Thanks. The goal was a very capable habitat on an acceptably capable truck (which I already had) without breaking the bank....just over $40k in truck and camper (all my own labor).
This is such a nice install. The lack of noise will be such an improvement compared to other AC options. Being able to go 2.5 days running the AC the whole time shows how impressive your batt bank is. This whole build is so impressive.
Thank you...that's 2.5 days is without any additional energy...IF I get good sun on my 950w of solar and IF I get around to building the tilt mechanism for the 4 panels that can move, I'm thinking it could run indefinitely...but we'll have to see.
My Fujitsu 33 SEER 9K pulls max in cool mode 3.5A at 240VAC, but typically 2.9A. In the heating mode, it increases to 7A. I'm installing an Ameristar (Gree) 22SEER 9k INSIDE my Chevy Express work van. We'll see how it works out. I like your engineering background and videos. I'm always interested in building, tinkering and testing too. HVAC field pro myself.
I decided to use my LG 9k 20 SEER unit 2 years ago as it was (about) the highest efficiency 120V unit available at the time It also happened to have the smallest ODU of any 9k(by a couple inches in h x w). I think most of the higher SEER units have significantly bigger ODUs (so they can fit a larger condense coil) and are 240V. I love the fact there are much higher rated units available now but I don't think they are 120V (but I haven't checked). Have you identified any? Having to run a 240V inverter for only the A/C seems like an unneeded expense/complication. I do think 240V improves efficiency because of halving current in the VFD. I'm really interested to see someone come out with a synchronous reluctance motor compressor...it's all largely academic as I don't think I'll ever upgrade my unit. I'm pretty locked in to the size. I think if window units get made with VRF and quiet blowers, that is where the traditional RVers will go (especially vans).
You are one of very few people who have installed a mini split into a vehicle utilizing solar on UA-cam. I am very interested to do this my self, however, I am still skeptical. I feel if it is better (like most people who have them say it is), why aren't more people doing this instead of using inefficient, loud and expensive 12V systems? Thank you for your video!
In a word, they are ignorant. Most people do not conduct (an most don't believe themselves capable) the analysis themselves and believe the 'wishful thinking' of others who want to feel knowledgeable, thereby providing hearsay/poor advice. I think it started with DC fridges. People rave that DC fridges are so much more efficient than absorption fridges, and they are. The absorption process is 8x more energy intensive than the Carnot (compressor) process so they think this also applies to other forms of refrigeration such as A/C. OBTW, my 11.4cuft residential 120VAC refrigerator is 20% more efficient than an a 10cuft RV 12VDC refrigerator. See my video on it from 4 months ago. Also, I managed a company making custom server room air conditioning equipment for 2-1/2 years so I am somewhat intimate with A/C equipment.. There are two categories of efficiencies in A/C. Those that are regulated and high performance is mandated (anything that is part of a building) and those that are not regulated and they compete on price alone. RV A/C is in the latter. You will find it very hard to find performance data for RV A/C. The RV market segment that live in RV parks does not care about efficiency and really doesn't need to. The (growing) segment that wants to operate off the grid, SHOULD care a lot but largely does not. I will likely write an article for Truck Camper Adventure Magazine some time in the next 6 months on this exact issue. TBL, (My guess) Regulated A/C has efficiency ratings (EER not SEER) of ~14, unregulated has EER ~7, including DC. One key in higher efficiency A/C is a larger evaporator. Making the outdoor unit larger is contrary to market desire, and more expensive, so manufacturers conveniently ignore efficiency improvements. Another is compressor speed control while maintaining torque which is the domain of 'inverter' (AC induction) motor controls. DC motors have inherent problems maintaining power at lower speeds. Running a compressor at lower speeds also requires a variable expansion valve (allows a broader range of refrigerant flow) which is electronically controlled which is often found on residential variable speed units but to my knowledge, is not used on anything RV or DC. Making an RV capable of using A/C off-grid, has to start with the smallest unit that will do the job at high efficiency which virtually requires an inverter controlled mini-split. There may be some 'window' units that have the same capabilities but I don't like them for noise reasons. Anyway...yes you hit a soft spot and it seems you are well aware of the challenges......let me know if I can help.
@@WorkingOnExploring What a wonderful response! I can totally see your arguments as to why individuals have not made the switch in addition to industry leaders. Its a hurdle for industry leaders $$. I have also heard the planned obsolescence argument. Now for the hard decision: Do i dump 30K into a slightly used Promaster, custom fabricate the interior, build out a 24V 900W 600Ah solar system, and install a technically advanced boon docking AC system as a novice in all fields required?
@@clawson7064 That is the conundrum: get by with low performance of standard products or invest time, $ and effort to develop what you really want. It is also a question if you 'enjoy the journey' of developing your own RV. Lots of folks accept and are up to the challenge of mechanical interior tasks, it's another level to pursue more technical, analytical, or conceptual endeavors. I always encourage the attempt. There is lots of 'growth" in the experience and tons of folks who are willing to help you through.
@@stevehericks5764 Just picking your brain here: I know there will be many moments I curse myself for having begun the journey of going all the way with a conversion. However, I know I would be able to do it in the end. There are a few issues; I don't have a garage, I'll be doing this in Alabama (its hot), I only currently own about 10% of the tools I will need. You definitely hit the nail on the head about what exactly is the conundrum.
@@clawson7064 If you have a piece of ground, It may be possible to buy and erect an RV shelter which has 2" pipe arches and a tarp cover... I believe they are in various lengths and would give you vehicle cover plus work space... It still would not be secure so tools and parts would need to go in the van or house every night... Could also be neighborhood prohibitions against either erecting a shelter or "working on a disabled vehicle'..... Sounds like a lot of planning on both what to build and how to build may be the first step. Look in Craigslist for someone offering to rent shop space or wanting to share a rental. Sharing shop space may also give you access to tools you don't have...possibly find someone wanting to do the same thing and you could help each other.... Forums may be a locator... Likely not cheap... The south is not my favorite region...Starting with Airborne school at Ft Benning in January (big ice storm) and Ranger school in July 3 years later.... I'm a Montana boy and you can keep the heat (and humidity). I would not willingly live there and would only travel there outside of summer.... Similar reasons I left MT...
Hey guys, awesome build! Am just in the planning stages of mine (just about to flat deck my truck!) I've decided on going the mini split route (ran on solar) but had a question which might be right up Steve's alley! What is more efficient to cool a camper: parking in the shade (less solar power to operate AC, but obviously keeps the camper cooler) or parking in full, direct sunlight to collect as much solar power as possible to run the AC strong? Keep the videos coming! Thanks! 🍻
I think the answer to that is insulation. With a lot of insulation, heat gain from being in the sun can be lower and cooling equipment can be smaller (probably more important). Without good insulation, the amount of panels and a/c capacity get out of control. Having a lot of panels to cover the roof is also a given both because they shade the roof and you will always need as much as you can get. With our 'small' camper, the way I decided to shape the camper, the roof obstacles (vent fans and other roof mounted equipment) that limit space available for panels, you need to be very calculating on the layout. I designed everything on the roof around the size and arrangement of panels. Don't use flexible panels. Laying them on the roof will conduct a lot of heat into the habitat. You want to allow the panels to have air circulation beneath both for the panels to cool and the roof shade to be effective in preventing solar gain being conducted into the box. Also depends on if you camp in places that COULD provide shade. We camp on the desert some where shade isn't possible. I have also considered putting some panels on my jeep that I may be able to park in the sun while the camper is in the shade (haven't built that). We haven't tested this much since my solar panels were bad last summer and don't need A/c yet this season.
Don, Rooftop A/C's are pretty reliable so you may want to think in terms of cost/convenience of operation. If you have to pack and use a large generator, need a large inverter to get it to start (and could downgrade to a better pure sine), want to operate at least some time on a large battery, all could be possible with a small mini-split. If you wait for the rooftop to die, you may be prolonging your agony. A mini-split is more cost effective and FAR quieter due to the mass market demand, FAR more efficient by government mandate and more scalable with RV power systems. We operate from ~4A at low to 8A at high to 10A in overdrive ('jet') mode. Inverter control of the compressor ramps up to speed on startup over several minutes making even small inverters/battery systems able to power a small unit (ours is 9KBTU). The mechanical robustness is a question but buying a name brand was my thought on improving that risk.
If you're looking to justify a mini-split, it might be worth calculating how much fuel your generator uses. I can't find the spreadsheet tab where I did the math, but I estimated for my setup that a mini split would pay for itself in 100 to 200 days. You might be surprised.
Really nice job! massive upgrade. I’m almost done with my install, very similar. Is your condenser able to pull air from below or does it pull from the sides/front? thanks
Just looked at your short video with the flaps! very cool. I’ve got mesh on mine but the flaps might be slightly better especially for water! nice idea thanks allot
Looking at the front of the condenser, it intakes air from the left side ( very small but present) and the back (most). My intent is for it to bring air from under the truck which may be cooler as the camper has shaded the ground. The condenser has 8" behind it, 2.5" on each end and 2" above. The vast majority of intake is from below through the backside. The residential clearance specs are very large and I have grossly violated them, probably with a small performance decrease.....as I write this, we have traveled 250 miles since noon in temps 100-111°F...we arrived at our boondocking site at 9PM and 103°....the camper was 107° inside....it was my very first field trial so I didn't pre-ventilate with fans, I just hit the A/C into 'jet mode' (runs at 120% capacity). Mind you, I bought the smallest unit so it would be efficient over the long term but in 10-20 minutes, it was very liveable in the camper....
One more thought, I made the staggered flaps with a soft plastic mud flap material. I wanted the somewhat stiff to block rocks and mud. The condensing unit is sheet metal on the bottom but I'm concerned with ricochets into the condenser...it wouldn't take too many ricks bouncing against the coil to bend fins a lot.
@@WorkingOnExploring Really appreciate the reply, that’s great info! nice job. Have toy thought about running the unit when you’re moving? i’m planning on running mine. “Hopefully” it can still move the required air from behind and push it out without the detrimental effects of air pressure. It’s going to be a bit of trial and error i guess
Running while moving will ether work or not...can't think there will be much in the middle....if you have high ground clearance, I think it's more likely to have higher pressure than lower when moving....good luck....but as I say, hopefully luck is not a factor
I realize this video is a little older so not sure if you are still monitoring the comments but I have been looking at the mini split in an RV idea however I have an older Toyota Dolphin and as is common in many older RV's the ceiling height is just over 6 feet. In fact this is part of impotence to change as I hit my head on the Coleman. I watched your other video too where you disclose you have a smaller gap on the top than manufacturer specs but the big question I'm left with is the model you use still wants about 7.5 feet to the floor from the bottom of the unit if I remember correctly. In all the units I've looked at the principle seems to be the same. They were built for a minimum ceiling height of 8 feet. Given the background you have stated in this video can you answer why the bottom clearance is so large and why we can do much less for shorter rigs?
I can't recall the exact clearances specified in the installation instructions but think they asked for something like 6" high between the top of the IDU and ceiling. I have a little over 2" high across about 2' wide in the center and 4" high over about 4" long on both ends. I think if you were able to have 2.5"-3" across the top, airflow would be acceptable. The cross flow blower used in the IDU has a pretty high capacity to work at high static pressure. A restricted intake is a bad thing but would actually be hard to create. The supply output is about 2" high by 30" wide (60 sqin). I think as long as the intake area is 2x-3x the supply it is acceptable. Also, the entire top of the IDU has a filter screen that needs to be removed and cleaned periodically and that needs to still be possible which would not be if the clearance was less than 2".
Well if you have been running it for a couple years now then perhaps the clearances really are a guidance for best results but have room for adjustment. I've looked at a lot of different units and they all seem to land about the same. The measurements of bottom clearance, head unit size, and top clearance are almost exactly 8 foot on every unit I've seen. I appreciate all the detail you gave especially explaining the issue with the 12 v units. I considered it but the price was a real issue before you even revealed the efficiency problems.
I am a former director of operations at a custom A/C manufacturer and a mechanical engineer so I have more than anecdotal experience with airflow conditions. The high velocity supply air discharge is intended to project deeply into the room which is a technique that only mini-splits and rooftop A/Cs attempt to do. High velocity creates lots of problems. The 60sqin discharge area is a function of that high velocity discharge. By having 2-3x the intake area the intake velocity is 1/2 to 1/3rd the discharge which is still high but sufficient not to create a restriction that would reduce air volume. Obviously the more intake area the better. I don't think I'd be ok with 2:1 and would work hard to guarantee 3:1. High velocity air is a major source of noise as well which the very quiet IDUs don't want to compromise
I just shot some more video on some details on the installation. We should get it posted in the next couple days. If you still have more questions, let me know and I'll get them answered
Hi Steve, Excellent design and execution of your mini-split. I was very interested to discover your video about this because I have been researching and designing a system very similar to what you have already done. I have a Ford Econoline 350 high-top that I was planning to install the same LG mini split in. I am planning on having a 24V LifeP04 280A 6800Wh battery system with 975W of fixed roof top solar and a 2500-3000W inverter charge controller. Beneath the underside of the van floor just behind the rear differential I have a nice space that the compressor unit will fit with the normal vertical installation and I can even have the airflow over the coils in the proper direction while moving. The unit will be no lower than the pumpkin on the differential, so no ground clearance issues. The panels will cover a 10' by 5.5' section of my roof. My van will be all electric. No propane or diesel fuel for heating or cooking. I will use induction cooking and a microwave. I will have a very similar system to yours but with about 1/3 the battery capacity. My way to control the battery drain is to not stay where it is 90 degree plus or very cold so as to not have to run the air or heat continuously. I have considered removing the factory rear air and heat from the van and using the mini split while driving but I don't want to till it is thoroughly tested. I was wondering about the condensate drain. I assume it drains from either the left or right side of the air handler. Do you have issues with draining if your vehicle is leaning? I thought on mine I might have a drain on both sides to remedy this. I was planning on having a fine mesh screen surrounding the compressor unit to prevent small rock or debris damage to the coils. I was wondering about dirt and dust and how fast that might affect the coil efficiency. If you have any suggestions for me or cautions I would very much appreciate hearing about them. Thanks
Sounds like you have a pretty similar design. Some thoughts: The condensate line is permanently attached (about 30" long, insulated 1/2" tube) to the right side of the indoor coil (as you look at it). To have it come out the left side, it is routed across a channel inside the cover and underneath the condensate tray (along with power and refrigerant tubes) so I don't think there is any way to actually drain the tray from the left. I connect every thing from the right so I didn't look at that option. Don't think of the units as evaporator and condenser. Because this is a heat pump, not just A/C, either coil can be condenser or evaporator. The point being, both coils will condense moisture in the right conditions. The outdoor unit is not designed to be used while in motion. I can think of several potential issues in having air forced through the outdoor unit: 1) I'm not sure if the condenser fan is a VFD controlled induction motor or a electrically commutated DC motor but am pretty sure it's one or the other. The outdoor fan runs somewhat low rpm to be quiet. If the fan was over driven by air motion, (which I'm quite sure it would be at highway speed and if it's an induction motor) the motor would become a generator and likely burn out the control electronics. It may even do that if it were not energized if it is a permanent magnet DC design. It's possible the electronics are protected against this but I tend to doubt it. The condenser performance is significantly affected by dust and and debris. 2) Literally, any large grain of sand picked up under the vehicle and ingested at 60mph is going to bend fins. A fine enough mesh to block 'large sand' sized debris is also going to significant reduce air flow. 3) When the unit is operated as a heat pump, condensation occurs on the outdoor coil which simply drips out the bottom (no collection tray needed because it's outside). If dusty air were blown through the unit, even by vehicle motion, it would cake onto the wet coil and choke the coil pretty quickly. Spraying water into the outdoor coil is the solution to dust collection but can also bend fins (never use a pressure washer). For the above reasons, I intend to never use my unit while in motion and mounted it to minimize any motion induced air flow. I also think
Fat fingered and missed the last thought: I would definitely keep the factory heat/air as it's contribution is essentially 'free' where using the minisplit is 'expensive'. Redundancy is also important to me. Finally, while mounting the outdoor unit in the location you describe seems desirable, I would only do it if you were only to always to be driving paved roads. I think being that low on a gravel road would not last long. Good luck
@@WorkingOnExploring This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. There are almost always things not accounted for. I had not thought of the fan motor spinning and acting like a generator. While aware that the outside coil condenses on heat mode I was not thinking of the moisture collecting dust and dirt. Probably the best thing to do would be would be to make an easily removed shield that would block air flow and dust (to a limited degree) into the fan and coils under the van. And scratch the idea of using while driving. What are the concerns you see for driving on a gravel road? The underneath of the van in that location seems to be pretty clean as it is between the wheels and not behind them.
There is a significant compression of air under a vehicle, as air attempts to go under it, that stirs up a lot of small particles on a gravel road. Not just the tires. Eliminating the compression and associated drag is why all recent vehicles mount some type of 'air dam' below the front bumper to push air around the vehicle instead of under. Debris large enough to bend coil fins will be propelled by this air current and dust most certainly. Using a removable shield would work but how problematic is it going to be to install and remove? When the ground is wet? When it's snowy? Would it be better to put a fresh or gray water tank here? (this is where my gray tank is) and find a more accessible place for the outdoor unit? Seems like a lot of risk with an expensive and fragile piece of equipment (which is exactly the thought going through my mind when I decided to put mine above the tire). I made louvers from mud flap under mine to deflect rocks and not use a screen or a removable guard (my initial thought). Seems to be working so far. It does require some space....
@@WorkingOnExploring All points well taken. On my vehicle there really is no other location to locate the outside unit. The rear bumper is allocated to a motorcycle carrier. Being a window van and not an RV, there is really no space on the sides to locate the outdoor unit contained in a box similar to yours. While I am not an off-roader, I think it is unavoidable to not go down an unpaved road occasionally. I think the way forward for me unless I scrap the whole idea is to find solutions to mitigate all the known issues. Crawling under the van to attach or remove a shield is less than convenient but maybe necessary. While I had already planned to use a screen to prevent pea sized gravel from damaging the coil, I had not anticipated that sand or dust would have enough mass to bend fins. By giving it a bit more thought I can hopefully come up with good solution. Maybe just a louver in front of the coil with the screen would be sufficient. I don't know yet. A heat pump still seems like a better solution than a separate diesel heater and a window unit or a two hose portable aircon unit or several other systems I have seen installed. On a separate question, in real world usage at approximately 90F how much power is used over a period on an hour or for 4 hours or 8 hours. Does the unit cycle? I know that this is going to have many factors influencing it such as insulation, windows air leaks etc. Knowing it is drawing 720W on regular high does not really tell how much electricity it uses over a time period. I was hoping for real world observations you have made.
Thank you for this most informative content. I'm considering a mini-split for a high-roof Ford Transit van build. Curious if you have any thoughts about the Midea (or other brands) "U-shaped" window units. They appear to have some (not all) the benefits and efficiencies of a mini-split.
It's taken me a while to get around to checking on his ... I'm trying to get a house built....There is a lot of hype (mostly over the unique shape, wifi connectivity, and app) which has low value to me. There are a lot of positive reviews but very little technical detail. It is a variable capacity that has the efficiency potential and has a low noise level *(47dBA-high-42dBA -low). Its available in 8kBTU, 10kBTU, and 12kBTU which is a very small capacity differential. I would really like to know more about the capacity range. A lot of the Midea variable capacity mini-splits have a variable capacity of ~110%-50% whereas the premium units are 120% -30%. I find that mine (LG) spends little time running at max and a lot running at low speed which I think is most valuable. If the unit could not 'turn down' to 30%, it would keep drawing a lot of power (critical if you want to run battery/solar) or potentially over-cool the space (small spaces produce control problems). I think the mechanics (gimmick?) of the U-shape work well for residential but work against any RV install (where I see its lack of strength as a liability). LG makes some 'dual inverter' window/wall units that are likely repackaged mini-splits making them attractive although they are big (too big?) at 14kBTU/18kBTU and 22kBTU for van use. I think they would be good for larger RV replacements if the owner were willing/able to cut a hole in the RV and place most of it inside.
Absolutely correct. It's not hard to use better fans but the challenge of moving all the air in and out of the 14x14 hole in the roof is the real problem. No manufacturer seems to want to work with an A/C manufacturer to break that legacy problem and design to a bigger hole allowing lower velocity air movement. A/C's came after the 14x14 fan was standardized and have been stuck with it for over 50 years..
@@WorkingOnExploring Right. I've been RVing now for 35 years. It's kind of like hot dogs and buns. They refuse to work to together to get the same number of buns as dogs in a package.
I would argue that each perceives a minute advantage of their own position and is afraid of being the first to 'step out of line' for fear of being ostracized. They both need to change but neither wants to undergo the expense and other potential 'threats' of being the first.....America used to be about innovation regardless of what the pundits said....let the beneficiaries decide...Cancel culture is a broader 'disease' that now makes it about conformity...unless you are politically connected...I may be taking it a bit too far though....
@@WorkingOnExploring Certainly new risks (innovation) will have it's share of failures. And I completely agree that America did used to be about this innovation, risk takers seemed to be championed, and there were commensurate rewards with these risks. To me, it seems that economically and politically there are less obvious incentives to take these risks, with government increasing its size, so this innovative America has, hopefully temporarily, been very much slowed down. All real wealth (not fiat money wealth) occurs when innovation occurs. So when we want to implement, those of us that can create analyze and build ( the DIYer) have a pretty good chance of coming up with innovative solutions that work. It would be great to market it if desired, but at least we can do it for ourselves. At least youtube information sharing/internet knowledge (knowledge at our fingertips) and the vast speed of logistics in delivery help us work around the lack of innovation in industry.
Innovation has to be motivated. Regulation is demotivating. High taxation is demotivating, particularly in the RV industry where manufacturers are competing for 'spare' money. RV manufacturers (and I worked 4 years for one) are mostly in a race to the bottom. Making the cheapest possible unit and hoping to make money on customization and service. It's not an environment that fosters much innovation as much as it is needed and wanted.
High loads on residential A/C in humid environments are a caused by interior moisture content. Latent heat (change in temperature that includes phase change of moisture) and Sensible heat (change in temperature that does not include phase change of moisture) are things that most people don't understand (including a lot of technical people). The industry term for the amount of Sensible (cooling) versus Latent (cooling) is called the Sensible Heat Ratio (SHR). Most A/C is designed with SHR of .7-.8 meaning 70-80% of the energy used by the unit is devoted to just changing air temperature and not condensing moisture, (except in high humidity areas). In high humidity areas, the energy needed to cool the moist air is MUCH higher, requiring higher capacity units to achieve the same cooling effect. The key is to dehumidify interior air and keep it that way. For the most part, that is not a problem in the West.....while I have lived in the south for short periods (military), hot and wet are not where I plan to be, especially if my home is on wheels. The rated unit load (at 9kBTU) on my A/C is 742W. I chose it small because I have good insulation and air sealing. If I were to be in hot/humid, with my small space, this unit can be run on 'jet mode' which is 115% capacity, (~950W for 30 minutes) in which time, I think it would adequately dehumidify the interior air to reduce the latent heat load quite a bit and I would likely be able to keep comfortable at or below the rated load. This could continue as long as there was not a lot of door opening and closing, admitting humid air.
I am in process of building a motorhome on a Kenworth T300. The box is 26 foot however the living area is only 10 feet. The back 16 feet is a garage for my jeep. I have been looking into the mini split air over the last couple of years. I was told by one manufacturer that it wouldn't work on a moving vehicle. I have since seen videos showing it does work while moving. I've looked at Gree, AUX and others. I se you have chosen LG. What model is it? What type of battery are you using? Ampere hour? Looks great.
I am using an 9kBTU LG LS090HXV2. It is the smallest unit they make and is 120V with a variable speed compressor and Electronic Expansion Valve, allowing operation between 40--120% of capacity. They also make a 12kBTU. If your box is well insulated, and you intent to flee to cooler weather, the smaller will likely be fine. Dont buy more than you need. The residential planning factor is 400-600SF per ton (12kBTU) with much more insulation than your RV will have. My box is 7'x12' and has 2" of polyisocyanurate insulation that is R13. Working while moving is a crap shoot and needs to be planned for to be truly successful. I doubt people who claim that it works, actually know if it performs as intended. I bet it does cool at least some and to them that is working but I doubt it work as correctly as they 'see/feel'. It can and will operate poorly, in a stress condition that will likely catch up to them at some point. The problem is usually poor airflow through the condenser due to the slip stream of the box interfering with flow. I do not operate mine while moving, more because I don't see a reason. I think the right way to operate A/C is to first start with a lot of air ventilation then close it up and turn it on and I also don't want any of my 4 Maxxair fans open while moving. My condensing unit draws air from beneath the vehicle and discharges it out the driver side. It is likely that highway speeds the right angle flow across the discharge air path would interfere with it. If you were somewhat creative with making sure moving airflow was not at angles to stationary airflow, it might work OK. I chose LG because I don't have great confidence in Chinese compressors (I was director of Ops for a custom server room air conditioning manufacturer before I retired). LG makes their own compressors and they are very advanced in design. Other compressor manufacturers of quality are Copeland and Danfoss, both of which I used professionally. Many of the low cost 'off brand' mini split air conditioners you find in the market are made in China by Midea and sold under 17 different brand names. If it is one you are not familiar with the brand, it is likely a Midea made unit. They are all nearly identical except for minor features. They are not 'bad', just mediocre. For a little bit more you can get something of higher performance that is likely to be more gentle on your battery and live a longer life in an arduous environment. I also have a German made, 11.4CuFt residential refrigerator for which there is a YT video for similar reasons. I operate on a 24V/17.5kWh battery made from Nissan Leaf EV packs. I have the 12V equivalent of 1166Ah of usable capacity which is much or more than most class A's. I run a Samlex EVO 4024, 4kw low frequency inverter. The A/C draws ~8A/120V at full speed and ~10A at 'Jet mode' (120%). The inverter control ramps the compressor up and down over several minutes so there is no starting surge to deal with. I have no doubt you could run it successfully on a quality 1500w PS inverter. Installing a unit does require fabrication and A/C knowledge to bend, flare and connect copper refrigerant tubing, leak check, and evacuate to 500 microns before refrigerant release. Any other questions, please ask...happy to help.
@@WorkingOnExploring I have mini splits in my house and love them. I had thoughts of ducting the air in and out of the condenser so that when the truck is in motion, it would scoop air in. It's going to hang under the bed so there is ample space. It's not an off road vehicle so it won't be at odd angles or bouncing. Looking at eight solar panels on the roof producing up to 2kw. I have a 320 amp alternator that will run the whole truck and charge. I have a 7.5kw diesel Onan unit I was going to mount but now I don't think I need it. May get a little gas throw down 1200 watt unit for emergencies. Thanks for your time.
If you mean just a recess big enough for the ODU in the side, I don't imagine that would be difficult to build from a number of material types. The real issue will be if you're brave enough to cut a hole in the side of the van body. My entire cabin and the recess are made from 5mm plywood on either side of 2" polyiso insulation and a 2" poplar perimeter SIPs (structural insulated panel). Afterward, they are covered all around with 6oz fiberglass cloth and polyester resin. I'd imagine you would need a curved interface if you want to follow the wall curvature which would be difficult with that construction as would gluing and fiberglassing the wall interface seam. You could project the straight edge box through the curved wall till it was tangent but that would likely look odd. I'd probably start with trimming the hole with a piece of 1"x1/16 aluminum angle with the flange facing inward. The angle will likely bend to follow the body curve. Screw or rivet it on with butyl tape sealant. With the inward facing aluminum flange, you can cut an aluminum sheet to match and rivet that to the angle flange. I see no need to provide framing if you use .040 or .052 aluminum sheet and riveted architectural angle to connect corners. Insulate with rigid foam and either put an interior cabinet over it or protect the insulation from damage with 2.8mm luan plywood. Hope this is what you're looking for. No idea of who could or would do it but there are any number of van builders who might.
Great content. Thank you. Would love to hear more about the methodology you used routing your copper tubing, low voltage wiring, and also high voltage wiring. Also, maybe some content on the efficiency of the outside louver. Did you have to remove some of them to increase airflow to the compressor?
The condensing unit, being in the driver's side fender well, has all the connections on the lower rear side. I made a 1.5" hole through the wheel well at inside floor level and came out under the kitchen cabinet, following the floor, up the back slope to the edge of the back wall. This all goes in the bottom of a storage space and is not protected. When it turns 4ft up the back wall, it is inside a 2x4 aluminum cover. This route is extremely direct and is only about 11ft. This run includes the 1/2" PEX condensate drain which discharges in the wheel well, 1/4" soft copper liquid line, 3/8" soft copper vapor line, 3 wire SJOOW 16 AWG power (2 conductors) and signal (1conductor) cable and a separate 16AWG equipment ground wire. The power goes to the CU through the same hole in a 14AWG SJOOW cable. SJOOW is reinforced extension cord cable. There are no low voltage cables. When all was tested, I sealed the wall through grommet with expanding foam.
The louver worked well as designed. Each louver is made of a 2.5",. 040" aluminum strip bent at 45° along the length with 1.5" spacing. The condenser airflow is both much less in volume than I thought and quite low velocity. I do not operate it while driving because I'm sure the slip stream would cause problems.
Tubing is connected with SAE flares at both ends. Use only a quality, orbital style flaring tool. I recommend using only the minimum amount of line and especially not standard, untrimmed linesets (such as Mr Cool) as attractive as they sound to enable an install without a tech. Leaving a coil of excess line creates an 'oil trap' which likely cause compressor oil starvation.
My power supply cable is all inside the habitat and runs in a 1-1/4" space under 1-5/8" tall duck board flooring or under cabinetry. The A/C is on a dedicated 16A DIN rail breaker and also has a power consumption meter which displays A, V, W and Wh. It draws 8A at full load, 10.4A in 'Jet' (120%) mode and 4A at its lowest compressor speed. With the I side fan only, it draws .4A.
@@WorkingOnExploring thank you for all of the very mindful comments. I really appreciate it. At 55, I am about to start the journey of at least half-time rv living and I already know the "stock" A/C's are horribly inefficient. This solves that problem. I look forward to more of your content.
I wish I knew someone who could do this for me with solar in my Forest River 368RLBHK I’ve lived in for the last 6 years, not only is PG&E killing me all summer long (bill is $500-900 month) my unit is never less than 90 when it’s 110 in the California heat. It’s Hot! I have 2 units that run constantly. If id have known….
I can understand how you feel. I've worked in both RV manufacturing and air-conditioning manufacturing. RVs have poor insulation AND inefficient air conditioners. Few owners endure it for long because they typically move on or finish their trip. Those who do long term, come to understand the truth as you apparently have....being educated is the first step.
Hi there. I understand that the temperature outside negates how powerful you’d want the air conditioner to be running if the temperature was 90 and I wanted it to be 60° how many watts per hour would this mini split use? I have 600 amp hour batteries a nice 3000 W inverter and I believe, two 100 W solar like yours I power my batteries when I drive
This is an extremely difficult question to answer and I can't answer it for you. I can only show you the process by which you might achieve an approximation. In describing how to go about it, you will likely conclude that its a lot of work because it is. Calculating heat load on a structure is a matter of 1) calculating the effective insulation using the insulation value of the wall x the surface area + the insulating value of the windows x the window area etc. 2) using the effective insulating value and gross surface area to determine the heat loss. The residential equivalent is calculated using a process called 'Manual J' and there are videos that can walk you through those calculations. 3) Once you know heat loss, which will be something like X BTUs/hour per 10-degree temperature differential. Once you pick your conditions you can get a number for heat loss. Since you want the temperature to be stable, heat loss (or gain in the case of A/C) must be offset by the equipment's capacity. Assuming you have something like 6000BTU/hr loss or gain at your preferred temperature differential. 4) You can either get a specific power chart from the equipment manufacturer or use some simple interpolation from data they usually give (likely most you'll get) to figure out what power the equipment draws at that capacity. If you look for a 'submittal' or detailed data sheet for the equipment, it will usually give the power consumed for several BTU capacities. It is unlikely any of these will coincide with one of your provided equipment specs but with several of these data points (often mini-splits will provide info for min-nominal-max), you can interpolate your number within the range. 5) There will be a number of assumptions made on the way through all these calculations and if you don't make a decent educated guess of most if not all of them, you will come out with a very inaccurate answer. I'm not trying to be evasive but I am trying to show that it is difficult. (The easier way) One of the ways I used to approximate it is; in cold weather, I put a small electric heater inside the camper and ran for several days, adjusting the heater's output so the inside temperature was at the correct temperature and stayed there. I used a 'Kill-a-watt' meter so I was able to see how much electricity (in watts) the heater was converting to heat. When the heat generated inside is stable, the heat released in the space is equal to the heat lost from the space. The wind obviously makes big difference so must be done in no wind conditions. The key to achieving an ability to operate continuously is a) that your generation has to equal or exceed your consumption on a daily basis. b) Batteries are only there for the times when generation and consumption are occurring at different times. The size of the battery needs to be enough to bridge that time. If you look at my other A/C videos (there are 4) , I have one that discusses how we operate A/C for 8 hours per day. In that, show an energy balance chart showing the relationship between generation, consumption (by all sources) and the battery capacity needed to bridge the difference. It is a helpful exercise to do that for your situation.
My problem is that I cannot find anybody who would install a split unit. RV place says I need an A/C guy the A/C guy says I need an RV Tech. Can someone help me.
I suggest you find a small, possibly sole proprietor.....and not seek to have the work done in 'prime cooling season'. The biggest challenge is the mechanical installation which could probably be done by a handyman, then have an A/C tech install the lines and charge the system.
I really appreciate all your very technical answers in the comments here. I’m planning out how to install a mini split in my 35’ 1995 Pace Arrow class A. Do you have any thoughts or experience with the square ceiling mount indoor units? I was thinking of installing one in a 45 degree diamond orientation over the center of the bed, so that you could adjust the vents over the the head and foot, right and left of the bed (Mitsubishi definitely lets you do that, Durastar seems to have a single global vane setting, still researching) I’m thinking that in the front I would have one ceiling unit towards the middle above the kitchen and dinette, and another at the front where it would blow on the couch and driver and passenger seats (which we use when parked) Part of my thinking is that having the AC able to blow right on people is a good way to reduce power usage - don’t need to cool the entire RV as much. The other approach that I previously thought might work is using two mini duct indoor units and the existing ductwork. But your comments on air velocity and noise make me think that’s probably a bad idea. I have looked and looked inside my RV and I just don’t see a place where I could fit any of the traditional ductless indoor units without giving up storage space. Do you think I’m on the right track? I need to figure out the roofing framework / internals to see if I can actually safely cut the holes I’d need. I’m planning on getting rid of the basement permanently mounted propane tank and putting the outdoor unit where it was. Then will experiment with a winter of heat pump use and see if we need to get a diesel furnace to supplement the heat pump. I thought about trying to mount the outdoor unit on the back of the RV but there isn’t any obvious place to mount supports up high, and we don’t use propane much, and our propane tank was made in 1994 so it’s probably due for replacement. Sorry, that’s a lot of explanation and text. You know far, far more about HVAC than I do, so I’d love to hear if I’m on the right track. (I’m not too worried about power; generator plus 240v transformer to start, then when I have some power usage data, a Victron inverter and solar and I’ll keep buying 200Ah LiFePO4 batteries till I’m happy. Got one now and a very happy residential fridge…) Thanks!
Sorry for the tardy response....we've been in the back country, out of cel service.... TBL; Neat idea (ceiling cassette) but nearly impossible to get to work. The ceiling 'cassettes' are neat, especially IF you could get them into an RV ceiling BUT, they are pretty large. They are on the order of 2ft l x 2 ft w by 1ft h. The would not fit into a 14x14 hole of a roof A/C of fan. It would be a MAJOR construction job to get one in a ceiling. Knowing what I know (I was the plant engineer for Safari Motor Coaches for 3.5 years) I would NOT do it. There are significant reinforcing trusses on BOTH side of the 14" hole to support the roof A/C and making it big enough for the cassette would require cutting at leas on of them. I don't think you could adequately support the roof without replacing it and that means going all the way across the roof. It WOULD also stick above the roof. I don't think you want something hanging down a foot from the ceiling? Check your specific specifications for the exact size. Wall units tend to be the most common for a reason. I understand not wanting to give away overhead storage but everything is a compromise. Maybe put a roof mounted carry box where your roof A/C was? (not sexy). I doubt your propane tank has suffered any degradation due to time. The worst think is exterior rust but that should be minimal. Remove it if you wish but the death of an A/C condenser is most often caused by a lack of adequate ventilation. If you look at the clearance requirements for mounting the condensing unit, they are large. I'm sure you could mount it in a basement but I think you would need significant sheet metal ducting to insure airflow was adequate and not recirculating (meaning instead of the the intake getting cool air, it gets a lot of hot exhaust air because the airstreams are not separated properly). I know one guy who put one in a bus basement and planned to leave bag boxes open on both sides to draw air all the way through the basement. That would work and is on the order of what I think would be needed in your situation. The 'inverter' type minisplits have a slow startup that make it very easy to start with none of the 'surge' you have from a conventional unit. They are very easy to start, never drawing more than their full load. Mine (an LG 9kBTU/120v) takes several minutes to reach full load (8A @ 120V).
@@WorkingOnExploring Thank you for your very thorough and detailed response; no need to apologize for having fun in the wilderness. I don’t know how I missed the UA-cam notification when you replied. When someone with more knowledge and skills than I have tells me that they wouldn’t do something, I’ve learned that I should listen. I don’t want to rebuild my RV’s roof; it seems to be in pretty good shape. Based on what you’ve said, I’m going to re-measure various parts of the RV and figure out what my options are - maybe I can sacrifice a drawer under the dinette for a mini-duct unit? Or one of the floor mount units can be snuck in somewhere else? To that end - do you have any thoughts on what brands I should be looking at? I had previously limited myself to the LG MultiF 24k BTU because it’s ~26” tall and fits in the basement. The MultiF LGRed ones are >33”. But if it’s going to be mounted on the back, then I can use any brand at all. It does get cold here so having a low temperature heat pump would be great. MultiF LGRed is what I will probably start looking at indoor units for. Re: 1 foot down from the ceiling, I did actually check that before. It would…be great for reminding me to take my shoes off, because if I was wearing shoes I would hit my head on it.
Im 6'4" and hit my head on lots of things so not producing 'headbangers' is a priority.... A Chinese company called Midea markets under 17 brands in The US... Mr. Cool, Senville, C&H, are a few of their brands. They are not bad but because of the space constraints, and need for ruggedness, I would stick with a name brand that is not Chinese. LG, Mitsubishi, Daikin, are some.I looked at size a lot and LG was smallest. If you want a dual zone system, you will need a 230v unit. Mine is LG, 9KBTU, 120V. 230V makes it a shore power only solution but for something as large as your rig, that's probably anticipated. I just came back from ID where we used our heat pump for a week (our lot there has grid power) and it was very nice to have a quiet and effective heater.
@@WorkingOnExploring Thanks for the brand suggestions - that makes sense. LG had the second most comprehensive data sheet, which I appreciated. Can't remember whose was best. I was disappointed that LG's graphs were sometimes low res, and they included airflow for only one setting / angle - I want to know the whole range of settings, so I can figure out if I can gently blow cold air on the seat I will be at, *or* have it blow diffusely so that it's not directly on me. I am planning on running the AC off batteries. I am still figuring out if I am going to get a 220v inverter, or have phase paired 110v Victron inverters. I have a 2000+W 110/220v transformer that I can use, though it's quite heavy so I don't think I will use it indefinitely. (Used to use it in the UK to power my 110v appliances...) I've got current transformers on my transfer switch to measure how much power I'm using. I'm going to be collecting data to figure out what my power usage looks like, and determine what I need in terms of battery capacity and inverters. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with 800+Ah of 12v LiFePo4. My current setup is a temporary one - 200Ah 12v battery under the dinette, with a 75A AIMS power converter and a 1200w cheap pure sine wave inverter that powers the fridge. Been averaging about 800Wh/day on the fridge - a 10.1 ft2 one that replaced a Dometic propane fridge. Ironically/unexpectedly, my MacBook Pro currently consumes more power than my fridge. Some of my work tools are inefficient. I have to run the generator some every day to power the microwave and/or Ninja Foodi oven/air fryer/toaster (It's my favorite toaster - you can see what your bread is doing, and you can put butter on it and put it back in to melt it. Love it). The cooking time is just about enough to keep the battery topped up. I will be putting solar cells on the roof eventually, too. If I can put enough up there to let me not use the generator every day, that would be wonderful, but I am not holding my breath. Lots of cloudy days where I live.
I can't recommend strongly enough that a big battery and need to invert 240v AC really need to be a 24 or 48v system. The high amps of a 12v system demand large cables and create large inductive interference problems. Since you want to run high power devices from battery, you also need to charge at high power. Getting a 12v charger that will allow 200-300A (2.5kw-4kw) is hard and heavy (heavy=expensive). It will be as hard to find and more expensive than a 24 or 48v. You likely already have some investment in 12v but I encourage you to cut your losses now and start with long term cost and efficiency in mind. I realize the I incremental addition approach is attractive but it will lead to expense and inefficiency.
I presume you are referring to the air circulation around the outdoor unit (condensing unit, CU)? The simple answer is no. The design intent for CU's of all kinds is to use thermal separation to reduce 'recirculation'. Mini-splits all draw air in from the back (some with a tiny bit from the left side) and discharge to the front. The heated air discharging from the front, immediately rises because it is much warmer than surrounding air, leaving the cooler, stationary air (usually cooled by contact with the ground) to be drawn into the rear. In my installation, I have the CU in a recess in the driver's side of the camper where it can only draw air into the back from below, most likely from under the camper but some will come from the edges of the wheel too. The discharge to the CU's front (camper's driver side) does have to go through an additional downward deflecting louver on exit but since it is 40" off the ground, I believe the heated air can travel away from the camper as thermal convection forces redirect the downward deflection and cause it to rise, some farther distance from the camper. The air velocity coming out of the CU is pretty slow (high volume at low velocity is more efficient) and there is not a lot of projection of the warm air away from the camper. At some point, I would like to do a smoke test to see how far the warm air travels both downward and away from the camper but have not done it yet. I hope this makes sense. I see a lot of mini-split conversions placing the CU on the back bumper or higher up on the back wall, which is a pretty good location for airflow but aesthetically ugly. I want to hide the CU (as well as keep it mounted low) and this was my solution.
Thanks so much. I am seeking a heat pump for my Hallmark Cyclone 41 ft toy hauler and have invested hours in seeking the proper application. Dometic is made in China, Coleman Kansas USA. I was going with the Coleman until I saw this. How could I distribute the air through my ducked system. I've seen videos placing the condensing unit in the storage area. I need 15 k , so assuming I will need two mini's at around 9 k each?? Your thoughts. Ron New Jersey
Minisplits are not all one to one. Some come with outdoor units (ODU) that can provide refrigerant for multiple indoor units. For instance, if you wanted to operate two indoor units of 9kBTU, you can have one 18kBTU ODU (designed to work with dual indoor units). You will have two line sets, one for each IDU. There are several types of IDUs as well. They typical 'wall unit' you already are familiar as it is the most common but there are also 'ceiling cassettes' which are about 20" square and 10" high that you could conceivably build into the ceiling (and cover what sticks through the roof). They are all way bigger than the typical 14" square ceiling hole however. Some manufacturers also make a 'picture frame' unit that is about 30" square and 4" deep and is aced on a wall and covered with a picture. It pulls air in the top and ejects it out the side. A BIG CONSIDERATION should be how efficient the unit is. Any unit made for residential use will be 30-50% more efficient than anything made for an RV. This will be more important if you are operating from your own generator.
The minisplits are all designed for ductless operation and I don't know of any IDUs that are designed for ducts or could be easily adapted. It may be possible to find a small split system with an indoor air handler that could be adapted but I am not familiar with any specifically. I believe the indoor handler would likely be objectionably large and need to be placed where the roof A/C used to live.
Putting the ODU in a lower bag box is possible but they are tall and it MUST sit upright AND have a lot of free airspace around it such as cutting the bottom out.
I made it from a piece of .040 aluminum sheet. I have a 4' finger break It only requires 4 bends, so it's very easy to make things like that. A local HVAC installer will have a break to make something like it (they make lots of galv steel ducts so they would need one) for you but they will only have galvanized steel.....if you want aluminum, you can buy some at your local metal supplier and cut it to size on a standard (wood cutting) table saw and just bring them the piece for bending.
MUST be installed upright. Oil circulation in the compressor requires; 1) the pickup inside the compressor to be at the lowest point. It cannot be horizontal but can be at an angle if you can figure out how the pickup is oriented inside the compressor. 2) oil flow is assisted by refrigerant but will not flow uphill (much) even with refrigerant flowing uphill. There are 12V truck units where the exterior unit is only a condenser coil and fan that can be mounted at an angle underneath a vehicle and the compressor is either separate or with the inside unit. Search 'cruise n comfort's or see ebay if you want a Chinese unit.
I am pretty busy for the next month and a half but trying to understand your situation before I can give a hard answer...am I helping or doing it all? what kind of RV? what size and brand A/C? when do you want to do it? can you come to Riverside, CA, etc...I do have 950W solar, 5-190W Solarland SLP190-24S. I have a 17.5kWh/24V lithium manganese oxide battery constructed from 35 Nissan Leaf electric car battery packs. Lots of details about both on UA-cam/WorkingOnExploring or WorkingOnExploring.com. Best to email me directly at steve.hericks@gmail.com
Installed a similar unit senville 9k btu and during initial test the drains were working fine. Took it home and the drain stopped working properly. It leaks to the left side.
I have never had an interior condensate leak. The drain comes off the IU on the right which is the side I planned for service connections so drops vertically right away. With the LG, if you want to connect service to the left, all piping/wiring runs under the bottom of the IU, inside the bottom cover which could be a more difficult way to drain. There is no separate connection on the opposite side to leak. Because the condensate trays are often very shallow, the IU needs to be pretty level side to side to be sure condensate doesn't run over the tray by tilting away from the drain side. The condensate line can get clogged, especially if your extension is too small. I used 1/2" PEX. The other concern with a small space is the pressure differential between inside and out can be pulling air into the drain line and interfering with the water flowing out. If this is the case, it's ok to make a water trap at the bottom of the drain line with a small vertical 'S' bend.
I realized that in describing my LG cable/hose routing on the IU, I may have inferred yours should be similar but I have no way of knowing if it is similar....
Hey guys, Thank you very much for the video! Very interesting... I'm interested in a Transit style van and wondered if there's more low profile way to do what you've done here with the mini split? Also, my absolute dream is to have a work bench in the back of my camper to do wood working, whilst on the road, but obviously humidity and temperature has to be reasonably constant. Do you think it's possible? I obviously can't have huge fluctuations in heat which would warp my boards/wood blanks etc... All the best, and thanks again!
If by low profile, you mean lying the condensing unit on its side, you would need one specifically designed to do so. Oil flows with the refrigerant and since it is always liquid, is just carried along with refrigerant flow. Placing refrigerant coils or compressors in an orientation other than 'upright' (as designed) will trap oil and starve the compressor which results in compressor failure pretty quickly. I believe I have seen a video of a van converter that mounted one under a van but can't remember details. As far as woodworking on the road... Space is a premium in any RV so it may be possible but I cant imagine any thing large and that goes doubly for equipment.... I'd think a trailer would be the way to carry woodworking along with you. I've thought about making a 6x6 expedition truck with a trailer for that purpose but doubt it will rise to a high enough priority to get built.
@@WorkingOnExploring thanks so much for the detailed reply - Sorry let me clarify better - I meant less visible for 'stealth' camping/placement options, although you answered this a bit. The main issue that I was inquiring wasn't space, but temperature and humidity, and how they effect wood - Cracks developing if a high temperature is reached etc... and thus me needing quite consistent humidity and temperature all the time. A (Murphy) bed, work bench and a bit of storage is all I want. No need for Ovens/Toilets/Showers etc for now. Again, thanks for such a great collection of information and detailed answers =) All the best.
Temp/humidity control has been an issue in several companies during my career so I am familiar with the problem. I think it would be near impossible because it requires a lot of energy that it would be difficult to get without being grid connected. Instead of a van, a small cargo truck may be more reasonable by giving you more space especially if you have long pieces of lumber. With a large lift gate, you could also have a work center parked in the back by the door and roll it onto the lift gate and work on the ground. It would be much more stable than being attached to a van.
@@WorkingOnExploring hmmm that's a shame regarding the power side of things. So even though the hotter it is, the more solar I potentially get to power a mini split - That would still not be enough most likely, even for a Medium Wheel Base high top size van? And thank you but again, space isn't the point, I build medium to small size Musical Instruments - It's purely the humidity and temperature that I'm not sure if I can solve - Work bench space and stability of the bench etc aren't a problem.
FYI, I managed a 'precision cooling' manufacturer making server room and laboratory A/C equipment for 2.5 years. As far as the A/C unit goes, the biggest issue is probably humidity control. No residential A/C units have it. Four issues are prominent. 1) To dehumidify, an air conditioner must be designed for it (some are and mine is). It super cools the evaporator coil to condense atmospheric moisture needing typically below 40F to do that. Normal A/C evaporator Temps are 50-55F. Super cooling reduces the efficiency quite a bit. 2) Humidification is a feature which is NEVER part of residential A/C. It is the domain of 'precision cooling' which is industrial type. To humidify, they use boiling water evaporators to create steam. They require high power (2x the A/C) and are power intensive for a long time. 3) controls that include humidity management are NEVER part of residential A/C (even though they can be set to dehumidify) and are precision cooling again. 4) doing temp and humidity control in a small space 24/7 would be both difficult to manage (due to poor airflow in a small space) and probably 2-3x more energy intensive than temperature control alone. Another issue is the room on your roof for solar. Covering your van roof would likely get you around 600w, maybe a bit more. Total production is about 4x that so 2400wh/day. That is if you could always get strong sun and tilted your panels. That might be enough for comfort cooling but will need double or triple for humidity control. The reason for a cargo truck is also to increase your solar 'footprint'. If you could gather a large amount of solar, you need a very large battery in which to store it. I'd guess you need 1500kw+ solar (@$1.25/w), 8-10kwh battery (@ $500/kwh), 3kw inverter ($300), + a custom A/C solution that would likely be $3k IF you could find one. What I'm trying to convey is what you would need to do humidity control is a huge power and cost adder.
So cool. In my view you essentially DIYed an earthromer, with the added value of customization and without the markup. Well done.
Thanks. The goal was a very capable habitat on an acceptably capable truck (which I already had) without breaking the bank....just over $40k in truck and camper (all my own labor).
This is such a nice install. The lack of noise will be such an improvement compared to other AC options. Being able to go 2.5 days running the AC the whole time shows how impressive your batt bank is. This whole build is so impressive.
Thank you...that's 2.5 days is without any additional energy...IF I get good sun on my 950w of solar and IF I get around to building the tilt mechanism for the 4 panels that can move, I'm thinking it could run indefinitely...but we'll have to see.
@@WorkingOnExploring I’m excited to see real life testing of the AC and your whole batt system with solar. Keep up the excellent content
My Fujitsu 33 SEER 9K pulls max in cool mode 3.5A at 240VAC, but typically 2.9A. In the heating mode, it increases to 7A.
I'm installing an Ameristar (Gree) 22SEER 9k INSIDE my Chevy Express work van. We'll see how it works out.
I like your engineering background and videos. I'm always interested in building, tinkering and testing too. HVAC field pro myself.
I decided to use my LG 9k 20 SEER unit 2 years ago as it was (about) the highest efficiency 120V unit available at the time
It also happened to have the smallest ODU of any 9k(by a couple inches in h x w). I think most of the higher SEER units have significantly bigger ODUs (so they can fit a larger condense coil) and are 240V. I love the fact there are much higher rated units available now but I don't think they are 120V (but I haven't checked). Have you identified any? Having to run a 240V inverter for only the A/C seems like an unneeded expense/complication. I do think 240V improves efficiency because of halving current in the VFD. I'm really interested to see someone come out with a synchronous reluctance motor compressor...it's all largely academic as I don't think I'll ever upgrade my unit. I'm pretty locked in to the size. I think if window units get made with VRF and quiet blowers, that is where the traditional RVers will go (especially vans).
Nice job!
Thank you. Glad you found us!
You are one of very few people who have installed a mini split into a vehicle utilizing solar on UA-cam. I am very interested to do this my self, however, I am still skeptical. I feel if it is better (like most people who have them say it is), why aren't more people doing this instead of using inefficient, loud and expensive 12V systems? Thank you for your video!
In a word, they are ignorant. Most people do not conduct (an most don't believe themselves capable) the analysis themselves and believe the 'wishful thinking' of others who want to feel knowledgeable, thereby providing hearsay/poor advice. I think it started with DC fridges. People rave that DC fridges are so much more efficient than absorption fridges, and they are. The absorption process is 8x more energy intensive than the Carnot (compressor) process so they think this also applies to other forms of refrigeration such as A/C. OBTW, my 11.4cuft residential 120VAC refrigerator is 20% more efficient than an a 10cuft RV 12VDC refrigerator. See my video on it from 4 months ago. Also, I managed a company making custom server room air conditioning equipment for 2-1/2 years so I am somewhat intimate with A/C equipment..
There are two categories of efficiencies in A/C. Those that are regulated and high performance is mandated (anything that is part of a building) and those that are not regulated and they compete on price alone. RV A/C is in the latter. You will find it very hard to find performance data for RV A/C. The RV market segment that live in RV parks does not care about efficiency and really doesn't need to. The (growing) segment that wants to operate off the grid, SHOULD care a lot but largely does not. I will likely write an article for Truck Camper Adventure Magazine some time in the next 6 months on this exact issue. TBL, (My guess) Regulated A/C has efficiency ratings (EER not SEER) of ~14, unregulated has EER ~7, including DC.
One key in higher efficiency A/C is a larger evaporator. Making the outdoor unit larger is contrary to market desire, and more expensive, so manufacturers conveniently ignore efficiency improvements.
Another is compressor speed control while maintaining torque which is the domain of 'inverter' (AC induction) motor controls. DC motors have inherent problems maintaining power at lower speeds. Running a compressor at lower speeds also requires a variable expansion valve (allows a broader range of refrigerant flow) which is electronically controlled which is often found on residential variable speed units but to my knowledge, is not used on anything RV or DC.
Making an RV capable of using A/C off-grid, has to start with the smallest unit that will do the job at high efficiency which virtually requires an inverter controlled mini-split. There may be some 'window' units that have the same capabilities but I don't like them for noise reasons.
Anyway...yes you hit a soft spot and it seems you are well aware of the challenges......let me know if I can help.
@@WorkingOnExploring What a wonderful response! I can totally see your arguments as to why individuals have not made the switch in addition to industry leaders. Its a hurdle for industry leaders $$. I have also heard the planned obsolescence argument.
Now for the hard decision: Do i dump 30K into a slightly used Promaster, custom fabricate the interior, build out a 24V 900W 600Ah solar system, and install a technically advanced boon docking AC system as a novice in all fields required?
@@clawson7064 That is the conundrum: get by with low performance of standard products or invest time, $ and effort to develop what you really want. It is also a question if you 'enjoy the journey' of developing your own RV. Lots of folks accept and are up to the challenge of mechanical interior tasks, it's another level to pursue more technical, analytical, or conceptual endeavors. I always encourage the attempt. There is lots of 'growth" in the experience and tons of folks who are willing to help you through.
@@stevehericks5764 Just picking your brain here: I know there will be many moments I curse myself for having begun the journey of going all the way with a conversion. However, I know I would be able to do it in the end. There are a few issues; I don't have a garage, I'll be doing this in Alabama (its hot), I only currently own about 10% of the tools I will need.
You definitely hit the nail on the head about what exactly is the conundrum.
@@clawson7064 If you have a piece of ground, It may be possible to buy and erect an RV shelter which has 2" pipe arches and a tarp cover... I believe they are in various lengths and would give you vehicle cover plus work space... It still would not be secure so tools and parts would need to go in the van or house every night... Could also be neighborhood prohibitions against either erecting a shelter or "working on a disabled vehicle'..... Sounds like a lot of planning on both what to build and how to build may be the first step. Look in Craigslist for someone offering to rent shop space or wanting to share a rental. Sharing shop space may also give you access to tools you don't have...possibly find someone wanting to do the same thing and you could help each other.... Forums may be a locator... Likely not cheap... The south is not my favorite region...Starting with Airborne school at Ft Benning in January (big ice storm) and Ranger school in July 3 years later.... I'm a Montana boy and you can keep the heat (and humidity). I would not willingly live there and would only travel there outside of summer.... Similar reasons I left MT...
Hey guys, awesome build! Am just in the planning stages of mine (just about to flat deck my truck!) I've decided on going the mini split route (ran on solar) but had a question which might be right up Steve's alley!
What is more efficient to cool a camper: parking in the shade (less solar power to operate AC, but obviously keeps the camper cooler) or parking in full, direct sunlight to collect as much solar power as possible to run the AC strong?
Keep the videos coming! Thanks! 🍻
I think the answer to that is insulation. With a lot of insulation, heat gain from being in the sun can be lower and cooling equipment can be smaller (probably more important). Without good insulation, the amount of panels and a/c capacity get out of control. Having a lot of panels to cover the roof is also a given both because they shade the roof and you will always need as much as you can get. With our 'small' camper, the way I decided to shape the camper, the roof obstacles (vent fans and other roof mounted equipment) that limit space available for panels, you need to be very calculating on the layout. I designed everything on the roof around the size and arrangement of panels. Don't use flexible panels. Laying them on the roof will conduct a lot of heat into the habitat. You want to allow the panels to have air circulation beneath both for the panels to cool and the roof shade to be effective in preventing solar gain being conducted into the box. Also depends on if you camp in places that COULD provide shade. We camp on the desert some where shade isn't possible. I have also considered putting some panels on my jeep that I may be able to park in the sun while the camper is in the shade (haven't built that). We haven't tested this much since my solar panels were bad last summer and don't need A/c yet this season.
They say this is the best way to go. We have a rooftop ac if it goes out, the mini split will be the next ac.
Don,
Rooftop A/C's are pretty reliable so you may want to think in terms of cost/convenience of operation. If you have to pack and use a large generator, need a large inverter to get it to start (and could downgrade to a better pure sine), want to operate at least some time on a large battery, all could be possible with a small mini-split. If you wait for the rooftop to die, you may be prolonging your agony. A mini-split is more cost effective and FAR quieter due to the mass market demand, FAR more efficient by government mandate and more scalable with RV power systems. We operate from ~4A at low to 8A at high to 10A in overdrive ('jet') mode. Inverter control of the compressor ramps up to speed on startup over several minutes making even small inverters/battery systems able to power a small unit (ours is 9KBTU). The mechanical robustness is a question but buying a name brand was my thought on improving that risk.
If you're looking to justify a mini-split, it might be worth calculating how much fuel your generator uses. I can't find the spreadsheet tab where I did the math, but I estimated for my setup that a mini split would pay for itself in 100 to 200 days. You might be surprised.
LG mini split is my favorite and I also like LG solar panels as well.
Really nice job! massive upgrade. I’m almost done with my install, very similar. Is your condenser able to pull air from below or does it pull from the sides/front? thanks
Just looked at your short video with the flaps! very cool. I’ve got mesh on mine but the flaps might be slightly better especially for water! nice idea thanks allot
Looking at the front of the condenser, it intakes air from the left side ( very small but present) and the back (most). My intent is for it to bring air from under the truck which may be cooler as the camper has shaded the ground. The condenser has 8" behind it, 2.5" on each end and 2" above. The vast majority of intake is from below through the backside. The residential clearance specs are very large and I have grossly violated them, probably with a small performance decrease.....as I write this, we have traveled 250 miles since noon in temps 100-111°F...we arrived at our boondocking site at 9PM and 103°....the camper was 107° inside....it was my very first field trial so I didn't pre-ventilate with fans, I just hit the A/C into 'jet mode' (runs at 120% capacity). Mind you, I bought the smallest unit so it would be efficient over the long term but in 10-20 minutes, it was very liveable in the camper....
One more thought, I made the staggered flaps with a soft plastic mud flap material. I wanted the somewhat stiff to block rocks and mud. The condensing unit is sheet metal on the bottom but I'm concerned with ricochets into the condenser...it wouldn't take too many ricks bouncing against the coil to bend fins a lot.
@@WorkingOnExploring Really appreciate the reply, that’s great info! nice job. Have toy thought about running the unit when you’re moving? i’m planning on running mine. “Hopefully” it can still move the required air from behind and push it out without the detrimental effects of air pressure. It’s going to be a bit of trial and error i guess
Running while moving will ether work or not...can't think there will be much in the middle....if you have high ground clearance, I think it's more likely to have higher pressure than lower when moving....good luck....but as I say, hopefully luck is not a factor
I realize this video is a little older so not sure if you are still monitoring the comments but I have been looking at the mini split in an RV idea however I have an older Toyota Dolphin and as is common in many older RV's the ceiling height is just over 6 feet. In fact this is part of impotence to change as I hit my head on the Coleman. I watched your other video too where you disclose you have a smaller gap on the top than manufacturer specs but the big question I'm left with is the model you use still wants about 7.5 feet to the floor from the bottom of the unit if I remember correctly. In all the units I've looked at the principle seems to be the same. They were built for a minimum ceiling height of 8 feet. Given the background you have stated in this video can you answer why the bottom clearance is so large and why we can do much less for shorter rigs?
I can't recall the exact clearances specified in the installation instructions but think they asked for something like 6" high between the top of the IDU and ceiling. I have a little over 2" high across about 2' wide in the center and 4" high over about 4" long on both ends. I think if you were able to have 2.5"-3" across the top, airflow would be acceptable. The cross flow blower used in the IDU has a pretty high capacity to work at high static pressure. A restricted intake is a bad thing but would actually be hard to create. The supply output is about 2" high by 30" wide (60 sqin). I think as long as the intake area is 2x-3x the supply it is acceptable.
Also, the entire top of the IDU has a filter screen that needs to be removed and cleaned periodically and that needs to still be possible which would not be if the clearance was less than 2".
Well if you have been running it for a couple years now then perhaps the clearances really are a guidance for best results but have room for adjustment. I've looked at a lot of different units and they all seem to land about the same. The measurements of bottom clearance, head unit size, and top clearance are almost exactly 8 foot on every unit I've seen. I appreciate all the detail you gave especially explaining the issue with the 12 v units. I considered it but the price was a real issue before you even revealed the efficiency problems.
I am a former director of operations at a custom A/C manufacturer and a mechanical engineer so I have more than anecdotal experience with airflow conditions. The high velocity supply air discharge is intended to project deeply into the room which is a technique that only mini-splits and rooftop A/Cs attempt to do. High velocity creates lots of problems. The 60sqin discharge area is a function of that high velocity discharge. By having 2-3x the intake area the intake velocity is 1/2 to 1/3rd the discharge which is still high but sufficient not to create a restriction that would reduce air volume. Obviously the more intake area the better. I don't think I'd be ok with 2:1 and would work hard to guarantee 3:1. High velocity air is a major source of noise as well which the very quiet IDUs don't want to compromise
Important is condenser unit install. It went so fast in install video...where to find place...how to cut ... ventilation...please make video
I just shot some more video on some details on the installation. We should get it posted in the next couple days. If you still have more questions, let me know and I'll get them answered
Hi Steve,
Excellent design and execution of your mini-split. I was very interested to discover your video about this because I have been researching and designing a system very similar to what you have already done. I have a Ford Econoline 350 high-top that I was planning to install the same LG mini split in.
I am planning on having a 24V LifeP04 280A 6800Wh battery system with 975W of fixed roof top solar and a 2500-3000W inverter charge controller. Beneath the underside of the van floor just behind the rear differential I have a nice space that the compressor unit will fit with the normal vertical installation and I can even have the airflow over the coils in the proper direction while moving. The unit will be no lower than the pumpkin on the differential, so no ground clearance issues. The panels will cover a 10' by 5.5' section of my roof. My van will be all electric. No propane or diesel fuel for heating or cooking. I will use induction cooking and a microwave.
I will have a very similar system to yours but with about 1/3 the battery capacity. My way to control the battery drain is to not stay where it is 90 degree plus or very cold so as to not have to run the air or heat continuously.
I have considered removing the factory rear air and heat from the van and using the mini split while driving but I don't want to till it is thoroughly tested.
I was wondering about the condensate drain. I assume it drains from either the left or right side of the air handler. Do you have issues with draining if your vehicle is leaning? I thought on mine I might have a drain on both sides to remedy this. I was planning on having a fine mesh screen surrounding the compressor unit to prevent small rock or debris damage to the coils. I was wondering about dirt and dust and how fast that might affect the coil efficiency.
If you have any suggestions for me or cautions I would very much appreciate hearing about them. Thanks
Sounds like you have a pretty similar design. Some thoughts: The condensate line is permanently attached (about 30" long, insulated 1/2" tube) to the right side of the indoor coil (as you look at it). To have it come out the left side, it is routed across a channel inside the cover and underneath the condensate tray (along with power and refrigerant tubes) so I don't think there is any way to actually drain the tray from the left. I connect every thing from the right so I didn't look at that option. Don't think of the units as evaporator and condenser. Because this is a heat pump, not just A/C, either coil can be condenser or evaporator. The point being, both coils will condense moisture in the right conditions.
The outdoor unit is not designed to be used while in motion. I can think of several potential issues in having air forced through the outdoor unit: 1) I'm not sure if the condenser fan is a VFD controlled induction motor or a electrically commutated DC motor but am pretty sure it's one or the other. The outdoor fan runs somewhat low rpm to be quiet. If the fan was over driven by air motion, (which I'm quite sure it would be at highway speed and if it's an induction motor) the motor would become a generator and likely burn out the control electronics. It may even do that if it were not energized if it is a permanent magnet DC design. It's possible the electronics are protected against this but I tend to doubt it. The condenser performance is significantly affected by dust and and debris. 2) Literally, any large grain of sand picked up under the vehicle and ingested at 60mph is going to bend fins. A fine enough mesh to block 'large sand' sized debris is also going to significant reduce air flow. 3) When the unit is operated as a heat pump, condensation occurs on the outdoor coil which simply drips out the bottom (no collection tray needed because it's outside). If dusty air were blown through the unit, even by vehicle motion, it would cake onto the wet coil and choke the coil pretty quickly. Spraying water into the outdoor coil is the solution to dust collection but can also bend fins (never use a pressure washer).
For the above reasons, I intend to never use my unit while in motion and mounted it to minimize any motion induced air flow. I also think
Fat fingered and missed the last thought: I would definitely keep the factory heat/air as it's contribution is essentially 'free' where using the minisplit is 'expensive'. Redundancy is also important to me. Finally, while mounting the outdoor unit in the location you describe seems desirable, I would only do it if you were only to always to be driving paved roads. I think being that low on a gravel road would not last long. Good luck
@@WorkingOnExploring
This is exactly the kind of feedback I was hoping for. There are almost always things not accounted for. I had not thought of the fan motor spinning and acting like a generator. While aware that the outside coil condenses on heat mode I was not thinking of the moisture collecting dust and dirt.
Probably the best thing to do would be would be to make an easily removed shield that would block air flow and dust (to a limited degree) into the fan and coils under the van. And scratch the idea of using while driving.
What are the concerns you see for driving on a gravel road? The underneath of the van in that location seems to be pretty clean as it is between the wheels and not behind them.
There is a significant compression of air under a vehicle, as air attempts to go under it, that stirs up a lot of small particles on a gravel road. Not just the tires. Eliminating the compression and associated drag is why all recent vehicles mount some type of 'air dam' below the front bumper to push air around the vehicle instead of under. Debris large enough to bend coil fins will be propelled by this air current and dust most certainly. Using a removable shield would work but how problematic is it going to be to install and remove? When the ground is wet? When it's snowy? Would it be better to put a fresh or gray water tank here? (this is where my gray tank is) and find a more accessible place for the outdoor unit? Seems like a lot of risk with an expensive and fragile piece of equipment (which is exactly the thought going through my mind when I decided to put mine above the tire). I made louvers from mud flap under mine to deflect rocks and not use a screen or a removable guard (my initial thought). Seems to be working so far. It does require some space....
@@WorkingOnExploring
All points well taken. On my vehicle there really is no other location to locate the outside unit. The rear bumper is allocated to a motorcycle carrier. Being a window van and not an RV, there is really no space on the sides to locate the outdoor unit contained in a box similar to yours. While I am not an off-roader, I think it is unavoidable to not go down an unpaved road occasionally. I think the way forward for me unless I scrap the whole idea is to find solutions to mitigate all the known issues. Crawling under the van to attach or remove a shield is less than convenient but maybe necessary. While I had already planned to use a screen to prevent pea sized gravel from damaging the coil, I had not anticipated that sand or dust would have enough mass to bend fins. By giving it a bit more thought I can hopefully come up with good solution. Maybe just a louver in front of the coil with the screen would be sufficient.
I don't know yet. A heat pump still seems like a better solution than a separate diesel heater and a window unit or a two hose portable aircon unit or several other systems I have seen installed.
On a separate question, in real world usage at approximately 90F how much power is used over a period on an hour or for 4 hours or 8 hours. Does the unit cycle? I know that this is going to have many factors influencing it such as insulation, windows air leaks etc.
Knowing it is drawing 720W on regular high does not really tell how much electricity it uses over a time period. I was hoping for real world observations you have made.
Thank you for this most informative content. I'm considering a mini-split for a high-roof Ford Transit van build. Curious if you have any thoughts about the Midea (or other brands) "U-shaped" window units. They appear to have some (not all) the benefits and efficiencies of a mini-split.
It's taken me a while to get around to checking on his ... I'm trying to get a house built....There is a lot of hype (mostly over the unique shape, wifi connectivity, and app) which has low value to me. There are a lot of positive reviews but very little technical detail. It is a variable capacity that has the efficiency potential and has a low noise level *(47dBA-high-42dBA -low). Its available in 8kBTU, 10kBTU, and 12kBTU which is a very small capacity differential. I would really like to know more about the capacity range. A lot of the Midea variable capacity mini-splits have a variable capacity of ~110%-50% whereas the premium units are 120% -30%. I find that mine (LG) spends little time running at max and a lot running at low speed which I think is most valuable. If the unit could not 'turn down' to 30%, it would keep drawing a lot of power (critical if you want to run battery/solar) or potentially over-cool the space (small spaces produce control problems). I think the mechanics (gimmick?) of the U-shape work well for residential but work against any RV install (where I see its lack of strength as a liability). LG makes some 'dual inverter' window/wall units that are likely repackaged mini-splits making them attractive although they are big (too big?) at 14kBTU/18kBTU and 22kBTU for van use. I think they would be good for larger RV replacements if the owner were willing/able to cut a hole in the RV and place most of it inside.
@@WorkingOnExploring -great insights. You've given me some more things to consider in my research--appreciate it...and good luck with the house build!
The primary reason standard RV AC units are so noisy is that none of the manufactures have bothered to "try" to make them quieter.
Absolutely correct. It's not hard to use better fans but the challenge of moving all the air in and out of the 14x14 hole in the roof is the real problem. No manufacturer seems to want to work with an A/C manufacturer to break that legacy problem and design to a bigger hole allowing lower velocity air movement. A/C's came after the 14x14 fan was standardized and have been stuck with it for over 50 years..
@@WorkingOnExploring Right. I've been RVing now for 35 years. It's kind of like hot dogs and buns. They refuse to work to together to get the same number of buns as dogs in a package.
I would argue that each perceives a minute advantage of their own position and is afraid of being the first to 'step out of line' for fear of being ostracized. They both need to change but neither wants to undergo the expense and other potential 'threats' of being the first.....America used to be about innovation regardless of what the pundits said....let the beneficiaries decide...Cancel culture is a broader 'disease' that now makes it about conformity...unless you are politically connected...I may be taking it a bit too far though....
@@WorkingOnExploring Certainly new risks (innovation) will have it's share of failures. And I completely agree that America did used to be about this innovation, risk takers seemed to be championed, and there were commensurate rewards with these risks. To me, it seems that economically and politically there are less obvious incentives to take these risks, with government increasing its size, so this innovative America has, hopefully temporarily, been very much slowed down. All real wealth (not fiat money wealth) occurs when innovation occurs. So when we want to implement, those of us that can create analyze and build ( the DIYer) have a pretty good chance of coming up with innovative solutions that work. It would be great to market it if desired, but at least we can do it for ourselves. At least youtube information sharing/internet knowledge (knowledge at our fingertips) and the vast speed of logistics in delivery help us work around the lack of innovation in industry.
Innovation has to be motivated. Regulation is demotivating. High taxation is demotivating, particularly in the RV industry where manufacturers are competing for 'spare' money. RV manufacturers (and I worked 4 years for one) are mostly in a race to the bottom. Making the cheapest possible unit and hoping to make money on customization and service. It's not an environment that fosters much innovation as much as it is needed and wanted.
try this in Florida - your mini split will run 800-1200 watts
High loads on residential A/C in humid environments are a caused by interior moisture content. Latent heat (change in temperature that includes phase change of moisture) and Sensible heat (change in temperature that does not include phase change of moisture) are things that most people don't understand (including a lot of technical people). The industry term for the amount of Sensible (cooling) versus Latent (cooling) is called the Sensible Heat Ratio (SHR). Most A/C is designed with SHR of .7-.8 meaning 70-80% of the energy used by the unit is devoted to just changing air temperature and not condensing moisture, (except in high humidity areas). In high humidity areas, the energy needed to cool the moist air is MUCH higher, requiring higher capacity units to achieve the same cooling effect. The key is to dehumidify interior air and keep it that way. For the most part, that is not a problem in the West.....while I have lived in the south for short periods (military), hot and wet are not where I plan to be, especially if my home is on wheels. The rated unit load (at 9kBTU) on my A/C is 742W. I chose it small because I have good insulation and air sealing. If I were to be in hot/humid, with my small space, this unit can be run on 'jet mode' which is 115% capacity, (~950W for 30 minutes) in which time, I think it would adequately dehumidify the interior air to reduce the latent heat load quite a bit and I would likely be able to keep comfortable at or below the rated load. This could continue as long as there was not a lot of door opening and closing, admitting humid air.
I am in process of building a motorhome on a Kenworth T300. The box is 26 foot however the living area is only 10 feet. The back 16 feet is a garage for my jeep. I have been looking into the mini split air over the last couple of years. I was told by one manufacturer that it wouldn't work on a moving vehicle. I have since seen videos showing it does work while moving. I've looked at Gree, AUX and others. I se you have chosen LG. What model is it? What type of battery are you using? Ampere hour? Looks great.
I am using an 9kBTU LG LS090HXV2. It is the smallest unit they make and is 120V with a variable speed compressor and Electronic Expansion Valve, allowing operation between 40--120% of capacity. They also make a 12kBTU. If your box is well insulated, and you intent to flee to cooler weather, the smaller will likely be fine. Dont buy more than you need. The residential planning factor is 400-600SF per ton (12kBTU) with much more insulation than your RV will have. My box is 7'x12' and has 2" of polyisocyanurate insulation that is R13.
Working while moving is a crap shoot and needs to be planned for to be truly successful. I doubt people who claim that it works, actually know if it performs as intended. I bet it does cool at least some and to them that is working but I doubt it work as correctly as they 'see/feel'. It can and will operate poorly, in a stress condition that will likely catch up to them at some point. The problem is usually poor airflow through the condenser due to the slip stream of the box interfering with flow. I do not operate mine while moving, more because I don't see a reason. I think the right way to operate A/C is to first start with a lot of air ventilation then close it up and turn it on and I also don't want any of my 4 Maxxair fans open while moving. My condensing unit draws air from beneath the vehicle and discharges it out the driver side. It is likely that highway speeds the right angle flow across the discharge air path would interfere with it. If you were somewhat creative with making sure moving airflow was not at angles to stationary airflow, it might work OK.
I chose LG because I don't have great confidence in Chinese compressors (I was director of Ops for a custom server room air conditioning manufacturer before I retired). LG makes their own compressors and they are very advanced in design. Other compressor manufacturers of quality are Copeland and Danfoss, both of which I used professionally. Many of the low cost 'off brand' mini split air conditioners you find in the market are made in China by Midea and sold under 17 different brand names. If it is one you are not familiar with the brand, it is likely a Midea made unit. They are all nearly identical except for minor features. They are not 'bad', just mediocre. For a little bit more you can get something of higher performance that is likely to be more gentle on your battery and live a longer life in an arduous environment. I also have a German made, 11.4CuFt residential refrigerator for which there is a YT video for similar reasons.
I operate on a 24V/17.5kWh battery made from Nissan Leaf EV packs. I have the 12V equivalent of 1166Ah of usable capacity which is much or more than most class A's. I run a Samlex EVO 4024, 4kw low frequency inverter. The A/C draws ~8A/120V at full speed and ~10A at 'Jet mode' (120%). The inverter control ramps the compressor up and down over several minutes so there is no starting surge to deal with. I have no doubt you could run it successfully on a quality 1500w PS inverter.
Installing a unit does require fabrication and A/C knowledge to bend, flare and connect copper refrigerant tubing, leak check, and evacuate to 500 microns before refrigerant release.
Any other questions, please ask...happy to help.
@@WorkingOnExploring I have mini splits in my house and love them.
I had thoughts of ducting the air in and out of the condenser so that when the truck is in motion, it would scoop air in. It's going to hang under the bed so there is ample space.
It's not an off road vehicle so it won't be at odd angles or bouncing.
Looking at eight solar panels on the roof producing up to 2kw. I have a 320 amp alternator that will run the whole truck and charge. I have a 7.5kw diesel Onan unit I was going to mount but now I don't think I need it. May get a little gas throw down 1200 watt unit for emergencies.
Thanks for your time.
Where can I get a box like that for campervan install? (instead of mounting condenser on back door, etc.)
If you mean just a recess big enough for the ODU in the side, I don't imagine that would be difficult to build from a number of material types. The real issue will be if you're brave enough to cut a hole in the side of the van body. My entire cabin and the recess are made from 5mm plywood on either side of 2" polyiso insulation and a 2" poplar perimeter SIPs (structural insulated panel). Afterward, they are covered all around with 6oz fiberglass cloth and polyester resin. I'd imagine you would need a curved interface if you want to follow the wall curvature which would be difficult with that construction as would gluing and fiberglassing the wall interface seam. You could project the straight edge box through the curved wall till it was tangent but that would likely look odd. I'd probably start with trimming the hole with a piece of 1"x1/16 aluminum angle with the flange facing inward. The angle will likely bend to follow the body curve. Screw or rivet it on with butyl tape sealant. With the inward facing aluminum flange, you can cut an aluminum sheet to match and rivet that to the angle flange. I see no need to provide framing if you use .040 or .052 aluminum sheet and riveted architectural angle to connect corners. Insulate with rigid foam and either put an interior cabinet over it or protect the insulation from damage with 2.8mm luan plywood. Hope this is what you're looking for. No idea of who could or would do it but there are any number of van builders who might.
Great content. Thank you. Would love to hear more about the methodology you used routing your copper tubing, low voltage wiring, and also high voltage wiring. Also, maybe some content on the efficiency of the outside louver. Did you have to remove some of them to increase airflow to the compressor?
The condensing unit, being in the driver's side fender well, has all the connections on the lower rear side. I made a 1.5" hole through the wheel well at inside floor level and came out under the kitchen cabinet, following the floor, up the back slope to the edge of the back wall. This all goes in the bottom of a storage space and is not protected. When it turns 4ft up the back wall, it is inside a 2x4 aluminum cover. This route is extremely direct and is only about 11ft. This run includes the 1/2" PEX condensate drain which discharges in the wheel well, 1/4" soft copper liquid line, 3/8" soft copper vapor line, 3 wire SJOOW 16 AWG power (2 conductors) and signal (1conductor) cable and a separate 16AWG equipment ground wire. The power goes to the CU through the same hole in a 14AWG SJOOW cable. SJOOW is reinforced extension cord cable. There are no low voltage cables. When all was tested, I sealed the wall through grommet with expanding foam.
The louver worked well as designed. Each louver is made of a 2.5",. 040" aluminum strip bent at 45° along the length with 1.5" spacing. The condenser airflow is both much less in volume than I thought and quite low velocity. I do not operate it while driving because I'm sure the slip stream would cause problems.
Tubing is connected with SAE flares at both ends. Use only a quality, orbital style flaring tool. I recommend using only the minimum amount of line and especially not standard, untrimmed linesets (such as Mr Cool) as attractive as they sound to enable an install without a tech. Leaving a coil of excess line creates an 'oil trap' which likely cause compressor oil starvation.
My power supply cable is all inside the habitat and runs in a 1-1/4" space under 1-5/8" tall duck board flooring or under cabinetry. The A/C is on a dedicated 16A DIN rail breaker and also has a power consumption meter which displays A, V, W and Wh. It draws 8A at full load, 10.4A in 'Jet' (120%) mode and 4A at its lowest compressor speed. With the I side fan only, it draws .4A.
@@WorkingOnExploring thank you for all of the very mindful comments. I really appreciate it. At 55, I am about to start the journey of at least half-time rv living and I already know the "stock" A/C's are horribly inefficient. This solves that problem. I look forward to more of your content.
I wish I knew someone who could do this for me with solar in my Forest River 368RLBHK I’ve lived in for the last 6 years, not only is PG&E killing me all summer long (bill is $500-900 month) my unit is never less than 90 when it’s 110 in the California heat. It’s Hot! I have 2 units that run constantly. If id have known….
I can understand how you feel. I've worked in both RV manufacturing and air-conditioning manufacturing. RVs have poor insulation AND inefficient air conditioners. Few owners endure it for long because they typically move on or finish their trip. Those who do long term, come to understand the truth as you apparently have....being educated is the first step.
Hi there. I understand that the temperature outside negates how powerful you’d want the air conditioner to be running if the temperature was 90 and I wanted it to be 60° how many watts per hour would this mini split use? I have 600 amp hour batteries a nice 3000 W inverter and I believe, two 100 W solar like yours I power my batteries when I drive
This is an extremely difficult question to answer and I can't answer it for you. I can only show you the process by which you might achieve an approximation. In describing how to go about it, you will likely conclude that its a lot of work because it is.
Calculating heat load on a structure is a matter of 1) calculating the effective insulation using the insulation value of the wall x the surface area + the insulating value of the windows x the window area etc. 2) using the effective insulating value and gross surface area to determine the heat loss. The residential equivalent is calculated using a process called 'Manual J' and there are videos that can walk you through those calculations. 3) Once you know heat loss, which will be something like X BTUs/hour per 10-degree temperature differential. Once you pick your conditions you can get a number for heat loss. Since you want the temperature to be stable, heat loss (or gain in the case of A/C) must be offset by the equipment's capacity. Assuming you have something like 6000BTU/hr loss or gain at your preferred temperature differential. 4) You can either get a specific power chart from the equipment manufacturer or use some simple interpolation from data they usually give (likely most you'll get) to figure out what power the equipment draws at that capacity. If you look for a 'submittal' or detailed data sheet for the equipment, it will usually give the power consumed for several BTU capacities. It is unlikely any of these will coincide with one of your provided equipment specs but with several of these data points (often mini-splits will provide info for min-nominal-max), you can interpolate your number within the range. 5) There will be a number of assumptions made on the way through all these calculations and if you don't make a decent educated guess of most if not all of them, you will come out with a very inaccurate answer. I'm not trying to be evasive but I am trying to show that it is difficult.
(The easier way) One of the ways I used to approximate it is; in cold weather, I put a small electric heater inside the camper and ran for several days, adjusting the heater's output so the inside temperature was at the correct temperature and stayed there. I used a 'Kill-a-watt' meter so I was able to see how much electricity (in watts) the heater was converting to heat. When the heat generated inside is stable, the heat released in the space is equal to the heat lost from the space. The wind obviously makes big difference so must be done in no wind conditions.
The key to achieving an ability to operate continuously is a) that your generation has to equal or exceed your consumption on a daily basis. b) Batteries are only there for the times when generation and consumption are occurring at different times. The size of the battery needs to be enough to bridge that time. If you look at my other A/C videos (there are 4) , I have one that discusses how we operate A/C for 8 hours per day. In that, show an energy balance chart showing the relationship between generation, consumption (by all sources) and the battery capacity needed to bridge the difference. It is a helpful exercise to do that for your situation.
My problem is that I cannot find anybody who would install a split unit. RV place says I need an A/C guy the A/C guy says I need an RV Tech. Can someone help me.
I suggest you find a small, possibly sole proprietor.....and not seek to have the work done in 'prime cooling season'. The biggest challenge is the mechanical installation which could probably be done by a handyman, then have an A/C tech install the lines and charge the system.
I really appreciate all your very technical answers in the comments here. I’m planning out how to install a mini split in my 35’ 1995 Pace Arrow class A.
Do you have any thoughts or experience with the square ceiling mount indoor units? I was thinking of installing one in a 45 degree diamond orientation over the center of the bed, so that you could adjust the vents over the the head and foot, right and left of the bed (Mitsubishi definitely lets you do that, Durastar seems to have a single global vane setting, still researching)
I’m thinking that in the front I would have one ceiling unit towards the middle above the kitchen and dinette, and another at the front where it would blow on the couch and driver and passenger seats (which we use when parked)
Part of my thinking is that having the AC able to blow right on people is a good way to reduce power usage - don’t need to cool the entire RV as much.
The other approach that I previously thought might work is using two mini duct indoor units and the existing ductwork. But your comments on air velocity and noise make me think that’s probably a bad idea.
I have looked and looked inside my RV and I just don’t see a place where I could fit any of the traditional ductless indoor units without giving up storage space.
Do you think I’m on the right track? I need to figure out the roofing framework / internals to see if I can actually safely cut the holes I’d need. I’m planning on getting rid of the basement permanently mounted propane tank and putting the outdoor unit where it was. Then will experiment with a winter of heat pump use and see if we need to get a diesel furnace to supplement the heat pump.
I thought about trying to mount the outdoor unit on the back of the RV but there isn’t any obvious place to mount supports up high, and we don’t use propane much, and our propane tank was made in 1994 so it’s probably due for replacement.
Sorry, that’s a lot of explanation and text. You know far, far more about HVAC than I do, so I’d love to hear if I’m on the right track. (I’m not too worried about power; generator plus 240v transformer to start, then when I have some power usage data, a Victron inverter and solar and I’ll keep buying 200Ah LiFePO4 batteries till I’m happy. Got one now and a very happy residential fridge…)
Thanks!
Sorry for the tardy response....we've been in the back country, out of cel service.... TBL; Neat idea (ceiling cassette) but nearly impossible to get to work. The ceiling 'cassettes' are neat, especially IF you could get them into an RV ceiling BUT, they are pretty large. They are on the order of 2ft l x 2 ft w by 1ft h. The would not fit into a 14x14 hole of a roof A/C of fan. It would be a MAJOR construction job to get one in a ceiling. Knowing what I know (I was the plant engineer for Safari Motor Coaches for 3.5 years) I would NOT do it. There are significant reinforcing trusses on BOTH side of the 14" hole to support the roof A/C and making it big enough for the cassette would require cutting at leas on of them. I don't think you could adequately support the roof without replacing it and that means going all the way across the roof. It WOULD also stick above the roof. I don't think you want something hanging down a foot from the ceiling? Check your specific specifications for the exact size. Wall units tend to be the most common for a reason. I understand not wanting to give away overhead storage but everything is a compromise. Maybe put a roof mounted carry box where your roof A/C was? (not sexy).
I doubt your propane tank has suffered any degradation due to time. The worst think is exterior rust but that should be minimal. Remove it if you wish but the death of an A/C condenser is most often caused by a lack of adequate ventilation. If you look at the clearance requirements for mounting the condensing unit, they are large. I'm sure you could mount it in a basement but I think you would need significant sheet metal ducting to insure airflow was adequate and not recirculating (meaning instead of the the intake getting cool air, it gets a lot of hot exhaust air because the airstreams are not separated properly). I know one guy who put one in a bus basement and planned to leave bag boxes open on both sides to draw air all the way through the basement. That would work and is on the order of what I think would be needed in your situation.
The 'inverter' type minisplits have a slow startup that make it very easy to start with none of the 'surge' you have from a conventional unit. They are very easy to start, never drawing more than their full load. Mine (an LG 9kBTU/120v) takes several minutes to reach full load (8A @ 120V).
@@WorkingOnExploring Thank you for your very thorough and detailed response; no need to apologize for having fun in the wilderness. I don’t know how I missed the UA-cam notification when you replied.
When someone with more knowledge and skills than I have tells me that they wouldn’t do something, I’ve learned that I should listen. I don’t want to rebuild my RV’s roof; it seems to be in pretty good shape.
Based on what you’ve said, I’m going to re-measure various parts of the RV and figure out what my options are - maybe I can sacrifice a drawer under the dinette for a mini-duct unit? Or one of the floor mount units can be snuck in somewhere else?
To that end - do you have any thoughts on what brands I should be looking at? I had previously limited myself to the LG MultiF 24k BTU because it’s ~26” tall and fits in the basement. The MultiF LGRed ones are >33”. But if it’s going to be mounted on the back, then I can use any brand at all. It does get cold here so having a low temperature heat pump would be great. MultiF LGRed is what I will probably start looking at indoor units for.
Re: 1 foot down from the ceiling, I did actually check that before. It would…be great for reminding me to take my shoes off, because if I was wearing shoes I would hit my head on it.
Im 6'4" and hit my head on lots of things so not producing 'headbangers' is a priority.... A Chinese company called Midea markets under 17 brands in The US... Mr. Cool, Senville, C&H, are a few of their brands. They are not bad but because of the space constraints, and need for ruggedness, I would stick with a name brand that is not Chinese. LG, Mitsubishi, Daikin, are some.I looked at size a lot and LG was smallest. If you want a dual zone system, you will need a 230v unit. Mine is LG, 9KBTU, 120V. 230V makes it a shore power only solution but for something as large as your rig, that's probably anticipated. I just came back from ID where we used our heat pump for a week (our lot there has grid power) and it was very nice to have a quiet and effective heater.
@@WorkingOnExploring Thanks for the brand suggestions - that makes sense.
LG had the second most comprehensive data sheet, which I appreciated. Can't remember whose was best. I was disappointed that LG's graphs were sometimes low res, and they included airflow for only one setting / angle - I want to know the whole range of settings, so I can figure out if I can gently blow cold air on the seat I will be at, *or* have it blow diffusely so that it's not directly on me.
I am planning on running the AC off batteries. I am still figuring out if I am going to get a 220v inverter, or have phase paired 110v Victron inverters. I have a 2000+W 110/220v transformer that I can use, though it's quite heavy so I don't think I will use it indefinitely. (Used to use it in the UK to power my 110v appliances...) I've got current transformers on my transfer switch to measure how much power I'm using. I'm going to be collecting data to figure out what my power usage looks like, and determine what I need in terms of battery capacity and inverters. I wouldn't be surprised if I end up with 800+Ah of 12v LiFePo4.
My current setup is a temporary one - 200Ah 12v battery under the dinette, with a 75A AIMS power converter and a 1200w cheap pure sine wave inverter that powers the fridge. Been averaging about 800Wh/day on the fridge - a 10.1 ft2 one that replaced a Dometic propane fridge. Ironically/unexpectedly, my MacBook Pro currently consumes more power than my fridge. Some of my work tools are inefficient.
I have to run the generator some every day to power the microwave and/or Ninja Foodi oven/air fryer/toaster (It's my favorite toaster - you can see what your bread is doing, and you can put butter on it and put it back in to melt it. Love it). The cooking time is just about enough to keep the battery topped up.
I will be putting solar cells on the roof eventually, too. If I can put enough up there to let me not use the generator every day, that would be wonderful, but I am not holding my breath. Lots of cloudy days where I live.
I can't recommend strongly enough that a big battery and need to invert 240v AC really need to be a 24 or 48v system. The high amps of a 12v system demand large cables and create large inductive interference problems. Since you want to run high power devices from battery, you also need to charge at high power. Getting a 12v charger that will allow 200-300A (2.5kw-4kw) is hard and heavy (heavy=expensive). It will be as hard to find and more expensive than a 24 or 48v. You likely already have some investment in 12v but I encourage you to cut your losses now and start with long term cost and efficiency in mind. I realize the I incremental addition approach is attractive but it will lead to expense and inefficiency.
Did you seal odu exhaust air from recirculating back around to inlet?
I presume you are referring to the air circulation around the outdoor unit (condensing unit, CU)? The simple answer is no. The design intent for CU's of all kinds is to use thermal separation to reduce 'recirculation'. Mini-splits all draw air in from the back (some with a tiny bit from the left side) and discharge to the front. The heated air discharging from the front, immediately rises because it is much warmer than surrounding air, leaving the cooler, stationary air (usually cooled by contact with the ground) to be drawn into the rear. In my installation, I have the CU in a recess in the driver's side of the camper where it can only draw air into the back from below, most likely from under the camper but some will come from the edges of the wheel too. The discharge to the CU's front (camper's driver side) does have to go through an additional downward deflecting louver on exit but since it is 40" off the ground, I believe the heated air can travel away from the camper as thermal convection forces redirect the downward deflection and cause it to rise, some farther distance from the camper. The air velocity coming out of the CU is pretty slow (high volume at low velocity is more efficient) and there is not a lot of projection of the warm air away from the camper. At some point, I would like to do a smoke test to see how far the warm air travels both downward and away from the camper but have not done it yet. I hope this makes sense.
I see a lot of mini-split conversions placing the CU on the back bumper or higher up on the back wall, which is a pretty good location for airflow but aesthetically ugly. I want to hide the CU (as well as keep it mounted low) and this was my solution.
Thanks so much. I am seeking a heat pump for my Hallmark Cyclone 41 ft toy hauler and have invested hours in seeking the proper application. Dometic is made in China, Coleman Kansas USA. I was going with the Coleman until I saw this. How could I distribute the air through my ducked system. I've seen videos placing the condensing unit in the storage area. I need 15 k , so assuming I will need two mini's at around 9 k each?? Your thoughts. Ron New Jersey
Minisplits are not all one to one. Some come with outdoor units (ODU) that can provide refrigerant for multiple indoor units. For instance, if you wanted to operate two indoor units of 9kBTU, you can have one 18kBTU ODU (designed to work with dual indoor units). You will have two line sets, one for each IDU. There are several types of IDUs as well. They typical 'wall unit' you already are familiar as it is the most common but there are also 'ceiling cassettes' which are about 20" square and 10" high that you could conceivably build into the ceiling (and cover what sticks through the roof). They are all way bigger than the typical 14" square ceiling hole however. Some manufacturers also make a 'picture frame' unit that is about 30" square and 4" deep and is aced on a wall and covered with a picture. It pulls air in the top and ejects it out the side. A BIG CONSIDERATION should be how efficient the unit is. Any unit made for residential use will be 30-50% more efficient than anything made for an RV. This will be more important if you are operating from your own generator.
The minisplits are all designed for ductless operation and I don't know of any IDUs that are designed for ducts or could be easily adapted. It may be possible to find a small split system with an indoor air handler that could be adapted but I am not familiar with any specifically. I believe the indoor handler would likely be objectionably large and need to be placed where the roof A/C used to live.
Putting the ODU in a lower bag box is possible but they are tall and it MUST sit upright AND have a lot of free airspace around it such as cutting the bottom out.
Great job, where’d you get the cover for the line set?
I made it from a piece of .040 aluminum sheet. I have a 4' finger break
It only requires 4 bends, so it's very easy to make things like that. A local HVAC installer will have a break to make something like it (they make lots of galv steel ducts so they would need one) for you but they will only have galvanized steel.....if you want aluminum, you can buy some at your local metal supplier and cut it to size on a standard (wood cutting) table saw and just bring them the piece for bending.
Does this type of unit need to be installed upright? I'm thinking of trying to install it underneath a suburban.
MUST be installed upright. Oil circulation in the compressor requires; 1) the pickup inside the compressor to be at the lowest point. It cannot be horizontal but can be at an angle if you can figure out how the pickup is oriented inside the compressor. 2) oil flow is assisted by refrigerant but will not flow uphill (much) even with refrigerant flowing uphill. There are 12V truck units where the exterior unit is only a condenser coil and fan that can be mounted at an angle underneath a vehicle and the compressor is either separate or with the inside unit. Search 'cruise n comfort's or see ebay if you want a Chinese unit.
@@WorkingOnExploring Thank you! I'll check that out
Will you install a mini split for me and my 4 rescued pets? 950 watt solar you have? What batteries please?
I am pretty busy for the next month and a half but trying to understand your situation before I can give a hard answer...am I helping or doing it all? what kind of RV? what size and brand A/C? when do you want to do it? can you come to Riverside, CA, etc...I do have 950W solar, 5-190W Solarland SLP190-24S. I have a 17.5kWh/24V lithium manganese oxide battery constructed from 35 Nissan Leaf electric car battery packs. Lots of details about both on UA-cam/WorkingOnExploring or WorkingOnExploring.com. Best to email me directly at steve.hericks@gmail.com
Did y’all ever have problems with water leaks for the indoor unit during cooling mode ?
Installed a similar unit senville 9k btu and during initial test the drains were working fine. Took it home and the drain stopped working properly. It leaks to the left side.
I have never had an interior condensate leak. The drain comes off the IU on the right which is the side I planned for service connections so drops vertically right away. With the LG, if you want to connect service to the left, all piping/wiring runs under the bottom of the IU, inside the bottom cover which could be a more difficult way to drain. There is no separate connection on the opposite side to leak. Because the condensate trays are often very shallow, the IU needs to be pretty level side to side to be sure condensate doesn't run over the tray by tilting away from the drain side. The condensate line can get clogged, especially if your extension is too small. I used 1/2" PEX. The other concern with a small space is the pressure differential between inside and out can be pulling air into the drain line and interfering with the water flowing out. If this is the case, it's ok to make a water trap at the bottom of the drain line with a small vertical 'S' bend.
@@WorkingOnExploring thank you for the insights, I’ll keep on testing see if the shallow drain pan is the issue.
I realized that in describing my LG cable/hose routing on the IU, I may have inferred yours should be similar but I have no way of knowing if it is similar....
Hey guys,
Thank you very much for the video! Very interesting... I'm interested in a Transit style van and wondered if there's more low profile way to do what you've done here with the mini split?
Also, my absolute dream is to have a work bench in the back of my camper to do wood working, whilst on the road, but obviously humidity and temperature has to be reasonably constant. Do you think it's possible? I obviously can't have huge fluctuations in heat which would warp my boards/wood blanks etc...
All the best, and thanks again!
If by low profile, you mean lying the condensing unit on its side, you would need one specifically designed to do so. Oil flows with the refrigerant and since it is always liquid, is just carried along with refrigerant flow. Placing refrigerant coils or compressors in an orientation other than 'upright' (as designed) will trap oil and starve the compressor which results in compressor failure pretty quickly. I believe I have seen a video of a van converter that mounted one under a van but can't remember details. As far as woodworking on the road... Space is a premium in any RV so it may be possible but I cant imagine any thing large and that goes doubly for equipment.... I'd think a trailer would be the way to carry woodworking along with you. I've thought about making a 6x6 expedition truck with a trailer for that purpose but doubt it will rise to a high enough priority to get built.
@@WorkingOnExploring thanks so much for the detailed reply - Sorry let me clarify better - I meant less visible for 'stealth' camping/placement options, although you answered this a bit. The main issue that I was inquiring wasn't space, but temperature and humidity, and how they effect wood - Cracks developing if a high temperature is reached etc... and thus me needing quite consistent humidity and temperature all the time. A (Murphy) bed, work bench and a bit of storage is all I want. No need for Ovens/Toilets/Showers etc for now.
Again, thanks for such a great collection of information and detailed answers =) All the best.
Temp/humidity control has been an issue in several companies during my career so I am familiar with the problem. I think it would be near impossible because it requires a lot of energy that it would be difficult to get without being grid connected. Instead of a van, a small cargo truck may be more reasonable by giving you more space especially if you have long pieces of lumber. With a large lift gate, you could also have a work center parked in the back by the door and roll it onto the lift gate and work on the ground. It would be much more stable than being attached to a van.
@@WorkingOnExploring hmmm that's a shame regarding the power side of things. So even though the hotter it is, the more solar I potentially get to power a mini split - That would still not be enough most likely, even for a Medium Wheel Base high top size van?
And thank you but again, space isn't the point, I build medium to small size Musical Instruments - It's purely the humidity and temperature that I'm not sure if I can solve - Work bench space and stability of the bench etc aren't a problem.
FYI, I managed a 'precision cooling' manufacturer making server room and laboratory A/C equipment for 2.5 years. As far as the A/C unit goes, the biggest issue is probably humidity control. No residential A/C units have it. Four issues are prominent. 1) To dehumidify, an air conditioner must be designed for it (some are and mine is). It super cools the evaporator coil to condense atmospheric moisture needing typically below 40F to do that. Normal A/C evaporator Temps are 50-55F. Super cooling reduces the efficiency quite a bit. 2) Humidification is a feature which is NEVER part of residential A/C. It is the domain of 'precision cooling' which is industrial type. To humidify, they use boiling water evaporators to create steam. They require high power (2x the A/C) and are power intensive for a long time. 3) controls that include humidity management are NEVER part of residential A/C (even though they can be set to dehumidify) and are precision cooling again. 4) doing temp and humidity control in a small space 24/7 would be both difficult to manage (due to poor airflow in a small space) and probably 2-3x more energy intensive than temperature control alone.
Another issue is the room on your roof for solar. Covering your van roof would likely get you around 600w, maybe a bit more. Total production is about 4x that so 2400wh/day. That is if you could always get strong sun and tilted your panels. That might be enough for comfort cooling but will need double or triple for humidity control. The reason for a cargo truck is also to increase your solar 'footprint'. If you could gather a large amount of solar, you need a very large battery in which to store it. I'd guess you need 1500kw+ solar (@$1.25/w), 8-10kwh battery (@ $500/kwh), 3kw inverter ($300), + a custom A/C solution that would likely be $3k IF you could find one. What I'm trying to convey is what you would need to do humidity control is a huge power and cost adder.