Boating with Brexit 2nd edition
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- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- FOR LATEST UPDATE VISIT RE ENTERING FRANCE - www.michaelbriant.com
THIS IS THE 2nd EDITION AND IS A MORE UP TO DATE VERSION...
This is a very complex tax and visa subject and I am trying to give an overview of the situation but everyone should take good legal advice before placing their boat long term in a non EU country or indeed in an EU country. It has become a financial nightmare if you get it wrong!
My books are available to download from: www.gentlesailing.com - Спорт
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By far the most knowledgeable sailing videos that I have found.
Thank you James. I am so pleased you found it interesting
Thanks for the update, you seem pretty chilled out, a useful quality for a skipper, you remind me of another skipper he was totally horizontal but a pleasure to sail with.
Ian how kind - to misquote 'if you can keep your head whilst all around they panic, scream and shout then it just goes to show you don't know what the ***hell is going on'! I was a freelance telly director back in the day and the ability not to panic as the plan fell apart was vital ! Fair winds
Great update, many thanks again Michael.
Graham hello, yes I think it was worth doing - Thank you
Interesting stuff. Really enjoyed listening to this. I have not sailed. Done the exact opposite to you by land. I love the Gibraltar and Tangier Ceuta region. Always enjoyed taking day trips from Algeciras port to Ceuta or Tangier Med. Always an adventure in Morocco haggling for Taxis and bartering between euros and dirham. Ceuta has no airport but very regular boats from Algeciras. Melilla has regular boats from Almeria but does have an airport. Flights to Malaga.
Your information is superb and fun to listen to. Great stuff. Thanks.
Foster thank you for watching - I am now based in northern France but the 10 years the boat was in Gib enabling visits to Morocco was really pleasurable as was Ceuta and Melilla - really miss the area.. Interesting you did it all by land - much harder!
Thank you for the update.
Andy thank you for viewing - for future viewers it is the right thing to do - I think
Many thanks for this video. I am planning to get a catamaran sailing boat next year to begin a year or two in the Mediterranean. So all of this planning is filling a lot of my spare time! I have already chartered a boat twice in Croatia and I loved the environment although it was expensive. From my research Croatia and Montenegro both have a 90 day stay rule but it’s different from the Schengen countries. So I’m guessing it’s possible to shuffle between Croatia, Montenegro, Greece and Turkey in three months stints. I already have that Schengen app on my phone ready! I’m going to watch your video about heading across the Atlantic to the Caribbean which of course is on my Wish List. Wishing you safe sailing.
Rob thank you for watching... There is also Tunisia in the area which is a very inexpensive country with good facilities... Enjoy your Cat sailing
Excellent content as always, thank you! As an RAF time served, tax-paying citizen of britain ('b'), I'm embarrassed at the state of this country and its prison-island mentality. Hence I bought a sailing boat to get off this rock! Haha! I've sailed since my Air Force days and am approaching retirement (privately funded, not government), so really like the notion of heading south.....west......east, anywhere!! Thank you for all of your in-depth and informative videos. Hope to meet you out there one day, sir! Fair winds, following seas
So pleased you found it Interesting.. Interestingly the majority of long distance sailors seen to be retired and many ex military or ex skow biz... enjoy heading south..the basic way to go IMO.
Fair winds
Very informative video, well presented. The Caribbean would be great, but the down side is the storm season. You could lose everything.
The crazy 90/180 rule surely doesn't apply to the Channel Islands for British sailors as they are or were Crown Dependencies?
What's not to stop you sailing around the Med but using the North African countries you mentioned and Turkey for ports as opposed to EU ones? Turkey sounds a great place. Advantageous now that they never got EU membership.
There were many long term Brit travellers in EU who have been affected by Brexit. The motor home brigade come to mind. The 90/180 days for them is going to be even more restrictive. At least with a boat you can leave port for another country fairly easily.
Alex hello,
So pleased you like the video...
Yes the hurricane season is an issue but you can go south to Trinidad and be out of the zone. Yes the Channel Islands are free to visit for Brit boats but you do have to clear customs when you return to the UK but the problem with the North African countries is that Algeria and Libya are no go areas which really only leaves Morocco and Tunisia and indeed your right I think - Turkey is a wonderful country for sailing boats.
Yes folks with motor homes and 2nd homes in Europe also have a mega problem now. I have a small 2nd home apartment in Spain in which I would like to spend all of the cold northern winters but now it's impossible - so sad
thank you for posting
Michael
Hi michael,
Always find your videos very interesting. Not a sailor myself, yet, but I like the freedom a sail boat seems to offer.
Have you looked into obtaining digital nomad visas (for digital entrepreneurs) for the med (would seem to deal with the Brexit problem) and the caribean (so you're not limited to Martinique) and other places?
Quite a recent thing thats becoming more and more popular. There's a lot of info online about them.
I don't really need a digital visa as I'm a French resident and my boat in Martinique is in 'France '...
Yes boats are a pretty laid back way to live although you never stop fixing them..
Glad you find the videos inspiring .
Extremely useful! Thank you for sharing!
So pleased you have found it interesting - I have just posted the forms for entering France on my website www.michaelbriant,com and the book is at www.gentlesailing.com
@@SailingGently Thank you!
@@themightyprophet I thank you for subscribing and watching
Hi Michael, Great video amongst other great video's. Re the18month 24hour rule for the Yacht .Is this still in effect and still apply?Cheers from Australia!
Nige hi, Certainly for the EU countries... Not sure for you in UK because of special relationship
Why does this feel like I’m listening to sailing tales from a Time Lord?? 🤷♂️
Well Bruce, I do feel sometimes that I 'am bravely going where others have been before'.
Crazy situations! Thank you.
It can only get better - I think Trevor
Heres a tricky one as a full time British cruiser: I was told to leave Greece/EU by end March so i fled to Montenegro. They were amazing; boat can stay here indefinitely, but i only get a 3 month visa. Tivat and the bay of Kotor is fantastic and less expensive than Greece. Several haul out options in Bar and Tivat. But... i have used up all my 90 days so now i have to wait and save up days. At best i will have 3 months to explore the entire European Med! Impossible!. Just booking it to the Caribbean so i can forget about this Brexit nonsense.
Jason hello,
Yes it really is an option just to cruise in the Eastern Med and keep heading into a non EU port then - Yes a real pain - See you in the Caribbean
I’m a new subscriber to your channel. First impression good. Very informative first video on Sailing and Brexit.
But This seems to be a repeat of what you have covered. What did I miss?
Michael Hi, I took the original and re- edited it taking out references to Cyprus and including the Adriatic ports - Thought it was worth doing as the video is getting a lot of views and may be around for a while - UA-cam makes things like that impossible to do on the original... So pleased you like the channel
Thank you! I really like your videos and I think I must have watched all of them. That said, I can't help but notice that you mention several times living in France. Because of the 90/180 Schengen rule, I'm assuming that you have a French passport or some other 'permanent residency' (or whatever they call it). How does it affect entering the EU by boat?
Consider the following scenarios:
1. A British flagged yacht sails from England across the English Channel. All aboard are French (or other EU nationalities). Do they still have to go via one of the ports of entry?
2. A yacht under French flag goes the same route (England to France), but has (some) non-EU crew. On entering Schengen, their passports should be stamped to start the 90 days. Does it mean that they have to go via port of entry?
In other words: does the port of entry requirement apply to vessel or the crew?
The documents I have seen appear to require all foreign flagged vessels or all vessels entering France with non EU passport holders on board to report to French customs and immigration - but - early days
I can see that boating for Brexit will be a Gentle sailing sub-series production.
Can't wait for episode 3.
I am waiting on the local Douane to tell my harbour master how they are going to process UK visiting boats this summer - a work in progress
@@SailingGently we are counting on you, our inside man as it were, to become an authority on the topic.
Very good summary and agrees totally with my research. As I have just retired and about to sail to the Med to spend my retirement I have spent time online to understand what you can and cannot do. The whole Brexit fiasco could not come at a worst time. After leaving Southampton (June 21) my first stop will be Almeria to drop off crew and clear customs (port of entry) then the clock starts ticking. Will use the my 90 days to get round to the Adriatic and clear customs into Montenegro (not in the EU) which I believe then by default checks you out of the EU. Be interested to know if this is true or do you need to formally clear out of EU customs before clearing in at Montenegro? Final destination will be Kas Marina in Turkey and apply for a 1 year visa. This can then be renewed annually. Also breaks the 18 month rule on the vessel. Then sail the eastern Med for a few years before heading to the Caribbean. Also understand this can be an issue because if you leave an EU port to head for the Canneries (EU country) as this all counts to your 90 day allowance. You need to stop off at Smir or Tangiers before you head out into the Atlantic to stop the clock. All a big pain in the butt. 😒
Mike everything you write is how I see it and you have a good plan.
It does seem to me if you stop in Almirimar why you don't hang onto the crew for the next leg.
As I see it you could spend a few days in Almirimar then check out and stop the clock ticking and head towards Turkey direct rather than go out of your way to the Adriatic.. If you head for Malta and start the clock again for a few days then check out stopping the clock and go direct to Turkey.
Avoid stopping in Greece as they will make you buy a cruising permit even though you are only passing through on passage - that's what happened to me when I popped out at Suez and stopped in Crete to refuel on my way to France - only wanted fuel but had to purchase a cruising permit - and that was very pre Brexit!
@@SailingGently Want to use the 90 days to have a cruise, Balearics, Sardinia, Sicily etc etc. So may as well use the 90 days for this purpose and save a load of checking in and out. Montenegro is sort of a destination if run out of time on my way to Turkey. Also always wanted to do the Corinth canal.
I understand - Yes Corinth canal is interesting and worth doing as are the approaches lovely Trimine harbour on the left
Melilla, though located at Morocco, is actually Spanish and belongs to the Schengen area.
Lars - Ouch... l could be wrong yet again - my impression was that Melilla and Ceuta whilst belonging to Spain were tax free zones and not part of the EU - similar in tax status to Gibraltar until recently. I was of the opinion that they were not part of the EU and so the 90/180 day rule would not apply there - I will have to look further
@@SailingGently I think you are correct from my understanding also. However, been to Ceuta and a relatively small marina and quite scruffy.
@@TheRectory33 Nice bars and duty free fuel!
Hi, I hope all goes well planning for your trip to the carribean. My family and I hope to visit Britain, sailing from Sweden, this summer. ( If all goes well on the covid front...) Which harbours on the east coast would you recommend?
Hi hello,
The harbours along the East coast are a bit further apart than on the South coast.
There are charming places like Southwold and Titchmarsh and bigger like Newcastle, Hull and of course going towards Edinburgh .. I have visited some of these but a little outside my normal cruising area... Marinas in the UK generally are pretty good - sorry not to be more helpful
@@SailingGently Thank you for these suggestions🙂
Great information thankyou
Paul thank you - so pleased you found it useful
I'm really enjoying your channel, thank you. As a resident of France, you should be entitled to a 10 year titre de sejour. It's my understanding that with this card, you can stay in Schengen countries without ever worrying about the 90/180 day rule. As for the boat, if it's registered in the UK, it may be a problem. If this is a problem, you could change the registration to the Netherlands which doesn't have a residency requirement for boat ownership. It would also help you avoid French boat operator certificates of competency which are needed for French flagged vessels. Cheers!
Gregg hi,
Actually I do have a 10 year Carte de Sejour which gives me 365 in France but still only 90/180 in the rest of Europe.
The boat on the other hand is Part1 British registered and I have a French 'passpot Navigue Etranger' - just got it last week. 100 euro one off payment. I may keep the boat in French waters 18 months then 24 hours out which is easy for me with the UK only a few hours sailing hours away. The civilian douane here said coming back from UK with boat passport and carte de sejour I do not need to check in - I have the right - I am taking that with a pinch of salt as there must still be customs dues on any goods I bring back from UK!
As I sail under a British flag I am not required to have any certification to sail - but actually France only require a drivers license for motorboats - nothing for sailing boats
@@SailingGently Interesting.
Very interesting. Thank you for sharing.
hello sir from an expat immigrant scot living in france, can you provide any information on the situation in the uk vis a vis fuel duty. since the paying of road tax on marine diesel was an eu requirement, surely now we have left the eu this no longer applies? could this be the elusive unicorn we've all been waiting on?
Stewart hi, a bit above my pay grade but here in France (I am ex pat English resident in France) it is illegal to have Red diesel in a boat fuel tank for propulsion. Some boats like barges have it in a separate tank for heating... So I wouldn't chance it
so what happen's in a time of a lock down of your 90 days in the eu , great info on sail i did not know that about the eu and iv sent " world towning " to them as they bought a sail boat in france and are still france and spain and in the lock down .
It's true Mat that the whole Brexit thing has brought changes but I suspect - well hope we will just get used to the paperwork when sailing across the channel but I think the Med may be a problem for some time
I have a list of ports of entry for France I have taken from one of their websites & it gives every port of entry. Number 5 is Boulogne. Can you please check your info. originally Boulogne was NOT a port of entry but I believe that it was later added
I know that you live there so would know. I have also looked for the office for checking in & it seems to be the police headquarters
Graham that is really interesting - Thank you - The original list I used came from a French Douane website but was a few weeks ago so if Boulogne has been added then that is marvellous for the marina and folks coming from Eastbourne or Dover.
The Marina here got an email from Calais Douane telling them to fill out the form for arrivals and telephone Calais - That too was a few weeks ago.
Clearly like the UK border force this is all evolving - and will become clearer when visits from the UK to France by boat actually start happening... The Douane HQ here is on a trading estate out of town but there is a Patrol Boat based in the port although that does not have a shore office.
My conclusion has been, for several years now, that my long term destination for a live aboard retirement has now to be the Caribbean. Starting off with a very well planed and non leisurely, voyage to a departure point to cross the Atlantic. Welcome to the BRexit Sir!
Jonathan I feel for you - although using Tangier or possibly Smir as a long stop - over place on the way to the Canaries could work?
@@SailingGently That's "Plan B". If I need the extra time I can provision and do a lot of pre crossing checks there.
So, for postal forms, I have to have a printer aboard..... and a scanner to record proof of my printed and posted forms!?
Ratus hi,
Once everyone starts using the system I expect they will come to their senses. Mind you here in France there are some very odd ideas about how to handle visiting Brits - and that will change I expect/hope
@@SailingGently slightly off topic.
Printers.
Pandemic related. Manufacturers of cars canceled their electronics parts orders at the start of pandemic.
Global working from home took off and so did global remote teaching; and these had to be electronically provisioned... overnight fast.
The far eastern semiconductor industry quickly retooled to feed the new demand for laptops, storage devices, printers, scanners, home routers and even mice. New semiconductor factories are being built.
Upshot: now new car manufacturing restart is stalled for want of 30 cent components. John Lewis Et AL have runout of printers and these are available at a FIVE HUNDRED PERCENT plus markup on the interweb.
Alongside the lack of printer and scanner hardware is the accompanying depletion of world ink supply! Due to home education.
Thus sailors will fail well before posting their hand filled-out forms.
My old self had a technology career and to me, this was painfully predictable.
Who is the owner of that lovely back in the photo frame?
She is lovely isn't she..
I know this is now officially an ‘old video’ but I suspect not much has been ‘clarified’ since you posted and it certainly looks as though the snail mail version of the UK form remains extant and any digitisation remains very firmly in the ‘vapour ware’ category.
I should imagine there are great opportunities in Turkey for expanding existing Marina facilities and maybe even carving out new ones so that they can meet the new demand of British sailors who were getting increasing hacked off with Greece (cruising tax), the propensity of their port police to make it up as they go along and now the 90/180 aspect. Greece is going to lose the Brits and have to rely on EU sailors which effectively means Italians who usually only descend July/August. Greece really does not need another dent in its economy.
I agree with all you say Norman about Greece and I too think Turkey is probably one of the places for the future for sailing Brits
So depressing, am in my twenties just bought my first boat and brexit has completely ruined anyway I can sail on a budget. I'm looking for people who are in a similar position. May just have to brave it and cross to the Caribbean after sailing england for a year? Anyone got any better advice?
Taylor there are wonderful places to sail to in the Channel area so for a year or so that's fine - It's great you have a boat and I am pretty certain things will become easier over time at the moment it's all so new
@@SailingGently thank you
Cyprus is not in schengen so the 90/180 doesn’t apply and a brand new Marina outside Ayia Napa as well as marina’s at the other coastal cities
Brian thank you for that - I think you are probably right but southern Cyprus is, I think, in the EU and it is that not Schengen which requires obedience to the 90/180 day rule - except for folks with residency
@@SailingGently Are you sure about that. Croatia is in the EU and the 90/180 does not apply there.
Yes Paul you are right and I was wrong - I am surprised that the 90/180 does not apply so maybe it's because Croatia is not in Schengen and has it's own currency. This is all a steep learning curve
@@SailingGently As a small side note, just to clarify, currency is not a guiding factor. Sweden is in EU and in Schengen zone, but decided to keep the Swedish krona (SEK). It was a public vote on that, although a majority of Swedes do like the EU "mostly", they were not happy about loosing the currency.
@@Cptnbond I have never been very interested in composition of the EU and I wonder how many people could name the 27??? countries that are members - this video has started a steep learning curve for me!
It could be worse. In Mexico you have to check in and check out of every town with the "Port Captain". They are a federal office and the locals hate them for the arbitrary nature of their decisions. These are not professionals (in most cases) but political appointees. It is quite common for them to close a port for (entry or departure) based on an arbitrary judgement on the weather (regardless of size of type of boat) or to deny you authority for departure, based on vague irregularities with your paperwork. Having said thst, it is easy to get a five year temporary import permit (for the boat) and tourist visas fof six months at a time (easily extended). The one country where the bureaucracy Is worse (so old salts tell me) is Brazil.
That's interesting Stephen - When I got to New Zealand they were trying to stop cruising boats checking out unless they had a certain size and type of storm jib - some cruiser eventually took them to an international court and it stopped but they still gave me grief about my jib when I tried to leave...
Mexico sounds fine - I will head that way once I get across the pond..
@@SailingGently I very much doubt that most Mexican Port Captain's would know what a jib is :). By the way (in my humble opinion), the best place on the planet for a refit is Ensanada. Mexican labor rates and you can do a day trip across the border to San Diego (which has a wealth of marine supplies, possibly the best in the US). La Paz is second best (if you want to avoid the long beat against the current) but that is an 800 mile drive through the desert (did it four times). As the whole of the Baja Peninsula is considered border states you will likeky pay no duty on bringing things over (in fact they are unlikely to check your passport). Labor rates are even lower further into Mexico and Central America but it is much, much harder to get supplies in. I changed out all my strrn lifelines with 1" SS 316 tube, plus adding a clever folding swim ladder plus building in two stern seats plus adding bimini and dodger for $1,500 (using US supplied steel i drove down with - you can not get 316 or 304 in Mexico).
@@stephenburnage7687 Stephen thank you for the low down on Ensanada and La Paz.. Really sound like the places to refit - Thank you... Can't wait to be your side of the pond
Would you sail through the red sea again?
Probably - the alternative round the Cape of Good Hope and up the Atlantic is pretty unpleasant but....
The Country’s below are not in the Schengen zone.
Bulgaria
Romania
Croatia
Cyprus
Ireland
United Kingdom
Rodrick hello,
that is a good list - thank you..
Wow, we really have been mucked up by our politicians!
What about Monaco and San Marino ? What options are there in the micro states?
Also is Malta or Cypress the same ?
J
James hi,
It's difficult and I confess I have to look up places individually on Google to know their status and the 18 month rule for a boat does not necessarily apply. I do know that Malta is part of the EU - Cyprus is confused - North - Turkish Cyprus does not appear to have any marinas - and has an 'odd' relationship with the EU. Southern Cyprus is in the EU except for an area around the British air base which appears to be similar to Gibraltar and now not in the EU - difficult
Love your videos Michael. Just though since I've been sailing around Cyprus for the last 10 years I'd add a few things if anyone's interested. In terms of the EU/Brexit issue, Cyprus(Republic of) is an EU country so the same rules apply as other EU countries, but there are very good marinas where you can keep your boat indefinitely, as many brits and internationals do(Everyone here speaks English which makes things very easy). The bases are British Sovereign territory which might solve your 90/180 problem(Akrotiri(UK)) is about a 45 min sail to limassol marina(EU)). As for marinas, Limassol marina is large and new with plenty of space and functionality, and located in the city, so plenty of access to chandleries and shops, etc. You can pull your boat out quite easily as well. Larnaca is an older marina, but functions well, where you can get most things done, and is also in Larnaca city itself which makes it convenient(near the airport with 5 flights to london a day, in non-covid times). Ayia napa marina is about 5km from the actual town, and it very new, so not a great tourist destination, but a very convenient spot for boats, albeit a bit expensive. It's also just about the best place to sail around in the Summer, well protected from the Westerlies that dominate all summer. The next Harbour is Paphos, which is the most hazardous side of the island, where most stop from the nearest Greek island(Kastellorizo)but it's an old harbour and not actually a marina, so limited space, but also located very well with many restaurants and shops walking distance. Hope this helps.
@@cmonkey1011 Chris thank you for all that information... Really useful and informative - Will be so useful to Brit folks in the area... If I do a further Brexit video I will try to incorporate it if you don't mind?
Fair winds
Michael
Bodrum and Marmaris are not so cheap now!
Oh really - what sort of prices?
Thanks for the god advice.
Nikolai hello, so glad you found the video informative
So pleased we are out of the EU... it just shows the madness of the EU where they have removed the key power of who enters your country from the countries themselves. Hopefully other countries will follow suit against this nonsense of what was supposed to be a trading agreement but has turned into a superstate. For me the difficulties are worth it for the higher purpose.
Archie I try to stay out of political things - not my bag but I have liked your post
@@SailingGently :) probably a very wise man! And apologies, I should have thanked you for the update.
So tell me arch 1 e what is the higher purpose, to keep foreigners out of your country? Why? For centuries immigrants have made the U.K. what it is today, why do you wish to change it? Please don’t hope that other countries will follow, the won’t, Europeans are not so xenophobic as you. It doesn’t matter what Europe was and is now, either you agree with a social caring mutual understanding European society or you favour the more I’m all right Jack fascist view of the far right Tories, it’s your choice.
@@teddyboysdontknit810 typical woke overreaction! Controlled immigration is absolutely fine. But the sovereign power should decide on the limits. Not a totalitarian pan European body looking to create a superstate.
Bulgaria
Romania
Croatia
Cyprus
Ireland
The above EU countries are not in the Schengen zone.
Thank you for the list rodrick - very useful
Watching your video I all of a sudden actually am happy to be a European citizen. By Neptune the hassle you have to go through as a British sailor is unbelievable. :(
Ashikaga you are probably right but this problem has been with Americans and other non EU citizens for ever.... It is hassle but I suspect it will get easier when all the 'excitement' of Brexit has passed - maybe!!!
@@SailingGently I do hope so! For the moment I just hope this Covid situation might be resolved one day, my sister lives in the UK on the South Coast and I would like to see her as well as my nephews again. I must say that as a EU citizen I never really understood the 90/180 days system. To be honest I find it kind of ludicrous to limit people's stay, but then again, I also am of the opinion the Nation State as an entity is really rather outdated, even though I also realize that this is not a generally held opinion.
Actually I agree with almost everything you write but I avoid politics on this forum
@@SailingGently My apologies, did not mean to make this political. It was just that when watching your video I could relate to the forms one has to fill out and all other paperwork which seems a tad cumbersome as well as inefficient. ;-)
@@ashikagaProdDesign It is the same all around the world from the USA to Asia to the Red Sea... They all want forms filled out but in a way it sort of becomes part of the ritual and feels normal - It was when the UK was part of the EU it was less... There were still forms at every frontier port and marina...
Croatia is part of EU since 2013. Are you sure EU regulations do not apply there?
Tomasz you are correct - EU regs do apply there - I just got it wrong - sorry
Croatia isn't in Schengen though.
Also.....what I don't understand that we allow 6 months to our EU sailing friends to come to the UK. Why can't they reciprocate. Bad negotiating Mr Johnson.
I suspect with time things will evolve - well I hope so..
Careful, Croatia and Slovenia are part of the EU.
Albania is not, but no marinas there. Montenegro is certainly more welcoming, and they have a few good marinas
Maurizio hello, Yes I think you are absolutely correct but they are not in the Schengen and for some reason it 'appears' the 90 day rule is enforced slightly differently. I think anyone considering keeping there boat there should do some proper research about their rules and regulations first.. thank you for correcting me! ;-)
@@SailingGently Hi Michael, no intention to correct you. Slovenia is part of Schengen, but they only have a few miles of coast, and 2 large Marins in Izola and Poto Rose. Croatia is not part of Schengen yet. I know the country very well and I personally kept a boat there for 5 years(Italian Flag). Marinas ard beautiful but expensive. For a 40ft no less than 5 to 6000 eur/year. And certainly thd rule of 18 months applies.
When I had a Boat there, before they joined EU, it was enough to make an exit , wait as many hours as your boat speed will need to reach 12 miles out and back and make re entry for another 18 months. I have no idea about rules for people holding UK passports. But as a destination to leave a boat it is very good and safe. Marinas ard beautiful and very well sheltered.
Thank you for all youf info, I follos your videos with great interest. Maurizio
@@maurizioferrario1949 That's really interesting thank you... I had heard that . Slovenia was a lovely place but if it is in the EU then the 90/180 day rule will apply to Brits... I need to take a course on what countries are in the EU - clearly guessing is not good enough.. Sorry -but truly thank you for the correction - publishing this video has resulted in a very steep learning curve!
I have heard a lot of others talking very highly of Montenegro. It seems several new marinas are also under construction
@@ronpirie Ron you are right - there have been lots of posts about Montenegro so it is a possible place to leave the boat and visit without the 90/180 clock starting
Just to think once upon a time the sun never set on the empire. Now you can't sail to France without telling someone in authority. The chickens are indeed coming home to roost.
Well, actually, while we were in the EU there was a legal requirement to fill out a form every time you departed from and arrived in the UK. I’m not saying it was the same form that is now needed, but there was always paperwork to be dobd when crossing the channel.
@@kevinnurse9936 what about sailors that live in northern Ireland and sail into eu waters.are they still bound by the 90 day rule..?
I bet they are.. It's your passport that triggers the 90/180 rule not the boat
@@kennymartin3416 common travel area rules come in to play. That’s why people from Irish Republic have no problem travelling g round UK , Channel Islands or Isle of Man.
@@hetty43 just when we were learning to tolerate each other, they separate us . No word on the tons and tons of cocaine flooding into Irish waters, ..but don't pull an atlantic salmon out of the Irish rivers,which by the way are still owned by english landlords...don't get me started...
Is it possible to get to the black sea?
Yes it is but at the moment with the russian/Ukrainian war perhaps not the safest place
@@SailingGently to what depth does normal boat gauge go down to
what about turkish half of cyprus?
No marinas Stephen - little ports but nothing for sail boats
My god, complete and utter madness 🤦♂️
( are we allowed to lick stamps with this Pandemic) 😂
Thank you Cpt 🍷
I think this was the original system pre EU - but that is no excuse - someone posted that they are indeed working on an app..
@@SailingGently captain gently . Happy Easter. 🌎🍷👏💃😇
DONT stop. 😎💪❌
Only if the glue was applied in the eu.after 90 days u have to go back to the same post box and lick a new stamp,place it in the box.hold your little finger up, dance around on one leg reciting.dom dan diddle Dom dan do.then and only then you clocks starts ticking.
My apologies. I have to say. 🤣 I was a little naughty. .
Thank you. Capt . 🌎🍷❌
Captial.!
Jx
@@SailingGently
We ❤️ Gently. 🌎❌
Sounds very authoritarian
Yes it is Ted - although most of these rules also apply to Americans which is perhaps why you see so few in the Meditteranean..
It looks like the 90/180 rule may not apply if you have a spouse who is a EU citizen.
Not certain Richard. Certainly it probably allows you to stay 365 in the country of your spouse but whether that entitles you to spend the same in the rest of the EU I am not so sure...
I can spend 365 in France as I am a resident but only 90/180 in the rest of the EU
but - hey - who knows - sailors divorce to marry eu citizens will be quite a headline!
@@SailingGently been looking into it is so vague but I'm waiting on confirmation but looks like you can travel with a spouse to a eu country for 90 days and after that either leave or apply for residence but looks like the 90/180 does not count while traveling with EU spouse.
www.citizensadvice.org.es/schengen-90-days-in-180-day-ruling-for-non-eu-spouses-of-eu-citizens/ posted 2 days ago.
Richard that is interesting - thank you for posting - However marriage is quite restrictive of freedom of movement if you get it wrong... I'm told!
@@SailingGently The way it reads so long as your traveling together it should be fine but this is the EU where one hand doesn't know what the other hand is doing I have sent a email to the EU contact centre to try and get clarification as this would put my plans to cruise the med with my wife and son in question.
But surely it was a majority decision to leave the EU? 😢
Yes it was and I supported the decision but as 48% voted to remain it is still a political football
Certainly my new “go to “ sailing channel 😊
Great guides !
Please don’t start putting thumbnails of yourself wearing a bikini as click bait...
Oh dear... I was only waiting for spring to get the speeds out!
Update on email to europe contact center
Thank you for contacting the Europe Direct Contact Centre.
A citizen of the UK does not, in principle, require a visa to travel for a short stay of no more than 90 days within any 180-day period in the Schengen area.
The fact that you reside with your Italian wife is, on its own, not sufficient to waive the limits of the 90/180-days rule if you intend to travel on your own to a Schengen Member State.
However, if you are travelling with your wife to a Schengen country, or joining her in a Schengen country, the 90/180 days limitation does not apply. Accordingly, any stays in the Schengen area together with her will not be taken into account when you travel again on your own. Please be aware, however, that in this case you might need to have documentation to show when you were travelling with her and when you were not.
Thank you for that Richard... At the moment there is a real problem for Schengen countries with UK nationals resident in a Schengen country - (post covid) they have no way of regulating us driving and staying in another Schengen country for as long as we like - I suspect the problem for the EU authorities is that there are in real terms very few of us...
@@SailingGently All I care is it dosn't stop my dreams of sailing round the Med as long as I like, My other recourse for us is getting my wife Italian citizenship and that would negate any issues for us anyway.
@@sorehammer I think your wife's citizenship is the way to go... In a couple of years time I can apply for French dual citizenship and then all my Med problems vanish along with spending time in my Spanish apartment.. It's all in pre planning - like a lot of things - Your research is excellent
I generally like your videos a lot, but need to correct your terminology here. You're confusing EU and Schengen area, and they're very different.
For example, you may enter Ireland - an EU country - with a British passport and stay indefinitely. (Americans would be limited though.)
France, Spain, Greece, Italy are all in the Schengen Area, and your explanation of the 90/180 rule is pretty much correct. It's a rolling total, so you can do month-in, month-out if you like.
Gibraltar, I believe, is joining Schengen although it's not part of the EU, so any time there is counted towards your 90 days.
Cyprus (south) is not currently part of the Schengen zone, and has its own rules, which I believe is also 90/180, but not linked to your 90/180 in Schengen. So you can spend 90 days in Greece (Schengen) then sail to Cyprus and spend 90 days there, then go back to Greece or any other Schengen country for another 90 days.
North Cyprus is not a recognised country and I don't know what the current rules are, but I've been there and liked it. Not sure how long you can stay or how the folks in the south would react if you sail in from the north, but there is the potential for trouble there.
I lived in Turkey for a while, lovely place and the initial visa was issued online for just one month. Extensions were easy enough but time-consuming and stressful if you've never done it before. Had to go to the immigration office with proof I was supporting myself with money from overseas, so keep your ATM receipts!
I can't remember which of the Balkan countries are Schengen and/or EU members, but there are several more options there.
Summary, I think if you're not determined to spend more than three months in one country at a time, you can quite easily meander around the med for years without having to worry excessively about the impact of Brexit.
That said Brexit is still an abomination!
Also, for you specifically, they shouldn't stamp your passport when you enter France because you're a resident. And then you're free to wander around the Schengen zone without anyone checking your papers, just like EU citizens. I don't see any barrier to you going north for as long as you like.
Yes Chris I think you are probably right although I think the 90/180 day rule is for all the EU but could of course be wrong... Part of the problem at the moment is that border police individually may not be up to speed on it all. I flew in to Paris from Martinique which is a French department and part of the EU, to Paris where the border policeman wanted to stamp my passport in spite of my presenting my Carte de Sejour. It took some time to persuade him not to - he complained that I should have had an exit visa from France to Martinique - not correct as my CdS allows freedom of movement throughout all France... and because of the error of his colleague he agreed not to give me an entry visa which would have started the EU clock ticking...
@@SailingGently Yup, I've had plenty of run-ins with border guards that don't know what they're doing. At one point I resorted to searching on the europa.eu website and eventually downloading a copy of the official border guards handbook. My wife's an immigrant, travelling with me under freedom of movement rules as a spouse, and we meet a lot of people who just don't want to follow the rules if they can get away with it. Having summaries of Court of Justice rulings in my back pocket also helped, although not really applicable for you at this point.
There's definitely a lot of scope for immigration officials to creatively interpret the rules for Brits coming into Europe. Everything's a bit unclear right now, and a lot of governments have unofficial policies of making sure nobody can claim Brexit has been beneficial, so I generally travel on the assumption that things are going to wrong and someone's going to make life hard at some point.
It's a total nightmare, and I wasn't even allowed to vote in the referendum because I don't live there, so it's probably better to change the subject before I start to rant!
@@chrisgraythereal All policemen have to learn the law and promotion depends on passing legal knowledge exams. With bottom of the heap Border Police who are looking at passports for hundreds of countries it has to be difficult... I wonder, except at channel ports, how many Brits they encounter with Carte de Sejours, along with passports from all those other non EU countries with different relationships with the EU... Clever you to carry a copy of the legislation...
@@SailingGently "Clever you to carry a copy of the legislation..." They hate it when I do that! I have no sympathy for them, they have extraordinary power and are much less accountable than regular police, and an obligation to know how to do their jobs. If they can't recognise a Carte de Sejour... well, they can, they're just being awkward because of your passport. Anyway, you're home now and I've just got another month on my visa here in Bali, so it's all good. :)
Don't worry. It is only a matter of time before the EU breaks up and individual states will start drafting their own rules on how to attract foreign visitors and yachts :).
I suspect you are right and if Marine Le Pen gets in next year France will be the next one out of the EU and almost all of our problems vanish - Spain would follow...
Agreed. EU is certainly on the cusp of failure.
@@SailingGently My money is on Denmark being next. Old British ally. They also do not have the complication of needing a new currency (they followed our lead and kept the kroner).
@@stephenburnage7687
But they will probably remain within Schengen
@@SailingGently
But out of European Union might not mean out of Schengen?
It’s all turning very confusing for my already dottled brain ...
Hi Michael, I thought you might be interested in this email I got from Boulogne on whether or not it is a port of entry. Seems actually there is a grey area where they can send entry documents to Calais - "Bonjour Monsieur O’Brien,
Merci pour votre mail, veuillez nous excusez nous pour le retard de la réponse.
Vous pouvez parfaitement arriver au port de plaisance de Boulogne, bien que celui-ci ne soit pas un port « d’entrée ».
A votre arrivée, nous vous ferons remplir une déclaration de passage (vous la trouverez en pièce jointe si vous le voulez).
Nous enverrons ce document directement à l’unité de contrôle transfrontalière de Calais.
Nous ne savons pas si les britanniques sont autorisés à venir en France pour le moment….en tout cas dès que possible c’est avec plaisir que nous vous accueillerons.
A bientôt,
L’équipe du port"
Chris hello,
Yes that is my marina and where I got my basic information from.. They have received one letter from Calais Douane and a copy of the form I posted on www.michaelbriant.com. I think, think, that actually the form is for vessels that have cleared into France (EU) at a point of entry and are then visiting other ports - but I could be totally wrong - I am not sure anybody knows exactly how it will all work in practice until we start visiting...
@@SailingGently I asked my email to them explicitly whether I would have to sail to Calais first and the answer seems to suggest not but it is not 100% clear. I know someone who used to work on border and his view is that the French will want to be pragmatic in practise because the last thing they will want is lots of British yachts coming into port of Calais, getting in the way of ferries, waiting to get their passports stamped, potentially on mooring bouys if they miss the tide. Perhaps the Port of Boulogne's response reflects that logic.
Posting a physical form in Britain proves that you were were physically in the country. If it was all on the Internet, the whole thing could be just another Internet fraud.
Camden hello, you could be right - I could get my sister to post things for me in the UK whilst I am in France... If I buy things in the future from a UK site I could have them sent to her and pick them up next time I'm over - unpack and avoid French duty on them returning to France - but would never ever do that! Although it would be legal up to I think 300 euro...
At 6.0 u mentioned u cd escape the 180 EU rule by leaving Gibraltar in yr boat & returning in 24 hrs. Gib is NOT IN the EU - it's British. U an leave yr boat there according to British law - not EU law.
Second - u don't have to leave France and get to England to buy a stamp to send a letter to a British gov agency. France has post offices.
Good points! Thank you
@@SailingGently Well - thanx for yr reply. I find yr videos very interesting. I've sailed my own boats to some of the places you mention - Spain, Portugal, Gib, Cartagena, Ibiza, Madeira, Cowes, Dartmouth, Tenerrife, Azores, so I find it especialy interesting to see these places again thro someone else's eyes. As for EU rules that make it difficult for British people to sail in EU waters, I baffle my brain trying to think of reasons why the EU wants to deprive the people who work in EU marinas of a livelihood. Is there any solid reason u know of for their resistance to 'foreign' boats & boat tourists ?
Except that there will be plenty of cheating
I'm sure Richard - You cannot win them all -
You're pretty skewed in your view , try to enter the USA for 6 months :P
You are right - but the USA is not on our doorstep and is not a natural and traditional cruising ground for Brits
It's called a B2 Visa and the US actually gives them out quite liberally, at least to people from first world countries. It's much easier to get a 6 month visa for the US than for the Schengen zone.
Why you Brits thought you’d be better off battling the EU fat cats from the outside instead of within, is beyond me…..
At least we are not paying them now - pros and cons
@@SailingGently ah, that’s why they’re being so vindictive, a bit like a wife who didn’t get what she wanted in the divorce. From an Australian perspective, nothing changes, may even get better in the uk for us.