Great discussion. I am a huge Shamrock fan and wanted badly for him to be pushed better or make a return. I do remember that around 2002, there were talks of him wanting to return to WWE but talks fell through because Shamrock wanted a lighter schedule like the Hogan/Nash/Hall and other top guys received and wanted to still work MMA fights but WWE wanted him back full time. He was going to start off with feuding Kurt Angle. Such a missed opportunity so instead he signed with TNA and became inaugural Champ.
Yeah, Shamrock would have been a top guy in any other era but there were so many big names with so much character (Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Mankind) that it was hard for him to be viewed at that level.
He would have been incredible in Ruthless Aggression, wrestling against guys like Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Rey, Edge etc. Hell, I think he could have had an awesome series of matches with Cena
He wouldn't have been. He might've been a legit shooter, but he couldn't cut a promo to save his life and he had 0 charisma. When he feuded with Val Venis, it was Venis carrying the feud.
The thumbnali has my dying. All I can hear now is Prichard’s Cornette impression doing Ash quotes from Army of Darkness. _I could have stayed in the past. I could’ve even been king. But in my own way, I am king,_ *_motherf_cker._*
It's a shame he rarely gets mentioned he was a massive part of the attitude era and one of the great characters he was really over for a while as well. Poor booking towards the end though that storyline with his "sister" was in poor taste
If Shamrock had debuted in 2000 instead of 1997 I don’t think he would’ve had the same impact especially with Kurt angle being there. UFC was still relatively new even then and Kurt being an Olympic champion was still regarded at pretty legitimate. But I still would’ve loved to see ken go up against him and Brock and Goldberg.
Vince Torelli was his first wrestling gimmick, but I always have a hard time not remembering it as Vince Tortellini as well. The name was playing on his Italian looks, I always thought he was Italian, since I knew Shamrock was the name of his adoptive father. But his real name was actually Kilpatrick, so very Irish as well.
This stuff about Ken going to the Lion’s Den and just letting his teammates beat the shit out of him with no offense to prepare for a training camp is complete nonsense. Simply rolling around, training in wrestling or doing jiujitsu alone will cover you in bruises, scratches, cuts, lumps, etc. It’s funny because MMA guys like a Ken Shamrock are fully aware of how little a lot of pro wrestling guys (such as Bruce) know about real fighting, so they can use stuff like that to make himself seem more like a bad ass. Any fighter who just stands in place and let’s people beat the shit out of them, and refers to it as “training,” is an absolute moron. Anyone who actually trains in combat sports knows this to be the case.
You clearly know nothing about the old Lions den tryouts or training camps. Ken famously showed up to coach TUF 4 with no jiu jitsu coach and the fighters were stunned He was the dark ages
5:24 In the picture of JJ & Owen Hart it looks like as Jerry Lawler would say Debra’s puppies are looking like they’re gonna bust out of her top (sorry for the ‘bust’ pun, I was gonna put burst out but I thought bust was a perfect terminology)
lol yeah and for some reason to this day i can distinctly remember shamrock coming out to cut a promo on ppl in ring and he said, "And YOU....whatever YOU are! Yeah and YOU, whatever YOU are!" lol
Shamrock is an unsung hero of the Attitude era. I read he was supposed to be back at the Royal Rumble in 2000 but was replaced by Bob Backlund. He was backstage at Wrestlemania 18 apparently having some talks of a return and even JR confirmed this on TalkSport radio around the time of Insurrection 2002 but then he declined the offer and went to TNA instead.
I think his not returning was due to his wanting to return to MMA and at the time WWF wasn't going to let Ken do both. When Ken got destroyed by Tito Ortiz, that ended Vinces desire to see Shamrock back because Ken's "Worlds Most Dangerous Man" aura was lost.
@@chico1680 that was the reason he declined the offer to return in 2002 was he wanted to be on the same sort of contract the nWo guys were on at the time and only work certain shows and dates due to MMA but Vince said no he could only do one or the other so he went to TNA since at the time they were only doing Wednesday PPVs
I don't think talent should want to let themselves be lab rats for bad creative just because the creative team doesn't have a crystal ball. Especially if the talent isn't established, bad creative can be the kiss of death. Not everyone is as good as a John Cena and has his work ethic to take literally anything to make it his. Blame the talent when something doesn't work out and it's their fault, but they're not even technically employees of the company you're trying to keep alive and grow. So, ultimately the actual employees of said company have some degree of responsibility in making sure things can go as well as possible, and that includes not feeding someone some dog shit like the Red Rooster.
The youth. John Cena has and always has sucked. He simply had the look of Mark Wahlberg and a muscular body that was willing to do anything WWE wanted. He doesnt even hit the ropes right, let alone have one convincing move. He was perfect for that awful new Fast X movie. He was the beginning of really lazy exposing the business fake looking work (STFU with no pulling on the chin). The real issue is by 2000 the heavy hitters like Rock and Austin were on their way out, leaving HHH behind out of mainstream Hollywood and there was no A level main roster star to build on. Shamrock was disliked by HHH and HBK as he was part of the Hart clique, combine that with missing dates and getting fucked up, add to his desire to go back to the now growing UFC, add to that HHH was afraid of him as some guys were because he was a shooter that didnt like the clique. Guys were afraid of working him, like Bradshaw.
Shamrock should have kept his hairstyle from the Pancrase/UFC 1 days, would've made him look much more like a star. I never got why he had such a cheap looking hair cut when he showed up to WWF. I was always glad when he was involved in big angles, since I was a fan of the UFC, but he could have used some acting lessons. That's probably what people mean when they say he didn't have much charisma, he's acting just wasn't that good.
Ken Shamrock would let his students beat him up for one to two weeks as training! No wonder Tito Ortiz 3 times as well as Fujita, Don Frye, Rich Franklin & Sakuraba when he left the WWE went back to MMA as it’s easy to let people kick the shit out of you, maybe he should’ve worked on his offence too and maybe he wouldn’t have lost via KO/TKO in all those loses except the Don Frye fight which was a decision. So it looked like his getting beaten up training worked as he did get beaten up!
1999 was a garbage year when you compare it to the other attitude era years. It sucks that Russo got alittle ridiculous with trying too hard to swerve and shock everyone in every storyline
When you stand less chances of being permanently injured in the UFC then in the WWE its a no brainer of why KS never came back. What is up with this Hall of Fame like everybody's in it... if they only wrestled one time but you like there shoes. "Let's put them in the Hall of Fame"!!! I'm not taking away from Ken Shamrock but he was not that special in McMahon's circus. Hall of Famers for special outstanding people that stood out not just because they put on wrestling shoes.
You know why ask the other podcasts have surpassed this one? Because you guys only focus on the past. People want to hear entertaining takes on the current stories and things
The thumbnail has a great 3D effect.
Great discussion. I am a huge Shamrock fan and wanted badly for him to be pushed better or make a return. I do remember that around 2002, there were talks of him wanting to return to WWE but talks fell through because Shamrock wanted a lighter schedule like the Hogan/Nash/Hall and other top guys received and wanted to still work MMA fights but WWE wanted him back full time. He was going to start off with feuding Kurt Angle. Such a missed opportunity so instead he signed with TNA and became inaugural Champ.
He was over as hell. Just got overshadowed by The rock, stone cold, Mick Foley and triple h.
Fans really wanted Shamrock back in 2000. I remember me and my friend thinking he was going to be Kurt Angles mystery opponent at the Royal Rumble.
“I don’t know any holds!” Is the quote of a lifetime.
The opening never gets old. Double Cheese...
This just made my Sunday
Yeah, Shamrock would have been a top guy in any other era but there were so many big names with so much character (Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Mankind) that it was hard for him to be viewed at that level.
He would have been incredible in Ruthless Aggression, wrestling against guys like Angle, Benoit, Eddie, Rey, Edge etc.
Hell, I think he could have had an awesome series of matches with Cena
He wouldn't have been. He might've been a legit shooter, but he couldn't cut a promo to save his life and he had 0 charisma. When he feuded with Val Venis, it was Venis carrying the feud.
@@jd9119 kens physical charisma was as good as anyone. Lots of over guys couldn't cut a promo.
I have a lot of gray nose hair. A fact of life.
He should have gone to wcw in late '99 or early '00
The thumbnali has my dying. All I can hear now is Prichard’s Cornette impression doing Ash quotes from Army of Darkness. _I could have stayed in the past. I could’ve even been king. But in my own way, I am king,_ *_motherf_cker._*
Army of darkness🤘👽 good shit, pal
Groovy
And thank you for brightening the rest of my shift because shop smart shop s mart mother f_er🤣🤣🤣🤣
It's a shame he rarely gets mentioned he was a massive part of the attitude era and one of the great characters he was really over for a while as well. Poor booking towards the end though that storyline with his "sister" was in poor taste
Hell ya he kicked so much ass
If Shamrock had debuted in 2000 instead of 1997 I don’t think he would’ve had the same impact especially with Kurt angle being there. UFC was still relatively new even then and Kurt being an Olympic champion was still regarded at pretty legitimate. But I still would’ve loved to see ken go up against him and Brock and Goldberg.
I popped for the thumbnail looking like a baked Bruce feeing up Ken, who got unsurprisingly pissed at it.
Ken Shamrock walked so Brock Lesnar could run
Vince Torelli was his first wrestling gimmick, but I always have a hard time not remembering it as Vince Tortellini as well. The name was playing on his Italian looks, I always thought he was Italian, since I knew Shamrock was the name of his adoptive father. But his real name was actually Kilpatrick, so very Irish as well.
The original and still the best
Yeah Shamrock was punished by having a PPV match against Ministry Taker LMAO
This stuff about Ken going to the Lion’s Den and just letting his teammates beat the shit out of him with no offense to prepare for a training camp is complete nonsense. Simply rolling around, training in wrestling or doing jiujitsu alone will cover you in bruises, scratches, cuts, lumps, etc.
It’s funny because MMA guys like a Ken Shamrock are fully aware of how little a lot of pro wrestling guys (such as Bruce) know about real fighting, so they can use stuff like that to make himself seem more like a bad ass.
Any fighter who just stands in place and let’s people beat the shit out of them, and refers to it as “training,” is an absolute moron. Anyone who actually trains in combat sports knows this to be the case.
You took what bruce said there much more literally than I did.
Bingo
You clearly know nothing about the old Lions den tryouts or training camps.
Ken famously showed up to coach TUF 4 with no jiu jitsu coach and the fighters were stunned
He was the dark ages
5:24 In the picture of JJ & Owen Hart it looks like as Jerry Lawler would say Debra’s puppies are looking like they’re gonna bust out of her top (sorry for the ‘bust’ pun, I was gonna put burst out but I thought bust was a perfect terminology)
1:01:07 I'm sure they meant mic skills regarding charisma
lol yeah and for some reason to this day i can distinctly remember shamrock coming out to cut a promo on ppl in ring and he said, "And YOU....whatever YOU are! Yeah and YOU, whatever YOU are!" lol
I thought "Fist" was the stag film Stallone did before "Rocky"...
Shamrock is an unsung hero of the Attitude era. I read he was supposed to be back at the Royal Rumble in 2000 but was replaced by Bob Backlund. He was backstage at Wrestlemania 18 apparently having some talks of a return and even JR confirmed this on TalkSport radio around the time of Insurrection 2002 but then he declined the offer and went to TNA instead.
I think his not returning was due to his wanting to return to MMA and at the time WWF wasn't going to let Ken do both. When Ken got destroyed by Tito Ortiz, that ended Vinces desire to see Shamrock back because Ken's "Worlds Most Dangerous Man" aura was lost.
@@chico1680 that was the reason he declined the offer to return in 2002 was he wanted to be on the same sort of contract the nWo guys were on at the time and only work certain shows and dates due to MMA but Vince said no he could only do one or the other so he went to TNA since at the time they were only doing Wednesday PPVs
57:51 - It's live, pal.
is this a free no ads episode
Imagine Shamrock coming back now to be a Paul Ellering type for Ronda and Shayna
Shamrock was a terrible interview and women's wrestling is boring.
Who's the statue of, of the people screwing that's on Bruce's shelf?
your mom and your sister tribbing
Shamrock should have been pushed like Kurt Angle was.
Strange topic but ok
Don Frye should have been a pro wrestler.
Did he ever wrestle in Japan professionally?
JBL would have been undefeated had he learned him some GracieJJ, baw gawd
I don't think talent should want to let themselves be lab rats for bad creative just because the creative team doesn't have a crystal ball. Especially if the talent isn't established, bad creative can be the kiss of death. Not everyone is as good as a John Cena and has his work ethic to take literally anything to make it his.
Blame the talent when something doesn't work out and it's their fault, but they're not even technically employees of the company you're trying to keep alive and grow. So, ultimately the actual employees of said company have some degree of responsibility in making sure things can go as well as possible, and that includes not feeding someone some dog shit like the Red Rooster.
The youth. John Cena has and always has sucked. He simply had the look of Mark Wahlberg and a muscular body that was willing to do anything WWE wanted. He doesnt even hit the ropes right, let alone have one convincing move. He was perfect for that awful new Fast X movie. He was the beginning of really lazy exposing the business fake looking work (STFU with no pulling on the chin). The real issue is by 2000 the heavy hitters like Rock and Austin were on their way out, leaving HHH behind out of mainstream Hollywood and there was no A level main roster star to build on. Shamrock was disliked by HHH and HBK as he was part of the Hart clique, combine that with missing dates and getting fucked up, add to his desire to go back to the now growing UFC, add to that HHH was afraid of him as some guys were because he was a shooter that didnt like the clique. Guys were afraid of working him, like Bradshaw.
Why are people this stupid
I feel like Shamrock was always going to have a ceiling but he could’ve been a mid card mainstay.
Shamrock should have kept his hairstyle from the Pancrase/UFC 1 days, would've made him look much more like a star. I never got why he had such a cheap looking hair cut when he showed up to WWF. I was always glad when he was involved in big angles, since I was a fan of the UFC, but he could have used some acting lessons. That's probably what people mean when they say he didn't have much charisma, he's acting just wasn't that good.
1999 WWF was garbage, yea it was a ratings success but looking back at it now its truly atrocious and by no means am I defending today's product
It’s was their most entertaining time. Truly atrocious!
New logo for a T-Shirt - "She was NOT A STRIPPER!!"
Austin was the reluctant hero for Stephanie because of Steves and Vinces history.
Bruce better be careful about singing Garth on UA-cam. He's sue happy
Ken Shamrock would let his students beat him up for one to two weeks as training! No wonder Tito Ortiz 3 times as well as Fujita, Don Frye, Rich Franklin & Sakuraba when he left the WWE went back to MMA as it’s easy to let people kick the shit out of you, maybe he should’ve worked on his offence too and maybe he wouldn’t have lost via KO/TKO in all those loses except the Don Frye fight which was a decision. So it looked like his getting beaten up training worked as he did get beaten up!
Thank you mofos
1999 was a garbage year when you compare it to the other attitude era years. It sucks that Russo got alittle ridiculous with trying too hard to swerve and shock everyone in every storyline
I agree, alot of ADD booking from Russo as well
When you stand less chances of being permanently injured in the UFC then in the WWE its a no brainer of why KS never came back.
What is up with this Hall of Fame like everybody's in it... if they only wrestled one time but you like there shoes. "Let's put them in the Hall of Fame"!!!
I'm not taking away from Ken Shamrock but he was not that special in McMahon's circus.
Hall of Famers for special outstanding people that stood out not just because they put on wrestling shoes.
Nothing better than sunday listening to Pritchard
Well you kno….
@@joedavidson6556 huuuh?…
You must be new or you’d get it
You know why ask the other podcasts have surpassed this one? Because you guys only focus on the past. People want to hear entertaining takes on the current stories and things
NO many of us don't! I Can't stand an hour of aew talk in connies other shows. This is actually still his number 1 podcast
@@The_Sage_of_Six_Paths still *his* number one podcast. Yet many have passed him.