Regarding Grimcoven, I'm not sure if it's due to the AI being used to "assist" the artist, but I'm having the same issue with their mini's as I did with Tainted Grail Kings of Ruin. The monsters and people, I just don't know what I'm really looking at with them. I tried to paint my KoR mini's but couldn't tell what I was painting outside of arms and legs, which were also just odd. I get that it's unique and different, but they just looks like random worms or fabrics and extra body parts floating around. I don't really get it.
I see the AI art too, and I can't unsee it. The art just sticks out in a bad and odd way where my brain can't really comprehend it, and it feels like it's working twice as hard to make sense of it.
With Grimcoven art, i was initially struck by the kind of messy, chaotic, mono colour art style. And now whenever i see it i think "the reason its like that is to help obscure AI art flaws". So my opinion kind of immediately flipped on the art, i cant judge it fairly anymore knowing why it looks like it does. Would have much rather seen what a person would come up with using the same ideas.
Even without the AI art, which is a dealbreaker for me, the game looks terrible. They call it a boss battler but its more like 2+ hours of crisis management while you run away and level up. Not what I would call a boss battler.
Vaguely tempted by Blood. LS does a pretty solid job with minis and art. But after Isfet my wallet is still sore. Probably a safe pass since I have 4 boss battlers already.
Me and some friends took a couple hours to look over the whole grimcoven campaign page and we were losing our minds over the art. Almost every piece felt completely nonsensical, and you could see where they trimmed the background and stitched two pieces of ai art together. It feels like awaken realms is trying to push out way too many huge boardgames way too fast and there is next to no fisn8shed art ready in time for the campaign. But the ai makes polished enough looking art at a glance that as long as you dont a moment to think about what you are looking at its ok
I think awaken realms have been using Ai for a while. I first noticed it in the item cards for dragon eclipse. The art style wasn't consistent with the rest of the game.
I think Awaken Realms mini's are gradually getting worse again. It would be fun if you can delve into the spaghetti monsters of STALKER, update 33. You think it's also because of A.I.?
Awaken Realms gave a non-answer about AI when anyone can see the stuff at 17:50 is CLEARLY AI. The art looks SO bad. Like you said in your stretch pay video. People will literary buy anything for $17 a month. A few months ago, they had job postings for Midjourney designers. I think the days Awaken Realms tried to make games that stand out to build up a reputation are over. Now they just try to make games that are economically bankable surfing on that reputation they built, cutting corners here and there and segmenting their offers to maximize the profits.
Actually, Awaken Realms' official answer is that they use A.I. art, but they have human artists that touch it up. TBH, those human artists aren't doing so well with the Grimcoven campaign because I see a lot of mistakes and random stuff glopped together (like the Chimera with a weird insect head, gears that don't interlock and function on the "clockwork" giant, some kind of strange leatherface-type wolf skin mask on the face of the werewolf, calling one hero a doll instead of automaton or marionette, etc... ).
@@Gamebent1 actually, what they say is "We are using different technologies, including AI tools, to various degrees" Nowhere does it say they have human artists touch it up. Reality is that this art looks like trash and that is raising so much money shows how powerful StretchPay. People with boardgame crowdraising addictions will buy anything . It is ironic that their statement says "bring better quality to our customers" when this AI driven work looks terrible. Reality is that AI is making the bulk of this work and fan bois are lapping it up $17 per month at a time
@@Gamebent1 Actually they say "We are using different technologies, including AI tools, to various degrees" And NO point they say but they have human artists that touch it up. The AI is doing MOST of the work and the people just resave it because it looks so bad. Awaken Realms are becoming the Kardashians of Crowdfunding. Peddling plastic without any meaningful happening in the games.
Completely agree. Sadly, AR used to pull me in with cool art, but now it just looks like overdone AI slop that you see plastered all over the internet. A real bummer.
@@05insomnium yup, they now coast on their previous reputation, paid shill boardgame reviewers, AI Art and Stretchpay. The first nemesis game will be a jewel compared to this AI garbo they are now peddling
Still no GIANT SCORPIONS either as a Troop choice with a pack of giant scorpions OR as a single larger Giant Scorpion monster. Is that too much. I even told Monolith of a real Egyptian goddess whose symbol is a Scorpion, but nope we get Baboons. I like Baboons, chance to paint bright red butts and sharp teeth with brightly colored faces. Fantastic, but we need Scorpions.
@@TheKingofAverageto be fair, I’ve only backed like a total of 9 projects across all platforms 😂 But I thought Cysmic was well worth it. Just seems like a project that crowdfunding was made for. Indie artist with an awesome idea, total transparency, and competent planning/ management. And the actual gameplay is right up my alley
I’m an artist: fine, musician and writer, so I don’t need to state my position on AI stuff. It’s here and will become significantly more, not less predominant. Companies should just be open about it. It’s not a crime, I don’t appreciate it, but not being forthright is non-negotiable IMHO. This is why I found AR’s very intentional and very deceitful (very failed) misdirection on this issue exceeding problematic. Do what you do, but be open and honest with me when you’re attempting to lure $ from my pocket. This is the crux of the thing for me, personally. So long as you are shooting me straight, I may despise you and/or your product, but I will certainly respect your honesty.
So strange that AR hasn't decided on the size of the minis for Grimcoven yet, and they aren't sure if they will make a decision before the campaign ends. That's a big red flag and more than enough to make me skip the game
There are SO many red flags about that game. It looks like a mess if you actually watch the gameplay as per plenty of the overly large awaken realms games.
From what I can tell, AR is one of the few companies still putting campaigns up for super early in development games, so there's a long road ahead of actually making the game.
Thanks for giving Cysmic a shout. I'm looking forward to it so much, and I was so annoyed at what that backer did on principle. Thankfully at this point they have like 2 extra pledges to work out. For anyone who doesn't know the story, check out Update 10. It's wild. I wouldn't have been as level headed about it.
I'd like to put out that Hexplorit campaigns are some of the few campaigns that finish typically early, like the last one delivered a few months before their original estimates.
16:18 - GrimCOEven”? I though it was like grim then coven. Like, “cuhven.” But yeah. The A.I. use of A.R. is mental. I saw a box of goodies from several of their games and the fact that the reviewer I saw didn’t notice it was A.I. was baffling to me.
If AR Grimcoven graphics look unfinished it's maybe because they are not. So the q is why the campaign was rushed? Maybe the reason is LMS Blood campaign which starts roughly when AR is done? Both games are very similar, boss battlers vampiresque, even color palette looks in line. In fact maybe the reason was to get the biggest chunk out of the backers. Just thinking out loud.
Grimcoven had me...but then, all the Tainted Grail content came. I like Awaken Realms, they have interesting ideas for games, but they are a bit of a mess when it comes to content. Not nearly as bad as my experience with CMON products / content add-ons. I honestly think I'm tired of the DLC companies added to everything. Content updates, rule revisions, countless expansions. It has become a lot. I thought I wanted giant games, with tons of boxes, I was wrong. I now know I enjoy streamlined, polished, well-thought through experiences. When Kingdom Death exploded on crowdfunding, other companies saw gold. What they failed to capture was how humble and honored Mr. Poots at the KDM team is with the community around his game and IP. I'm not saying follow a 7+ year delay model, I'm just saying there is a lot of human emotions when watching videos of Poots interact with fans.
I love AR, but their art team has really been dropping the ball lately. I'm not sure what the deal is, but their style is basically obfuscate any detail and make an... impression of something.
The Conan Luxor thing is cool. You get to 'explore Stygia, but I see what looks like 2 characters to play, some mummies and I assume an evil egytpian priest. Come on. We have SET the god, Conan can fight SET himself. In fact, Conan can summon Crom and fight with Crom against Set and his followers.
I strongly recommend Hexplore it for anyone which really likes ttrpg. I love them and hexlpores campaign books are by far and way the closet facsimile to one I have ever played. Fall of ancients is 700+ page behemoth of a book fall that helps turn the hexplore it sandbox into a living breathing word. The new campaign takes the standard offering (a more approachable prettier mage knight with rpg elements and tonnes of options and optimisation) and adds tower defence, a reversal map (I.e two regions rather then one) and elemental magic to a game that already let's your characters have over 2 million options between races, traits, aspects and roles. Fancy playing a Feral Faerie Dragon Sorcerer with void magic, well know you can
I love Nemesis as Game, but AR art style just insanely bad. All their minis look ugly , overburdened with meaningless stuff….And this time I skip on that
Regarding usage of AI for boardgame design I'm totally fine as soon as the pricetag matches the lesser effort compared to have artists doing their magic. An adaptive use of AI will be the future and even if we can complain it will happen for sure. But Grimcoven is more lacking in the mechanics. It's not triggering anything and for me all the emotions I usually get by a good campaign are kinda missing here. That's for sure totally subjective but I'm simply zero interested in this one. After having the Dante campaign this one feels like lacking a lot.
I am baffled $2M didn't think the AI art blunder(s) was a gigantic red flag. Just means we're gonna be served more like this in the future because it's cheaper and quicker than doing a proper job.
I would rather companies not use AI art, especially in the finished product, but it won't stop me from buying a game if I think it looks solid (and especially if I enjoy the art I have seen, which are both true for Grimcoven). I would maybe have a different stance if I had a platform and my thoughts on the matter could impact others purchasing decisions, but I don't, so I'm going to buy the things that make me happy.
Would like to see your opinion on this new trend with miniatures where part of it is a see through plastic. Its getting more and more with shadowborne, luudus, cmon all having done it or doing it recently at least. As a painter i really dont like it, the plastic is less detailed so if you choose to spray over it looks less good (and might lover the audience if you want to sell at some point) otherwise you have to prime with a brush which makes the priming process a lot harder
I am also a painter and am not sold on the clear plastic additions. I would rather have plain minis that I can paint how I want. I like the look of the game but I might go for the standee version?
haha i'm the opposite. I don't paint so it's nice to finally have something different where it doesn't look so well...grey. (of course sometimes there are sundrop options and such)
I would like to give the Cysmic campaign two big thumbs up. I’ve backed hundreds of campaigns at this point and the experience I’ve had with this one is quite unique. The level of openness and care shown by the creator is truly something you don’t see all the time. The whole Minnesota Killjoy thing was WILD and the recounting of the facts was pretty detailed (and a bit funny, to be fair). The game looks great, the campaign has been great. The game is already funded and the stretch goals are falling steadily. Give it a shot; I believe it’s worth it.
I'm following Grimcoven out of curiosity, even the campaign is a bit boring with daylies every other day. But I won't back it, I like more grounded miniatures to paint.
Have you heard about Book of Skulls??? I’m pretty sure-ordered it cause I missed the whole campaign. Very low funding but looks like it’s still being made. Ima chance it haha
I actually like the standees more than the miniatures for Blood. I think the cards are too red/white/black monotone colors. Itd be better if the red was more blood-red than the paler red on the page. Also have the blood look more 3d with shades of red... i dont like the single red color splashed on everything.
I’m into the blood minis over grimcoven, but I’m not into the circus theme. The blood cards are killing me though, the design is just not my thing, very monotone as you said and ‘dead’ looking. Gameplay wise I think I’d prefer blood over grimcoven though
Yeah, I was looking forward to learn more about it. Especially since I missed getting Black Plague Zombicide and it was my favorite theme for zombicide.
Interesting perspective on Mythic Battles Isfet. I felt like it was underperforming a bit. Not majorly, but still a bit. You can see this in money raised but also in SG unlocked. They even limited the SG this time previous to the campaign and still likely won't reach them all. For me, MBI was pretty much the only campaign I was sure of backing this year and I ended up skipping it due to the price. I got MBP core and MBR core combined with all sleeves for about 150 € each shipped. MBI core right now would be about 170 - 180 € shipped without sleeves and with less content from the looks of it. Meanwhile, MBR core is in stores for about 130 - 140 € here in Germany. Only logical thing is to wait for retail, and I guess a lot of people see it that way. So many in fact that, if not all SG get unlocked due to people not getting it on KS, it might not be worth it in retail and I won't end up getting it at all. Kind of a dilemma, and I guess they can't really make it cheaper since prices are what they are. I guess the crowdfunding phase is ending for me, just not worth it no more.
Hmm, hard to judge a game that's had so many releases and is purposefully smaller in scope. But you might be right. I'll need to check some historical info on their campaigns too.
About the AI art, I really don't mind it as long as the product looks good. Regardless I also think it's a bit dangerous to accuse people of using AI without evidence, if it was indeed done by a human it can be quite hurtful to hear that everyone thinks your hard work was generated.
Personally I love AI art if done well. (So probably by an artist at this time.) Can't wait for Odalin. And I backed Sovereign. Lots of hot games incoming. Also interested in Sirens: The Deep Sea because of its theme but don't know what it's like.
Isfet, some sculpts might be better, but a mandatory position for me, I have backed. Grimcoven, I do not care about AI topic as long as the result will be satisfying, I have backed. Dark Blood, looks like a portable game, esthetic and you play as evil, I have backed. Blood, I was also thinking about that, I really like the bosses, but the characters not really - so I have not backed.
I might be a bit biased as I train AI and ML systems for a job, but the AI art doesn't bother me. AI Tech is advancing very quickly, and the art industry is by no means immune to advances in technology. I totally understand the opinions that it could be kinda lazy, or if a company can afford to pay actual artists they shouldn't use AI, and AI takes away from certain aspects of human produced art. I get that some times it comes off as kinda soulless...I'm totally not opposed to any of those opinions either. AI art just doesn't bother me at all personally when it's done well or has been used as a sort of aid to help alleviate artist "writer's block," to inspire new ideas an actual artist then makes, etc. I have an old degree in Digital Arts and Multimedia production and I personally think some aspects of AI tech would be a godsend if i continued making art, especially when it comes to rapidly developing something within timelines. The argument that I don't agree with is how so many people act like the inclusion of AI in any form is a "Red Flag" and should be avoided at all costs. It's not going anywhere, industries will have to adapt to it...or not. A bunch of people saying "im not buying this because AI art" or "AI Sucks" or stuff like that are going to be very disappointed over the next few years. Even Adobe has integrated ML and generative AI into it's products because someone far smarter than me realized "if you cant beat them....join them" lol. AI art can't be copyrighted but there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from redoing something AI made themselves, as a sort of inspiration and then copywriting that....just saying. You could probably make a shxt ton of money telling AI to make 2D pixel landscapes, redoing it, changing it up a bit, and making shirts and such out of it....im just personally too lazy for all that ;)
Never get why people care so much about AI art or not. The only thing matters is the end product quality. If the game/art is good then who care if it's AI? I'm sure none of you will buy a game with shit art just because it is hand made.
As for the AI art debate. Art is a subjective thing and if I think the art is cool i dont vare how it was made, and with Grimcoven i really really think it looks cool. Yes the legs of the vampire have to be changed, but otherwise its an amazing different take on a vampire. And both the doll and the jester looks really cool
AI art doesn't matter to me especially for minis since the actual minis won't have all the details. They also have had textures added for some other campaigns. So, anyway, it's all made up until the miniature moulds are made. And BTW, I didnt back the game because I still have boss battlers to get to the table. Don't need another game to sit on my shelves.
Except if you're also paying for the privilege of enjoying good art in context, which is typical. It's not like most people would pay for anything below the 95th percentile of best games ever if they looked like trash.
Here I'd have to disagree with you. If art didn't matter then we should be playing all games with literal sticks and stones we find outside, paired with a plain text rulebook. For some people this is okay, just like some can play DnD without any physical components at all, and just play raw rules and theory of mind. For the vast majority though, they prefer more. And if a company is charging for physical components (the board game) then ideally you the buyer are happy with those components :)
There are games with minimal or no art, such as a lot of Cheapass Games stuff, and they can be fun to play. But if you're paying for a premium product [and for a game charging anywhere from $60 to $200 for its experience, it qualifies], then you want a certain level of quality. If the game was being released at $30 in Target, then most folks wouldn't really care that much if it was using AI art.
Probably because A.I. art includes mistakes and unrealistic depictions. It's easy to spot, and for Grimcoven, a lot of the art includes random elements that look glopped together instead of being thoughtfully designed.
I actually have less issue with AI art than a lot of people, when done well (which means heavily iterated on or touched up by a human). My problem here is just how nonsensical it is in Grimcoven. It's just not even well done AI art and it seems little care has been put into it before presenting it to backers.
I'm so glad you were able to boost your fragile ego by making ignorant assumptions and insulting random people you don't know and have never met. Also, it's spelled "whining" (or whinging if you're British).
@@Dragon7398 Ever worked with one of them ? They`re stuck-up snobs who like the smell of their own farts.... And theft ? If your "Talent" can be stolen by a machine, then you had 0 to begin with... Regardless of how much you whine - AI art is here to stay and there is no going back
Regarding Grimcoven, I'm not sure if it's due to the AI being used to "assist" the artist, but I'm having the same issue with their mini's as I did with Tainted Grail Kings of Ruin. The monsters and people, I just don't know what I'm really looking at with them. I tried to paint my KoR mini's but couldn't tell what I was painting outside of arms and legs, which were also just odd. I get that it's unique and different, but they just looks like random worms or fabrics and extra body parts floating around. I don't really get it.
Over time they’ve gotten a messier and messier style of over-designed miniatures.
I see the AI art too, and I can't unsee it. The art just sticks out in a bad and odd way where my brain can't really comprehend it, and it feels like it's working twice as hard to make sense of it.
With Grimcoven art, i was initially struck by the kind of messy, chaotic, mono colour art style. And now whenever i see it i think "the reason its like that is to help obscure AI art flaws". So my opinion kind of immediately flipped on the art, i cant judge it fairly anymore knowing why it looks like it does. Would have much rather seen what a person would come up with using the same ideas.
Sounds like we're similar. I didn't mind stuff like Etherfields nearly as much. But the dream style of it all worked in its favor I think.
I wish grimcoven wasn’t a prototype. Doesn’t feel right, basically I feel that I don’t know what the final product is like.
Even without the AI art, which is a dealbreaker for me, the game looks terrible.
They call it a boss battler but its more like 2+ hours of crisis management while you run away and level up. Not what I would call a boss battler.
Vaguely tempted by Blood. LS does a pretty solid job with minis and art. But after Isfet my wallet is still sore. Probably a safe pass since I have 4 boss battlers already.
Me and some friends took a couple hours to look over the whole grimcoven campaign page and we were losing our minds over the art. Almost every piece felt completely nonsensical, and you could see where they trimmed the background and stitched two pieces of ai art together. It feels like awaken realms is trying to push out way too many huge boardgames way too fast and there is next to no fisn8shed art ready in time for the campaign. But the ai makes polished enough looking art at a glance that as long as you dont a moment to think about what you are looking at its ok
I think awaken realms have been using Ai for a while. I first noticed it in the item cards for dragon eclipse. The art style wasn't consistent with the rest of the game.
I think Awaken Realms mini's are gradually getting worse again. It would be fun if you can delve into the spaghetti monsters of STALKER, update 33. You think it's also because of A.I.?
Awaken Realms gave a non-answer about AI when anyone can see the stuff at 17:50 is CLEARLY AI. The art looks SO bad. Like you said in your stretch pay video. People will literary buy anything for $17 a month. A few months ago, they had job postings for Midjourney designers. I think the days Awaken Realms tried to make games that stand out to build up a reputation are over. Now they just try to make games that are economically bankable surfing on that reputation they built, cutting corners here and there and segmenting their offers to maximize the profits.
Actually, Awaken Realms' official answer is that they use A.I. art, but they have human artists that touch it up. TBH, those human artists aren't doing so well with the Grimcoven campaign because I see a lot of mistakes and random stuff glopped together (like the Chimera with a weird insect head, gears that don't interlock and function on the "clockwork" giant, some kind of strange leatherface-type wolf skin mask on the face of the werewolf, calling one hero a doll instead of automaton or marionette, etc... ).
@@Gamebent1 actually, what they say is "We are using different technologies, including AI tools, to various degrees" Nowhere does it say they have human artists touch it up. Reality is that this art looks like trash and that is raising so much money shows how powerful StretchPay. People with boardgame crowdraising addictions will buy anything . It is ironic that their statement says "bring better quality to our customers" when this AI driven work looks terrible. Reality is that AI is making the bulk of this work and fan bois are lapping it up $17 per month at a time
@@Gamebent1 Actually they say "We are using different technologies, including AI tools, to various degrees" And NO point they say but they have human artists that touch it up. The AI is doing MOST of the work and the people just resave it because it looks so bad. Awaken Realms are becoming the Kardashians of Crowdfunding. Peddling plastic without any meaningful happening in the games.
Completely agree. Sadly, AR used to pull me in with cool art, but now it just looks like overdone AI slop that you see plastered all over the internet. A real bummer.
@@05insomnium yup, they now coast on their previous reputation, paid shill boardgame reviewers, AI Art and Stretchpay. The first nemesis game will be a jewel compared to this AI garbo they are now peddling
Still no GIANT SCORPIONS either as a Troop choice with a pack of giant scorpions OR as a single larger Giant Scorpion monster. Is that too much. I even told Monolith of a real Egyptian goddess whose symbol is a Scorpion, but nope we get Baboons. I like Baboons, chance to paint bright red butts and sharp teeth with brightly colored faces. Fantastic, but we need Scorpions.
I’m fully aboard that Cysmic hype train. First all-in I’ve ever done
First all-in? Wow!
@@TheKingofAverageto be fair, I’ve only backed like a total of 9 projects across all platforms 😂
But I thought Cysmic was well worth it. Just seems like a project that crowdfunding was made for. Indie artist with an awesome idea, total transparency, and competent planning/ management. And the actual gameplay is right up my alley
I’m an artist: fine, musician and writer, so I don’t need to state my position on AI stuff. It’s here and will become significantly more, not less predominant. Companies should just be open about it. It’s not a crime, I don’t appreciate it, but not being forthright is non-negotiable IMHO. This is why I found AR’s very intentional and very deceitful (very failed) misdirection on this issue exceeding problematic.
Do what you do, but be open and honest with me when you’re attempting to lure $ from my pocket. This is the crux of the thing for me, personally. So long as you are shooting me straight, I may despise you and/or your product, but I will certainly respect your honesty.
So strange that AR hasn't decided on the size of the minis for Grimcoven yet, and they aren't sure if they will make a decision before the campaign ends.
That's a big red flag and more than enough to make me skip the game
There are SO many red flags about that game. It looks like a mess if you actually watch the gameplay as per plenty of the overly large awaken realms games.
From what I can tell, AR is one of the few companies still putting campaigns up for super early in development games, so there's a long road ahead of actually making the game.
Thanks for giving Cysmic a shout. I'm looking forward to it so much, and I was so annoyed at what that backer did on principle. Thankfully at this point they have like 2 extra pledges to work out.
For anyone who doesn't know the story, check out Update 10. It's wild. I wouldn't have been as level headed about it.
I think the time delay in response helped.level heads :)
I'd like to put out that Hexplorit campaigns are some of the few campaigns that finish typically early, like the last one delivered a few months before their original estimates.
Coven is pronounced with a short o sound. Sounds like kuh-vn
Is it? Ugh now I gotta undo 30+ years of habit.
Yay for Cysmic!
16:18 - GrimCOEven”? I though it was like grim then coven.
Like, “cuhven.”
But yeah. The A.I. use of A.R. is mental. I saw a box of goodies from several of their games and the fact that the reviewer I saw didn’t notice it was A.I. was baffling to me.
If AR Grimcoven graphics look unfinished it's maybe because they are not. So the q is why the campaign was rushed? Maybe the reason is LMS Blood campaign which starts roughly when AR is done? Both games are very similar, boss battlers vampiresque, even color palette looks in line. In fact maybe the reason was to get the biggest chunk out of the backers. Just thinking out loud.
Grimcoven had me...but then, all the Tainted Grail content came. I like Awaken Realms, they have interesting ideas for games, but they are a bit of a mess when it comes to content. Not nearly as bad as my experience with CMON products / content add-ons. I honestly think I'm tired of the DLC companies added to everything. Content updates, rule revisions, countless expansions. It has become a lot. I thought I wanted giant games, with tons of boxes, I was wrong. I now know I enjoy streamlined, polished, well-thought through experiences. When Kingdom Death exploded on crowdfunding, other companies saw gold. What they failed to capture was how humble and honored Mr. Poots at the KDM team is with the community around his game and IP. I'm not saying follow a 7+ year delay model, I'm just saying there is a lot of human emotions when watching videos of Poots interact with fans.
I love AR, but their art team has really been dropping the ball lately. I'm not sure what the deal is, but their style is basically obfuscate any detail and make an... impression of something.
The Conan Luxor thing is cool. You get to 'explore Stygia, but I see what looks like 2 characters to play, some mummies and I assume an evil egytpian priest. Come on. We have SET the god, Conan can fight SET himself. In fact, Conan can summon Crom and fight with Crom against Set and his followers.
I strongly recommend Hexplore it for anyone which really likes ttrpg. I love them and hexlpores campaign books are by far and way the closet facsimile to one I have ever played. Fall of ancients is 700+ page behemoth of a book fall that helps turn the hexplore it sandbox into a living breathing word. The new campaign takes the standard offering (a more approachable prettier mage knight with rpg elements and tonnes of options and optimisation) and adds tower defence, a reversal map (I.e two regions rather then one) and elemental magic to a game that already let's your characters have over 2 million options between races, traits, aspects and roles. Fancy playing a Feral Faerie Dragon Sorcerer with void magic, well know you can
I love Nemesis as Game, but AR art style just insanely bad. All their minis look ugly , overburdened with meaningless stuff….And this time I skip on that
Regarding usage of AI for boardgame design I'm totally fine as soon as the pricetag matches the lesser effort compared to have artists doing their magic. An adaptive use of AI will be the future and even if we can complain it will happen for sure. But Grimcoven is more lacking in the mechanics. It's not triggering anything and for me all the emotions I usually get by a good campaign are kinda missing here. That's for sure totally subjective but I'm simply zero interested in this one. After having the Dante campaign this one feels like lacking a lot.
I am baffled $2M didn't think the AI art blunder(s) was a gigantic red flag. Just means we're gonna be served more like this in the future because it's cheaper and quicker than doing a proper job.
You should cover Tsukuyumi: Full Moon Down, just started its campaign yesterday on kickstarter.
I would rather companies not use AI art, especially in the finished product, but it won't stop me from buying a game if I think it looks solid (and especially if I enjoy the art I have seen, which are both true for Grimcoven). I would maybe have a different stance if I had a platform and my thoughts on the matter could impact others purchasing decisions, but I don't, so I'm going to buy the things that make me happy.
Amen to that! ❤
Oooh I thought Hexplore It is next month
Would like to see your opinion on this new trend with miniatures where part of it is a see through plastic. Its getting more and more with shadowborne, luudus, cmon all having done it or doing it recently at least. As a painter i really dont like it, the plastic is less detailed so if you choose to spray over it looks less good (and might lover the audience if you want to sell at some point) otherwise you have to prime with a brush which makes the priming process a lot harder
I am also a painter and am not sold on the clear plastic additions. I would rather have plain minis that I can paint how I want. I like the look of the game but I might go for the standee version?
haha i'm the opposite. I don't paint so it's nice to finally have something different where it doesn't look so well...grey. (of course sometimes there are sundrop options and such)
Nice ones
Troll
I would like to give the Cysmic campaign two big thumbs up.
I’ve backed hundreds of campaigns at this point and the experience I’ve had with this one is quite unique.
The level of openness and care shown by the creator is truly something you don’t see all the time. The whole Minnesota Killjoy thing was WILD and the recounting of the facts was pretty detailed (and a bit funny, to be fair).
The game looks great, the campaign has been great. The game is already funded and the stretch goals are falling steadily. Give it a shot; I believe it’s worth it.
I'm following Grimcoven out of curiosity, even the campaign is a bit boring with daylies every other day. But I won't back it, I like more grounded miniatures to paint.
Have you heard about Book of Skulls??? I’m pretty sure-ordered it cause I missed the whole campaign. Very low funding but looks like it’s still being made. Ima chance it haha
Yes!!! Two videos!!! Feed the all hungry and voracious algorithm!!! Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn
Bless you :D
I backed Grimcoven - but I do feel icky that it's AI Art. It really depends on where you stand on the whole issue.
I actually like the standees more than the miniatures for Blood. I think the cards are too red/white/black monotone colors. Itd be better if the red was more blood-red than the paler red on the page. Also have the blood look more 3d with shades of red... i dont like the single red color splashed on everything.
I’m into the blood minis over grimcoven, but I’m not into the circus theme. The blood cards are killing me though, the design is just not my thing, very monotone as you said and ‘dead’ looking. Gameplay wise I think I’d prefer blood over grimcoven though
Zombicide Plague Bearers got postponed
Yeah, I was looking forward to learn more about it. Especially since I missed getting Black Plague Zombicide and it was my favorite theme for zombicide.
Interesting perspective on Mythic Battles Isfet. I felt like it was underperforming a bit. Not majorly, but still a bit. You can see this in money raised but also in SG unlocked. They even limited the SG this time previous to the campaign and still likely won't reach them all.
For me, MBI was pretty much the only campaign I was sure of backing this year and I ended up skipping it due to the price. I got MBP core and MBR core combined with all sleeves for about 150 € each shipped. MBI core right now would be about 170 - 180 € shipped without sleeves and with less content from the looks of it. Meanwhile, MBR core is in stores for about 130 - 140 € here in Germany. Only logical thing is to wait for retail, and I guess a lot of people see it that way. So many in fact that, if not all SG get unlocked due to people not getting it on KS, it might not be worth it in retail and I won't end up getting it at all.
Kind of a dilemma, and I guess they can't really make it cheaper since prices are what they are. I guess the crowdfunding phase is ending for me, just not worth it no more.
Hmm, hard to judge a game that's had so many releases and is purposefully smaller in scope. But you might be right. I'll need to check some historical info on their campaigns too.
There won't be retail this time, so no change it happens again.
Holy lint roller Batman!! Love ya!
hahaha sometimes having a good camera is not so great :P
About the AI art, I really don't mind it as long as the product looks good. Regardless I also think it's a bit dangerous to accuse people of using AI without evidence, if it was indeed done by a human it can be quite hurtful to hear that everyone thinks your hard work was generated.
Personally I love AI art if done well. (So probably by an artist at this time.)
Can't wait for Odalin. And I backed Sovereign.
Lots of hot games incoming. Also interested in Sirens: The Deep Sea because of its theme but don't know what it's like.
Isfet, some sculpts might be better, but a mandatory position for me, I have backed.
Grimcoven, I do not care about AI topic as long as the result will be satisfying, I have backed.
Dark Blood, looks like a portable game, esthetic and you play as evil, I have backed.
Blood, I was also thinking about that, I really like the bosses, but the characters not really - so I have not backed.
I might be a bit biased as I train AI and ML systems for a job, but the AI art doesn't bother me. AI Tech is advancing very quickly, and the art industry is by no means immune to advances in technology. I totally understand the opinions that it could be kinda lazy, or if a company can afford to pay actual artists they shouldn't use AI, and AI takes away from certain aspects of human produced art. I get that some times it comes off as kinda soulless...I'm totally not opposed to any of those opinions either.
AI art just doesn't bother me at all personally when it's done well or has been used as a sort of aid to help alleviate artist "writer's block," to inspire new ideas an actual artist then makes, etc. I have an old degree in Digital Arts and Multimedia production and I personally think some aspects of AI tech would be a godsend if i continued making art, especially when it comes to rapidly developing something within timelines.
The argument that I don't agree with is how so many people act like the inclusion of AI in any form is a "Red Flag" and should be avoided at all costs. It's not going anywhere, industries will have to adapt to it...or not. A bunch of people saying "im not buying this because AI art" or "AI Sucks" or stuff like that are going to be very disappointed over the next few years. Even Adobe has integrated ML and generative AI into it's products because someone far smarter than me realized "if you cant beat them....join them" lol.
AI art can't be copyrighted but there's absolutely nothing stopping anyone from redoing something AI made themselves, as a sort of inspiration and then copywriting that....just saying.
You could probably make a shxt ton of money telling AI to make 2D pixel landscapes, redoing it, changing it up a bit, and making shirts and such out of it....im just personally too lazy for all that ;)
Never get why people care so much about AI art or not. The only thing matters is the end product quality. If the game/art is good then who care if it's AI? I'm sure none of you will buy a game with shit art just because it is hand made.
I don't care about AI art use. Art is already significantly empowered by tech, to draw an arbitrary line at "AI" is silly.
As for the AI art debate. Art is a subjective thing and if I think the art is cool i dont vare how it was made, and with Grimcoven i really really think it looks cool. Yes the legs of the vampire have to be changed, but otherwise its an amazing different take on a vampire. And both the doll and the jester looks really cool
AI art doesn't matter to me especially for minis since the actual minis won't have all the details. They also have had textures added for some other campaigns. So, anyway, it's all made up until the miniature moulds are made.
And BTW, I didnt back the game because I still have boss battlers to get to the table. Don't need another game to sit on my shelves.
AI artwork doesn’t matter to me, especially when it pertains to AR games.
Dont mind AI art if it would actually bring the price down
There is that :D
Image in Mythic Games used AI art they might still be in business! LOL
As I understood, Grimcoven uses AI for the campaign and prototype designs. I have no problem with that. They will however redo everything by hand.
Oh, sweet summer child....
My opinion is that if it is AI art, what does that matter, as long as the game is good. You are playing for the game, not for the art.
Except if you're also paying for the privilege of enjoying good art in context, which is typical. It's not like most people would pay for anything
below the 95th percentile of best games ever if they looked like trash.
Here I'd have to disagree with you. If art didn't matter then we should be playing all games with literal sticks and stones we find outside, paired with a plain text rulebook.
For some people this is okay, just like some can play DnD without any physical components at all, and just play raw rules and theory of mind.
For the vast majority though, they prefer more. And if a company is charging for physical components (the board game) then ideally you the buyer are happy with those components :)
There are games with minimal or no art, such as a lot of Cheapass Games stuff, and they can be fun to play. But if you're paying for a premium product [and for a game charging anywhere from $60 to $200 for its experience, it qualifies], then you want a certain level of quality.
If the game was being released at $30 in Target, then most folks wouldn't really care that much if it was using AI art.
Are you sure it's AI or brain plays tricks on you 🤔 and why do you care soooo much?
Probably because A.I. art includes mistakes and unrealistic depictions. It's easy to spot, and for Grimcoven, a lot of the art includes random elements that look glopped together instead of being thoughtfully designed.
I actually have less issue with AI art than a lot of people, when done well (which means heavily iterated on or touched up by a human). My problem here is just how nonsensical it is in Grimcoven. It's just not even well done AI art and it seems little care has been put into it before presenting it to backers.
Yes, it`s just you with the AI crap. It`s here to stay, regardless of the amount of whinning the talentless ppl do
I'm so glad you were able to boost your fragile ego by making ignorant assumptions and insulting random people you don't know and have never met.
Also, it's spelled "whining" (or whinging if you're British).
Because it takes so much talent to write a prompt?
If a company is going to make hundreds of thousands of dollars on a board game, why not pay for an actual artist, rather than support AI theft?
@@bjhale talent ? no, but patience like when dealing with artists - yep, about as much
@@Dragon7398 Ever worked with one of them ? They`re stuck-up snobs who like the smell of their own farts.... And theft ? If your "Talent" can be stolen by a machine, then you had 0 to begin with... Regardless of how much you whine - AI art is here to stay and there is no going back