Secrets To Choosing the BEST Rebreather for YOU!
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- Опубліковано 28 чер 2024
- No. I don't know the best rebreather for you, or which rebreather you should buy, so stop asking. What I will do is be your guide and lay out a road map for you to make your own informed decision.
Jill Heinerth's excellent rebreather book: amzn.to/3S4LCrV
Choosing a rebreather (closed circuit rebreather, or CCR) is a big decision. It is a commitment of both lots of time and money. Unfortunately, there is a lot of unqualified information out there. You can waste time in online forums and shouting matches where the person who has only ever dived one rebreather thinks their's is the best rebreather and everyone else is wrong.
Products used to make this video:
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Tec Clark
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Gareth Lock's Essentials of Human Factors in Diving Course:
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Every diver should read THIS book!
Under Pressure: Human Factors In Diving Book:
www.thehumandiver.com/a/35548...
I am not going to tell you which rebreather you should by, but I have laid out a step-by-step method for choosing the best rebreather for you.
Thanks as always for watching!
D.S.D.O
James
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How To Choose A Rebreather - Спорт
I got into ccr a decade ago with a classic inspo. Not knowing however that they'd become a paperweight when ap stopped making the computer parts for that beast. The cost of the upgrade was more than what I paid for it, so I didn't lose out too much when I sold it for parts a few years ago. Managed to get to normoxic on the full inspo vision and back pedalled the training into the classic as you could then.
However I do now prefer the simplicity of open circuit and am back enjoying blowing bubbles again. The rebreather having been replaced by something equally deadly - a litre bike....
Great video, couldn't of came at a better time. So far I've dived the SF2 and JJ, really enjoyed trying the units out and looking forward to more in the near future.
I officially start my rebreather journey next month. But everything you said here checks out for sure. For me I love side mount diving, so I knew for me I needed to find a unit that would let me dive the way I enjoy diving already. It was absolutely a matter of finding the right unit for me followed by finding the right instructor for that rebreather.
Even if I wanted to try a Divesoft Liberty I’d likely be waiting months if not a year or more just to schedule something. There are only about 11 instructors qualified to teach for that model in the US. It’s one I’m interested in trying, but I’ve already been researching the market for about 2 years, so I might just end up buying a Meg even if it turns out that may be the second or third best rebreather for me. A well built and designed sidemount rebreather is very appealing to me, but finding one that isn’t plagued by the quality control issues that is associated with the Cult of KISS can be painstaking hard to come by as I watch life pass me by searching for the #1 best rebreather right for me.
I’m one of the eleven! Let me know next time you’re in Florida and we can set up a try-dive!
Great video James. Thanks for the book recommendation.
I agree with all the points that James makes. One important aspect I will add is what unit the people I dive with and around me use, this makes a reliable and easy source to solve problems and get advice from.
Agreed, it is always helpful to have a good core group to get information from.
Every word you said is true James. 30-50 hrs are a minimum to get familiar with your machine, this is my experience after 200+ hours on the CCR. Once you own the CCR, don‘t rush and take your time until you make the next level training. It makes the things much more easier.
Very objective and absolutely true! Super nice video
Great video! Thanks
James, I fully agree with the course of action you describe.
I have so far tried 5 CCRs: 2 Inspiration variants, a rEvo, a Triton and my own home-made oxygen mCCR. I am certified on rEvo and Triton.
My favorites have been and still are: My home brew for easy diving in warm waters in the EAN80 MOD range and rEvo for anything beyond that. But that's just my personal preference.
Note that there's not just CCRs, but also SCRs. And within those categories there are multiple sub-categories to choose from.
Jill's book is indeed a good starter.
Also, if you're not perfectly buoyant on OC, you might want to wait with CC until you are. GUE Fundamentals set me right in that regard and others, even with my previous 25 years of OC experience.
When choosing an instructor for your first rebreather course, try to choose the best and most experienced you can find. Rebreather diving is complex and carries with it many more things that can go wrong than open circuit. But also many more ways to mitigate failures. I went with an instructor trainer and was not disappointed in the least!
Don't underestimate the value of a quality CCR User course. It's laying the groundwork to keep you alive on a type of diving that is not meant for the casual and care-free diver.
Enjoy getting to know your unit and learning buoyancy skills, situational awareness and task loading on a whole new level. 🙂
Awesome video! That's how we all should roll for whatever you are trying to accomplish in life discernment, persistence, constancy, and a little faith doesn't hurt anyone. 😎
This video is incredibly accurate. I only wish that i had seen it sooner.
My suggestion is to start on a second hand unit. Only after actually diving a CCR for the 30-50h it takes to get comfortable. You will learn what matters for you in a CCR. Better even get an old Dolphin, make it MCCR, then eCCR, then go to an expensive unit if you are still hooked. (That was my route close to 20years ago, the heavily modified Dolphin did a lot of good dives and taught me all the basics, mechanics, electronics, physics and everything else)
I want more videos about CCR! Especially about the Liberty because it's the one I plan to buy 😁
One piece of feedback that I took into account was the brands that those around me of the people I dive with regularly. All my dive buddies dive KISS, the local shop teaches and services KISS. It was not my deciding factor but to know there is a lot of experince and parts in my area helped me lean that way. I have not bought yet but that is the way I am leaning.
Love my Liberty! But I would say it takes 50h to crack the key on rebreather diving moving over from OC. Great video by the way
Thanks for this. I’ve been thinking about getting into CCR for cave eventually. Jill writes awesome books.
CCR has its current popularity due in large part to the cave diving community.
Honestly the biggest problem is that you have to probably spend at least six months out of the caves. And when you get back into it you almost have to start from zero doing easy intro level dives before working yourself up to longer more complex dives. After spending years working up to the level of long complex dives working my way back up from zero is daunting.
But OTOH we are spoiled for choice for instructors. If it is a remotely popular units in the states there is probably a local instructor.
@@Teampegleg It’s not just the caves, reef dives and deep dives too.
@@Chogogo717 I would imagine that for me a CCR transition would probably involve spending a couple of months where I can get a bunch of OW dives in. I've heard 25-50 hours before you are ready for CCR tech diving.
And then probably three to six months to work your way back to your previous level.
It seems like with anyting more than Rescue cert or maybee a DM course unless you live in a high Density SCUBA area like Florida you have to spend a lot of time and money over and above the cost of training to travel to get these certs from specialty instructors with Specialty Dive Shops.
I totally agree on his statement that 'you are going to suck'
I did a practice hypercapnic bailout last night, and as I was coming to the surface, I thought to myself 'geez: this is so easy, OC diving is so easy'
I learned another behavior while descending in yesterday's dive, which is dive 13. I am getting used to it more and understanding it better and better.
It is funny that he is going on and on about how he is talking about a particular rebreather he says is best for him, but his videos are showing another eCCR.
I agree with everything you said, except i must tell you the JJCCR is the best unit :)
😂😂
i would say kiss spirit lte is the best
@@davidb5195 Yes!! Its amazing!
I ended up going for the triton ccr after diving a few
Similar to CubanazoJB, although in every other big decision I avoid following the crowd, for me the fact that with one exception all the CCR divers in my club, and most of the CCR divers I meet on dive boats were on the same unit meant I would have needed a killer reason to choose something else. Those divers are an excellent source of advice and guidance, as well as spares and tools :-) And in an emergency there are people who might loan me a head for a trip.
Exactly.. I dive the KISS Sidewinder, my instructor could’ve teach/certified on 5 or 6 different rebreathers.. but imagine we went to dive trip in Cozumel earlier this summer, 15 CCR we all were KISS rebreather, including the creator of the Sidewinder..
@@CubanazoJB I'm in the UK, and for me it was the AP Inspiration, but the same principle, lots of support around me.
When you discuss the budget for purchasing a rebreather, another important aspect that is often overlooked is the annual upkeep and maintenance of the unit. Sensors need to be replaced and that can be upwards of $400, or more, annually...not including a service at the manufacturer if required...
The first time he said Jills name i heard "your highness" and then read her name on the cover and thought nothing of it. For me she is a part of the diving royalty. Realized I misheard him the second time he said her name. 😂
Two perfect sayings: Embrace the Suck! and...It's a lot of work! images from our Mod1 class....😞10 months and 80 hours after that there have been some improvements 🙂
I was just contemplating which ones to buy
One of the other big decisions is manual, or electronic CCR.
And thanks James, I did not know Jill had a CCR book. Just ordered it from your link. 🙂
And if you can't decide between manual or electronic CCR, you can take best of both worlds and choose hybrid CCR like rEvo.
I really hope this doesn't come off sounding like a troll or a know-it-all:
The mCCR is actually mechanical, not manual. A lot more of it is "manual", but a mechanical CCR's manual nature is NOT the same as going manual in an electronic CCR. Running an eCCR manually is complex and takes a LOT effort. It is far more difficult than a mechanical CCR.
The primary difference is that the mechanical CCR has a tiny little orifice that slowly and constantly trickles in the oxygen. You can get them "tuned", or adjusted, to match your oxygen metabolic rate. If it's close to the rate that you metabolize O2, it's automatic and you really don't have to manually add in oxygen (assuming the dive profile isn't super crazy). This trickle/bleeder valve is the mechanical part versus the eCCR having a small electric valve that the computer periodically opens to maintain the PO2 settings you want.
Like I said, I hope this doesn't come across as troll-ish (it's really not), but some people just don't know this about mechanical CCRs and they think of when they had to learn the difficult manual process of their eCCR during their training. It's not the same. The mechanical one is slightly more "manual", but it's not like a car with automatic transmission vs manual transmission - that's just too different of a comparison. If you're familiar with transmissions, it's more like an automatic transmission from 20-30-50 years ago vs an automatic transmission from the last few years. The more modern style is pretty nice, but oh boy, maintaining that thing costs a pretty penny compared to what people could do in their own garage at home for far less money. It all depends on what your needs/wants are and how much money you have. Or just stay OC and come up every 45 minutes for a break and save a LOT more money.
@mgelax SMH.... Yep... Mechanical. Don't post comments when having breakfast with coworkers after working a 12 hour night shift.
And your description of a mCCR was stated very well. Thank you for the neutral, well thought out, response.
@@sammoyers905 No worries!
@@mgelax In fact rEvo has the CMF (constant mass flow) orifice as well, so you can run it manually no problem.
I have a couple friends that just got their CCR cert. My question are safety. The fatalities I've heard about in the few years have all been on CCRs. I for one will stick with open circuit and all the restrictions that go with it. Thoughts?
Divesoft aren't 'one man in a garage' - so why not talk us thorough which manufacturers are...? 'Dive and test an RB yourself' - sure thing but you need to go further and understand the CE testing of the scrubber, WOB etc. (just one example)... diving it isn't enough. The right unit for me isn't generally available - the BioMarine MK15.5...FINALLY: You may think its time to try a rebreather as a logical extension to OC diving but my advice would be to base it on a pressing need that only an RB can address (e.g. >depth
Wow❤👌🏻
This video was so interesting even though I am nowhere near ready for CCR diving. Out of interest in your opinion how much experience would you suggest having before going down the CCR route?
I would say that if you know CCR is your ultimate goal, just go there regardless of how much OC experience you have.
You'll probably want to have your trim and buoyancy perfected with at least one stage tank and be certified for full nitrox, perhaps even light trimix before you start on your rebreather journey. That will give you the theoretical and practical background that will help you not to be overburdoned during the CCR user course and get the most out of it regarding CCR in general and your unit in particular. Don't waste the CCR course on stuff you have to learn anyway.
Remember: When you have to bail out from CCR to OC, you have to know what your doing on OC. Anything you do on CCR ist just on top of that.
Both replies before me we pretty good. Honestly, I would start with personal budget - time and money. If you don't have the money or the time to keep up with the skills, wait until you do. Don't rush and be unable to dive due to all the operating expenses.
But when to do it? Well, most people don't think of it, but there actually is a way to do CCR/SCR that doesn't involve decompression diving. You don't have to jump into really deep dives or dives that go 3.5 hours. You can stay shallow and stay within no deco limits. For some people, this is a really good way to get started and learn. Doing a CCR try dive could also be really informative.
Skills requirements - I guess this depends on your instructor. If your buoyancy and trim isn't really precise, then a CCR might be difficult for you, but work with your instructor to see if you can do some really good buoyancy and trim practice courses leading up to the CCR training. Maybe you won't pass the CCR class the first time due to these issues. You will still get a lot better. Then get some more open circuit dives in with good practice and do the CCR class again a few weeks later. Too many of us think failing a class is a bad thing. It's probably NOT fun, but a high quality instructor is going to give you precise feedback and recommendations on HOW to resolve those issues. Then when you go back soon after you can do well on the class! Failing can often give us a good path and understanding on what is wrong. It's a core tenet of engineering - learn while you're testing out the ideas and let failures guide your understanding before it's time to make the final product.
You can do all of this as an open circuit diver that's still learning a lot. Just be prepared for a really intense phase of learning. You don't have to wait until 5000 dives or some other arbitrary measure. An instructor won't just let you go out on your own if you really aren't ready. Think of this as part of the learning process and not as personal failure.
Thoughts on purchasing those second hand rebreathers?
Buy what the people you are diving with use and get something you can get spares for easily. No point buying something if nobody else is diving it and the only available parts are on the other side of the world.
I drive Japanese and Korean, guess I know what is in store for meeeee
The most important secret to know about rebreathers, very few talks about it. But it's f....g important. It's how many people use rebreathers and how many people dies using it. The ratio is so bad it' frightening and it's a f....g shame this ratio is hidden to thrusting customers!
Yeah maybe… as someone who has studied human behavior for a leaving I can tell you the CCR are not for everyone. This units today’s day are very reliable hence you could argue its the kind of dive and places divers adventure with them that push current technology to the edge… but if you could read the forensic report of large part of those deaths (as I have) you will be in shock that over 97% are user error or outright carelessness (overconfidence), probably one of the reason the industry doesn’t talk about it too much; no one would like to be talking about a fellow diver who died because an “stupidity” but in the inner circle people knows the real reason in almost all cases are not equivalent related.
If you go back through all of the history of CCR diving, this is true. But this is true, in a weird way, about childhood obesity. One of my kids always weighs in under 10th percentile for weight (sometimes she is less than 5th percentile). Well, yeah, if you use modern data and all the childhood obesity, that's definitely true that she is "underweight". But if you go back to the 1970s and compare her weight to other children in that time period, she is between the 25th and 50th percentile. See, when the model changes, old data can be irrelevant. Maybe it is irrelevant, maybe it isn't. For CCRs, the data from the 1990s and early 2000s (and before) really doesn't matter anymore. The same is true for cave diving. Since all those cave diving accidents in the 70s and 80s, more quality instruction and information is available. Advanced cave divers from that time started publishing their recommendations. Places with cave diving stopped allowing just anyone to go diving in there. Essentially, adding more controls and better instruction dramatically reduced the rate of deaths. The same is true for CCR diving. The opposite is true for childhood obesity. We know more about nutrition now, but we dramatically changed the western diet too much in the late 80s and 90s leading to the current situation. The problems with that are varied, but one big part is the ratios of the macronutrients, the frequency of eating fast food, and the ever-increasing sedentary lifestyle.
It's almost always user error, negligence etc, very rarely the equipment and even then, properly trained, current and on the ball the risk is managed very well. Not anywhere near the same element of risk as single tank dive to 60+m with maybe a 7L of deco nitrox strapped to you which I'm sure you will bailout to at depth when your single tank blows an o ring or in any other emergency.
@@CubanazoJB you are wright, it's most of the time user error or lack of maintenance, prep of the gear. The price for this is your life! i can't count how many little to stupid errors i mad during my diver's carrer, it only taught me valuable lessons. Anyone who want to use rebreathers should perfectly be aware that there is no valuable lessons to learn when you make mistake with rebreathers. Unfortunately this doesn't fit into a good marketing plan so the info is not well shared
@@mgelax I agree, the situation today is different today. The gear is better, the software( this is another pb) are probably better too. But the base is so bad! in the DAN 2013 accident report i remember reading 1 death/500 dives ( not sure of the exact number but it is of this order). I wouldn't play a 1/500 Russian Roulette. Too high ratio for me
What about kiss rebreathers ?
First time that I listen to a post from james, that theaches me totally nothing. I listened to a dozen of this channel podcasts, and all of them taught me a new thing. Made me think. Made me a better diver. But this one? Sends me to read a book? I mean, 11 minutes just to say: go read a book and have someone to teach you??
James come on !
You said you had 12 ccrs over the years? Tell us about them. Gives EXAMPLES of the differences between them. You said you can only teach back mount divesoft liberty. Ok: What is the difference between backmount and sidemount in regard to the mechanical point of view. After all, It's the same manufacturer and same philosophy of work.
Teach us.
Give us examples so we can understand
What is the difference between liberty back mount and say....hollis or jj or whatever you did use.
Tell us what YOU liked about the divsoft?
Teach us something. So we can get out with something out of this video.
Or we could pay him and take a course. At a certain point he can’t tell you everything.😊
@calebmcelhaney2292 thus far he has. And I can assure you that just by watching James's content, I HAVE become a better diver. Just imagine where i can be, if I come to learn from him tec dive......
Buy a JJ.
Wow, James ,Korean shit box’s took a beat today, huh? Lol.😂