Its kind of insane how amazing this tech is and so many people just ignore it. I just cant imagine people seriously getting more excited about a more powerful tablet console (switch 2) over this holodeck tech lol. Plus it includes everything they are hoping a switch 2 to use (4nm soc, 4k displays, 120hz refresh). Even has the games support with batman arkham shadow, assassins creed nexus, metro awakening etc.
Switch 2 means new software on a better of standard of hardware from the best in the business, it's not as simple as being excited for it on a hardware level.
@@coolertuep a lot of people had their VR cherry popped by google cardboard, which gives a BAD first impression and its hard to kill that first impresson on top of that, its just hard to get people out of their comfort zones, VR is new and strange, flatscreeen gaming is understandable and comfortable, it can be hard for someone to justify $300 on something they may or may not like
Really glad they knew what they were talking about when mentioning VD. I've seen many VR headset/game reviews where they would use airlink or steamlink and complain about performance or stutters and barely address their connection methods. The other methods work, and often can work well, but never as consistently and as well as VD. Especially when you consider VDs customization and VDXR.
Problem is it's impossible to sort out what often comes down to home network issues with this sort of question. I also find AV1 encoding (using a 4070 Ti Super and Quest 3) and Virtual Desktop vastly superior to Steamlink or Airlink, with no noticeable compression artifacts or wifi stuttering to speak of. If you're running a dedicated, quality wifi 6E/7 access point, aren't dealing with channel saturation in your location, have your PC cabled directly to the switch/router the access point is running off with gigabit or better ethernet speeds, I can't see anyone ever choosing a cable unless its a static game like flight or racing sims.
Could DF make a video comparing AirLink/Virtual Desktop/SteamLink/USB cable? There could also be another comparison between only using 1 main router for your wifi and VR connection, and having a main router plus a dedicated router just for your VR connection. Finally, what the connection looks like without AV1 (RTX 3000) and with AV1 (RTX 4000). I know that's a lot, but it would be very useful for people who have bought or are planning on buying a Quest 3.
100% agree with John’s take (tried them all over Quest 2,3 and pro). Virtual Desktop is the answer. You can choose other codecs such as AV1 or much higher H264/5 and have quality resolutions options AND the user in question can choose to “enhance contrast/colors” to make Beat Saber more vibrant (as it’s not a game that demands color accuracy). Virtual desktop even without playing around with the settings is better.
One thing I found that dramatically improved my wireless PCVR was checking my router for channel width. Make sure the radio is set to at least 80Mhz, mine had defaulted to 40Mhz
If you really want the best you can even use 160mhz bands with a 6ghz router. I have about 25 networks overlapping me shown on my wifi analyzer app, none of them are using the really high channels near 7ghz so I essentially have my own perfectly clean channel, channel 200 to be exact
@@dther6314The higher the better, more mhz= more data packet transfers but less range, I would say time for a better router, unless you are happy with the current performance
I just picked up meta 3 back in october and I wonder all the time what the hell took me so long... I also wonder why people arent screaming from the highest mountains how awesome and game changing VR is! It has changed my life for the better. I exercise now!! I tried out supernatural fell in love with it, subbed to it, bought a apple watch started monitoring what I eat, work out an hour a day have lost 20ilbs and I run daily as well as working out in VR. Playing Hogwarts Legacy in VR with the UEVR mod is game changing. Such a great time to be alive and I hope the tech continues to grow!
As a long time VR user and quest 3 owner- yes, Virtual Desktop is what you want to be doing. More options, better results, easy to use. Use a dedicated router. Wireless bliss. Also please dive further into VR for your regular coverage! Keep pushing :)
Very true, and I have been astonished by the clarity and resolution of many light weight games, games like Lucky's Tale and ancient dungeon running at 200% resolution looks insane, it's just the heavier games like contractors looks very basic on the quest version, sharp graphics but lacking lighting particles and other effects compared to the PC version
Virtual Desktop all the way. I thought DF were novices when it comes to VR but once VD was mentioned I knew what he's talking about. Can't wait for the Deckard...
Depends on what runtime a game is using. Some games don't play nice with Virtual Desktop when they release so you either have to wait for official VDXR (Virtual Desktop OpenXR) support or you have to play with Air Link or Steam Link until that support is added. Sometimes it depends on what store you buy it from, too. Sadly, standardization is lacking and it depends on the individual developer.
just get the ryzen 4070, it had a MASSIVE technical process upgrade allowing for a extremely LOW tdp with a built in meta quest link feature making sure to TAPER the streaming latency and make the lag FADE away
They just need to stop worrying about incremental hardware improvements, and focus on NEW 'AAA' quality GAMES! It's sad that every review I read for a new VR game usually says it's great, but STILL isn't as impressive as Half Life ALYX, which is now nearly FIVE YEARS OLD! My buddy got into the Quest ecosystem after first trying my Rift CV1 (he's not a PC gamer), and the game they play most often is still GORILLA TAG...
@StreetPreacherr There's more stuff now come on. Golf+, walkabout minigolf, Racket club, synthruders, smash drums, contractors, veil, arizona sunshine 1& 2, Metro Awakening, Batman, Asgards wrath 2 etc, not to mention all the apps like earthquest (mindblowing!) UA-cam, netflix, chess. Hell, you can just play xbox flat games on a massive screen if you like. It's all coming down the wire thick &fast. Where can you go with flat games now really except even higher resolution and realistic graphics. The gameplay has been the same for decades pressing those buttons
A lot of times when people talk about seeing artifacts because of compression playing wireless or through the USB-C cable it’s not actually from compression. If you’re using a link cable or playing through Airlink ASW will randomly turn on in the oculus debug tool and is on by default. If you’re using a link cable or using Airlink, you need to have the debug tool saved as a shortcut by your apps. If you’re noticing ghosting or any type of artifacts, your ASW has probably automatically switched on. If you’re having router issues Prims make a dedicated Quest PCVR router for about $70 that hood up to ur pc and is very stable.
it's so weird DF is fielding this question. I sub to alot of VR channels, scrolled passed the thumbnail and thought nothing of it until I realized it said DF Clips. I look forward to the Day DF becomes more of a powerhouse with VR doing deep dives into the very technical aspects like only DF can. Currently it seems like the only one who even touches it at a casual level is John. The other two seem like clueless grandpa's , bewildered by the newfangled tech those crazy young'n are playing with.
Everyone warns about the router, but I have the one Comcast just sent me a few years back for my 1GB connection. Now, granted, I'm in a 1-story 1,200 sq ft place, but I have no problems what-so-ever playing over Virtual Desktop on my Quest 3 from my PC on the basic thing they sent me.
- 6E router (for 6Ghz, wifi 6 routers don't do 6Ghz and use congested 5Ghz) - virtual desktop - openxr - h264+ (500mbps) (or AV1 200mbps if you're ultra sensitive to color banding) Chefs kiss
Exactly this, I find 264+ 500mbps to produce the clearest image. And on top of godlike in VD I usually push an extra 30% the resolution through steam, having a 4090 helps.
I've had a Quest 2 for years. Finally grabbed a gaming PC in October and a Quest 3, as well. I don't even recall buying Virtual Desktop but I'm glad I did. For me, it's easily the best way to connect. Hate that i wasted money on a Link Cable.
Wireless VR with the Quest 3 and virtual desktop is this like modern technical magic that a lot of people don't believe is possible. And it's a bit of a sleeper that people don't know about because streamers and most content creators won't touch VR with a barge pole. I'm still on a 30 series card so I haven't been able to benefit from the AV1 codec but it's still good.
John's on it. Got my Quest 3 this week Additional a replacement for the index and Virtual Desktop is the way to go. Can run native and it is flawless. I was absolutely gob smacked. That said, you NEED a wifi 6E router to get it smooth and reliable. Waiting for Valves Deckard though. Will be day 1
When it comes to VR stream quality there's a few factors to keep in mind - Stream resolution, codec, WiFi connection, GPU video encoder and SteamVR resolution. If you can lock the stream resolution to the highest your PC can handle this will result in the best image quality at a given bitrate. Most modern video codecs can achieve very good results when encoding high resolution video... Do keep in mind that some GPUs produce poorer video resolve at a given resolution and bitrate - if you can, upgrade to a card with a more modern video encoder. Air Link will fallback to H264 in some instances, try to force H265 if possible. If you have a poor WiFi connection Air Link will automatically reduce bitrate - try to lock this using a debug tool, and use a dedicated router with 5GHz band set to 80MHz if you can. Turn off 2.4GHz for the dedicated router also... SteamVR resolution should always be set to 100% and locked at this when using VR streaming - having it higher means the video encoder must downscale the image before encoding which reduces image resolve.
My best setup so far - Virtual Desktop and Puppis S1 for router. I set VD settings to HVEC 10Bit. MAKE SURE YOU SET YOUR GPU SETTINGS TO VSYNC OFF AND MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE!!! At High settings in VD. I have 3080.
thats deff a wifi issue. i've setup 5 different pc-VR setups (most using Q2 or 3) for me and my friends its always been wifi issues that messes things up for image quality. Get a cheap wifi 6 rooter and use it just for a VR access and nothing else. Helps so much.
I really wish the Fremont has a built-in LAN capability to circumvent even needing to use the router to transmit the image to the Deckard and Deck when streaming wirelessly.
Steam link is okay but VD is just miles better. I just wish there was a way to keep the picture quality from artifacting so much though. I haven’t figured that out yet.
As long as you have the Q3 and not Q2, you do get very good image quality now wirelessly. It's not as good, but still very good. Like you said, need to have the proper router for the task.
Wifi6 router and Virtual Desktop. Then use the AV1 Quest 3 codec at maximum bitrate. Looks great, runs great, feels great ! And so many amazing options that you can use via VD. Plus you can also use an aftermarket USB-C to USB-C cable and plug it into the original charger and headset while using it and have basically infinite battery. Using the headset like that for a year now and all is perfect.
Is that in VD settings or streaming? I never know which one to max. I don't have anyone to watch my game so I'm assuming it's better to put "environment" to Low and bitrate to 6?
I swear I’ve tried everything but I’ll try again. My experience is I always see image compression and it drives me crazy. Virtual desktop also tells me I have no headset hooked up when I start a game sometimes too so I’ve had a better time with steam link.
My recommendation: an ethernet cable connecting the PC to a WiFi 6 router. The router operates a 5Ghz network that only the Quest joins. The router doesn’t allow any other devices on its WiFi 6 network. The router joins the home network. Run Virtual Desktop and enjoy transfer speeds of 1200 mbps.
Don’t mind wired but even with a 4090 I still get jitters with the link cable. Even with all the bitrate, debug tools, usb tweaks etc. seems like the only way is a proper PC headset.
Bear in mind the Quest 2 only supports Wifi 6 the Quest 3 supports 6E so 6E wifi or higher will be wasted on a Quest 2. I'm reasonably sure right now that for me just updating to the Quest 3 would net me higher network speeds without having to do anything else, which can be another nice reason in favor of the Quest 3 if you happen to have better wifi and a quest 2.
Did anyone noticed issue that steam vr has foveated rendering which makes only the center part of the image crisp, and the rest of the screen looks so blurry that text is unreadable?
Yeah i think its a method to get less latency at the cost of , it being blurry . But you can change it in the settings of steamvr while in vr . There is a steam link settings menu i think under vrsettings
I have virtual desktop but get annoying stutters and audio drops. Connected to a TPLink Deco M9 plus mesh network (the main mesh is on my desk, connected via cable to my ISP router). Guess that's not fast enough? Steamlink works fine though (but less detailed).
Question... Does it really matter very much to have a high-end GPU with the Quest 3 (with VD) I'm still using a RTX2080TI both in VR and 2D and must say I'm satisfied with the image quality and fps. I mainly use the Quest 3 for flight-simulator 2020/2024 as a replacement voor my G2. Although the Quest cannot directly connect with the display port I can use both sims in Ultra settings and the fps never drops below 30 fps in VR. So will a RTX4070 TI Super really make enough difference for the investment to be worth it? Of course in 2D it will make a huge difference, but in the Quest... I wonder?
What I want to know regarding VR gaming is why does Half Life Alyx say that my 4070 super has run out of memory but my GTX980 does not with the quest 3?
Are you using Air Link (so Meta's wireless solution)? If so, you should try Steam Link (free) of Virtual Desktop (paid), as actually discused in the video. Air Link (or rather the Meta Quest Link Windows app) has video memory overhead, if you use the other two methods that doesn't get used. But still weird that you run our of memory, with 12GB. What settings are you using? With high settings 8GB should be enough.
Been using virtual desktop. The same thing happens if I use PSVR 2 with the PC adapter. But as someone said in the comments if I ignore the warning it tends to be ok with only a crash here and there, however with 12GB VRAM and older 8GB cards running this fine, it has me baffled. (Oh yes I forgot to mention , yes it’s high settings)
Half-Life: Alyx has been my first experience with this and have only tried the link cable route (Quest Link and Steam VR) and I've blamed any slight issues and my aging laptop, but maybe I'll try virtual desktop for it to see if there's a difference.
I have an issue using wireless steam link on the quest 3, where around 20-25% of the time, when loading happens in game (half life:alyx is the game it happened with, but it likely happens in other games too) steam link will fail and throw up an error saying "the host PC has stopped streaming", what's weird is that the game is still running on my computer, but for some reason loading, such as when loading a save or going through a level transition will just break it, and it takes like 3 minutes to get it running again, for that reason I use the oculus app, but I'll have to buy virtual desktop if it's as good as you say
On the pico4 it feels like youre looking through goggles, is it same on quest 3. Psvr2 has mutch better fov it feels like youre there and the capple is not an issue it just makes the headset lighter and more confortable.
I have 10gig network setup to a virtual gaming pc with a 4080. My wifi is ubiquiti wifi 7 (their uplinks are 2.5 gb) Amazing experience using virtual desktop. I rarely get the stutters, they do happen but extremely rare like maybe 1 or 2 out of 5 full play sessions
I've gotta second virtual desktop in some testing. It's about more than just the bitrate, sometimes the actual performance of the compositor can wildly different. I found that the performance of Meta's native software was, more often than not, noticeably worse than virtual desktop. The latter just had better FPS and tighter frametimes, better image quality, and in general was a smoother experience than how janky AirLink is. Tested quite a few games, with and without SteamVR. Steam link is a good free option, I just can't recommend ever using the native meta software if you can help it though. Still prefer my cable though. Wireless can be nice, but even when pushing maxed out bitrates on Virtual Desktop with 500mbps H.264+ or 200mbps AV1 10-bit, the compression gets BAD in some games. Not ready to give up the tether yet here.
Virtual Desktop is the way to go. Steam Link is ok, but the built in foveated rendering is really annoying with the Quest 3 since the pancake lenses are super clear edge to edge, and foveated rendering really just makes it feel like you’re back on blurry old fresnel lenses. Quest/Air link has been ok for me and I haven’t had the same kind of jittery experience, but it can’t compare to the clarity and customization that you get with VD.
Oculus air link definitely works better if you test correctly using an oculus store game. You can't expect to play steam vr games using the oculus air link as its optimized to run games from their own store. Try a Meta quest game that has cross buy support.
Actually the opposite for me as I'm more lazy, Went from VD to SteamVR. The biggest difference you can make is just upgrade your router! I went from Wifi 6(not 6E) to Wifi 7 that has the 6ghz, Made a huge difference for streaming wireless VR, You don't need the latest Wifi 7 but at least get Wifi 6E to get the 6Ghz, No more buffering or stutters in VR especially if you are not in the same room as router.
Is it even possible to connect the Meta headset with a wire? I never really had a problem with PSVR with a wired setup seems like a small sacrifice for flawless image quality
For quest it doesn't help to connect over cable, you're still encoding and decoding video it's just sent over the usb-c cable instead of wireless. No great benefit unless your network sucks in fact id argue it's worse because playtime is cut down compared to wireless with swappable bobovr batteries for endless wireless sessions. PC headsets the connect through HDMI or DP are a different thing. That's the best way to play.
Honestly I stopped using any wireless streaming. I play all games natively on the headset except for Elite Dangerous which I play with a wired connection. The inconsistency/stuttering and compression was too much for me.
Did he say a second router (in game room) not connected to downstairs PC and this works?? Interested because of similar scenario at my house with ok but not great results.
It's an endless chicken game. To this day the only true AAA VR game is half life Alyx. Studios won't bother making high quality, high budget games for such a niche market, and people aren't going to buy expensive headsets because there's no high quality groundbreaking game. After Meta decided to actively try to kill PCVR in favor of their mobile platform with PS1 graphics the situation became even worse.
@@PixelPioneer23-q5p I play both on PC, Quest and PSVR. There’s great titles on all of them. Alyx is far far from the only game worth playing. Batman just released on Quest and it’s great.
@@Actualchristianity I didn't say there aren't other good games, I said there aren't other true AAA games in VR. Being a good game doesn't mean you are at the same technical level of half life Alyx. Batman is a mobile game that runs at a low frame rate where the framerate tanks hard in every demanding scene, not to mention it also has traversal stuttering.
@@PixelPioneer23-q5p there are plenty of AAA quality vr games. Asgards wrath 1, Asgards wrath 2, lone echo 1 and lone echo 2. Stormland VR, Batman shadows vr, Resident evil 8 vr, resident evil 4 vr, horizon call of the moutnain, GT7 vr. Assasins creed VR EDIT: also dismissing Batman shadows vr as a mobile game, is like saying nintendo switch has no AAA games because its also a mobile platform.
cable link is the way to go for heavy games. its just miles better. I cant max or even play high 80 fps on VD AV1. but I can easily max graphics and 80 FPS using cable h264 through quest debug tool. problem is wire qnd unable to use max recharge on the small battery so you have to compromise with that but its ok. it gives about 3 hours while charging from the PC
they all dont worked for me. at all. i have a powerline setup and it seems to me it somehow doesnt find its way to the wifi router. cable was the only thing that worked and i stopped caring for pc vr with the quest :(
Well, it does that, too, but also goes into VR once you launch a game. You need the wireless version that you buy from the Quest store (from inside the headset or Meta's app on your phone) NOT the version that's on Steam.
Aren't there caveats with this though. You have to be connected to a close router at 5GHz only with router dependencies some being better than others? It would be hugely helpful to have a nerd-moot about this.. haaaruum!
Psst, but the "best" way might be through HDMI link using a wireless transmitter and HDMI capture card! Yeah yeah, that's for flat games but still! You can connect Switch, PS5, Steam Deck, and more doing it this way!
Btw the whole reason its better is bc its av1 and im hoping qeust would make there link better bc ik they can but they dont since they want you to have as many reasons as possible to play standalone
virtual desktop wireless or wired is significantly more taxing on my gpu and looks much worse than airlink/link with 1.4 ss at 200/850mbs. yes i have tried all the settings in vd. my use case is specifically sim racing so basically if it's running my sims well airlink for normal games is always absolutely flawless and visually stunning. this is not the case with vd, wireless or wired i get the same stuttering and it's at 140% on the gpu for way less visual fidelity, i rarely hit 60% on the gpu with airlink/link. that being said update v72 pcvr has caused millions of error files to be written on the c drive and a decoupling of app selected hz and in game framerate which causes a horizontal screen tear when moving left or right. so currently i cannot simrace in vr.
What I find the most surprising about VR is simply how good it is and how small its adoption is. There are still people confidently saying VR is a gimmick but have never tried it. I would say, since the very first iteration of modern VR with dk1 and vive, VR has been an abolute game changer for certain genres of games. I genuinely think the slow adoption has been due to the 'core' gamers, being physically inactive old sloths, too resistant to change. On the other hand, I've observed kids being quick to adapt to the medium (my unfortunate experience on multiplayer VR has been 90% kids) I feel quite confident its more of a generational inertia than actual motion sickness issues. I have motion sickness in cars but never in VR, apart from the first hour or so back in 2020. Its like how my dad could never adapt to thumbsticks on game controllers
I agree, my "gamer" work colleagues glaze over when I bleat about it's many merits but they've never even tried it lol. I think it's in a good position now and as much as I hate all the little kids, they're gonna look back at their Quest 3's like we look back at our ps1's etc.
As they get older, they will be the ones creating the software and playing the games. The situation is definitely going to improve in the coming years!
@@gabepvpz 100%! Even though they can be annoying, I'm kinda jealous of these kids as the vr/ar they'll experience one day will be what we deamt of. I guess we have to be grateful of all the changes we've already seen and feel lucky we even have such things as Quest 3's now!
VD is the way. Just get the version on the Meta store, not Steam (it's not for Quest HMDs). Also don't turn up bitrate too high, the headset can get choked by it. Airlink works poorly on Q3 compared to Q2 for some reason. (or did in mid 2024). Steam's tool is mid, but at least free.
I wish y'all would talk about VR more. Hopefully the Valve Deckard can revitalize the market.
Its kind of insane how amazing this tech is and so many people just ignore it. I just cant imagine people seriously getting more excited about a more powerful tablet console (switch 2) over this holodeck tech lol.
Plus it includes everything they are hoping a switch 2 to use (4nm soc, 4k displays, 120hz refresh). Even has the games support with batman arkham shadow, assassins creed nexus, metro awakening etc.
I honestly think the market is fine, Meta has basically dominated it and made it affordable, but I still look forward to what the Deckard has to offer
Switch 2 means new software on a better of standard of hardware from the best in the business, it's not as simple as being excited for it on a hardware level.
@@coolertuep a lot of people had their VR cherry popped by google cardboard, which gives a BAD first impression and its hard to kill that first impresson
on top of that, its just hard to get people out of their comfort zones, VR is new and strange, flatscreeen gaming is understandable and comfortable, it can be hard for someone to justify $300 on something they may or may not like
Too be fair the Quest 3 is doing that all on its own.. Especially because of its AR capabilities..
Ethernet cable for PC then wirelessly linking with Steam is so smooth on the Quest 2 for me.
Really glad they knew what they were talking about when mentioning VD. I've seen many VR headset/game reviews where they would use airlink or steamlink and complain about performance or stutters and barely address their connection methods. The other methods work, and often can work well, but never as consistently and as well as VD. Especially when you consider VDs customization and VDXR.
Agreed, when Virtual Desktop was mentioned they kinda know!
VD is great! Just a shame we have to go through the 3rd party route for this, and not something built in from Meta.
@ following the history, Meta Link wouldn't have existed without Virtual Desktop coming first 😂
@@LunchAndVR Yeah, I know. Meta makes great headsets, but they sure are lacking on the software side.
Problem is it's impossible to sort out what often comes down to home network issues with this sort of question. I also find AV1 encoding (using a 4070 Ti Super and Quest 3) and Virtual Desktop vastly superior to Steamlink or Airlink, with no noticeable compression artifacts or wifi stuttering to speak of. If you're running a dedicated, quality wifi 6E/7 access point, aren't dealing with channel saturation in your location, have your PC cabled directly to the switch/router the access point is running off with gigabit or better ethernet speeds, I can't see anyone ever choosing a cable unless its a static game like flight or racing sims.
Could DF make a video comparing AirLink/Virtual Desktop/SteamLink/USB cable? There could also be another comparison between only using 1 main router for your wifi and VR connection, and having a main router plus a dedicated router just for your VR connection. Finally, what the connection looks like without AV1 (RTX 3000) and with AV1 (RTX 4000). I know that's a lot, but it would be very useful for people who have bought or are planning on buying a Quest 3.
There's multiple people who have done benchmarks comparing those 3. Seriously, just search
@@deluge6479 Sorry, I'm not really finding any comprehensive videos, what channels are you talking about?
100% agree with John’s take (tried them all over Quest 2,3 and pro).
Virtual Desktop is the answer. You can choose other codecs such as AV1 or much higher H264/5 and have quality resolutions options AND the user in question can choose to “enhance contrast/colors” to make Beat Saber more vibrant (as it’s not a game that demands color accuracy). Virtual desktop even without playing around with the settings is better.
One thing I found that dramatically improved my wireless PCVR was checking my router for channel width. Make sure the radio is set to at least 80Mhz, mine had defaulted to 40Mhz
If you really want the best you can even use 160mhz bands with a 6ghz router. I have about 25 networks overlapping me shown on my wifi analyzer app, none of them are using the really high channels near 7ghz so I essentially have my own perfectly clean channel, channel 200 to be exact
i have a D-Link, and don't have the option to choose my bandwith, i can only remove one (2 choice => 20/40/80 or 20/40 )
@@dther6314The higher the better, more mhz= more data packet transfers but less range, I would say time for a better router, unless you are happy with the current performance
@@RCSky7711 yeah, i know, but what i say is that i can't choose one frequency over the others just 2 "auto" setting
I just picked up meta 3 back in october and I wonder all the time what the hell took me so long... I also wonder why people arent screaming from the highest mountains how awesome and game changing VR is! It has changed my life for the better. I exercise now!! I tried out supernatural fell in love with it, subbed to it, bought a apple watch started monitoring what I eat, work out an hour a day have lost 20ilbs and I run daily as well as working out in VR. Playing Hogwarts Legacy in VR with the UEVR mod is game changing. Such a great time to be alive and I hope the tech continues to grow!
As a long time VR user and quest 3 owner- yes, Virtual Desktop is what you want to be doing. More options, better results, easy to use. Use a dedicated router. Wireless bliss.
Also please dive further into VR for your regular coverage! Keep pushing :)
How do you set up a dedicated router? Like you hook up a router to your isp router?
Av1 on virtual desktop specifically has a setting to increase the quality of darker areas, I think that might be why it looked so good
In the case of Rythm and competitive titles. Just buy them on the headset.
Very true, and I have been astonished by the clarity and resolution of many light weight games, games like Lucky's Tale and ancient dungeon running at 200% resolution looks insane, it's just the heavier games like contractors looks very basic on the quest version, sharp graphics but lacking lighting particles and other effects compared to the PC version
Virtual Desktop all the way. I thought DF were novices when it comes to VR but once VD was mentioned I knew what he's talking about. Can't wait for the Deckard...
Depends on what runtime a game is using. Some games don't play nice with Virtual Desktop when they release so you either have to wait for official VDXR (Virtual Desktop OpenXR) support or you have to play with Air Link or Steam Link until that support is added. Sometimes it depends on what store you buy it from, too. Sadly, standardization is lacking and it depends on the individual developer.
just get the ryzen 4070, it had a MASSIVE technical process upgrade allowing for a extremely LOW tdp with a built in meta quest link feature making sure to TAPER the streaming latency and make the lag FADE away
might as well be waiting for HL3 too
@@ebot1944 load paper tray
Everyone i’ve let use my vr headset has bought one. VR games, experiences, movies, productivity are breathtaking
Exactly, it's bloody amazing now.
They just need to stop worrying about incremental hardware improvements, and focus on NEW 'AAA' quality GAMES!
It's sad that every review I read for a new VR game usually says it's great, but STILL isn't as impressive as Half Life ALYX, which is now nearly FIVE YEARS OLD!
My buddy got into the Quest ecosystem after first trying my Rift CV1 (he's not a PC gamer), and the game they play most often is still GORILLA TAG...
@StreetPreacherr There's more stuff now come on. Golf+, walkabout minigolf, Racket club, synthruders, smash drums, contractors, veil, arizona sunshine 1& 2, Metro Awakening, Batman, Asgards wrath 2 etc, not to mention all the apps like earthquest (mindblowing!) UA-cam, netflix, chess. Hell, you can just play xbox flat games on a massive screen if you like. It's all coming down the wire thick &fast. Where can you go with flat games now really except even higher resolution and realistic graphics. The gameplay has been the same for decades pressing those buttons
Perfect timing for this video. I've just got the Quest 3 and was wondering about linking it to my PC. Virtual Desktop it is
For the best performance make sure your PC is connected to the router with a cable and not wirelessly. Enjoy!
Get a second WiFi 6 router solely for your PC, Quest 3 and a Ethernet connection to your primary internet wifi router.
A lot of times when people talk about seeing artifacts because of compression playing wireless or through the USB-C cable it’s not actually from compression. If you’re using a link cable or playing through Airlink ASW will randomly turn on in the oculus debug tool and is on by default. If you’re using a link cable or using Airlink, you need to have the debug tool saved as a shortcut by your apps. If you’re noticing ghosting or any type of artifacts, your ASW has probably automatically switched on. If you’re having router issues Prims make a dedicated Quest PCVR router for about $70 that hood up to ur pc and is very stable.
it's so weird DF is fielding this question.
I sub to alot of VR channels, scrolled passed the thumbnail and thought nothing of it until I realized it said DF Clips.
I look forward to the Day DF becomes more of a powerhouse with VR doing deep dives into the very technical aspects like only DF can.
Currently it seems like the only one who even touches it at a casual level is John.
The other two seem like clueless grandpa's , bewildered by the newfangled tech those crazy young'n are playing with.
Virtual Desktop has been the best for me. Very much worth it.
Everyone warns about the router, but I have the one Comcast just sent me a few years back for my 1GB connection. Now, granted, I'm in a 1-story 1,200 sq ft place, but I have no problems what-so-ever playing over Virtual Desktop on my Quest 3 from my PC on the basic thing they sent me.
- 6E router (for 6Ghz, wifi 6 routers don't do 6Ghz and use congested 5Ghz)
- virtual desktop
- openxr
- h264+ (500mbps) (or AV1 200mbps if you're ultra sensitive to color banding)
Chefs kiss
This is the way, though I gotta recommend HEVC 10 bit as well. Colors are pretty nice.
Exactly this, I find 264+ 500mbps to produce the clearest image.
And on top of godlike in VD I usually push an extra 30% the resolution through steam, having a 4090 helps.
Holy shit they are in the same room
I've had a Quest 2 for years. Finally grabbed a gaming PC in October and a Quest 3, as well.
I don't even recall buying Virtual Desktop but I'm glad I did. For me, it's easily the best way to connect. Hate that i wasted money on a Link Cable.
Wireless VR with the Quest 3 and virtual desktop is this like modern technical magic that a lot of people don't believe is possible. And it's a bit of a sleeper that people don't know about because streamers and most content creators won't touch VR with a barge pole. I'm still on a 30 series card so I haven't been able to benefit from the AV1 codec but it's still good.
Steam Link is the most simple but Virtual Desktop is 👑
About time for more VR content. Better late than never.
wireless VR streaming works incredibly well if you have a dedicated setup with a router just for your headset, in the same room with you
John's on it.
Got my Quest 3 this week Additional a replacement for the index and Virtual Desktop is the way to go.
Can run native and it is flawless. I was absolutely gob smacked.
That said, you NEED a wifi 6E router to get it smooth and reliable.
Waiting for Valves Deckard though. Will be day 1
When it comes to VR stream quality there's a few factors to keep in mind - Stream resolution, codec, WiFi connection, GPU video encoder and SteamVR resolution.
If you can lock the stream resolution to the highest your PC can handle this will result in the best image quality at a given bitrate. Most modern video codecs can achieve very good results when encoding high resolution video... Do keep in mind that some GPUs produce poorer video resolve at a given resolution and bitrate - if you can, upgrade to a card with a more modern video encoder.
Air Link will fallback to H264 in some instances, try to force H265 if possible. If you have a poor WiFi connection Air Link will automatically reduce bitrate - try to lock this using a debug tool, and use a dedicated router with 5GHz band set to 80MHz if you can. Turn off 2.4GHz for the dedicated router also...
SteamVR resolution should always be set to 100% and locked at this when using VR streaming - having it higher means the video encoder must downscale the image before encoding which reduces image resolve.
My best setup so far - Virtual Desktop and Puppis S1 for router. I set VD settings to HVEC 10Bit. MAKE SURE YOU SET YOUR GPU SETTINGS TO VSYNC OFF AND MAXIMUM PERFORMANCE!!!
At High settings in VD. I have 3080.
I do the exact same; its amazing
thats deff a wifi issue. i've setup 5 different pc-VR setups (most using Q2 or 3) for me and my friends its always been wifi issues that messes things up for image quality. Get a cheap wifi 6 rooter and use it just for a VR access and nothing else. Helps so much.
Meta link has to be optimized with the oculus debugg tool
This. I've used Oculus link for years and I don't have a lot of complaints. *Ducks and hides*
oo i love the face to face setup!
I really wish the Fremont has a built-in LAN capability to circumvent even needing to use the router to transmit the image to the Deckard and Deck when streaming wirelessly.
Steam link is okay but VD is just miles better. I just wish there was a way to keep the picture quality from artifacting so much though. I haven’t figured that out yet.
It looks like Alex had no sleep recently like he’s just hanging in there 😂😅
100% agree. Virtual Desktop with a WiFi-6 router and Bob’s your uncle.
As long as you have the Q3 and not Q2, you do get very good image quality now wirelessly.
It's not as good, but still very good. Like you said, need to have the proper router for the task.
Wifi6 router and Virtual Desktop. Then use the AV1 Quest 3 codec at maximum bitrate. Looks great, runs great, feels great ! And so many amazing options that you can use via VD. Plus you can also use an aftermarket USB-C to USB-C cable and plug it into the original charger and headset while using it and have basically infinite battery. Using the headset like that for a year now and all is perfect.
Yes! FAR better than Quest Link.
Yeah I just got a 4070 super from a 3070 and the AV1 quality was tremendously better. Little bit more latency, but a lot closer to wired quality to me
6E*
@@soxxks 6 was enough for me, but every environment is different. I don't knock 6E though, it's everything 6 should have been.
Is that in VD settings or streaming? I never know which one to max. I don't have anyone to watch my game so I'm assuming it's better to put "environment" to Low and bitrate to 6?
I swear I’ve tried everything but I’ll try again. My experience is I always see image compression and it drives me crazy. Virtual desktop also tells me I have no headset hooked up when I start a game sometimes too so I’ve had a better time with steam link.
My recommendation: an ethernet cable connecting the PC to a WiFi 6 router. The router operates a 5Ghz network that only the Quest joins. The router doesn’t allow any other devices on its WiFi 6 network. The router joins the home network. Run Virtual Desktop and enjoy transfer speeds of 1200 mbps.
Amazing video, thank you Digital Foundry.
Don’t mind wired but even with a 4090 I still get jitters with the link cable. Even with all the bitrate, debug tools, usb tweaks etc. seems like the only way is a proper PC headset.
I like to see a more technical video with deeper analyses, thank you regardless
Virtual Desktop. It just works and looks great. Airlink is ok, but it's not consistent. Sometimes, it doesn't like to start up correctly.
VD is absolutely the way to go. Amazing program with awesome support.
Bear in mind the Quest 2 only supports Wifi 6 the Quest 3 supports 6E so 6E wifi or higher will be wasted on a Quest 2. I'm reasonably sure right now that for me just updating to the Quest 3 would net me higher network speeds without having to do anything else, which can be another nice reason in favor of the Quest 3 if you happen to have better wifi and a quest 2.
Did anyone noticed issue that steam vr has foveated rendering which makes only the center part of the image crisp, and the rest of the screen looks so blurry that text is unreadable?
Yeah i think its a method to get less latency at the cost of , it being blurry . But you can change it in the settings of steamvr while in vr . There is a steam link settings menu i think under vrsettings
I have virtual desktop but get annoying stutters and audio drops. Connected to a TPLink Deco M9 plus mesh network (the main mesh is on my desk, connected via cable to my ISP router). Guess that's not fast enough? Steamlink works fine though (but less detailed).
Question... Does it really matter very much to have a high-end GPU with the Quest 3 (with VD) I'm still using a RTX2080TI both in VR and 2D and must say I'm satisfied with the image quality and fps. I mainly use the Quest 3 for flight-simulator 2020/2024 as a replacement voor my G2. Although the Quest cannot directly connect with the display port I can use both sims in Ultra settings and the fps never drops below 30 fps in VR. So will a RTX4070 TI Super really make enough difference for the investment to be worth it? Of course in 2D it will make a huge difference, but in the Quest... I wonder?
What I want to know regarding VR gaming is why does Half Life Alyx say that my 4070 super has run out of memory but my GTX980 does not with the quest 3?
Mine did the same thing even with my 4090. I just ignored the warning, and proceeded to play with no problem.
Playing Half Life Alyx on an 8GB RTX4060 here - runs fine.
Alyx never got updated to support any GPU past it's release date and will say that. It's fine.
Are you using Air Link (so Meta's wireless solution)? If so, you should try Steam Link (free) of Virtual Desktop (paid), as actually discused in the video. Air Link (or rather the Meta Quest Link Windows app) has video memory overhead, if you use the other two methods that doesn't get used.
But still weird that you run our of memory, with 12GB. What settings are you using? With high settings 8GB should be enough.
Been using virtual desktop. The same thing happens if I use PSVR 2 with the PC adapter. But as someone said in the comments if I ignore the warning it tends to be ok with only a crash here and there, however with 12GB VRAM and older 8GB cards running this fine, it has me baffled. (Oh yes I forgot to mention , yes it’s high settings)
What’s the most affordable router that would work for a great set up? Thanks jn advance.
Half-Life: Alyx has been my first experience with this and have only tried the link cable route (Quest Link and Steam VR) and I've blamed any slight issues and my aging laptop, but maybe I'll try virtual desktop for it to see if there's a difference.
Quest 3, Virtual Desktop, 40xx GPU with AV1 codec and a dedicated WiFi 6E router is the best way to play VR wireless on pc. Awesome native image!
Virtual desktop will always be king. Guy is a virtual God with that app.
I just use the WiFi 5 adapter from PC hotspot direct to Quest 3 with SteamLink and it's the best for me.
I have an issue using wireless steam link on the quest 3, where around 20-25% of the time, when loading happens in game (half life:alyx is the game it happened with, but it likely happens in other games too) steam link will fail and throw up an error saying "the host PC has stopped streaming", what's weird is that the game is still running on my computer, but for some reason loading, such as when loading a save or going through a level transition will just break it, and it takes like 3 minutes to get it running again, for that reason I use the oculus app, but I'll have to buy virtual desktop if it's as good as you say
On the pico4 it feels like youre looking through goggles, is it same on quest 3. Psvr2 has mutch better fov it feels like youre there and the capple is not an issue it just makes the headset lighter and more confortable.
I have 10gig network setup to a virtual gaming pc with a 4080. My wifi is ubiquiti wifi 7 (their uplinks are 2.5 gb)
Amazing experience using virtual desktop. I rarely get the stutters, they do happen but extremely rare like maybe 1 or 2 out of 5 full play sessions
ALVR works pretty well for me on Linux with Quest 1
I've gotta second virtual desktop in some testing. It's about more than just the bitrate, sometimes the actual performance of the compositor can wildly different. I found that the performance of Meta's native software was, more often than not, noticeably worse than virtual desktop. The latter just had better FPS and tighter frametimes, better image quality, and in general was a smoother experience than how janky AirLink is. Tested quite a few games, with and without SteamVR.
Steam link is a good free option, I just can't recommend ever using the native meta software if you can help it though.
Still prefer my cable though. Wireless can be nice, but even when pushing maxed out bitrates on Virtual Desktop with 500mbps H.264+ or 200mbps AV1 10-bit, the compression gets BAD in some games. Not ready to give up the tether yet here.
Definitely still tether gang here. I was originally PSVR 1 back in the day so I'm just used to it.
I googled this yesterday, great timing!
Virtual Desktop is the way to go. Steam Link is ok, but the built in foveated rendering is really annoying with the Quest 3 since the pancake lenses are super clear edge to edge, and foveated rendering really just makes it feel like you’re back on blurry old fresnel lenses. Quest/Air link has been ok for me and I haven’t had the same kind of jittery experience, but it can’t compare to the clarity and customization that you get with VD.
jesus are you guys reading my mind or something, once again I was thinking about a subject yesterday and then I see a video from DF discussing it
Wifi 6 is a minimum. I also use Virtual Desktop. It is almost flawless.
6E*
Wifi 6 is only 5Ghz. 6E is 6Ghz
5 ghz works as well if your network isnt crowded. 6e/6 ghz helps in busy areas
@@coolertuep Not if you want the highest bitrates (highest clarity). But sure, it can work well enough
Oculus air link definitely works better if you test correctly using an oculus store game. You can't expect to play steam vr games using the oculus air link as its optimized to run games from their own store. Try a Meta quest game that has cross buy support.
For me, ALVR is where it's at... Good image quality and most importantly, I can play wireless PCVR in my Quest 3 on Linux.
Actually the opposite for me as I'm more lazy, Went from VD to SteamVR.
The biggest difference you can make is just upgrade your router!
I went from Wifi 6(not 6E) to Wifi 7 that has the 6ghz, Made a huge difference for streaming wireless VR, You don't need the latest Wifi 7 but at least get Wifi 6E to get the 6Ghz, No more buffering or stutters in VR especially if you are not in the same room as router.
Is it even possible to connect the Meta headset with a wire? I never really had a problem with PSVR with a wired setup seems like a small sacrifice for flawless image quality
It sure is! And it works great if you have a decent cable to do it with.
For quest it doesn't help to connect over cable, you're still encoding and decoding video it's just sent over the usb-c cable instead of wireless. No great benefit unless your network sucks in fact id argue it's worse because playtime is cut down compared to wireless with swappable bobovr batteries for endless wireless sessions.
PC headsets the connect through HDMI or DP are a different thing. That's the best way to play.
Honestly I stopped using any wireless streaming. I play all games natively on the headset except for Elite Dangerous which I play with a wired connection. The inconsistency/stuttering and compression was too much for me.
Did he say a second router (in game room) not connected to downstairs PC and this works??
Interested because of similar scenario at my house with ok but not great results.
Definitely can concur that Virtual Desktop is the way to go. Tried Air Link and Virtual Desktop was enormously better.
VD is the best. I've tried all 3 and he's right. He needs to put the coding AV1 Q3
Give beat saber a go. Even if your not into rythm games. Its worth atleast trying
Crazy how VR is the next generation of gaming, but 99% of the gaming community still dismisses it to this day.
I think they will exist alongside one another until full dive vr happens. Additionally things like the internet where shunned by some groups early on
It's an endless chicken game. To this day the only true AAA VR game is half life Alyx. Studios won't bother making high quality, high budget games for such a niche market, and people aren't going to buy expensive headsets because there's no high quality groundbreaking game.
After Meta decided to actively try to kill PCVR in favor of their mobile platform with PS1 graphics the situation became even worse.
@@PixelPioneer23-q5p I play both on PC, Quest and PSVR. There’s great titles on all of them. Alyx is far far from the only game worth playing. Batman just released on Quest and it’s great.
@@Actualchristianity I didn't say there aren't other good games, I said there aren't other true AAA games in VR. Being a good game doesn't mean you are at the same technical level of half life Alyx. Batman is a mobile game that runs at a low frame rate where the framerate tanks hard in every demanding scene, not to mention it also has traversal stuttering.
@@PixelPioneer23-q5p there are plenty of AAA quality vr games. Asgards wrath 1, Asgards wrath 2, lone echo 1 and lone echo 2. Stormland VR, Batman shadows vr, Resident evil 8 vr, resident evil 4 vr, horizon call of the moutnain, GT7 vr. Assasins creed VR
EDIT: also dismissing Batman shadows vr as a mobile game, is like saying nintendo switch has no AAA games because its also a mobile platform.
Richard and Alex did a fantastic job trying to seem interested.
I'M interested. 😂
@@SpiderLukeMe too, vr's amazing now.
Stream Link.
Is it enough with VD, or do i need steam vr to?
cable link is the way to go for heavy games. its just miles better. I cant max or even play high 80 fps on VD AV1. but I can easily max graphics and 80 FPS using cable h264 through quest debug tool. problem is wire qnd unable to use max recharge on the small battery so you have to compromise with that but its ok. it gives about 3 hours while charging from the PC
the smear has absolutely killed my love of vr, wireless is very freeing but the trade off is not worth it. if you dont notice it try skyrim vr
they all dont worked for me. at all. i have a powerline setup and it seems to me it somehow doesnt find its way to the wifi router. cable was the only thing that worked and i stopped caring for pc vr with the quest :(
How does it work with virtual desktop? I thought it was literally just that, like pancake screen on a vr headset?
Well, it does that, too, but also goes into VR once you launch a game. You need the wireless version that you buy from the Quest store (from inside the headset or Meta's app on your phone) NOT the version that's on Steam.
Just play beat saber native, its not demanding at all lol
Ah, a person of culture.
Virtual desktop for the win!
I use a puppis s1 and it's fantastic
Aren't there caveats with this though. You have to be connected to a close router at 5GHz only with router dependencies some being better than others? It would be hugely helpful to have a nerd-moot about this.. haaaruum!
Virtual desktop is a necessity.
Virtual desktop FTW!
Psst, but the "best" way might be through HDMI link using a wireless transmitter and HDMI capture card! Yeah yeah, that's for flat games but still! You can connect Switch, PS5, Steam Deck, and more doing it this way!
VR MENTIONED
Virtual Desktop or steamlink
and with the quest 3 get a wifi 6e router.
jesus i love these nerds. thanks for the vr advice
Steamlink is surprisingly stable in my experience...
Agree all the way, virtual desktop is the way. The others get the job done pretty much fine though.
Btw the whole reason its better is bc its av1 and im hoping qeust would make there link better bc ik they can but they dont since they want you to have as many reasons as possible to play standalone
virtual desktop wireless or wired is significantly more taxing on my gpu and looks much worse than airlink/link with 1.4 ss at 200/850mbs. yes i have tried all the settings in vd. my use case is specifically sim racing so basically if it's running my sims well airlink for normal games is always absolutely flawless and visually stunning. this is not the case with vd, wireless or wired i get the same stuttering and it's at 140% on the gpu for way less visual fidelity, i rarely hit 60% on the gpu with airlink/link. that being said update v72 pcvr has caused millions of error files to be written on the c drive and a decoupling of app selected hz and in game framerate which causes a horizontal screen tear when moving left or right. so currently i cannot simrace in vr.
Beat Saber isn't a very demanding game, so why not play it directly on the headset without linking to PC?
A bad router might be the problem
Virtual desktop, hands down.
What I find the most surprising about VR is simply how good it is and how small its adoption is. There are still people confidently saying VR is a gimmick but have never tried it. I would say, since the very first iteration of modern VR with dk1 and vive, VR has been an abolute game changer for certain genres of games.
I genuinely think the slow adoption has been due to the 'core' gamers, being physically inactive old sloths, too resistant to change. On the other hand, I've observed kids being quick to adapt to the medium (my unfortunate experience on multiplayer VR has been 90% kids)
I feel quite confident its more of a generational inertia than actual motion sickness issues. I have motion sickness in cars but never in VR, apart from the first hour or so back in 2020. Its like how my dad could never adapt to thumbsticks on game controllers
I agree, my "gamer" work colleagues glaze over when I bleat about it's many merits but they've never even tried it lol. I think it's in a good position now and as much as I hate all the little kids, they're gonna look back at their Quest 3's like we look back at our ps1's etc.
As they get older, they will be the ones creating the software and playing the games. The situation is definitely going to improve in the coming years!
@@gabepvpz 100%! Even though they can be annoying, I'm kinda jealous of these kids as the vr/ar they'll experience one day will be what we deamt of. I guess we have to be grateful of all the changes we've already seen and feel lucky we even have such things as Quest 3's now!
VD is the way. Just get the version on the Meta store, not Steam (it's not for Quest HMDs). Also don't turn up bitrate too high, the headset can get choked by it.
Airlink works poorly on Q3 compared to Q2 for some reason. (or did in mid 2024). Steam's tool is mid, but at least free.
The users problem is that their not using Virtual Desktop.
For VR, VD is great but for streaming your desktop / 2d games it sucks - immersed is much better!