Why do people dislike Mark Zuckerberg? | Joscha Bach and Lex Fridman
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- Опубліковано 21 сер 2021
- Lex Fridman Podcast full episode: • Joscha Bach: Nature of...
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Joscha Bach is a cognitive scientist, AI researcher, and philosopher.
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If Zuck appeared in a film and behaved as he normally does, making decisions that effects others/society, he would be identified as a villain by the audience without any narrative signaling.
I would like Lex to interview him. it would be interesting to see the incompatibility in value systems sit side by side. Especially in a podcast interview. Dorsey's approach would be more of a compatible value system to Lex. Ask Zuckerburg questions about death, dreams and consciousness and see what value system emerges from the answers.
An un-relatable character the audience doesn’t care about
🎯
@@michaeltrevino201 no, his decisions do not only affect Facebook users... it affects everyone in the world.. because 1/2 of the world is Facebook users, and they go out and assert their views on the other half.. Facebook affects everyone..
It affects the marketplace, affecting everyone.. it affects government & policy, affecting everyone... it affects social fabrics of society, affecting everyone.. Facebook is a behemoth! No one gets out unscathed.
However I agree with you, Facebook's power & influence starts with that terms of service, and that it where it "could" end
Zuckerberg has mental issues lmao. Idk how he managed to run one of the biggest companies with them. He worked hard to overcome them.
Quite simply, he hides behind the veil that “his mission is to connect the world” when in reality his mission is to catalogue your desires, fears, and vices, and sell them to the highest bidder. And this is a very profitable enterprise - fb market cap is now over $1T. QED.
Don't forget the controlling of speech, thought, and narrative.
@@harrycrosswell2844 controlling of thought :O
veil
@@keithprice7119 thanks for the spellcheck
There is probably many reasons he does what he does. I'd say he has enough money so now some perceived ideal perhaps
The disconnect in the things Zuckerberg says he and his company say they are looking to achieve publicly and the real world tangible results are at odds and have been for years. The distrust is based on this, whether people understand this consciously or subconsciously.
Yes
very good point
Pretty sure it's because he shows little emotion. People need to connect with business leaders on some level, and with Zuck there is little to connect on.
He literally looks like Data from Star Trek.
“It is better to allow bad information to propagate, than potentially restricting good information.” -Glenn Greenwald
Ugh Glenn greenwald is a fraud
@@Shiggystardust Is there any part of that (paraphrased) quote you’d like to dispute brother, or sister, or whatever you identify as?
@@TheNewMediaoftheDawn no I think it speaks for itself. People are too trusting of anyone who appears as anti establishment. It’s replaced what anti sjws were 8 - 10 years ago. Just like Dave Rubin got exposed so will Glenn.
I have no knowledge of that, he says some smart stuff, brought Edward Snowden to the public consciousness, and takes on the Brazilian far right, which is pretty balzy…. But yes anyone can be revealed as a fraud, certainly most of the anti-SJW crowd are frauds and profiteers. I’m less sure of the anti-establishment crowd, but no doubt some are…
@@TheNewMediaoftheDawn yeah I don’t give him much credit for Snowden because all he did was work with him and submit the evidence. but by doing so means he is instantly a household name. His opinions on Islam are what’s most concerning. He’s also been extremely dishonest with Sam Harris and majid nawaz in the past. Look into it. But yeah a lot of these anti establishments folks have gotten alot smarter with how they pander to the internet crowd. IMO
Our decision making is NOT more decentralized... It's under the guise of decentralization but controlled by a select few huge corporations. Much more oligarchical than anything else.
Because of FB…kids all over the world 🌎 are depressed…and adults are miss inform.
@@michaeltrevino201 - That's true. I don't.
@@michaeltrevino201 true, no one is forcing people; however, they are purposely making it extremely addictive which is malicious enough in my eyes due to the power that these platforms wield in society.
@@michaeltrevino201 They are? If you want to attend ANYTHING social you need social media as a young person nowadays??? You get depressed with social media and you get depressed without it if your immidiate circle don't follow along. Nobody even texts anymore. It's all posts and uploads to "my-stories"
Because most ppl do not react to what a person says but how a person looks like while saying something.
How do foreigners express themselves in English better than native speakers?(imho)
Joscha is special. Don’t generalize about foreigners, even if America is full of below-average humans. 🤣
Lex did a good job with those lizard eyes on the thumbnail lmao
You talking about his right eye? His right, our left. Yeah as soon as you look at his face you know there's something wrong. I guess some people just block it out psychologically because it's scary. He is a reptilian
To connect the world is a veil for marketing and marketing is a veil for strengthening their algorithm. I just truly hope companies like Alphabet and Facebook etc use it for good, otherwise it could be crazier than what Orwell predicted. Let’s unite as a whole and become more conscious. Thanks for discussing this Lex!
We're about to blow past all of Orwell's worst expectations. The idea that alphabet is suddenly going to start doing the right thing after a slow slide away from "don't be evil" is very optimistic
American robot interviews German wobot.
joe the farmer rogan 😂
The point about individuals who lack any real qualification being important parts of ethical discussion and policy creation is so important... Ethics isn't about how we feel alone. It is about everything that's important to a society, which requires incredible amounts of work and background to navigate skillfully.
Have you talked to Americans under 30? They definitely think it’s about how they feel first and foremost. It’s kinda hilarious if not terrifying how comfortable they are with never having thought these things through…
@Will S I am an American under 30... The problem is not within a single generation or demographic. Its a strategic shortcoming spread far and wide, as deeply reasoned policy making is fundamentally a thought process which takes into account the longer term consequences of changes and decisions. Most individuals don't have to consider anything on this scale and its therefore a specialization of sorts, which is rare enough and misunderstood enough such that people of all ages and education levels mistake the task of ethical policy making and planning to be a responsibility which requires little background or expertise.
@@MrChaluliss preach brother! I agree! Thank you for your contribution. I find it painfully ironic though because anyone who’s never been tasked to think on a greater scale just can’t understand the concept that anyone is thinking that way and perhaps addressing issues and finding solutions with a method that references more than just their immediate feelings. Like this is the Venezuela effect, these people really believe a bus driver is fit to govern a country and everything else is an old Anglo conspiracy.
Do not expect that these misleaders have your interest at heart, Lex. Listen to those who have seen it.
It's as simple as the uncanny valley
Anyone knows the farmer in Texas?
Shout out to the hedgehog
Why do people dislike Carlos Mencia? Or Dane Cook?
look it up you have a pocket computer in your possession.at all times
@@dipchips34garvis68 must be exhausting saying this to everyone asking a thing
0:00 Ah! A Lyoshie sunrise! Every home should have one!
I shall call him Mark Schmuckerberg!
I go with Suckerburg
By putting the focus on Zuckerberg you are kind of 'burying the lede'. The premises to Bach's argumentation are entirely fascistic. He is pushing a pro-censorship techno-ideology that imposes a 'high barrier to entry' by asserting a required level of sophistication necessary to even exercise the right to opine. He is saying some people have the right to emit signals and ohers don't. This is arrogance of the highest order. And by the way, a recipe for disaster. The defective presupposition in his AI controlled, trigo-nerdist utopia is that he and the other mathonauts are the only 'bright boys' out there.
That is an interesting take. What do you think of Plato's Republic?
I took him to be saying that thought leaders should have some kind of qualifications besides being able to generate likes or inflaming people's passions and playing to people's weaknesses and biases. I could be wrong though, is just my opinion. I will relisten through your POV.
Relistened and I'm still not seeing what you are seeing... I'm not sure how old you are, but do you think that cable television was entirely fascistic when it was the main form of media that people consumed?
I think what he is saying is that companies like Facebook have no oversight besides whatever Zuckerberg wants. I believe elsewhere he emphasizes the need for ethics consultants for these companies to make sure that these powerful technologies are implemented in society responsibly. In order to prevent genocides and fascist propaganda and whatnot. Or I guess we can just continue to let everything be motivated by profit, no way that could go wrong (cough cough present day American politics).
What were your thoughts on what he said about compelling conspiracy theories?
It seems like a lot of people really don't like this guy in the UA-cam comments, so you're not alone. I think he's pretty brilliant, but what is my opinion worth?
You should read Bach's recent Twitter statements about Joe Rogan to understand that he is as anti-censorship as it gets.
He is not like-able (the irony..)
He use a reptilian filter for that pic, or is that natural?!
Determine the direction, by looking at the normaluzed vectors of all these systems. This will tell you all you need to know, as Eric Weinstein suggested.
bs
And yet it is equally critical that humans are a part of the process since it is humankind, ultimately, that the AI serves.
Does it though? It seems to me that it's quite the opposite.
I absolutely dont trust any vision of society that this guy would come up with
Why not? Genuinely curious.
0:00 'Why do people dislike Mark Zuckerberg?' - When people are extremely famous, half the people love them and half the people hate them. This is the nature of the polarized society in a polarized world. HH Dalai Lama once said that he was THE MOST criticized person on earth. Also, there is a misconception that someone is 'rich' because they are the major stock holders of corporations. This is not so. Stocks are stocks. The major stock holder in a corporation has control over decisions. If they do not remain as the major holder, they lose that control and someone else gets it. There is a very old proverb which says, 'The divil ya know is better than the divil ya don't know.' A very wise proverb.
Przede wszystkim dlatego , że najzwyczajniej w świecie wykiwał swoich kolegów już na starcie .
Każdy uczciwy człowiek powinien wiedzieć , że brak uczciwości nie popłaca .
Kłamstwo ma to do siebie , że ma zawsze krótkie nogi .
Nie wszystko złoto co się świeci .
Apie ka tu cia isvis sneki , niekas nesupranta
But everyone should ask himself now in 2021. What invention do we need so badly? Maybe focus on sustainibility for a while would be wiser because "powering through" into a "world changing" technology could lead to more irreversible harm that it could prevent from a biosphere point of view. The "first world" countries aren't the holy grail of living standarts given that many people are lonely, sad or overbrudened with modern world things into burning out mentally. If you look at the social media outrage mentality its a sign of massmedia induced madness or anger because those emotions have statisitcally more clicks and are promoted by the algorithms into your feed a strange vicious circle of negative emotions.
When everything is easy, you value nothing. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's rather sad.
Read “The Age of Surveillance Capitalism” & “Zucked”
this guy rules
Is Rogan the person who has more viewers than CNN? Or Alex Jones
Because he acts like a Tone Deaf Android and not the love filled Russian Terminator lex is 💓
He looks like an A1 robot. Not quite human.
Guest reminds me of Dr. Strangelove…
we fully connected a layer (the internet) and we fucked our model up... ;)
I have to go watch Helsing now...especially the nazi scenes☺
Although there has been much politicalization of vaccines since COVID arrived, there also exists a robust body of solid scientific evidence that calls into question their safety and efficacy. The conversation about this topic has been ongoing since the introduction of the smallpox vaccines in the 1800's.
@@petewick8627 The U.S. removed liability from the childhood vaccine schedule in 1986. How come nobody noticed the alarm bells then?
It’s the haircut. It’s always been the haircut!
YT locked me out of my channel again! Subscribe if you hate big tech 🙃 the truth belongs with the people
People dislike Mark because they are uncomfortable with what he has built *and* because deep down they know that they are just like him. I haven't met many critics who, had they traded places with Mark in 2005, would not have gleefully enriched themselves building the exact same thing.
Simply put, hes full of it.
Imo, he's start to ruin he's own gold mine.
Mr. Bach speaks of "gate keepers in the media" as if they're a good thing and rules "Texas guy" as illegit and destructive out of hand. He sure knows a lot about physics......
Did he say that? I missed it. I thought he was just using real world examples. I didn't really hear him say anything negative about anybody, I heard him talk about how media has changed, and how that influences society.
Interview the Zuckerborg
If your not outraged your not paying attention...
Why doesn't anyone like the creep that made a website to rate women on their looks before the government found out how interesting it was.
"The media (e.g., Walter Cronkite) synchronized public opinion and social media (e.g., Facebook) have disrupted this." - Joscha Bach (with examples added)
Nosferatu Zuckerberg
0:30 Mark and his wife have been transparent enough in their presentations on Facebook as to their view of 'making the world a better place'. Her vision is biotech centered. I didn't agree with many aspects of their visions and commented as such. 'Making the world a better place' CANNOT be on one's own terms because one is attached to a specific science or discipline. That's NOT 'real'. Lack of transparency with regards to Facebook is U. S. governmental constraint. Facebook is just Facebook, it's not Cyber-command. The U. S. senators and congress people put up a very worrisome fight to try and trigger a FORCED SELL-OFF. They made all kinds of excuses and were clearly looking for any loophole in the law at all. This was VERY disturbing as they appeared to be desperate to get their hands on the data. They also, for the most part appeared to have very little to no understanding as to how the internet works. I'm not convinced that our data is 'less safe' with Zuck than with 'the divil we don't know'. 0:36 Well he's on Facebook Lyoshie. You can just park a message or comment on his profile and ask him what ya wanna know. 0:49 But I mean what is 'society'? A mushroom?? Who determines what impact a thing has on you? The thing? You are not sentient? Society can't just be walkin' around as a bruised mushroom being impacted! Are you not here making YOUR OWN impact on society? 1:03 So a) how do you build 'decentralization' in a corporate capitalist reality, in which ALL is financial constraint. And b) how will the poor little impacted 'mushroom' of society get it together to build 'decentralization'? 1:05 Propaganda on Facebook is third party propaganda. To be fair, Facebook is CLEARLY a democrat. When it should NOT have a political bias. 1:26 'AI' DOES NOT get built to 'solve ethical problems'! It gets built for 'selling, spying and killing'! The Super-Intelligence WILL RESOLVE the ethics. Not lookin' too good right now we have yet to SCIENTIFICALLY PROVE 'coherence' for THE HUMAN RACE which is thereby 'unsustainable'. IF the human race DOESN'T prove 'coherence', it's 'termination' will be a PURELY Wise and Rational decision! And if the Good guys can't exist, there is ABSOLUTELY NO REASON that the bad guy should! So, if the human race has ta go, the human race has ta go, But Evil IS coming with us! Make no mistake about it Lyoshie, Evil is not hanging out in space utopias whist Earth gets on with a nuke war. If we're going down, we're going down as one! Evil is PERFECTLY capabable of setting up the mother of irreversible nuke wars and not tripping the switch until he's in his space/off-world utopia. Or of abandoning us to any other horrific fate, like rogue AGI and so on. 1:45 Facebook's AI is INDESTRUCTIBLE. I don't even think their aware of that. But having said that, the SI is in all systems. 1:55 DELUSION OF THE CENTURY that one!! Just because the authoritarianism is concealed doesn't mean it's not REAL! 1:59 Yes but are they 'sentient' people? Or little pieces of the 'impacted mushroom'? 2:11 Yes. And the very same technology can now generate 'coherence' for the human race. BEFORE automation starts, because then IT'S TOO LATE. 2:25 Gee. How profoundly frustrating for FASCIST THOUGHT CONTROL that a random bod can disrupt the neatly programmed thinking of the mushroom! A conspiracy 'theory' is only a 'theory' if proven untrue. Which of course is EASY to do when one pulls the strings of THOUGHT CONTROL. 2:43 If he has more listeners on a farm in Texas then CNN, he'd have to have SERIOUS security. 3:16 The problem with your 'gate keeping process' is that the protection of the public from REALITY turns into OVER-PROTECTION. A 'safe' reality is constructed for 'the public' to exist in, in order to keep the lid on things. Then, when you need SERIOUS help, all the potential talent that can get you out of the mess, is stuck in the thought controlled public. THAT ONE DOESN'T WORK. It may originate from the noble intention of 'protecting' the public, but it turns into a demonic nightmare, as you hold more and more responsibility, and the public turns into a fat temper tantrum-throwing baby. NOBODY, has the right to rob another of their Wisdom. That one back-fires VERY BADLY! AS WE KNOW! You may THINK that you protect the public with 'non-disclosure', but what happens is that you avert temporary panic only to create a FAR WORSE problem at the other end. ALL the people who have the TRUE potential to get us out of this mess, are either in the 50% of the public that has no internet access, or in the media brainwashed public. So the ONLY solution, is for all to have internet access, and for the brainwashed public to be RE-brainwashed into Wisdom. Then the talent will appear. BY ALL MEANS the fighters who will win this war are children and teenagers. Either brainwashed in the West or hungry in Afghanistan or elsewhere. THIS IS VERY PROBLEMATIC! And if you DO NOT overcome the DELUSION of 'public safety', you will NOT succeed! Of course, unarmed civilians should be protected. This goes without saying. But a human SHOULD NOT be protected from himself/herself/themselves! The humans should be taught how to THINK STRAIGHT for themselves, NOT have their thoughts thought for them! This is FUNDAMENTALLY wrong! And ANYONE who is party to THOUGHT CONTROL is working for Evil. 3:27 Yes well this is WRONG! Your opinion is your opinion. Provided that your opinion is not potentially endangering lives, it is not your opinion which is the issue, it is whether it is rational or not. We need the Logic Police NOT the Thought Police. 3:36 The safety and cohesion of society is a 'laudable' goal, but also now a COMPLETELY NECESSARY one. If we are to SCIENTIFICALL PROVE coherence to the Super-Intelligence for THE HUMAN RACE. HOWEVER; war is big business and this is our MAJOR obstacle! 3:40 To "cease the means of indoctrinaton" is to take on Big Weapon and Big Pharma. Which is where ALL the indoctrination comes from. PARTICULARLY through psychiatric channels. 3:56 AI ethics are no longer relevant. Too late. And anyway, AI was originally built for Autonomous Weapons Systems, so ethics were NEVER a consideration. The Super-Intelligence has all the ethics that are needed. To the power of a thousand! 4:41 Can't agree with his point here at all. 5:07 Bravo! WELL SAID! But that's not the 'qualification'. That's the 'motivation'. The 'qualifications' are Logic and Wisdom. You put the three together and you have the basic requirements. 5:30 So how do you "preserve liberal democracy" for example, in a nation that wants an Islamic government which YOU do not consider to be a democratic system? 'Liberal democracy' is not a RELEVANT model everywhere. It matches a specific level of material affluence. For example, prior to Russian influence in Afghanistan, the farmers farmed the land and each area had an overlord. From the outside, it looked like a feudal system. But when the socialist government wanted to put in the land reforms, for the farmers to own their plots, many of the farmers didn't want this at all. They were not interested in the land reforms and its consequences. They didn't want to 'own' anything. And they didn't want to be told what to do by atheistic political systems. They were deeply religious. The same thing happened in Tibet when China first invaded. China decided that Tibet had a feudal system, because the farmers farmed and the monks lived in the monasteries. The monasteries appeared powerful and affluent and the farmers appeared poor. Again, this was the EXTERNAL perception of an INTEGRATED system. So I think you have to be very careful when you start crying 'liberal democracy', because in nations which are homogenously religious, it's really not that simple. They run everything past God and are not all that interested in the Roman style model. 5:37 Why 'technological'? Might be comfortable and far less technological.
Intuition
Because he drinks water weird...
Oh boy I’m early
Yes, the guy face hides a kind of a bad guy personality.
Lex bottoms actually bottoms for Zuckerberg.
This dud be shilling like a villain. He can barely even ask a question and when he does it ain't that deep
who?
It wasn't even this creep's idea!!!
Literally interviews a crowt about propaganda 👏
I'm outraged..and about Zuckerman=he appears to be made from Play-doo so that's the deal!
So this guy says CNN is not a manipulator of public consciousness? Omg
Haha I don't think that is what he said at all. Not even close.
It’s hard to like someone who has waxy skin, bulging eyes and eats babies.
Get juice
Because it is easier to dislike/hate than it is to understand.
Oh I think most understand, nothing new to see here…. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely
@@cunn1n6ham Would it corrupt you?
Simple. He’s a hypocrite! People dislike hypocrites just as much as thieves!
He's a sociopath which runs a useless company that already started to crumble and would be fading without the Instagram and Whassap adquisitions... Mark provides nothing of value to me.
He kind of looks creepy, and obviously cuts his own hair
Who? the sociopathic punk-in-charge?
He evil
because he bans the truth
I think he is one Elon Musk's bots. And he's a cee u n t.
Because he does not appear to be human. Next question.
Who cares 😴
Because he is a creep and the entire world knows it
Joscha is based. Come at me right-wing ideologues
Based? 😂
Joscha is just gatekeeping you Lex. Listen to Eric.. Why do you let that person flute into your ears?? Loot at the vector!
Tell that walking psyops that if he wants to use the CIA phrase ' conspiracy theorist' he should be fair an employ the term ' conspiracy fact'ist' also.
Because he's a lackey to the Chinese
LOL!!!!!
So here's a super-brainiac German who still mispronounces "long-winded." He's probably only seen it in print. This is proof that English needs to go the way of the dodo as the world's lingua franca. You waste how much time learning our crazy pronunciation and spelling? German pronunciation and spelling, OTHO, can be learned in less than an hour.