Shabbat shalom to all brethren. let us always remember to keep 119 ministries in our prayers that the wisdom and protection of God may always be upon them.
To my knowledge there is no such model in existence in denominational Christian churchianity, the reason I don’t participate in any of them. I did spend years searching for a church that taught truth, and although all teach some, all also teach doctrines of men. Home Torah study and sabbath fellowship groups (found through 119Ministries fellowship finder) are the closest I have experienced to the biblical model. Thank you for this teaching and for providing a means for seekers of true biblical fellowship to connect with others. When you walk the narrow way, it is sometimes lonely and a challenge to locate others on the same path. That broad road is packed, heavily trafficked and always beckoning you to join it.
Shabbat Shalom from Australia 🇦🇺 Thankyou and may the most high Elohim YHWH continue to bless you & your ministry through our Messiah YESHUA 🤗 ❤️ 🙏 🍷 🍞 🎶
There are difficulties that arise due to translation. Then there is the understanding of the translators. There are metaphors, idioms, analogies, and allegories. By the time it gets to us it is difficult to understand. We tend to let the Church interpret and teach us their understanding rather than study it ourselves. So as the early Church relied on the elders the western church relies on the pastors. As they like to point out "there is a way that seemeth right unto a man but the end thereof are the ways of death". This to me would also apply to denominations. The way around this for me is when there is a controversy I am as a lawyer seeking for the truth. I question both sides and look at the evidence they provide. Then endeavour to discerne the truth.
I've been in a baptist church that has elders leadership.. nobody knew who to talk to in order to get a response in different issues, for me it was a headless model where the deacons actually decided what to do. Deacons at the same time were sought as technicians, contractor workers.. it was a disaster. No thank you.. I dropped that church, well they asked me to leave when I refused to swallow their calvinist teachings. That was my last negative experience with church
Every group of people must have a director of some sort. Otherwise, it will merely exist as chaos. "Cat herder" is an appropriate title for such a person. Get everyone in the same place at the same time, and have some sort of organized study schedule aka curriculum. 119 got this right. The "offices" are character traits, not positions in a hierarchical structure.
Some church congregations are so small that there literally isn't enough people willing to fill the roles of deacons and bishops. My grandparents attend a tiny Assemblies of God-affiliated church with a total of 20 members. No one has stepped up to be a deacon nor a bishop. (There is one lady who acts as an accountant, but she only manages the church's funds; she doesn't do any teaching or counseling or advising.) The pastor who leads the church isn't trying to lord over his flock. He's just doing the best with what he has. Until the other men in the church step up to do their duty, the church has no choice but to have an "unbiblical" ecclesiastical model.
I like that. Thank you for teaching me this but, I’m confused on Ephesians 4:11 when it mentions Pastors and Teachers. Did they Translate the Greek word for pastors wrongly?
Good teaching however, the elders' only authority is the Word of God, not their own. We don't "obey" the elders. The word in Hebrews 13 is "peitho" and it means "trust or have confidence in;" it does not mean "obey." The word for "obey" is "hypakouo.". We obey the Word of God and a true elder or group of elders would never claim authority. Making decisions about organizational issues has nothing at all to do with sin, so it's not a matter of obeying their decisions. It is a matter of participating or not with their decisions. All teaching, encouraging, correcting and rebuking is done by the Word of God saying so, not the group of elders. They must be able to only present that Word of God as the truth and standard. If they cannot teach this, they are not qualified since they "must be able to teach."
”If then all the assembly comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are unlearned or unbelievers, shall they not say that you are mad? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an unlearned one comes in, he is reproved by all, he is discerned by all. And so the secrets of his heart are revealed. And so, falling down on his face, he shall worship Elohim, declaring that Elohim is truly among you. What then is it, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all be done for upbuilding. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. And if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and let him speak to himself and to Elohim. And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern. And if there should be a revelation to another who sits by, let the first be silent. For you are all able to prophesy one by one, so that all learn and all be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For Elohim is not Elohim of disorder but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the set-apart ones. Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but let them subject themselves, as the Torah also says. And if they wish to learn whatever, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in an assembly. Or did the word of Elohim go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge what I write to you, that they are a command of the Master. And if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. So, then, brothers, earnestly seek to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. Let all be done decently and in order.“ Qorintiyim Aleph (1 Corinthians) 14:23-40
Shalom @candicestiebens347, There was some strong, valid criticism against what we presented in regard to the origin or meaning of who the Nicolaitans were. Rather than perpetuate what may be false information, we removed it from our video entirely. We hope this clarifies this for you. Blessings to you and yours...
”Then there came a man named Ya’ir who was president of the synagogue. Falling at Yeshua’s feet, he pleaded with him to come to his house; for he had an only daughter, about twelve years old; and she was dying. As he went, with the crowds on every side virtually choking him, a woman who had had a hemorrhage for twelve years, and could not be healed by anyone, came up behind him and touched the tzitzit on his robe; instantly her hemorrhaging stopped. Yeshua asked, “Who touched me?” When they all denied doing it, Kefa said, “Rabbi! The crowds are hemming you in and jostling you!” But Yeshua said, “Someone did touch me, because I felt power go out of me.” Seeing she could not escape notice, the woman, quaking with fear, threw herself down before him and confessed in front of everyone why she had touched him and how she had been instantly healed. He said to her, “My daughter, your trust has saved you; go in peace.” While Yeshua was still speaking, a man came from the synagogue president’s house. “Your daughter has died,” he said. “Don’t bother the rabbi any more.” But on hearing this, Yeshua answered him, “Don’t be afraid! Just go on trusting, and she will be made well.”“ Luke (Luk) 8:41-50
I only have one question, and I ask it in sincerity and love... What about the kohen ha'gadol (high priest)? I understand that Yahusha ha'Mashiach is our High Priest, now, but back in the day wasn't the high priest basically like a "head pastor" position?
The problem is ost if you confuse sola scriptura with mono scriptura. The Didache explains clearly that after the Jewish clergy rankings the Early Nazarene Jews or Christians ranked their clergy as 1. Apostles 2. Prophets a. Evangelist b. Pastor 3. Rabbis c. Disciples 4. Presbyters 5. Deacons 6. Readers This is the reason why your models of Church government are problematic. You disregard Episcopacy which is Rule of Apostles as unbiblical when the Bible is well-explained by several other contemporary Christian literature and of course TRADITION
If Yeshua is supposed to be the leader in charge of the church, how do you expect this character who lives in some other realm, that cannot the demonstrably and coherently communicate with humanity, We someone who can actually take marching orders from? It makes sense why humans I’ve been filling the void of gods since the dawn of irrationality.
Just wondering exactly what is the biblical place for single woman's place that does not have a husband - or widow whose husband has died. Is it then The Father, Christ, and them? I know Paul said if one does not marry, they can focus more on the LORD, and not on a husband or worldly things. So does that mean a woman can stand alone before the Lord, serving Him without the "head" of a man? How does that all work for her? Do you have a video on our role?
That's an interesting question. I think it isn't saying that a woman needs a man as her head, but that, if she is married, her husband was her head. Also, in the culture back then, if she was a widow, her son would fill the role, or brother, father, etc. I don't think any of this means a single woman needs to find someone as her "head", other than Christ Himself, especially since most of us who follow what the Bible says will pretty much be alone, other than having our congregation to fellowship with. Just my thoughts.
I love 119 but I don’t understand why they continue to use that false image of Yeshua in their teachings. There is no known description of him in scripture or for 100s of years after his life. For all we know, that could be a picture of Lucifer and folks have it plastered everywhere as our Messiah. Food for thought.
"Pastor" is not a position of Authority. It's listed as a spiritual gift in Eph.4:11. Seeing that spiritual gifts are gender neutral means that a woman can be a "pastor". Afterall, who better to council a woman over women's issues than another woman!?! However, Scripture is clear that the role of an Elder (which is a postion of authority) is reserved for qualified men. But women (and men) can be deacons. However, this is not a position of authority even though the moral qualifications are almost identical to that of an Elder.
The “head” of a church likely developed from the one elder that was tasked with managing communications to other churches. Btw, how many elders should a church have? How many deacons?
What about Ephesians 4:11? It gives a hierarchy and mentions the word Pastor with the Greek (poimen) definition meaning a leader or director of the assembly. I disagree that there isn't one person who leads (under Yahshua). I mean the pattern is found even in general society - one chef in a kitchen, one captain of a boat, one CEO of a company etc .etc...people naturally look to one person to be the ultimate leader who makes the final decision like James did in Acts 15 - he said "it is MY decision..." Maybe in a perfect world it would work to have only elders etc ..but in the assembly today with all it's division - nope! Not until HE returns....
Yeshua is the chef in the kitchen, the captain on the boat, the ceo if the business. That is the point of the video. We are his cooks, his deckhands, his employees. Biblically speaking his servants. He is our master, king. Mighty authority. Besides all that you have listed are ways men organize themselves Another point in the teaching.
I have appreciated many of the teachings by 119 ministries, however this one misses the mark. I agree that there should be polarity of leadership in each congregation. There is a lot of unhealthy authority in the church, because it lacks biblical model of accountability. However this teaching goes too far and seriously lacks a holistic biblical look at the role/s of leadership and therefore “pastor” in the body of Christ and how they operate alongside each other. Go study Titus and Timothy (and there are many others examples ) to see that there is much more to the leadership structures God puts in place. Then from the Old Testament to only use Moses, Miriam and Aaron from the entire OT is very isolated. In this video the term authority is used very ambiguously. Now i’m not sure if you are speaking to a specific audience, but most Christians understand the submission to (biblical) leadership vs the authority of Christ over His church. Unless you are speaking to sects that is. Otherwise it is not coherent making such a big jump in comparison. If 119 ministry wants to set an example of what biblical teaching is, well this isn’t it. As a ministry you should reconsider this eisegetical teaching. Unfortunately this video leads to more harm than help. Test everything.
Church board appoints pastor, who is responsible for everything that in the bible different people are responsible for (Ephesians 4:11). Board of directors appoints CEO. So, we're dealing with a corporation here. All they are saying basically is return to the biblical model or else continue to follow church tradition. So, I wouldn't say it is out of place.
@advex4428 it's a church not a corporation. Pastor just leads the flock in spiritual matters, the whole body has the final authority. Yes, he is out of place.
The board rules the people, no the pastor rules the people.. Rev 2:15 So likewise you also have those who hold fast to the teaching of the Nicolaitans. Rev 2:16 Therefore repent! But if you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war with them with the sword from my mouth.
Shabbat shalom to all brethren. let us always remember to keep 119 ministries in our prayers that the wisdom and protection of God may always be upon them.
This was really needed in mine and my wife's life right now with what we are going through. Thank you for this blessing!
To my knowledge there is no such model in existence in denominational Christian churchianity, the reason I don’t participate in any of them. I did spend years searching for a church that taught truth, and although all teach some, all also teach doctrines of men. Home Torah study and sabbath fellowship groups (found through 119Ministries fellowship finder) are the closest I have experienced to the biblical model. Thank you for this teaching and for providing a means for seekers of true biblical fellowship to connect with others. When you walk the narrow way, it is sometimes lonely and a challenge to locate others on the same path. That broad road is packed, heavily trafficked and always beckoning you to join it.
Shabbat Shalom from Oklahoma, i’m in 100% agree with you on those facts. Keep pushing forward 🙏
Amen
I did the same as you,searching for Biblical truth,found teachings of man dominated,so now i refrain from going to any church,
@@SeekTruthOut Shabbat shalom! Have a most blessed day. Shabbat is the most beautiful gift of our Father, next to Yeshua.
@@AnneTaylor-kk8ze Shabbat shalom, Anne. Have a wonderful, restful and Ruach filled day in Yeshua’s name.
It's good to see Jon again. Thank you for this teaching.
Agree in everything. Shabbst shalom from Ecuador.
Shabbat Shalom to all!
Shabbat Shalom, Susan!
Shabbat Shalom from Australia 🇦🇺 Thankyou and may the most high Elohim YHWH continue to bless you & your ministry through our Messiah YESHUA 🤗 ❤️ 🙏 🍷 🍞 🎶
Shabbat Shalom everyone!
Shabbat Shalom
This was a really excellent teaching. Thanks 119.
There are difficulties that arise due to translation. Then there is the understanding of the translators. There are metaphors, idioms, analogies, and allegories. By the time it gets to us it is difficult to understand. We tend to let the Church interpret and teach us their understanding rather than study it ourselves. So as the early Church relied on the elders the western church relies on the pastors. As they like to point out "there is a way that seemeth right unto a man but the end thereof are the ways of death". This to me would also apply to denominations. The way around this for me is when there is a controversy I am as a lawyer seeking for the truth. I question both sides and look at the evidence they provide. Then endeavour to discerne the truth.
I've been in a baptist church that has elders leadership.. nobody knew who to talk to in order to get a response in different issues, for me it was a headless model where the deacons actually decided what to do. Deacons at the same time were sought as technicians, contractor workers.. it was a disaster. No thank you.. I dropped that church, well they asked me to leave when I refused to swallow their calvinist teachings. That was my last negative experience with church
thanks, much to learn.
I thought this guy quit. Great to see him back
He’s one of the guys that started this ministry no?
”“And a man from every tribe should be with you, each one the head of his father’s house.“
Bemiḏbar (Numbers) 1:4
Every group of people must have a director of some sort. Otherwise, it will merely exist as chaos. "Cat herder" is an appropriate title for such a person. Get everyone in the same place at the same time, and have some sort of organized study schedule aka curriculum. 119 got this right. The "offices" are character traits, not positions in a hierarchical structure.
Yes When I visit a church, I feel like the pastor rules over the people. , when they have pastor dedication day it's like they worship the pastor
Believe it or not once at my old church they put a crown and a robe on the pastor. 😮
Some church congregations are so small that there literally isn't enough people willing to fill the roles of deacons and bishops. My grandparents attend a tiny Assemblies of God-affiliated church with a total of 20 members. No one has stepped up to be a deacon nor a bishop. (There is one lady who acts as an accountant, but she only manages the church's funds; she doesn't do any teaching or counseling or advising.) The pastor who leads the church isn't trying to lord over his flock. He's just doing the best with what he has. Until the other men in the church step up to do their duty, the church has no choice but to have an "unbiblical" ecclesiastical model.
I like that. Thank you for teaching me this but, I’m confused on Ephesians 4:11 when it mentions Pastors and Teachers. Did they Translate the Greek word for pastors wrongly?
Pastor then meant overseeing the sheep, protecting and so on not the same today,mostly preachers, name should be evangelicalist instead.
Good teaching however, the elders' only authority is the Word of God, not their own. We don't "obey" the elders. The word in Hebrews 13 is "peitho" and it means "trust or have confidence in;" it does not mean "obey." The word for "obey" is "hypakouo.". We obey the Word of God and a true elder or group of elders would never claim authority. Making decisions about organizational issues has nothing at all to do with sin, so it's not a matter of obeying their decisions. It is a matter of participating or not with their decisions. All teaching, encouraging, correcting and rebuking is done by the Word of God saying so, not the group of elders. They must be able to only present that Word of God as the truth and standard. If they cannot teach this, they are not qualified since they "must be able to teach."
”If then all the assembly comes together in one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those who are unlearned or unbelievers, shall they not say that you are mad? But if all prophesy, and an unbeliever or an unlearned one comes in, he is reproved by all, he is discerned by all. And so the secrets of his heart are revealed. And so, falling down on his face, he shall worship Elohim, declaring that Elohim is truly among you. What then is it, brothers? Whenever you come together, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all be done for upbuilding. If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret. And if there is no interpreter, let him be silent in an assembly, and let him speak to himself and to Elohim. And let two or three prophets speak, and let the others discern. And if there should be a revelation to another who sits by, let the first be silent. For you are all able to prophesy one by one, so that all learn and all be encouraged. And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets. For Elohim is not Elohim of disorder but of peace, as in all the assemblies of the set-apart ones. Let your women be silent in the assemblies, for they are not allowed to speak, but let them subject themselves, as the Torah also says. And if they wish to learn whatever, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is improper for women to speak in an assembly. Or did the word of Elohim go out from you? Or did it reach only to you? If anyone thinks himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge what I write to you, that they are a command of the Master. And if anyone is ignorant, let him be ignorant. So, then, brothers, earnestly seek to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. Let all be done decently and in order.“
Qorintiyim Aleph (1 Corinthians) 14:23-40
Hey @119minstires why did you take nicolaitans part out from your old teaching?
Shalom @candicestiebens347,
There was some strong, valid criticism against what we presented in regard to the origin or meaning of who the Nicolaitans were. Rather than perpetuate what may be false information, we removed it from our video entirely.
We hope this clarifies this for you.
Blessings to you and yours...
Interestingly by only question is why then does Yah refer to an angel and not elders when talking to the seven churches in the book of Revelation.
”Then there came a man named Ya’ir who was president of the synagogue. Falling at Yeshua’s feet, he pleaded with him to come to his house; for he had an only daughter, about twelve years old; and she was dying. As he went, with the crowds on every side virtually choking him, a woman who had had a hemorrhage for twelve years, and could not be healed by anyone, came up behind him and touched the tzitzit on his robe; instantly her hemorrhaging stopped. Yeshua asked, “Who touched me?” When they all denied doing it, Kefa said, “Rabbi! The crowds are hemming you in and jostling you!” But Yeshua said, “Someone did touch me, because I felt power go out of me.” Seeing she could not escape notice, the woman, quaking with fear, threw herself down before him and confessed in front of everyone why she had touched him and how she had been instantly healed. He said to her, “My daughter, your trust has saved you; go in peace.” While Yeshua was still speaking, a man came from the synagogue president’s house. “Your daughter has died,” he said. “Don’t bother the rabbi any more.” But on hearing this, Yeshua answered him, “Don’t be afraid! Just go on trusting, and she will be made well.”“
Luke (Luk) 8:41-50
I only have one question, and I ask it in sincerity and love...
What about the kohen ha'gadol (high priest)? I understand that Yahusha ha'Mashiach is our High Priest, now, but back in the day wasn't the high priest basically like a "head pastor" position?
The problem is ost if you confuse sola scriptura with mono scriptura.
The Didache explains clearly that after the Jewish clergy rankings the Early Nazarene Jews or Christians ranked their clergy as
1. Apostles
2. Prophets
a. Evangelist
b. Pastor
3. Rabbis
c. Disciples
4. Presbyters
5. Deacons
6. Readers
This is the reason why your models of Church government are problematic.
You disregard Episcopacy which is Rule of Apostles as unbiblical when the Bible is well-explained by several other contemporary Christian literature and of course TRADITION
If Yeshua is supposed to be the leader in charge of the church, how do you expect this character who lives in some other realm, that cannot the demonstrably and coherently communicate with humanity, We someone who can actually take marching orders from? It makes sense why humans I’ve been filling the void of gods since the dawn of irrationality.
1 Peter 3:6.....1 Corinthians 11:5..
And vs 13 is not asking if it's in lawful for her to pray cover..that already determine....Romans 13:8
Just wondering exactly what is the biblical place for single woman's place that does not have a husband - or widow whose husband has died. Is it then The Father, Christ, and them? I know Paul said if one does not marry, they can focus more on the LORD, and not on a husband or worldly things. So does that mean a woman can stand alone before the Lord, serving Him without the "head" of a man? How does that all work for her? Do you have a video on our role?
That's an interesting question.
I think it isn't saying that a woman needs a man as her head, but that, if she is married, her husband was her head. Also, in the culture back then, if she was a widow, her son would fill the role, or brother, father, etc.
I don't think any of this means a single woman needs to find someone as her "head", other than Christ Himself, especially since most of us who follow what the Bible says will pretty much be alone, other than having our congregation to fellowship with.
Just my thoughts.
I love 119 but I don’t understand why they continue to use that false image of Yeshua in their teachings. There is no known description of him in scripture or for 100s of years after his life. For all we know, that could be a picture of Lucifer and folks have it plastered everywhere as our Messiah. Food for thought.
See the Shroud of Turin for what Yeshua really looked like!
"Pastor" is not a position of Authority. It's listed as a spiritual gift in Eph.4:11. Seeing that spiritual gifts are gender neutral means that a woman can be a "pastor". Afterall, who better to council a woman over women's issues than another woman!?! However, Scripture is clear that the role of an Elder (which is a postion of authority) is reserved for qualified men. But women (and men) can be deacons. However, this is not a position of authority even though the moral qualifications are almost identical to that of an Elder.
The “head” of a church likely developed from the one elder that was tasked with managing communications to other churches.
Btw, how many elders should a church have? How many deacons?
What about Ephesians 4:11? It gives a hierarchy and mentions the word Pastor with the Greek (poimen) definition meaning a leader or director of the assembly. I disagree that there isn't one person who leads (under Yahshua). I mean the pattern is found even in general society - one chef in a kitchen, one captain of a boat, one CEO of a company etc .etc...people naturally look to one person to be the ultimate leader who makes the final decision like James did in Acts 15 - he said "it is MY decision..." Maybe in a perfect world it would work to have only elders etc ..but in the assembly today with all it's division - nope! Not until HE returns....
The context of ephesians 4 is about the functions present in the body of Yeshua and NOT hierarchy.
He addressed Acts 15 in the video 🤔
Yeshua is the chef in the kitchen, the captain on the boat, the ceo if the business. That is the point of the video. We are his cooks, his deckhands, his employees. Biblically speaking his servants. He is our master, king. Mighty authority.
Besides all that you have listed are ways men organize themselves
Another point in the teaching.
I have appreciated many of the teachings by 119 ministries, however this one misses the mark.
I agree that there should be polarity of leadership in each congregation. There is a lot of unhealthy authority in the church, because it lacks biblical model of accountability.
However this teaching goes too far and seriously lacks a holistic biblical look at the role/s of leadership and therefore “pastor” in the body of Christ and how they operate alongside each other.
Go study Titus and Timothy (and there are many others examples ) to see that there is much more to the leadership structures God puts in place.
Then from the Old Testament to only use Moses, Miriam and Aaron from the entire OT is very isolated.
In this video the term authority is used very ambiguously. Now i’m not sure if you are speaking to a specific audience, but most Christians understand the submission to (biblical) leadership vs the authority of Christ over His church. Unless you are speaking to sects that is. Otherwise it is not coherent making such a big jump in comparison.
If 119 ministry wants to set an example of what biblical teaching is, well this isn’t it. As a ministry you should reconsider this eisegetical teaching.
Unfortunately this video leads to more harm than help.
Test everything.
This teaching is out of place. A pastor is just a pastor, and the church board is the one with the final authority on all matters.
Church board appoints pastor, who is responsible for everything that in the bible different people are responsible for (Ephesians 4:11).
Board of directors appoints CEO. So, we're dealing with a corporation here.
All they are saying basically is return to the biblical model or else continue to follow church tradition. So, I wouldn't say it is out of place.
Baptist perhaps lol
@advex4428 it's a church not a corporation. Pastor just leads the flock in spiritual matters, the whole body has the final authority. Yes, he is out of place.
The board rules the people, no the pastor rules the people.. Rev 2:15 So likewise you also have those who hold fast to the teaching of the Nicolaitans.
Rev 2:16 Therefore repent! But if you do not, I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war with them with the sword from my mouth.
@@tellittotheworld857 Do you want to quote scripture to show the validity of the traditional model of your church organization?