds isn't at all the same as never having those meds in the first place - it's like all those symptoms are so so so much more intensive than they normally would be. Tiny little things can become the end of the world - and mood swings can be nuts. ...Just saying too, her having lost her phone the night before? 100% great setup for a total mental breakdown for someone who's not taking their meds properly. Tiny little details like that can become literally world-ending. ... Honestly it's really upsetting that this happened, and I feel really bad for this poor girl... It's really sad too that she's remembered for all the utter LUNACY that people have decided could be possible. I mean, seriously, ANGRY GHOSTS?!?!?!? ...Get real...
Thank you for your perspective.
This is why I wish YT had those reaction emoticons..
🤗🤗
Guess that will have to do.
You're awesome, working through it, acknowledging the problem and working on it best way you can.
Best of all, teaching others how it feels like
Only people with bipolar can understand what you're talking about. I think since she was a romantic creative type it's just as likely she was exploring the rooftop and enjoying the view at night and decided to get up in the utility shed for a better view where she saw the water tank, possibly already open and decided to explore it too or go for a midnight swim in the nude without realizing there's no way out.
I just took care of someone for a month and she didn't take her medication. She got the rest of her teeth pulled then got sick, possibly covid. So she stopped taking them. And now I need a vacation
Having bi-polar and using the same meds I too understand how she got to this point. Well said and the best and most logical explanation that is sadly true and tragically likely.
To help clear up your confusion about Eliza's tags; tags on Tumblr have a little bit more privacy because people don't always read them, and some blog themes completely prevent you from reading them at all. It's part of the site's culture to put full sentences and even entire analyses within the tags because it's a good spot to just rant and rave about your feelings.
As an OG Business Blaze fan, I was dubious of this Callum fellow. He’s not Danny, after all. However, I’ve been really enjoying these scripts. Danny needs some company in the basement anyways.
Ah a fellow blazer.
The others just don’t understand.
Same. I'm glad Danny has someone to share his mushroom crop with
I heard that Callum is the love child of Danny & ETA
🤷🏼♀️
@@socalgal714 Allegedly.
Love watching other channels and see a hint business blaze Simon lol
A side note- it's not just Elisa who uses hashtags on Tumblr in a kinda weird way, people use the tags to elaborate or comment on a post without adding to the post itself - either to indicate they don't want people to reblog it because they lose the tags when they do and are missing relevant information or to add their thoughts while reblogging something without altering the post itself
Interesting, I am not a Tumblr user so I didn't know the details about it.
Today i found out
So ppl use hashtags the way others use footnotes in academic papers when they're avoiding going over a word count.
The “mysterious box” had books in it, she had gone to a book store and told the clerk she thought the box of books would be too heavy for her to walk back, so the two guys were helping her.
I guessed as much, good to see it confirmed.
Simon: "I have several UA-cam channels."
Me: You don't say?
At this point isn't like 99.999% of youtube now Simon channels?
Keep cranking out those clones Whistler!
;D
Insert Shocked Captain Kirk meme here 😂
He’s 2021’s answer to the Rick Roll
lol. If there's an interesting/weird story out there, Simon's probably covered it... sometimes multiple times across different channels. I'm happy for him being able to get all these different channels going, and I'm really curious what a day in the life of Simon Whistler is really like with all the channels he has to do videos for.
Thank you for talking about Elisa. In all the times I've heard about this story the most I'd heard about her as a person boiled her down to just her mental health. You guys actually went into her time in college, her reason for actually traveling there, and discussed all the ways she was a real person who lived a real life. As someone with Bipolar Disorder it's always scary to think that at the end of my life I might just become my diagnosis and nothing more, but you guys showed her in a much better light. Thank you.
Netflix did a 4 part documentary about this. They went in depth into her life too.
I know this is a 3 month old comment, but the first time i watched something on this case was from a channel called coffehouse+something. And that channel also went into her life before her death. Really recommend you check it out.
@@tbear Most of the videos on this case in the past couple years at least talk about her issues. Was just cause of the elevator footage and the misquote by the handyman about the tank's hatch that people went nuts over this and jumped to the spooky solution.
In the Netflix documentary they have several UA-camrs from the time that helped spread the spooky theme of the case and they are resentful that they went there now. It's only really because those videos are old, and have such big view numbers, that they keep showing up in searches as high up on the results list, that keeps that dumb theory in the lime light.
That's one nice comment.
@@krampusklaws2238 man that documentary was so frustrating it could be 90 min one parter but no they had to drag it on and ruin that poor singers life.
Simon Whistler, the boy with the blaze that keeps half the world's freelance writers employed.
Locked in his basement with Danny, they share the same radiator for comfort.
@@boziewz6125 ba da boom boom tshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
@@boziewz6125 *allegedly
@@boziewz6125 the more bodies there are, the more heat there is for them all.
@@boziewz6125 Sam's down there tooo! All strapped to the same radiator
As a nurse, I DEEPLY appreciate how you presented this case - while paranormal things can be fun to entertain, the knowledge of what medications she was taking provided a lot of insight. To further validate the angle of medication withdrawal, some of the medications can cause seizures if stopped cold turkey (bupropion specifically, which is one I also take 🙃), so depending on how long ago she'd taken her bupropion, she could have seized in the water as well to contribute to her drowning. I've had several patients who came in while not taking their Seroquel (quetiapine) and the hallucinations and delusions and paranoia they have can be paralyzing, it can take days to achieve some sort of regulation. Bravo Callum and Simon for the in-depth analysis!
Simon is a ghost covering for his fellows. It's all a smoke screen. How else can he manage so many channels without driving himself into a grave unless he's already in one! We're on to you, spooky man.
Ehm... Cocaine?
Simon has a Simon clone for each of his channels. It's bad when they all get together, since they all insist they are the original Simon.
Cocaine... Allegedly.
Ghost clones. We just bump the transparency to 130% in post.
Or maybe Simon is the one truly in the basement not Danny
"Is that how hashtags work on Tumblr" - yes. It's weird and idiosyncratic compared to other sites but that's how hashtags are used on Tumblr. Half the content is in the tags.
One thing I discovered in many years of medical transcription is that medications for bipolar disorder, depression, schizophrenia, et that type of cetera tend to have different effects on different people, in that some people get a real benefit, whereas others have weird side effects. Bipolar disorder is notoriously difficult to treat anyway.
Elisa may already have been at the beginning of a manic episode when she left on her trip. People who are manic tend to engage in risky behavior. Like going on a long trip by yourself and going to strange bars alone. Unfortunately her parents probably didn't know what symptoms to look out for.
I think you might be right. It was probably hard to recognize at the onset though.
i think youre absolutely right. mania makes you do and think some strange things (like believing you're going to become a guitar god when you dont even own a guitar and think about spending your food money on buying a really fancy guitar)
This is why people need to discuss mental health issues more openly. Then we’re actually able to recognize when this happens and know how to deal with it. And it would make everyone safer, including for the people who have to live with disorders that can cause psychosis.
@@dominicroit’s hard to recognize if you’re not used to seeing it, and because this entire planet is seriously lacking in basic education about mental health. Tbh we should learn about mental health issues alongside regular health, starting in middle or high school.
you know, as sarcastic as Simon can be, I do trust him, the writers/researchers of these channels so I actually feel like this is a good way of judging the strength of the netflix doc. Keep going fact-boi!!! lol.
also, I appreciate Callum's discretion and empathy for the victim. Good stuff man.
Excellent job Callum 👏👏👏👏
I consider myself a lover of Ghosts/Aliens/Crypids but I have my limits, one of which is relating recent tragedies with surviving loved ones to spooky stuff
Simon: "Callen, we're on the same page!"
That's why he's chained up in the basement with Danny
Lesson: never agree too much with Simon
You know maybe we are too hard on Simon. He might have a very pleasant basement. I mean maybe being chained up isn’t such a bad thing????Plenty of lotion. Maybe a nice diet??? We don’t know...
@@krzyryry8382 There are mushrooms growing down there...allegedly.
Callum is just danny under another name. That way we won't yell at Simon for working danny to the bone.
I'm on to you Simon.
You don't know about the people who disagreed.
@@TheCasualCriminalist You just annexed their channels and made them your own.
As a person with serious mental health issues including bipolar disorder as well as someone studying mental health issues and planning on working with people with mental health issues I want to say how impressed I was with how this video addressed the mental health issues involved in this case. That her mental health issues were discussed in such a respectful manner was a nice change of pace compared to what I'm used to seeing in the media.
This is how the Netflix doc should've been done, you're the perfect example of balancing the line between factual, entertaining and respectful of the victims and their families! 👏👏👏
I agree this is one of the best well thought out breakdowns. But the Netflix documentary is better than most of your true crime addicts who are asking for arrests when there is almost no evidence she was murdered. As for respectful to the family I agree the family should be respected. But there is time and time again where people kill themselves, have mental breakdowns , or are just careless in their behavior where the family says there is no way they would have acted in this way. Eventually the family has to move on where majority of the evidence shows no one is responsible for their loved one's death but themselves, Is there negligence on the hotel's part with how long she was up there maybe...that isn't for me to decide. To be honest netflix and Simon are the only things you can find that say it is unlikely she was murdered. They even made the true crime sleuths look stupid on netflix because many of them have had wrong information and used it as a fact.
I like how "bipolar diagnosis" is treated as a "small stumbling block" for most of the story. My experience dealing with a bipolar diagnosed loved one says; unless she is perfect on her med dosage and there's someone monitoring her, the plane was already in a steep nosedive towards the ground.
What I hate is that it’s constantly used to vehemently deny the possibility that someone murdered her
@@plissken94th57still don’t believe for a goddamn second that she killed herself.
Being a pharmacy technician, listening to Simon mispronounce the drug names was the best part of this episode 😆
It’s understandable. I still can’t pronounce some of my meds even after years of taking them.
Ah yes, Queteyapeen
Same here lol. My favourite is when people ask for their metformin to be filled but say metamorphin which then always gets me thinking of Power Rangers
fr. i used to take lamotrigine and when he said it i died a little inside lmao
This is probably the most sobering and in-depth look into Elisa's case I've come across, although I have only seen a few of them because, honestly, I can't stand how much the case had been sensationalized by the internet. There is a serious conversation that we can have about mental health and how we can care for people with serious mental health issues better. Instead, she is reduced to a character in so many of these conversation that it is sickening.
Also, I really love that Callum brought in Elisa's own writing into the script and humanize her for the audience. Very nice touch there.
Netflix did that too.
I really enjoyed Stephanie Harlowe's coverage of this case. She is super thorough and does deep dives. She's so good at being sensitive about mental health issues.
Same. I believe in “ghosts” but obviously there wasn’t one that only she could see messing with her that then possessed her and killed her.
There is a bit about tumblr culture where the hashtags section is really used to tell more details that your typical reader might not care about. or to make inside jokes. Or rant. Or basically anything I wrote here after the first period. It's a very odd little quirk of the wild world that is Tumblr.
Plus this case happened when hashtags were just becoming a mainstream thing. I remember lots of people (not only on tumblr) using hashtags jokingly, in an exaggerated and nonsensical way, to make fun of the whole concept of people who use three million hashtags under the captions of their private facebook photos.
@@miristtotallw Oh yeah, I think that took steam from tumblr culture, just filtered through a few other sites first. By that time Tumblr had used hashtags ironically and that's what grew to the hashtag ranting at the bottom of posts.
Netflix Doc on Elisa Lam: ew thats depressing.
Casual Criminalist on Elisa Lam: Oh hell ya!
Netflix put jewels and diamonds on Elisa’s death, criminalist will give it to us straight and grotesque!
I sae that that was added to netflix shortly after I saw that Simon uploaded this.
Decided I'd rather hear it from Simon lol.
@@carston101 legend
@@carston101 me too
@@carston101 ye I watched it on Netflix and it only built up to a kinda boring ending
Between the ages of 17-20/21 (the same period of time in which schizophrenia first manifests), most humans have a 'neurological misfiring' phase/episode... quite often a 'depressive' episode while at college, or a breakdown even. But it's also when many people have their first manic episode, which isn't necessarily 'scary' at all--it can be euphoric just as easily as it can be 'terrfying'. But adolescents are often unaware of the likelihood, so they can become paranoid or heavily promiscuous, they might go on a shopping or drinking binge...
Granted, in a hotel full of drugged up, poor, or otherwise unstable people, Elisa Lam's behaviour wouldn't have stood out. But in general, people need to LOOK at the people around them more, and to have a general understanding/knowledge of the basic appearance and presentation of such symptoms. It does not necessarily mean the person is 'permanently mentally ill', and there's no need to be afraid or to overreact (unless what they're doing is objectively 'dangerous'). The stigma associated with those behaviours makes people reluctant to recognise it, and it instills fear that can intensify anxiety or paranoia for the person experiencing it, which is unnecessary and potentially devastating. Hyperbole and denial prevent progress.
Be a good friend and a good citizen. Pay attention to those you care about and the people in your surroundings. Knowing what it 'looks like' will help you calmly and rationally deal with and help others.
(Also, one big tip: getting naked is VERY common during manic episodes. If your 'otherwise reserved' friend strips down, just help keep an eye open for other signs.) We need to be able to talk about these things to prevent unnecessary tragedy.
Well, that explains why my depression came into full horrible bloom at that age. Thanks, it helps me make more sense of things.
The stripping down part can also be a sign of psychosis progressing into catatonia. My ex used to overheat when he would be in psychosis and that’s when the clothes would get ripped off. It used the scare the shit out of me because his body would be so hot to the touch it was like he was running a fever
Really loving Callum's scripts so far. The research is fantastic and the humor is well-balanced with genuine empathy, something which especially stands out in this one. Bravo gents! 👏
Loving the empathy without dramatic/overly emotional tones.
Those are why I usually dislike this kind of shows.
I am a little bummed you skipped over the death metal artist. The thing is, he stayed at the cecil at a different time than Elisa, but because it was close the internet focused on him, and because he had some lyrics people thought they were coded confession. The internet destroyed him and he had a hard time recovering. He hasn't made music since because of how out of context his personal and music were take and the accusations against him, the level of harassment he was getting sent him to a dark place. It was sad and a perfect example of why internet detectives need to sit the F down. He was completely innocent.
Suggestion for Simon to cover the Richard Ramirez case 🙋🏼♀️
I second that.
I shall add a third
Totally up for that!
I shall second that a second time
I shall second that second second
The conspiracy channels that spoke about her case at that time made me so mad. They were all so rude towards how they spoke about her, her family and accusing people so aggressively. This video was fantastic and respectful.
To be honest, when this case happened the majority of criminology content on UA-cam was basically entertainment true crime, coupled with the fact that most people on this planet are desperately ignorant when it comes to recognizing mental health crisis, especially psychosis. I had an uncle that recently passed and used to have an ex that both suffered with schizophrenia and I didn’t recognize her movements and behavior that was caught on the CCTV footage as psychosis. And honestly, even when people are somewhat aware of the issues schizophrenia or bipolar disorder can bring, many people don’t realize taking off clothes and getting into water is something people do when in that state. It did come off as suspicious, considering she was a pretty girl that was by herself in a very sketchy hotel.
"i have several youtube channels." Simon being modest lol
he has so many channels the ggovernment will soon go after him for monopolizing the market
I’m pretty sure he has an addiction
@@lamppost7218 agreed lol
@@lamppost7218 same, or he could be trying to set some record
He wasn't being as humble as you thought. If you slow the video down to half speed and turn it to full volume you'll clearly hear him mumble "hundred" after he says several 🤣🤣
Bloody hell, I had a cold shiver down my spine listening to you list down her entire cocktail of medication. I realised I had been on all of them at some point. I fully understand why she didn't skip venlafaxine though, it causes some pretty damn uncomfortable withdrawal effects if you end up missing a dose or so.
Yes it's true. I found out the hard way. Missed it for almost 4 Days and on the third morning I was basically suicidal.
And withdrawal can begin if you miss even just one dose! I remember missing a day and dealing with brain zaps all day- don’t miss dealing with that medication anymore
@@GoodnessGreycious0 Yeah it's major pain in the arse. Haven't been able to get rid of it yet, I was getting major mood swings for well after a month after I quit so I resigned myself and starting taking that damn poison again..
@@GoodnessGreycious0is there an alternative SNRI that doesn’t have such disastrous effects when skipping just one dose?
@Tsumami__ Effexor actually has a longer half-life than its close relative, the SSRI Paxil. AFAIK, the two drugs in the same class which are the most similar are Celexa and Lexapro, with more people having success with Lexapro. Talk to your doctor, obviously, and all that, though. I'm not a medical professional, but I am permanently diaabled and almost died from an injury related to the extremely short half-life of Paxil, and being put on Effexor actually saved my life. I've since tried going from Effexor onto the similar two aforementioned drugs, but the withdrawal and tapering were just too brutal for me to even function.
What the online community did with this poor girl's case, and what they did to that poor singer, was and is despicable. They've hurt a grieving family and all but ruined an innocent man's life. It's just all so wrong.
yeah this video kind of glossed over that part, but i'm guessing he hadn't really spoken publicly about it until the netflix doc.
I feel so bad for this family. The look of pain on her Mother’s face while they were interviewing the parents broke my heart.
I've been seeing ads for a Ghost hunting show on Discovery exploiting this young woman's death. It is disgusting.
Very disgusting... It's all for $$. I really don't understand why people do things like this.
@@michaeltobias3110 Because people keep watching it? Lots of people find true crime and unsolved cases fascinating so if there is an audience for it then shows will be made about it. How respectful those are varies but there is no doubt an audience for this.
Yeah, that bothered me, too.
Something that needs to be mentioned about this case is how common it is for people who go missing during a manic episode to be found naked and/or in strange places like in a crawlspace or up in a tree. People having manic episodes can kinda turn into hyperactive little kids who go to play in dangerous places and get themselves killed.
The Jack Unterweger story might be a good one. For this channel or biographics
@20:30 Jen is legend! I love the ghosts in the background as Simon is voicing his sceptic's manifesto.
here’s a suggestion
DO RICHIE THE NIGHT STALKER
Way too well known
Well I mean Simon did say if we want to see it he'll do it. Got my upvote @Ross
He did it!
THANK YOU - this is the first coherent covering of the Elisa Lam case that just looks at facts without pushing the supernatural agenda. Also, there's a big difference between using someone's misfortune to create casual entertainment, versus soberly studying the facts and evidence. Casual Criminalist is definitely in the second category.
Shame this didn't come out a bit later, there's a lot more information on the new documentary, although hearing stuff on here I hadn't heard before too. For example, they did interview the guys seen meeting with her in the lobby, they worked for the bookstore, they found the box in the possessions. Also, with the lift, she was on the 14th floor (not where she was staying), can be seen by the top centre row button light disappearing as she clicks it, she also clicks the 'hold lift' button, which holds the lift for approximately 2 minutes, hence the lift not moving. The "alarmed" door was either not working, or ignored - working in property myself, 9 times out of 10, if you have a faulty alarm you're use to seeing go off, you learn to ignore it, or click mute. Furthermore, when they got up there, they found stuff everywhere to show people were up there regularly, either through the external ladder, or internal stairs. Loving all the content, my UA-cam search bar is pretty much every one of your channels!
I didn't see the documentary but am curious not seeing anyone else say anything about it... Was there a way for Elisa to climb out once she climbed into the tank in the first place? That'd be a simple oversight, one more likely to be made while manic, and if it was the case that she couldn't climb out, she could have been up there alive for days... Starving out in solitary confinement... Hopefully there was more information, at least some way of clarifying whether she'd hit her head or something else that'd prevent her from climbing out beyond there being no means. And how that'd affect the way people talk about her, maybe, idk, that kind of suffering would have been mad.
I commented several years ago on the video you did about exploding head syndrome. I've had it my whole life and honestly, it's not bad at all when you get used to it. I always know I'm about to fall asleep when I hear a deep man's voice shouting my name haha. But anyways, this was definitely my favorite take on this case I've seen so far. Many questions I've always had have been answered and it was incredibly respectful. Appreciate the hard work from you and your team! It's been cool to see your channels grow and improve through all this time
Thanks for being a Legend Simon. A lot of what you're saying about being tasteful about the victim is something I've been thinking about A LOT lately as I've watched some old crime shows on NetFlix and it's just so CREEPY listening to people, especially detectives, talk about victims, Especially women. I think the most infuriating one to me was a detective who kept describing a poor woman as "She'd get a second look" as if her being attractive in life was the only thing that made her worth anything. Simon, you and Calum are doing right by the victims with respect. Keep up the good work.
This most unfortunate woman was proven to have been off her medication for at least a few days before she died. We can be sure:
-Her mental health was such that she required some pretty heavy duty medications to be well.
-It's common for people to forget / run out of their medications at the best of times and much more common for those taking antipsychotics.
-Simply suddenly stopping such medications will have drastic mental health effects in addition to the now untreated baseline condition(s).
Without specific strong evidence to the contrary no further explanation is required for anything that happened here.
Hey, a pharmacist here: you're right about lithium and your drug pronunciations were pretty good! Also you're on the point about drug ads. In Germany for otc meds ads there must come a disclaimer to get advice by physicians or pharmacists
Same in the States. Years ago they couldn’t even advertise on the airwaves. Now it’s ridiculous.
"Despite its rough track record, there aren't any ghosts at the Cecil Hotel; it's just a place where the effects of drugs, despair, and deprivation have cropped up time and time again. That's about as close a thing to a curse as reality ever offers up." Writers like Callum are one of the big reasons I keep coming back to this channel. They not only do the research and get into the weeds, but they're also sensible enough to be able to read situations- and the people involved- astutely.
Simon could start a subscription service that just features all his channels 😂
Luckily, he gives it all away for free.
What you're looking for sounds like a playlist.
I started with toptenz now I am hooked on all these tip top channels by Simon an staff. Long live ETA. U totally got a great thing going. Cheers from across the pond.
Internet people: "The ghosts did it!"
Simon, king of internet people: "No they didn't. Please find out who did."
Nobody did anything omfg being psychotic is NOT improbable, the poor girl died tjere alone because she was sick. This video is INCREDIBLY heartless !!
@@emilieraptor9373 I was with you untill your last sentence.
@@emilieraptor9373 why is it heartless? Simon doesn't disrespect the victims/dead at all, he specifically said that he would rather talk about her life than the way she was found, for example. Obviously this channel isn't for you and that's fair enough, some of us deal with death in different ways. I personally prefer to laugh than cry when thinking of my dead loved ones but it doesn't mean I'm heartless and don't care, I just don't see what good crying and getting depressed does. There is a Netflix show about Elisa's disappearance that you might prefer, much more subdued and formal. ❤
@@emilieraptor9373 also, I don't think Alicia was being serious.
@@emilieraptor9373 someone put a lot of heart into this script, and it's painfully obvious you didn't watch the whole thing. Just like finish it the video and think about your stupid outburst in the comments section.
Venlafaxine was terrible for me. It made me hallucinate, dissociate, and become completely paranoid and detached from reality. There were times where I had to muster up every ounce of control to NOT drive my car off a bridge, run a random person over in a parking lot thinking they were going to kill me if I didnt, and lie down on the railroad tracks. It all became amplified shortly after I stopped taking it, but about a week later I was back to normal; depressed, but grounded in reality. It was the most terrifying 2 months of my life. I can see myself acting just like Elisa if I were alone and far away from anyone in my support system.
Suggesting that she was a victim of GHOSTS is a huge disrespect to the mentally ill and makes out conditions look like a joke.
It works GREAT for me. Isn’t it weird how different each of us is?
I had the same reaction to venlefaxine. It was terrifying.
I doubt very much that some of the internet “ sleuths” and conspiracy theorists care that much for this poor woman or her bereaved family. This is a tragic story of a life cut too short, and not a game. So many conspiracy theorists seem to overlook the harm that their half baked ideas can cause the already suffering families of the victims.
Well said 👍👍👍
I care for her enough that u r not gonna tell me she put her self n a water tower and her clothes came off trying to get out ,🥴
They may have started caring for Elisa but then (some) ended up caring more for the mystery element, IMO. I forgot what's the term but there are people who believe that extraordinary circumstances need extraordinary explanations.
Even before watching the Netflix docuseries, I guessed she was either on drugs or having a psychotic episode based on the elevator video. NOT ghosts. Not another person, whose "shoe" was seen (please.. it was her foot). If she was seriously running away or hiding from someone, why the heck did she pop out half of her body while looking sideways?
It's great that there were cases solved by web sleuths but they don't have all the information nor the skills and resources of law enforcement.
I don't even know if they have enough life experience to be so confident of what they are talking about.
Sorry a bit long ✌.. sort of venting.
It was quite upsetting when I saw the comments and clips of the youtubers and "sleuths". I was just hoping Elisa's loved ones did not watch those Fkd up theories.
Also upsetting were the keyboard warriors vs the Mexican Metal guy. I'm not into his music and art but jeez..they could've driven that man to suicide...and for what?!
That was a great ending commentary Callum.
@@crystalshanka5298 , okey, that's your opinion: keep it ti yourself.
You're not helping her or her family.
Loved the ghost in background for a bit. 👍 editing. And the small sound effects were a great touch
"This script is heavy, so this video might be long"
>Holds up script that seems a bit smaller than most Business Blaze ones<
So you get 3 times the content as long as Danny doesn't write the intro.
This was a really interesting and well-researched take on the case. Great work Callum! I'd always thought it was a strange case, not thinking there are ghosts or anything, just thinking the water tank business did suggest some foul play: this episode has really turned my mind from "suspicious death, maybe manslaughter or even murder" to "tragic death, the tanks were unsafe". I can't believe how few people have noticed the whole "the tank was just left open" part.
It's so sad to think of her last day as a manic/hallucinatory episode that ended in her death, and all those people drinking her corpse water, and her poor family being subjected to all the theories that gave them false reason to blame someone for murdering her, that slandered their dead daughter, and that exploited her death for spookiness and profit. It's bad enough when I run out of or forget to take my depression medication, it sucks so bad that running out of/losing/forgetting/whatever reason she was off her meds caused her to die.
The drinking of corpse water as a concept has always haunted me after hearing about it- Imagine just knowing you bathed in that, drank that, brushed your teeth in that, etc; you'd never forget the taste. Not the most tragic part of this case, but very disturbing
Simon, you are my go-to lull to sleep voice. Then I gotta re-watch when I wake up, because it was interesting right before my brain chose Cake or Death.
Well, we're out of cake!
Improbable Island?
Ahh love me some eddie. And same with the sleeping. I made my own Simon playlist to sleep to.
LOL! Simon's just gonna love what the editor put behind him when he was talking about ghosts.
Simon “Incase you don’t know I have several UA-cam channels”
Simon is modest... He has all the UA-cam channels!
I am like Thanos and some stones or something.
Thank you - both Simon & Callum - for your tasteful coverage of Elisa's mental health conditions. It's such a stigmatized discussion, and it's so frustrating. I'm on/tapering of some of Elisa's medications and it's a challenge to find the right combination to treat conditions like hers (and mine - I'm just not going to go into details about mine). As a note Lamotrigine is pronounced (la-MO-tra-jean), venlafaxine is pronounced (ven-la-FEX-ine), and the other is pronounced (QUEE-a-ti-pine). Just in case you come across them again. :)
Can I get a shirt that just says "There are Tigers in the Bushes"
“It’s just a place where drugs, despair and deprivation” have had their effects. Took me a moment to remember he was talking about the Cecil, thought he was talking about my town for a minute there.
Simon, start a skeptic channel. Skepticism needs some new media presence by someone that knows how to cultivate UA-cam clicks.
Clearly what Simon needs is more channels XD.
@@ImagineHeroism like you wouldn't subscribe
Agreed! I still listen to skeptoid from time to time, but Dunning doesn’t have the charisma of Simon.
@@Cincinnatijames Oh, I would absolutely subscribe!
Yes! Yes! SGU and Dunning are not enough!!!
I take Venlafaxine and I know it does have side effects! It can make you really dizzy at times and can make you forgetful or even have lost periods of time in your memory in extreme circumstances. I can see those massively affecting this case.
You and that chapter are the only two UA-cam channels who have used the like actual evidence behind the case and not a bunch of conspiracy theories
Yup, brains mess up sometimes. I have a sleep disorder called hypnagogic hallucinations (in which you start "dreaming" when you're nearly asleep, so you are essentially hallucinating, and it's almost as scary as sleep paralysis). When I was a teenager I thought it was ghosts, but I grew up since then. It's not ghosts, it's just a sleep disorder.
Mine were auditory as I was waking up. A sleep apnea machine made them go away. I'm glad
I, for one, would love a Richard Ramirez episode of The Casual Criminalist. Great videos Simon, love your channels!
I've seen several videos about this case, and yours is probably the most tasteful and thorough out of all of them. Not surprising though, these qualities are exactly what make the Casual Criminalist stand out from the sea of true crime UA-cam for me. Excellent job once again! 👌🏻
She was sick. Her death was correctly called an accident. She very likely had a mental breakdown because she was not drinking her medication as directed. Bipolar is horrible and if she had lost someone else's phone that night, it could have sent her into a manic episode.
Anyone with bipolar can tell you that the smallest thing going wrong will send you into either a depressive episode of hell or a manic episode of hell.
She snapped. She was probably having hallucinations. I feel for her and her family.
My only issue with this theory is how she got on to an alarmed roof, in to the tank. In her apparent mental state could or would she have been in the state to access the roof, by a method that did not set off the alarm (wouldn't the alarm have bought people to chase off whoever she thought was chasing her) and get on the tank by jumping not leaving a mark on her. I'm not saying that's not what happened, she could have done it all herself but at the same time I don't totally rule out other possibilities, like someone else being involved.
I've no time for ghosts, aliens or conspiracies but someone getting rid of a body, maybe.
Either way as you say very sad either way.
@@itarry4 there's a theory that the alarm wasn't working properly. Also accounts on whether the lid was open or not change depending on who and when the question was asked. I think it was a a horrible accident with a lot of unfortunate events happening one after another
@@LannasMissingLink yhea I mean I'm far more on the terrible accident side myself. Just stating the parts that I find troubling about the story as its generally told. I'm happy to accept that the alarm wasn't working and that the lid was off it just seems a bit of a stretch that such things wouldn't be made very clear in the police report on the event. That's 2 fairly important details for the police to not be very sure about if they are true or not at the time they were investigating. The alarm especially would be very easy to know one way or another. The lid not so much because I can easily see the Workman who was sent to check having his memory wrong. It's well known that people's memories of events are rarely totally accurate and the more shocking and unnerving the thing is, like a crime, the more the mind can lie to us about what we saw.
Thank you so much for covering this case tastefully, I know I can always count on that from any channel you host. The way the internet has treated this tragedy like some kind of side show attraction is really messed up and I feel so bad for her family. I feel like the case has also further contributed to the stigma surrounding mental health in our society. If you or someone you know needs help then please reach out, I know it's not always that simple. There is always hope.
I nearly shat myself when that ghost shadow popped up with the creepy sound effect when Simon's saying he's not a ghost believer! Good editing! Great content, but creepy as hell!
I have become obsessed with your channel. I love true crime and even one's I've heard before are so much more interesting the way you tell them. I don't think you should exclude any stories (such as ones that everyone tells) your way is unique.
Oh dang was not expecting this one and happy. Craziest theory about her incident, she was trying to play the Korean Elevator game
idk the Dark Water theory or the vacine theory where her name is backwards are seriously crazy
I keep thinking he is about to say “It’s your boy with the blaze” at the beginning.
I think hearing about the collar bomb heist (death of Brian Wells) would be super interesting with Simon speaking. I tried watching the netflix documentary on it but just couldn’t finish after they showed the actual footage of the bomb going off.
Love how regularly uploaded these vids are!
Nice to finally see a rational UA-cam /podcast about this case. All the others I've seen so far have been high on the supernatural/conspiracy theory angle. Mental health breakdowns can make you do some very strange things, that feel totally rational to the person experiencing it. Also if she hadn't taken her medication for the last day or so, an episode would be more likely.
What about the Dark Water film?..
Talking about biographies and Jack Unterweger: there is a counterpart of his, the first Austrian profiler Thomas Müller who received part of his training in the United States, and used his knowledge to identify the (allegedly) reconciled former prison inmate and poet Jack Unterweger as the culprit in a series of murders.
I work in mental health pharmacy and the brain is such a complex thing. It really is scary to think it could go work at any moment and can completely change your view of reality. Sounds like she had quite severe bipolar based on her medication list
Hi Trevor Hardy " Britain's forgotten serial killer" would be really interesting he was active the same time as the Yorkshire ripper he was arrested and released by the police and went on to kill again and there are other crimes he's suspected of.... Yet nobody has really heard of him. Absolutely love this channel my new favourite joint with business blaze keep up the awesome work. Simon has rescued my sanity thru this lockdown 😊😊😊😊
I always get aggravated when I see people discuss Elisa Lam's "suicide."
Did she stop taking her meds and go off the rails a bit? I think so.
Did she die a really miserable death by what could be described as "misadventure?" Absolutely.
The problem with calling it a suicide though is that suicide implies intent. I've dealt with suicidal impulses for over 20 years, and I don't think Lam went up on that rooftop to kill herself. I think she was having an episode and decided, at that time, the best thing for her to do was to climb into the water tower, only to not be able to escape later. Calling it a "suicide" is insulting both to her, and to anyone who actually deals with this problem, in much the same way that describing the death of a drunk driver who drove his car into a tree as a suicide.
I appreciate that you didn't do that here.
I would indeed like a casual criminalist video about Ricard Ramirez and another about Jack Unteregger please 😁
I really liked this, was calm, no overly distracting voice edits, and could really focus on the story, wish it'd come back to this
"Oi another video covering this. Wait is that Simon?! Hot dog let's hear it again!"
Really glad I didn't skip over this one as a "heard ot a million times". Worth the hour watch! Simon really went into details other youtubers didn't care enough to research. A real logical approach.
Wouldn't Elisa figure that she sounded the fire alarm when she went out on the roof? And then climbed inside the water tank to hide? When she heard sirens, which is common in a city with 15 million people she basically hid. She was hiding in the elevator on video to support my theory. Her hands appear to be describing the elevator to someone in the hall who most likely informed her to use the stairwell outside. Asian women are very shy, for the most part. So tragic. My deepest for her family.
1st Gen Korean usually take up names from the Bible. Joseph, John, and Peter seems the most popular I noticed
that's exactly how hashtags on tumblr work! you kind of just have your main post and most people tend to put extra thoughts/information in the tags like that. pretty normal thing to see on tumblr back then and still to this day.
It's bad enough I have to bring my own sheets to the hotel already...now I'm supposed to bring a barrel of water to bathe in?!
This is actually the first I’ve heard of this case. I’m glad I heard it here, Simon and Callum give us the facts while keeping it interesting.
Allegedly.
The few people already here; let’s pitch in for popcorn and catch up after the flick lol
Sounds good🍿🍿🍿🍿
As someone who takes venlafaxine for my depression, yes, any drugs that can help you mentally can also mess with your head. I was warned that when I started taking the drug or whenever my dosage was adjusted my brain might do some wierd things while acclimating. Sure enough, each time I adjusted my dosage amount, I would awaken in bed that night and see a weird shadow figure in my bedroom. It was definitely disconcerting, but by the third time I was half-heartedly kicking at it, muttering that it wasn't real, and telling it to let me get back to sleep. I can't even imagine what heavier drugs would do to the brain, especially when you're taking multiple kinds.
If you're trying to cover up a crime, you don't edit CCTV footage, you just "lose" it and then claim there was a hard drive failure, or the tape got lost, or whatever. I mean, any theoretical criminals would have had two weeks to do so, pretty stupid to do something harder and far more likely to be detected then show the entire world.
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this in the comments already but the two men with the box were employees of the book shop Elisa visited that day. The books were too heavy for her to carry around LA whilst she was sight seeing so the employees dropped them off later when she was back at the hotel.
OMG a channel with a hour of Simon? JACKPOT!
This might be the most tasteful take on this case i've seen. I've always been uncomfortable with how people love to speculate about what happened and even rational people talking about it seem to like to bring up the ghost theory as if it has some kind of real potential. I like how focused this video was on Elisa, not just the surrounding theories and rumours. It made her feel more like a reachable human with a tragic accidental end rather than the ghost infested, demon possessed victim many make her out to be.
Loving the new channel!
re: the weird use of hashtags - that sort of is how people tend to use them on tumblr. in the post people will write their main thought and then the tags are for like additional thoughts, things that will make your post too long, etc. and its very common to break into individual words/phrases because tagging on tumblr is less of a search function and more of a postscript to what you're saying
I had a Vietnamese friend named “Charlie.”
Talk about irony.
Did Charlie surf?
LOL
RIP ELISA. This is really informative. Thank You! I love this channel! 🌟🌟🌟🌟🌟
Simon, you should do an episode on the collar bomb heist.
I feel like you do a great job of making jokes when it’s appropriate and explaining why it’s important to hold off other times. It’s really refreshing tbh!
this is already better than that rediculous Netflix doc
Paranormal? No. Murder? Maybe. But tbh I think it just involved the hotel being incompetent. When Lam's parents sued, they demanded to know why the hotel didn't lock the water tanks, and management argued that they didn't have to because it wasn't illegal to leave your water tank unlocked at the time. In the Netflix doc, footage of the rooftop is shown, and you can see old pizza boxes and beer cans all over the place, implying people can get up there any time they want. The hotel wouldnt want anyone to know that. They also wouldn't want anyone dwelling on how they mislead guests into thinking Stay on Main is not physically the same building under the same management as The Cecil
Not all of us metalheads are satanists, dagnabbit! If Elisa had no trace of one of her meds in her system, could the men with the box have been delivering some?
she had them in her room though, no?
ive known several people over the years who felt they were "better" cos the meds were working, and then they stopped them, themselves, and had huge relapses. this kinda feels like that, to me.
@@thalivenom4972 I read somewhere else that she ran out of one; might've been inaccurate though
@@sugarandspikes6696 To my knowledge, they did a pill count and she actually had too many pills based on her prescribed intake
According to the Netflix documentary the video was indeed edited...by the police. They slowed down the footage, so potential witnesses have it easier to recognize Elisa Lam. Also according to documentary, the two guys were employees of the bookstore, which she visited before, who delivered some books to her.