Kato Unitrack Turnout Operation using Toggle and Pushbutton Switches
Вставка
- Опубліковано 26 лип 2024
- NOTE: THE TWO LEDS CAN BE CONNECTED VIA A SINGLE RESISTOR RATHER THAN TWO SEPARATE RESISTORS
This video covers a basic circuit used to operate a Kato Turnout using a Toggle Switch and a Momentary Pushbutton Switch.
The circuit is explained in detail and then followed by a practical demonstration.
There are various other ways of operating the Kato Turnout, this is the way I did it before I moved over to operating my turnouts using DCC.
You will need:
1 x DPDT ON-ON Toggle Switch (1 per turnout)
1 x Momentary Pushbutton Switch (1 per turnout)
12V DC power supply (I would recommend getting a 2 Amp or greater power supply if you are purchasing a new one)
Wire
Solder
If you want to add LEDs:
2 x Green LEDs (3mm or 5mm)
2 x 680 ohm or 1000 ohm resistors
or
2 x Bipolar LEDs (3mm or 5mm)
2 x 680 ohm resistors
Australian T Trak website sites.google.com/view/austral...
T Trak, Ntrak website www.ntrak.org
Kato Unitrack website www.unitrack-kato.com/ - Авто та транспорт
Hi John
Just getting back into the hobby , my electrics are a little rusty.
Your detailed tutorial here has inspired me.
Modelling North America 1970s..
Subscribed
Phil
Perth
Western Australia
Hi Phil , welcome, and thanks for subscribing. I have a couple of other videos in relation to operating Kato Turnouts using alternate methods that you may be interested in. John
Thank you John for letting me know about that. I didn't realize that I don't want to ruin my switch track that way.
Thank you for your time
Sincerely
Allan
Any time!
Superb explanation - at last I understand (I think!) how it works - very many thanks for sharing.
Thanks very much Alex for your kind comment, glad it helped. John
Thank you for those schematics. It really helps to see all the connections
No worries, Michael, thanks for watching. John
Really well put together video. Thanks so much for making this!
Thanks for watching and for your kind comment, really appreciated. John
Nice video and by scrolling through the comments I had all my questions answered. Thanks 👍🏽👍🏽🚂
Hi Stephen, that's great to hear. Thanks!
great video. i plan to use Kato track when I build the big kahuna so this is useful for me, thanks John. :)
Ooh, the big kahuna is coming! Look forward forward to it!
That was a perfect video. Well explained, working diagrams along with the actual model. Nicely done!
Thanks very much Anthony, it took some doing to get all those diagrams right!
I beg to differ. While it is indeed an excellent video that had simple, and easy to follow explanations, an ample number of illustrations, with pertinent information delivered in a vocalization which was clear, and spoke at a decent speed that not only was easy to follow, and understand, but required no effort to try to keep up with. Yet, there was at least one element which the narrator had overlooked. He failed to mention which pin should be connected to the red wire, and which one to the black wire. Of course, if you are using the standard wire plug connector intended for this turnout, then all is good because there is only one way for the plug to connect, so you can't crosswire it. Yet, for those of us who will solder our wiring directly onto the pins, we are left without knowledge that would prove beneficial to possess upon wiring our tracks. Yet, it is still a superb, informative, and useful video, but I had to argue against it being perfect. It may have been perfect for your needs, but it isn't perfect for everyone needs, and unfortunately, this video was not intended just for you.
Excellent ,I use kato points and a bit fed up with the large point switches, so will change to these on my next layout ,thanks
Thanks Colin
Interesting video John and well explained, I always wondered why Kato only used 2 wires when traditional point motors use 3 wires. Now I Know 😁 All the best Tony
Hi Tony, thanks, yes a simple polarity reversal. Cheers John
wow ..... what a goat rope.... thanks for the info... I was hoping it was simpler.
Great video an presentation on how to wire up switch toggles, definitely will be using this for my layout!!!! I subbed to your channel as well!!!
Thanks very much Chris glad you found it useful. Do you currently have a layout or are you going to start one? John
I have this exact turnout control system installed on my layout using Kato N scale Unitrack- I love it! It gives a sense of realism as you need to select the route first, then push the button to activate. Using the Bi-Polar LED's means you can check at a glance which way the turnout is selected - I tend to hit the button again if I'm not sure whether I did it first time around... Excellent video, very well explained...(I am in Melbourne, Australia).
Hi Greg, thanks for your kind words. I totally agree with you I did originally have a small control panel using the switches/LEDs but then start turning to operating my turnouts via computer.t I would like to revisit the option of a control panel again with the switches and LEDs. John (also in Melb, Oz!)
Thank you for the very clear explanation. However.... There is a far more easy way by using a single pole change over switch. No need for it being momantairy at all. It goes like this: Plus from power supply (12VDC at least. 15VDC works better) to one of the change over contacts of the switch. Minus of the power supply to the other change over contact of the switch. Connect the center or common of the switch directly to one end of the coil. Now comes the trick: In series with the coil, connect a 1000uF 25VDC capacitor (if not working satisfactory use a 2200uF 25VDC type!) from the coil to the minus of the power supply. Mind the polairity of the capacitor! The position of the change over switch can be left alone, no pulses or reset needed. The short current pulse the coil needs is provided by charging or discharging the capacitor. After changing the position there will be no current running at all through the coil since the capacitor blocks DC current. When one uses a dpdt change over switch, the 2nd pair of contacts can switch something else, like two leds or anything else. Two anti parallel switched LED's directly from the center contact of the 2nd contact pair, which also have been connected to plus and minus of the power supply, or even the same pair of contacts as the coil uses, connected to a (at least) 1K resistor to the plus and a 1k resistor to the minus. The center of the two resistors therefore are both used as half of the power. In that case one only needs two wires to a semaphore, consisting of a green and red LED. Of course the change over contact can also exist as one (of a pair) relay driven contacts. This gives the oppertunity of automatic control of any kind.
Thanks for watching
Thank You. For that information I can use on my kato turnouts
No worries, Bruce, thanks for watching!
@@wimbletrain your quite welcome 🙏
Excellent stuff John 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 I wish I had discovered Kato track before PECO code 55 🤬 Very best wishes from The Emerald Isle ☘️
G'day Paul, thank you for your kind words. Yes the only reason I started using Kato (I've probably mentioned this before somewhere) is that I had limited space originally for a layout and saw this modular system at a model railway exhibition. Now that I have more room, and if I didn't have my current setup, I would probably have gone a non modular layout using Peco. Cheers John
This was great, and came at a good time. Well done, easy to follow. Liked and sub'd and hope you make more.
Thankyou very much Jaye, I have made another more recent video which uses a momentary toggle switch and a latching relay if you are interested in checking that out. Cheers John
Nicely done video, well organized and presented. I switched to push button control after trying my hand at controlling turnouts with a DCC throttle, which I found slow and awkward. I like simplicity, and having a two step process for flipping turnouts seems potentially confusing for operators. I have 27 turnouts on my Kato Unitrack N-Scale layout, all controlled by fascia mounted push buttons through Digitrax DS-64's. Power is supplied by a Digitrax booster unit on a separate bus line dedicated to the turnouts. All the turnouts are readily visible to the operators so there's no need for LED's to show the direction of travel. This system has been in place over a year now and works very well, with no complaints from my operators.
Thanks Thomas, the system with the DS-64s sounds good. I'm currently using DCC for my turnouts but I would like to use something like a button/switch to actually do it manually. The biggest issue I have because my layout is made up of modules which I change around on the odd occasion I would have to have some sort of push-button control panel that would somehow interface into my Digikeijs DR5000 and send a DCC address out to operate the turnouts no matter which module they are on. What I mean is that I can't really have a control panel with switches and run wires to each module. John
LEDs: wire these through a single 680 Ohm resistor. This will prevent the full 12V reverse voltage being applied to the “off” diode. Most LEDs are rated at around 5V reverse voltage.
Hi David, Yes, you are correct. LED datasheets show a reverse voltage of 5V. There's a bit of discussion/research/testing out there saying that LEDs can take a higher reverse voltage. I have done it this way so that I can independently change the resistor value to get the LED brightness I want for each LED if using different colours for each one. So far, I have had no issues. I'm not saying this is right as the datasheets say otherwise. I have added a note in the video description with the mod you suggested. Thanks for your feedback.
Awesome !!
Thanks very much
Nicely presented instructions. Thanks! I have one question: my local electronics store sells 680ohm resistors in a variety of wattages -- 1/4 watt, 1/2 watt, 1 watt, and 2 watt. As I'm unfamiliar with resistors which wattage would you recommend?
Hi Gary, thankyou for you comments. Yes the wattage is something I forgot about - oops! I would use 1/2 watt resistors. John
This has by been by far the most clear and concise demonstration on how to power Kato turnouts that I have so far come across. Well done! As a Unitrack user myself, I’ve been putting off any attempts so far at constructing a control panel of any kind, I just know I don’t care for the turnout controls that Kato offers. So for now I just switch them manually.
One question though. I know I’ve seen a previous video somewhere that only uses one switch to activate the turnout. I would think a single switch would result in a less cluttered control panel. What are your thoughts on this?
Again, thanks for the excellent video. Cheers from Canada! 🇨🇦
Hello Canada! Thank you for you kind comments.
Yes you can leave out the pushbutton switch by using a DPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON) Toggle switch in place of the DPDT ON-ON. (The brackets around the ON means momentary)
The DPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON) is a momentary switch where if you push it either up or down it will spring back to the centre OFF position when you let it go (i.e. it provides a momentary pulse of the 12V to the turnout). However in this case there are a couple of issues that arise:
1) The toggle switch will always be in the middle so by visually looking at the toggle switch on the control panel you cannot tell which direction the turnout is in currently.
2) The LEDs will not be lit when the toggle switch is in the off position, they will only briefly come on when you operate the toggle switch. In this case we would need to create some extra circuitry to operate the LEDs (something I have never researched).
However, on my control panel that I used in the past (which I did a very brief video on (ua-cam.com/video/en39135I0so/v-deo.html) I came up with a modification to the circuit used in this video (the one with the bipolar LEDs). I added a relay to replace the pushbutton on each turnout and then had one master pushbutton to operate the turnouts. This way you would just set the toggle switches to the route you wanted (on multiple turnouts) and then one pushbutton would operate all of the turnouts that needed switching. I feel like another video may be coming to show this! Cheers and thanks for watching, John
@@wimbletrain Many thanks for your informative reply. Wiring layouts has never been my strong suit so I’ve tended to keep things simple and have never attempted a control panel of any kind. I truly envy those who can wrap their heads around electronic stuff.
We’ve recently moved into a new (and hopefully our last) home and I’ve just started on a new layout in a dedicated space allocated just for it in a spare basement bedroom. This time I hope to do all the wiring properly and videos like yours are an immense source of motivation to get things done.
Thanks for taking the time to share your knowledge. As always I’ll be looking forward to your next video.
Frank.
Excellent video, John. I am getting ready to use the R6 turnout on my new DCC layout. The question that I am still very confused about is do the diverging and/or straight exits from the turnout need to be insulated with insuljoiners?
Hello, I haven't insulated any of the #6 turnouts on my layout. I guess the only time you may need to insulate them if you had two loops connected together you may want to have them isolated from each other in case you ever run into issues with a short on the track.
I'd love a turntable unfortunately I don't have the room! Interesting vid though thanks☮️
Thanks for watching and your comment. John
Hello. That was a fascinating video. I'm just looking at Kato Unitrack for the first time and am wondering whether to pursue it or not. I like the idea of the built in point motors but I seem to have the same question as some of your other contributors, namely why you need the momentary push switch.
I am not an electrical expert by any means but I could not understand why this button switch was necessary. Why does the directional switch not do the required job by itself, switching the points and changing the lights?
If you take it away does the constant electrical flow to one side or the other of the points overload or burn out any part of the circuit?
Please answer me in as simple terms as possible bearing in mind I am a bit of a thicky where this is concerned.
Thanks.
Hi, with the Kato switch only a brief pulse of voltage is required hence the quick press of the push button. Omitting the push button will apply a permanent voltage to the Kato turnout which will cause damage.
I also have the Kato DC controller (22-018) and one of the Kato 24-840 Turnout control switch. The Kato Turnout control switch only provides a short burst of voltage when operated.
You can swap out the switch in my video with a DPDT momentary (mom-off-mom) and eliminate the push button. A video on this is in the planning stage. John
Great Video John. If I was to do do this same thing on a previously non-wired HO Scale PECO turnout what rails would need powered?
HI, with the Peco turnouts, you need to buy a point motor to operate it via a pushbutton/toggle switch. You can search online to see the different options available.
I'm having trouble figuring out why you'd bother with a push button instead of just using the switch directly
Hi Bob, I have done another video on just using a momentary toggle switch. I like to show different options, and the viewer can decide which way they would like to go.
Excellent video. 2 questions tho. Why use momentary switch button? How do u wire a 3 lead bipolar led as I see most have 3 wires.
Hello and thankyou. You can also do without the pushbutton but then the toggle switch needs to be momentary. Please check out a later video I did which explains this option. It would be easier if you want to use a bipolar LED just to get a 2 wire one. The point of using 2 separate LEDs is so that you can easily see on the control panel where the Kato switch is.
I believe you are using a Double Pole Single Throw (DPST) switch. A double throw switch would have a center position and it would move 2 directions. Some DP switch are center off and some have a circuit in the center position. Since your switch just moves back and forth with no center position it is a DPST.
Hi, the switch I am using is definitely a DPDT as it has 6 connections. A DPST only has 4 connections on it and is just basically 2 separate on-off switches.
Love your video, thanks you. Would like to seek your advice whether if we just use the toggle switch without the momentarily push button, will that going to works also, if not why it don't works without the momentary switch?
Hi, you can not use this setup without the momentary switch. The Kato turnout only needs a short pulse of the 12v. If you apply permanent 12v you may damage the turnout. However I did make another video where only a momentary toggle switch is used : ua-cam.com/video/Kid2zlE7svE/v-deo.html
Thanks. Unfortunately I'm not using Kato but I am with Tomix fine track. Hopefully it works the same way as the Kato too.
I did it with my Tomix tracks after adding in a push button and it works wonderfully well, really appreciate for all your videos and especially the one which you did on the reverse loop. ❤
@mrthomasyip That's great to hear, and it's good to know that it works with Tomix turnouts.
Hi! Great video. Got a few questions for you....1) I've got about 28 sets of switches I'm looking at using. Can they all share the same "Momentary pushbutton switch"? 2) How many Amps would I need to support such a number of switches? (All the same Kato Brand switches) and 3) if I wanted to add a "safety" LED (i.e. to check if the pushbutton switch had failed to "ON") would it simply be a case of putting a single LED into series circuit between the Pushbutton switch and track? Cheers!
Hi Andrew and thanks. I did experiment with using 1 master pushbutton switch but this meant each previous pushbutton switch (1 for each turnout) was replaced by a relay for each turnout. The master pushbutton would then control all the relays at the same time. I only experimented with 6 at once and had to use a 12V 3A power supply to make it work. I do have a newer video where I do away with the pushbutton switch and use a latching relay for each turnout. I'm not sure what you mean by point number 3. Cheers. John
@@wimbletrain Thanks for getting back to me. I've been looking at your other video and may very well take that approach instead. With regards to point number 3, I was referring to a failure condition of the pushbutton whereby it fails to "on". My concern was if it were controlling a large number of switches such a failure condition could burn out all the switches. Having a simple LED in the loop would help as it would be stuck "on" if there's a fault.
@@andrewbritto2243 Aha, I see what you mean now. I would put a LED in series with a resistor across the red and black wires of the turnout. The LED would need to be bipolar. The reason I wouldn't put it in series is that you would restrict current flow to the turnout (and stop it from operating) with the resistor that you need to limit the current flow to the LED to avoid damaging it.
I do not have any of the standard wire connector plugs for these turnouts. So, I will just solder wire directly to the pins, but do you know offhand which one is red and which one is black??
Hi, just had a look at one and the black wire goes to the pin that is nearest to the outside of the track
Hello Sir,
I like what is being done for the control panel, but now I'm even more confused about how to use this system. I have a question about this new setup. Would it be easier and less confusing if I used only the DPDT switch? This way when I throw the DPDT switch to the diverging track not only will the LED light turn on at the straight track, but at the same time the turnout switch will go from straight to the diverging track. Does that make any sense?
Thank you for your time
Sincerely
Allan
Hi Allan, in this case, no, you can not just use a DPDT switch as it would put a permanent 12V on the Kato switch, which would damage it. Kato switches require just a short pulse of 12V to operate. Hope this helps.
I have a couple of other videos describing other options for operating Kato switches that you will find on the channel. John
@@wimbletrain In this case, yes, you can just use a dpdt switch but you must connect in series with the coil a large elco of 1000uF or larger (2200uF) and of 25VDC or higher. Mind the polarity of the capacitor: minus of the capacitor to minus of the power supply of at least 12VDC. The other pole of the DPDT can be used to control leds
@keessonneveld2314 Hi, yes, you are correct. I have actually tested the method you described in the past. There are several ways to operate the Kato switches, I've done a few videos on this topic but haven't covered the option you describe as yet. Maybe a future video? Thanks for watching!
Would it work if you used a momentry toggle switch instead of using a push button?
Hi, there is another video on my channel that describes how to use a momentary toggle. ua-cam.com/video/Kid2zlE7svE/v-deo.html
素晴らしい鉄道模型映像ですね、お見事です。
Thank you very much 👍
@@wimbletrain さん。
いえいえ、こちらこそ、どういたしまして、今後ともよろしくお願いします。
Hi John, How would I go about have 20 toggle switches & LED’s for 20 turnouts without having to also have 20 push button momentary switches as well? thanks
Hi Chris, I did have this setup once where I had 1 pushbutton switch for several turnouts. This involved having a relay in place of each pushbutton. Then the one pushbutton switch would then operate all the relays at once. Maybe that's another video? John
Hi John. I seem to be missing something. Why are two switches necessary? If this is to prevent constant power to the turnout, I believe there are momentary types of toggle switch.
The problem with the momentary switches is the diods don't work with them and by looking at them you can't tell which way the switch is thrown. You need to add a point positioning indicator to get diods to work. I explained that in a rather lonng comment here, which is not showing up for some reason.
Absolutely correct
Hi Paul, someone further down in the comments asked the same question and Raven below has explained it. This was my reply to the question from dexterdog62:
Yes you can leave out the pushbutton switch by using a DPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON) Toggle switch in place of the DPDT ON-ON. (The brackets around the ON means momentary)
The DPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON) is a momentary switch where if you push it either up or down it will spring back to the centre OFF position when you let it go (i.e. it provides a momentary pulse of the 12V to the turnout). However in this case there are a couple of issues that arise:
1) The toggle switch will always be in the middle so by visually looking at the toggle switch on the control panel you cannot tell which direction the turnout is in currently.
2) The LEDs will not be lit when the toggle switch is in the off position, they will only briefly come on when you operate the toggle switch. In this case we would need to create some extra circuitry to operate the LEDs (something I have never researched).
However, on my control panel that I used in the past (which I did a very brief video on (ua-cam.com/video/en39135I0so/v-deo.html) I came up with a modification to the circuit used in this video (the one with the bipolar LEDs). I added a relay to replace the pushbutton on each turnout and then had one master pushbutton to operate the turnouts. This way you would just set the toggle switches to the route you wanted (on multiple turnouts) and then one pushbutton would operate all of the turnouts that needed switching. I feel another video may be coming to show this! Cheers John
@@wimbletrain Do you see any advantages of the system you demonstrated against the point positioning indicator + ON-OFF-ON momentary switches? I found a switch where you can fasten the wires with screws so I'm hoping to avoid soldering stuff altogether and end up with a faster, more responsive system while only spending around 4 more EUR per switch. The only reason I'd install the button is if I wanted to synch 3+ throws while preping all that in advance. That said, I'm new to the hobby so I could be toatally wrong.
@@nscalealbulalayout4100 Hi, there's nothing wrong with using the momentary toggle switch, you just won't have LEDs as indicators. You can use any kind of switch as long as it is DPDT (ON)-OFF-(ON). the version with the screws sounds good as you don't want to mess around soldering, just make sure the two ON positions are momentary.
Couldn't you use a momentary double throw double throw switch and eliminate the momentary button?
Hi, yes, you can, but then the LEDs would not stay on. I have done another video that uses a momentary DPDT switch and a latching relay to operate the LEDs
I would like to control Two turnouts with the one switch, How can I add 2 to 1 switch
Hi Katelyn, you would just connect the second switch to the same points on the circuit diagram as the first one. Depending on where you want the position of the switches to be you may need to reverse the black and red wire on the switch. So for example you may have the first switch wired up as per the circuit in the video but the second switch might need have the black wire going to where the red of the first switch is connected to and the red wire of the second switch going to where the black of the first switch is connected to. Hope this is not too confusing! John
You're essentially creating an "Arming" circuit, as I see it, but shouldn't there be a change between "Armed" (i.e., toggle thrown but button not yet pressed) and "Switched?" Like, maybe blinking green when armed and solid only when the momentary button has thrown the actual switch?
I mean, a feller could see the green and assume the routing had been effected when all the time his train is hurtling toward certain doom with Lassie, Jack and Jill still on board in that there boxcar?
Great video, though, as always. Sorry for picking nits.
Hi Robert and thanks. You do make a valid point though, nothings gonna happen until you press that button! An option well worth looking into. Thanks for the comments, nit picking is ok as long as it's constructive as it is in this case. 👌 Cheers for now John
My knowledge is limited but I would imagine you would need a circuit with some logic gate(s) to control behavior.
Will it work the same without the push button switch?
Hi, no you need the pushbutton in this setup. I am going to do another video where there is no need for a pushbutton and the DPDT switch will be a momentary one. John