All these explanation videos are for nought if there are no gameplay videos. I'm very interested in the project, but I won't back if I won't see how it works in practice. Expecially since the game is very expensive with shipping costing over 50€ and taxes on top (24% here in Finland).
I agree, the explanation of what the game is makes sense (puzzle story/adventure game) so the main question is do we like their puzzle mechanics. Nobody seems to want to give us examples of the puzzles and I don't want to back an expensive game if I don't know anything about the mechanics.
100% agree. It may be hard to describe or explain, but it shouldn’t be hard to put out a video of an intro/tutorial. ALL games, even Legacy games will have an intro video. No one cares if the very first thing in the game is “spoiled”, because it allows us to see how it works. What does a turn even look like? Show us an example of the choices you have to make once the very first game starts. And then what cards are in your hand, and how do you choose what to play in order to solve the challenges?! I still have no idea…
They had an in-house gameplay (which they seem to have since taken down), that all it did was confuse me more. The mechanism seemed intriguing, but I have no idea why you do the things you do. And the language they use makes it worse. It’s like listening to a politician, who talks a lot, but says so little at the same time.
Yes, I wish they didn't use so many new terms to convey what you are doing in the game. It feels like for such an abstract game they should have used common language to ground the theme of the game. I really appreciate your politician analogy. It's spot on. That's a bit how I felt about the first video BoardGameCo put out. Not that there was ill intent, but it will came across as a lot of explanation without substance because they are still trying to figure out the game themselves.
The whole BGG blurb on the game reads exactly like this as well. I checked that before watching any of these videos and decided I wasn't interested because of how vague and nonsensical it all sounded.
I went back to go find the video you’re referencing to see if I could give it another look hoping to understand better and couldn’t find it. Now I’m just left more confused than before
Ya, they took it down saying that want to provide something clearer. Probably because all the comments on the video at the time I watched it were along the lines of “clear as mud”….
This video is an example of why BGC is my favorite board game channel. You released two videos about a game. Viewers commented that they have needs that weren’t filled by either of those videos. You prioritized the little time you had between work trips to try to fill that need. And you did a great job. Thank you!
my only issue has been misinformation about the game being 1-3 players but in fact it is 1 player per a core box purchased. So if I want to play two players, I need to purchase two core boxes at around $200. It seems a little crazy. I love ON but I feel they need to find a solution or change the information on BGG and the Kickstarter.
Heard. This is a tough one to navigate, because its a solo game, but you CAN play it alongside others, so what do we do in these areas where it says "check a box of how many players this is". We hear you that we aren't nailing that messaging though, thanks for your honesty.
Super helpful! 2 questions remain for me: 1. What happens when a character dies? Do you start a new character and keep going or do you start the story back at the beginning? 2. Is there an overarching story of a realm, and what is the endgame? Is there some point you are trying to reach over the course of multiple character play throughs, or do you just stop when you want?
When a character's spark finally runs out (dies), there is a secret end of character type phase that will conclude your character and feed into your new character with passing down some things (again secret). You can then play a new game plus type experience with a new character. You new character will have different ambitions and ways they want to interact with the quests and the worlds, which are all saved and affected from your last character. Each realm will have it's own story arc based on the realm and what is there, but will also have a bunch of generic quests you can interact with and there are personal quests for characters as well which you can pursue in any realm so tonnes of content and different ways to move through it. I think the idea is that you can keep playing with different characters for as long as you want and more content will be created and each character will run thorough the content in different ways, but each character life will feel like a satisfactory gameplay that you could stop at, put the game away for a while and then return to with a new character at a later date.
So it’s a sandbox game that you can do whatever you want with an element of rogue lite that you can continue to give you more and more stuff to survive longer. But my question is, why go through all this trouble with a board game that you have to setup and tear down when there are many survival sandbox video games out there that makes everything so much easier to upkeep?…
Thx, I think I got most of that general structure. What I am still missing is a zoomed in look at the challenges. What does gameplay look like. In Gloomhaven I knew how the card play and enemy activation worked. In Spirit fire, all I know so far is that there are some abstract "maps" and I have to play cards. But how fun that part is will be crucial for my enjoyment of the game, so I need more details regarding the challenges. I think ONeb got that and are putting out a new gameplay video soon. I hope things will be clearer then.
I am still clueless on what the game is about. Keyword that I picked up is dungeon crawler + euro mechanism + LCG + no winning condition. Maybe the best way is to just show a tutorial round of the game like JonGetsGames does.
The one thing I keep thinking about is if this was a first time creator for Spirit Fire, there would be lots of red flags. The informations for the game are too vague and ambiguous. A good amount of people are confused and are backing strictly due to ONeb.
You’re absolutely correct. ‘Winning’ can come in different ways/forms. You can finish a journey, accomplish a goal or task, have the highest score, complete the construction of something. I’m sure I didn’t list them all.
I know it a long journey to the end of your spark in Spirit Fire, but I am intrigued and drawn in by the idea of being able to pass some of your knowledge down to the next character you play. It is like growing and evolving spiritually and then being able to pass that on to your child. In that way you have passed some of your knowledge on to them but they are still their own person. I understand what you reveal of the Realm is also passed on so you have opened opportunities for your child in that sense too. I am so very much intrigued by this and hope it has a very long prolific life with many expansions.
This seems to be a very unique game, and it makes sense why it’s hard to explain. My takeaway from following the videos and campaign is that it is truly a sandbox open world board game akin to a video game where we can just go do whatever we want at our own pace journeying through the realm and experiencing what it has to offer and overcoming challenges. Just with that concept I’m in. I’m sure other games have done that concept, but maybe not in the same way as Spirit Fire does. The lack of win/ loss condition makes sense here. I would love to just journey and experience the world and have challenges thrown at me. I love Vindication and Unsettled, and I trust them to deliver on this. It’s also refreshing to see a publisher use KS for how it’s intended. The hobby these days expects a completed game to be crowdfunded, but here we are backing something in development like it should be. Backing an idea that is ambitious, and I’m very excited to see where this goes. They’ve said more gameplay explaining content will be coming, but there is enough out there for a game in development to be intrigued and draw some conclusions based on it. This game feels like a breath of fresh air and trying to break the mold of what is expected of a fantasy adventure game.
Cannot overstate the amazingly positive impact this comment had in our office today. THANK YOU for your perspective, for sharing it, for your great attitude, and for being you. :-)
Do you think that it’s somewhat a response to how mission-focused Unsettled was? That game had exploration but you needed to keep going to finish in time. Here, the goals are secondary and the exploration the main focus.
By definition on google at least, a game is a form of play around a set of rules "decided" by some form of luck, skil, or strength. If SpiritFire doesnt have a "decided" state - then it sounds like a BoardExperience, not a BoardGame 🤔
It sounds like (and I've watched parts of their videos relating to the game) they've tried to encapsulate the literal human waking life experience into a game, substracting combat, but emphasizing choice, challenge and personal evolution for a completely open-ended story which you MAY be able to take your personal results back into your literal waking life experience. Therapy in game where you're the therapist, the patient and environment (figuratively speaking) attempting to evolve? I'm thinking this will be a very niche game because of the lack of combat and the lack of specified way to "win" (when it sounds like they way you win is to just play the game and give yourself into it's mechanic(s) and just see where you go/end up). The way the talk about it frequently veers into the way some people talk about the power of crystals. However, if I'm correct about what the game is really about, it very well may be a game for me. I'd think it won't sell well, but that it will sell steadily (given the ability to keep it in print), kind of like an album that 1000 people buy, 200 people love and slowly, steadily, other people will find their way to it, and more of those people won't necessarily be huge game players but this will be a major touchstone for them. The most challenging thing about the game is seemingly there's no combat. That probably short-circuits a lot of game player brains from the get-go. I'm very interested/intrigued. Thanks for the video. I'll check your vid the the Professor.
To me, promos for Spirit Fire remind me of a video shown to the good folks of Dunder Mifflin starring Christian Slater where they are being told about Sabre before the takeover. I just need Jim’s reaction after to put the cherry on top.
I have 2 issues with Spirit Fire. 1. Where is the game? Yes, I see the branching story paths but what makes it a game not just a dynamic story? I saw a bit of that in the Overview video that was posted yesterday and since removed. 2. What is my goal? I need to have goals in the game, defeating the game itself or other players are common goals in games. Wandering around looking for goals is odd. I would like to see some sort of intro that gives you different world challenges that you choose to pursue and to resolve. Defeat the evil whatever, bring life back to a devastated wilderness, etc. How you get there and how well you accomplish those goals would be an interesting branching story. But I can't tell if that is what Spirit Fire is!
Thanks Alex. Your video for sure helped. But I am still left with so many questions. I don't think I am the only one. I know Marc and Tom mentioned they will try to do a new video explaining how the game plays. Hopefully we see that soon.@@BoardGameCo
I was one of those folks that commented on your previous video. THANK YOU for taking the time to further explain. I am intrigued by the game. I just felt lost in understanding what the game is. Thanks again. This is greatly appreciated.
this comment is relevant to your observation that there are games we played fun rather than games we play to win. you reminded me of how it felt to play the game of Euthia solo. I always knew I was virtually certain to win so I wasn’t playing to win. winning was just how the game ended. I was playing the game for the sheer pleasure of how each game developed. -Toby
It should also be noted on the lack of win/ loss condition… if you fail to overcome a challenge in life, what do we do? We try to go at it again and succeed. That’s what this models. If we win a challenge spread in the game, we move on… if not, we try to play and win that challenge. There might not be an overall win/ loss condition, but there are challenges thrown at you that you can “win or lose” through your journey. I mostly play for the experience, I don’t care if I win or lose, but I still have fun.
It would be better if they actually explained in simple terms what the game consists of. I still don't know if there is deckbuilding involved between each challenge, I still don't know if the realms they intend to add later on will be expansions we'll have to buy or if they'll be added for free in a digital way, and I still don't know how much reading there actually is. Those are just a few of the questions I have on the top of my head, yet the Kickstarter campaign has already started.
Answering my own comment here: I looked into it more and actually the game seems to be heavy on deckbuilding, beating challenges, and unlocking new cards as you go along. That's what they should have said from the start haha :)
You know what is funny... many keep asking what it is, and I can't believe ONeb (or anyone) can't just "play a turn". How many story games burn one scenario to showcase the game? It is THIS simple. Maybe they have and I just didn't saw the video yet. I'll try to check their official videos later. ===Update=== Thanks for clarifying that this game is still not fully flushed in development. I think that is a great reason for me to hold off even more.
I'm confused about all the twisting about whether you can win or lose at Spirit fire. There are so many games that are simple score chases where you play through a session and then you receive a score at the end and it tells you how well you did and then you try to do better next time. Spirit fire is that and much more. There is an endpoint. The game does end and you have more or less success during that experience. It's just that the game doesn't come out right and tell you whether you did well or poorly since that judgment is left up to you based on the story that you experience and how much of it you experience versus how much you want it to. I think it's an important distinction between a game that never ends like myth wind and this one that does the game just resists telling you how well you did. They've also been quite clear that you can fail challenges and they've even given analogies to Dark Souls to compare the game too, which is that you may fail a challenge so much that you decided to stop doing it and go do something else. There seem to be a humongous amount of trade-offs. I'm not sure that this even deserves to be put in the same category as just sort of experience games with no win or lose condition and subsequently little to no challenge.
Alex, you’ve helped me and you’ve made me nervous. You did manage to give me a slightly better picture of what the game is like. I feel that since I play solo games, big complicated ones, games featuring fantasy, exploration, adventure, role-playing that I really have to try spirit fire. I’ve never played a euro game. I’m nervous about playing one, and I generally stay away from deck building games. but this one seems like maybe it’s approachable. I’m hoping for the best.-Toby
There are loads of euros that are amazing experiences solo. They're not going to be any more difficult to approach than any big adventure game. Just different mechanisms driving things. And why do you avoid deck building games? Do you not like them? This sounds more like a deck construction game, that you're not building during the game itself, but outside in the meta game, akin to putting a deck together for Marvel Champions, or Arkham, or LotR or any CCG. In either case, this doesn't seem like a punishing part of the game and seems pretty streamlined and straightforward. I doubt you're going to end up with a new stack of 50 cards at some point and have to deal with them, but instead just small amounts.
I feel that I’m not very good at deck building. playing Mage Knight was a very frustrating experience for me. however, in this game it seems like: if I’m not a great deck builder# I’ll still be pretty good, so I’m gonna try. -Toby
Sleeping gods... it sounds like the type of experience of sleeping gods... i've backed it, o-neb does great work IMO, so i'm hoping it's another home run.
exactly what I’m thinking. You have a limited time to explore a large world, you optimize your play to explore more and that exploration is more important than winning. maybe the mechanic shift from resource management/skill check to euro dice thing but the main idea sound similar, shouldn’t be that hard to explain.
I'm getting 7th continent meets Etherfields meets Snakes&Ladders feeling when I watch anything about Spirit Fire... and I'm not sure what to think of this feeling. Both 7thC and Etherfields are still in my collection, both where only played two times and feel like good games with big ambition that didn't quite succeed at convincing. Well, at the moment they feel like a waste of money but I still hope for both to bring them back to the table and enjoy them one day. What do you think of those comparisons Alex? Map exploration and dwindling "spark" feel very much 7th continent. The deckbuilding more like Etherfields. The "spreads" mechanik is the one thing is probably the one thing I need to grasp. It looks like snakes&ladders advanced and very repelling and immersion breaking in its abstact demeanor.
I may not understand Spirit Fire 100%, but I get where its going and I'm super excited for it!!! Plus, I've been playing World or Warcraft for 20 years and havnt won or lost that one yet!!!! (Whispers "Spirit Fire")
Alex with the rizz today. I kinda have mixed feelings. I like what ONeb does with their games. That being said, I play board games to play with other people. Having a game that is primarily a solo experience is hard for me to get out on my own table, particularly since it takes time to set up and tear down. (and finding tablespace at my home can be a challenge with all the clutter I have) Playing a video game is far easier for me if I want a solo experience. For example, I have never played a full game of Paperback Adventures, because it takes a bit to set up, and it takes a long time to play a full game. At some point, I need to put it away. Now, this is more designed to be set up and broken down (or at least, I assume it is), so it should be easier to get on the table. But, is the desire going to be there for me?
Alex, can you elaborate on what exactly a second character brings to the experience? It sounds like you spent most of the day playing that way. Are they just kind of along for the ride in another character's story, or do they add meaningful contribution that makes it easier or quicker to complete a spread / encounter? Do the spreads scale based on the # of characters (like in TMB) so that it doesn't really make it harder or easier, you just have more tools at your disposal? No one seems to be talking about this, but I'm interested in the ability to two-hand solo play. But before dropping another $100, it'd be good to know of there's even a point to doing that. Abstract example... maybe you have a character like young Skywalker whose life can be made easier by becoming an apprentice to someone that's further along in their journey, like a Master Yoda. Or would Skywalker get more out of an Obi-Wan who completed his journey and joined the Force? In short, is it better to have 2 playing at the same time, or keep it true solo, eventually run out of spark and pass on whatever legacy gets passed on for the next character (rinse and repeat)?
Players will encounter some puzzles and upgrades during the gameplay, which seems like an exploration game does. However the theme is too conceptual or vague as a game.
I’m sorry but I don’t buy it. There are around 125 000 games on BGG, I would argue none of them is hard to explain. Why should this game be? I’m not talking about the rules but the overall gameplay loop. I bet after a few people get their hands on it someone will find a way to explain it in simple terms. After all we already have an excellent vocabulary of board game concepts and it’s very, vary rare that it needs to be expanded. I think this is a little bit the O-Neb(ulous) cool-aid: they like to describe their game in very vague, abstract and ethereal words and focus strongly on narrative. It was with Vindication like that and with Unsettled too. I applaud their effort to bring something new and fresh to the table but sometimes I feel they make things sound more than what they really are. (I still enjoy them though 😉)
I appreciate that you made this follow up. I don't envy you in figuring out how to cover this *again* in "To Back or Not to Back." 😆 Since I'm broadly lumping this into a story-based RPG where O-Neb is the GM: was there a specific time where either you or Meg thought, "Wow. That was cool!" If so, could you share that story with us?
I'm a mechanics person, so yes, if you're referring to mechanics, but not for me in story. Additionally, the elements we got to see the least of, were the story elements?
Definitely mechanics count. Your thoughts on Gloomhaven/Frosthaven about this were on-point. I have one pal who loves when plans come together mechanically and probably doesn't even know what the FH story is about. I'm excited to get my copy of Unsettled because I think it will be compelling mechanically for the group and be a great change of pace. Before I rewatch the impressions video - did you already share a specific mechanics "cool" moment from Spirit Fire in it?
This "I don't really know whether this is my kind of game, but I trust ONeb enough that I'm going to give it a shot" sounds like a cult, but it's Ok to be in some cult these days when traditional religion fails 🙃
Trusting companies based on them delivering in the past isn't a cult, it's called past experience. It's true of companies like Oneb, Chip Theory, pick your favorite companies. If they have consistently made experiences you like...isn't that a good metric?
Blindly supporting game just because this company produced a game you like before is not the wisest approach - how you can be sure this new game provides you the same experience 🤔 only exclusion is surely CMON with Zombicide 🙂 even such company as CTG - like Too Many Bones, absolutely don't like Hoplomachus 🎩
I appreciate the followup Alex because I had NO idea how this game worked with your first (I didn't even finish that video). Oneb's campaign page also doesn't do a great job explaining the game. It's a lot of abstract flowery wording that sounds nice, but doesn't provide a clear picture. Even after this video, im still not completely clear on the gameplay and why you do what you do. The $135 CAD for a core box (that you can ONLY play solo) also hurts when you don't really understand how the game works. This is a game I'm going to wait for full reviews of. Once people have fully played the game and I can get a clear picture of what this game is, then I can decide if it's for me. Right now it kind of feels like a mishmash of mechanics and theme with no cohesive game.
Nice… I really love the way you try (very hard) to convey the massage and that you understand how hard it is to grasp the game and gameplay. Do you find it mentally and emotionally different dan other games because of the way of the game works or is it the same although system, type of challenges and progression are not done before?
I own Vindication, and I am intrigued by Spirit Fire. I have several solo games I am starting- Hoplomachus Victorum, Falling Skies and Hadrian's Wall. Are these games better than Spirit Fire, not convinced of that yet. They have been played though and have great reviews on this channel and others. So after watching the video and seeing ONebs' other videos, I think I am going to take a wait and see approach. If it is as great as ONeb believes it is, then it will be up on their store, or I can find it on the second hand market. Thank you for the explanation video, Alex.
In O Neb I trust! I've watched enough vids on the game to get the drift of what they are trying to do and O Neb have twice amazed me with the games they have created, I have no doubt they'll knock it out the park again with Spirit Fire.
One aspect you didn't discuss was the multiplayer experience. In watching through all the videos, it's clear they don't get that there's a large number of potential players who will want to always play with their partner... always. The game supports this, and they recently added an FAQ to clarify what you need to play it this way, but their rewards pricing doesn't back this up. They charge $99 for the core pledge including 1 character box and 1 realm box, but then ask for another $99 for an additional character box which is needed for this 2-players-who-always-share-a-realm play mode. It's clear from their comments in videos that they don't appreciate why people would want to play this way, and that's baffling.
To clarify, as it stands right now, every character box includes the Awakening realm and all the bonus KS stuff. So when you do the add-on you're simply buying another full version of the game, getting duplicated components, and saving a bit on combined shipping vs two separate pledges. Personally, I think they need to reevaluate this and break out the realms from being included in the character boxes. Make it a core module, decrease the cost by $20, then you add on whatever realm you want to experience and share it between how every many characters you want
@@G0F15H I'm okay with a core box/pledge that includes everything for solo play, but they could make an extra character box available for less than $99. I'm guessing they haven't done this simply because they didn't plan for a standalone character box yet, but hoping they understand the need for this before the campaign is over. There's no value to me to purchase 2 Awakening realms, so I can't back this unless they fix it.
As interesting and unique as the game seems and as much as I respect Orange Nebula to make a good game. The last year has kind of burned me on crowdfunded games, either not being as expected, incomplete, or needed more tweaking to really shine. And the. It seems a year later they come out with a upgrade pack or 2.0 version. So I’ll just wait for the game to come out, get some in depth play through as and reviews. Then I’ll know if the game is for me and get the 2nd edition.
I am where a lot of people are, I will back because I love playing solo and I k8ve unsettled. That said I love Earthborne Rangers and Sleeping Gods for the story and exploration and from seeing the video where someone from ONeb was trying to flee from the wolf i felt like doing the challenge was not thematic at all, it just looked like solving a ressource puzzle with a deck, hopefully fun but not thematic at all. But I hope I am wrong.
I am exactly in this headspace ^^ I watched every video on Spirit Fire available and I still don't really know what to expect, hehe. And I am not a solo gamer. That said: I love the worlds the ONeb Team is building. Loved every second of all my Vindication and Unsettled plays. So I am all in and I am very intruiged to what I will live through when it arrives. :D
i appreciate the video, honestly. didnt help at all unfortunately. attempting to explain an experience is like attempting to explain how bananas taste. it cant be done with any meaningful accuracy. i need to see the game played. its that simple. "its this idea, and that idea, and gives you this feeling".... ugh. O Neb is responsible for the sales pitch. i shouldnt have to trust or guess what it is they are selling. just my 2 cents
Crowdfunding feels like one great big sales pitch on loop these days. No sooner does a company promise their last whatever game is on the way, they are moving on to the next, and I loosely quote the developers own words, In many ways Spiritfire is the culmination of my entire career, pitch... which honestly looks like a loose idea and some really snappy graphics. But there is hope, I think the space needs another paid testimonial to really get the message out there where it can do some good!
I backed and cancelled on day one. I have no clue what the game was about or how to play but i was ok with giving them the benefit of the doubt because of their previous games. And I'm sure game will be good. Where they lost me is when i realized the cost for a single player game not a 1 to 3 player game. yeah 2 other can join my game and so there for it technically correct at 1 to 3 players. But being advertise as 1 to 3 player I assumed the game it self supports up to 3 players. Not that the game supports 1 player and 2 other players that own their own game can bring their character to my game. That's totally different. So, to play with the misses i would need to spend $256! Way too much for what the game is. I dont mind spending 200-300-400 on games... But all those games im able to play with 1 to 5 players with out of 1 game. no need to buy multiple of the same game. Like someone said... this needed to be advertised as 1 player not 1 to 3 player.
Still feels like it would be hard to pull this game out and "sell" it to a group... which I guess is not a problem, since it's mostly a solo game. But I wouldn't want to be a game store clerk trying to sell this game... which i guess is not a problem, as it's mostly sold on KS.... alright alright this is fine :3
So there isn't any combat? I'll pass. "By G'Quan I can't remember the last time I was in a fight like that. No moral ambiguity. No hopeless battle against ancient and overwhelming forces. They were the bad guys as you say. We were the good guys. And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor." The wisdom of G'Kar.
I backed it purely because its a solo game at heart. I have plenty of co op and/or pvp like games already. Plus Orange Nebula has a proven track record of delivering great games, I trust them, hopefully I am not wrong.
Love dice throne but don’t think I need any of the upgrades so will just wait for retail. Please keep the details I like it as I watch your rounds ups more than others now to help avoid getting to hyped
Feels like everything they're building on is our curiosity. Can't find any gameplay videos about the game. Dunno anything about the theme of the world really. Know only tiny bits about how a quest looks like. Don't know anything about how deep the story is or if it's a lighter story and rather a deckbuilder ... and since they say "You are the story" and my character is made up of deckbuilding cards, it may very well be just a light story and more a focus on deckbuilding and using your cards wisely for living long enough and completing quests. Sadly a pass for me. Too little information. Makes it also a bit suspicous.
I appreciate the approach, but it didn’t work…I think the main problem is you are not explaining this in gaming terms. You are using theme. I’m not sure if that is what the company asked you to do, but it’s very nebulous. How will the UA-cam video ‘games in under three minutes’ explain this? Is it a open world game, cube pusher with elements of TCG? Their past games have been very Euro and ‘cube pushing/resources building’. We gamers need something we can tether ourselves to help understand.
"How to get as much of the game experience within lifespan of your character" - do you mean to get as mush victory point before you're out of cards in the deck 😄
Think of all your favorite games, and how you can generally describe them in 20 words or less. Just saying. Also, vindication is a fine game. It’s a cube pushing efficiency puzzle, with all kinds of theme tossed in, theme that vanishes, like a whisper in the wind, after a few minutes of gameplay. I have a funny feeling this game is heading down the same path.
I’m in. It looks like an excellent game system and I’m anticipating with 5 years or so we’ll have at least 10 realms to explore. Then it’ll be pretty dynamic as an experience.
On the topic of whether the experience will last for 200 hours again, I think that that's applying a lens of something like bloomhaven where you're expected to play it over and over as kind of your only game all the way through and then put it away until a new one comes out. They have clearly said that they expect this game to be one that you play for a while, finish a story arc, play through a realm or two and then put away and return to maybe once you had a bit of space from it or once new content comes out. A big difference between this and loom haven is that if you want more gloomhaven content, you need to wait for Frost Haven which is another x hundred hour experience, whereas their realm boxes appear to be about 20 bucks, so it's much more likely that you could play this for a bit. Put it away and then when a new little expansion pack comes out, pick it up and play it for another 10, 20 30 hours
This isn't actually true! There's a surprising amount of really good fan content you can play, for free, using the base game materials. If all you want is more gloomhaven, there is plenty. A lot of games like that have a surprising amount of fan content that often rivals the official content. One of the gloomhaven fan campaigns is so good it got its own box release :D
I am excited for this game. I am going in for two reasons: Orange Nebula reputation and yours. The fact that you made another video to convey your view of the game is a sign for me that you genuinely are trying to let your viewers know that this game is special and brings a unique experience. I just received my Roll Palyer Adventure with extensions and you mentioning it makes me even more try it and compare it to Spirit fire (adventure and puzzle solving wise) when it comes out. Keep on the great work. Like the robe, looks comfy. Is your basement that cold 😉?
I really like Vindication and did not like Unsettled at all. So kind of like Tom Vassel. I wish there was a playthrough of this game, I wont back without one.
Huh, I'm surprised that this seems to confuse so many people. It basically feels like a 7th continent without the curse. You have the deck that determines how long you last there too, which can be prolonged, the exploration, the not-combat focused challenges (for the most part). This here seems less puzzly and more introspective, with more focus on characters, but otherwise it maps pretty well, I think. The main issue I see is that they use a lot of unique jargon, which makes it harder to understand. Kinda like Aeon Trespass, which uses a lot of unusual terms (Kratos tables, Mnemoses, etc) and caused a lot more confusion just due by the naming. I wonder if what people hated in 7th Continent will come across better here for the general audience. Failing "scenarios" is built in, and optimization can easily become grindy. Me, I'm intrigued, but also worried about the "Living game" aspect.
I wouldn't actually compare it to seventh continent in most ways, unless you referring to the general sense of trying to move forward. But past that, I do think it's a good general concept of other innovative game systems that aren't binary, win or lose.
I think it’s interesting that everyone is saying “I have no idea what this game is” while I’m sitting over in my house saying “from what I’ve seen, it seems pretty clear what this game is” 🤷♂️ I mean, I don’t know exact mechanics but I’ve played enough games where I am getting the general idea!
This game intrigued me quite a bit. I love storytelling and I love open-world, choose your adventure type experiences (like Sleeping Gods). But I really don't like deck building as a mechanic, so this game will be a pass for me.
OK, so bottom line: You have a life that gets diminished the more you "do things. You can expand your life, but not indefinitely. But are the things you do to extend your life "fun". Is it a fantasy theme? Or is it a weird, "no theme" type of game? All these abstract and "spin-type" answers are really turning me off on the game. So far it looks like I will pass. No use sitting at a game for hours on end, in a theme I will not enjoy.
Alex you did a good job trying to explain thia game but theres still allot of vague buzzwords being used a bit too much. The marketing plan for this game where the dev keeps telling us how its an amazing game & we just need to buy it while they show almost nothing on how everything interacts is a hard sell. So far all ive been able to determine is we wont fight in the standard way but will us wisdom as a skill check vs muscles, also theres no hp in the game just an ever ticking clock. They really need to show some gameplay on a semi developed charecter so we can understand how things interact. Spiritfire has become a total skip till a second printing once those who were brave enough to buy it have had time to play & actually review the game.
I think content creators need to be extra careful whenever they talk about this game, seeing as it's very different and difficult to understand, which might lead people to put money into it based on opinions of creators who they value. I'm not saying you're not being careful with it, just that it's something to keep in mind :)
If ON would just do a simple "first level" playthrough and wake through the mechanics on their KS then that would clear up a lot of the confusion. In their videos they want to use this mystical nebulous language and it doesn't help the players and backers understand what they are talking about. If I as a customer have no idea what you are trying to sell me, then why would I want to give you money?
Another masterful discussion! I backed it based on the fact that Orange Nebula has created amazing high quality engaging games and to be honest, I recently bought the Ancient Archive Vindication based on your opinion of it. I hope to buy Unsettled for the same reason.
All these explanation videos are for nought if there are no gameplay videos. I'm very interested in the project, but I won't back if I won't see how it works in practice. Expecially since the game is very expensive with shipping costing over 50€ and taxes on top (24% here in Finland).
I agree, the explanation of what the game is makes sense (puzzle story/adventure game) so the main question is do we like their puzzle mechanics. Nobody seems to want to give us examples of the puzzles and I don't want to back an expensive game if I don't know anything about the mechanics.
100% agree. It may be hard to describe or explain, but it shouldn’t be hard to put out a video of an intro/tutorial. ALL games, even Legacy games will have an intro video. No one cares if the very first thing in the game is “spoiled”, because it allows us to see how it works.
What does a turn even look like? Show us an example of the choices you have to make once the very first game starts. And then what cards are in your hand, and how do you choose what to play in order to solve the challenges?! I still have no idea…
They had an in-house gameplay (which they seem to have since taken down), that all it did was confuse me more. The mechanism seemed intriguing, but I have no idea why you do the things you do. And the language they use makes it worse. It’s like listening to a politician, who talks a lot, but says so little at the same time.
Yes, I wish they didn't use so many new terms to convey what you are doing in the game. It feels like for such an abstract game they should have used common language to ground the theme of the game. I really appreciate your politician analogy. It's spot on. That's a bit how I felt about the first video BoardGameCo put out. Not that there was ill intent, but it will came across as a lot of explanation without substance because they are still trying to figure out the game themselves.
The whole BGG blurb on the game reads exactly like this as well. I checked that before watching any of these videos and decided I wasn't interested because of how vague and nonsensical it all sounded.
I went back to go find the video you’re referencing to see if I could give it another look hoping to understand better and couldn’t find it. Now I’m just left more confused than before
Ya, they took it down saying that want to provide something clearer. Probably because all the comments on the video at the time I watched it were along the lines of “clear as mud”….
It's a cool concept. But too much reading . If audio narration was provided then maybe
This video is an example of why BGC is my favorite board game channel. You released two videos about a game. Viewers commented that they have needs that weren’t filled by either of those videos. You prioritized the little time you had between work trips to try to fill that need. And you did a great job. Thank you!
my only issue has been misinformation about the game being 1-3 players but in fact it is 1 player per a core box purchased. So if I want to play two players, I need to purchase two core boxes at around $200. It seems a little crazy. I love ON but I feel they need to find a solution or change the information on BGG and the Kickstarter.
Heard. This is a tough one to navigate, because its a solo game, but you CAN play it alongside others, so what do we do in these areas where it says "check a box of how many players this is". We hear you that we aren't nailing that messaging though, thanks for your honesty.
I agree. I had to do some digging to figure that out
I'm here for the robe! Where did you get it? Dig it!
I think the complexity here comes not from the new and innovative premise, but the lack of actual gameplay videos
I need to see it demo'd to get it. I have read the kickstarter and watched multiple videos. I still don't get it.
Too much unknown for me to back this at this point but will keep watching and reading reviews as time goes on.
Super helpful! 2 questions remain for me:
1. What happens when a character dies? Do you start a new character and keep going or do you start the story back at the beginning?
2. Is there an overarching story of a realm, and what is the endgame? Is there some point you are trying to reach over the course of multiple character play throughs, or do you just stop when you want?
When a character's spark finally runs out (dies), there is a secret end of character type phase that will conclude your character and feed into your new character with passing down some things (again secret). You can then play a new game plus type experience with a new character. You new character will have different ambitions and ways they want to interact with the quests and the worlds, which are all saved and affected from your last character. Each realm will have it's own story arc based on the realm and what is there, but will also have a bunch of generic quests you can interact with and there are personal quests for characters as well which you can pursue in any realm so tonnes of content and different ways to move through it. I think the idea is that you can keep playing with different characters for as long as you want and more content will be created and each character will run thorough the content in different ways, but each character life will feel like a satisfactory gameplay that you could stop at, put the game away for a while and then return to with a new character at a later date.
So it’s a sandbox game that you can do whatever you want with an element of rogue lite that you can continue to give you more and more stuff to survive longer. But my question is, why go through all this trouble with a board game that you have to setup and tear down when there are many survival sandbox video games out there that makes everything so much easier to upkeep?…
I'm in the "I don't really know whether this is my kind of game, but I trust ONeb enough that I'm going to give it a shot" camp.
Love the philosophical nature of this discussion on “why we play games.”
You made some great points that got me re-thinking some old ideas.
I'm glad you enjoyed!
Thx, I think I got most of that general structure. What I am still missing is a zoomed in look at the challenges. What does gameplay look like. In Gloomhaven I knew how the card play and enemy activation worked. In Spirit fire, all I know so far is that there are some abstract "maps" and I have to play cards. But how fun that part is will be crucial for my enjoyment of the game, so I need more details regarding the challenges. I think ONeb got that and are putting out a new gameplay video soon. I hope things will be clearer then.
I am still clueless on what the game is about.
Keyword that I picked up is dungeon crawler + euro mechanism + LCG + no winning condition.
Maybe the best way is to just show a tutorial round of the game like JonGetsGames does.
The one thing I keep thinking about is if this was a first time creator for Spirit Fire, there would be lots of red flags. The informations for the game are too vague and ambiguous. A good amount of people are confused and are backing strictly due to ONeb.
I agree. But that's also where I was for unsettled
You’re absolutely correct. ‘Winning’ can come in different ways/forms. You can finish a journey, accomplish a goal or task, have the highest score, complete the construction of something. I’m sure I didn’t list them all.
What happens if you can't solve the puzzle?
I know it a long journey to the end of your spark in Spirit Fire, but I am intrigued and drawn in by the idea of being able to pass some of your knowledge down to the next character you play. It is like growing and evolving spiritually and then being able to pass that on to your child. In that way you have passed some of your knowledge on to them but they are still their own person. I understand what you reveal of the Realm is also passed on so you have opened opportunities for your child in that sense too. I am so very much intrigued by this and hope it has a very long prolific life with many expansions.
The OOM game you were thinking of was Stonesaga
Where 👏 do 👏 I 👏 get 👏 that 👏 robe!?
Lunafide :)
This seems to be a very unique game, and it makes sense why it’s hard to explain. My takeaway from following the videos and campaign is that it is truly a sandbox open world board game akin to a video game where we can just go do whatever we want at our own pace journeying through the realm and experiencing what it has to offer and overcoming challenges. Just with that concept I’m in. I’m sure other games have done that concept, but maybe not in the same way as Spirit Fire does. The lack of win/ loss condition makes sense here. I would love to just journey and experience the world and have challenges thrown at me. I love Vindication and Unsettled, and I trust them to deliver on this. It’s also refreshing to see a publisher use KS for how it’s intended. The hobby these days expects a completed game to be crowdfunded, but here we are backing something in development like it should be. Backing an idea that is ambitious, and I’m very excited to see where this goes. They’ve said more gameplay explaining content will be coming, but there is enough out there for a game in development to be intrigued and draw some conclusions based on it. This game feels like a breath of fresh air and trying to break the mold of what is expected of a fantasy adventure game.
Cannot overstate the amazingly positive impact this comment had in our office today. THANK YOU for your perspective, for sharing it, for your great attitude, and for being you. :-)
Do you think that it’s somewhat a response to how mission-focused Unsettled was? That game had exploration but you needed to keep going to finish in time. Here, the goals are secondary and the exploration the main focus.
How do you call a robe like that? I think this would make an awesome christmas present for my mother.
Look up lunafide
By definition on google at least, a game is a form of play around a set of rules "decided" by some form of luck, skil, or strength. If SpiritFire doesnt have a "decided" state - then it sounds like a BoardExperience, not a BoardGame 🤔
It sounds like (and I've watched parts of their videos relating to the game) they've tried to encapsulate the literal human waking life experience into a game, substracting combat, but emphasizing choice, challenge and personal evolution for a completely open-ended story which you MAY be able to take your personal results back into your literal waking life experience. Therapy in game where you're the therapist, the patient and environment (figuratively speaking) attempting to evolve? I'm thinking this will be a very niche game because of the lack of combat and the lack of specified way to "win" (when it sounds like they way you win is to just play the game and give yourself into it's mechanic(s) and just see where you go/end up). The way the talk about it frequently veers into the way some people talk about the power of crystals.
However, if I'm correct about what the game is really about, it very well may be a game for me. I'd think it won't sell well, but that it will sell steadily (given the ability to keep it in print), kind of like an album that 1000 people buy, 200 people love and slowly, steadily, other people will find their way to it, and more of those people won't necessarily be huge game players but this will be a major touchstone for them. The most challenging thing about the game is seemingly there's no combat. That probably short-circuits a lot of game player brains from the get-go.
I'm very interested/intrigued. Thanks for the video. I'll check your vid the the Professor.
Thank you for explaining it. I think I have a better grasp and I'm intrigued
I'm glad I was able to help to some degree
To me, promos for Spirit Fire remind me of a video shown to the good folks of Dunder Mifflin starring Christian Slater where they are being told about Sabre before the takeover. I just need Jim’s reaction after to put the cherry on top.
I have 2 issues with Spirit Fire. 1. Where is the game? Yes, I see the branching story paths but what makes it a game not just a dynamic story? I saw a bit of that in the Overview video that was posted yesterday and since removed. 2. What is my goal? I need to have goals in the game, defeating the game itself or other players are common goals in games. Wandering around looking for goals is odd. I would like to see some sort of intro that gives you different world challenges that you choose to pursue and to resolve. Defeat the evil whatever, bring life back to a devastated wilderness, etc. How you get there and how well you accomplish those goals would be an interesting branching story. But I can't tell if that is what Spirit Fire is!
Those are elements that I can't fully answer. While we did see aspects of the story, it's definitely the part that we saw the least of.
Thanks Alex. Your video for sure helped. But I am still left with so many questions. I don't think I am the only one. I know Marc and Tom mentioned they will try to do a new video explaining how the game plays. Hopefully we see that soon.@@BoardGameCo
I was one of those folks that commented on your previous video. THANK YOU for taking the time to further explain. I am intrigued by the game. I just felt lost in understanding what the game is. Thanks again. This is greatly appreciated.
this comment is relevant to your observation that there are games we played fun rather than games we play to win. you reminded me of how it felt to play the game of Euthia solo. I always knew I was virtually certain to win so I wasn’t playing to win. winning was just how the game ended. I was playing the game for the sheer pleasure of how each game developed. -Toby
Not spirit fire related… where did you get that jacket?!? I love it!
Alex is a very stylish man
Pimpgameco 🔥
Lol thanks
😂
So it's Shemue with euro-puzzle events instead of QuickTime events.
It should also be noted on the lack of win/ loss condition… if you fail to overcome a challenge in life, what do we do? We try to go at it again and succeed. That’s what this models. If we win a challenge spread in the game, we move on… if not, we try to play and win that challenge. There might not be an overall win/ loss condition, but there are challenges thrown at you that you can “win or lose” through your journey. I mostly play for the experience, I don’t care if I win or lose, but I still have fun.
It would be better if they actually explained in simple terms what the game consists of. I still don't know if there is deckbuilding involved between each challenge, I still don't know if the realms they intend to add later on will be expansions we'll have to buy or if they'll be added for free in a digital way, and I still don't know how much reading there actually is. Those are just a few of the questions I have on the top of my head, yet the Kickstarter campaign has already started.
Answering my own comment here: I looked into it more and actually the game seems to be heavy on deckbuilding, beating challenges, and unlocking new cards as you go along. That's what they should have said from the start haha :)
Thank you for the breakdown; I did not realize it is an epic solo game. Feels like it really should be a video game.
How does it compare to Sleeping Gods?
I’m so darn excited for this game! Also, so much of it sounds very similar to Earthborne Rangers, which i have been absolutely adoring!
You know what is funny... many keep asking what it is, and I can't believe ONeb (or anyone) can't just "play a turn". How many story games burn one scenario to showcase the game? It is THIS simple. Maybe they have and I just didn't saw the video yet. I'll try to check their official videos later.
===Update===
Thanks for clarifying that this game is still not fully flushed in development. I think that is a great reason for me to hold off even more.
I think there's enough there to showcase aspects of the game but it would involve jumping in in the middle
WHy not, if you are designing a game, design a tutorial scenario that you can showcase the game with, even something generic?
Im probably going to skip this. I've kinda bounced off Vindication and Unsettled, it feels like ONebs approach to cube pushing doesn't do it for me.
I have no idea how this game plays... and at this point I'm too afraid to ask... again
Lol sorry, it's a lot of fun, but I agree its not the easiest to understand.
I'm confused about all the twisting about whether you can win or lose at Spirit fire. There are so many games that are simple score chases where you play through a session and then you receive a score at the end and it tells you how well you did and then you try to do better next time. Spirit fire is that and much more. There is an endpoint. The game does end and you have more or less success during that experience. It's just that the game doesn't come out right and tell you whether you did well or poorly since that judgment is left up to you based on the story that you experience and how much of it you experience versus how much you want it to. I think it's an important distinction between a game that never ends like myth wind and this one that does the game just resists telling you how well you did. They've also been quite clear that you can fail challenges and they've even given analogies to Dark Souls to compare the game too, which is that you may fail a challenge so much that you decided to stop doing it and go do something else. There seem to be a humongous amount of trade-offs. I'm not sure that this even deserves to be put in the same category as just sort of experience games with no win or lose condition and subsequently little to no challenge.
Alex, you’ve helped me and you’ve made me nervous. You did manage to give me a slightly better picture of what the game is like. I feel that since I play solo games, big complicated ones, games featuring fantasy, exploration, adventure, role-playing that I really have to try spirit fire. I’ve never played a euro game. I’m nervous about playing one, and I generally stay away from deck building games. but this one seems like maybe it’s approachable. I’m hoping for the best.-Toby
There are loads of euros that are amazing experiences solo. They're not going to be any more difficult to approach than any big adventure game. Just different mechanisms driving things.
And why do you avoid deck building games? Do you not like them? This sounds more like a deck construction game, that you're not building during the game itself, but outside in the meta game, akin to putting a deck together for Marvel Champions, or Arkham, or LotR or any CCG. In either case, this doesn't seem like a punishing part of the game and seems pretty streamlined and straightforward. I doubt you're going to end up with a new stack of 50 cards at some point and have to deal with them, but instead just small amounts.
I feel that I’m not very good at deck building. playing Mage Knight was a very frustrating experience for me. however, in this game it seems like: if I’m not a great deck builder# I’ll still be pretty good, so I’m gonna try. -Toby
Sleeping gods... it sounds like the type of experience of sleeping gods... i've backed it, o-neb does great work IMO, so i'm hoping it's another home run.
exactly what I’m thinking. You have a limited time to explore a large world, you optimize your play to explore more and that exploration is more important than winning. maybe the mechanic shift from resource management/skill check to euro dice thing but the main idea sound similar, shouldn’t be that hard to explain.
I'm getting 7th continent meets Etherfields meets Snakes&Ladders feeling when I watch anything about Spirit Fire... and I'm not sure what to think of this feeling. Both 7thC and Etherfields are still in my collection, both where only played two times and feel like good games with big ambition that didn't quite succeed at convincing. Well, at the moment they feel like a waste of money but I still hope for both to bring them back to the table and enjoy them one day.
What do you think of those comparisons Alex?
Map exploration and dwindling "spark" feel very much 7th continent.
The deckbuilding more like Etherfields.
The "spreads" mechanik is the one thing is probably the one thing I need to grasp. It looks like snakes&ladders advanced and very repelling and immersion breaking in its abstact demeanor.
I may not understand Spirit Fire 100%, but I get where its going and I'm super excited for it!!! Plus, I've been playing World or Warcraft for 20 years and havnt won or lost that one yet!!!! (Whispers "Spirit Fire")
Alex with the rizz today.
I kinda have mixed feelings. I like what ONeb does with their games. That being said, I play board games to play with other people. Having a game that is primarily a solo experience is hard for me to get out on my own table, particularly since it takes time to set up and tear down. (and finding tablespace at my home can be a challenge with all the clutter I have) Playing a video game is far easier for me if I want a solo experience. For example, I have never played a full game of Paperback Adventures, because it takes a bit to set up, and it takes a long time to play a full game. At some point, I need to put it away.
Now, this is more designed to be set up and broken down (or at least, I assume it is), so it should be easier to get on the table. But, is the desire going to be there for me?
Rollplayer Adventures + Gloomhaven sounds awesome to me. I'm taking a flyer on this based on ONeb's track record thus far.
I hope it works out for you :)
Alex, can you elaborate on what exactly a second character brings to the experience? It sounds like you spent most of the day playing that way. Are they just kind of along for the ride in another character's story, or do they add meaningful contribution that makes it easier or quicker to complete a spread / encounter? Do the spreads scale based on the # of characters (like in TMB) so that it doesn't really make it harder or easier, you just have more tools at your disposal? No one seems to be talking about this, but I'm interested in the ability to two-hand solo play. But before dropping another $100, it'd be good to know of there's even a point to doing that. Abstract example... maybe you have a character like young Skywalker whose life can be made easier by becoming an apprentice to someone that's further along in their journey, like a Master Yoda. Or would Skywalker get more out of an Obi-Wan who completed his journey and joined the Force? In short, is it better to have 2 playing at the same time, or keep it true solo, eventually run out of spark and pass on whatever legacy gets passed on for the next character (rinse and repeat)?
Alex, THANK YOU for this video!
Glad it was helpful!
Players will encounter some puzzles and upgrades during the gameplay, which seems like an exploration game does. However the theme is too conceptual or vague as a game.
I can understand that
I’m sorry but I don’t buy it. There are around 125 000 games on BGG, I would argue none of them is hard to explain. Why should this game be? I’m not talking about the rules but the overall gameplay loop. I bet after a few people get their hands on it someone will find a way to explain it in simple terms.
After all we already have an excellent vocabulary of board game concepts and it’s very, vary rare that it needs to be expanded.
I think this is a little bit the O-Neb(ulous) cool-aid: they like to describe their game in very vague, abstract and ethereal words and focus strongly on narrative. It was with Vindication like that and with Unsettled too. I applaud their effort to bring something new and fresh to the table but sometimes I feel they make things sound more than what they really are. (I still enjoy them though 😉)
I appreciate that you made this follow up. I don't envy you in figuring out how to cover this *again* in "To Back or Not to Back." 😆
Since I'm broadly lumping this into a story-based RPG where O-Neb is the GM: was there a specific time where either you or Meg thought, "Wow. That was cool!" If so, could you share that story with us?
I'm a mechanics person, so yes, if you're referring to mechanics, but not for me in story. Additionally, the elements we got to see the least of, were the story elements?
Definitely mechanics count. Your thoughts on Gloomhaven/Frosthaven about this were on-point. I have one pal who loves when plans come together mechanically and probably doesn't even know what the FH story is about. I'm excited to get my copy of Unsettled because I think it will be compelling mechanically for the group and be a great change of pace. Before I rewatch the impressions video - did you already share a specific mechanics "cool" moment from Spirit Fire in it?
Brave to attempt this. Good robe choice
This "I don't really know whether this is my kind of game, but I trust ONeb enough that I'm going to give it a shot" sounds like a cult, but it's Ok to be in some cult these days when traditional religion fails 🙃
Trusting companies based on them delivering in the past isn't a cult, it's called past experience. It's true of companies like Oneb, Chip Theory, pick your favorite companies. If they have consistently made experiences you like...isn't that a good metric?
Blindly supporting game just because this company produced a game you like before is not the wisest approach - how you can be sure this new game provides you the same experience 🤔 only exclusion is surely CMON with Zombicide 🙂 even such company as CTG - like Too Many Bones, absolutely don't like Hoplomachus 🎩
Luxury solo game with lots of pitchings from tabletop streamers, but without gameplay. Nice
I appreciate the followup Alex because I had NO idea how this game worked with your first (I didn't even finish that video).
Oneb's campaign page also doesn't do a great job explaining the game. It's a lot of abstract flowery wording that sounds nice, but doesn't provide a clear picture.
Even after this video, im still not completely clear on the gameplay and why you do what you do. The $135 CAD for a core box (that you can ONLY play solo) also hurts when you don't really understand how the game works.
This is a game I'm going to wait for full reviews of. Once people have fully played the game and I can get a clear picture of what this game is, then I can decide if it's for me. Right now it kind of feels like a mishmash of mechanics and theme with no cohesive game.
Nice… I really love the way you try (very hard) to convey the massage and that you understand how hard it is to grasp the game and gameplay.
Do you find it mentally and emotionally different dan other games because of the way of the game works or is it the same although system, type of challenges and progression are not done before?
Spirit Fire is - throw money at ALL board game content creators and this will hopefully make them back it.
Who got money?
I own Vindication, and I am intrigued by Spirit Fire. I have several solo games I am starting- Hoplomachus Victorum, Falling Skies and Hadrian's Wall. Are these games better than Spirit Fire, not convinced of that yet. They have been played though and have great reviews on this channel and others. So after watching the video and seeing ONebs' other videos, I think I am going to take a wait and see approach. If it is as great as ONeb believes it is, then it will be up on their store, or I can find it on the second hand market. Thank you for the explanation video, Alex.
I have faith in O-Neb and have backed the game, but all of their promotional material thus far sounds like recruitment videos for a hippie cult
That robe is fire...
In O Neb I trust! I've watched enough vids on the game to get the drift of what they are trying to do and O Neb have twice amazed me with the games they have created, I have no doubt they'll knock it out the park again with Spirit Fire.
Vindication is one of the best designed games of all times, granted.
Agreed :)
One aspect you didn't discuss was the multiplayer experience. In watching through all the videos, it's clear they don't get that there's a large number of potential players who will want to always play with their partner... always. The game supports this, and they recently added an FAQ to clarify what you need to play it this way, but their rewards pricing doesn't back this up. They charge $99 for the core pledge including 1 character box and 1 realm box, but then ask for another $99 for an additional character box which is needed for this 2-players-who-always-share-a-realm play mode. It's clear from their comments in videos that they don't appreciate why people would want to play this way, and that's baffling.
To clarify, as it stands right now, every character box includes the Awakening realm and all the bonus KS stuff. So when you do the add-on you're simply buying another full version of the game, getting duplicated components, and saving a bit on combined shipping vs two separate pledges. Personally, I think they need to reevaluate this and break out the realms from being included in the character boxes. Make it a core module, decrease the cost by $20, then you add on whatever realm you want to experience and share it between how every many characters you want
@@G0F15H I'm okay with a core box/pledge that includes everything for solo play, but they could make an extra character box available for less than $99. I'm guessing they haven't done this simply because they didn't plan for a standalone character box yet, but hoping they understand the need for this before the campaign is over. There's no value to me to purchase 2 Awakening realms, so I can't back this unless they fix it.
As interesting and unique as the game seems and as much as I respect Orange Nebula to make a good game. The last year has kind of burned me on crowdfunded games, either not being as expected, incomplete, or needed more tweaking to really shine. And the. It seems a year later they come out with a upgrade pack or 2.0 version.
So I’ll just wait for the game to come out, get some in depth play through as and reviews. Then I’ll know if the game is for me and get the 2nd edition.
Totally respect that, there's nothing wrong with waiting to see if a game is for you.
I am where a lot of people are, I will back because I love playing solo and I k8ve unsettled.
That said I love Earthborne Rangers and Sleeping Gods for the story and exploration and from seeing the video where someone from ONeb was trying to flee from the wolf i felt like doing the challenge was not thematic at all, it just looked like solving a ressource puzzle with a deck, hopefully fun but not thematic at all. But I hope I am wrong.
I am exactly in this headspace ^^
I watched every video on Spirit Fire available and I still don't really know what to expect, hehe. And I am not a solo gamer. That said: I love the worlds the ONeb Team is building. Loved every second of all my Vindication and Unsettled plays. So I am all in and I am very intruiged to what I will live through when it arrives. :D
i appreciate the video, honestly. didnt help at all unfortunately. attempting to explain an experience is like attempting to explain how bananas taste. it cant be done with any meaningful accuracy. i need to see the game played. its that simple. "its this idea, and that idea, and gives you this feeling".... ugh. O Neb is responsible for the sales pitch. i shouldnt have to trust or guess what it is they are selling.
just my 2 cents
Crowdfunding feels like one great big sales pitch on loop these days. No sooner does a company promise their last whatever game is on the way, they are moving on to the next, and I loosely quote the developers own words, In many ways Spiritfire is the culmination of my entire career, pitch... which honestly looks like a loose idea and some really snappy graphics. But there is hope, I think the space needs another paid testimonial to really get the message out there where it can do some good!
I backed and cancelled on day one. I have no clue what the game was about or how to play but i was ok with giving them the benefit of the doubt because of their previous games. And I'm sure game will be good. Where they lost me is when i realized the cost for a single player game not a 1 to 3 player game. yeah 2 other can join my game and so there for it technically correct at 1 to 3 players. But being advertise as 1 to 3 player I assumed the game it self supports up to 3 players. Not that the game supports 1 player and 2 other players that own their own game can bring their character to my game. That's totally different. So, to play with the misses i would need to spend $256! Way too much for what the game is. I dont mind spending 200-300-400 on games... But all those games im able to play with 1 to 5 players with out of 1 game. no need to buy multiple of the same game. Like someone said... this needed to be advertised as 1 player not 1 to 3 player.
I totally get that.
Still feels like it would be hard to pull this game out and "sell" it to a group... which I guess is not a problem, since it's mostly a solo game. But I wouldn't want to be a game store clerk trying to sell this game... which i guess is not a problem, as it's mostly sold on KS.... alright alright this is fine :3
So there isn't any combat? I'll pass. "By G'Quan I can't remember the last time I was in a fight like that. No moral ambiguity. No hopeless battle against ancient and overwhelming forces. They were the bad guys as you say. We were the good guys. And they made a very satisfying thump when they hit the floor." The wisdom of G'Kar.
Yep, no combat. If that's what you're here for, this game isn't for you
I backed it purely because its a solo game at heart. I have plenty of co op and/or pvp like games already. Plus Orange Nebula has a proven track record of delivering great games, I trust them, hopefully I am not wrong.
Love dice throne but don’t think I need any of the upgrades so will just wait for retail. Please keep the details I like it as I watch your rounds ups more than others now to help avoid getting to hyped
Thanks 🙂
I recommend this book to you: Finite and Infinite Games by James Carse
Love that hoodie!
Thanks :)
Feels like everything they're building on is our curiosity.
Can't find any gameplay videos about the game. Dunno anything about the theme of the world really. Know only tiny bits about how a quest looks like. Don't know anything about how deep the story is or if it's a lighter story and rather a deckbuilder ... and since they say "You are the story" and my character is made up of deckbuilding cards, it may very well be just a light story and more a focus on deckbuilding and using your cards wisely for living long enough and completing quests.
Sadly a pass for me. Too little information. Makes it also a bit suspicous.
I appreciate the approach, but it didn’t work…I think the main problem is you are not explaining this in gaming terms. You are using theme. I’m not sure if that is what the company asked you to do, but it’s very nebulous.
How will the UA-cam video ‘games in under three minutes’ explain this?
Is it a open world game, cube pusher with elements of TCG?
Their past games have been very Euro and ‘cube pushing/resources building’.
We gamers need something we can tether ourselves to help understand.
"How to get as much of the game experience within lifespan of your character" - do you mean to get as mush victory point before you're out of cards in the deck 😄
Yes :)
Think of all your favorite games, and how you can generally describe them in 20 words or less. Just saying.
Also, vindication is a fine game. It’s a cube pushing efficiency puzzle, with all kinds of theme tossed in, theme that vanishes, like a whisper in the wind, after a few minutes of gameplay.
I have a funny feeling this game is heading down the same path.
Sure...but Vindication is one of my favorite games. If you didn't like Vindication, this might be one worth passing on until you can try first.
I’m in. It looks like an excellent game system and I’m anticipating with 5 years or so we’ll have at least 10 realms to explore. Then it’ll be pretty dynamic as an experience.
On the topic of whether the experience will last for 200 hours again, I think that that's applying a lens of something like bloomhaven where you're expected to play it over and over as kind of your only game all the way through and then put it away until a new one comes out. They have clearly said that they expect this game to be one that you play for a while, finish a story arc, play through a realm or two and then put away and return to maybe once you had a bit of space from it or once new content comes out. A big difference between this and loom haven is that if you want more gloomhaven content, you need to wait for Frost Haven which is another x hundred hour experience, whereas their realm boxes appear to be about 20 bucks, so it's much more likely that you could play this for a bit. Put it away and then when a new little expansion pack comes out, pick it up and play it for another 10, 20 30 hours
This isn't actually true! There's a surprising amount of really good fan content you can play, for free, using the base game materials. If all you want is more gloomhaven, there is plenty.
A lot of games like that have a surprising amount of fan content that often rivals the official content. One of the gloomhaven fan campaigns is so good it got its own box release :D
This fuckin' jacket. You should be sitting on a throne or about to go in as QB for the New York Jets.
Lol
I am excited for this game. I am going in for two reasons: Orange Nebula reputation and yours. The fact that you made another video to convey your view of the game is a sign for me that you genuinely are trying to let your viewers know that this game is special and brings a unique experience. I just received my Roll Palyer Adventure with extensions and you mentioning it makes me even more try it and compare it to Spirit fire (adventure and puzzle solving wise) when it comes out. Keep on the great work. Like the robe, looks comfy. Is your basement that cold 😉?
why is your jacket so cool
oh, it's a robe, very cool.
I really like Vindication and did not like Unsettled at all. So kind of like Tom Vassel. I wish there was a playthrough of this game, I wont back without one.
Huh, I'm surprised that this seems to confuse so many people. It basically feels like a 7th continent without the curse. You have the deck that determines how long you last there too, which can be prolonged, the exploration, the not-combat focused challenges (for the most part). This here seems less puzzly and more introspective, with more focus on characters, but otherwise it maps pretty well, I think.
The main issue I see is that they use a lot of unique jargon, which makes it harder to understand. Kinda like Aeon Trespass, which uses a lot of unusual terms (Kratos tables, Mnemoses, etc) and caused a lot more confusion just due by the naming.
I wonder if what people hated in 7th Continent will come across better here for the general audience. Failing "scenarios" is built in, and optimization can easily become grindy. Me, I'm intrigued, but also worried about the "Living game" aspect.
I wouldn't actually compare it to seventh continent in most ways, unless you referring to the general sense of trying to move forward. But past that, I do think it's a good general concept of other innovative game systems that aren't binary, win or lose.
@@BoardGameCo I meant the general, slightly directionless sense it's doing, not that it's an 1:1 clone, yeah! Sorry for not phrasing myself too well.
what the heck are you wearing?
I think it’s interesting that everyone is saying “I have no idea what this game is” while I’m sitting over in my house saying “from what I’ve seen, it seems pretty clear what this game is”
🤷♂️ I mean, I don’t know exact mechanics but I’ve played enough games where I am getting the general idea!
Lol I'm glad you do :)
I own that same cloak!
i believe in oneb. i never have a true solo game, and thia will bw the 1st one.
They need the three minute gamer 😏
This game intrigued me quite a bit. I love storytelling and I love open-world, choose your adventure type experiences (like Sleeping Gods). But I really don't like deck building as a mechanic, so this game will be a pass for me.
OK, so bottom line: You have a life that gets diminished the more you "do things. You can expand your life, but not indefinitely. But are the things you do to extend your life "fun". Is it a fantasy theme? Or is it a weird, "no theme" type of game?
All these abstract and "spin-type" answers are really turning me off on the game.
So far it looks like I will pass. No use sitting at a game for hours on end, in a theme I will not enjoy.
Alex you did a good job trying to explain thia game but theres still allot of vague buzzwords being used a bit too much. The marketing plan for this game where the dev keeps telling us how its an amazing game & we just need to buy it while they show almost nothing on how everything interacts is a hard sell. So far all ive been able to determine is we wont fight in the standard way but will us wisdom as a skill check vs muscles, also theres no hp in the game just an ever ticking clock. They really need to show some gameplay on a semi developed charecter so we can understand how things interact. Spiritfire has become a total skip till a second printing once those who were brave enough to buy it have had time to play & actually review the game.
I think content creators need to be extra careful whenever they talk about this game, seeing as it's very different and difficult to understand, which might lead people to put money into it based on opinions of creators who they value. I'm not saying you're not being careful with it, just that it's something to keep in mind :)
I don't disagree at all.
If ON would just do a simple "first level" playthrough and wake through the mechanics on their KS then that would clear up a lot of the confusion. In their videos they want to use this mystical nebulous language and it doesn't help the players and backers understand what they are talking about. If I as a customer have no idea what you are trying to sell me, then why would I want to give you money?
I like your jacket ^^
Thanks :)
Another masterful discussion! I backed it based on the fact that Orange Nebula has created amazing high quality engaging games and to be honest, I recently bought the Ancient Archive Vindication based on your opinion of it. I hope to buy Unsettled for the same reason.
If Unsettled is ever available. :)