I would absolutely love to have either of these. The distance they cover would work out perfectly, they don't require a license, and avoiding expensive gas prices for electric/solar power would be amazing. The fact that there's room for a passenger, too, essentially makes it my ideal vehicle. The initial price really is the only downside. It would take quite a while to be able to get. I hope there will be more affordable options like these in the future. Definitely on my wish list, though.
@@treavy1 I have an ELF. It's not suitable for winter at all. If The Pebl has no defrost for the front window, at least, it's not suitable for MN winters, either.
The elf seems like a better deal to me,, but I think they both need to come down in price to approximately $5,000 -$6,000 for widespread adoption. The nimbus 1 for $10k is ALOT more bang for the buck. I’m sure with economy of scale both the Elf or Pebl should be able to sell for around $5k. I mean a good E bike can be had for $1,000 now
@@nathanahubbard1975 Says someone blind to the environmental and monetary costs of subsidized gas. EVs can NOT be directly compared to ICE vehicle prices. They burn no gas, need no oil changes and insurance is less so the buy-in cost has to be looked at differently. Used ELFs now sell for $2 to 3K. I still have mine but I used all the money I saved with it to buy a new Arcimoto autocycle.
Totally agree with your statement about the prices. Even now in 2023, they are too expensive for what you are getting considering they have limitations on capacity and usage. Good video, thanks for posting.
I totally agree with your point about neighborhood cohesion. Thank you for sharing these small vehicles. As an urban dweller in a four season part of the country, I would find the Nimbus more useful but for suburban sprawl. I can walk or use public transportation to access most local services I need, but I consistently need a vehicle to travel to the suburbs or country. I have been hoping Aptera would provide a single solution for urban, suburban, and highway driving, and look forward to seeing whether it will be. I have 9.76 kW of solar PV, so I actually have the ability to generate the electricity I drive on locally.
Thanks for that update on these vehicles. FYI: - "Reverse trikes" are called tadpoles, opposed to delta trikes. - Please don't keep calling small motor vehicles velomobiles as the latter ones are by definition Human Powered Vehicles (HPVs). "Velomobiles" are fully enclosed trikes or less often also bycicles (Human Powered Vehicles). It is quite uncommon that an auxiliary motor gets added to a velomobile. - Motorized small fully enclosed vehicles without primary human poweder propulsion commonly are called "Podbikes". - The Elf (so they did over come their 2020 insolvency?) and the PEBL are more a Podbike than a Velomobile because they both are too heavy to be driven by muscle power alone as soon as it goes up only the slightest bit. Without sigificant electric motor assistance you won't get anywhere with these unless all driven paths were perfectly flat, and that's without any luggage at all. Unfortunately the Elf and PEBL are so unarodynamic and unsexy that they were confirming for too long the prejudice that electric vehicles were all tiny, uncomfortable, ugly and unsafe tinkerer's projects.
It would be a better comparison with recumbent trikes instead of bikes. I think my new Catrike is close to $5k after I added an electric motor that is limited to 20mph. I have an older Terratrike with a more powerful and somewhat illegal motor that can get into the 30's. Both of them are cheap compared to the European brands though and those can easily touch or pass $10k. I have followed the Elf for quite awhile, but since I live in a rural place that requires highway driving, I never really thought about buying one. If I lived in an urban place with parking, it would be interesting since it rains here half the year. There is a company I saw in North Carolina that has trikes which can hit 40mph and you can be pedaling to assist at that speed with the gearing they have. And there is a guy up here in Vancouver building one which is somewhat enclosed, but just doing custom orders instead of production so far. I think if there was a market for enough of them then going into a mass production would bring the prices down
The solar panels in your link come with a charge controller that is not compatible with lithium batteries. I am hoping that if Aptera comes with a plug for additional solar that you wouldn't need an additional controller. I have the one in the kit on my boat which still uses FLA batteries until I replace them. That controller is only about $20, but a better one is around $100+. I do like the idea of having some folding solar to plug into the car if it comes with VTL so you can plug in camping equipment to the car instead of bringing a solar generator to power the camp. I like my induction stove so I don't need propane or anything that goes boom
I gave up my car in the 2020's it's also when I retired, I have an e-bike but I want to upgrade to something with more range and a roof when it rains, I put money down on a nimbus but I haven't heard from them, Do you know what cars are available for sale in California?
I'm not interested in either the ELF or the PEBL but they are interesting vehicles for some. I agree that we need to think practical not necessarily bigger is better solutions. For comparison, I was watching a video on an EV race from CO to Las Vegas, a trip of 809 miles where the least amount of energy used with an average speed of 70 mph was 289 kWh. Compare that to what we are expecting with the Aptera that will use about 83 kWh averaging 70 mph with a 41 kWh battery pack. We don't need to consume more power just because we have an EV. Bigger battery packs are not good for the environment and consuming more electric power doesn't help things as most electric power in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels. As far as options, I have written Aptera asking about tie downs for cargo nets with no reply. Having that huge back area to put things is great but without tie downs things in the back become projectiles. While I want the full solar package and wish they would use a composite "window" instead of glass or Plexiglas, some people do not want that back window blocked but might want a privacy cover that lowers when the hatch is closed. (Something to think about is the amount of heat that the back hatch will let into the vehicle if you don't have the solar option. Having a 3rd & 4th generation Firebird with a large hatch, I can tell you that it gets toasty and a very good AC was needed.)
I think Aptera will have tie downs and nets available. There will probably be aftermarket solutions popping up if/when Apteras get into full production. They show a camping conversion kit on their website so it seems likely that they have considered those other accessories.
@@tims8603 Tie down points are something that can be easily overlooked when they are building the interior molds. I'm hoping that they don't forget about them. Putting something in afterwards can be done but would make it much nicer if it came with these points. We can get cargo nets later if we want or again, hopefully they will come with them. Tons of details to be ironed out between now and October/November if they are building a production vehicle in December. Hopefully Gamma will provide an enormous amount of answers to our questions.
@@ddessert6 Sure, but the guys designing the Aptera seem to be very thorough and meticulous. I'm sure they're reading comments and questions from interested buyers and taking them to heart. I trust that they know what they're doing. Of course, I may be wrong.
I think these would be great in warmer climates for people who need to commute 10-20 miles regularly. Wouldn't be good where I live due to our long winters and short summers. The price is high but a lot of that is probably because of limited production and the solar.
The PEBL has a removable under the pedals floor and has an optional heater. There are a few Canadians in our Facebook group who say they drive year-round and don't use the heater as much as they expected (mostly to take out the chill before getting started.)
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL mine does not. Mine is one of the original units sold. I understand they have a new version now. You should check to see what the new offering has. Be cautious, it seems like no one has received a PEBL in a long time.
I enjoy these no pressure reviews. Thanks. I'm not at all interested in the "conventional" three wheel trikes because they are so low and hard to see around especially in traffic and hard to be seen. These two units seem to solve that problem. I'm afraid they're just too frumpy for me. I'm trying to warm up to the Aptera frumpy interior as well.
I've had my PEBL for four years now. I don't ride it very much ever since I got my Electric UniCycle (EUC). It has a 25-mile range with one battery, but when I purchased mine, you could order it with up to four batteries and get 100-mile range without pedaling. The batteries could be purchased later ($500), but 25-mile range has so far been enough for me. Last I heard they were moving production to Germany, but I don't know how the COVID has affected any of those plans. I had to wait over a year from the time I ordered it to the time I received it. It goes up the steepest and longest of hills I could find with ease. It's ideal for getting to the local grocery store since it will carry way more than could be carried on a bicycle or EUC.
You are not going up steep hills with ease unles you added the illegal 1500 watt motor modification. PEBL falied because it was 70 pounds heavier than the ELF. Too many superficial car-like features.
Yeah, the price is a bit off-putting but it certainly has some appeal for around-town errands and exercise. I'd have to make sure it (and/or my legs) would have enough power to get it up my steep driveway. Of the two, I think I'd opt for the PEBL.
@@ErichPaetow You are alone in that claim. PEBL was a failure because it weighed 235 pounds and owners found it could not make it up hills without the illegal 1500 watt power upgrade called 'off road mode' to skirt the laws. All the PEBL videos at YT say the same thing in a consensus of the comments. It had too many car-like features - wood dashboard, illuminated storage compartments, gas shock rear hatch, carpet liner and more. It was never more than a lame copy of the successful ELF design that saw three owners do 4000 mile trips. No PEBL ever achieved 1000 miles. One ELF owner just passed 50,000 miles on a never ending journey around the US. ELF travelers have written a book and made a movie.
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL No, it is a major blunder in your expectations. A snowmobile is not a failed design because it is worthless in Florida. The ELF is a frigging bicycle!! Duh!!!! Some northern owners add snow tires or studs and routinely ride in snow up to 4 inches. Lots of northerners come down here to Florida in winter. The ELF was my only transportation for 7 years and now in year 8 I still need it for safe fun exercise even though I bought a new Arcimoto autocycle with all the money I saved by not owning a car for 7 years. If car-bikes are not for your lifestyle, flake off. You have no excuse for attacking a great US made product that sold 900 vehicles before the pandemic took it down.
@@popeyegordon"The ELF is a frigging bicycle!!" Many Minnesotans DO ride their bikes and e-bikes in the winter, just not The ELF. The window fogs up and it doesn't handle well in the snow. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wear nothing but U.S. made pants, shoes, coats, and even underwear. All my cars have been American UAW made. Toolbox, tools (maybe 60%?), etc. That being said, there can be no technological progress in the production of domestic goods if we don't admit to their shortfalls. I think there is a technical solution to the window condensation and horrible winter handling of The ELF. I just haven't found it, yet.
These are interesting vehicles, but again they serve a pretty tiny demographic. The cool part is that they use the sun to power the electric boost to overcome the added weight of enclosure. But I'd rather buy an E-bike (for much less money), especially with so many affordable and capable choices available today. These tiny enclosed trike/EVs seem more vulnerable than the Aptera (which can easily replace a car for daily driving) or even an E-bike, which is similarly limited like the Elf, but is far more nimble and maneuverable. Still it is nice to look at the larger solar EV spectrum.
🔌🔌I am still dreaming of putting two fold-up *GoCycle 4Gi* EV bikes in the back of my Aptera. I found hauling my iZip EV bikes on my SUV bike rack hitch is a pain when traveling.🔌🔌
They're not solar, but the velomobiles in Europe look more aerodynamic and more comfortable, e.g., Frikar Podbike, Northern Light Motors, and Grant Sinclair's Iris eTrike.
I realize I'm a bit late to this, but I just found the video. I had a PEBL for about six months before it was stolen, but I used it all winter long in Minnesota, except for when it went below zero, where it has the same warning more EVs have, which is don't use the battery when it's that cold. Overall, loved it. It's a bit loud, and while the shock was nice in the back, the three wheels made it hard to avoid some of potholes, and it wasn't that good because the vehicle was still 200+ lbs and didn't do anything if the hole hit a front wheel. Also, Better Bike dropped the hemp shell long ago because of quality issues and went with regular fiberglass, and the back seat was only good for an adult if it was a child-sized adult (like my 4' 10" in-law). Also, they moved out of Massachusetts a couple of years ago, citing inability to get some parts; there's supposedly a new version on the way that corrects some of minor flaws of the original (like drum brakes, which they used to regenerate the battery, but on the PEBL didn't have very good grip, nor generated enough heat to actually recharge anything). Regarding the cost, the price is because each bike is hand-built. The only way prices will go down is if the company has enough money to invest in employees and automation, which means having to sell a ton more bikes - and it just isn't going to happen. Otherwise we'd see some of the other larger e-bike manufacturers (or maybe car manufactures) make them, too. I wish they did, but they don't. Overall, I loved the PEBL. It was great to use as a cargo bike as well as in poor weather (like 30-degrees and rain - yuck). I wish I could get another; even though I had it insured, I felt it wasn't worth putting in another $11k and waiting a year for delivery. Finally, Organic Transit (maker of the ELF) has been out of business a long time.
The company moved production to Dubai. I know someone that has been waiting over 3 years for her bike. They will not refund her money and keep stringing her along with promises of a 'few more months'. Anyone in the US with a PEBL likely got it prior to the COVID pandemic.
Nice but @10k Yikes! Now when the car bike Kits become available that would be the most economical cost effective way to build & own one of these outstanding vehicles. Great video, Big oil needs to go. They have been controlling the high cost of everything for way too long including electricity. Vehicles like this & the Toyota BZ4X send a clear message to the monopolized oil industry that their days are numbered. Car/bike kits are The Wave of the Future.
Max speed on the velomobiles is still 20 MPH throttle only and max assist speed is 28 MPH. Using the bike lane plus, taking nearly the whole bike lane with this makes it much harder to pass on busy roads. Only reason I'm brining this up is because I strongly considered one years ago. I settled on a Townie go! 8i with the internal geared hub, bosch motor (top of the bicycle market), has a rack, built in rear lock, detachable battery (easier to charge at work), can easily be pedaled as a regular bike if you run out of power, and is extremely low maintenance as the hub only needs to have the cable checked once or twice a year, drive chain oiled perhaps once a year, and brake pads changed as much as twice a year and blead once a year. Cons no solar.... but the battery is 400wh and could easily be charged by a jackery with a solar panel or another portable power solution, power inverter with a cheap panel may work as well. The other great thing about this solution is being able to fit it in the back of the Aptera then driving to a free charger (if needed) and using the the e bike as a way to get to work, the store, or wherever you want to go. As far as range is concerned, minimum (at Turbo mode) is 27 miles, max is 99 miles (on eco mode). Charging at work is a breeze as it takes no more than 3 hours to charge the 400 wh battery. I figure if I drive my commute with the full solar package on the Aptera I will need 10-12 KW extra power per week. Considering the level 2 chargers near my office (we have no EV charging here) I can never pay for electricity while using a charger for less than 2 hours per week and use my ebike as a dingy if you will. I have long considered what to do when carrying multiple bikes (I'm a mountain bike enthusiast and my girlfriend likes to ride from time to time). The one truly promising though aerodynamic compromising solution is the seasucker. Oh and the townie go 8i has disc brakes now as well as classic good looks and costs $2,999. There are cheaper solutions but the entire package is really impressive in my mind. I also like the specialized turbo Vado and turbo Vado SL as they offer a much more budget friendly option with pedal assist up to 28 mph and can be easily stored in the back of the Aptera.
My mom ordered a PEBL 3 years ago. The company will not refund her money. Production has moved to Dubai. It is almost a certainty if you are in the US that you will not recieve a bike.
For where I live, this is too wide to belong in a bike lane and too slow to comfortably merge with automotive traffic, leaving this as a rather awkward vehicle (maybe better in suburbia or in the countryside?)
The hemp based composite is interesting. One of the criticisms of normal composites (for things like wind turbines) is that after their finite lifespan they can't really be recycled. Maybe they can be shredded and used as filler in some cases, but you can't separate the glass or carbon fibres from the resin and reuse them. At least at the moment. Of course with hemp composites they are probably still using harsh resins as the binder, but I guess it's at least a partly solved problem. The Pebl is really tempting, too. Though my wife would kill me if I paid that much for something like that hahaha. My accoustic bike will have to do for now.
Sorry, the PEBL's hemp body was a disaster. It would disintegrate in hot humid climates and it was too heavy. They had a huge recall and started using fiberglass which upped the weight to 235 pounds, a disaster for a hybrid powered bike. No longer sold.
I'm pretty sure the Elf is vaporware, sadly. The News section of their website hasn't been updated since 2016. That's unfortunately true for all too many of the velomobile designs. Edit: Looks like they went into bankruptcy and shut down in 2019, but the founder is hoping to bring them back.
It's like this thing (only in German, unfortunately, scroll into the video a bit). The founder in Germany is looking for funding to build more than just 10 units. Technically, it has much better specs and also looks better than the Pebl: ua-cam.com/video/ZlUheuXZQew/v-deo.html
The Elf is nicer looking, but seeing the inside picture of the floor (or non-floor) I wouldn’t be buying one and especially in the $10k range. I’ve looked at a couple of sub $1,000 folding electric bikes that look interesting for carrying in Aptera.
I have both like electric scooter it goes 80 miles an I have electric motorcycle ebike it goes 60 miles then I go to an i love my both electric motorcycle ebike then scooter it look's awesome!
The ELF (organic Transit ) went bankrupt about 2 years ago. If you buy all the bells and whistles on the better bike it's about 13,000 USD. Oh and the body is no longer made of Hemp it's made of the same type of plactic the ELF "was made " Of.
Actually the replacement body shell was fiberglass which caused the death of the company. A 235 pound bike can not be practical with a legal 750 watt motor. The ELF weighs 75 pounds less, there seems to be an unwitten rule about functional velo hybrids not being over 200 pounds. The ELF used vaccuum formed Trylon, much lighter.
@@johnatkinson9530 Organic Transit and Arcimoto were similar new vehicles. Stock in this new category of vehicles is not hot now. The economy has to turn around. Tesla got a $465 million dollar loan to start and they have been building unsustainable obscenely over powered and heavy status symbols which we will reject in the next decade. Lighter EVs will comprise the bulk of the market soon. The 9,065 pound Chevy E-hummer contains enough materials to make 2 Teslas or 8 Arcimotos or 100 heavy duty long range ebikes, proving there is no battery mineral shortage, there is only a battery mineral squandering.
@@popeyegordon Aptera will outperform all EVs. Aptera ... You should read about it before commenting on it blindly. Even if you don't do any research on it... At least Google it so you know what it looks like.
Whats the point of a solar car without doors 🚪?? Anyone can steal your battery, wheels or joyride. Unless you park it in garage which defeats the purpose
$10k? LOL, good luck with that. Electric bikes are only expensive if you need to buy name brand. I’ve got an electric bike off Amazon that’s been perfect for 3 yrs now that cost me $850. Without peddling it can go 20mph and last about 20 miles. $15k for an electric bike is for people who have more money then they know what to do with it. Sure if someone wants this to drive around town but man I’d hate to drive this around in the summer or winter. At $10k I’d just buy a shitbox with liability insurance.
How much do you spend to own and operate any car each year in the US? The average is at least $3000 every year, forever, new or used. After driving the OT ELF as my only vehicle for 7 years I saved so much money I could pay cash for my new US made Arcimoto autocycle. And now, the three wheeled vehicle means I only give $134/yr for insurance in a state where any old car costs you at least $1000/yr to insure! Plus no gas to buy, ever. Healthy exercise and you never need to search for a parking space. I still have my ELF too. The PEBL was too heavy, they folded and sold the rights to a German company.
I came across both these several years ago. I like them but I think the Peble is better. Check out The Great Peble Adventure from Eric: ua-cam.com/play/PLkwO4OGEvFUXrkc_n6j6semKo5Uslf5Cs.html
Thousands of UA-cam braggards have posted derogatory comments like yours and yet NOT ONE OF THEM has ever built the full equivalent to the ELF. Motors over 750 watts are not legal in the US.
The PEBL was outsourced to Germany. Importing the new model will be too costly. There are 800 ELFs still in service - a used one runs about $2K. Let me tell you wat is too expensive: any car. I bought my last gallon of gas 8 years ago. Aftering driving the ELF as my only transportation for 7 years I saved $22,000 which was enough to pay cash for my new Arcimoto autocycle. Velomobiles need no insurance or gas or other car expenses which always add up to an average of $3000 a year. My $7000 ELF paid for itself in just three years. NOW my Arcimoto insurance costs just $132/yr where an old car would cost $1000/yr to insure. No gas to buy, no expensive motor or transmission to blow up. My Arcimoto will pay for itself completely in just 8 years compared to owning a car for that same period. Apteras are vaporware and there is no way they are going to market carbon fiber bodies for the promised price point. A carbon fiber bicycle is $9000!
No chance. And it was very wrong for the channel owner to heart your incorrect and damaging comment. An old car costs me $1000 in insurance here in Florida, even with my perfect record. Now I drive the Arcimoto autocycle for a $132 annual cost of Allstate insurance. That's $800 a year savings every year right there. Then there is all the gas I don't buy. And no oil changes, no timing belt to break. In my lifetime I have sent two cars to the junkyard when their timing belts broke. A car given to you absolutely free still costs you more than an EV to own and operate.
@@Yoshikarter1 The exact opposite is true. The up front cost of EVs is higher but they are far cheaper to insure and operate. A car given to you absolutely free still costs you $3000/yr to insure, fuel, maintain and drive. My Arcimoto autocycle is saving me over $2000 every year compared to car expenses so I can say it pays for itself in 10 years while any car costs you a lot more, forever.
@@popeyegordon...That's exactly what I was saying. A used gas car will be cheaper initially, but all of the following costs will add up to the point where you'll have lost money than if you had gone electric. A bike-car will be even cheaper than an auto, gas or electric, in the long run.
The ELF and PEBL are too underpowered and slow for the price. Even though you need a driver's license and insurance, the tradeoff is worth it to buy the $10,000 Nimbus One or the slightly more expensive $17,900 Arimoto because they can keep up with traffic, and don't bog down on hills like the inferior underpowered ELF or PEBL do.
Apples and oranges. 20 mph limited trikes can be used on delightful safe bike paths and even sidewalks away from traffic. Nimbus needs license and insurance. The ELF was my only transportation for 7 years. It saved me so much $$ I could pay cash for my Arcimoto on my very modest retirement pension. Now I still buy no gas but I'm strapped into a 6 point harness in a certified safe roll cage and getting thrills every time those twin motors rev up, they sound like a jet turbine! That insurance is only $132/yr because I get the motorcycle rate.
Change my mind: Velomobiles are over-priced coffins. In the real world, any 4-wheel vehicle Will End the occupants of this in a collision over ~15mph. This over-sized white-boy's toy is too wide for bike lanes, and bike lanes aren't viable commute routes for the majority of Americans'. In the USA, this is a death trap. Now, in Europe, where tiny-cars are popular, these are Still a Death Trap but a more socially-acceptable one. (from an Aptera reservation owner 2007-11, 2020-current)
My issue is these vehicles arent suited for off road, if you in in rural areas, and the cost especially during this honk honk administration. No one is gonna pony up 10k
These would be perfect for me, i work 2 miles away, grocery stores are 3 miles.
I would absolutely love to have either of these. The distance they cover would work out perfectly, they don't require a license, and avoiding expensive gas prices for electric/solar power would be amazing. The fact that there's room for a passenger, too, essentially makes it my ideal vehicle. The initial price really is the only downside. It would take quite a while to be able to get. I hope there will be more affordable options like these in the future. Definitely on my wish list, though.
The pebl is superior to the elf as it’s meant for cold weather environments and even ha a heater
@@treavy1 I have an ELF. It's not suitable for winter at all. If The Pebl has no defrost for the front window, at least, it's not suitable for MN winters, either.
The elf seems like a better deal to me,, but I think they both need to come down in price to approximately $5,000 -$6,000 for widespread adoption.
The nimbus 1 for $10k is ALOT more bang for the buck.
I’m sure with economy of scale both the Elf or Pebl should be able to sell for around $5k.
I mean a good E bike can be had for $1,000 now
Widespread adoption? That's probably never going to happen, but even at $5000 you can forget about it.
@@nathanahubbard1975 That's exactly what you see with velomobiles as well, price is too prohibive.
@@nathanahubbard1975 Says someone blind to the environmental and monetary costs of subsidized gas. EVs can NOT be directly compared to ICE vehicle prices. They burn no gas, need no oil changes and insurance is less so the buy-in cost has to be looked at differently. Used ELFs now sell for $2 to 3K. I still have mine but I used all the money I saved with it to buy a new Arcimoto autocycle.
Totally agree with your statement about the prices. Even now in 2023, they are too expensive for what you are getting considering they have limitations on capacity and usage. Good video, thanks for posting.
I totally agree with your point about neighborhood cohesion. Thank you for sharing these small vehicles. As an urban dweller in a four season part of the country, I would find the Nimbus more useful but for suburban sprawl. I can walk or use public transportation to access most local services I need, but I consistently need a vehicle to travel to the suburbs or country. I have been hoping Aptera would provide a single solution for urban, suburban, and highway driving, and look forward to seeing whether it will be. I have 9.76 kW of solar PV, so I actually have the ability to generate the electricity I drive on locally.
These would be great for people with suspended driver's licenses. lol
Personally I like the pebl and have considered it. I have also considered the twike, but that is in another class and is more expensive for sure.
Love the Apteral because of the fantastic rear storage that you can sleep in, and it will go expressway speeds to travel across country .
Thanks for that update on these vehicles.
FYI:
- "Reverse trikes" are called tadpoles, opposed to delta trikes.
- Please don't keep calling small motor vehicles velomobiles as the latter ones are by definition Human Powered Vehicles (HPVs). "Velomobiles" are fully enclosed trikes or less often also bycicles (Human Powered Vehicles). It is quite uncommon that an auxiliary motor gets added to a velomobile.
- Motorized small fully enclosed vehicles without primary human poweder propulsion commonly are called "Podbikes".
- The Elf (so they did over come their 2020 insolvency?) and the PEBL are more a Podbike than a Velomobile because they both are too heavy to be driven by muscle power alone as soon as it goes up only the slightest bit. Without sigificant electric motor assistance you won't get anywhere with these unless all driven paths were perfectly flat, and that's without any luggage at all.
Unfortunately the Elf and PEBL are so unarodynamic and unsexy that they were confirming for too long the prejudice that electric vehicles were all tiny, uncomfortable, ugly and unsafe tinkerer's projects.
Their primary advantage is the loophole they are granted by Democrats to use standard bike trails, while ICE vehicles are not.
The Veemo looks like its happening. And have you seen the new version of the PEBL? It looks much sleeker.
I like the elf. I think it's a funny thought to imagine Will Ferrell in it.
😂
No one owns the comments here, especially not Popeye Gordon!
My small town requires 45 mph 😕
It would be a better comparison with recumbent trikes instead of bikes. I think my new Catrike is close to $5k after I added an electric motor that is limited to 20mph. I have an older Terratrike with a more powerful and somewhat illegal motor that can get into the 30's. Both of them are cheap compared to the European brands though and those can easily touch or pass $10k.
I have followed the Elf for quite awhile, but since I live in a rural place that requires highway driving, I never really thought about buying one. If I lived in an urban place with parking, it would be interesting since it rains here half the year.
There is a company I saw in North Carolina that has trikes which can hit 40mph and you can be pedaling to assist at that speed with the gearing they have. And there is a guy up here in Vancouver building one which is somewhat enclosed, but just doing custom orders instead of production so far. I think if there was a market for enough of them then going into a mass production would bring the prices down
The solar panels in your link come with a charge controller that is not compatible with lithium batteries. I am hoping that if Aptera comes with a plug for additional solar that you wouldn't need an additional controller. I have the one in the kit on my boat which still uses FLA batteries until I replace them. That controller is only about $20, but a better one is around $100+.
I do like the idea of having some folding solar to plug into the car if it comes with VTL so you can plug in camping equipment to the car instead of bringing a solar generator to power the camp. I like my induction stove so I don't need propane or anything that goes boom
I gave up my car in the 2020's it's also when I retired, I have an e-bike but I want to upgrade to something with more range and a roof when it rains, I put money down on a nimbus but I haven't heard from them, Do you know what cars are available for sale in California?
How does it handle steep hills tho
Or is it only good for flat terrain 😮
My only question about these electric bikes is where do you go to get it fixed?
I'm not interested in either the ELF or the PEBL but they are interesting vehicles for some. I agree that we need to think practical not necessarily bigger is better solutions. For comparison, I was watching a video on an EV race from CO to Las Vegas, a trip of 809 miles where the least amount of energy used with an average speed of 70 mph was 289 kWh. Compare that to what we are expecting with the Aptera that will use about 83 kWh averaging 70 mph with a 41 kWh battery pack. We don't need to consume more power just because we have an EV. Bigger battery packs are not good for the environment and consuming more electric power doesn't help things as most electric power in the US is still produced by burning fossil fuels.
As far as options, I have written Aptera asking about tie downs for cargo nets with no reply. Having that huge back area to put things is great but without tie downs things in the back become projectiles.
While I want the full solar package and wish they would use a composite "window" instead of glass or Plexiglas, some people do not want that back window blocked but might want a privacy cover that lowers when the hatch is closed. (Something to think about is the amount of heat that the back hatch will let into the vehicle if you don't have the solar option. Having a 3rd & 4th generation Firebird with a large hatch, I can tell you that it gets toasty and a very good AC was needed.)
I think Aptera will have tie downs and nets available. There will probably be aftermarket solutions popping up if/when Apteras get into full production. They show a camping conversion kit on their website so it seems likely that they have considered those other accessories.
@@tims8603 Tie down points are something that can be easily overlooked when they are building the interior molds. I'm hoping that they don't forget about them. Putting something in afterwards can be done but would make it much nicer if it came with these points. We can get cargo nets later if we want or again, hopefully they will come with them. Tons of details to be ironed out between now and October/November if they are building a production vehicle in December. Hopefully Gamma will provide an enormous amount of answers to our questions.
@@ddessert6 Sure, but the guys designing the Aptera seem to be very thorough and meticulous. I'm sure they're reading comments and questions from interested buyers and taking them to heart. I trust that they know what they're doing. Of course, I may be wrong.
I think these would be great in warmer climates for people who need to commute 10-20 miles regularly. Wouldn't be good where I live due to our long winters and short summers. The price is high but a lot of that is probably because of limited production and the solar.
The PEBL has a removable under the pedals floor and has an optional heater. There are a few Canadians in our Facebook group who say they drive year-round and don't use the heater as much as they expected (mostly to take out the chill before getting started.)
@@ErichPaetowWindow defrost is absolutely critical and necessary to avoid death in cold climates. Does the Pebl have that?
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL mine does not. Mine is one of the original units sold. I understand they have a new version now. You should check to see what the new offering has. Be cautious, it seems like no one has received a PEBL in a long time.
@@ErichPaetow Thanks for the update!
@@ErichPaetow UA-camrs report luck with using an USB powered fan.
I enjoy these no pressure reviews. Thanks. I'm not at all interested in the "conventional" three wheel trikes because they are so low and hard to see around especially in traffic and hard to be seen. These two units seem to solve that problem. I'm afraid they're just too frumpy for me. I'm trying to warm up to the Aptera frumpy interior as well.
Getting back to Aptera, what have you found out about the content of the last investors call?
I've had my PEBL for four years now. I don't ride it very much ever since I got my Electric UniCycle (EUC). It has a 25-mile range with one battery, but when I purchased mine, you could order it with up to four batteries and get 100-mile range without pedaling. The batteries could be purchased later ($500), but 25-mile range has so far been enough for me. Last I heard they were moving production to Germany, but I don't know how the COVID has affected any of those plans. I had to wait over a year from the time I ordered it to the time I received it. It goes up the steepest and longest of hills I could find with ease. It's ideal for getting to the local grocery store since it will carry way more than could be carried on a bicycle or EUC.
You are not going up steep hills with ease unles you added the illegal 1500 watt motor modification. PEBL falied because it was 70 pounds heavier than the ELF. Too many superficial car-like features.
Yeah, the price is a bit off-putting but it certainly has some appeal for around-town errands and exercise. I'd have to make sure it (and/or my legs) would have enough power to get it up my steep driveway. Of the two, I think I'd opt for the PEBL.
I've owned one for about four years now, and I've been up every steep hill I could find. I never had any issues!
@@ErichPaetow You are alone in that claim. PEBL was a failure because it weighed 235 pounds and owners found it could not make it up hills without the illegal 1500 watt power upgrade called 'off road mode' to skirt the laws. All the PEBL videos at YT say the same thing in a consensus of the comments. It had too many car-like features - wood dashboard, illuminated storage compartments, gas shock rear hatch, carpet liner and more. It was never more than a lame copy of the successful ELF design that saw three owners do 4000 mile trips. No PEBL ever achieved 1000 miles. One ELF owner just passed 50,000 miles on a never ending journey around the US. ELF travelers have written a book and made a movie.
@@popeyegordon I have an ELF. It's definitely not useable in MN winters. That's a MAJOR drawback.
@@DUCKSAREEVILLLLLLLL No, it is a major blunder in your expectations. A snowmobile is not a failed design because it is worthless in Florida. The ELF is a frigging bicycle!! Duh!!!! Some northern owners add snow tires or studs and routinely ride in snow up to 4 inches.
Lots of northerners come down here to Florida in winter. The ELF was my only transportation for 7 years and now in year 8 I still need it for safe fun exercise even though I bought a new Arcimoto autocycle with all the money I saved by not owning a car for 7 years.
If car-bikes are not for your lifestyle, flake off. You have no excuse for attacking a great US made product that sold 900 vehicles before the pandemic took it down.
@@popeyegordon"The ELF is a frigging bicycle!!"
Many Minnesotans DO ride their bikes and e-bikes in the winter, just not The ELF. The window fogs up and it doesn't handle well in the snow. I'm sorry if that upsets you. I wear nothing but U.S. made pants, shoes, coats, and even underwear. All my cars have been American UAW made. Toolbox, tools (maybe 60%?), etc. That being said, there can be no technological progress in the production of domestic goods if we don't admit to their shortfalls. I think there is a technical solution to the window condensation and horrible winter handling of The ELF. I just haven't found it, yet.
vehicles of the future. Community Bike only in a elf or pebl.
These are interesting vehicles, but again they serve a pretty tiny demographic. The cool part is that they use the sun to power the electric boost to overcome the added weight of enclosure. But I'd rather buy an E-bike (for much less money), especially with so many affordable and capable choices available today. These tiny enclosed trike/EVs seem more vulnerable than the Aptera (which can easily replace a car for daily driving) or even an E-bike, which is similarly limited like the Elf, but is far more nimble and maneuverable. Still it is nice to look at the larger solar EV spectrum.
🔌🔌I am still dreaming of putting two fold-up *GoCycle 4Gi* EV bikes in the back of my Aptera. I found hauling my iZip EV bikes on my SUV bike rack hitch is a pain when traveling.🔌🔌
There are not many places my Gocycle G4i will not fit!
Great for golf cart communities.
They're not solar, but the velomobiles in Europe look more aerodynamic and more comfortable, e.g., Frikar Podbike, Northern Light Motors, and Grant Sinclair's Iris eTrike.
I realize I'm a bit late to this, but I just found the video. I had a PEBL for about six months before it was stolen, but I used it all winter long in Minnesota, except for when it went below zero, where it has the same warning more EVs have, which is don't use the battery when it's that cold.
Overall, loved it. It's a bit loud, and while the shock was nice in the back, the three wheels made it hard to avoid some of potholes, and it wasn't that good because the vehicle was still 200+ lbs and didn't do anything if the hole hit a front wheel. Also, Better Bike dropped the hemp shell long ago because of quality issues and went with regular fiberglass, and the back seat was only good for an adult if it was a child-sized adult (like my 4' 10" in-law). Also, they moved out of Massachusetts a couple of years ago, citing inability to get some parts; there's supposedly a new version on the way that corrects some of minor flaws of the original (like drum brakes, which they used to regenerate the battery, but on the PEBL didn't have very good grip, nor generated enough heat to actually recharge anything).
Regarding the cost, the price is because each bike is hand-built. The only way prices will go down is if the company has enough money to invest in employees and automation, which means having to sell a ton more bikes - and it just isn't going to happen. Otherwise we'd see some of the other larger e-bike manufacturers (or maybe car manufactures) make them, too. I wish they did, but they don't.
Overall, I loved the PEBL. It was great to use as a cargo bike as well as in poor weather (like 30-degrees and rain - yuck). I wish I could get another; even though I had it insured, I felt it wasn't worth putting in another $11k and waiting a year for delivery.
Finally, Organic Transit (maker of the ELF) has been out of business a long time.
Is the PEBL still being made..thanks Steve
The company moved production to Dubai. I know someone that has been waiting over 3 years for her bike. They will not refund her money and keep stringing her along with promises of a 'few more months'. Anyone in the US with a PEBL likely got it prior to the COVID pandemic.
Nice but @10k Yikes! Now when the car bike Kits become available that would be the most economical cost effective way to build & own one of these outstanding vehicles.
Great video, Big oil needs to go. They have been controlling the high cost of everything for way too long including electricity. Vehicles like this & the Toyota BZ4X send a clear message to the monopolized oil industry that their days are numbered. Car/bike kits are The Wave of the Future.
It would be interesting to know what Aptera's watt hour consumption would be when operating within the PBBL's speed range.
With back of the envelope math, approx 30-40 wh/mi at 20 mph for the Air resistance, and rolling resistance.
Max speed on the velomobiles is still 20 MPH throttle only and max assist speed is 28 MPH. Using the bike lane plus, taking nearly the whole bike lane with this makes it much harder to pass on busy roads. Only reason I'm brining this up is because I strongly considered one years ago. I settled on a Townie go! 8i with the internal geared hub, bosch motor (top of the bicycle market), has a rack, built in rear lock, detachable battery (easier to charge at work), can easily be pedaled as a regular bike if you run out of power, and is extremely low maintenance as the hub only needs to have the cable checked once or twice a year, drive chain oiled perhaps once a year, and brake pads changed as much as twice a year and blead once a year. Cons no solar.... but the battery is 400wh and could easily be charged by a jackery with a solar panel or another portable power solution, power inverter with a cheap panel may work as well. The other great thing about this solution is being able to fit it in the back of the Aptera then driving to a free charger (if needed) and using the the e bike as a way to get to work, the store, or wherever you want to go. As far as range is concerned, minimum (at Turbo mode) is 27 miles, max is 99 miles (on eco mode). Charging at work is a breeze as it takes no more than 3 hours to charge the 400 wh battery. I figure if I drive my commute with the full solar package on the Aptera I will need 10-12 KW extra power per week. Considering the level 2 chargers near my office (we have no EV charging here) I can never pay for electricity while using a charger for less than 2 hours per week and use my ebike as a dingy if you will. I have long considered what to do when carrying multiple bikes (I'm a mountain bike enthusiast and my girlfriend likes to ride from time to time). The one truly promising though aerodynamic compromising solution is the seasucker. Oh and the townie go 8i has disc brakes now as well as classic good looks and costs $2,999. There are cheaper solutions but the entire package is really impressive in my mind. I also like the specialized turbo Vado and turbo Vado SL as they offer a much more budget friendly option with pedal assist up to 28 mph and can be easily stored in the back of the Aptera.
Way too much. This is an exploding word salad.
E-brake is you putting your feet down ala Flintstones.
That Pebble is SO pretty!
And SO obsolete. They outsourced to Germany last year, there is no current model being sold.
I live in Seattle an I don't have a car but that be cool.
Not overly expensive compared to my recumbent E-assist trikes.
Actually, cheaper than high end E-assist recumbent trikes!
I think the pebl is the best vehicle it’s new England made with pride of massachussets
PEBL is no longer made in the US. I know people that paid for a bike have been waiting over 3 years. Don't waste your time.
I want a pebl
My mom ordered a PEBL 3 years ago. The company will not refund her money. Production has moved to Dubai. It is almost a certainty if you are in the US that you will not recieve a bike.
HEY its velomobile owners club I guess
For where I live, this is too wide to belong in a bike lane and too slow to comfortably merge with automotive traffic, leaving this as a rather awkward vehicle (maybe better in suburbia or in the countryside?)
Exactly what I was thinking. This would be terrifying in big-city street traffic.
I feel comfortable riding mine in the bike lanes of San Diego.
The Pebl seems to be dead, and I can't find any info on the Elf. Can anyone help? Thanks!
organictransit was the original owner, they got it back and site is now working.
Go to the Market post office hair cuts ect.
The hemp based composite is interesting. One of the criticisms of normal composites (for things like wind turbines) is that after their finite lifespan they can't really be recycled. Maybe they can be shredded and used as filler in some cases, but you can't separate the glass or carbon fibres from the resin and reuse them. At least at the moment.
Of course with hemp composites they are probably still using harsh resins as the binder, but I guess it's at least a partly solved problem.
The Pebl is really tempting, too. Though my wife would kill me if I paid that much for something like that hahaha. My accoustic bike will have to do for now.
Sorry, the PEBL's hemp body was a disaster. It would disintegrate in hot humid climates and it was too heavy. They had a huge recall and started using fiberglass which upped the weight to 235 pounds, a disaster for a hybrid powered bike. No longer sold.
I'm pretty sure the Elf is vaporware, sadly. The News section of their website hasn't been updated since 2016. That's unfortunately true for all too many of the velomobile designs.
Edit: Looks like they went into bankruptcy and shut down in 2019, but the founder is hoping to bring them back.
It's like this thing (only in German, unfortunately, scroll into the video a bit). The founder in Germany is looking for funding to build more than just 10 units. Technically, it has much better specs and also looks better than the Pebl: ua-cam.com/video/ZlUheuXZQew/v-deo.html
4 wheels. Get ready for all kinds of regulations.
Not apples & oranges!
Research triangle in Durham North Carolina is that Lyke I am Randall hotspot
Pble
The Elf is nicer looking, but seeing the inside picture of the floor (or non-floor) I wouldn’t be buying one and especially in the $10k range. I’ve looked at a couple of sub $1,000 folding electric bikes that look interesting for carrying in Aptera.
The premium pebl goes 100 miles on a single charge
Pebl seems better than elf, they have a 100 mile model that's not too much more than the standard Pebl. 100 mile model would b the one to go with.
I have both like electric scooter it goes 80 miles an I have electric motorcycle ebike it goes 60 miles then I go to an i love my both electric motorcycle ebike then scooter it look's awesome!
Pube. Is. The. Biek
The ELF (organic Transit ) went bankrupt about 2 years ago.
If you buy all the bells and whistles on the better bike it's about 13,000 USD.
Oh and the body is no longer made of
Hemp it's made of the same type of plactic the ELF "was made " Of.
These are things I was going to add to these comments as well.
Actually the replacement body shell was fiberglass which caused the death of the company. A 235 pound bike can not be practical with a legal 750 watt motor. The ELF weighs 75 pounds less, there seems to be an unwitten rule about functional velo hybrids not being over 200 pounds. The ELF used vaccuum formed Trylon, much lighter.
Aptera starts production next year.
It's a great investment opportunity .
Image buying Apple in there first quarter of there first year. 💰
@@johnatkinson9530 Organic Transit and Arcimoto were similar new vehicles. Stock in this new category of vehicles is not hot now. The economy has to turn around. Tesla got a $465 million dollar loan to start and they have been building unsustainable obscenely over powered and heavy status symbols which we will reject in the next decade. Lighter EVs will comprise the bulk of the market soon. The 9,065 pound Chevy E-hummer contains enough materials to make 2 Teslas or 8 Arcimotos or 100 heavy duty long range ebikes, proving there is no battery mineral shortage, there is only a battery mineral squandering.
@@popeyegordon Aptera will outperform all EVs.
Aptera ... You should read about it before commenting on it blindly.
Even if you don't do any research on it... At least Google it so you know what it looks like.
But I don't have a driver license.
Whats the point of a solar car without doors 🚪??
Anyone can steal your battery, wheels or joyride. Unless you park it in garage which defeats the purpose
$10k? LOL, good luck with that. Electric bikes are only expensive if you need to buy name brand. I’ve got an electric bike off Amazon that’s been perfect for 3 yrs now that cost me $850. Without peddling it can go 20mph and last about 20 miles. $15k for an electric bike is for people who have more money then they know what to do with it.
Sure if someone wants this to drive around town but man I’d hate to drive this around in the summer or winter. At $10k I’d just buy a shitbox with liability insurance.
10k lol 😂😂 it better come with a person chef 👨🍳
How much do you spend to own and operate any car each year in the US? The average is at least $3000 every year, forever, new or used.
After driving the OT ELF as my only vehicle for 7 years I saved so much money I could pay cash for my new US made Arcimoto autocycle. And now, the three wheeled vehicle means I only give $134/yr for insurance in a state where any old car costs you at least $1000/yr to insure! Plus no gas to buy, ever. Healthy exercise and you never need to search for a parking space.
I still have my ELF too. The PEBL was too heavy, they folded and sold the rights to a German company.
I came across both these several years ago. I like them but I think the Peble is better. Check out The Great Peble Adventure from Eric: ua-cam.com/play/PLkwO4OGEvFUXrkc_n6j6semKo5Uslf5Cs.html
PEBL is SO obsolete. They outsourced to Germany last year, there is no current model being sold. Eric gave up on his over a year ago.
I would purchase for $5k
10k for a bike? I'd rather weld and fabricate body panels myself. And then spend the money saved on a bigger battery and a 1kw motor
Thousands of UA-cam braggards have posted derogatory comments like yours and yet NOT ONE OF THEM has ever built the full equivalent to the ELF. Motors over 750 watts are not legal in the US.
Seems like a scam
No these are actually available and being made
The Pebl and Elf are way too expensive. Yikes 😳
The PEBL was outsourced to Germany. Importing the new model will be too costly. There are 800 ELFs still in service - a used one runs about $2K. Let me tell you wat is too expensive: any car. I bought my last gallon of gas 8 years ago. Aftering driving the ELF as my only transportation for 7 years I saved $22,000 which was enough to pay cash for my new Arcimoto autocycle. Velomobiles need no insurance or gas or other car expenses which always add up to an average of $3000 a year. My $7000 ELF paid for itself in just three years. NOW my Arcimoto insurance costs just $132/yr where an old car would cost $1000/yr to insure. No gas to buy, no expensive motor or transmission to blow up. My Arcimoto will pay for itself completely in just 8 years compared to owning a car for that same period.
Apteras are vaporware and there is no way they are going to market carbon fiber bodies for the promised price point. A carbon fiber bicycle is $9000!
@@popeyegordon No one owns the comments here, especially not Popeye Gordon!
Better off with a second hand car at that price.
No chance. And it was very wrong for the channel owner to heart your incorrect and damaging comment. An old car costs me $1000 in insurance here in Florida, even with my perfect record. Now I drive the Arcimoto autocycle for a $132 annual cost of Allstate insurance. That's $800 a year savings every year right there. Then there is all the gas I don't buy. And no oil changes, no timing belt to break. In my lifetime I have sent two cars to the junkyard when their timing belts broke. A car given to you absolutely free still costs you more than an EV to own and operate.
The upfront cost will be cheaper, but the cost over time will easily outweigh any true financial gain.
@@Yoshikarter1 The exact opposite is true. The up front cost of EVs is higher but they are far cheaper to insure and operate. A car given to you absolutely free still costs you $3000/yr to insure, fuel, maintain and drive. My Arcimoto autocycle is saving me over $2000 every year compared to car expenses so I can say it pays for itself in 10 years while any car costs you a lot more, forever.
@@popeyegordon...That's exactly what I was saying. A used gas car will be cheaper initially, but all of the following costs will add up to the point where you'll have lost money than if you had gone electric. A bike-car will be even cheaper than an auto, gas or electric, in the long run.
@@popeyegordon No one owns the comments here, especially not Popeye Gordon!
The ELF and PEBL are too underpowered and slow for the price. Even though you need a driver's license and insurance, the tradeoff is worth it to buy the $10,000 Nimbus One or the slightly more expensive $17,900 Arimoto because they can keep up with traffic, and don't bog down on hills like the inferior underpowered ELF or PEBL do.
Apples and oranges. 20 mph limited trikes can be used on delightful safe bike paths and even sidewalks away from traffic. Nimbus needs license and insurance. The ELF was my only transportation for 7 years. It saved me so much $$ I could pay cash for my Arcimoto on my very modest retirement pension. Now I still buy no gas but I'm strapped into a 6 point harness in a certified safe roll cage and getting thrills every time those twin motors rev up, they sound like a jet turbine! That insurance is only $132/yr because I get the motorcycle rate.
Change my mind: Velomobiles are over-priced coffins. In the real world, any 4-wheel vehicle Will End the occupants of this in a collision over ~15mph. This over-sized white-boy's toy is too wide for bike lanes, and bike lanes aren't viable commute routes for the majority of Americans'. In the USA, this is a death trap. Now, in Europe, where tiny-cars are popular, these are Still a Death Trap but a more socially-acceptable one. (from an Aptera reservation owner 2007-11, 2020-current)
There are 4 cases of ELF bike-cars vs. automobile collisions. In all four cases, the occupants of the ELF were uninjured.
My issue is these vehicles arent suited for off road, if you in in rural areas, and the cost especially during this honk honk administration. No one is gonna pony up 10k
No one owns the comments here, especially not Popeye Gordon!
I own you, troll.
@@popeyegordon You own nothing. Nice try.
@JK_JK_JK clearly owns @popeyegordon