Very informative! I had not seen the research showing that more than one person had written it. Most of the shows that talk about it just repeat the same disinformation over and over. Thank you for taking a skeptical, yet balanced view.
Damn this was extremely interesting, I always thought this has been analysed and researched to death already, so chances of ever deciphering it would be slim.
So, when I was between twelve and fourteen years years of age, I've had two friends and a fat notebook. Every time we met, we took turns with who will take the notebook home. During the time it was with us, we wrote various observations, mostly about how annoyed we were with our parents, boys we were into and events we had opinions on. However, in our eyes at least, this content was suuuuuper scandalous so we had to make up our own alphabet in order to prevent our parents from seeing how much we trashtalked them. Often, when we were writing in haste, parts of that alphabet were replaced with actual letters, but skewed a bit, just enough to confuse but remain familiar to the reader. Sometimes, content was portrayed with drawings for when words fail to describe the visual nature of the subject. It seemed like the most common sense thing to do in the situation and it was super easy to follow. What I think about this manuscript, the reason for it looking the way it does might be rather similar. Perhaps someone in a vulnerable position, whether it being having less power or having a significantly determined role, needed to exchange or share information with others - without risking the discovery and/or misuse of the act. Purely from personal experience, it's as logical as it gets. But this too is an assumption.
When he said the manuscript has been written by 5 people, I thought of something similar. A collaborative writing project to share knowledge that was designed to be unreadable to anyone else. Since it seems to be very hard to interprete even the pictures, maybe they made reference to something personal. Like a plant would refer to one of the authors once giving that plant to another of the authors and the plant picture actually refers to the occasion the plant was given on, not the plant itself. Who knows, but I think it is a possibility that something like this was the reason this manuscript was made.
This is by far the most interesting, most informative and especially most intellectually honest video about the Voynich Manuscript I have ever seen. Great work. Subscribed ✔️
You did really well with this interview. Very well prepared and great questions. I have my own idea of the Voynich manuscript; I like to imagine it as the worlds oldest example of speculative evolution. It would be amazing to be part of a world with such beauty. And yes, I'm aware it's not spec evo,. But it could be
Incredibly interesting & the fact that he knows Harry Potter (the mandrake & the screaming) was pretty great as well. I’m so excited to see what breakthroughs come through with the work that his group is doing!
I remember seeing something about a family who identified the text as ancient Hungarian(?) and had successfully translated at least one full page of text. It was pretty convincing, but I never heard anything further about it... I guess it turned out to be another dead end. The mystery lives on... Great content thus far, good man. I look forward to what more you have in store.
Unfortunately, when you don't have specific skills and experience to do proper research into this kind of things it's easy to delude yourself into believing your wishful fantasies. There's been plenty of "decipherments" made by amateurs, that claim the language to be Turkish, Ukrainian, Latin, proto-Romance, etc., and for the uninitiated all of these analyses seem to "make sense".
I saw the same video. They're very convincing. Since we dont have examples of this language elsewhere then it's likely a language written in a new style characters than we are used to for that language.
I remember something like this, I believe there was even a youtube video, it was a father and his two sons, who were trying to translate it. Something like this, it has been several years since I looked into the Voynich manuscript, so I might remember it wrong.
@@amandak5738 I had to look it up again. The video has 2 million views its called Voynich Manuscript Revealed (2018). They claim in the description to have translated 30% of it and claim to have been recognized by several professionals in their updated comment on the video. If their wrong and since they're not selling anything, then why lie? Interesting for sure.
Whatever it is will be a game-changer for someone, even if that's only because they are extremely specialized in historical healing methods, or changes in astrological ideas over time.
i think this is part of the problem of the manuscript being so widely available. Yes you get more eyeballs on it, but you also get a lot of frankly unqualified people falsely claiming to have decoded it. There's been so many claims to have decoded it lately that the wikipedia doesn't even bother to list them after 2019. I think I've seen 2 or 3 new ones since then.
Well it doesn't matter if unqualified people falsely claim to decode it since there's people who falsely claim things about everything all the time- every other week there's a new conspiracy about anything, people constantly claiming theyve idetified the zodiac killer or dB cooper, saying they have proof the pyramids were built by aliens or are some electro magnetic device to create a portal or levatiation for intergalactic travel or whatever, it doesn't mean we should keep everything secret from everyone- people that are reasonable understand to trust the experts, and even the experts often have long debates and processes of having one settled claim they later realize was wrong and have to resettle it. It doesn't matter how many false claims there are the benefits definitely outweigh the cons
Ok, this will sound weird, but I promise it isn't. The interviewee is the most congenial scholar I've ever met. This is a... I wanna hug and squeeze that cute old man like he's my grandpa. I don't know how Yale got the stigma of being the snobby ones (probably the work of people from Harvard having better PR).
IN 1673 TOMAS DE MURILLO Y VELARDE, a personal physician to the Spanish royal family, published a treatise on medicinal plants entitled (Treaty on rare and migrating herbs). His ostensible purpose was to demonstrate the differences between the medicinal plant Abrotano (Artemisia. abrotanum), a species in the Asteracaea family, and its lesser variant Bupthalmo (another species of Asteracaea) with, as the full tide announces, "some annotations" on the subject of mandrake, a plant associated with love magic and fertility. Mandrake Roots have been compared to looking like people.
Just found your cannel, watched some videos and then decided to subscribe. Can I ask you a question? There's a tiny accent going on in your English. Are you from the French part of Canada? Just curious....
I always recall John Dee and the constructed language of Enochian that he supposedly received through direct communion with angels. Perhaps this is a similar esoteric/mystical constructed script, only we don't have the benefit of the sort of extensive explanatory notes Dee included in his diaries.
Quite interesting, & you managed your role of host & interviewer as a good professional journalist would (should). One would think you an expert. Well done!
The Goat feeding is a representation on possibly Spanish Monarch Philip V, House of Bourbon (1700-1761). The royal crest for the house of Bourbon has a Goat under the Star at the bottom of the crest.
Some of the Plants drawn look like something you would see for Detailed Scyphocrinites CRINOID Fossil plants from Morocco 480 Million Years Old. A book that detailed plants from ancient fossil finds on how they would look or how they could have played a roll in medicine. The Zaphrentis, Devonian Solitary Horn Coral , Tubulate corals are best known for colonial forms that grew in tight structures resembling a honeycomb.
it's very possible that this was a constructed language based on the creator's mother tongue. i bet it's related to some old religion or cult that would have gotten the creator persecuted for their beliefs.
I mean, this might a wild hypothesis but designed languages exist, at least in modern times. Could it be that it's the last remaining copy of some eccentric weirdo who invented his own writing system and tried to popularize it by categorizing plants etc.?
Please, please somebody explain why the linguists in Turkey are not getting and recognition for their efforts. They state the manuscript is written in a very old, old dialect of Turkish. There has also been nothing posted refuting their findings.
@@invoker7826 they don't reveal the reason they were given, just that they were rejected. They have also not made another video on their findings or submitted any further progress. They also refuse to reveal their processes, so that may be a factor in why they are not being recognised.
Seems interesting to me that Scyphocrinites CRINOID Fossil plants and Zaphrentis, Devonian Solitary Horn Coral are from from Morocco Africa. If you look at the drawing of the Sun the 2 stars would be your latitude and the other stars would be your longitude all take you to certain areas of Africa and the Gulf of Guinea. Maybe who ever wrote the book had a certain interest in this geographical location.
Seems interesting again the Picture of the Sun. Have you ever Heard the The phrase "the empire on which the sun never sets" The effective Spanish colonization of Africa was finally established in the first third century. North Morocco. Equatorial Guinea comprised what broadly could be defined as Spanish colonial Africa. Whom ever wrote this could clearly have lived in this region.
After uncountable listicles both recorded and written, the occasional skim of the subreddit, and multiple Wordpress pages by would-be code crackers, I thought I knew most of what there was to know about the Voynich Manuscript. I did not.
It's weird how science is a hostage of biases when the scientific method is all about getting rid of those. There should be science on how to invest in science. It wouldn't catch early on, but if enough people kept at it, maybe it would improve this sort of stuff like "bad reputation" of a field. Unfortunately, a lot of fields with good reputations are not cost-effective, like particle collisions, rocketry, and quantum computing to name a few familiar names. These are fields that are very unlikely to yield anything of value and cost fortunes to fund, but they make the headlines.
In the 15th century, you would look for a wealthy author of the book. The author might be the easiest part, but what language they used is not something I can comment on, I don't have that education. My first guess for the author is Elizabeth Bathory. She was definitely rich enough to buy the materials the book is made of, also she was very educated to stump the centuries lol. Anyway, if someone could know the history of Bathory, if they can get passed her bathing in blood, they might find a clue to the language or languages she used.
Here I was, thinking that someone should do a microbiome analysis on the manuscript because I haven't heard or read of anyone proposing this.... dammit! Back I go to sifting through what is known to find a new direction 🤔
Well, two books, both in the style of an encyclopedia, both from Europe and both from the 15th century will look similar. However, there are a couple differencs: the language, the script (as in which letters are used), the way in which the text is structured on the page, the consistency of that structure, the number of authors, the topic, the amount of realism, the colors used, the style of illustrations, the way illustrations and text are integrated with each other and last but not least the way in which the illustrations were made (Voynich has hand drawn illustrations, Meydenbach's book has them printed from woodcuts). Other than all that, totally simlar 😉 You know what else I noticed? My 8th grade physics book, kind of looks like the tax code, I wonder if anyone else has noticed that, probably written by the same person 😉 I see how people might think there are some similarities, but those two books aren't of any significant similarity much like my physics book and that tax code.
Do you seriously think anyone gets funding for this kind of thing? Who do you think would fund that? If researches wanted it to remain undecyphered, why then make the effort to put it all online for everyone to access freely? Plus, if some researchers don't want it resolved, how do they stop all other researchers and the generell public (which has had full access to the manuscript for decades) from decoding it? I know I once tried to make sense of it and no researcher broke my door down to prevent me from looking at the manuscript on wikipedia. I think you have a very scewed idea of how the scientific community works and what they profit from and what not. What really holds this research back is the fact, that it is near impossibly to secure any funding for your research, if you can not point out how the results of it can be monetized.
Creative destination, for example these two ladies from Yeles build their work mostly on the mystery of the script. In this case they have students and work. Let us say I have the answer and the translation of it. Are they interested to have it? No, because then the mystery is away and nobody shows attention to their investigations. There are other researchers too, like in England , Germany etc. They also build their deciphering around it. Try to provide them with the solution! They ignore you in the best case.
Very informative! I had not seen the research showing that more than one person had written it. Most of the shows that talk about it just repeat the same disinformation over and over. Thank you for taking a skeptical, yet balanced view.
Very good interview, you were well prepared and objective (which is not easy with this subject). I enjoyed Ray's explanations as always.
Thank you, that means a lot!
Damn this was extremely interesting, I always thought this has been analysed and researched to death already, so chances of ever deciphering it would be slim.
I know right? That's exactly what I thought as well
So, when I was between twelve and fourteen years years of age, I've had two friends and a fat notebook. Every time we met, we took turns with who will take the notebook home. During the time it was with us, we wrote various observations, mostly about how annoyed we were with our parents, boys we were into and events we had opinions on. However, in our eyes at least, this content was suuuuuper scandalous so we had to make up our own alphabet in order to prevent our parents from seeing how much we trashtalked them. Often, when we were writing in haste, parts of that alphabet were replaced with actual letters, but skewed a bit, just enough to confuse but remain familiar to the reader. Sometimes, content was portrayed with drawings for when words fail to describe the visual nature of the subject. It seemed like the most common sense thing to do in the situation and it was super easy to follow.
What I think about this manuscript, the reason for it looking the way it does might be rather similar. Perhaps someone in a vulnerable position, whether it being having less power or having a significantly determined role, needed to exchange or share information with others - without risking the discovery and/or misuse of the act.
Purely from personal experience, it's as logical as it gets.
But this too is an assumption.
When he said the manuscript has been written by 5 people, I thought of something similar.
A collaborative writing project to share knowledge that was designed to be unreadable to anyone else.
Since it seems to be very hard to interprete even the pictures, maybe they made reference to something personal. Like a plant would refer to one of the authors once giving that plant to another of the authors and the plant picture actually refers to the occasion the plant was given on, not the plant itself.
Who knows, but I think it is a possibility that something like this was the reason this manuscript was made.
Do you guys still have the book?
Thank you for this really interesting and informative interview.
It was a pleasure to make it but I'm glad you like it!
This is truly fascinating! Excellent interview!
Thank you!
Great job, I really enjoyed this.
Like others, I had assumed the manuscript had already been thoroughly researched!
Glad you enjoyed it!
This is by far the most interesting, most informative and especially most intellectually honest video about the Voynich Manuscript I have ever seen. Great work. Subscribed ✔️
You did really well with this interview. Very well prepared and great questions.
I have my own idea of the Voynich manuscript; I like to imagine it as the worlds oldest example of speculative evolution.
It would be amazing to be part of a world with such beauty.
And yes, I'm aware it's not spec evo,.
But it could be
Incredibly interesting & the fact that he knows Harry Potter (the mandrake & the screaming) was pretty great as well. I’m so excited to see what breakthroughs come through with the work that his group is doing!
Surprised this doesn't have more views
I remember seeing something about a family who identified the text as ancient Hungarian(?) and had successfully translated at least one full page of text. It was pretty convincing, but I never heard anything further about it... I guess it turned out to be another dead end. The mystery lives on...
Great content thus far, good man. I look forward to what more you have in store.
Unfortunately, when you don't have specific skills and experience to do proper research into this kind of things it's easy to delude yourself into believing your wishful fantasies. There's been plenty of "decipherments" made by amateurs, that claim the language to be Turkish, Ukrainian, Latin, proto-Romance, etc., and for the uninitiated all of these analyses seem to "make sense".
I saw the same video. They're very convincing. Since we dont have examples of this language elsewhere then it's likely a language written in a new style characters than we are used to for that language.
@@agreedydragon thank God! I thought I might have made it up or dreamt it or something! 😅 I don't feel so foolish now 💞
I remember something like this, I believe there was even a youtube video, it was a father and his two sons, who were trying to translate it. Something like this, it has been several years since I looked into the Voynich manuscript, so I might remember it wrong.
@@amandak5738 I had to look it up again. The video has 2 million views its called Voynich Manuscript Revealed (2018). They claim in the description to have translated 30% of it and claim to have been recognized by several professionals in their updated comment on the video. If their wrong and since they're not selling anything, then why lie? Interesting for sure.
Truly fascinating. If it ever gets deciphered, it better not be something really boring!
It's probably not anything mind-blowing, but it seems to be some kind of medieval medical text.
Whatever it is will be a game-changer for someone, even if that's only because they are extremely specialized in historical healing methods, or changes in astrological ideas over time.
I honestly think it would be incredibly funny if it was boring or fictional.
In the CC the teachers name says "Clair Bauberg" but the correct name is "Claire Bower" (minute 3:45)
i think this is part of the problem of the manuscript being so widely available. Yes you get more eyeballs on it, but you also get a lot of frankly unqualified people falsely claiming to have decoded it. There's been so many claims to have decoded it lately that the wikipedia doesn't even bother to list them after 2019. I think I've seen 2 or 3 new ones since then.
Well it doesn't matter if unqualified people falsely claim to decode it since there's people who falsely claim things about everything all the time- every other week there's a new conspiracy about anything, people constantly claiming theyve idetified the zodiac killer or dB cooper, saying they have proof the pyramids were built by aliens or are some electro magnetic device to create a portal or levatiation for intergalactic travel or whatever, it doesn't mean we should keep everything secret from everyone- people that are reasonable understand to trust the experts, and even the experts often have long debates and processes of having one settled claim they later realize was wrong and have to resettle it. It doesn't matter how many false claims there are the benefits definitely outweigh the cons
Ok, this will sound weird, but I promise it isn't. The interviewee is the most congenial scholar I've ever met. This is a... I wanna hug and squeeze that cute old man like he's my grandpa. I don't know how Yale got the stigma of being the snobby ones (probably the work of people from Harvard having better PR).
The plants could have been mistaken illustrations. I do recall a tiger had scales, so maybe it was a far away plant?
IN 1673 TOMAS DE MURILLO Y VELARDE, a personal physician to the Spanish royal family, published a treatise on medicinal plants entitled (Treaty on rare and migrating herbs). His ostensible purpose was to demonstrate the differences between the medicinal plant Abrotano (Artemisia. abrotanum), a species in the Asteracaea family, and its lesser variant Bupthalmo (another species of Asteracaea) with, as the full tide announces, "some annotations" on the subject of mandrake, a plant associated with love magic and fertility. Mandrake Roots have been compared to looking like people.
Just found your cannel, watched some videos and then decided to subscribe. Can I ask you a question? There's a tiny accent going on in your English. Are you from the French part of Canada? Just curious....
Haha, I do have a slight accent and good guess, but not, I'm not Quebecois
Wow, very interesting!! 👍
I always recall John Dee and the constructed language of Enochian that he supposedly received through direct communion with angels.
Perhaps this is a similar esoteric/mystical constructed script, only we don't have the benefit of the sort of extensive explanatory notes Dee included in his diaries.
Quite interesting, & you managed your role of host & interviewer as a good professional journalist would (should). One would think you an expert. Well done!
Thank you for the compliment!
If only we didn’t burn some libraries down
The Goat feeding is a representation on possibly Spanish Monarch Philip V, House of Bourbon (1700-1761). The royal crest for the house of Bourbon has a Goat under the Star at the bottom of the crest.
The book was written hundreds of years before that
4 it’s an undocumented phonetic script from a Middle Ages language. It could be very close to a known language or even be a known language
Some of the Plants drawn look like something you would see for Detailed Scyphocrinites CRINOID Fossil plants from Morocco 480 Million Years Old. A book that detailed plants from
ancient fossil finds on how they would look or how they could have played a roll in medicine. The Zaphrentis, Devonian Solitary Horn Coral , Tubulate corals are best known for colonial forms that grew in tight structures resembling a honeycomb.
it's very possible that this was a constructed language based on the creator's mother tongue. i bet it's related to some old religion or cult that would have gotten the creator persecuted for their beliefs.
I mean, this might a wild hypothesis but designed languages exist, at least in modern times. Could it be that it's the last remaining copy of some eccentric weirdo who invented his own writing system and tried to popularize it by categorizing plants etc.?
Please, please somebody explain why the linguists in Turkey are not getting and recognition for their efforts. They state the manuscript is written in a very old, old dialect of Turkish. There has also been nothing posted refuting their findings.
Their findings were submitted to Cambridge for review and rejected
@@stella.r2708 what was the reason for rejection?
@@invoker7826 they don't reveal the reason they were given, just that they were rejected. They have also not made another video on their findings or submitted any further progress. They also refuse to reveal their processes, so that may be a factor in why they are not being recognised.
🖼
Racecar, is the same.
When spelled back wards.
Seems interesting to me that Scyphocrinites CRINOID Fossil plants and Zaphrentis, Devonian Solitary Horn Coral are from from Morocco Africa. If you look at the drawing of the Sun the 2 stars would be your latitude and the other stars would be your longitude all take you to certain areas of Africa and the Gulf of Guinea. Maybe who ever wrote the book had a certain interest in this geographical location.
Seems interesting again the Picture of the Sun. Have you ever Heard the The phrase "the empire on which the sun never sets" The effective Spanish colonization of Africa was finally established in the first third century. North Morocco. Equatorial Guinea comprised what broadly could be defined as Spanish colonial Africa. Whom ever wrote this could clearly have lived in this region.
After uncountable listicles both recorded and written, the occasional skim of the subreddit, and multiple Wordpress pages by would-be code crackers, I thought I knew most of what there was to know about the Voynich Manuscript. I did not.
It's weird how science is a hostage of biases when the scientific method is all about getting rid of those. There should be science on how to invest in science. It wouldn't catch early on, but if enough people kept at it, maybe it would improve this sort of stuff like "bad reputation" of a field. Unfortunately, a lot of fields with good reputations are not cost-effective, like particle collisions, rocketry, and quantum computing to name a few familiar names. These are fields that are very unlikely to yield anything of value and cost fortunes to fund, but they make the headlines.
Has any one ever considered Geoffrey Chaucer?
In the 15th century, you would look for a wealthy author of the book. The author might be the easiest part, but what language they used is not something I can comment on, I don't have that education. My first guess for the author is Elizabeth Bathory. She was definitely rich enough to buy the materials the book is made of, also she was very educated to stump the centuries lol. Anyway, if someone could know the history of Bathory, if they can get passed her bathing in blood, they might find a clue to the language or languages she used.
One of the most similar-looking documents is the Codex Seraphinianus, by a living author (Luigi Serafini.) I wonder what he thinks of this.
The Codex Seraphinianus is purely artistic, maybe the Voynich manuscript is similar in motivation.
IMO modern day witches should be sought out for help in deciphering this book. They would hold the key to help.
How could they help? Modern day witchcraft only dates to the 1950s.
Here I was, thinking that someone should do a microbiome analysis on the manuscript because I haven't heard or read of anyone proposing this.... dammit! Back I go to sifting through what is known to find a new direction 🤔
Why it remains unsolved ?
It's writen, for, only those who have eyes to see it.
You need to go beyond your limets, to learn new things.
It's a fact.
I heard this text was from a Turkic language family?
Possibly written by Jacob Meydenbach??????? Just sayin'. What, Nobody yet noticed the similarity?
Well, two books, both in the style of an encyclopedia, both from Europe and both from the 15th century will look similar.
However, there are a couple differencs: the language, the script (as in which letters are used), the way in which the text is structured on the page, the consistency of that structure, the number of authors, the topic, the amount of realism, the colors used, the style of illustrations, the way illustrations and text are integrated with each other and last but not least the way in which the illustrations were made (Voynich has hand drawn illustrations, Meydenbach's book has them printed from woodcuts).
Other than all that, totally simlar 😉 You know what else I noticed? My 8th grade physics book, kind of looks like the tax code, I wonder if anyone else has noticed that, probably written by the same person 😉
I see how people might think there are some similarities, but those two books aren't of any significant similarity much like my physics book and that tax code.
It’s written in Arabic numerals
Why is it not deciphered? Some researchers don't want to be resolved. It represents a mystery which keeps them in business.
Do you seriously think anyone gets funding for this kind of thing? Who do you think would fund that?
If researches wanted it to remain undecyphered, why then make the effort to put it all online for everyone to access freely?
Plus, if some researchers don't want it resolved, how do they stop all other researchers and the generell public (which has had full access to the manuscript for decades) from decoding it? I know I once tried to make sense of it and no researcher broke my door down to prevent me from looking at the manuscript on wikipedia.
I think you have a very scewed idea of how the scientific community works and what they profit from and what not.
What really holds this research back is the fact, that it is near impossibly to secure any funding for your research, if you can not point out how the results of it can be monetized.
Creative destination, for example these two ladies from Yeles build their work mostly on the mystery of the script. In this case they have students and work. Let us say I have the answer and the translation of it. Are they interested to have it? No, because then the mystery is away and nobody shows attention to their investigations. There are other researchers too, like in England , Germany etc. They also build their deciphering around it. Try to provide them with the solution! They ignore you in the best case.
how boring
All I heard was blah blah blah chiseled jaw blah blah omg those lips blah blah that young man is gorgeous 🤣 blah blah what is this interview about? 😂