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Anchor chain broke Lost my anchor!
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- A few weeks ago I lost my anchor on the way to Guadeloupe. Ended up in Prince Rupert Bay Dominica at sunset with no mooring bouys or maria options available to me.....
wonderful storytelling and a lifetime of knowledge. Really appreciate this opportunity to learn. Thanks Michael.
That's very kind of you Stephen. Glad you found it useful
Enjoyed your anchoring story. Yes the chain coming in over the bow roller without the anchor must have been quite the surprise 😂 Sailing Fair Isle last week had an excellent anchoring aid. Basically a wi fi anchor buoy. So the anchor alarm is set both on your phone as usual with swing but the anchor buoy one sits right over the anchor so you can tell if it’s dragging if moves more than a metre. I got it on my list. Thanks again Michael keep them coming
That's interesting Tom! Yes it was not a good feeling near sunset! I use the alarm on my plotter and that combines with shallow water alarm as without the hearing aids...
I refitted a recently bought boat over the last 14 months in Langkawi .. I was also confronted with a chain decision. My boat had 80 metres of chain but half of it was badly rusted.. I looked very carefully at adding 40 new metres using a chain connector. In the end I felt I didn’t want to trust my boat, or indeed my safety, to what looked like a pretty flimsy fitting .. .. I bit the bullet and forked out for 80 new metres. .. I also love your comments on what us ‘three score years and tenners ’ can still do .. like you, I just throw money at getting someone else to do what my younger self would have done without a thought .. thanks for the video, always good to hear from you.
just did the same thing, peace of mind: Break Out Another Thousand
Thanks for the comment Andy. I'm sure you did the right thing... Buying all new... Its frightening that we have no idea of the quality of marine fittings we are putting in our boats! Where you are, like the Caribbean, anchoring is everything! There are no advantages in the aging process as far as I can see....
@@SailingGently getting old beats the heck out of the alternative is how I view it.
@@AndrewMoizer 🤣🤣🤣 well said. Plus a Sailboat to Sail the Tropics in definitely helps ease the aches and pains, plus with lots of anchoring, a Firm Egg box mattress topper doesn’t just rejuvenate our veins and arteries, the Squeezing of the Lymph gland system helps massively as well, one of my visiting Nurses has just been to a lecture on the importance of them being regularly massaged. No wonder I was improving so fast on my last Sailboat, which had a firm egg box mattress topper, it really makes sense now. Best Wishes. Bob.👍🌟🌟🌟🏴🇬🇧❤️⛵️
You are a good story teller. Thank you for posting.
Thank you for watching it Tim
Thanks for sharing. These are the things where the seasoned sailor is giving the much needed advice to the novice .
Glad it was helpful! Frankly it was my own silly fault!
@@SailingGently The smart guy learns from another mans mistake and shares his own mistakes so others can learn from it . 😁😁😁😁
Guess how wee discovered the world
I have followed you on and off for some years but haven’t seen your channel for a while. I was really pleased to see this video concerning your anchor issue in Dominica. Not because of the problem you had but because I have been considering a chain extension as you did - to reduce costs. I bought my catamaran from Sunsail. It supposedly came with 70 meters of chain. But due to the difficulty of checking I decided to believe them. In August last year I had the anchor re - galvanised in Trinidad and while the anchor was away at the workshop I measured and marked the chain as the original paint was fading. To my horror I discovered that we only had 55 meters of chain and since then I have been considering how to extend it to 100 meters or so. I had been looking at chain joiners but after seeing your video I think I will go for new chain. Many thanks for your illuminating video. Stay safe. John & Sandra SV Knot So Bad
John thank you for that. One of the reasons I made the anchor video was to make others aware of the potential problem with theses chain joiners and I'm delighted to see it was helpful to you
We are in the first stages of replacing our anchor and possibly our chain. Thank you for sharing your experience so we do not make the same error. Throwing money at our mistakes is a stage of life we are looking at but haven't fully accepted yet. Diving 6 meters for a lost anchor might make us accept it as well. Fair winds and following seas to you.
When I made the video it was in my mind that others could benefit. And I will never use a chain link again...
Thank you Michael you are a wonderful story teller and I am glad you are safe. Look forward to your next video. Will you return in November and spend the summer in France?
I'm back in France now with the return ticket to Martinique in October! Glad you enjoyed the video
When sailing in the Bahamas we always attached a float to our anchor, two fold advantage it marked exactly where my anchor was located and could be employed as a light tripline if needed. To me it was always More important it let others know exactly where my anchor was. If we ever had an incident we could always return to the precise location to retrieve. Deploying the float and retrieving was not that difficult once you are accustomed to it. Cheers
Very good and sensible practice... My excuse is single handed I try to keep everything as simple as possible as being at the helm and the foredeck at the same time is difficult. Thank you for the information
Excellent video. Great lessons. Thank you.
Thank you Warren. Glad it was interesting
Happened to me. Luckily I had a trip line attached to the head of the anchor. Also I always keep a very strong magnet on a line to find things like lost anchors
Sounds like a very organised system which resulted in you recovering your anchor. Well done!
I had a similar issue with a cheap swivel. It parted as the anchor entered the bow roller and deep six’d the anchor. Fortunately I had a tripping line and buoy attached to the anchor and was able to retrieve it. Rest assured the new swivel was a known and trusted brand.
Yes Keith, I've looked at swivels and decided I didn't trust them but did trust the chain joiner! You were lucky to be using a tripping line!
@@SailingGently come come! That is *not* luck! :-)
I decided to dig to the bottom of my pockets and get 100m of new chain onboard. We had 40m of old chain in the locker and it was just a bit limiting on depth. So I'm looking forward to sleeping better on the next sail. Great advice, I debated the chain link up but it didn't feel right. Sail safe, Ocean and the family at Into the Blue Crew 💙 x
Clearly you were right about not going for the link option... Wish I had had your wisdom!
Pleased to hear that you got yourself sorted so quickly.
Thank you Greg. It was not a bundle of fun!
Good you found your spare anchor. I bought a Delta also some weeks ago. Viewed a lot of anchor tests and finally thougt the Delta will be "good enough". Fits to my bow and also the price was ok.
Yes, I feel the same about the Delta. Manufactured by Lewmar and the 3 times I've deployed it so far it's dug in easily and held the boat so.....
@@selmatrudellisailing1785 ThegenuineLewmar Delta to me is as good as a Rocna without the hoop. The Lewmar Delta is clearly made from really good Steel that has been properly hardened and Tenperedand I never had a problem with mine setting andholding, and I had a pleasant bonus surprise when, after being hit on the Starboard sisw byareally extreme Tornado, the voat was pushed so far over to Port, that the VHF aerial on the top of the Mast was buried under water , and with the boat on the brink of capsizing and water at the edge of the Cockpit, the boat was saved by the anchor pushing out sideways, and with the Anchor Alarm screaming, she popped upright, and engine started, I was able to fly the Anchor between the boats behind me into clear water, and the Anchor set immediately. We were hit by several Tornadoes the rest of the night, none as bad as that first one, and the boat didn't budge. That's why I'm sticking with an Oversized Genuine Lewmar Delta as the Main Anchor on my next Sailboat tbh. I had never thought about having an Anchor that can Fail, just when you need it to Fail prior. I had a lot of food for thought after that Tornado Storm night tbh. 🤔 Best Wishes. Bob in Wales. 👍🌟🌟🌟❤️
Primary school: A chain is only as strong as its weakest link.
Life: crikey this stuff's expensive.
LoL.
Yep. Big mistake on my part using a product that is bound to be weaker than the chain either side of it. Expensive 'childish' mistake.
I'm glad you got things sorted, and this is a good reminder to check your gear and equipment. I haven't had the good fortune to do much cruising for a long time now, but I always had a backup anchor ready to go.
Your right Andrew. Trouble was that the link was down in the chain locker buried under all the new stuff! But that's not really an excuse... Wish my anchor had been ready to go rather than buried deep in the locker!
@@SailingGently Another case of “Experience is what you get right after you needed it”! On the flip side, sharing your experience will help others decide on what actions they might take to mitigate similar issues on their boats. I am thinking that given that this has never happened to you before in all the cruising you’ve done perhaps periodic inspections and having the spare anchor better accessible would be more than sufficient. Thanks again for all the knowledge and experience you share in your videos and books.
Thank you Andrew
I don't know much about anchoring or sex Michael, but I do know I enjoy your videos.
Both can be a pleasure when it goes well Rob and I'm delighted you enjoyed the Video. Thank you
Lucky, good to see you survived.
Thank You Kev. Yes it happened at the best possible time..
CQR has been my go to for 25 years….dependable …..never dragged….well maybe once or twice…..bot always reset on its own
I totally agree Terry... However I ended up with a new Delta as nobody had CQRs in stock in Guadeloupe!
Besides the obvious lesson learned, there’s another one in this video: stow your backup or kedge anchor where you can get at it quickly … not the bottom of a locker/lazarette. 🧐
When I was world cruising I had 2 anchors on the bows.. I installed a 2nd bow roller to accommodate this. I felt that for 'local sailing' around the Caribbean that was a bit overkill .... Mmmm
Crikey I say you were bloody lucky it broke when it did and not when you were in the land of nod or sipping a pinacolada ashore! Thanks for sharing the experience those links do look fun but I think I'll avoid them, sound advise hard won.
Absolutely agree. If it was going to break then right in front of my eyes was the best possible time! I was lucky!
That sounded super stressful - thanks for sharing !
It was a bit stressful. Certainly concentrated the mind!
Another interesting video. Many thanks
Glad it was interesting! Thanks for watching
Glad your adventure didn’t have a very bad ending. I saw on another sailing vlogger, Sailing fair isle, an interesting vlog on the different steels used in chains and anchors. Fresh water, salt water, water temperatures, water salinity all matter.
I got away with it despite a pretty stressful half hour! Part of the problem is what is available where you are... I just walked into the chandlers and purchased one of the only 8mm connectors they had!
Ouch on the loss of the Anchor Michael. Despite nothing any memorable problems with CQR Anchors, I was always a Bot way of them due to the hinge. So due to great reputation, for my last Sailboat I ordered a Rocna for the end of very high Quality Triple Galvanised Chain. However at the time there were serious delay of delivery issues with Rocna, and my USA Visa was rapidly running out, so Peter the Boatyard owner recommended a Genuine Lewmar Delta Anchors, saying they had never had a problem with them, and he could have delivery thefollowing day. So I ordered a Nice oversized one. To say I was delighted with it, would be a serious understatement tbh, and one is going to ne the main Anchor on my next Sailboat. I think yours will grow on you frankly. Best Wishes. Bob in Wales. 🤔🌟🌟🌟👍❤️
Yes my first instinct was to get a Rocna but non availability and my wallet made the Delta a good option... It has done well in french magazine anchor comparison tests! So far, like you I'm impressed with it!
Quality of products is a big issue, nowadays. I am planning on crossing the Atlantic, next year, so thinking it is time to replace my fixed rigging. In talking to the major US rigging suppliers, however, they themselves have become uncertain on the quality of the materials they can themselves source.
Yes I think your right Stephen... Very difficult to know if the basic materials are good quality or not... I have had brand new swages on stainless standing rigging fail!
Great story... This must have been right after I saw you in St. Pierre. I have 70m of chain and a 30kg Bruce. I rarely drag in the Caribbean... I never dive to check the anchor either. I do use an anchor alarm app on my phone. Its very handy. I would like to upgrade to 100m chain before I cross the Pacific... I have been shopping at USHip as well. They were nice folks and set me up with a new, solid core, Stand Up Paddle Board. That is my preferred method of transportation to take my dog on walks...
Enjoy your summer!
You were the British boat Joel? that was already anchored when I got in? My plotter has a good loud, anchor alarm on it but I intend upgrading the speaker! I'm a bit deaf!
I had about 70 metres of 8mm chain in the Pacific but that was in a Moody 36.. Once I upgraded to 10mm in New Zealand I never dragged!
@@SailingGently I am a USA flagged Lagoon 420. I was off your Port side for a few hours as we sailed North into St Pierre….
Thanks for sharing. I have a new 50m length and a Rocna 25kg. Also 30m old chain that I intended splicing with a similar thing. I will use 2 Shackles instead, if need to pay out more than 50m chain.
Glad the video was sort of helpful... There are now shackles around which have pins that screw in flush to the side, but....
I remember watching sailing Catalpa where they used a chain link for years with no problems. They even had their boat dragged into by a large commercial vessel while on anchor and that broke their cleats, windlass and stantions, but the chain with the link held. It's certainly better to not risk it if you can.
SVPanope now has extensive tests of anchors and the consensus is that modern scoop anchors with narrow blades and tips like the Viking, Mantus M1 (update with strengthend tip), Wedge, Rocna MKII, are the best performers in diverse seabeds. While the plough like Excel, CQR, Delta and inverted plough like Mantus M2, Rocna Vulcan, Spade perform okay in everything other than soft mud because of the thick nose reducing penetration depth.
Matching the weight and surface area of the anchor to the windage and not the displacement is also more important than catenary. Most low windage boats are fine on any anchor, but put a large windage catamaran on a plough and it will drag in soft mud, just watch Sailing Ruby Rose with their Excel. :)
Indeed I used a chain link successfully for 5 or six years in the Mediterranean, Caribbean and South Pacific anchoring on a daily basis. The one I purchased in Northern France failed after 18 months and very little use... My experience is plough type anchors work best but this discussion is like politics, sex, religion etc... Folks have sincerely held deep beliefs and all a bit different!
I did a lot of research on this contentious topic a few years ago and ended up buying a Spade anchor (was going to get a Rocna). A complete nightmare to stow on the bow roller but really good (but quite expensive) anchor and really happy with it.
Yes Mike, I think there are several good anchor options around and all the plough type seem to work best... Spade looks similar to a Delta although I've never tried one
Said in 1940's detective show voice over style "There are eight million anchoring stories in the naked ocean. This has been one of them ..."
Late afternoon sunshine, wine and Sailing Gently - perfect.
I lost an anchor in Sydney Harbour - the steering chain failed, but I managed to let off the headsail and let my boat round up and raced forward to dump the anchor - a tense few moments as she drifted toward the rocks of Fort Denison, then a sudden jolt and she held fast a boats length from disaster.
A friendly fellow yachtie saw my predicament and rafted up to motor me into the marina - all I had to do was raise the anchor (by hand in those days) - it came up a few feet and stopped dead - bugger - I tailed it around a winch and began to crank - the more I cranked the lower the bow went - I went forward to see what was what and - double bugger ... I'd picked up the thrice accursed submarine cable that went from the North Shore to the South Shore - rather than risking blacking out half of Sydney and the umbrage that would follow, I was forced to cut free and lose the anchor.
It's a cruel world.
Nicely put! I would hate to pull up a power cable! Anchors, or the lack of them, can be pretty scary!
Sir! I’m not big fan of the Delta, but regardless, you don’t have any mousing wire between on the shackle that holds the anchor on! Craziness - are you asking to go adrift? You really really really really really really really really really need to mouse the shackle with some stainless steel wire!
I’m sure you’ve got way more ceiling experience than I, but those shackle pins have to moused, since there emerged in saltwater pretty much guaranteed to have some corrosion and then the pin will just fall off…
Rory you are of course 100% correct however none of the chandlers had seizing wire in stock... Several pointed me to a shackle which screwed in with no pultruding part. But they scared me as you couldn't easily see if the pin was coming loose. Couldn't find seizing wire in Le Marin either so will bring some back from Europe!
Cable ties make a suitable temporary alternative to monel mousing wire, and I have even used electrical wire in the past.
I enjoyed your video and ironically I recommended to a friend last week on Beneteau to not join chain to his 30m but buy 60m of chain, we fitted it 3 days ago.
Ray Hi, Yes I thought about using cable ties but in the end just sweated up the pin very tight. When I get back to Europe I will get some seizing wire.. Well done on the new chain.
Never a dull moment.
All good fun....
Look at it this way: you were lucky, it happened while you were watching it. Could have been a very different story. All the best .
Oh you are absolutely right! Couldn't have happened at a better time! Well maybe not so close to sunset!
A continuous length of chain is best, but if you feel the need to buy a connector link. Buy from reputable manufacturer with published specs, such as Crosby.
Thank you for the excellent advice and information
Nightmare situation at the end of a long day, tired and getting dark with few options. Lucky you remembered you had your Danforth anchor and found it!
I have a Carter 33, I think your Golden Haze is pretty much the same length at 10m. Not sure about weight though. I always carry two anchors 30kg CQRs with 60m of chain, can't remember whether 8 or 10mm, sorry, and 40m of pretty stout anchor line. The second CQR is not buried in a stern locker, but ready to grab should it be needed. If you anchor frequently you may need access to your second anchor pretty quickly if things start to go wrong. To me an anchor is up there with a functioning radio, life raft or flares so you want to be able to get hold of it quickly if you need it. I think I also have an older 20kg Admiralty anchor as well although from a previous smaller boat. I mostly use the CQRs. I did have kedge possibly a Darnforth but don't know what happened to that. Of course a second anchor is very useful when you need a stern anchor as well.
Glad your situation was not more serious as you suggested it could have been, so more of a warning or wake up call to get your anchor situation sorted out. In your case and the size of your boat I would definitely go for 60m of un-joined chain minimum and another 40m of anchor line. Not sure myself whether this is over kill or not enough, but it works for me.
I have similar worries over chain links with motorcycle chains as a link failing while you are riding could have similar catastrophic consequences as with potentially losing your boat and your life if your anchor chain fails or anchor breaks or drags. I wouldn't use a link in anchor chain as your experience confirms. I know buying a whole new chain is expensive but what price can you put on safety especially where anchors and chains are concerned? Maybe never anchoring is the safest option? Always go to an anchorage where you know there are buoys or indeed pontoons or a marina? But you still need an anchor on a boat it would be highly irresponsible not to have one or indeed one and chain that was in full working order.
Could have implications in any insurance claim as well especially if a boat was lost.
As nice as keeping a boat in the Caribbean likely is, the thought of it being totalled by a hurricane would cause me a few sleepless nights which I don't think I could live with. Sorry to be negative.
Anyway looking forward to your next instalment.
ATB.
Alex your right. When I was world cruising I had much the setup you describe even to the point of having a 2nd bow roller fitted in my Moody 36. There were 5 different anchors dotted around the boat... Out in the Caribbean the anchorages are well known. The islands themselves give shelter from the trade winds so finding a good spot is normally not that difficult!
Hope your cruise goes well... I think a 2nd anchor stowed away somewhere is a bit like a life raft.. You will never ever use it but if you do....
Jason on Inatosha got caught in hurricane Beryl at Carriacou. Inatosha was holed and dismasted but miraculously stayed afloat in the 100+kts winds. They are safely in Grenada now.
Thank you for the news on Jason and Inatosha! That is dreadful. I knew he was going south but didn't think he had left Martinique yet. So sorry. He's a brilliant boat builder and she's a strong boat and I'm glad the boat survived and Jason is OK... I think I've got his what'sapp... 100knots are unbelievably powerful! Thank you for letting me know.
West Marine sell two types of such link. There is the SeaFit (made in the US), with a MWL rating of 2,750 lbs for the 3/8" (10 mm), which is half of the 5,400 lb MWL rating for the equivalent G4 chain. That I use and trust. They also sell a Chinese made equivalent (with questionable rating), which I would never have on my boat.
That's interesting Stephen. The trouble is where I had the boat in northern France there was only one chandlers and it never occurred to me that they were selling cheap Chinese knockoffs! Mid you it's not a road I would go down again!
Perhaps if you rely upon such a link, it'd be good to swap it for a new one each year. I have one too and after listening to your woes, I shall replace it for a new link straight away! I use a Spade, which I have found to be reliable in sand. It has a removable shank, which allows me to stow it in the bow locker.
I think it depends on the quality of the link... On a previous boat I sailed thousands of miles, anchoring everyday, with a link in the chain and never had an issue... Trouble is how do you know if its good quality or not?
I had only one chain and warp but three anchors, delta, bruce and fortress. At a second hand market in St Martin (TOBY) I bought 50m chain and 50m warp for 70 euro as back up on the bruce. Recently i was offered 20m chain and 20m warp for 20 euro which I took for the fortress as a stern anchor. I have heard to often of lost anchors. Prout 34 Event like you used to have.
Sounds really good Simon - In a blow, out in the Caribbean, I think you need all the help you can get! It sounds like an excellent setup
The cqr is the best of what you listed, but I use an oversize Rocna. I keep my old cqr and an oversize Danforth as extra backups, hopefully never to be used. I do have wharp spliced on but wish it was all chain (with a snubber) and to be fixed soon. 100 feet of chain should be good though. Thanks.
Sounds good Jeff. I must admit warp is not attractive but in case of deep anchorage is a lightweight solution!
I knew there was a reason why I carry a second (spare) anchor..
Yes Stephen. Its a good idea to have a 'spare' as they do in the Monarchy!
Or better, three other anchors, not spares!
@markthomasson5077 i have never been comfortable deploying more than one anchor at a time (other than a Stern anchor) as they tend to wrap around each other.
@@stephenburnage7687 second anchor at the stern, ready to heave over if all else fails.
Also, if singlehanded and no electric windlass, anchor off stern the lead to bow.
The Pirate and one of the best marina Carrefour supermarkets.
Your right Jon. I am seriously considering re-locating Golden Haze there!
I’m not a sailor, never sailed, would like to. But, that said, your anchor story is a good reminder .. don’t go cheap … literally every time I’ve ever chosen the cheaper option I’ve come to regrets it .i had a house built and they used cheap Chinese dipped galvanized nails to secure the roof tiles … predictable outcome. (I’m not. Builder and had no idea about different electro galvanizing vs dipped .. )
Yes, boat equipment is very vulnerable being in wet salty conditions all the time.. And of course all the stuff is not cheap! Bad luck with the roof. You would expect professionals to know what's best... rather than what's cheapest!
@SailingGently A quality link should have a MWL or SWL rating and (preferably) a certificate that proves it. Otherwise it's origins are questionable.
I have 30metres of 10mm chain attached to 30 of heavy nylon warp on a 20 lbs CQR, this is an upgrade from the ground tackle my boat had when I bought her 18 months ago when she had similar but 8mm rather than 10. My boat is a 24 ft motor sailer with a gross tonnage of around 5 tons so I hope the new heavier chain will keep me where I want in most conditions. I have yet to really test the set up but as we embark on a six week cruise along the South Coast of the UK in a few days, Im hoping I have everything covered, though I know I don't have a second anchor of equal weight/ size to my CQR and I hope I don't need one, but I do have a small grapple that would give me about 30 seconds of hope should we lose our main anchor before we hit the rocks. Time for some thinking I think
I'm sure your right Mike. Its the weight of the chain that keeps the 'pick' dug in. My spare Danforth was a size or two smaller than the CQR that I lost but it certainly filled the gap and was far better than nothing
Beryl was not bad in Le Marin, gusts up to 40 knots but nothing major. Your boat will be fine, I could even have a look.
Also thought about the chain connectors but skipped the idea - you just create a weak link that you bet your life on.
Yes, I have a camera in the boat and could see there was not too much movement during Beryl... Its the next one that worries me or the one after that although Le Marin is well constructed and sheltered nothing can withstand 200 MPH which is what Beryl peaked at on it's way to Jamaica. I've been out in 60 and that was impressive but 200!!!!!!
I think a CQR anchor is due for replacement anyway. Get a Rocna! Bill
Happily for my wallet there were no Rocna for sale in Guadeloupe! I would have got another CQR in a blink but the Delta I've ended up with seems pretty good - so far
I carry a grapnel , Not to big but for this very chance of losing the pick .. Happened twice in my travels & at 77 not keen on diving now & still with my CQR , oversized & plenty of chain .
That sounds very sensible Bill. I'm delighted how many endorsements I'm getting for CQRs! Thank you..
Lovely : )
Glad you liked it!
@@SailingGently I am glad that you told about that "funny anker" from the "old days" that you used IN "ROCKY CONDITIONS" . Do you have more about that SIr?
@@perfstaas7188 Because I just do local Caribbean cruising into known anchorages I don't see a need for a fisherman's, but now and then around the world it was invaluable
@@SailingGently I ment films of it Sir. Frpm from before you started sailing in Caribbia : )
Perhaps a call to Jimmy Green chandlers for some advice/suggestions???
Like anything in life chain, shackles etc come in many different qualities.
Good information...good decisions.
Best of luck.
Thank you Patrick. I rate Jimmy Green Marine very highly as well although I've got a feeling they have been taken over by Force4????
@SailingGently I hadn't heard that but I Lound this extract on line just now.....
About us
Jimmy Green Marine Chandlery
We specialise in bespoke ropes and rigging, anchoring and mooring solutions, complementary deck hardware and safety equipment, selling online in the UK and all around the world.
We are a family business, owned and run by the Green family, based in the coastal village of Beer in East Devon.
Rocna is worth the money 100%
I had a Delta and a Kobra and both were unreliable. Rocna makes me sleep much better on anchor.
why? concrete reasons, please.
Personally I think it's the weight and quantity of chain that mainly makes the difference but anchors are like politics, sex and religion... different strokes for different folks!
@@davidressler4292 Because I was never sure if they're set. In some anchorages ther was never a definite feeling that it's set if you reverse on them. With Rocna there's a positive engagement every time. I'm not saying other anchors are useless, I'm just saying that Rocna is superior. I'm running 75 meters of chain, no rode.
Thank you sharing your salutary lesson. Shit happens as they say but I suspect we have all been there one way or the other.
As a lifelong tight arse, I tend to err on the side of ‘cheaping out’ and invariably end up buying twice.
But what is the lesson learned and how to avoid a repeat - ‘without selling the farm’?
It is a problem Norman deciding just how much money to throw at potential problems! I think sometimes you just get unlucky and sometimes lucky... fickle finger of fate!
My anchor story. Sv Hulda is cutter rigged, built from scratch by myself. RUST FREE steel, 42 feet, displ. 17 tons fully loaded. My home ground is southern part Norway, west part of Sweden, east Denmark, north Germany. The Pond, as we call it. Main anchor is 32 kg Bruce copy. Chain is 10 mm galv steel with breaking load 7 tons. First length is 50 metres, linked with a link piece like the one that failed on you, to another 48 metres of similar chain as first mentioned. I have never trusted that damned link. It has never been under load in contact with the windlass. I allways hook on a snubber downstream that bloody link. If I anchor in deep water. This spring we had a two month sail, and the link never came out on deck. On anchoring, I pay out 4 times the depth. Back up with 1800 rpm to dig in the anchor. My prop. is 21 inch fixed 3 blade powered by 100 hp motor. My backing up is like gale force wind. Seabeds are mud, clay, sand, gravel. Never failed. Never. If you have problems with chain clogging up in the locker, being a rich man, go for high grade stainless steel chain. It packs much better than galv. chain. Constructing my own boat, I was aware of the chain issue from the very start. My chain box has a suitable distance from the deck for 100 m galv chain, and is not a part of the hull. Placed in front of a watertight bulkhead.
What type of windlass do you have? The only reason for using this type if link is if your windlass is designed for chain + rode (ie contains a stripper to hold the rode against the gypsy). If it is an all chain type of windlass, you potentially may have the room to fit an industrial rated "D" shackle.
Sounds like a lovely boat and you have some good gear... Your lucky to have the boat building skills to be able to make such a sensible design around the chain locker... But the 'link' If it never goes in the water that's fine and if it's high quality then probably OK.. I'm certainly not rich enough to buy stainless chain but thanks for the advice!
@@stephenburnage7687 Installed a new Tigres 12 V and 1500 W windlass a year ago. All chain. So far 50 m of chain seems to bee adequate. If not I can ad on a snubber of any length that will carry the load downstream the non trusted link. And if it should breake, I will still save my chain and anchor.
@svhulda6157 Yes, I have the same, which is a chain only windlass (unless you installed the optional stripper kit). Consequently, you should be able to use d 'shackles' as chain links.
How timely. I was recently on a boat that was lost in a mere 30kts. The c-clasp anchor chain join link failed. It was bought 48 hours prior and snapped in the night. The boat was lost on rocks.
That is really scary Drew and I am now certain that most C-clasp anchor chain joiners are not fit for purpose.. They are not the only manufacturer in the marine industry who puts profit before the safety of their customers!
@@SailingGently The algorithm recommended your video a couple of days after I'd watched one where the creator recommended the use of anchor swivels. I freely admit I know little about sailing and boats, but I do know something about hardware that _claims_ to be a good grade of stainless, looks shiny and robust, and seems to be just the business, but then begins to rust after a few months outside in a coastal environment. So my gut feeling on watching the other video is that I'd be very wary of a connection in the anchor line which had an internal rotating bearing that couldn't be inspected for corrosion and wear. From what I've seen, that seems to be the case with the cheaper swivels, although there are more expensive ones which can be disassembled.
Drew's experience of a chain joint failing after being moderately stressed for just a few hours is shocking. That sounds like a clear case of woefully substandard manufacturing and quality control. But your experience is just as concerning, since it makes one wonder if you would have been able to see a problem if you'd happened to examine the joiner before it failed. I can easily imagine how the pins holding the two parts together might have corroded internally, until one day a particular stress on the link made it simply fall apart.
Alan I totally agree with your concluions and opinion about connectors. They are not a safe solution and with marine products sales becoming so international it's foolish to risk the boat on a bit of doubtful stainless... All that glitters is not gold!
All's well that ends well, eh captain? So from 1 to 10, what grade would you give your Caribbean experience for the season?
Can't wait to get back out there Barney... Lovely sailing winds, great anchorages and the rain is like a warm bath...
Construction sites, heavy industry etc use chain and chain links all the time and are subject to strict safety inspections etc, with serious penalties if things go wrong, so it is possible to operate safely. The reason why boaters use these type of questionable anchor links is solely because they are small enough to run through the stripper on a windlass (not a problem in industry, as they would never mix chain & rode). However, if you have an "all chain" type of windlass (ie no stripper, to hold the rode), then you can potentially use a conventional industrial 'D' shackle to link chain, with a clearly specified load rating. My anchoring philosophy now is all chain (with rated links); no rode; with a windlass free of any stripper (no risk of jamming). The other thing to be mindful of is the big ship philosophy ie: "the weight of the chain holds the vessel and the anchor is there to hold the chain in place". Consequently, I would not buy the (more expensive) high strength G4 chain (as it is weight, not strength, that is your primary concern) but buy as much chain as you think your anchor locker will accommodate (given the inevitable "castliing" effect of chain). I would add that weight is most important if anchoring in areas with marginal or poor holding (such as river deltas, which are predominantly soft mud).
Spot on Stephen - "the weight of the chain holds the vessel and the anchor is there to hold the chain in place". - however I do think 'plough' shaped anchors tend to be better although that's just personal experience and not scientific!
Surprised the P.A.Y.S boys in Rupert Bay didn’t get out to help you? I also remember there were mooring buoys in the bay! Fair winds
When I was laying the 2nd anchor one of the boys came by! Nice guys. I always anchor near that river just past Indian River and have never been i the crowded area up near Portsmouth. I did consider heading up there briefly but even if there were buoys there I didn't fancy trying to find (and perhaps failing) in the dark.... Fair winds
Your chain didn't break, you just added a fail point.
Your right! My own fault
Are you returning to that spot? If you still have your track recorded you could drag for that anchor chain with your spare.
Because of the hurricane season I am now back in Europe and not back in the Caribbean until October!
@@SailingGently It'll probably still be there.
Speaking g of learning from your experience, did I hear right that it’s a Guardian camera you use? Which model do you have, I think it might be a useful thing to know about.
Andrew, I use cheap Chinese knockoffs costing around 60 euros and I have several. The biggest issue is battery life. The cameras seem to have a life of around 4 or 5 years which is good considering the environment I use them in. I have a LUMIX with much better audio that I use for the to camera or zoomed in material
A friend and I stepped onto his boat which was in a hoist about a meter and a half above the water and bam! The boat and everything free fell into the water as the wind and current and the momentum of the fall speed use away from the dock we realized the key was still on the dock 😢 Guess what the cause was ?
It really is a worry and theses chain joiners should be avoided IMO
The shackle between anchor and chain - are you sure this is sufficiently strong. It should exceed or exceed the breaking strain of the chain. These are expensive, but a stainless shackle with breaking strain half that of the chain leaves your entire system half as strong as you thought.
Well the size of the shackle is dictated by the breath of the pin that will through the final hole in the 8mm chain. Mine is a 'snug' fit. Couldn't fit bigger... What other solutions are there?
@@SailingGently The vital thing is to check whether the shackle is rated to a breaking strain which matches or exceeds the chain, or it is literally the weakest link. If it is not marked and you don't know, it is almost certainly not adequate and you remain at high risk. I will post links to a couple of rated shackles which are matched to chan size.
@@RichardPhillips10 The problem in the Caribbean is availability of items. The chandlers tend to stock a very limited range....
@@SailingGently Yes, these would be hard to find. At very least try and find something that has a load rating as this is almost certainly a weak link for you. On the upside they are small and maybe someone visiting could bring.
@@SailingGently ps. I do love your videos and don't want you to come to harm!!
Did you not vhf the neighbours to see if they could dive your anchor
Where I was Mark, near Indian River, there were only a couple of other boats... Nobody I knew... I was not checked in so I needed to leave shortly after dawn
questionable if the connect -link wasn't peened down properly as that was the most likely failing.
Martin you could be right although the previous one I did in Greece lasted through all the Caribbean and South Pacific = hundreds and hundreds of deployments... Personally I suspect the quality of the galvanising ... but???
@@SailingGently Yes, i am also weary of the cavities left when affixed. Wondering if sikaflex together prior to peening the lugs would be better too!
you should have ask the younger guy if he would dive for the anchor for you? i would have and paid him for his time.
You are right of course... Not too many divers in Dominica but it would have been a solution
So here's a thought....
I have so few these days I'm going show this one off.....
or expose it's poor poetry to testing by the harsh criticism of hardened gentlies (my suggested diminutive for Michael's followers).
There are more ways than one to make a scope
one of which is chain and rope
But is there a way to extend a scope
Joining chain and rode and chain and hope?
Put simply and not to music.
Joining chain with 2/3 yards of rope is something that's strong and could be examined every time you use it.
Or to use early email vernacular, am I about to be flamed?
ATB Bill
Interesting idea Bill... Not sure how the two splices would work out with the windlass... But love the poetry of it!
@@SailingGently Well so long as the chain link sizes are the the same and both match the gypsy, I think Bob's your uncle.
It looks like the first and last few seconds of the video I've linked at the end of this comment. I wonder if YT will allow it's survival?
The rigging doctor young man is of course a master slicer. Here he shows his method for splicing rode to a chain. I think you need special boots!
He's most probably also a better poet.
ua-cam.com/video/Z7fXcfmFBl0/v-deo.htmlsi=5rDK-B7yZzIPXQOm
Why not pay someone to recover your anchor?
I never checked into Dominica which is 80 miles north of Le Marin in Martinique. I have no contacts there
sounds like an easy scuba dive with a lift bag would have recovered your ground tackle
@@markberger5739 Mark back in the day I would have done that but at 82 I accept my scuba days are over.... and being in a foreign country complicates things...
Why do alla believe in chain. 80 meters is ridicules long and heavy. All the weight is not good for good for boat balance, not good for the winches, 80 meters does not help holding the anchor any beter.
Half the chain and a line is way beter. Less weight in the bow. Less weight to haul up.
In a storm the chain will be straight and does not lay on the bottom. The hook does the holding.
If the chain is less in weight the boat may ride less because of less inertia.
Be advised that bigger barges use cables. And they pull some tonnage.
Sorry but that is bad advice you are offering there. The anchor chain does not go straight up and down in a storm as you suggest. If you have the correct amount of chain scope out the chain catenary curve will leave a decent amount of chain on the seabed, it's that length of chain on the seabed that is absolutely essential for the anchor to dig in correctly.
The surface tension of the chain laying in sand or mud should also never be underestimated, it forms part of the anchor system and itself anchors the boat in position aswell as the anchor itself.
As for having more chain would unbalance a boat, that is not going to happen either, (unless you tried to put 80m of chain on to a dinghy!).
Anchoring for the afternoon, put out 3 to 1, anchoring overnight 4-1. Anchoring in a storm 5-1 or all of your chain.
The video here is spot on, never connect lengths of chain, use one continuous piece and in my opinion 60m is a good choice if your main anchoring areas are 10-15m depth.
@@rayhsetwo8594 bad advice is no advise. It’s not a advice, it’s to make you think . “Does it work like that”
Apparently most sailing channel like to follow the best advice, but is that tested ? No it only works out for them and is you copy.
did you test , no you don’t , it’s assuming that is work like that or build some experience from that.
We test things, that my job. And we have seen heavy chains completely lifted of the sea bed. That’s what I said in the first place.
Yes you need a scoop 4/1 , 5/1 everything that works. but having miles of chain is Bs on a 12 ton 50 foot boat.
The boat does not listen to the rudder very well. Yes weight an balance is a thing lighter yachts. Even a rolled sail can make the difference.
Also the shackle size is often ridiculous. “ I need a heavy and strong chain “ they say. Some have chains that can lift the boat in a whole. Also chains I a storm with thunder and lightning makes your boat a lighting rod.
Why not a line in between the chain an boat as that works more like installation. The unfortunate part is that lines need more inspections. But still you don’t have to use it all the time.
Needless to say , what works for you works for you.
I agree that the weight of chain and anchor on/in the bows is a potential issue. I am from experience certain it is the weight and length of the chain laid out on the sea bed that keeps the 'pick' dug in.... and I have found that 'plough' types dig in best... but of course its all opinion....