Air Powered... Propeller?
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- Опубліковано 4 січ 2018
- Following on from my compressed air piston engine, I tried to find a simpler method of converting pressurised air into usable thrust for a model aircraft! But is this a solution or just a stupid idea?
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You've heard of propellers moving air.
Now get ready for:
*Air moving the propeller.*
I think there is no comparison to compressing air with pistons vs. surrounding air (=there's very little). There's a real problem of getting enough "push" to the propeller with concept like this...
Air moving the air moving propeller
He should try a whoopee cushion.
In soviet Russia..
air moving the propeller, moving air
Put it underwater to check if it leaks!
And make more parts and put more ads before your videos so I can support you without paying(student budget ;D )
@@felixbaum2180 nah after so people can chose to or not to
@@charadremur333 Even if its at the start you can still choose to not watch it.
@@BlackSlimShady but if its at the end he can let you watch the video and watch ads at the end after you have decided whether or not you like the video.
@@charadremur333 you shouldn't watch ads only if you liked the video. That's like saying you should go to the cinema. Watch the entire movie. Than only buy the ticket if you enjoyed it.
"this was my breakthrough"
*falls apart*
2:52
Breaking news on this smashing revelation. The pieces of the puzzle are really going places.
hahahahahah reading this before i watched it made it 10x better xD
"This was my breakthrough"
SCREEEEEwack
2:40
💀💀🤣🤣🤣
Well it actually was his *break*-through
"Here I have a ceramic bearing, so let's hit it with a hammer. That will work"
And yet it was the polymer shaft that broke, not the ceramic bearing.
Hi Tom. One of the things I like about your videos is the fact that it's REAL; that is to say, genuine. You explain your thought processes very well and then without a lot of actual production, you assemble and test an item. Excellent. I like that way of doing things. It cuts to the chase and proves/disproves a point. I personally would be happy to see as many videos as you can practically manage, so the production in stages (weekly) seems to be my preference. A couple of other things if I may.
1) Pressure testing your bottle is wayyyyyyy safer if you fill the bottle with water. As I know that you know, water is (virtually) incompressible, but will communicate the pressure applied uniformly over the bottle and if the bottle does decide to let go, the explosive force is not as dramatic. Maybe 12yrs ago, I made a similar bottle to yours to prove to my twin boys that air does weigh something. My compressor can reach 120psi and I tested as described to that pressure.
2) Using the expulsion of air to then drive the propeller is (again, I know that you know) relatively inefficient, but a certain guy called Hero did something a bit similar some years back but with steam. :) Also, you may be aware that in the very early 50's a British aircraft (ahead of it's time - again), called the Fairey Rotodyne used rotor blade tip combustors supplied with compressed air up the rotor shaft and out along each rotor blade. Check out: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairey_Rotodyne
3) Probably (definitely), not a good idea to hit ceramic bearings with a hammer or any impact device. Pressing is wayyyyy better :)
4) I am/was, an electro-mechanical engineer who studied aeronautical engineering and I have a (too) small workshop. I know you make a lot of stuff from 3D printed plastic, and I get the feeling you may not be a million miles away, but if you need some metal parts made, pm me.
5) Finding many ways NOT do something can sometimes be fun and enlightening, so carry on I say.
Regards Mark in the UK (Buckinghamshire)
My first thought when seeing the thumbnail was: Flying swastika
krass. erster kommentar der das erwähnt, direkt deutscher. ich glaube das deutsche in mehr dingen hakenkreuze sehen als jedes andere land, einfach wegen unserer geschichte. irgendwie witzig
@@nob0dy27_ Witzig kann ich es nicht finden.
@@GGGNVideos ok und
That was my immediate thought too.
Jawoll ja
I think a substantial amount of air escapes between the rotor and the top of the valve. To improve the airflow through the brass tubes, you could try to add a sealing rubber skirt. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_shaft_seal
Exactly
Re: tolerances. Did you try printing them oversized and then turning them to fit?
Maybe ASA or ABS prints with 100% infill. Tried that once with a 3d printed PLA part and it shattered instantly. Simple rotational parts would be better turned from the start in aluminium or something like POM.
Sandpaper?
@@doel89 it would be hard to keep things true and square or achieve high tolerances with a hand sanding.
@@allansutton557 how about hand cranked lathe? it shattered because of high rpm. non powered lathe only use a spindle rope and feet to make them spin. like one of the pen making videos
For most of these parts, if they're going to be turned on a lathe anyway they might as well start as just solid stock of a more suitable (stiffer) material, instead of extruding them in soft thermoplastic in a 3D printer.
Interesting concept ! I think your system produce too much torque instead of running speed. You have 4 exhaust tubes that add no rpm compared to 3 or 2 but torque and they are too long. For the same exhaust speed of the air, the rpm is lower. I would advice to shorten the 4 little tubes in order to increase the rpm produced with a certain amount of air. Also to delete 1 or 2 tubes. I don't think the loss of torque caused by this modification would affect the proper functionning.
Moreover, we can see air flowing out of the system without passing by the exhaust tubes when you turn it on 12:49
I had just about the same idea. My idea was a bit different still. The tubes that expel the air may not be needed to lessen. The smaller exhausts inside the turbine type print, although, would benefit the build if there were less. EX: If there were 2 air expelling areas inside but still 4 tubes being used to expel the air, and there were no air leaks, there would be much more run time.
The "nozzles" are just the pipe he had available, smaller diameter nozzles might give more torque for reduced air consumption.
I agree. The long nozzles may reduce the rotation too. Bring them in closer (figure skaters arms when spinning). Two may work with an actual nozzle ( not an open pipe ). As I see it, it will increase the time for pressure reduction and possibly offer more RPM. How about a 2L bottle? And the internal system leaks need to be addressed. Try again! I would love to see another attempt.
Just by hearing it spin you can tell a lot of the air is not being used, definitely sounds like there's a leak inside the turbine evidenced by the fact that it can't start spinning on its own.
Seems like not enough effort was put into this project honestly.
Awesome failure! Best way to learn. :) And please! Regular updates on long term projects are fun. We need more of your videos! :) Anyhow, best wishes!
Michael Teeuw thanks for the spoiler :/
you shouldnt read the commentary before seeing the video ;)
Yes frequent updates
I didn’t know earmuffs were called ear defenders over there. Neat!
I’m pretty sure that’s a brand name, I’ve heard that in shooting ranges all over the US though too. “defender” sounds a lot more manly than “muff” I guess. In Brit slang muff means pussy so that might have something to do with it. 😂
@@scumbaggo Does it? I thought muff was a term for the bush
No muff is def pussy in Britland
An ear-muff keeps your ear warm, an ear defender protects against noises. That's the difference in Britain
@@anomalyp8584 in Ireland there’s an official government funded muff diving club
Yes! id love to see updates every 2nd week or so. Always a pleasure seeing your notification pop up
Love the stuff falling apart and hitting the floor. You have to laugh sometimes when things don’t go as planned. Love your work. I think you are doing an amazing job.
Split into parts! Love watching the process, Failure and success. I find the journey to these final ideas fascinating
Dude, you rock. Definitely going to support you on Patreon because these projects (together with the failures) are awesome! Keep em coming!
I am happy to wait for a couple of weeks for each video. I enjoy watching 1 video that covers the entire project, i find it more comfortable. And btw, I'm super impressed by the efficiency of your products (appart from that particular project ;D ).
Keep being resourceful and keep the engineering up ^_^
You should always do a pressure test by filling your pressure vessel with an incompressible liquid (water) so that there isn't so much stored energy if it ruptures.
I’m glad someone is covering this, I’ve been interested in pneumatic motors forever and there’s nothing out there
Both options are fine. Do what fits you best Tom!.
Manye thanks to you for all your great work, ideas, design and sharing it all from Europe !! 👌👍👍
Can see you're getting more confident on camera, loving the content too and Im glad you're putting the effort in. I suspect your channel will explode at some point. Keep it up :)
splitting up the projects into parts is a great idea!
I'd prefer a video every x weeks, but UA-cam would prefer more regular content. So whatever will help you best is what I want.
46k .... now watching it in 2020 and. 386k , have really enjoyed watching all of these videos on your channel Tom , keep them going
I love your content and your supreme quality. What ever takes less time, helps you, and funds your projects the best.
Why use a physical propeller? You want to convert a high velocity, low mass, low thrust airflow into a lower velocity, high mass, high thrust airflow. A propeller will do that, but so will air entrapment/ Coanda effect. Air blown from a nozzle into a larger convergent/divergent nozzle will suck in and accelerate a larger volume of air generating higher thrust, this could be cascaded. Think Dyson fan. This could also be done over the top of the wing through blown slats, to give lift and thrust.
Donald Sayers The momentum stays the same. If you have just a nozzle, you have little high speed air, if you use the Venturi effect, you have more, but lower speed air. Its the momentum of the air that moves the thing and that stays constant. And as he said in the video, since the air can barely even rotate the propeller, which weighs couple grams, there is no way a nozzle can push anything heavier either.
Er no the momentum is not constant. If you push a large amount of air slowly you will get more thrust than pushing a small amount of air fast, with the same energy, why else is he trying to turn a propeller instead on just pointing the jets backwards like a rocket?. That is why helicopters use big diameter blades as their vertical speed is slow, whereas fast plans use smaller props. Air blown through a wide bell mouthed venturi will generate added lift over the surface of the inlet.
- conservation of momentum
- he is spinning the prop for no reason whatsoever. he would probably get more thrust if he'd just point the tubes backward as he eliminates the friction of the gears.
- a smaller prop can spin it much faster, the criterium is speed of the tip of the prop. If i spin a small and large one equally fast, a large blade has a higher speed at the tip. And there is a stability limit to this speed.
also larger props are more efficient, but a small plane can not really use a big prop as it would touch the ground :P
I agree with this, Donald. It's very similar to what I was saying, with a different application.
Fill the bottle with somthing flammable, turn your brass rods into mini rocket motors - what could go wrong!?
Hammering in bearings, this is top notch stuff right here.
Mighty fine Ball valve you made there Tom :) also i am happy with what ever uploading scheduled you decide :) always a nice treat to watch
Great video! So glad I found your channel a few months ago. Would love to see weekly or biweekly content if you’re capable. Even the smaller things and failures are worth watching since I feel I can learn from all of it.
7:54 it sounded like it leaked right there
Put it underwater to check if it leaks!
A dental turbine uses air power too but since they are tiny Pelton turbines you'll need some gearing and the power/weight ratio might not be the best for its air consumption rate.... But there's the idea!
And besides, answering your last question, In my opinion, I prefer always quality over quantity. In episodes or in a long video... As fits better to you. If you want to become a YT partner you know the rules...
Dental turbines don't have (to produce) a lot of torque and they do need a relatively large air supply like you said. They do the job by the staggering number of rpm's. The size of the turbine compared to the effective cutting axle size doesn't look too promising...but then again, I'm not Tom and maybe it ís an idea
Albert Siemers yes I think the same but maybe with the proper gear ratio he gets some fine torque. It looks to me like an electric motor from a small quadcopter. The most significant problem to me is air consumption
This is a great idea and you have given us an idea for our Cub Scouts to try! Thank you for all your hard work.
Boy! I loved your face when things were falling apart in the first three minutes!😂😂😂
Thanks so much for this instructive video!
yeah, having long term projects split up is better in my opinion :D
i aggree, better to see how the project evolve weekly
Yes
1:47 It went alright but the front fell off ;P
its awesome you're even trying this. The average mind wouldn't conceive to attempt to engineer something of this nature. Most people if you can't click it and have it delivered to your door wouldn't succeed. The world needs more of you. Regardless of wether or not you succeed.
I like the idea and your awesome attitude about the performance of the prototype.
You should check out some water rocket builds, I think that will help you with building huge capacity bottles, and also it could make for some good content. I prefer 1 video every few weeks rather than parts. Does my head in knowing that you are watching a video and you know you still need to wait the same amount of weeks for the result regardless.
Excellent idea, I'd be willing to be that with an intermediate water tank between the air and the nozzle the results would be much better. Probably not the best idea during winter in the UK though...
So it doesn't have enough thrust for a plane, but would it have enough thrust to push a lightweight little car?
SUV RVing He talks about it at the end. Theres not enough thrust to even spin the propeller, which weighs almost nothing, so pushing a car forwards would also not work.
Would work with a much larger single nozzle, but all or most of the air would be released at once, and that's all.
A well designed one nozzle could give you the best results. Your nozzles do no look efficient. Most of the energy seems to be converted into heat. Just take a look at the nozzles of the jet engines.
MK there is a video of a AirPowered car
I like to see how you perfect and tweak ideas, it's fun to see the ideas develop.
great channel, your awesome.
Yea man seeing the design and iteration process is just as fun as seeing the final product, more vids!
As you said the problem lies in the mass of the turning unit. What if you also increase the mass of the energy holding substance. I'm talking of a design similar to the water-air-rocket.
Me and a friend of mine build an ebike similar to your first version, but with stronger motor mount and diy li-ion battery... it's great thank you.
By the way I enjoy weekly updates. Some kind of vlog including all current projects would be nice.
water is not compressible, so you can't store it in the bottle
You don't fill it completely with water, just mostly. You then pump compressed air in. The air pushes the water out which gives a stronger reaction.
ultimatejosh yes but water is also 1000 times heavier than air, and this is supposed to be able to fly...
Corey Phelps Exactly that what's water rockets are all about.
That propeller is very german
Why what makes it german?
@@thetrainloverdkThe shape looks like something from World War II
@@MichaelSitzmann nazi germany?
I so much love your work. Thanks for the inspiration
I love your vids and the fact that you aren't afraid to try.
Enjoyed this one regardless of the outcome. I wouldn't mind if the projects were released in multiple videos :)
I would like to see more of the design part of your projects. Maybe a little of your CAD work and thought process as you are designing parts. Some quick time-laps of the 3D printing. Stuff such as that. The videos do not need to be 15 minutes long. 5 minutes is plenty of time to relay what you are working on and how it is going. :-) keep up the fun projects.
wow this is really creative.... thanks man. ive learnt so much from this channel...
I subscribed because of your failure...it's great seeing someone try something that doesn't pan out! Keep it up with these unique tinkering projects!
can you compare pointing the bottle backwards to your compressed air engine
watching this, I really know how you feel. partial success almost every time. This is pretty cool, with an isolated workshop in the woods.
I love your vids, and will probably watch all you make.
Why has this Fella got so few subs!? Great ideas all round and the video quality is pretty f**king good you forget some UA-camrs take a while to hit this level but he's already started at this level ! Can't wait to see this channel grow ! Keep it up buddy ! 💪
Better for you to make short updates weekly, and for us too :-)
Just a little question about your E-bike : How did u manage to fix the pulley on the shaft of the motor ? Is it just pushed in with force ?
Thanks !
TrolololGames whatever keeps his videos in my feed.
“Negative results are just what I want. They’re just as valuable to me as positive results. I can never find the thing that does the job best until I find the ones that don’t.”
― Thomas A. Edison
"I can never find the thing that does the job best until Tesla find the ones that do.”*
Tom, I sure do appreciate you sharing this content with us, it is very interesting to see these sorts of projects. One thing that would make it a little easier to watch is if you would wear some heavy gloves to complement your safety glasses when handling a 100 psi pressure vessel. That thing could probably give you one heck of a nasty cut if it were to give with that kind of pressure on it.
Great work as always buddy
Clicked on this so hard my mouse broke.
Just finished watching. I'm sorry for your loss.
lol XD
Rip little mouse, we will all remember its loyalty and sadly hard abuse of its owner..
Couple ideas.... A regulator for more constant pressure. Another idea, make the nozzles smaller, with Venturi ports to pull more air volume. Have you considered a chemical reaction in the bottle, like hydrogen peroxide and aluminum? Obviously, you wouldn't fill the bottle. I've watched some of your videos and admire your motivation
Ryan Shuey, and then use the exhausting gases from the chemicals as fuel and oxidizer. Ignite the propellant with a remote controlled spark plug ,in a from one side closed pipe. Now you've got an improvised model afterburner or at least you'll get some visual effects from it. 😉💭 👉 🛫🚀🎆🎇 🤣🤣🤣
⚠️ Disclaimer: Dear reader, I do not take any responsibility for your experiments. And everytime keep in mind😳💭, chemicals or some elements can be dangerous. ☣️/☢️ 💨/🎇 >> 🤪😵🤢🤮 🔥 💥😱😭🤕 💀⚠️
3D print with extra material then plop it into an electric drill and chop of the exces bits (like a makeshift lathe)
lennart rolland needs to get it centered then, instead of chopping, sandpaper
As long as the videos are quality, I don’t mind what you do, whatever is easiest, but I really like what you’re doing
Brilliant Ideas with all your projects
I think the piston-engine with a little 12g CO2 capsel would be an cool combination !
Floh Or, just put a piece of dry ice in there
You can buy co2 powered motors for free flight models. People have also built multi cylinder co2 motos. I flew them back in the 1980s. Sometimes the co2 tank would ice up..
maybe you can print it bigger and then turn the plastic down to your required round shape?
MrHuggaga Well in that case he also has a wrongly shaped Turbine i think...
Albert Zne still, it would improve on that thing
I would think turning it on a small Lathe should help with the clearance problem...
PS: Did you ever hear of "KISS" (Keep It Simple Stupid)?
MrHuggaga I had the same thought. Depends whether Tom has access to a lathe.
Hi Tom! Whenever you upload is good with me. Always interesting to look at. If there are a timeframe it will kill the joy doing and sharing things. More like a "must" deliver and slowly kills the enthusiasm.
Some project are fast. Some are short. Some better be divided in parts. It all depends.
Keep up the good work sharing ideas.
Best Regards.
X
Very nice stuff man! I prefer more small videos with failures in them. Best way to learn ;) Keep on
Here are my suggestions:1: Ive noticed that the exhaust tubes are made in such a way that they lose efficiency, make them longer as it would increase the moment arm length thus making it spin faster2:The perpendicular exhausts are pointed in such a way that they push a little forwards alongside of pushing sideways to make the propeller spin...make sure that they are perfectly centred in such a way that you do not lose any energy to the exhaust tubes pushing forwards as it causes friction and introduces a pointless vector (just dont give ''pitch'' to the exhaust tubes)
Amir A yes! Also I think he is getting huge friction losses by abruptly changing the direction of air
Longer tubes add inertia and friction and does not add power. The tubes are pointed backwards to align with the incident wind, as the whole bottleplane is supposed to move forwards. If the tubes were aligned on the plane of rotation, when the bottle is moving, you are pushing the wrong way, opposing airflow and slowing down. Having them not point backwards would decrease efficiency.
Could you do what they used to do with steam engines. They would have a small high pressure cylinder then a second maybe third cylinder which are larger to take the exhaust of the first cylinder and use any remaining pressure. Might not be as useful with this low pressure but perhaps.
A compound steam engine seems to be what I mean.
Ben Carter maybe for a car
Hi Tom and Happy New Year to you. You should know that I recieve a lot of updates from various UA-cam inventors/creators so from my point of view I'm not never usually short of content to watch. Although always keen to checkout what you have been doing I would , especialy after you telling us how long it takes to produce the content, say your decision on how you show us your projects should be based on what works best for you and costs you the least time preparing the footage for us and allowing you more time to concentrate on the projects themselves. Anyway thanks for showing us another interesting idea put into practice and long may you continue.
The ball valve IS an accomplishment, especially the use of an O ring on both sides of it. Nice.
Efficiency on this thing will be just awful. Air is not very good rocket fuel
Ted Archer Jet engine
Albert Zne yeah, but jet engines do not work on air. Almost all of pressure energy is waisted that way
what makes you think this is rocket fuel then?
Demy de waard because it powers a rocket engine
do rocket engines power propellers?
its just an air powered turbine connected to a propeller
the fact that speedy gasses come out of holes doesnt make it a rocket
a jet engine has speedy gasses coming out of a hole, a piston powered engine has speedy gasses coming out of a hole
*THE SWASTIKOPTER*
Top work - Keep it up. As for less regular but full project videos verse more regular part project videos - all I can say is - if you go down the more regular but part project route then I suggest you discuss your thoughts and potential options for each stage so we can come back with other options and ideas that may help. Your analytical approach where you describe the physics behind your ideas is what makes your videos so good. I also suggest you give a shout out to your parents for being wealthy enough to provide you with out buildings and support to make all this possible. I would kill to have the resources you have.
Yes to the Video done in Parts, Keep up the good work we Believe in you Go for it .Kind regards :Jag 1.
Put some water in it. It should work better, because reaction forces of the water will be bigger than air. Or it will blow up so.. win win
sure, split them up its cool :)
Sentry going up!
Checking for Leaks Method - Water Bubbles using soap and water are a good way to check for leaks as bubbles form where the leak occurs. Your videos are excellent, keep up the good work!
My machine design teacher in 1967 high school mentioned that type of reaction turbine was the worst for efficiency. The good ones take advantage of as much of the expansion as possible. ( your air engines do a good job of that ) Whatever works for your uploads is fine by me. I love your projects. The failures are great too, your persistence is to be admired!
I recommend purchasing a GoPro or something along those lines to record a time lapse of your 3D prints, to make your video more interesting. Add some background music to spice it up😉😉😉
why buy a gopro for a simple timelapse? a free app does the same on a smartphone..
bepowerification Read my comment properly mate. I said or something along those lines. Meaning anything.
A Raspberry Pi with Camera, ist a cheap way to go.
HendrikBG Wait mate. Do you mean is a cheap way or isn't a cheap way to go.
MilkCap Ummmmm.......Shut up
Try this one with cola+mentos reaction!
very good work , you learned and we learned and there is no wasted time
thank u
Reminds me of the Dutch NHI H-3 Kolibrie helicopter. My father actually saw those fly as cropdusters over Flevoland in his youth. It's a small twin-blade helicopter with ramjets on the tips of the main rotor.
Its always interesting to see how you design and build and test and modify,
Thank you for sharing! That was nice!
Your learning the best way possible... by getting your hands dirty. I make lots of stuff that works in my head. But once I make it, I get a little smarter when I learn how stuff reacts in the real world. I would like to see you complete a turbine model. Great video.
Failure is best teacher. We watch for the process, the design challenge, the problem solving, etc. Success would be a bonus, but nobody has 100% success every idea. Keep it up
Split into parts sounds good Tom
Understanding that failures are a part of experimentation, I was still a little sad to stuff falling apart before my eyes! Great stuff as always.
KEEP EM COMING WHETHER THEY WORK OR NOT THATS WHERE WE LEARN
Split into parts...and failures are good, they move you forward..awesome video
split the videos into partss, we like not just the content but also you
Thank you for sharing also failures because one can still learn a lot from these
I like the idea of producing progress episodes of larger projects. That way you get to go into detail on the various features
Nice. I once knew a guy that created a helicopter that used a jet turbine engine and routed the exhaust out of holes in the rotory wing to spin it. It reportedly worked very well. He used graphite bearings to handle the pressure and heat.
the pauses when something falls apart are so consistent
Yeah. I would actually love to see multi-segment videos. I would love to see more of the design process and everything that goes into it. :-)
I found your channel a couple of months ago and really enjoy the content. I think making a progress video more often is a great idea.
Here's a thought, I truly do not know if this is of any use to you but here goes. I was a long haul truck driver back in the 60's and 70's back when Mack Trucks were using air starters on their diesel motors. They ran on air stored in the on board tanks shared by the air brakes. You could tell a Mack cranking up in the morning a block away by the strange sound of their starters. LOL I'm not sure how they worked but I'm sure you could find out. All I can say is they were very powerful and used little air. Hope this is somewhat helpful in your quest for an air motor.
As always......
*Dance the Skies*
Hi Tom, loving the project. I have also 3d printed a compressed air engine, however with my design, I use a low pressure chamber to regulate the air flow into the manifold. This allows a constant rate of pressure in the expansion chamber of the engine, and also the ability to ramp the pressure in the storage tank to a much higher PSI than the engine is rated to, thus giving more run time. My engine runs on 32PSI, and the 20oz storage tank holds air at 250PSI.
This method i took from Paintball Markers design.
Failure is the best enabler for learning!! Great content!!
I'd like to see the more regular uploads. More content is better in this case. Great videos keep up the good work.
Keep up the good work...I prefer to see the complete project in one viewing
Showing "failure" is impressive, shows integrity, and is helpful for experimenters. It's how projects are made, with trial, failure, and improvements. I can't overstate how impressed I am.
As for splitting videos, its up to you. I enjoy complete projects instead of "to be continued" videos, but whatever you do is cool with me. More videos = more $ from views, and you may get valuable input from comments along the way.