Hi how are you guys doin? I got my 38 seer minisplit installed last weekend. It is a 220 volt inovair 9000 btu. It cools the camper down in 10 to 12 minutes and uses 600 watts to cool it down then drops down to 200 watts. The inovair 9000 btu mini goes from 13500 on high down to 2000 btu at the lowest power. Its so amazing staying cool and doing it all with solar. Thanks to ypur video and a few others i was confident with doing the install and had a good idea of which one i needed to install. Thankyou for helping me with conversation before i installed it also. Its running great off the split phase inverter and me and the wife couldnt be happier. Thanks again
@@WorkingOnExploring thanks. Your videos helped me alot and we both are glad you guys that teach on UA-cam do what you do. It's It's great service thats kinda under rated. Thanks again
Anecdotally, I know a person who mounted his unit facing frontward and the fan blades broke/flew off inside the housing. He guessed the combination of 70mph travel plus a headwind was enough rotaion to exceed the integrity of the fan construction. No idea if this is what actually caused it or if somehow some rocks made its way through the grille somehow and shattered the fan.
Not only do the dynamic/centrifugal forces of the wind over speed the fan blades but the permanent magnet motor then becomes a generator. The motor control can only tolerate a small amount of backfeed from this motor generation based on the normal expectation from storm driven wind. I think we can reasonably assume, airflow from vehicle travel will most certainly exceed what would normally be expected from a storm by several times. The result is going to be burnout of the motor control. I don't have as much concern with my sideways mount but I would if either front or rear mounted without a cover.
@@WorkingOnExploring Yes, makes sense. Wanted to add that anecdote for one more reason why it's a bad idea. You mentioned that mounting the unit behind the vehicle resulted in it being in a void of air (can't remember what words you actually used), but wasn't sure if you meant that was good, bad, or inconsequential. Do you think that location is suitable?
@jasonpotts6490 Placing the ODU on the back bumper seems to be the most common location. When not moving, everything should be fine as long as there is 6" or more of space between the back of the ODU and RV. Depending on the shape of the back of the RV (most are pretty square), when in motion, it's most likely there will be a negative pressure area close to the back wall. Since the ODU is trying to draw air IN from this area, it will make the fans job much harder. The negative pressure also causes a lot of turbulence (random air direction) that is also bad. The airflow UNDER the RV is also a problem because it's likely both turbulent and hotter (from the pavement) so is less helpful. All said, probably not a good idea to operate while in motion and a really good idea to cover it so the fan isn't pushed by the airstream when moving but when stationary, all should be fine.
WOE, great explanation of your system. Having seen your first video I wondered about things that you explained here. So, I'm from the cargo trailer conversion to camper (toyhauler) world and knew a mini split was going to be my a/c of choice. Of course no need to tuck it in like you had to do on your truck camper and have a lot of roof real estate for solar panels. I went with a Senville 9K. Its SEER is 19 and its COP heating is 3.11. Its lower cost was also a factor in choosing this particular one and I was also able to commission the unit myself, which saved a few dollars. Safe travels and thank you.
Sounds like you understand the problems and are making informed choices. Senville is a Midea (Chinese) brand and is a decent economical choice. I chose to spend about $150 more for the better technology AND smaller size of the LG (and I believe superior reliability). I think it is worth it although I can't recall the specific numbers on which my decision turned. I was looking at Senville, C&H, Pioneer and one other which are all Midea brands and I assume are identical internally because they are almost dimensionally identical but have some different feature content (WiFi connection option comes to mind).
Thanks. I started off just wanting to use a mini split (low noise and efficiency) and get it mounted down low. I'm pretty happy with the way it's worked out and would do it all the same again.
Overall good video. I have some concerns regarding the heater function of a heat pump. I want to clarify that when the temp gets much lower than 32F, yes - different gases have slightly different performance. the heat pump will become less efficient than a electric resistance heater. It was stated it will always be 2:1 better. basic rules of heat - electric is the least best way to heat. Electric resistance heater - worst Electric heat pump - better than resistance (most of time) Butane - much more efficient than electric, fluctuating price and supply can be inconvenient. propane - stable price and convenient to most locations. natural gas - more stable price and best efficiency and performance Most off gridders use propane for heat as electric heat uses a lot of power. I run electric heat during day when I have the sun, but switch to propane as soon as the sun gets low. A/C runs on sun during day also but gasoline genny at night.
Jose, Several points 1) Heating efficiency of a resistance heater and motor turning electricity into heat is identical because all the input energy becomes heat. If you had a 1kw resistance heater operating in a room beside a motor drawing 1kw, they would consume the same amount of electricity and produce the same amount of heat. Energy used in a heat pump motor is the , same but the mechanical energy is used to move 2x more heat. The compressor is cooled by the refrigerant. All of the electricity becomes heat and is carried away by the refrigerant. The advantage of a heat pump is that the work done in the consumption of the electricity can MOVE heat, giving it the multiplier that makes a heat pump much more efficient (~3x). One of the three units of heat is the electricity 'converted' to heat, the other two units are 'moved' using the work the motor delivers. 2) As the environmental temperature gets lower, the difference between collection temperature and rejection temperature becomes greater, requiring more energy to 'move' heat. This is where the ~3:1 COP goes down. It makes sense, when something gets 'harder', it takes more energy to deliver and you get less for the same energy input. In practice, a heat pump will never be less than twice efficient as a resistance heater. In theory, it can be as low as equal but can never be less. 3) When you begin to compare gaseous fuels to electricity, and immediately talk price, you have a completely different comparison. It is no longer mechanical efficiency, it is cost-effectiveness (not efficiency). It is definitely true that different forms of energy have different prices for the same volume of energy. The two cannot be directly compared. As an example; Assume 1kWh of electricity costs $.10. With it, we can produce 1kWh of heat by running it through a resistance heater or 3kWh of heat running it through a heat pump (in favorable conditions). Using the same $.10 to buy Butane at $1.215/lb (wholesale price in the US today ) yields .08lbs of Butane for $.10. The heating value of butane is 21,640 BTU/lb. So, .08lbs x 21,640BTU/lb / 3.412 BTU/kWh = .507kWh of heat in $.10 of Butane (at wholesale price). Furthermore, combustion of butane in a typical furnace is only 85% efficient (15% goes up the vent stack to carry away combustion byproducts). .507kWh x .85 = .431kWh delivered as heat into an interior space. This rough calculation uses wholesale prices, not retail prices. If I used retail prices, that makes the energy delivered less, likely by a lot. In this case, combusting Butane has the WORST COST-EFFECTIVENESS of the three heating options. Prices are all over the place and you can argue that but it would have to change BY THE BETTER, A WHOLE LOT to beat the cost-effectiveness of a heat pump. most off gridders use gaseous fuels because that is what they can get without investing a whole lot of $ in equipment. It is convenient and simple. This is also why RVs use propane so much. A lot of energy can be stored and transported without expensive equipment. It is a COST-EFFECTIVENESS factor, not a fuel efficiency one. Using fuel in a generator has about 30% mechanical efficiency. It makes no sense to spend lots of $ to by a 300% efficient heat pump and run it on a 30% efficient gen set. Total efficiency is only 90% (.3 x 3) and a lot of money is invested. You're just as well off burning it directly (as in your butane example) I get it. If you were to just burn the fuel for heat, or better yet collect the heat off the generator AND use the electricity to run a heat pump, you could likely improve your 90% to 130% but the effort is tremendous. The big efficiency in using electricity to heat with a heat pump is the lower relative cost because 'leverage' a the heat pump provides and of the higher mechanical efficiency of large thermal power plants. Hope you stayed with me. The 3:1 efficiency gain of heat pumps is huge compared to direct conversion. Heat pumps are the way the world is heading for that reason.
Very nice job and very similar setup to mine, mines in the LP locker (No LP now) and pull air from below and pushes out the side just like you. I've used mine whilst doing 75mph many times and its working well, no issues with the airflow going past the air exit. The power consumption actually slightly improves when im moving. That leads me to believe there's actually a vacuum effect happening that's actually assisting airflow. I used the a 19 seer 12k unit (i think the LG is 19 too?) works so well in my 26'' RV. So quite and efficient
Oh yes and mines an Innovair, from memory its slightly smaller than the LG. I needed that as clearance above is SO tight! behind and too the sides theres plenty of room, loads of airflow
I really like the duct you did from the front cab to the back! that's a great way to get some of that heat out of the front area. I was going to put a removable window circulation vent down the hallway in mine to help pull hot air from the front area of the RV back but seems to be ok so far. Its all very cool fun doing these kind of newer style projects isnt it
It's good to know that you are successful using it while driving.....I have not intended to do that but am reconsidering. I needed it little but when we left last June for the summer it was 116F in Riverside and our first night stop was south of St George Utah where it was 104F at 9pm....the camper was well over a hundred inside from driving 6 hours in 100+ heat....I turned it on turbo mode' and it cooled down enough that we could sleep but that was the first time I considered that I should run it while driving. If it happens again, I will try it. I can produce 3kw from my 24v alternator into my battery (then invert 120v in my 4kw inverter) while I drive so precooling the camper would be easily done.
Innovair is a Midea (Chinese made) brand. I gave up finding a small unit from them after looking through 4-5 of their brands and am very happy with my LG It is a 20 SEER. Higher seer requires a bigger condenser coil so high efficiency and small size run opposite.
Thanks for a very informative video. I live in Australia, and I'd like to know what you thoughts are with regards to corrugations(wash boarded roads) and intense vibrations, based on the assumption these units weren't designed for those types of conditions. Do you think they're robust enough?
I'd rather take this on washboards than a roof mounted.....mostly because I don't think the ROOF would last. This mount is more secure for the condensing unit but the simple sheet metal bracket that supports the evaporator may be the first candidate for reinforcement.....the vibration problem with A/C is mostly about unsupported copper tubing inside the unit but spray foam around it is often all that is needed. I don't think this unit would fare any worse than something specifically made for RV service.
Good question. LG are a fairly good aircon and while I agree with a lot of what WOE has replied here, as an Aussie with a bit of experience with this type of splits on a 9ton Isuzu truck that frequented a lot of corrugated outback Queensland roads, I can tell you, that you will have problems in these conditions and you will have to pay special attention to piping, with at least a pigtail or preferably a flexible section at least and also the compressor area & piping will require extra support, chunks of foam jammed in everywhere can help prevent some vibration issues here, or maybe even some silicone or spray foam in certain areas as these systems can take a bit, but will generally fail prematurely due to vibration effects on these type roads, I had one system lasted about a week and the compressor jumped around so much it tore up all the pipe work. A caravan or bus is better for this, but if ur considering 4x4ing or a Cape trip and Old Telegraph Track or anything like that or corrugated roads in Australia, you will definitely need to have an aircon with some special considerations. Being able to fit and maintain these type system myself made it more feasible for me to be able to do this for a time, but I did end up getting a better system fitted for a small bus eventually with flexible hoses to the rear machine motor compressor to keep my cab cool in the heat while working my machine in the hot middle of nowhere (Dirranbandi 48 oC in Summer). This info may be a bit late for ya mate, but hopefully may be of help to anyone thinking of doing this type of install, I have had many occupations, Refrigeration is one of them, Im not saying you cant do it, but be aware of the potential issues and try to remedy them before you go bush. Cheers
Looking back if you could have found one you liked, would you have opted for a 6k BTU unit instead of the 9k. With good insulation would you imagine that would be enough cooling/heating?
Because the 9k unit is variable speed, it can run from 3kBTU to 10.5kBTU. I felt it was the right size when I bought it and am sure it 8s now that I have been using it. I'm pretty sure 6kBTU would be too small and would likely only be workable for a very insulated, very small van.
@WorkingOnExploring thanks for the reply. Yes it is extremely variable and works great. I was just curious if your typical "duty cycle" had it pumping out less than 6k BTU. If it was and I'm not mistaken, the closer you stay to 100% the more efficient the unit is.
System efficiency is not linear with capacity(compressor speed). For argument sake,I'll try to illustrate: Assume efficiency at 100% capacity is a 10 EER. As system capacity goes down, coil efficiency goes up significantly while compressor efficiency only goes down a little. At around 80% capacity, EER might be around 12. At 70%, capacity, it might be back to 10. As capacity goes below 70%, compressor efficiency loss catches up with and overcomes coil efficiency improvement and overall system efficiency goes down probably to 8 by the time it reaches 30%. You can bet the control algorithm knows what it is and makes use of that operating point in order to achieve the best SEER rating.
Hello Sir, from the UK. I saw your videos last year, and based on information, I'm about to buy a Mitsubishi AY20 mini split for my van. My question is, after driving, does the unit need time to settle from all its bouncing around, or can you switch it on immediately upon becoming stationary. I'm buying this mainly for my dog, for the times I have to go shopping or doing laundry, so ideally I'd like to pull up in a parking lot, switch on the A/C and keep my dog safe. Thanks for the videos.
The issue is one of disturbing the lube oil. For example; When transporting a refrigerator, which is tall, lying it down results in oil flowing out of the compressor to settle in other parts of the system. The compressor has a low spot similar to an engine crank case which may gravity drain to the suction side pipe. If it were to be stood up and started immediately, the compressor would not have oil immediately available and it could run for several minutes before refrigerant was compressed and began to flow enough to move the oil back to the compressor. This phenomena really only happens in a drastic reorientation. I don't think it's likely or possible to happen from driving, even on steep roads. Most compressors can readily operate at 20-30 degrees of tilt. Some RV rooftop A/C units use compressors lying over about 75 degrees (to lower the overall height of the unit), moving the oil sump to a corner of the case where the oil pickup still functions. This is only workable on one side and is clearly designed to work this way so don't assume this means a mini split could tolerate this much tilt (some folks would like to lay the ODU almost fully on its side in a similar manner and put it under the vehicle) but I can't imagine that any amount of off-camber driving that an RV could tolerate would be a problem.
@WorkingOnExploring Thank you Sir. I'll be fitting mine upright, on the side of my vehicle underneath. It's a chassis cab Mercedes Sprinter, so I have 16" spare under the floor line, and 4" will poke into the floor space. I was mainly worried that the oil wouldn't settle after driving, but as long as the outside unit is mounted upright, all seems to be OK. Thank you for the reply.
I like the way your brain works... I was under the impression that these mini split systems needed a minimum lineset length to supply enough refrigerant. Yours seems well short of what I've seen (15' min). Any thoughts?
There is no minimum lineset length for functional reasons. The reason is the manufacturers created one is because they load enough refrigerant into the system for between 15-25' of line.....if you have more than 25', you add more refrigerant. There is a table for what more is in oz. per foot. By the same logic, you could also remove refrigerant if your lineset was shorter. The method for adding refrigerant is to place the refrigerant tank on a scale and open the low side of the manifold gauge set to allow the higher tank pressure to flow (liquid R410a) refrigerant a little bit at a time into the low side (compressor running a stable system). Removing refrigerant is the same but done by opening the high side to flow refrigerant into the tank. GREAT care must be taken to ensure there is enough space in the refrigerant tank to accept the offload. The pros will tell you that you MUST use a refrigerant recovery tank (higher pressure rating than a refrigerant bottle), recovery machine, withdraw from a non-operating system AND have a float shutoff cable between the tank (tank has a float switch to prevent overfilling the tank) and recovery pump. For the little you need to remove, a scale and partial bottle will do.
Steve!!!!!! I sincerely need your input/help. I have a 19 foot travel trailer. I am in the process of rebuilding it(its vintage). I am busting my brain trying to figure out if a 9,000 is sufficient, or if I need to go with a 12??? And where would be the best place to mount the indoor part of the unit(the part that blows the air). So, from the looks, my space isnt vastly much more than what you have.
Jason, Happy to help. Some thoughts; 1) Likely similar 'floor' square footage but you will have about 1.8-2x the cubic footage(?) due to the fact 7' or about 1/3rd of my floor area is only 3' high rather than 7'. This also means your wall area is larger ( with a proportionally larger heat loss/gain). 2) Most important of all, you have, most likely, very poor insulation and very little of it. My walls have 2" of PolyIso (R6.5/inch) @ R13 whereas your wall insulation is likely ~1" (+1/2 to -1/4") and probably fiberglass (R3/inch) giving you a wall rating of ~R3. 3) My windows are double pane of R1.8 whereas yours are likely single pane at ~R.7. Your windows, being old, may also be (air) leaky (I have 7 windows and none open) 4) Not knowing what your wall framing is made from (aluminum or wood - probably wood) or skin (aluminum or fiberglass?) also has a big effect on heat loss. 4) Assuming all the above, I'd guess your heat loss/gain is probably 3-4x mine. 2x at best(?) 5) Not knowing what environmental conditions you will want to be able to operate in? SW desert in the summer or humid gulf coast or you can drive to altitude and only need a little afternoon relief? 6) I have to think that 9kBTU is never going to be very useful in very hot (especially if humid) conditions because I am very pessimistic about your ability to insulate. Even if you replace all your fiberglass with the best insulation you can get (polyIso or XPS) you still won't be able to get more thickness and your windows will still suck. You might be able to cool just half the camper at a time and if that is enough, that's the only way I think 9k could work. 7) Don't assume you need to condition the whole space all at once. If you're not in the bedroom during the day, just close the door and let it get hot. This presumes that once the sun goes down, you can ventilate and circulate to cool off the bedroom. ENOUGH WITH THE PESSIMISM...... Where to mount In my case, I have a big space (kitchen/dining/bath) and a small space (bunk overhead). It's far easier for me to put the IDU in the big space and cause a small circulation to condition the small space than it would be to do the reverse. This also keeps the noise of the IDU away from where I am sleeping so it's more likely to be useful at night if it comes to that (although its extremely quiet). I do have a false ceiling (~14ft long) with circulation ducts (2) to draw air from the bunk and dump it at the IDU to do this. (I don't imagine being in hot and humid so my main need is to cool the living space in late afternoon). In your case, you likely have two similar-sized spaces assuming you have living on one end and sleeping on the other. If you expect to NOT be in the sleeping space in the heat of the day and do expect to be in the living space, putting the IDU in the living space seems more logical. You will need a method of causing deliberate air circulation to occur from end to end to condition the whole space. If you anticipate needing to sleep in hot and humid, the IDU in the sleeping space is about the only way to do that.
I'm working on that but somewhat slowly....I have an update on solar production coming in a couple weeks and will put out a little data on using the heat pump then as well.
Great videos, seems like your experience and knowledge is the perfect match for a mobile mini split install. Any concerns about the flared connections? Did you use any type of sealing compound or anything special? Any thoughts on a section of flexible line set to absorb some vibrations?
1) I have had a flare crack and lost most of my refrigerant. I was on the road so I just stopped by an HVAC place and had them cut it off and recharged. I do have intent to replace the flares with Rectorseal 'Pro-Fit' (SupplyHouse.com) which is a fitting that attaches to a SAE male flare and the other side has a double o-ring push-to-connect socket that accepts an unflared tube. This should provide some vibration resilience. 2) Rectorseal also makes a flare 'sealing gasket' called 'Flaretite' (also available at SupplyHouse.com) but it is expensive for what it is and i like the 'Pro-Fit' better (may allow some line twisting without cracking) 3) There are flex stubs designed for dealing with tight turns in and around connections, again made by Rectorseal and called 'Nokink' (similar products also made by others). These are annealed corrugated stainless tubing inside a braided SS jacket. I have seen a number of van guys use them to swing the ODU on the rear bumper. This is an exceptionally terrible idea, using them as either a vibration isolator of door opening connector. The annealed SS is not designed to be flexed more than once, (on installation), is not designed to be flexed while under pressure and will work harden in any moving environment. There are vibration damping products that appear identical (made by Rectorseal, Sporlan and others that have a long history of use on reciprocating compressors. They only 'appear' identical as they use a spring tempered corrugated stainless that will tolerate vibration. They are straight and need to be installed and used straight. They are not easily flexed or curved as they are designed to only damp vibration (small reciprocal movement. I think a gentile curve of copper tube and Pro-Fit is the best solution.
In vibration; if you assume vehicle caused vibration is a threat, make sure both IDU and ODU are mounted together on the same rigid structure so there is no induced movement between them. In most cases, both are mounted on the RV cabin and as long as the lineset is similarly attached, you're golden. dual scroll compressors are effectively vibration less. Cheaper single scrolls (of Chinese manufacture) do have more vibration.
Theoretically, it could go either way. I initially thought the pressure under the truck would be higher than the sides (a positive) but that the slip stream would be a greater blocking force (a bigger negative) still prevent adequate air flow. Although I haven't actually attempted to measure it (with a manometer), just running the unit seems to work adequately. I'm also concerned about OVER running the fan and having it become a generator. It would also like to measure the fan speed both with and without moving the vehicle but haven't attempted that either. I rarely run it while moving and if I do, it's only about a half hour. Using alternator generated electricity is about $.50/kWh as compared to free for solar generated so as long as I get lots of solar, operating while moving has no advantage.
When I designed it, I didn't think I would be able to run it while driving because the slip stream would prevent discharge from the ODU. I received comments from a number of motorhome users who mounted it in a bag box with the door removed and a hole beneath who reported that it seemed to work fine. With that info, I have run it quite a few times and agree. I'd guess that there is a higher pressure underneath that helps airflow overcome the slipstream.
Do these units need to be level while operating? If I’m parked on the side of a city street with the typical crown of the road surface, will the unit still operate normally? Thanks much!
Level is relative. It's about the ability of the refrigerant stream to return oil to the compressor. Refrigerant will move oil uphill somewhat. Problems occur if there is a large area in the refrigerant channel where oil can lie out of the gas stream. The angle? Just guessing but 20 degree slope might be a good limit (that's pretty steep actually). I would think if your system is installed with proper orientation in the camper, you would have to be at a VERY uncomfortable angle for days to create a problem. Absorption refrigeration is MUCH more sensitive by like a factor of 5 or 8 to slope than compressor refrigeration.
You always want to insulate your refrigerant lines to prevent condensation inside and also in order to not decrease your efficiency. Remember, the metering device or in our case, the electronic expansion valve or EEV is in the outdoor unit. The refrigerant is at its coldest point leaving the EEV and you are losing a great amount of cooling ability. You had the cooling TD mixed up in your video. Typically, we see 70F evaporator entering dry bulb temp and 45-55F supply air dry bulb temperature. With variable speed motors, EEV's, those temps are always fluctuating and can mask problems. I have an Ameristar or Gree 120V 22 SEER 9000btu mini hp mounted inside of my Chevy Express van. I have a Fujitsu 240V 33 SEER 9000 btu mini hp in a small building. Clean your units often, especially with that one over the tire and having those air vanes throwing dirt/dust up inside that compartment. Use water and a little Dawn dish liquid or mild automotive shampoo cleaner on outdoor unit. Wax painted areas after cleaning. Use Nu-Calgon Evaporator Foaming No Rinse Coil Cleaner (Amazon) in an aerosol can on the indoor coil. Use a 1/4" foam prefilter with filter spray to "prefilter" the air. The plastic screen filters are not very good.
My liquid line is insulated to prevent condensation. I'm not sure what I may have said that led you to understand it wasn't. Heat gain on uninsulated lines is only an efficiency loss on the line that runs outside conditioned space. Because the liquid line is all but 6" inside the conditioned space, any heat absorbed by the line is not a loss of efficiency. Although my ODU is located above the wheel, I have rubber louvers below it to deflect road debris. I don't have any issues with the evaporator picking up dust at all. I recently checked it after a year and a half and it appeared as clean as new. Keeping the condenser clean IS important. Typically, return air is around 80-85F, not 70F. If it was 70F, it wouldn't need to be cooled. Typically, temp differential of an efficiently operated unit is 15-20F. Higher coil temp differential is both inefficient and a potential sign of other problems. Supply air as cold as you suggest would require an evaporator so cold as to possibly freeze or condense more moisture than desirable. The function of an expansion device is to maintain constant superheat. EEVs can maintain constant superheat over a broader range of refrigerant delivery than a TXV. I'm not sure what you are thinking about when inferring broad fluctuations. The tools VRF refrigeration have to minimize fluctuation are very powerful and greatly reduce fluctuation over single stage units.
My question to you is and I hope you can help me here. Do you have the lso 90hx V2. Or do you have lso 90hx V1. When you pull up the link oh, it shows two different numbers. Any help would be appreciated thanks I definitely like to get the same one you have. And not order the wrong thing thanks
When I first started looking at this unit, it was the LS090HXV1 but when I went to buy it, over a year later (about 15 months ago) the LS090HXV2 is what was available and is what I bought. At the time, I thought that it was a minor model improvement as there were no spec changes at all (as I recall). In just checking advertisements on ecomfort.com, , I see mistakes in a description for the model 2 that include references to the model 1. My guess is that the 2 is what is available and the 1 has been superseded (and likely all you're likely to actually get.)
You said you have a power monitor to monitor how much power the unit uses but you never talked about your numbers. You only talked about how much it is rated for. Is it using 700 watts for an hour in your van. Or is it using 700 watts for 10 minutes then it shuts off because it cooled off the whole van in ten minutes. It would be nice to know its performance in test conditions.
This video discusses that. ua-cam.com/video/ijk2Z-ebevw/v-deo.htmlsi=IFj_mU0ucy0K2iPG In brief, on a hot day (90F+), the cabin gets in the low 80s by 1PM and we close up and turn on the A/C. It draws around 740W at start for 20-30mim, then drops to about 400W or a bit less for most of the rest of the day. If it's a really hot day, it may rise to 500W in the late afternoon. Variable capacity A/C with a good 'turndown ratio' (the range of variable capacity), never shuts off, it slows down or speeds up to match the room heat load. My 9kBTU LG has a capacity range of 2.7kBTU (30%) to 10.4kBTU (115%),which correlates to 280W to 840W.
Performance is relative to heat load. Heat load is the rate at which heat enters the interior. I have 2.4" thick walls with 2" of polyiso insulation (R13) and 7 mostly large fixed double pane windows (R1.7). I stay parked in full sun (increasing my heat load) to allow my 950W of solar (now 1140W) to bring in power to support the A/C operation. Parking in shade would obviously decrease heat load and also drastically decrease solar power collection. The wall/window insulation of your vehicle and exposure you choose will obviously affect the power consumption/energy balance problem.
@WorkingOnExploring thanks for clarification. I have a 2000 wat hour battery. And 950 watts of solar. I think im gona double my battery to 4000 wat hours so i can power that ac unit for a bit longer.
I recommend that you alter the way you think about operating your heavy consumers of power. Think of it as being operated from a generation source (solar/shore/generator) and that your battery is just there to make up the difference when TIMING of generation does not coincide with TIMING of demand. If you think in terms of running a high power device from stored power, the size of the stored power becomes very large which is both expensive and heavy. If you find yourself thinking you need more storage, maybe you'd be better off with adding more generation first. It's often easier and less expensive to add solar capacity than battery. If you want to USE electrical power, that power has to be GENERATED. Having the ability to store more only allows you to change WHEN the power is used, not how much power is available. While you can store more, you also create a bigger battery debt when used so the generation problem comes right back. I want to run my A/C for 8+ hours per day EVERY DAY, which consumes 5kWh + 2kWH for base loads. If I don't also generate that much power, I can't do it again the next day or the day thereafter. If you just add enough battery to last a day, you can make it through the first day, you won't make it through the second and have even less for the third.
@WorkingOnExploring thank you for the advice. I will be running this ac unit from an ecoflow delta max 2. This sytem can only handle 1000 watts of solar input. And is expandable to 4000 watt hours of capacity. I will also be able to charge the batteries from my vans altinator. My van is spray foamed insulated and is very tiny with barly any windows. So i think this ac unit will cool my van down pretty fast.
Hi :0) does it draw 732w constantly when it’s on cool and 875w on heat? Or does the wattage tend to go lower? Thank you for taking the time to make these videos :0)
Those numbers are what it draws when it runs at 100% capacity. Because it runs between 30%-120% as it needs to to meet the temperature demand, it never runs for long at any one capacity. I have a power meter on it so I can see what it draws and it is most often between 400-550w...kind of a loose number...the key is it is most efficient when it runs full time and operates within it's capacity range because starting and stopping creates losses. It will be different for every environmental condition and RV.
Thanks so much for your in-depth description of how everything works!! It’s really helpful to the Rv community concerning the upgrading of our systems. Mini splits are definitely the way to go🦋🎉
I just did an in depth analysis of RV air condition comparing 6 different units ....it may go live on our channel tonight or tomorrow.....the writeup on it is already available on workinginexploring.com/techdocs
Hi how are you guys doin? I got my 38 seer minisplit installed last weekend. It is a 220 volt inovair 9000 btu. It cools the camper down in 10 to 12 minutes and uses 600 watts to cool it down then drops down to 200 watts. The inovair 9000 btu mini goes from 13500 on high down to 2000 btu at the lowest power. Its so amazing staying cool and doing it all with solar. Thanks to ypur video and a few others i was confident with doing the install and had a good idea of which one i needed to install. Thankyou for helping me with conversation before i installed it also. Its running great off the split phase inverter and me and the wife couldnt be happier. Thanks again
Glad it worked out.
@@WorkingOnExploring thanks. Your videos helped me alot and we both are glad you guys that teach on UA-cam do what you do. It's It's great service thats kinda under rated. Thanks again
Anecdotally, I know a person who mounted his unit facing frontward and the fan blades broke/flew off inside the housing. He guessed the combination of 70mph travel plus a headwind was enough rotaion to exceed the integrity of the fan construction. No idea if this is what actually caused it or if somehow some rocks made its way through the grille somehow and shattered the fan.
Not only do the dynamic/centrifugal forces of the wind over speed the fan blades but the permanent magnet motor then becomes a generator. The motor control can only tolerate a small amount of backfeed from this motor generation based on the normal expectation from storm driven wind. I think we can reasonably assume, airflow from vehicle travel will most certainly exceed what would normally be expected from a storm by several times. The result is going to be burnout of the motor control. I don't have as much concern with my sideways mount but I would if either front or rear mounted without a cover.
@@WorkingOnExploring Yes, makes sense. Wanted to add that anecdote for one more reason why it's a bad idea. You mentioned that mounting the unit behind the vehicle resulted in it being in a void of air (can't remember what words you actually used), but wasn't sure if you meant that was good, bad, or inconsequential. Do you think that location is suitable?
@jasonpotts6490 Placing the ODU on the back bumper seems to be the most common location. When not moving, everything should be fine as long as there is 6" or more of space between the back of the ODU and RV. Depending on the shape of the back of the RV (most are pretty square), when in motion, it's most likely there will be a negative pressure area close to the back wall. Since the ODU is trying to draw air IN from this area, it will make the fans job much harder. The negative pressure also causes a lot of turbulence (random air direction) that is also bad. The airflow UNDER the RV is also a problem because it's likely both turbulent and hotter (from the pavement) so is less helpful. All said, probably not a good idea to operate while in motion and a really good idea to cover it so the fan isn't pushed by the airstream when moving but when stationary, all should be fine.
WOE, great explanation of your system. Having seen your first video I wondered about things that you explained here. So, I'm from the cargo trailer conversion to camper (toyhauler) world and knew a mini split was going to be my a/c of choice. Of course no need to tuck it in like you had to do on your truck camper and have a lot of roof real estate for solar panels. I went with a Senville 9K. Its SEER is 19 and its COP heating is 3.11. Its lower cost was also a factor in choosing this particular one and I was also able to commission the unit myself, which saved a few dollars. Safe travels and thank you.
Sounds like you understand the problems and are making informed choices. Senville is a Midea (Chinese) brand and is a decent economical choice. I chose to spend about $150 more for the better technology AND smaller size of the LG (and I believe superior reliability). I think it is worth it although I can't recall the specific numbers on which my decision turned. I was looking at Senville, C&H, Pioneer and one other which are all Midea brands and I assume are identical internally because they are almost dimensionally identical but have some different feature content (WiFi connection option comes to mind).
great video, I think that would be an ideal spot for it in an arid desert situation as well (protected from the sun).
Thanks. I started off just wanting to use a mini split (low noise and efficiency) and get it mounted down low. I'm pretty happy with the way it's worked out and would do it all the same again.
Succinct intro to the efficiencies of Mini Split Systems applied in RVs in
Overall good video. I have some concerns regarding the heater function of a heat pump.
I want to clarify that when the temp gets much lower than 32F,
yes - different gases have slightly different performance.
the heat pump will become less efficient than a electric resistance heater.
It was stated it will always be 2:1 better.
basic rules of heat -
electric is the least best way to heat.
Electric resistance heater - worst
Electric heat pump - better than resistance (most of time)
Butane - much more efficient than electric, fluctuating price and supply can be inconvenient.
propane - stable price and convenient to most locations.
natural gas - more stable price and best efficiency and performance
Most off gridders use propane for heat as electric heat uses a lot of power.
I run electric heat during day when I have the sun, but switch to propane as soon as the sun gets low. A/C runs on sun during day also but gasoline genny at night.
Jose,
Several points
1) Heating efficiency of a resistance heater and motor turning electricity into heat is identical because all the input energy becomes heat. If you had a 1kw resistance heater operating in a room beside a motor drawing 1kw, they would consume the same amount of electricity and produce the same amount of heat. Energy used in a heat pump motor is the , same but the mechanical energy is used to move 2x more heat. The compressor is cooled by the refrigerant. All of the electricity becomes heat and is carried away by the refrigerant. The advantage of a heat pump is that the work done in the consumption of the electricity can MOVE heat, giving it the multiplier that makes a heat pump much more efficient (~3x). One of the three units of heat is the electricity 'converted' to heat, the other two units are 'moved' using the work the motor delivers.
2) As the environmental temperature gets lower, the difference between collection temperature and rejection temperature becomes greater, requiring more energy to 'move' heat. This is where the ~3:1 COP goes down. It makes sense, when something gets 'harder', it takes more energy to deliver and you get less for the same energy input. In practice, a heat pump will never be less than twice efficient as a resistance heater. In theory, it can be as low as equal but can never be less.
3) When you begin to compare gaseous fuels to electricity, and immediately talk price, you have a completely different comparison. It is no longer mechanical efficiency, it is cost-effectiveness (not efficiency). It is definitely true that different forms of energy have different prices for the same volume of energy. The two cannot be directly compared.
As an example; Assume 1kWh of electricity costs $.10. With it, we can produce 1kWh of heat by running it through a resistance heater or 3kWh of heat running it through a heat pump (in favorable conditions).
Using the same $.10 to buy Butane at $1.215/lb (wholesale price in the US today ) yields .08lbs of Butane for $.10. The heating value of butane is 21,640 BTU/lb. So, .08lbs x 21,640BTU/lb / 3.412 BTU/kWh = .507kWh of heat in $.10 of Butane (at wholesale price). Furthermore, combustion of butane in a typical furnace is only 85% efficient (15% goes up the vent stack to carry away combustion byproducts). .507kWh x .85 = .431kWh delivered as heat into an interior space.
This rough calculation uses wholesale prices, not retail prices. If I used retail prices, that makes the energy delivered less, likely by a lot. In this case, combusting Butane has the WORST COST-EFFECTIVENESS of the three heating options. Prices are all over the place and you can argue that but it would have to change BY THE BETTER, A WHOLE LOT to beat the cost-effectiveness of a heat pump.
most off gridders use gaseous fuels because that is what they can get without investing a whole lot of $ in equipment. It is convenient and simple. This is also why RVs use propane so much. A lot of energy can be stored and transported without expensive equipment. It is a COST-EFFECTIVENESS factor, not a fuel efficiency one.
Using fuel in a generator has about 30% mechanical efficiency. It makes no sense to spend lots of $ to by a 300% efficient heat pump and run it on a 30% efficient gen set. Total efficiency is only 90% (.3 x 3) and a lot of money is invested. You're just as well off burning it directly (as in your butane example) I get it. If you were to just burn the fuel for heat, or better yet collect the heat off the generator AND use the electricity to run a heat pump, you could likely improve your 90% to 130% but the effort is tremendous.
The big efficiency in using electricity to heat with a heat pump is the lower relative cost because 'leverage' a the heat pump provides and of the higher mechanical efficiency of large thermal power plants.
Hope you stayed with me. The 3:1 efficiency gain of heat pumps is huge compared to direct conversion. Heat pumps are the way the world is heading for that reason.
Very nice job and very similar setup to mine, mines in the LP locker (No LP now) and pull air from below and pushes out the side just like you.
I've used mine whilst doing 75mph many times and its working well, no issues with the airflow going past the air exit. The power consumption actually slightly improves when im moving. That leads me to believe there's actually a vacuum effect happening that's actually assisting airflow. I used the a 19 seer 12k unit (i think the LG is 19 too?) works so well in my 26'' RV.
So quite and efficient
Oh yes and mines an Innovair, from memory its slightly smaller than the LG. I needed that as clearance above is SO tight! behind and too the sides theres plenty of room, loads of airflow
My evaporator sits a little lower so has great airflow, yours being a smaller RV im sure its more than enough for your space though
I really like the duct you did from the front cab to the back! that's a great way to get some of that heat out of the front area. I was going to put a removable window circulation vent down the hallway in mine to help pull hot air from the front area of the RV back but seems to be ok so far. Its all very cool fun doing these kind of newer style projects isnt it
It's good to know that you are successful using it while driving.....I have not intended to do that but am reconsidering. I needed it little but when we left last June for the summer it was 116F in Riverside and our first night stop was south of St George Utah where it was 104F at 9pm....the camper was well over a hundred inside from driving 6 hours in 100+ heat....I turned it on turbo mode' and it cooled down enough that we could sleep but that was the first time I considered that I should run it while driving. If it happens again, I will try it. I can produce 3kw from my 24v alternator into my battery (then invert 120v in my 4kw inverter) while I drive so precooling the camper would be easily done.
Innovair is a Midea (Chinese made) brand. I gave up finding a small unit from them after looking through 4-5 of their brands and am very happy with my LG
It is a 20 SEER. Higher seer requires a bigger condenser coil so high efficiency and small size run opposite.
Thanks for a very informative video. I live in Australia, and I'd like to know what you thoughts are with regards to corrugations(wash boarded roads) and intense vibrations, based on the assumption these units weren't designed for those types of conditions. Do you think they're robust enough?
I'd rather take this on washboards than a roof mounted.....mostly because I don't think the ROOF would last. This mount is more secure for the condensing unit but the simple sheet metal bracket that supports the evaporator may be the first candidate for reinforcement.....the vibration problem with A/C is mostly about unsupported copper tubing inside the unit but spray foam around it is often all that is needed. I don't think this unit would fare any worse than something specifically made for RV service.
Good question. LG are a fairly good aircon and while I agree with a lot of what WOE has replied here, as an Aussie with a bit of experience with this type of splits on a 9ton Isuzu truck that frequented a lot of corrugated outback Queensland roads, I can tell you, that you will have problems in these conditions and you will have to pay special attention to piping, with at least a pigtail or preferably a flexible section at least and also the compressor area & piping will require extra support, chunks of foam jammed in everywhere can help prevent some vibration issues here, or maybe even some silicone or spray foam in certain areas as these systems can take a bit, but will generally fail prematurely due to vibration effects on these type roads, I had one system lasted about a week and the compressor jumped around so much it tore up all the pipe work.
A caravan or bus is better for this, but if ur considering 4x4ing or a Cape trip and Old Telegraph Track or anything like that or corrugated roads in Australia, you will definitely need to have an aircon with some special considerations.
Being able to fit and maintain these type system myself made it more feasible for me to be able to do this for a time, but I did end up getting a better system fitted for a small bus eventually with flexible hoses to the rear machine motor compressor to keep my cab cool in the heat while working my machine in the hot middle of nowhere (Dirranbandi 48 oC in Summer).
This info may be a bit late for ya mate, but hopefully may be of help to anyone thinking of doing this type of install, I have had many occupations, Refrigeration is one of them, Im not saying you cant do it, but be aware of the potential issues and try to remedy them before you go bush. Cheers
Looking back if you could have found one you liked, would you have opted for a 6k BTU unit instead of the 9k. With good insulation would you imagine that would be enough cooling/heating?
Because the 9k unit is variable speed, it can run from 3kBTU to 10.5kBTU. I felt it was the right size when I bought it and am sure it 8s now that I have been using it. I'm pretty sure 6kBTU would be too small and would likely only be workable for a very insulated, very small van.
@WorkingOnExploring thanks for the reply. Yes it is extremely variable and works great. I was just curious if your typical "duty cycle" had it pumping out less than 6k BTU. If it was and I'm not mistaken, the closer you stay to 100% the more efficient the unit is.
System efficiency is not linear with capacity(compressor speed). For argument sake,I'll try to illustrate: Assume efficiency at 100% capacity is a 10 EER. As system capacity goes down, coil efficiency goes up significantly while compressor efficiency only goes down a little. At around 80% capacity, EER might be around 12. At 70%, capacity, it might be back to 10. As capacity goes below 70%, compressor efficiency loss catches up with and overcomes coil efficiency improvement and overall system efficiency goes down probably to 8 by the time it reaches 30%.
You can bet the control algorithm knows what it is and makes use of that operating point in order to achieve the best SEER rating.
Hello Sir, from the UK.
I saw your videos last year, and based on information, I'm about to buy a Mitsubishi AY20 mini split for my van. My question is, after driving, does the unit need time to settle from all its bouncing around, or can you switch it on immediately upon becoming stationary. I'm buying this mainly for my dog, for the times I have to go shopping or doing laundry, so ideally I'd like to pull up in a parking lot, switch on the A/C and keep my dog safe. Thanks for the videos.
The issue is one of disturbing the lube oil. For example; When transporting a refrigerator, which is tall, lying it down results in oil flowing out of the compressor to settle in other parts of the system. The compressor has a low spot similar to an engine crank case which may gravity drain to the suction side pipe. If it were to be stood up and started immediately, the compressor would not have oil immediately available and it could run for several minutes before refrigerant was compressed and began to flow enough to move the oil back to the compressor. This phenomena really only happens in a drastic reorientation. I don't think it's likely or possible to happen from driving, even on steep roads. Most compressors can readily operate at 20-30 degrees of tilt. Some RV rooftop A/C units use compressors lying over about 75 degrees (to lower the overall height of the unit), moving the oil sump to a corner of the case where the oil pickup still functions. This is only workable on one side and is clearly designed to work this way so don't assume this means a mini split could tolerate this much tilt (some folks would like to lay the ODU almost fully on its side in a similar manner and put it under the vehicle) but I can't imagine that any amount of off-camber driving that an RV could tolerate would be a problem.
@WorkingOnExploring Thank you Sir. I'll be fitting mine upright, on the side of my vehicle underneath. It's a chassis cab Mercedes Sprinter, so I have 16" spare under the floor line, and 4" will poke into the floor space. I was mainly worried that the oil wouldn't settle after driving, but as long as the outside unit is mounted upright, all seems to be OK. Thank you for the reply.
I like the way your brain works... I was under the impression that these mini split systems needed a minimum lineset length to supply enough refrigerant. Yours seems well short of what I've seen (15' min). Any thoughts?
There is no minimum lineset length for functional reasons. The reason is the manufacturers created one is because they load enough refrigerant into the system for between 15-25' of line.....if you have more than 25', you add more refrigerant. There is a table for what more is in oz. per foot. By the same logic, you could also remove refrigerant if your lineset was shorter. The method for adding refrigerant is to place the refrigerant tank on a scale and open the low side of the manifold gauge set to allow the higher tank pressure to flow (liquid R410a) refrigerant a little bit at a time into the low side (compressor running a stable system). Removing refrigerant is the same but done by opening the high side to flow refrigerant into the tank. GREAT care must be taken to ensure there is enough space in the refrigerant tank to accept the offload. The pros will tell you that you MUST use a refrigerant recovery tank (higher pressure rating than a refrigerant bottle), recovery machine, withdraw from a non-operating system AND have a float shutoff cable between the tank (tank has a float switch to prevent overfilling the tank) and recovery pump. For the little you need to remove, a scale and partial bottle will do.
Steve!!!!!! I sincerely need your input/help. I have a 19 foot travel trailer. I am in the process of rebuilding it(its vintage). I am busting my brain trying to figure out if a 9,000 is sufficient, or if I need to go with a 12??? And where would be the best place to mount the indoor part of the unit(the part that blows the air). So, from the looks, my space isnt vastly much more than what you have.
Jason,
Happy to help. Some thoughts;
1) Likely similar 'floor' square footage but you will have about 1.8-2x the cubic footage(?) due to the fact 7' or about 1/3rd of my floor area is only 3' high rather than 7'. This also means your wall area is larger ( with a proportionally larger heat loss/gain).
2) Most important of all, you have, most likely, very poor insulation and very little of it. My walls have 2" of PolyIso (R6.5/inch) @ R13 whereas your wall insulation is likely ~1" (+1/2 to -1/4") and probably fiberglass (R3/inch) giving you a wall rating of ~R3.
3) My windows are double pane of R1.8 whereas yours are likely single pane at ~R.7. Your windows, being old, may also be (air) leaky (I have 7 windows and none open)
4) Not knowing what your wall framing is made from (aluminum or wood - probably wood) or skin (aluminum or fiberglass?) also has a big effect on heat loss.
4) Assuming all the above, I'd guess your heat loss/gain is probably 3-4x mine. 2x at best(?)
5) Not knowing what environmental conditions you will want to be able to operate in? SW desert in the summer or humid gulf coast or you can drive to altitude and only need a little afternoon relief?
6) I have to think that 9kBTU is never going to be very useful in very hot (especially if humid) conditions because I am very pessimistic about your ability to insulate. Even if you replace all your fiberglass with the best insulation you can get (polyIso or XPS) you still won't be able to get more thickness and your windows will still suck. You might be able to cool just half the camper at a time and if that is enough, that's the only way I think 9k could work.
7) Don't assume you need to condition the whole space all at once. If you're not in the bedroom during the day, just close the door and let it get hot. This presumes that once the sun goes down, you can ventilate and circulate to cool off the bedroom.
ENOUGH WITH THE PESSIMISM......
Where to mount
In my case, I have a big space (kitchen/dining/bath) and a small space (bunk overhead). It's far easier for me to put the IDU in the big space and cause a small circulation to condition the small space than it would be to do the reverse. This also keeps the noise of the IDU away from where I am sleeping so it's more likely to be useful at night if it comes to that (although its extremely quiet). I do have a false ceiling (~14ft long) with circulation ducts (2) to draw air from the bunk and dump it at the IDU to do this. (I don't imagine being in hot and humid so my main need is to cool the living space in late afternoon). In your case, you likely have two similar-sized spaces assuming you have living on one end and sleeping on the other. If you expect to NOT be in the sleeping space in the heat of the day and do expect to be in the living space, putting the IDU in the living space seems more logical. You will need a method of causing deliberate air circulation to occur from end to end to condition the whole space. If you anticipate needing to sleep in hot and humid, the IDU in the sleeping space is about the only way to do that.
Great video, very informative. It would be great if you showed real world energy consumption for this unit.
I'm working on that but somewhat slowly....I have an update on solar production coming in a couple weeks and will put out a little data on using the heat pump then as well.
Great videos, seems like your experience and knowledge is the perfect match for a mobile mini split install. Any concerns about the flared connections? Did you use any type of sealing compound or anything special? Any thoughts on a section of flexible line set to absorb some vibrations?
1) I have had a flare crack and lost most of my refrigerant. I was on the road so I just stopped by an HVAC place and had them cut it off and recharged. I do have intent to replace the flares with Rectorseal 'Pro-Fit' (SupplyHouse.com) which is a fitting that attaches to a SAE male flare and the other side has a double o-ring push-to-connect socket that accepts an unflared tube. This should provide some vibration resilience.
2) Rectorseal also makes a flare 'sealing gasket' called 'Flaretite' (also available at SupplyHouse.com) but it is expensive for what it is and i like the 'Pro-Fit' better (may allow some line twisting without cracking)
3) There are flex stubs designed for dealing with tight turns in and around connections, again made by Rectorseal and called 'Nokink' (similar products also made by others). These are annealed corrugated stainless tubing inside a braided SS jacket. I have seen a number of van guys use them to swing the ODU on the rear bumper. This is an exceptionally terrible idea, using them as either a vibration isolator of door opening connector. The annealed SS is not designed to be flexed more than once, (on installation), is not designed to be flexed while under pressure and will work harden in any moving environment. There are vibration damping products that appear identical (made by Rectorseal, Sporlan and others that have a long history of use on reciprocating compressors. They only 'appear' identical as they use a spring tempered corrugated stainless that will tolerate vibration. They are straight and need to be installed and used straight. They are not easily flexed or curved as they are designed to only damp vibration (small reciprocal movement. I think a gentile curve of copper tube and Pro-Fit is the best solution.
In vibration; if you assume vehicle caused vibration is a threat, make sure both IDU and ODU are mounted together on the same rigid structure so there is no induced movement between them. In most cases, both are mounted on the RV cabin and as long as the lineset is similarly attached, you're golden. dual scroll compressors are effectively vibration less. Cheaper single scrolls (of Chinese manufacture) do have more vibration.
@@WorkingOnExploring thank you very much - this information is invaluable!
And I forgot...'Nylog' is a semi-liquid joint sealant for refrigerant connections. It has the consistency of
i think the slipstream will reduce the static pressure around the vehicle and suck out the warm air. even without the fan running. is that possible?
Theoretically, it could go either way. I initially thought the pressure under the truck would be higher than the sides (a positive) but that the slip stream would be a greater blocking force (a bigger negative) still prevent adequate air flow. Although I haven't actually attempted to measure it (with a manometer), just running the unit seems to work adequately. I'm also concerned about OVER running the fan and having it become a generator. It would also like to measure the fan speed both with and without moving the vehicle but haven't attempted that either. I rarely run it while moving and if I do, it's only about a half hour. Using alternator generated electricity is about $.50/kWh as compared to free for solar generated so as long as I get lots of solar, operating while moving has no advantage.
If side mounted condenser, will heat pump also not work due to wind resistance?
When I designed it, I didn't think I would be able to run it while driving because the slip stream would prevent discharge from the ODU. I received comments from a number of motorhome users who mounted it in a bag box with the door removed and a hole beneath who reported that it seemed to work fine. With that info, I have run it quite a few times and agree. I'd guess that there is a higher pressure underneath that helps airflow overcome the slipstream.
Do these units need to be level while operating? If I’m parked on the side of a city street with the typical crown of the road surface, will the unit still operate normally? Thanks much!
Level is relative. It's about the ability of the refrigerant stream to return oil to the compressor. Refrigerant will move oil uphill somewhat. Problems occur if there is a large area in the refrigerant channel where oil can lie out of the gas stream. The angle? Just guessing but 20 degree slope might be a good limit (that's pretty steep actually). I would think if your system is installed with proper orientation in the camper, you would have to be at a VERY uncomfortable angle for days to create a problem. Absorption refrigeration is MUCH more sensitive by like a factor of 5 or 8 to slope than compressor refrigeration.
You always want to insulate your refrigerant lines to prevent condensation inside and also in order to not decrease your efficiency. Remember, the metering device or in our case, the electronic expansion valve or EEV is in the outdoor unit. The refrigerant is at its coldest point leaving the EEV and you are losing a great amount of cooling ability. You had the cooling TD mixed up in your video. Typically, we see 70F evaporator entering dry bulb temp and 45-55F supply air dry bulb temperature. With variable speed motors, EEV's, those temps are always fluctuating and can mask problems. I have an Ameristar or Gree 120V 22 SEER 9000btu mini hp mounted inside of my Chevy Express van. I have a Fujitsu 240V 33 SEER 9000 btu mini hp in a small building. Clean your units often, especially with that one over the tire and having those air vanes throwing dirt/dust up inside that compartment. Use water and a little Dawn dish liquid or mild automotive shampoo cleaner on outdoor unit. Wax painted areas after cleaning. Use Nu-Calgon Evaporator Foaming No Rinse Coil Cleaner (Amazon) in an aerosol can on the indoor coil. Use a 1/4" foam prefilter with filter spray to "prefilter" the air. The plastic screen filters are not very good.
My liquid line is insulated to prevent condensation. I'm not sure what I may have said that led you to understand it wasn't. Heat gain on uninsulated lines is only an efficiency loss on the line that runs outside conditioned space. Because the liquid line is all but 6" inside the conditioned space, any heat absorbed by the line is not a loss of efficiency. Although my ODU is located above the wheel, I have rubber louvers below it to deflect road debris. I don't have any issues with the evaporator picking up dust at all. I recently checked it after a year and a half and it appeared as clean as new. Keeping the condenser clean IS important. Typically, return air is around 80-85F, not 70F. If it was 70F, it wouldn't need to be cooled. Typically, temp differential of an efficiently operated unit is 15-20F. Higher coil temp differential is both inefficient and a potential sign of other problems. Supply air as cold as you suggest would require an evaporator so cold as to possibly freeze or condense more moisture than desirable. The function of an expansion device is to maintain constant superheat. EEVs can maintain constant superheat over a broader range of refrigerant delivery than a TXV. I'm not sure what you are thinking about when inferring broad fluctuations. The tools VRF refrigeration have to minimize fluctuation are very powerful and greatly reduce fluctuation over single stage units.
My question to you is and I hope you can help me here. Do you have the lso 90hx V2. Or do you have lso 90hx V1. When you pull up the link oh, it shows two different numbers. Any help would be appreciated thanks I definitely like to get the same one you have. And not order the wrong thing thanks
When I first started looking at this unit, it was the LS090HXV1 but when I went to buy it, over a year later (about 15 months ago) the LS090HXV2 is what was available and is what I bought. At the time, I thought that it was a minor model improvement as there were no spec changes at all (as I recall). In just checking advertisements on ecomfort.com, , I see mistakes in a description for the model 2 that include references to the model 1. My guess is that the 2 is what is available and the 1 has been superseded (and likely all you're likely to actually get.)
@@WorkingOnExploring thanks for the reply I appreciate it
You said you have a power monitor to monitor how much power the unit uses but you never talked about your numbers. You only talked about how much it is rated for. Is it using 700 watts for an hour in your van. Or is it using 700 watts for 10 minutes then it shuts off because it cooled off the whole van in ten minutes. It would be nice to know its performance in test conditions.
This video discusses that. ua-cam.com/video/ijk2Z-ebevw/v-deo.htmlsi=IFj_mU0ucy0K2iPG
In brief, on a hot day (90F+), the cabin gets in the low 80s by 1PM and we close up and turn on the A/C. It draws around 740W at start for 20-30mim, then drops to about 400W or a bit less for most of the rest of the day. If it's a really hot day, it may rise to 500W in the late afternoon. Variable capacity A/C with a good 'turndown ratio' (the range of variable capacity), never shuts off, it slows down or speeds up to match the room heat load. My 9kBTU LG has a capacity range of 2.7kBTU (30%) to 10.4kBTU (115%),which correlates to 280W to 840W.
Performance is relative to heat load. Heat load is the rate at which heat enters the interior. I have 2.4" thick walls with 2" of polyiso insulation (R13) and 7 mostly large fixed double pane windows (R1.7). I stay parked in full sun (increasing my heat load) to allow my 950W of solar (now 1140W) to bring in power to support the A/C operation. Parking in shade would obviously decrease heat load and also drastically decrease solar power collection. The wall/window insulation of your vehicle and exposure you choose will obviously affect the power consumption/energy balance problem.
@WorkingOnExploring thanks for clarification. I have a 2000 wat hour battery. And 950 watts of solar. I think im gona double my battery to 4000 wat hours so i can power that ac unit for a bit longer.
I recommend that you alter the way you think about operating your heavy consumers of power. Think of it as being operated from a generation source (solar/shore/generator) and that your battery is just there to make up the difference when TIMING of generation does not coincide with TIMING of demand. If you think in terms of running a high power device from stored power, the size of the stored power becomes very large which is both expensive and heavy. If you find yourself thinking you need more storage, maybe you'd be better off with adding more generation first. It's often easier and less expensive to add solar capacity than battery. If you want to USE electrical power, that power has to be GENERATED. Having the ability to store more only allows you to change WHEN the power is used, not how much power is available. While you can store more, you also create a bigger battery debt when used so the generation problem comes right back.
I want to run my A/C for 8+ hours per day EVERY DAY, which consumes 5kWh + 2kWH for base loads. If I don't also generate that much power, I can't do it again the next day or the day thereafter. If you just add enough battery to last a day, you can make it through the first day, you won't make it through the second and have even less for the third.
@WorkingOnExploring thank you for the advice. I will be running this ac unit from an ecoflow delta max 2. This sytem can only handle 1000 watts of solar input. And is expandable to 4000 watt hours of capacity. I will also be able to charge the batteries from my vans altinator. My van is spray foamed insulated and is very tiny with barly any windows. So i think this ac unit will cool my van down pretty fast.
Hi :0) does it draw 732w constantly when it’s on cool and 875w on heat? Or does the wattage tend to go lower? Thank you for taking the time to make these videos :0)
Those numbers are what it draws when it runs at 100% capacity. Because it runs between 30%-120% as it needs to to meet the temperature demand, it never runs for long at any one capacity. I have a power meter on it so I can see what it draws and it is most often between 400-550w...kind of a loose number...the key is it is most efficient when it runs full time and operates within it's capacity range because starting and stopping creates losses. It will be different for every environmental condition and RV.
Thanks so much for your in-depth description of how everything works!! It’s really helpful to the Rv community concerning the upgrading of our systems. Mini splits are definitely the way to go🦋🎉
I just did an in depth analysis of RV air condition comparing 6 different units ....it may go live on our channel tonight or tomorrow.....the writeup on it is already available on workinginexploring.com/techdocs