I have three Tokai's, a 1978 LS60 Les Paul Reborn, a 2013 Love Rock LS100F, and a 2021 Love Rock LS212F. As a Tokai fanboy I'm really glad I found this channel!
I own several Tokai, Greco and Aria Pro ii late 70’s to early 80’s Les Pauls. Incredible guitars. Sold most of my Gibsons as a result. Love the “lawsuit” guitars!
This is flat-out amazing. Instead of the superficial stuff you usually see, you're telling old hands completely new information. Now I'm fascinated to know how close Tokais have remained to that original model. I've never played a 77-85 Tokai. But the necks on a number of MIJ Love Rocks I've played are nearly identical. It's fascinating to think that they're not so much clones of the '50s Les Paul as clones of _a_ '50s Les Paul. My 2010 LS150 is my number one for over a decade. I just gigged it twice over the weekend. So I'm fascinated to see more of what you and Mike can dig up. It's an interesting time for Tokai - out from family ownership after 70+ years - and I hope you'll touch on what you learned about that in Japan.
Thanks for the super kind comment! We love to go as deep as we can on our subjects. In large part the access we've enjoyed with Tokai has been thanks to the new ownership, who have been extremely accommodating and generous with their personnel, time, and resources (and in large part the personnel is still from the "old guard")
I was in Tokyo a few years ago. Headed over to Ochanomizo street which has about 10 music shops on one block. It was heaven for guitar hunters. I found an amazing sunburst Tokai Love Rock Les Paul for $600. The guitar feels just like a high end LP. Maybe better. I put PAF humbuckers in it and it feels like a guitar worth triple the cost. I’d love to see more vids about this guitar in future.
When I was there in 2014 I bought a 2008 Tokai LS160GT with P90s inc case for 50,000 yen (£290) as it had been in an earthquake, and had small damage to the horn and armrest binding which I fixed. It was in what they called the "junk aisle" These are premium quality guitars that compete with the Historic's. It had a small Gibson mini humbucker installed the neck - but the original P90 was still in the case. I was so excited that my wife had to allow me to get it!!
Since 2016 I am the proud owner of a '78 Les Paul Reborn... never played another guitar since. It's just a perfect piece of gear. I love it. Nice to learn about the backstory , great content. keep going!
This is what I've been looking for! I know there is alot to unpack and I'm looking forward to more!! I've always wanted to know more about the reference pieces!
@@johnfoskey7855 after seeing the guitar on that auction site and then finding out he had more than one I stopped lusting over a actual Gibson Les Paul and I’m saving up for a Tokai or a Greco or a Burny
Look at pictures from the tour in the mid 80s. Show from Essen Germany. The video is on here from RockPalast. That is a Tokai Les Paul Reborn. Same look as Pearly Gates. I have the same guitar.
I have this on DVD. Sometimes it's Pearly , sometimes it's the Tokai. I doubt he would tour it after that time. One of best friends dad was their road manager from 1969 to 1999. He doesn't know anything about that but logistics. And I own that exact bass. Not a replica. It's definitely a Fender neck, but that's it.
If you look at the Gibson Les Pauls from the late 70s and early 80s, they had very little in common with late 50s Gibsons. Nor did I believe they claimed to be some sort of Reissue of the 59. But Tokai and other Japanese manufacturers made more accurate Reissue models (thin binding in the cutaway, ABR style bridge with studs mounted directly into the wood, long neck tenon, etc.) which you only began to see when Gibson's Custom Shop started to do the 59 Reissues back in late 93, bar from a few dealer requested Reissues before that time. So, a Tokai LS 100 and upwards from the late 70s and early 80s is a very fine instrument. Even Gibson's own Orville by Gibson Brand, made in Japan 59R and 57R guitars, made at the Fujigen factory between 92 and 95 had all the abovementioned Reissue appointments (plus late 50s Y SSSS serial numbers printed) albeit with Japanese bridges, tailpieces, and tuners, but they did come with the Gibson '57 Classic pickups. And those PU's were the ones, I believe, were on the first Custom Shop Reissues in 1993. I can't speak about the body carving of those Law Suite Guitars, because I never held a true 59 Les Paul or a 57 Les Paul Custom to compare.
I think the one tidbit of info that doesn't really get mentioned, tho you started to touch on it,,,, re: dubbing gtrs "lawsuit"...none of these manufacturers in Japan besides Ibanez were actually trying to import any of these gtrs into the USA. In the 70s in the USA, you didn't go to your local Greco, FGN or Tokai dealer for a Gibson/Fender copy,,,,they didn't exist. The companies that weren't Ibanez were untouchable as they didn't export at the time. Even now, a company like FGN (Fujigen) still makes those guitars in their NeoClassic series...but look at the Les Paul style in the NeoClassic series that is sold in Japan and look at the Les Paul style that's legally exported, they aren't the same. 👍🤘
My 77 Yamaha Studio Lord SL-380 is a such an awesome lawsuit guitar, I sold the Gibson Les Paul Limited I'd played for fifteen years almost immediately.
Interesting video! About the rise in price of the old guitar made in recent Japan, a president of Tokai commented in a newspaper as follows. 'As the manufacturing method does not change with old days, and the precision of the NC machine becomes good, a product more present than an old product is certainly better.' So buy new one.
Long time Tokai user here - have had a non export 1985 Love Rock since 1990 that has the open book headstock, one piece back and neck (with wings) and two piece slightly figured maple cap - no nibs but 17 degree headstock. Now has 1990 MJ wound SD pickups. Great guitars. As I understand Billy Gibbons and Joe Walsh were early adopters. One thing Tokai did was to have an offset tenon - I think to try mitigate the common bump Les Pauls get on the treble side near the 15th fret. Look forward to the next instalment and thanks for clarifying the lawsuit meme, which seems to me used just to bump up the resale value rather than having any factual value.
Well damn I didn't know you guy's had a youtube channel I would have been here earlier lol I bought a super nice Greco EG59-70 from you guy's awhile back love it.....
Great new in info on vintage MIJ stuff. Seing those polaroids confirms they knew what they were doing. I own to Burny´s. The FLG-90 is from 1980, and I´ve measured it and all matches the overall measures from the Beauty if the burst book. So I assumed they had one to do that. It plays and sound very good. Altough I swapped the pickups for some better "replica" the originals are sitting on a semi hollow and sounds pretty good too. Back than they were cheaper. Hope those series doesn´t sky rocket the prices. I want to buy more, not sell mine.
I have an '18 LS136F that's pretty amazing. It has a fat neck, though not quite a 50's baseball bat and it weighs pretty close to 11 pounds. I'm not sure what the output of the pickups are, but it's super resonant and has a huge voice. I don't know if you can say that it beats a really well made Gibson, but it's certainly better than an average one.
Playing Big Star on a Japanese Les Paul!!!! You and I are practically the same guy. Note my little icon pic - I'm playing my Edwards (ESP's production line of mostly Gibson and Fender replicas) ES-335.
A "Lawsuit" has to result in a court case. The so called lawsuit myth against Ibanez never got to court, and was basically just a letter sent to Hishino USA. However, Gibson vs PRS was a genuine lawsuit. And Fender vs John Suhr, Tom Anderson and 15 other guitar companies actually went to court, so that was a big case but also not a lawsuit, it was a Trademark Opposition case.
As with much of Japanese manufacturing in that post-war era, they became experts at the knock-off, producing high quality replicas of American (and other countries') products. While their manufacturing and originality in product design have continued to mature, they still do the replication thing very well. The Lexus brand from Toyota was purely a knock-off of Mercedes-Benz and they were able to make a comparable quality product for far less. Certainly they also figured out how to do it without getting sued (which is key!). I am a Japanese guitar fan, particularly Japanese Fenders, and I find them to be of equal or better quality compared to USA made Fender guitars.
I have three Tokai's, a 1978 LS60 Les Paul Reborn, a 2013 Love Rock LS100F, and a 2021 Love Rock LS212F. As a Tokai fanboy I'm really glad I found this channel!
I own several Tokai, Greco and Aria Pro ii late 70’s to early 80’s Les Pauls. Incredible guitars. Sold most of my Gibsons as a result. Love the “lawsuit” guitars!
This is flat-out amazing. Instead of the superficial stuff you usually see, you're telling old hands completely new information. Now I'm fascinated to know how close Tokais have remained to that original model. I've never played a 77-85 Tokai. But the necks on a number of MIJ Love Rocks I've played are nearly identical. It's fascinating to think that they're not so much clones of the '50s Les Paul as clones of _a_ '50s Les Paul.
My 2010 LS150 is my number one for over a decade. I just gigged it twice over the weekend. So I'm fascinated to see more of what you and Mike can dig up. It's an interesting time for Tokai - out from family ownership after 70+ years - and I hope you'll touch on what you learned about that in Japan.
Thanks for the super kind comment! We love to go as deep as we can on our subjects. In large part the access we've enjoyed with Tokai has been thanks to the new ownership, who have been extremely accommodating and generous with their personnel, time, and resources (and in large part the personnel is still from the "old guard")
I was in Tokyo a few years ago. Headed over to Ochanomizo street which has about 10 music shops on one block. It was heaven for guitar hunters. I found an amazing sunburst Tokai Love Rock Les Paul for $600. The guitar feels just like a high end LP. Maybe better. I put PAF humbuckers in it and it feels like a guitar worth triple the cost. I’d love to see more vids about this guitar in future.
When I was there in 2014 I bought a 2008 Tokai LS160GT with P90s inc case for 50,000 yen (£290) as it had been in an earthquake, and had small damage to the horn and armrest binding which I fixed. It was in what they called the "junk aisle"
These are premium quality guitars that compete with the Historic's. It had a small Gibson mini humbucker installed the neck - but the original P90 was still in the case.
I was so excited that my wife had to allow me to get it!!
@@valleywoodstudio7345 awesome find! I hope to get back to Ochanomizu Street one day, with a wad of cash.
@capitaldharma Please post a video.
Since 2016 I am the proud owner of a '78 Les Paul Reborn... never played another guitar since. It's just a perfect piece of gear. I love it. Nice to learn about the backstory , great content. keep going!
I love this series. Looking forward to more.
This is what I've been looking for! I know there is alot to unpack and I'm looking forward to more!!
I've always wanted to know more about the reference pieces!
This was very well researched and produced. Thanks for making the effort. Looking forward to future episodes. Your shop looks awesome.
Great information Mike, I look forward to more, thank you for all you do
Billy Gibbons used a love rock as a touring guitar for years
What's your proof?not saying your wrong
@@johnfoskey7855 after seeing the guitar on that auction site and then finding out he had more than one I stopped lusting over a actual Gibson Les Paul and I’m saving up for a Tokai or a Greco or a Burny
Look at pictures from the tour in the mid 80s. Show from Essen Germany. The video is on here from RockPalast. That is a Tokai Les Paul Reborn. Same look as Pearly Gates. I have the same guitar.
I have this on DVD. Sometimes it's Pearly , sometimes it's the Tokai. I doubt he would tour it after that time. One of best friends dad was their road manager from 1969 to 1999. He doesn't know anything about that but logistics. And I own that exact bass. Not a replica. It's definitely a Fender neck, but that's it.
If you look at the Gibson Les Pauls from the late 70s and early 80s, they had very little in common with late 50s Gibsons. Nor did I believe they claimed to be some sort of Reissue of the 59. But Tokai and other Japanese manufacturers made more accurate Reissue models (thin binding in the cutaway, ABR style bridge with studs mounted directly into the wood, long neck tenon, etc.) which you only began to see when Gibson's Custom Shop started to do the 59 Reissues back in late 93, bar from a few dealer requested Reissues before that time. So, a Tokai LS 100 and upwards from the late 70s and early 80s is a very fine instrument.
Even Gibson's own Orville by Gibson Brand, made in Japan 59R and 57R guitars, made at the Fujigen factory between 92 and 95 had all the abovementioned Reissue appointments (plus late 50s Y SSSS serial numbers printed) albeit with Japanese bridges, tailpieces, and tuners, but they did come with the Gibson '57 Classic pickups. And those PU's were the ones, I believe, were on the first Custom Shop Reissues in 1993.
I can't speak about the body carving of those Law Suite Guitars, because I never held a true 59 Les Paul or a 57 Les Paul Custom to compare.
Great work!!! Really great....thanks!!!!
I think the one tidbit of info that doesn't really get mentioned, tho you started to touch on it,,,, re: dubbing gtrs "lawsuit"...none of these manufacturers in Japan besides Ibanez were actually trying to import any of these gtrs into the USA. In the 70s in the USA, you didn't go to your local Greco, FGN or Tokai dealer for a Gibson/Fender copy,,,,they didn't exist. The companies that weren't Ibanez were untouchable as they didn't export at the time. Even now, a company like FGN (Fujigen) still makes those guitars in their NeoClassic series...but look at the Les Paul style in the NeoClassic series that is sold in Japan and look at the Les Paul style that's legally exported, they aren't the same. 👍🤘
My 77 Yamaha Studio Lord SL-380 is a such an awesome lawsuit guitar, I sold the Gibson Les Paul Limited I'd played for fifteen years almost immediately.
Interesting video! About the rise in price of the old guitar made in recent Japan, a president of Tokai commented in a newspaper as follows.
'As the manufacturing method does not change with old days, and the precision of the NC machine becomes good, a product more present than an old product is certainly better.'
So buy new one.
nice video! please more vintage tokai stuff
Long time Tokai user here - have had a non export 1985 Love Rock since 1990 that has the open book headstock, one piece back and neck (with wings) and two piece slightly figured maple cap - no nibs but 17 degree headstock. Now has 1990 MJ wound SD pickups. Great guitars. As I understand Billy Gibbons and Joe Walsh were early adopters. One thing Tokai did was to have an offset tenon - I think to try mitigate the common bump Les Pauls get on the treble side near the 15th fret.
Look forward to the next instalment and thanks for clarifying the lawsuit meme, which seems to me used just to bump up the resale value rather than having any factual value.
Well damn I didn't know you guy's had a youtube channel I would have been here earlier lol I bought a super nice Greco EG59-70 from you guy's awhile back love it.....
Big Star! You don’t hear that every day in guitar videos.
I'll be home next month from Alaska and I'll be heading to check out your inventory...I've been seeing some gems recently on your Reverb store..
We look forward to hosting you at our showroom!
Great new in info on vintage MIJ stuff. Seing those polaroids confirms they knew what they were doing. I own to Burny´s. The FLG-90 is from 1980, and I´ve measured it and all matches the overall measures from the Beauty if the burst book. So I assumed they had one to do that. It plays and sound very good. Altough I swapped the pickups for some better "replica" the originals are sitting on a semi hollow and sounds pretty good too. Back than they were cheaper. Hope those series doesn´t sky rocket the prices. I want to buy more, not sell mine.
I have a Dillion Fakai. IT is an amazing guitar and Ive questioned all since I bought it.
My daughter is moving to Seattle. Guess where I'll be else I'll be visiting when I come to visit her?
I have an '18 LS136F that's pretty amazing. It has a fat neck, though not quite a 50's baseball bat and it weighs pretty close to 11 pounds. I'm not sure what the output of the pickups are, but it's super resonant and has a huge voice. I don't know if you can say that it beats a really well made Gibson, but it's certainly better than an average one.
Interesting to see double ring Klusons on a 58!
still waiting on a update and for more on this one 😊
I love these vids, Mike. How's Mike doing?
Bigstar. Perfect
Great crunch tone, what amp was used?
Great video.
Tokai❤
Playing Big Star on a Japanese Les Paul!!!! You and I are practically the same guy. Note my little icon pic - I'm playing my Edwards (ESP's production line of mostly Gibson and Fender replicas) ES-335.
A "Lawsuit" has to result in a court case.
The so called lawsuit myth against Ibanez never got to court, and was basically just a letter sent to Hishino USA.
However, Gibson vs PRS was a genuine lawsuit.
And Fender vs John Suhr, Tom Anderson and 15 other guitar companies actually went to court, so that was a big case but also not a lawsuit, it was a Trademark Opposition case.
Quality is great, but the pick ups 🤔
To think those guitars were just 20 years old then. That would be like a 2003 guitar now, which doesn't seem "vintage" at all.
日本語を調べて“ラブロック”とカタカナで書いてくれたんだね。
As with much of Japanese manufacturing in that post-war era, they became experts at the knock-off, producing high quality replicas of American (and other countries') products. While their manufacturing and originality in product design have continued to mature, they still do the replication thing very well. The Lexus brand from Toyota was purely a knock-off of Mercedes-Benz and they were able to make a comparable quality product for far less. Certainly they also figured out how to do it without getting sued (which is key!). I am a Japanese guitar fan, particularly Japanese Fenders, and I find them to be of equal or better quality compared to USA made Fender guitars.
Quick... Exactly which Lexus is a "Copy" of which Mercedes ??? You dug the hole.. Go for it...