Longevity is always a knock on LeBron while Brady is praised for it. Complete double standard. Not LeBron's fault Jordan retired twice or that Bron was good enough right out of high school
come on you know that not the same. lebron got a losing record in the finals unlike brady. and lebron hasn't surpassed jordan in rings while brady surpassed montana in rings. stop being dumb
That’s just a DUMB topic Of course it’s a longevity award It’s 38,000 point. There are only 82 games in a season So unless you score 4000 points a game IT LITERALLY WILL TAKE YEARS
MJ still holds a better record than all of them in the finals. And yeah they had the better team than Michael y'all know the story when he finally understood bball was a team game... you saw the numbers.
Skip knows for a fact if KD keeps playing how he is today up until he's 38 that'll be impressive asf and he'll call KD the baby goat behind MJ but he somehow holds it against Bron for sustaining greatness for 19 years straight.
Yah yah yah, let it go- MJ is & always will be the G.O.A.T. wthout question...wth LBJ on the othr hand u gotta question almost evryrhing, but MJ is a sure thing HANDS DWN!! & im not an MJ fan. 4r
You know, I know, and Skip knows that KD will never be the goat. He could win the next four years in BKYN and he wouldn’t catch 23. He’d be better than Bron, though
funny thing is it wasn’t just because of MJ, pretty much half the players on the dream team didn’t like Isiah or had some type of beef with him. That’s the main reason why he was left off
I don't even know why people still expect him to have a good argument he's been a troll for years what makes y'all think he's ever gonna stop trolling?
Everything he says in the video is true. Have you ever heard anyone say Lebron isn’t a good scorer? Even Skip has never said that. It is a longevity award obviously. You can’t make the Brady comparison because no one looks at Bradys totals stats as the reason he’s the goat they look at his rings. MJ is obviously a better scorer than Lebron. Just like Lebron is a better passer than MJ.
@@fadelesstrain3770 wrong, pass first means he looks to get his team mates involved first, if it’s not there then he’ll take it, that wasn’t Jordan or Kobe
Okay a longevity stat is averaging 15-20 pts for 20 plus years. LeBron has averaged nearly a triple double his entire career and over 27 ppg consistently. That’s not longevity that’s greatness. People keep knocking lebron for his “longevity” but they praise Kobe (RIP) for being a great scorer and lebron has 3000 more points than him in less seasons. Lebron is also the fastest player in NBA history to reach 20,000 pts. And that was over 10 years ago when he was in Miami.
@@Columbiawarriorsbasketball Bro u realise u saying he came at such a young age is making lebron's case even more significant? and wasnt he still in school at 17
If mj also interested in stat pads like lebron.. he will have many triple double like other greats so? And if mj interested in breaking alltime stats he will never retired twice 🤷♀️
@@thejinx8413 Stat padding you mean like when MJ came back and was counting points for 2 yrs to make sure his career avg stayed at 30 and if lebron was really stat padding he could have averaged a trip dub for his career now say I'm lying 27 7 and 7 so plus 3 more in ast and boards would have been nothing to get if he forced the issue and he retired twice why he said himself he was burned out
How is that more impressive? Imagine being an actor, or any other type of artist or athlete. If I had a 10 year career and won 5 oscars, and you had a 15 year career and only won 3. What’s more impressive? If you were an actor for 5 years longer and still won less Oscars that I did. That’s the exact case with Bron and MJ. Bron has played 5 more seasons, yet still have 2 less rings, 2 less FMVPs, 1 less MVP, 1 less DPOY, 9 less scoring titles, 3 less steal titles, the list goes on… of course, longevity matters and a player should be praised for it, but it isn’t the only thing. What good is your longevity if you still achieved less? Just saying.
@@206legend3 Excuses. I’m 43 yrs old and I know. Jordan shortened his own career, and I’m mad because I’m Bulls fan and I wanted to enjoy him more something that LeBron has given us. He never loved the game, he loved himself.
@@loubensoctave3986 Lebron still made 1000+ more 3pters than Jordan at that point. The 3pt line wasn't encouraged by coaches back then because logically, why would you take that many difficult shots that far from the basket? It's no different that the exact reason why you guys bash Kobe for his FG%.
@@Eric-qv2rz well we all know baseball gets terrible ratings lol focusing on more current events in NBA free agency or the nfl season starting would make more sense. I feel for you on baseball but it’s be a waste of TV time because ratings show people don’t care about baseball, relatively speaking.
im gonna make a bet with myself before continuing the video. skip will say its blasphemy, and IT only said this because he doesnt like Jordan and is jealous of him and still holds a grudge for being snubbed on the dream team.
After Jordan won the first ring IT Never had a sniff at the ring again. Let’s be honest was Kareem ever a GOAT while he had that scoring record. NO HE WASNT. So what makes u think james will.
The fact that Kareem scored 38,000+ points with only one made 3 pointer in his career his INCREDIBLE in its own right. Crazy to think LeBron of all ppl will pass him.
Karl Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and LeBron James, have three scoring titles combined in their careers, and they’re the top three scorers ever…..wild to think.
Kareem is the greatest winner of ALL TIME so it's not uncommon for him to get much without scoring 3s. 5 greats are on a complete different dimension that only belongs to them entirely. MJ , LBJ, Wilt, late Bill Russell and Kareem
IKR, skip is terrible at debating. I think he's just too old at this point to think quickly on his feet to respond to Shannon's bs. So he resorts to reciting the same facts.
@@jordanhutton5787 yes Jordan lost he also lost against the Magic when he came back from playing baseball but once he got to the finals he never lost two three peats. There's only been one other three peat and that one was Kobe with Shaq so what are you guys talking about again a whole bunch of craziness that's what you're talking about. No one cares about playoffs lost or appearances unless your trying to be called the goat
@@insidejah9293 I think you should be disqualified due to inability to understand what's going on. I'm talking about direct hate and jealousy Isiah Thomas has towards Michael Jordan. So obviously, he's going to badmouth Jordan whenever possible while pretending not to and never would admit that he's the GOAT.
The top 3 scorers played atleast 20 seasons pretty simple. Don’t matter if you’re considered a score first player if you play 20 years control the offense and ball you’ll score
Can you name those 3 for the classroom please and how much they averaged for their career? Ain't Haslem playing his 20 something season this year and he ain't no where close. Stop hating
@@maricioboler5872 Clean your kneepads off so sensitive🤣 Kareem Bron Malone all played atleast 20 and are alltime greats that’s the point I wasn’t saying all players that play 20 years will break records
@@maricioboler5872 Didn't LeBron start in the league@18 & the great MJ@22? He already had a jumpstart on him, Lebron's legacy is his durability & longevity......the great MJ was just DOMINANCE! 6RINGZ!!!!!!
GOAT debate is subjective, because it will depend on which criteria you value. If it's championships, Bill Russell. If it's individual stats, guys like Wilt and MJ come to mind. If it's sustained greatness, LeBron and Kareem. And anyone saying there is no GOAT debate is already participating in it 🤔
It is 100% not subjective. We all know MJ is clearly number 1. Stop this BS. Facts aren't subjective. Two three peats, 6 finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 time all defense. No, it ain't subjective bub.
@@actormertsirin at this point, yes it’s absolutely subjective. For multiple reasons. A, based on what someone’s criteria is, B, likely depending on when you grew up and who you grew up watching, C, the fact that people magically put criteria on LeBron that never mattered before. The facts are there are people who love Mike, and there are people who love LeBron. There’s nothing wrong with either. But the criteria you’re basing your stance on matters.
Interesting. Kobe is 1st all time at SG for assists, and he never shook his gunner label, nor did he ever get props for how good of a passer he was. That's just how it goes with "narratives" and bs.
@@Sakamoshi Must've been a lot of quadruple teams. More than Wade, MJ, Harden, Hornacek, Carter, Iverson and McGrady ever saw huh? The point though, is that Kobe has that stigma from people like you, when reality says something else, similar to LeBron scoring.
@@rell_5000 point is who cares. He's nowhere near the top 10. I was embellishing obviously, but he wasn't a great passer. Lebron is. And LeAssister played the 3/4 position most of his career. Everyone else in the TOP 30 are PGs. Useless info in an ice cold take. 🥶
Only thing I disagree with Shannon is when he says nobody is as good as Lebron in year 17, 18 and 19. Kareem and Michael played 3 years of college so they were both 3 years older than Lebron in those years! If you want to compare Kobe with Lebron in those late years ok that makes sense since they both went pro out of high-school at 18 years old. The real king of longevity is Vince Carter he played 22 nba seasons after going to college for 3 years. If he went pro after high-school he would of played 25 nba seasons wow 👏
MJ is my #1 GOAT but Shannon made some good points here that I guess I didn't think about. My pick is mainly based off of the eye test so stats don't really matter to me but when you actually value longevity instead of just their "prime", it does make me appreciate Bron more. It seems obvious but I always just compared their primes.
longevity is just the icing on the cake. Bron has the PPG to back it up, he's been at the top of the league in scoring average since day 1. *PLUS* only Wilt has a better career shooting percentage. So not only is LeBron on the brink of being the All-time scorer in pure volume, he's right up there nearly identical to KD in PPG, AND he's literally the 2nd most efficient scorer of all-time. That's literally the entire trifecta, but he's not a great scorer?!?! People are right, he's not A great scorer, he's THE greatest scorer, as far as combined longevity, volume, average AND efficiency. Case closed.
@@Thomas998822 relax bro. Kareem wasn’t a great scorer but he had an unstoppable move. Being a scorer is a lot deeper then laying up the ball for 80% of your career.
@@endangeredspecies8441 very true... that's exactly why I said being the greatest scorer is about volume, average, consistency, longevity and efficiency. LeBron is goat status in all of that. And let's be clear only 38% of LeBron career pts have come in the paint. NOT 80%, but point taken. To, me it wouldn't matter if 100% of his points were dunks. Scoring, TO ME , is about putting the ball in the basket and putting points on the board. Feel free to do you. If the greatest scorer, to you, is who had the purest jump shot, deepest arsenal, or best ball-handling and lay-up package...cool. Lebron is on the brink of pointing the ball in the basket more than anyone ever. Did it for longer. Did more consistently than anyone besides maybe Kareem. Had a higher average than most everyone, and did it more efficiently than everyone besides Wilt. Those are FACTS bro....those. are. Facts... That's GOAT! IDGAF!
And you’re here commenting on the video, thus giving them more interaction which will factor into this continuing as a topic. If you don’t like it then just shut up. The irony of y’all commenting complaints like this is insane to me. It’s counterproductive to the point you’re trying to make lol😂
@@drsmango the topic isn't going to change because they're not good at changing it up. It has nothing to do with people commenting lol, that's boomer naivety.
@@northphillybul8577 he retired because he couldn't handle the nba....he wanted a break, he said it...lebron went to 3 straight finals fool, with 2 different teams. Imagine if lebron had pippin and Rodman in their prime for 5 to 6 years. Btw if snake a$$ kd wouldn't made the join warriors he would easily have 5 or 6. Also I don't ever seeing any othet player in history carrying the 2007 or 2018 cavs to the finals
That's cause there's nothing else to say....MJ is the GOAT. It's a silly argument anyways, just like it was silly when we were comparing Kobe to Jordan. When the dust settles he'll be ranked somewhere between 2 - 10 but he'll never be ranked above MJ by the vast majority. You can't lose that many finals and still compare him to a guy that went undefeated. It's a losing battle.....
Longevity and physical advantage are Lebron's strengths and talents. They should be adding points to his greatness not minus. It's like i can say MJ had shooting advantage over Lebron.
@@mrpearson1230 lebron is almost perfect. if he wasn't a social justice hypocrite, he'd be the greatest athlete/celebrity of all time. even so, he might still be
Isiah has said Jordan is the goat, then he said it was Kareem, even though Kareem hasn't played a game 30plus years and now it's LeBron so whatever Isiah says has to be taken with a grain of salt.
Until both players play under the exact same conditions (Same exact opponents, teammates, and rules) then any comparison is nonsense. After watching basketball for nearly 30 years, I can say the best basketball I'm seeing is right now. The competition has never been better. The pace of the game has never been faster. The level of athleticism is unmatched. With all due respect to Jordan, but if he had to get guarded by these guys today under zone defense... There's no way he's ISO'ing his way to as many fadeaways as he did in his career. Like absolutely no way teams today let that happen under zone defense play.
He does but not because Skip has a losing hand, he's just not built for these debates. If you listen to some of the stupid/irrelevant arguments Shannon makes before replying they can be slapped down rather easily. Skip is generally terrible in making arguments which allows Sharpe to get away with his half truths and phony arguments.
LeBron is great and certainly wins the longevity argument, but Jordan's peak was higher and lasted longer than any player in NBA history including LeBron, Kareem, Russell or any other superstar. Jordan won 10 scoring titles and led the league in Field Goals 10 times, and Win Shares, VORP and Box Plus Minus 9 times. 5 MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs and a Defensive Player of the Year award.
This is no debate. Michael Jordan will go down as the GOAT Forever. He is known world wide as the GOAT. 6 titles. Put them together in any room and events. Around NBA Players and you will see who they regard as the GOAT.
The GOAT Conversation will majority's most of the time will involve basketball or football. Tom Brady/Michael Jordan. That not putting down the others GOAT in other sports
@@ronniealexander4842 now ask yourself why basketball and football only?... There are a billions sports out there and you speak of goat in only basketball and football?... The answer is there in black and white for you to see, not just for look, watch or read only... Think as well
skip and Shannon are forgetting that there are 33% more possessions in a game in this era than an MJ’s. That’s 33% more chances at rebounds assists and points
Yea but there’s only one basketball which means that 33% is shared by 9 other players on the court per game so that doesn’t mean lebron has 33% more of a chance you have to divide that by 9 for the other 9 players on the court with lebron and then factor in minutes in a game and other things so that 33% ain’t really that much of advantage …the 3 pointer is main difference between Kareem and Lebron and mj that’s it
Then why doesn’t Kobe have the accolades LeBron has??? KG played 21 seasons, Vince played 22 seasons, Tim Duncan played 20, you hold their accomplishments against them??? They don’t have the stats Bron does either, moot points.
Petty? Yeah he is, BUT, since Jordan kept him off the Olympic team, I'd be petty also. Not to mention, Jordan himself was, is and forever will be notoriously petty himself
@@sonytoor542 ok but there's being petty then there is just being a flat out dunce he knows damn well this conversation is media driven. No NBA GM ever in their right mind would take Lebron over MJ
The arguments from Skip are just getting more ridiculous as LBJ is getting closer to break Kareem’s record. Anything to discredit him before his accomplishment.
I can tell he’s getting tired of going at LeBron but that’s what he gets paid to do, take on all the narratives that go against LeBron. But ain’t no way I’m taking LBJ over MJ.
Funny how people will say "Players say Kobe is better so he's better." But then when Isiah Thomas or other legends or players crown Lebron as the G.O.A.T all of a sudden they hate or dont know what they're talking about.
Nobody's crowning Lebron only Jordan hater(s). They said Kobe surpassed MJ now LeBron tomorrow might be Giannis or Curry and NBA is making a lot of money. Difference between MJ others remains he'll be compared to the best player (s) of every era.
@@afambasil753 You're missing the point. I'm not crowning neither Lebron nor MJ the GOAT(I dont think there is one). Yes there's clearly an upper echelon of players but to say one is better than the other is blasphemous. Anyways my point was people will always bring up player opinions to boost their favorite players case in the G.O.A.T debate. Its more prevalent with Jordan and Kobe stans than it is with Lebron stans thats how I see it. Yet if players like Isiah Thomas, J.J Reddick, John Stockton, Etc. were to dare say something that Jordan and Kobe stans dont agree with. They either say they're jealous of MJ or they're dumb. Just callin out the hypocrisy thats all
@@hiphophead4891 It sounds like you're a biased Lebron d rider. Your OG comment doesn't even make sense. So when people make a case for Kobe or MJ they make little effort and people accept it but when people say LBJ is the goat people discredit them. Really? Why, because you saw it happen in one video?
if I had watched basketball for the first time and compared MJ and Lebron's game I would say you're delusional for saying that.. nothing in LeFraud's game is impressive LOL
LeBron is not a "passer" he is a floor general. it's mot about him passing to an open man, it's him running plays within plays so that even when he doesn't have the ball he's still in control. Ofcourse he still makes mistakes. P.S MJ is to me the most impressive display of a basketball player I've ever seen.
The last time LeBron "officially" played Point Guard position, he led league in assists AND won an NBA championship with Finals MVP. But he's not a passer???? SMH...haters are gonna hate!
@@1Scital1 actually the funny thing is that you are assuming that I think in black & white terms! LeBron is literally "All of the Above"...scorer, passer, rebounder, blocker, dunker, logo three maker, turnaround jumper maker, coach, leader, GM, ...you name it he does it.... That's what makes these haters so mad! There's been no basketball player that has displayed this kind of talent, skill and IQ in that many categories AND for 19-20 seasons. Hater's gonna hate.
Shannon looks so bad in this debate. MJ got his respect against his competitors. The Jordan rules were created because no one could defend him one on one. Lebron flops and cramps in the biggest stage while MJ destroys the competition.
Let’s not pretend that having a midrange or variety of ways to score doesn’t set you apart. Shaq didn’t have a mid range pull up game either. And that’s exactly why Kobe went one on one in a lot of late game situations.
So pretty much according to skip, shame on lebron for being born right handed and becoming ambidextrous, shame on him for being taller and stronger. Shame on him for being in the league so damn long (all while scoring 25 ppg+ every year but his rookie campaign) that the game changed and became 3 pt dominant). Its more impressive he’s continued to adapt
Skip was only refuting another stupid narrative that the most ball dominant player in nba history (Lebron has never wanted to play in a system that didn't revolve around him) isn't considered a scorer. People like Isiah Thomas only make such irrelevant and un-provable arguments to some how make his longevity stats somehow more meaningful.
@@dnice4145 in skips own words though he’s the best passer of the basketball ever, why shouldn’t he have the ball in his hands then. It’s not like he isn’t efficient considering he’s more efficient than MJ (passed him in points with less shot attempts) , and KD
@@dnice4145 Bro y'all have to stop with these BS narratives that y'all create. Please Show proof that anyone who has ever coached or played with LeBron said that he has "never wanted to play in a system that didn't revolve around him"... That statement in itself is not only false but could mean different things. For example. Please tell me what system had MJ ever played in that didn't revolve around him? Don't worry, you don't have to answer that question because there has never been one. Coaches had put the ball in Brons hands early on because of his facilitator ability, basketball IQ and his willingness to make the right play. Y'all talk out both sides of your mouths. In the beginning it was "Bron is too unselfish and needs to take be more like MJ/Kobe" then now y'all trying to push this "Bron is selfish" and "it's all about him" narrative. Lol... Y'all don't know what y'all want. Lol. The standard that LBJ is held to and the fact that he's exceeds those standards is what makes him the GOAT to me. MJ isn't even held to the same standard and that should tell you everything you need to know.
Facts MJ in the late 80's put up monster numbers in the 90's the bulls was a complete team in everybody played there roll MJ numbers dropped for more team success in winning
@@jv-heavyzeo8588 dude stop, more skilled sure but weaker, because it's more kids he is playing against. it's one & done kids that are asked to be the franchise players & can't handle it in today's game. that's why Charles Barkley made a good suggestion most of these kids should stay in school for at least three years because it's hurting the brand. y'all like to use the more skilled bs 💩because it's a more three point based game & wide open where they didn't worry about that in Michaels time plus handles but that is a more focus coming out of college today but that doesn't mean they know how to play the game, which makes it more weaker
First of all Jordan went to college instead of the NBA like LeBron did. When most people go shopping for shoe's they get Jordan's. Isiah has always had a problem with Jordan. Look at how the Pistons walked off the court when they lost in the Eastern Conference Finals without shaking hands. That was all Isiah's doing. Jordan is the Goat!
20 years, 4 rings, 4 MVPs vs 15 years, 6 rings. 6 MVPs. Dunno about you, but someone is more prolific and efficient at being a winner. Consider LeBron is 6' 9" 260 lbs. Jordan was 6' 6" 200 lbs. Who is more difficult to stop physically, and therefore who is more likely to have an easier go at the basket? Ergo, who would be perceived as easier to defend? And yet, one of them has 10 scoring titles and 9 All-NBA defensive team awards. Who is that superstar?
Malone scored more than MJ but never won a championship against the Bulls that doesn’t help Bron argument as the best he lost to many finals when it mattered MJ won more championships and has more accolades than Bron will ever achieve in 13 years stop comparing
Tell me one of Jordans opponents that he met in the final thats able to beat the 2017 & 2018 warriors with kd steph klay & draymond or the spurs team with duncan, manu, tony (kawhi)
@@lifeofibo exactly . These boys stay tryna act like Jordan peanut headass was really better than LBJ. Stop comparing . If LBJ was in the league back then he would’ve smashed them all no cap
@@lifeofibo Klay and Draymond not in the top 30 players since going to the playoffs in 2015 lol that fact let’s me know everybody has won against Bron it’s 2011 all over again you man crushing state facts
LeBron switched teams 100 times because he couldn’t win where he was. Jordan 6 rings with one team, undefeated in the finals, and has the all-time highest scoring average in nba history. 9-time all defense to LeBron’s how many ? I think 6 or something. 6 finals MVPs. Jordan is just better than LeBron. Y’all voting with y’all hearts.
@@jaust9077 Yeah. Magic was a point guard. Everyone in the top 10 is a guard except LeBron at 7. The next none guard on the list is Scottie Pippen at 35.
Majority? I want to start with off with this comment is coming from a Mavs fan whos favorite player is Kobe and thinks it's Kareem, MJ and Lebron in order for GOAT. Alright now - His first 7 years in Cleveland, Mo Williams was his 2nd best player, he took a group of YMCA rec dudes to the finals. He was in Miami for what, 4 years? 2 of those D-Wade was low key washed and Bosh was a corner three shooter really, a 38 year old Ray Allen for a season? The rest of the team were min contract players. So I'll give you 2 years with best of the best. He then went back to Cleveland and played with Kyrie who was only available for the playoffs the year they won and KLove who was just white Chris Bosh. So only 1 maybe 2 years counts. Now he's with the Lakers, 1st year were all young players. 2nd year they get AD and win the title in the bubble. Since then it's been all injuries, a disconnected AD and bad roster signings with washed up once upon All Stars like Dwight Howard, Melo and Westbrook. Cmon man. 19 years in the league and he had 5-6 years max where he's actually had a great team around him.
@@syyner1748 literally go look at his stats in the finals. Wade wasn’t putting up all-star caliber performances in 2013-2014 finals. He played poorly and was clearly showing signs of regression. In 2011-2012 he was still himself but an extra 2-3 years will take an extensive toll on your body when you’re a professional athlete
I grew up watching 80s 90s Bball, nonetheless, every generation will have its assertions, and the next-gen and the next, and we will be still on this page debating with all our hearts on an issue that will never come to terms. Man!! Those two gentlemen are billionaires! For real, what are we getting out of this? I'm still fighting for a dollar 💰 to put in my pocket, just to give my Family 80 cents. End of the day, they going to be still rich...🤔 I mean, "Wealthy," and we will be still debating until someone else rows in the NBA 20yrs. from now. Let's salute all those Brothers & Sisters who are blessed by the Heavenly Father to pick up a ball and do something they love, instead of working 8-12 hrs. a day.
For Jordan, and even Kobe, to score at the level as they did, where most dominant scorers in history are Bigs, is what makes what they did more extraordinary.
Some of you coming into the comments section to see who loves MJ or who loves LeBron but most Journalists and current and former NBA players unanimously say Mike is the GOAT. I'm a Kobe guy but gotta respect those that have been there and done that and they mostly say Mike was that guy. Shannon and Isaiah have their opinion but they're def the minority.
On Defense, last time I played ball. I never averaged any points playing defense. Basketball is a game of many necessary skills. Michael had them all! Not to mention Michael NEVER lost in the NBA finals.
You’re right he never lost in finals but he definitely got swept in the playoffs. Also only making it to 6 is something to consider. Tbh to me there’s room at the mountain top for both of them🤷♂️
@@weekndatbernies8428 Thank there is at least a small chance he makes it to two more if he doesnt take prime years off? Possibly 8 championships in a row? I like lebron. I guess I just enjoy Kobe and Michaels unwillingness to give an opposing player anything or take defensive plays off.
@@weekndatbernies8428 Was not my point. I watched him play his entire career. It is not close! I played ball for 14 years until the competition said, you are not good enough anymore. My experience and eyes do not lie.
@@uncleb3545 bruh I live in Mexico I ask most adults if they know Jordan they say yeah but I ask about Lebron they know but can’t really point him out if showed them a picture of three different NBA players
Although Bill and Wilt would be MUCH higher, Jordan would still be #1. For instance, even if Bill made 1st All-Def 13 out of 13 years and won 11 out of 11 NBA Finals MVPs, he would have had 43 points. Most historians believe he would've won 6 Finals MVPs
i love watching the lebron vs mj debate change year by year. its obvious how nervous skip gets when every year lebron adds new achievements that are just cementing his spot as the 🐐
Shay says Stockton wasn’t top 5 even though he’s all time leader in assists and steals but LeBrick is GOAT because he is all time leader in points… double standard MJ the GOAT
Taking more shots is fine, PPG is what matter. MJ has lead the league in scoring 10x, 8 of those times he had 30 or more ppg. LBJ has lead in scoring once, and got 30 ppg less than 3x lol.
Isaiah Thomas be speaking straight facts but instead of the focus being on what he says they immediately bash him because you don't suppose to say anything praising lebron James over Jordan. Jordan never beat 1 dynasty team in his whole career, lebron has faced dynasty teams in the finals 90% of of the time lol 🤷🏽♂️ Jordan played on the ONLY big 3 team in the league in the 90s every other team had 1 allstar and 4 plumbers 😂 lebron James is the GOAT 🐐 clearly
It's crazy how Skip constantly tried to downplay LeBron becoming the all-time leading scorer as a longevity thing, and now he calls LeBron the greatest scorer in NBA history!👑🤣
Everybody knows that Isaiah is one "The All-Time Greatest Haters" I don't take anything he say as facts. He still salty about not playing on the 92 Olympic team and that he got swept 4-0 in the Eastern Conference Finals by the 🐐 after coming off back to back titles so anything Isaiah say is laughable
jordans best teammate was charles oakley from 85 to 87. Broke his foot in 86, missed 60+ games n sneaked into playoffs. 63 on boston n got swept in 3. Pippen n grant got drafted in 87 draft, but they were projects. Took few yrs to improve n jordan bulked up so he can take on the pistons. During this time, all the good teams in the east had multiple allstars. However, jordan advanced further after every post season loss n eventually got to the 91 finals n the prime years lasted 91 to 98. Once he got to the top, he stayed at top. Defending as the champ yr after yr, is the hardest thing to do. Jordan scored 30000 pts in 13 seasons with bulls, n 3k with wizards. Math isnt hard, especially with a calculator
Jordan took more shots cause they barely called fouls. LeBron flops and gets calls. Jordan was a better defender and Jordan went to college and left in his prime to play professional baseball.
If you don't know anything about the game or if you haven't played any sports then you probably don't know that longevity is part of the talent. Ask Karl Ripken about it . Let's face it , Skip is just a clawn making money everyday just by talking trash about the king .. 🤴 easy money
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يارب أتوسل إليك بحق إسمك الأعضم أن ترزق صاحب اليد التي ستدعــمنـــي با متابعة ورزق لاينتهي وتوفيق لانهاية 💞🕊️...
يارب أتوسل إليك بحق إسمك الأعضم أن ترزق صاحب اليد التي ستدعــمنـــي با متابعة ورزق لاينتهي وتوفيق لانهاية 💞🕊️...
Zeke continues throwing stones at MJ, this is a real rivalry folks.
Goat bronze medalist,Lebronze 🥉🥉🤣🤣
75
Longevity is always a knock on LeBron while Brady is praised for it. Complete double standard. Not LeBron's fault Jordan retired twice or that Bron was good enough right out of high school
Good points
come on you know that not the same. lebron got a losing record in the finals unlike brady. and lebron hasn't surpassed jordan in rings while brady surpassed montana in rings. stop being dumb
Longevity with less achievements. Try again
@@afambasil753 replace the jazz or another team like that with the kd warriors and Jordan woulda retired a third time lol
@@afambasil753 - Actually Lebron has more achievements. Jordan sycophants just disregard every achievement that Jordan wasn't the best at.
Skip forgets the all time scoring record is a longevity award within itself. Kareem played 20 seasons himself.
Exactly
That’s just a DUMB topic
Of course it’s a longevity award
It’s 38,000 point.
There are only 82 games in a season
So unless you score 4000 points a game
IT LITERALLY WILL TAKE YEARS
And Kareem got it the way Skip talks about LeBron getting it where he makes it seem like lebron fell off and is scoring 10ppg trying to get the record
@@michaeltorres3543 Kareem didn’t “fall off”, he was fricking 41! Let’s see Lebron at 41 first.
Skip don't understand LeBron make it look easy finishing at the rim. It's not athletism that's putting the ball threw the net.
It’s crazy to know that people think it’s easy to average 27ppg in the NBA over the course of 19 seasons.
I mean in an era where defense has become non existent, it’s not hard to imagine a great player like Lebron average that much
Scoring is by far the best thing Lebron does.
@@robbier3785 lebron played half his career in the 00’s they didn’t play defense then either?
@@GentlemensInsanity no because they removed hand checking and sent players the the free throw a lot like they do today
@@i_chosen_one_ips432 lebron came into the league where they were still playing tough defense
“Isaiah had two plates!!!!! Magic was at the buffet”😂😂😂 I love Shannon
We needed a guy like Shannon he always reminds the old heads the stuff they don’t mention when Jordan gets brought up.
Shannon ate on Hater in this one. I will concede that Zeke has bias though, but it is still conceivable that his opinion is valid.
@@maccrew612 agreed
MJ still holds a better record than all of them in the finals. And yeah they had the better team than Michael y'all know the story when he finally understood bball was a team game... you saw the numbers.
It must’ve been like the last supper on lebron watch then. Everybody ate more. That same argument works against lebron as well.
Skip knows for a fact if KD keeps playing how he is today up until he's 38 that'll be impressive asf and he'll call KD the baby goat behind MJ but he somehow holds it against Bron for sustaining greatness for 19 years straight.
They all great af
Yah yah yah, let it go- MJ is & always will be the G.O.A.T. wthout question...wth LBJ on the othr hand u gotta question almost evryrhing, but MJ is a sure thing HANDS DWN!! & im not an MJ fan. 4r
It’s the only narrative he can create at this point, other than his finals record.
Truth
You know, I know, and Skip knows that KD will never be the goat. He could win the next four years in BKYN and he wouldn’t catch 23. He’d be better than Bron, though
Isaiah still mad at MJ for that 92' Dream Team snub 😂
funny thing is it wasn’t just because of MJ, pretty much half the players on the dream team didn’t like Isiah or had some type of beef with him. That’s the main reason why he was left off
Facts 😆
@@siriusblack4591 but mj is better than lebron clearly come on now
📠
shiddd I would be too.
I don't even know why people still expect him to have a good argument he's been a troll for years what makes y'all think he's ever gonna stop trolling?
Yeah his arguments remind me of how trump talks
@@Flowerz__ check your gas prices and all other prices and look at the condition of the world and then repent
Jordan being better is just a fact you casual.
Everything he says in the video is true. Have you ever heard anyone say Lebron isn’t a good scorer? Even Skip has never said that. It is a longevity award obviously. You can’t make the Brady comparison because no one looks at Bradys totals stats as the reason he’s the goat they look at his rings. MJ is obviously a better scorer than Lebron. Just like Lebron is a better passer than MJ.
@@1n_motion that’s comical to say
Pretty sure I have heard Skip on many occasions saying that LeBron was a pass 1st player and criticized Bron for not being a score 1st player 🤨
Fact’s!
this old man so delusional literally obsessed with LeBron
I read no lies. He actually criticises Lebron for making the right play and not "shooting" the ball.
He said when the is on the line
Yeah in clutch moments.
The fact that Michael was able to keep Isaiah off the Dream Team shows how much control he had….he took food off that man plate
The biggest misconception is that Lebron is pass first LOL
Exactly he career fga is 19.8 more than Kobe who’s considered a ball hog lol
@@fadelesstrain3770 Thats primarily because of Kobe's younger years where he was a bench player.
@@xenesa8114 they always put numbers with no context. LeBron has also been better for a longer period of time so his averages will be higher
@@fadelesstrain3770 More FGA per game than KD too but dont let the bron nuthuggers hear that
@@fadelesstrain3770 wrong, pass first means he looks to get his team mates involved first, if it’s not there then he’ll take it, that wasn’t Jordan or Kobe
Isiah did say mike was the goat numerous times especially when he used to commentate during those nba nbc games in the 90s
Yeah he's an idiot
He just saying what the media heads wanted to hear. He always had Kareem as number 1 for the longest.
Lebron didn't play in the 90s
@@KayBeen ugh its 2022 the general consensus is still michael jordan is the greatest of all time.
@@phenom5075 you have a point. But if anyone mostly older players say LeBron is better there is backlash or that person has an agenda against Jordan.
I spit out my drink when Skip said Lebron was a “shoot 1st” guy 😂almost sounded like Pierce calling Steph a “Wing guy” 😂😂
Well Lebron is a good passer but he's more of a scorer. Steph is a PG but plays like a SG so it's understandable why Steph is called a wing.
@@syzorst and if It’s clouds in the sky Issa chance for rain 😂 stop it please don’t continue with this argument
Lebron is a scorer, you cant average 27 ppg and not be a score first player.
@@bbginc694 I feel like you argue with yo eyes close Lebron is NOT a score 1st player Lebron is Lebron he can do EVERYTHING at a high level
Okay a longevity stat is averaging 15-20 pts for 20 plus years. LeBron has averaged nearly a triple double his entire career and over 27 ppg consistently. That’s not longevity that’s greatness. People keep knocking lebron for his “longevity” but they praise Kobe (RIP) for being a great scorer and lebron has 3000 more points than him in less seasons. Lebron is also the fastest player in NBA history to reach 20,000 pts. And that was over 10 years ago when he was in Miami.
Broke that down beautifully bro 🔥🔥🔥🔥
He also had an advantage of playing at 17. Had less injuries than Kobe. Played more games than Kobe. Does he have all time leading ppg?
LeBron wasn’t the fastest Wilt was the fastest, he was the youngest
@@Columbiawarriorsbasketball they both came in the same age. His fault Kobe got hurt. Yet he averages more than Kobe.
@@Columbiawarriorsbasketball Bro u realise u saying he came at such a young age is making lebron's case even more significant? and wasnt he still in school at 17
Magic had 5 chips and 9 finals in 11 seasons
I have been saying that for years if LeBron was only interested in scoring he would of eclipse that scoring tile longtime ago .
Right
Facts and a half
If mj also interested in stat pads like lebron.. he will have many triple double like other greats so? And if mj interested in breaking alltime stats he will never retired twice 🤷♀️
@@thejinx8413 Stat padding you mean like when MJ came back and was counting points for 2 yrs to make sure his career avg stayed at 30 and if lebron was really stat padding he could have averaged a trip dub for his career now say I'm lying 27 7 and 7 so plus 3 more in ast and boards would have been nothing to get if he forced the issue and he retired twice why he said himself he was burned out
That's cap
I don't understand how people say " well LeBron played more seasons!"
That's not an argument to me. That actually MORE IMPRESSIVE LMAO.
If u knew why Jordan stopped playing you’d understand..
How is that more impressive? Imagine being an actor, or any other type of artist or athlete. If I had a 10 year career and won 5 oscars, and you had a 15 year career and only won 3. What’s more impressive? If you were an actor for 5 years longer and still won less Oscars that I did. That’s the exact case with Bron and MJ. Bron has played 5 more seasons, yet still have 2 less rings, 2 less FMVPs, 1 less MVP, 1 less DPOY, 9 less scoring titles, 3 less steal titles, the list goes on… of course, longevity matters and a player should be praised for it, but it isn’t the only thing.
What good is your longevity if you still achieved less? Just saying.
Jordan accomplish more in less years
@@206legend3 Excuses. I’m 43 yrs old and I know. Jordan shortened his own career, and I’m mad because I’m Bulls fan and I wanted to enjoy him more something that LeBron has given us. He never loved the game, he loved himself.
So Vince Carter is better than Larry Bird? Vince has more points and played more seasons
Jordan in year 15 and Bron at year 15 Jordan had more points at the end of his career than Bron 😂
And Who took more shots though?
@@loubensoctave3986 Lebron still made 1000+ more 3pters than Jordan at that point.
The 3pt line wasn't encouraged by coaches back then because logically, why would you take that many difficult shots that far from the basket? It's no different that the exact reason why you guys bash Kobe for his FG%.
This feels like the same tired conversation of MJ vs Lebron, throwing in the same tired conversation of IT versus MJ in there as well.
Of course. You have Aaron Judge on the verge of being the Real hone run king and you still talkinf this tired debatel!!
Maybe bc nobody cares about baseball ? Lol
@@Eric-qv2rz well we all know baseball gets terrible ratings lol focusing on more current events in NBA free agency or the nfl season starting would make more sense. I feel for you on baseball but it’s be a waste of TV time because ratings show people don’t care about baseball, relatively speaking.
@@Eric-qv2rz who tf watching baseball bro 😂😂😂😂😂
“Magic was at the buffet” 💀
"Jordan had no competition"
Jordan wasn’t even in the league til 84-85 (Magic won 3 by then ) lol Magic had a Big Mac meal at McDonald’s is more like it 😭
@@donaldmilton49 forreal that's how good he was. Made it look like he had no competition
At the time bron passed Jordan he did it on less shots..yes hes taken more shots than mj now and hes also way higher on the scoring list tf
Way more three's, so there's that.
Who's fault is it that Jordan wasnt a better 3pt shooter? Yall said bron cant shoot also lol cant win for losing
Nmb Memphis beast smh LeBron stat pad meanwhile Jordan won every championship never he cared more about those
Why don’t you count the free throw attempts as well
@@darnellwilliams8783 Jordan only played 6 seasons??
im gonna make a bet with myself before continuing the video. skip will say its blasphemy, and IT only said this because he doesnt like Jordan and is jealous of him and still holds a grudge for being snubbed on the dream team.
Well skip is right
After Jordan won the first ring IT Never had a sniff at the ring again. Let’s be honest was Kareem ever a GOAT while he had that scoring record. NO HE WASNT. So what makes u think james will.
Indeed. Zeke sounds like the girl who wasnt picked. 30+ years ago.
The Isiah hat for Jordan is unbelievable, he knows MJ is the GOAT
The fact that Kareem scored 38,000+ points with only one made 3 pointer in his career his INCREDIBLE in its own right. Crazy to think LeBron of all ppl will pass him.
That's one of the reasons why Kareem is the GOAT.
That sky hook was nasty.
@@grimhunter2223 I don’t know why he isn’t brought up more in that convo. He was pretty much regarded as that until MJ became MJ
Karl Malone, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, and LeBron James, have three scoring titles combined in their careers, and they’re the top three scorers ever…..wild to think.
Kareem is the greatest winner of ALL TIME so it's not uncommon for him to get much without scoring 3s. 5 greats are on a complete different dimension that only belongs to them entirely. MJ , LBJ, Wilt, late Bill Russell and Kareem
For someone who loves MJ so much, Skip has such tired and limited arguments regarding him. Doesn't even counter that the Pistons were not old.
IKR, skip is terrible at debating. I think he's just too old at this point to think quickly on his feet to respond to Shannon's bs. So he resorts to reciting the same facts.
That's because the debate has been over after a while it gets pretty annoying his face so annoyance what are you guys even talking about😂🤷♂️🤦
Same with LeShannon and LBJ.
And the Pistons were back to back champs when the Bulls finally swept them
@@jordanhutton5787 yes Jordan lost he also lost against the Magic when he came back from playing baseball but once he got to the finals he never lost two three peats. There's only been one other three peat and that one was Kobe with Shaq so what are you guys talking about again a whole bunch of craziness that's what you're talking about. No one cares about playoffs lost or appearances unless your trying to be called the goat
Isiah Thomas should be disqualified from commenting on anything to do with Jordan due to bias or jealousy and hate.
Sooooo... Nobody has bias except Isiah Thomas????
@@insidejah9293 You missed hate and jealousy?
@@ydlee5888 Soo nobody else in the basketball world has bias, hate, jealousy except Isiah Thomas????
@@insidejah9293 I think you should be disqualified due to inability to understand what's going on. I'm talking about direct hate and jealousy Isiah Thomas has towards Michael Jordan. So obviously, he's going to badmouth Jordan whenever possible while pretending not to and never would admit that he's the GOAT.
The top 3 scorers played atleast 20 seasons pretty simple. Don’t matter if you’re considered a score first player if you play 20 years control the offense and ball you’ll score
It’s crazy how you hate him so much that you can’t even give him credit where it’s due🤡😂😂
Can you name those 3 for the classroom please and how much they averaged for their career? Ain't Haslem playing his 20 something season this year and he ain't no where close. Stop hating
@@maricioboler5872 Clean your kneepads off so sensitive🤣 Kareem Bron Malone all played atleast 20 and are alltime greats that’s the point I wasn’t saying all players that play 20 years will break records
@@maricioboler5872 Didn't LeBron start in the league@18 & the great MJ@22? He already had a jumpstart on him, Lebron's legacy is his durability & longevity......the great MJ was just DOMINANCE! 6RINGZ!!!!!!
@@ReverendSam1 why wasn't mj playing when he 18
GOAT debate is subjective, because it will depend on which criteria you value. If it's championships, Bill Russell. If it's individual stats, guys like Wilt and MJ come to mind. If it's sustained greatness, LeBron and Kareem. And anyone saying there is no GOAT debate is already participating in it 🤔
It is 100% not subjective. We all know MJ is clearly number 1. Stop this BS. Facts aren't subjective. Two three peats, 6 finals MVPs, 10 scoring titles, 9 time all defense. No, it ain't subjective bub.
@@actormertsirin at this point, yes it’s absolutely subjective. For multiple reasons. A, based on what someone’s criteria is, B, likely depending on when you grew up and who you grew up watching, C, the fact that people magically put criteria on LeBron that never mattered before. The facts are there are people who love Mike, and there are people who love LeBron. There’s nothing wrong with either. But the criteria you’re basing your stance on matters.
@@actormertsirin You can list bunch of accolades for anyone my guy 😂, doesn't make those the objective criteria. Who would even decide that?
@@actormertsirin im with you bro!
Stop the BS!
MIKE IS GOAT these weird little kids think it’s bron smh
Interesting. Kobe is 1st all time at SG for assists, and he never shook his gunner label, nor did he ever get props for how good of a passer he was. That's just how it goes with "narratives" and bs.
I never knew that! Wow, I appreciate the education
People who actually watch the game know Kobe was passer , people just hate
Kobe only passed when he was quadruple teamed. Lebrons assists are positionless all time stats
@@Sakamoshi Must've been a lot of quadruple teams. More than Wade, MJ, Harden, Hornacek, Carter, Iverson and McGrady ever saw huh? The point though, is that Kobe has that stigma from people like you, when reality says something else, similar to LeBron scoring.
@@rell_5000 point is who cares. He's nowhere near the top 10. I was embellishing obviously, but he wasn't a great passer. Lebron is. And LeAssister played the 3/4 position most of his career. Everyone else in the TOP 30 are PGs. Useless info in an ice cold take. 🥶
LeBron and Kobe average nearly the same amount of field goal attempts per game.
Though LeBron averages more PPG and APG.
damn they only .1 away from each other
If kobe played as passive as bron his numbers would be insane kobe was aggressive asl all the time
Kobe is a great. I would take him over lebron
And Lebron is more efficient
And this is why I find it ridiculous when people say he’s pass first, no pass first player shoots that much
Only thing I disagree with Shannon is when he says nobody is as good as Lebron in year 17, 18 and 19. Kareem and Michael played 3 years of college so they were both 3 years older than Lebron in those years! If you want to compare Kobe with Lebron in those late years ok that makes sense since they both went pro out of high-school at 18 years old. The real king of longevity is Vince Carter he played 22 nba seasons after going to college for 3 years. If he went pro after high-school he would of played 25 nba seasons wow 👏
Those guys weren’t as good as Bron at age 37-38
U realize Vince carter played his last couple of years on the bench lebron has played 20 straight seasons as a starter 🤡
MJ is my #1 GOAT but Shannon made some good points here that I guess I didn't think about.
My pick is mainly based off of the eye test so stats don't really matter to me but when you actually value longevity instead of just their "prime", it does make me appreciate Bron more. It seems obvious but I always just compared their primes.
longevity is just the icing on the cake. Bron has the PPG to back it up, he's been at the top of the league in scoring average since day 1. *PLUS* only Wilt has a better career shooting percentage. So not only is LeBron on the brink of being the All-time scorer in pure volume, he's right up there nearly identical to KD in PPG, AND he's literally the 2nd most efficient scorer of all-time. That's literally the entire trifecta, but he's not a great scorer?!?! People are right, he's not A great scorer, he's THE greatest scorer, as far as combined longevity, volume, average AND efficiency. Case closed.
@@Thomas998822 relax bro. Kareem wasn’t a great scorer but he had an unstoppable move. Being a scorer is a lot deeper then laying up the ball for 80% of your career.
@@endangeredspecies8441 very true... that's exactly why I said being the greatest scorer is about volume, average, consistency, longevity and efficiency. LeBron is goat status in all of that. And let's be clear only 38% of LeBron career pts have come in the paint. NOT 80%, but point taken.
To, me it wouldn't matter if 100% of his points were dunks. Scoring, TO ME , is about putting the ball in the basket and putting points on the board.
Feel free to do you. If the greatest scorer, to you, is who had the purest jump shot, deepest arsenal, or best ball-handling and lay-up package...cool.
Lebron is on the brink of pointing the ball in the basket more than anyone ever. Did it for longer. Did more consistently than anyone besides maybe Kareem. Had a higher average than most everyone, and did it more efficiently than everyone besides Wilt. Those are FACTS bro....those. are. Facts... That's GOAT! IDGAF!
So, LeBron is Shannon's goat and Skip's goat is MJ? That's new
And you’re here commenting on the video, thus giving them more interaction which will factor into this continuing as a topic. If you don’t like it then just shut up. The irony of y’all commenting complaints like this is insane to me. It’s counterproductive to the point you’re trying to make lol😂
Who knew?
😂
@@drsmango the topic isn't going to change because they're not good at changing it up. It has nothing to do with people commenting lol, that's boomer naivety.
@@drsmango bro it don’t matter if we comment on this or not. The topic will be here forever. Have a good day broski! ✌🏾
Michael retired and came back and won three more That’s all I have to say no one will do that in NBA history ever again
That wasn’t no damn retirement
3 straight back to back to back not once but twice !!!! Say it louder for the people in the back
Not a lot of talent in the 90's era. That's all I have to say.
@@SpideyJ239 90's, not just talent better teams and not one sided. Do to over stacking team With superstars.
@@northphillybul8577 he retired because he couldn't handle the nba....he wanted a break, he said it...lebron went to 3 straight finals fool, with 2 different teams. Imagine if lebron had pippin and Rodman in their prime for 5 to 6 years. Btw if snake a$$ kd wouldn't made the join warriors he would easily have 5 or 6. Also I don't ever seeing any othet player in history carrying the 2007 or 2018 cavs to the finals
When has longevity become a bad thing
U know when Shannon won, when Skip start saying “Jordan went 6-0” he got nothing else to say
Shannon can’t win cause MJ is the goat
That's cause there's nothing else to say....MJ is the GOAT. It's a silly argument anyways, just like it was silly when we were comparing Kobe to Jordan. When the dust settles he'll be ranked somewhere between 2 - 10 but he'll never be ranked above MJ by the vast majority. You can't lose that many finals and still compare him to a guy that went undefeated. It's a losing battle.....
So is Bill Russell the best of all time 😭😭😂😂
And its crazy too cuz who was Mj’s hardest compilation in the finals
yea he did
Longevity and physical advantage are Lebron's strengths and talents. They should be adding points to his greatness not minus. It's like i can say MJ had shooting advantage over Lebron.
...and rings, & scoring titles...etc
@@mrpearson1230 lebron is almost perfect. if he wasn't a social justice hypocrite, he'd be the greatest athlete/celebrity of all time. even so, he might still be
@@mrpearson1230 and defense alcolades
@@clipsedrag13 his social activism has nothing to do with how he plays. Get out of your feelings
Prime Jordan was quicker and had a higher vertical than lebron. Lebron is stronger but this is basketball not football.
Isiah has said Jordan is the goat, then he said it was Kareem, even though Kareem hasn't played a game 30plus years and now it's LeBron so whatever Isiah says has to be taken with a grain of salt.
He’s been saying LeBron
Isiah said LeBron years ago and he can change his mind if he likes. The man knows basketball.
Jordan hasn't played 20 years so what's the difference
WHAT ! Are you dumb?! Of course the GOAT status can change as STATS and players change! What are you even talking about?!
Completely agree. IT hates..
This conversation has been run into the ground so much that who truly cares anymore?!?
Right
I agree with you 😂
It’s not bout hating Lebron. It’s just when ppl want to always say he’s better than MJ when he’s just not.
Until both players play under the exact same conditions (Same exact opponents, teammates, and rules) then any comparison is nonsense. After watching basketball for nearly 30 years, I can say the best basketball I'm seeing is right now. The competition has never been better. The pace of the game has never been faster. The level of athleticism is unmatched. With all due respect to Jordan, but if he had to get guarded by these guys today under zone defense... There's no way he's ISO'ing his way to as many fadeaways as he did in his career. Like absolutely no way teams today let that happen under zone defense play.
@@rafa328 yea I call bs
Man y’all don’t get tired of this same conversation 💀
Shannon always destroy Skip Bayless in debates 💯💯
are you a slow person by any chance?
He does but not because Skip has a losing hand, he's just not built for these debates. If you listen to some of the stupid/irrelevant arguments Shannon makes before replying they can be slapped down rather easily. Skip is generally terrible in making arguments which allows Sharpe to get away with his half truths and phony arguments.
@@dukeGed it’s clear that you are if you think otherwise
LeBron is great and certainly wins the longevity argument, but Jordan's peak was higher and lasted longer than any player in NBA history including LeBron, Kareem, Russell or any other superstar. Jordan won 10 scoring titles and led the league in Field Goals 10 times, and Win Shares, VORP and Box Plus Minus 9 times. 5 MVPs and 6 Finals MVPs and a Defensive Player of the Year award.
This is no debate. Michael Jordan will go down as the GOAT Forever. He is known world wide as the GOAT.
6 titles. Put them together in any room and events. Around NBA Players and you will see who they regard as the GOAT.
There are others with more NBA titles than Jordan... Let's talk about Goat in ice hockey or even lacrosse
The GOAT Conversation will majority's most of the time will involve basketball or football.
Tom Brady/Michael Jordan. That not putting down the others GOAT in other sports
@@ronniealexander4842 now ask yourself why basketball and football only?... There are a billions sports out there and you speak of goat in only basketball and football?... The answer is there in black and white for you to see, not just for look, watch or read only... Think as well
The conversation is about GOAT of basketball.
@@ronniealexander4842 why goat of basketball or football out of all the millions of sports out there?... Nobody ever called Micheal Phelps goat, why?
skip and Shannon are forgetting that there are 33% more possessions in a game in this era than an MJ’s. That’s 33% more chances at rebounds assists and points
Yup. This is definitely an era of major stat padding.
Yea but there’s only one basketball which means that 33% is shared by 9 other players on the court per game so that doesn’t mean lebron has 33% more of a chance you have to divide that by 9 for the other 9 players on the court with lebron and then factor in minutes in a game and other things so that 33% ain’t really that much of advantage …the 3 pointer is main difference between Kareem and Lebron and mj that’s it
@@senseicharles2856 that 33% is major when the offense is ran thru you and you have the ball 90% of the possessions
Then why doesn’t Kobe have the accolades LeBron has??? KG played 21 seasons, Vince played 22 seasons, Tim Duncan played 20, you hold their accomplishments against them??? They don’t have the stats Bron does either, moot points.
There is not 33% possessions at all the 87 season there was a average of 87.1 FGA per game last season 88.1 look it up
This is getting old if you watched both players play as I did there’s no question that Michael Jordan is the goat 🐐…
Lebron is the 🐐
I watched both of them too Lebron and Magic over jordan
Isiah got forever beef with MJ lmao dude is so petty. LeBron is not on Mike's level.
Petty? Yeah he is, BUT, since Jordan kept him off the Olympic team, I'd be petty also. Not to mention, Jordan himself was, is and forever will be notoriously petty himself
@@sonytoor542 ok but there's being petty then there is just being a flat out dunce he knows damn well this conversation is media driven.
No NBA GM ever in their right mind would take Lebron over MJ
@@n00utz81 true, but my point wasn't about Lebron vs Jordan, it was about Isiah being petty, the reason and Jordan being just as petty.
Isaiah Thomas will never let his MJ beef go bro how long have y'all been retired let it goooo! 🤧😂😂
The arguments from Skip are just getting more ridiculous as LBJ is getting closer to break Kareem’s record. Anything to discredit him before his accomplishment.
The scoring record doesnt put Le3*-6 anywhere near MJ. MJ is the reason GOAT is even an acronym.
@@thinktwice3211 yet he is the one most brings to the conversation. 😆 It just matter of opinion.
I can tell he’s getting tired of going at LeBron but that’s what he gets paid to do, take on all the narratives that go against LeBron. But ain’t no way I’m taking LBJ over MJ.
Jordan played 3 years for NC, won college championship & won USA gold medal before going to NBA enough said Jordan is the GOAT
Funny how people will say "Players say Kobe is better so he's better." But then when Isiah Thomas or other legends or players crown Lebron as the G.O.A.T all of a sudden they hate or dont know what they're talking about.
I bet you dont even know why IT hates MJ. IT's critique is flawed.
@@thinktwice3211 IT beat him more times than MJ beat him IT is not salty if anyone is its MJ he aired em out on the documentary.
Nobody's crowning Lebron only Jordan hater(s). They said Kobe surpassed MJ now LeBron tomorrow might be Giannis or Curry and NBA is making a lot of money. Difference between MJ others remains he'll be compared to the best player (s) of every era.
@@afambasil753 You're missing the point. I'm not crowning neither Lebron nor MJ the GOAT(I dont think there is one). Yes there's clearly an upper echelon of players but to say one is better than the other is blasphemous. Anyways my point was people will always bring up player opinions to boost their favorite players case in the G.O.A.T debate. Its more prevalent with Jordan and Kobe stans than it is with Lebron stans thats how I see it. Yet if players like Isiah Thomas, J.J Reddick, John Stockton, Etc. were to dare say something that Jordan and Kobe stans dont agree with. They either say they're jealous of MJ or they're dumb. Just callin out the hypocrisy thats all
@@hiphophead4891 It sounds like you're a biased Lebron d rider. Your OG comment doesn't even make sense. So when people make a case for Kobe or MJ they make little effort and people accept it but when people say LBJ is the goat people discredit them. Really? Why, because you saw it happen in one video?
This debate will probably never end 🐐 James the real 🐐 and it ain't even close 😂
lmao keep dreaming kiddo
MJ achieved more than lebron in less years, period, end of story
if I had watched basketball for the first time and compared MJ and Lebron's game I would say you're delusional for saying that.. nothing in LeFraud's game is impressive LOL
@@Sonnel_James Has your balls even dropped yet because you sound like a 10 yr old say it with me G.O.A.T James 🐐 James and it ain't even close 😂🤣
LeBron is not a "passer"
he is a floor general. it's mot about him passing to an open man, it's him running plays within plays so that even when he doesn't have the ball he's still in control. Ofcourse he still makes mistakes.
P.S MJ is to me the most impressive display of a basketball player I've ever seen.
The last time LeBron "officially" played Point Guard position, he led league in assists AND won an NBA championship with Finals MVP. But he's not a passer???? SMH...haters are gonna hate!
that's exactly the reason why nobody can play their game on a Lebron James team
@@insidejah9293 lol, the funny thing is you are actually doing him a disservice calling him a passer.
@@1Scital1 actually the funny thing is that you are assuming that I think in black & white terms! LeBron is literally "All of the Above"...scorer, passer, rebounder, blocker, dunker, logo three maker, turnaround jumper maker, coach, leader, GM, ...you name it he does it.... That's what makes these haters so mad! There's been no basketball player that has displayed this kind of talent, skill and IQ in that many categories AND for 19-20 seasons. Hater's gonna hate.
@@insidejah9293 You literally called him a passer now you are agreeing with me lol. Right.
Shannon looks so bad in this debate. MJ got his respect against his competitors. The Jordan rules were created because no one could defend him one on one. Lebron flops and cramps in the biggest stage while MJ destroys the competition.
Tell them Shannon. You do it so eloquently.
It’s crazy how skip takes the height of Jordan as a weakness but doesn’t for steph them double standards
Let’s not pretend that having a midrange or variety of ways to score doesn’t set you apart. Shaq didn’t have a mid range pull up game either. And that’s exactly why Kobe went one on one in a lot of late game situations.
So pretty much according to skip, shame on lebron for being born right handed and becoming ambidextrous, shame on him for being taller and stronger. Shame on him for being in the league so damn long (all while scoring 25 ppg+ every year but his rookie campaign) that the game changed and became 3 pt dominant). Its more impressive he’s continued to adapt
Skip was only refuting another stupid narrative that the most ball dominant player in nba history (Lebron has never wanted to play in a system that didn't revolve around him) isn't considered a scorer. People like Isiah Thomas only make such irrelevant and un-provable arguments to some how make his longevity stats somehow more meaningful.
Ya exactly
@@dnice4145 in skips own words though he’s the best passer of the basketball ever, why shouldn’t he have the ball in his hands then. It’s not like he isn’t efficient considering he’s more efficient than MJ (passed him in points with less shot attempts) , and KD
@@dnice4145 Bro y'all have to stop with these BS narratives that y'all create. Please Show proof that anyone who has ever coached or played with LeBron said that he has "never wanted to play in a system that didn't revolve around him"... That statement in itself is not only false but could mean different things. For example. Please tell me what system had MJ ever played in that didn't revolve around him? Don't worry, you don't have to answer that question because there has never been one. Coaches had put the ball in Brons hands early on because of his facilitator ability, basketball IQ and his willingness to make the right play. Y'all talk out both sides of your mouths. In the beginning it was "Bron is too unselfish and needs to take be more like MJ/Kobe" then now y'all trying to push this "Bron is selfish" and "it's all about him" narrative. Lol... Y'all don't know what y'all want. Lol. The standard that LBJ is held to and the fact that he's exceeds those standards is what makes him the GOAT to me. MJ isn't even held to the same standard and that should tell you everything you need to know.
Shannon buffet scenarios are killing me 😭🔥💯💯
MJ average 32-8-8 one season. How was he never asked to do everything like LeBron?
Only one season lol 😆
What season was that? Did he win the chip 🏆.
Lebron fans dnt know that much about other basketball players or the game period
Facts MJ in the late 80's put up monster numbers in the 90's the bulls was a complete team in everybody played there roll MJ numbers dropped for more team success in winning
@@manuelrodriguez9972 yes but LeBron only averages 2 more assists and one more rebound pero game for a career.
Skip's amateurish psychoanalysis of every athlete on the planet is always a good laugh.
His expectations are completely unrealistic.
Yet Lebron is passing Kareem at a younger age and less games. If Kareem is humbled by Lebron passing him the world should be.
Shannon won when he said Lebron took less shots to pass Mike than Mike took to get there. 🤭
Different league then when Michael played you really can't compare
@@reidwilson7974 better competition now n more skills it's nothing to fight under the basket
@@jv-heavyzeo8588 dude stop, more skilled sure but weaker, because it's more kids he is playing against. it's one & done kids that are asked to be the franchise players & can't handle it in today's game. that's why Charles Barkley made a good suggestion most of these kids should stay in school for at least three years because it's hurting the brand. y'all like to use the more skilled bs 💩because it's a more three point based game & wide open where they didn't worry about that in Michaels time plus handles but that is a more focus coming out of college today but that doesn't mean they know how to play the game, which makes it more weaker
Jordan took 13 attempts to win 6 rings, and Lebron will NEVER get there.
First of all Jordan went to college instead of the NBA like LeBron did. When most people go shopping for shoe's they get Jordan's. Isiah has always had a problem with Jordan. Look at how the Pistons walked off the court when they lost in the Eastern Conference Finals without shaking hands. That was all Isiah's doing. Jordan is the Goat!
Longevity is a huge part of being a goat. You can't last short and be in the convo.
Yea but what if you’re short but still accomplished more than those who played longer than you?
20 years, 4 rings, 4 MVPs vs 15 years, 6 rings. 6 MVPs.
Dunno about you, but someone is more prolific and efficient at being a winner.
Consider LeBron is 6' 9" 260 lbs. Jordan was 6' 6" 200 lbs.
Who is more difficult to stop physically, and therefore who is more likely to have an easier go at the basket?
Ergo, who would be perceived as easier to defend?
And yet, one of them has 10 scoring titles and 9 All-NBA defensive team awards.
Who is that superstar?
@@stevenguyen8161 teams win chips not players
@@ankeviousoliver4472 Teams are made up of what? Gerbils?
Malone scored more than MJ but never won a championship against the Bulls that doesn’t help Bron argument as the best he lost to many finals when it mattered MJ won more championships and has more accolades than Bron will ever achieve in 13 years stop comparing
Tell me one of Jordans opponents that he met in the final thats able to beat the 2017 & 2018 warriors with kd steph klay & draymond or the spurs team with duncan, manu, tony (kawhi)
@@lifeofibo exactly . These boys stay tryna act like Jordan peanut headass was really better than LBJ. Stop comparing . If LBJ was in the league back then he would’ve smashed them all no cap
@@lifeofibo who did bron face in the playoffs?
@@lifeofibo Klay and Draymond not in the top 30 players since going to the playoffs in 2015 lol that fact let’s me know everybody has won against Bron it’s 2011 all over again you man crushing state facts
You just cant be the goat if you dont/know how to play defense. MJ is the reason GOAT is an acronym.
MJ never even guarded the best players that was Scottie and Rodman, he was mainly asked to only score and guard the teams second or third best player
@@alphamohamedkebe8513 I cant even believe I read your comment twice and thought about it for more than 30 seconds....wow just wow.
@@alphamohamedkebe8513 I'm copying this and making it a comment for all to see.
Lmao skip got wrekt for 12 minutes straight hahahaja
I’m a huge Mike fan but at this point the goat debate is pointless, it’s just who do you prefer more truthfully.
You crazy for saying that. Air Jordan all day.
@@munoken i guess you didn’t get what i said bro💀 I know Mike is the goat but the goat debate is pointless.
LeBron switched teams 100 times because he couldn’t win where he was. Jordan 6 rings with one team, undefeated in the finals, and has the all-time highest scoring average in nba history. 9-time all defense to LeBron’s how many ? I think 6 or something. 6 finals MVPs. Jordan is just better than LeBron. Y’all voting with y’all hearts.
MJ only played 13 full seasons Im going to leave it there….
15*
@@tylerwest3161 11 full season as a bull because he missed 62 games in his 2nd season because of a broken foot then 2 as a wizard.
Facts!!! And Mike scored 32292 pts during that time and 1072 games played. If Mike never retired in 93 or 98 he definitely would've passed Kareem
@@ronaldjackson7541 still played 15 seasons
How tf can skip go back on 18 years of LBJ is not a scorer ?
He's not pass first? Stop it Skip!
Magic was pass first, not
Lebron.
@@jaust9077
Because Magic was, LeBron can't be? 🤔
Either way, LeBron is gonna pass Magic on the all time assist list this year too. 😒
@@efarrar no im distinguishing the two types of players. Lebron averages 7 apg in his career. Magic averaged 11. Its not even close.
@@jaust9077
Yeah. Magic was a point guard.
Everyone in the top 10 is a guard except LeBron at 7. The next none guard on the list is Scottie Pippen at 35.
And the one year he played the point, he averaged 10.2
Playing with da best of the best for majority of his career while avoiding injury sure made it a lot easier
Majority? I want to start with off with this comment is coming from a Mavs fan whos favorite player is Kobe and thinks it's Kareem, MJ and Lebron in order for GOAT. Alright now - His first 7 years in Cleveland, Mo Williams was his 2nd best player, he took a group of YMCA rec dudes to the finals. He was in Miami for what, 4 years? 2 of those D-Wade was low key washed and Bosh was a corner three shooter really, a 38 year old Ray Allen for a season? The rest of the team were min contract players. So I'll give you 2 years with best of the best. He then went back to Cleveland and played with Kyrie who was only available for the playoffs the year they won and KLove who was just white Chris Bosh. So only 1 maybe 2 years counts. Now he's with the Lakers, 1st year were all young players. 2nd year they get AD and win the title in the bubble. Since then it's been all injuries, a disconnected AD and bad roster signings with washed up once upon All Stars like Dwight Howard, Melo and Westbrook. Cmon man. 19 years in the league and he had 5-6 years max where he's actually had a great team around him.
@@justinsmith9832 you lost the argument when you said D Wade was low key washed up. That's a load of bs...
@@syyner1748 literally go look at his stats in the finals. Wade wasn’t putting up all-star caliber performances in 2013-2014 finals. He played poorly and was clearly showing signs of regression. In 2011-2012 he was still himself but an extra 2-3 years will take an extensive toll on your body when you’re a professional athlete
@@syyner1748 that last 2 years was about 60% of the player he was when Lebron got there. He wasn't a top player in the league anymore.
I grew up watching 80s 90s Bball, nonetheless, every generation will have its assertions, and the next-gen and the next, and we will be still on this page debating with all our hearts on an issue that will never come to terms. Man!! Those two gentlemen are billionaires! For real, what are we getting out of this? I'm still fighting for a dollar 💰 to put in my pocket, just to give my Family 80 cents. End of the day, they going to be still rich...🤔 I mean, "Wealthy," and we will be still debating until someone else rows in the NBA 20yrs. from now. Let's salute all those Brothers & Sisters who are blessed by the Heavenly Father to pick up a ball and do something they love, instead of working 8-12 hrs. a day.
For Jordan, and even Kobe, to score at the level as they did, where most dominant scorers in history are Bigs, is what makes what they did more extraordinary.
Extraordinary ball hogs yes 💯%
Some of you coming into the comments section to see who loves MJ or who loves LeBron but most Journalists and current and former NBA players unanimously say Mike is the GOAT. I'm a Kobe guy but gotta respect those that have been there and done that and they mostly say Mike was that guy. Shannon and Isaiah have their opinion but they're def the minority.
Shannon killed skip.
Everybody was eating!!!💯
Air Jordan is the Goat. did you see the nba all time 75 greatest players ceremony? guess who came out last..the goat himself Air Jordan
They said the same thing about Kobe when he was playing
Now days as soon a skip says its my I end the video carry on 🤣🤣🤣✌🏾
On Defense, last time I played ball. I never averaged any points playing defense. Basketball is a game of many necessary skills. Michael had them all! Not to mention Michael NEVER lost in the NBA finals.
You’re right he never lost in finals but he definitely got swept in the playoffs. Also only making it to 6 is something to consider. Tbh to me there’s room at the mountain top for both of them🤷♂️
The usual go to MJ line. Finals win is a TEAM accomplishment. MJ couldn't win without pippin.
@@weekndatbernies8428 Thank there is at least a small chance he makes it to two more if he doesnt take prime years off? Possibly 8 championships in a row? I like lebron. I guess I just enjoy Kobe and Michaels unwillingness to give an opposing player anything or take defensive plays off.
@@ankeviousoliver4472 Did you watch all the Championship series with Michael, and the Bulls?
@@weekndatbernies8428 Was not my point. I watched him play his entire career. It is not close! I played ball for 14 years until the competition said, you are not good enough anymore. My experience and eyes do not lie.
Bro Jordan’s impact on basketball was uncanny … everybody in the world knew him… he is the most iconic and greatest player of all time
Everyone in the world knows James. It is what it is
@@uncleb3545 not like they know Jordan.
@@wealthdiscoveries2641 name a country Lebron James isn’t known.
@@wealthdiscoveries2641 heck. As many people know Kim kardasian as they do Mike today
@@uncleb3545 bruh I live in Mexico I ask most adults if they know Jordan they say yeah but I ask about Lebron they know but can’t really point him out if showed them a picture of three different NBA players
Total Achievements: (Titles / Scoring Titles / MVPs / Finals MVPs /1st All-NBA / 1st All-DEF)
1) Jordan = 46
2) LeBron = 31
3) Kareem = 31
4) Kobe = 30
4) Duncan = 28
6) Wilt = 23
7) Magic = 20
8) Russell = 19
9) Shaq = 18
10) Bird = 17
11) Hakeem = 16
12) Durant = 15
-- Curry only has 13
You know Bill would easily be on the top if those achievements existed during his time. 💀
Although Bill and Wilt would be MUCH higher, Jordan would still be #1. For instance, even if Bill made 1st All-Def 13 out of 13 years and won 11 out of 11 NBA Finals MVPs, he would have had 43 points. Most historians believe he would've won 6 Finals MVPs
Damn is Isiah Thomas STILL bitter at MJ for not making the Dream Team? Lol
Talking bout holding a grudge lol
We all know Jordan the goat it's jus skips arguments be so weak Shannon be winning even tho Shannon knows Jordan the goat
I'd argue they both know LeBron is the GOAT
@@MistahUnknown u trolling rite?
@@MacManDrew Not at all. They're playing a role on a debate show simply to make money.
please consider the source. all I'll say, lol.
Lebron had time off a lot… took my 13 years plus retirement and it’s talking lebron almost 20 yrs to get to this point 🤦♂️
i love watching the lebron vs mj debate change year by year. its obvious how nervous skip gets when every year lebron adds new achievements that are just cementing his spot as the 🐐
Nothing changes at all. MJ is still the GOAT.
Isaiah played against jordan and beat him so him saying lebron is better is not a understatement
Shay says Stockton wasn’t top 5 even though he’s all time leader in assists and steals but LeBrick is GOAT because he is all time leader in points… double standard
MJ the GOAT
Well said. Stockton doesn't get the credit he deserves.
yeah because all time assist is as impressive as being the all time scoring leader hop off basketball its not for you
@@ng7214 he really thought he said something lmaooo just delusional Jordan Stan's 🤣
@@ng7214 Well tbf Stockton’s also the all time steals leader. And he’s both the assist and steals leader by a wide margin.
@@KleinpeterHank and according to yal it's just a "lOnGevItY aWraRd" right ? Or is that just when LeBron has a record? John Stockton played 19 seasons
Shannon got him he passes Micheal with fewer shot than Micheal took. Skip couldn't even respond
This debate is boring, really is. MJ is the GOAT, there is no debate. Lebron is a legend in his own right, just leave it as that.
Lebron has taken 2300 shots more than MJ...... playing 4 more seasons than him. This just shows MJ shot wayyyyyyyyyyy more than Lebron.
But passed Jordan points in less shots.
@@chrisbonfigkio3892 Chad wasnt ready for that FACT haha
Taking more shots is fine, PPG is what matter. MJ has lead the league in scoring 10x, 8 of those times he had 30 or more ppg. LBJ has lead in scoring once, and got 30 ppg less than 3x lol.
@@fredrickwhynn6225 yeah u just showed your IQ with that take. I won't even discuss hooping with someone that says that.
Isaiah Thomas be speaking straight facts but instead of the focus being on what he says they immediately bash him because you don't suppose to say anything praising lebron James over Jordan. Jordan never beat 1 dynasty team in his whole career, lebron has faced dynasty teams in the finals 90% of of the time lol 🤷🏽♂️ Jordan played on the ONLY big 3 team in the league in the 90s every other team had 1 allstar and 4 plumbers 😂 lebron James is the GOAT 🐐 clearly
Dude you don't even know what your talking about. 1 all-star and 4 plumbers huh lol mmmk
Mj didn’t beat a dynasty because he was the dynasty. Yea, he clearly a goat, the kind that goes in the pasture to graze.
Mavs Thunder and Heat must’ve been dynasties..you’re a clown. 💀😂
It's crazy how Skip constantly tried to downplay LeBron becoming the all-time leading scorer as a longevity thing, and now
he calls LeBron the greatest scorer in NBA history!👑🤣
Everybody knows that Isaiah is one "The All-Time Greatest Haters" I don't take anything he say as facts. He still salty about not playing on the 92 Olympic team and that he got swept 4-0 in the Eastern Conference Finals by the 🐐 after coming off back to back titles so anything Isaiah say is laughable
About time somebody can see. Hate tor raid
he changes his opinions like most people change socks.
the question is could lebron score so much in jordan's time with a rodman defending him or the defense of that time?
jordans best teammate was charles oakley from 85 to 87. Broke his foot in 86, missed 60+ games n sneaked into playoffs. 63 on boston n got swept in 3. Pippen n grant got drafted in 87 draft, but they were projects. Took few yrs to improve n jordan bulked up so he can take on the pistons. During this time, all the good teams in the east had multiple allstars. However, jordan advanced further after every post season loss n eventually got to the 91 finals n the prime years lasted 91 to 98. Once he got to the top, he stayed at top. Defending as the champ yr after yr, is the hardest thing to do. Jordan scored 30000 pts in 13 seasons with bulls, n 3k with wizards. Math isnt hard, especially with a calculator
Jordan took more shots cause they barely called fouls. LeBron flops and gets calls. Jordan was a better defender and Jordan went to college and left in his prime to play professional baseball.
Still aint win nun when he came to the NBA
Facts Real Eazzy.
You mad? Lmao bron is the goat ! Its inevitable my guy! Run with it or run from it ! 🐐👑
@@jv-heavyzeo8588 didn’t LeBron run to Miami to win his first title
@@ImSerious815 yes cause he was on a trash team when mj had no help what did he win
Let it go Isaiah!! Move on just as Jordan has!!
If you don't know anything about the game or if you haven't played any sports then you probably don't know that longevity is part of the talent. Ask Karl Ripken about it . Let's face it , Skip is just a clawn making money everyday just by talking trash about the king .. 🤴 easy money