Alright. I think maybe there was a failure on my part to accurately explain something. My Ultra team is something I acknowledge in the video itself is suboptimal. Me struggling with them because of that is why I dropped the line "it's hard to talk about difficulty in these games." Clearly, as the comments go to show, everyone had a completely different experience with the Ultra games. I've had comments saying the games are easy. I did what I always do with these videos: examine the teams, decide whether I like them. You'll notice that I didn't ACTUALLY complain about Guzma or Plumeria. I simply said I died a lot. The fights I DID complain about are the ones that felt overturned, like the totem bouts which can devolve into 2v1s, or Ultra Necrozma who is built like a freight train. I did so NOT because I struggled on them. In fact, I cheesed Ultra Necrozma in the video and still stated I'm not a fan of its difficulty philosophy. I compared Araquanid to Wishiwashi for a reason, too. I did struggle with Wishiwashi quite a lot, using a much better team. But I enjoyed how the fight was designed MUCH more than Araquanid. That was the point of the section, I think USUM have really boring difficulty design. I thought I explained that decently enough, but maybe something was lost there while I was making it. Either way, felt like I needed to clear that up. Then again, maybe I'm just falling for 'git gud' bait.
I, for one, appreciate the fact that you decided to rep Stormlight! Your picks were pretty great, too! In fact, I'm not sure if you've finished Rhythm of War by the time you uploaded this, but by the time you get to Wit's story in that book, that connection between Bagon's quest to become a dragon and Kaladin will hit all that much harder. Anyway, life before death, Radiant
When I was a kid playing Pokemon Yellow for the first time, I skipped through text and didn't know how to use Pokeballs. I beat Brock a month later with an overleveled Pikachu before learning I can catch more. At the time I just thought I was meant to trek the world at a slow pace. All that to say, difficulty in Pokémon is going to entirely rely on the competency of the player.
As somebody who adores Gen 7, the Ultra games' changes to Lusamine are one of the most baffling decisions in any Nintendo game. The confrontation between her and Lillie in Ultra Space is one of my favorite moments in any Nintendo game, and the Ultra games just... don't have it?
It's not just Lusamine's character assassination but taking away all of Lillie's moments is what kills USUM for me. They didn't even let her step one foot on Exeggutor Island in that game >_>
If they were going to change Lusamine, they should’ve gone all the way and changed up the story. Like have Lusamine not act antagonistic and instead be a workaholic, sending Lillie and Gladion off with Nebby and Type: Null to do the Island Trial as to give herself more time to work on defending Alola from the Ultra Beasts who could perhaps act as bosses that you’d team up with the Totem Pokemon to defeat.
I adored Gen 7 too and love both SM and the ultra games but yea I don’t get why lusamine’s story has to be butchered. It’s a shame cuz the difficulty in USUM makes it really fun
Sun and Moon are definitely my favorite games in the entire series, but the existence of Ultra Sun and Moon drags the gen down enough to put it in 4th overall for me. Its gonna take a lot for a character to be ingrained in my mind as much as Lillie is. Such a cool character
I'm guessing Blacephalon could be light and noise pollution, specifically fireworks. Large cities and their bright lights have been known to negativelt affect some species of wildlife.
One part of Team Skull that I think gets missed is that many of its members who felt the expectations of family to complete the island challenge, and failed. Even though their families would of course accept them back, they instead ran to fellow outcasts and formed Team Skull. In that regards, team skull is a found family that is hurting and easy to manipulate. They’re one of my favorite teams simply because they’re trying too hard, and they’re fun because of it
Hell, in Sun and Moon, it's implied that Lusamine exploited this aspect of Guzma to get him to do her bidding. He saw her as someone who showed her respect, unlike most other authority in the region because of his own history with paternal abuse. And because of that, he and the rest of Team Skull become pawns.
It's also entirely possible a lot of the parents wouldn't be so accepting of their children failing the challenge. The way Guzma yells at himself in third person when he loses *really* implies he was verbally abused as a child, and the broken and bent golf clubs in his parents house sure Paints A Picture. Guzma and Plumeria are really just trying to give people a community and home
@@PatManDX Not really implied, Plumeria straight up tells you that’s what happened when she confronts you on Poni Island and asks you to help save him.
@@Shinntoku I'm pretty sure how every adult that ever knows Guzma, and how they talk of him beforehand (as in before he made his team), tells that he wasn't verbally abused. More like tired of ending up short from getting first place, or not being first pick as a top honor student of any kind. Even more apparent with how he has all the Bug Z crystals, so no one else can have them. As for the golf clubs, he's just destructive, and isn't happy about losing. Which is also shown at the Skull hideout, and his room. Not anything about abuse. So yes, there was a picture, you just missed it by a lot.
Its not just the Ultra games... Even in the anime they toned down Lusamine to just being an overprotective but loving mother. Really spits in the face of the whole "overcoming an abusive parent" story arc with Lillie. :(
Nope, this is bad reading comprehension very reductive. Lusamine is way more than just what you described and there is abuse in the anime. In fact, the anime expands on her character greatly, giving her so much more depth and nuance. She's super shallow in the games in comparison.
I noticed the anime got so toned down in general to the point that you don't even see Pokémon being captured until that wild Pokémon consents to being caught.
@@aknemesis5078I don't know if that's a bad thing. In a show where the pokemon are sentient creatures with their own distinct characters and character arcs, making them have agency over their capture makes much more sense. It makes for stronger stories and addresses an otherwise weird ethical problem. As far as I'm concerned the only reason it's not like that in the games is because it doesn't make as much sense in a monster collection game.
@@Pokemonleafmon That much I get, I just wonder if they made that change independently or just to appeal to a wider audience. Like how the blood got toned down in Dragon Ball.
Ive always loved these games and disagree on a lot of your points, but i very much agree on one: Ethan, please, you need to wake up. You've been in a coma for years. Your family misses you. I miss you, Ethan. We've been trying to reach out to you for so long. Please, wake up.
I can agree with the sentiment that if i were younger when i played these games, maybe i would’ve liked them more. But as a 17 year old at the time, the hand holdy nature and being forced to focus in the story was annoying.
@@elmuchacho3379 I was 13 when these games came out, played them when I was 16 and found SM to be a huge slog. Loved the story and characters, hated the execution of it. I pretty much agree with all of KinKs points
I'm sad Sun and Moon get roped in to that "modern Pokemon sucks" mentality. I find Alola has such an energy and passion that I don't find with XY or SwSh.
Yeah, Sun/ Moon has a unique vibe that you usually don’t get out of modern Pokémon. Since it’s obviously based on Hawaii, it has a bit of a laid back feel to it, which is one of my favorite aspects about it.
I think in general the whole "modern Pokemon sucks" mentality is silly when I think some of the most recent games have been some of the most exciting and refreshing in the series, don't get me wrong there are flaws to be found and some pretty big ones but games like Legends Arceus and Scarlet and Violet take the franchise in exciting new directions!
Yes, it truly feels like a place put together with care and not just random biomes next to each other (literally in the case of the last dlc for SV). Lillie is at least on the top 3 of written characters in the games and Hau's USUM arc is actually pretty neat unlike Hop in SwSh. Just wait a few more years and people will come around.
I think it's fair for them to be grouped because the entire problem is that these games didn't have enough development time allocated to them. SM are no different in that regard. Me personally SM are some of the most difficult games to go back to because the pacing is so slow and many of the areas look the same. I've played through it twice, and despite that many Pokemon are favorites of mine and the story isn't horrible it's just hard to play on a moment to moment basis.
@@TheClhWarrior That is true. Especially since Sun/ Moon are fully 3D modeled, which require more time and work to make it more polished compared to pixel art.
People always say that they wished Pokemon had a higher difficulty... But that comes at a cost. If the game is too hard, you CAN'T just "use your favorites." If your favorites just happen to have too low of a BST, then tough luck, better get a stronger more viable team. :( On the other hand though... Difficulty also leads to the most memorable moments. I don't remember much from my playthrough of Ultra Moon, but the thing I DO remember is _Ultra Necrozma._ I had to retry that fight multiple times, and ultimately I was only able to win thanks to my Golisopod switching out with Emergency Exit and getting a second chance to land a super-effective First Impression (this is why Golisopod is one of my favorite Pokemon of all time).
tbf there's definitely a fair balance of major fights loosing if you so much as look at them to hard and Drayano challenge mode fights. You don't need much, better coverage to counter common types, better variety of mons in teams, instead of a rock type gym leader with 2 geodudes, held items like basic healing berries. Stuff like that
I think people are just asking for a noticeable sense of difficulty. Like the older games. Nobody is going to claim any of those games are insanely hard. Just that they have some encounters that can make you think. Newer pokemon games are so mind numbingly easy even a toddler could best these trainers first try.
Despite the very obvious flaws with this generation, I've come back to it more over the past eight years than I have any other generation in Pokemon. I think where they succeeded with atmosphere and vibes they kind of failed in other aspects like stagnant gameplay and a sort of aimless idea of what to do with this region. It's a shame they relied so heavily on that gen 1 nostalgia becuase there's so much cool stuff they could have done with the history and cultures of the Hawaiian islands
Sun and Moon is the epitome of a one-and-done game to me. I’ve seen so many people, including multiple friends of mine, say they really enjoyed their first playthrough of Sun and Moon, but found replaying it to be an absolute chore. There are plenty of games like that, but this is the most egregious case I’ve seen.
preach, same, i wonder if skipping cutscenes would help that, granted the game doesnt have a NG+ feature so thats impossible to give the game info of "yeah i beat the game before"
The only pokemon game to date i have NOT replayed since release day, and the game that made me stop buying any new pokemon game :) i stay with gen 1 - 6
Dewpider and Araquanid were one of my favorite additions to Alola simply because they weren’t in the millions of promotional material that spoiled every new Pokémon. Having that feeling of “wait… what is this?” when I encountered a Dewpider near the water trial is now always near and dear to my heart.
You can ignore promotional material you know, I do it all the time when I'm excited for a game/movie etc. I figure that stuff is to get new people interested, not me who is already a fan
@@blakeblanderson Sure, but it's important to understand that Gen 7 was the first (and last) time Game Freak decided to reveal literally *everything* before the release of the games. Seriously, there were like 5 Pokemon families, most of which were Ultra Beasts, that weren't revealed before the release of the games.
When I first heard the term "Ultra Beast" I thought it was the dumbest thing ever... But I've grown to really ADORE the concept of alien Pokemon from other dimensions. I dream of one day getting a game that takes place _in_ Ultra Space, like Legends Arceus except we get to explore the dimensions of the Ultra Beasts, with new Pokedex full of alien Pokemon... But I know it probably won't ever happen.
While that would be cool, I think they’re using legends games right now to finish up loose ends with older gens, so we probably won’t get a legends Alola game anytime soon. Maybe we could get a sequel or a new type of game instead
This would be rad as heck. The Ultra Beasts have always worked far better for me than gen 9's Paradox Pokemon because they feel far more unique and not ripping off potential design real estate for possible evolutions to older Pokemon
Play as a member of the Ultra Recon Squad either before or after the events of USUM, seeking out Pokemon from other dimensions to catalog and find ways to restore the environment of Ultramegaopolis's dimension after it was decimated by Necrozma. They should let you visit Alola and the other dimensions you can visit in the postgame of USUM. The Ultra Beasts fill the role of the boss battles. Wrap the story's themes around the dangers of trying to control nature and play God, even with the best of intentions (which was what caused the problem with Necrozma in the first place). Doubt they'd ever make this game, especially since fleshing out those dimensions and would probably have to design a lot of new pokemon (or dimensional forms of existing ones) to make them feel like real places. But God I think it'd be pretty cool.
I mean, we never thought we'd explore ancient Sinoh in a semi-open environment setting where you can catch pokemon by sneaking up on them without even needing to battle, either. There's no way to know! I agree that a game set in the Ultra Space would be very cool.
As someone born and raised in Hawaii. I’m rather disappointed they didn’t make a Pokemon based off Hawaii’s state bird, the Nene. Maybe they could have like a regional variant of Quaquaval in a Legends game set in Alola. Also, rise your hand if you were hoping they’d add new regional forms for the Ultra games. As for the Ultra games, I think they should’ve went further with changing the story, like have Lusamine not act antagonistic. Why not have her be consumed by work to the point she sends off Lillie and Gladion with Nebby and Type Null to do the Island Trials as to not have them distract her. Maybe the trials have you and the Totem Pokemon team up against an Ultra Beast as well. Like imagine fighting Guzzlord alongside the Totem Kommo-O. Hell maybe Team Skull were hired as bodyguards for Lillie and Gladion. Maybe the grunt fights are just them deciding to have some fun while on break.
I lived in Hawaii for a time and when I saw the Nene, I remember being told that they were endangered and I basically avoided them like the plague. Building a Pokemon around this would've been so cool, would have made more sense to make a regional bird out of it instead of the toucan
personally i quite like that lusamine was the games' antagonist. i have a parent like her, and it made me feel weirdly seen to have a character like her in a video game. i am still a bit salty that they attributed her obsessions to Nihiligo's toxins in USUM. that's my opinion though. lusamine exists as a really unique character in the pokemon canon, so i'm pretty attached to her as a concept.
One of my favorite video games ever. Have an attachment to Ultra Moon especially because that was the last game my Grandpa bought me before he died a few years ago
@@wikiuser92Same. It takes everything great about Sun & Moon and adds to it. Like Mantine Surfing, Ultra Wormhole Traversal via the box legendaries, and a larger post game.
It may not have landed with some of your audience, but I LIVED during the stormlight chapter. I pulled my kid over to show him the name of your bagon (due to his name, he gets called Kaladin a LOT) and was gonna go check the comments to see if anyone else caught it, then I was hit with fucking ART. Enjoy the end of oathbringer, enjoy the rhythms of war, and I'm looking forward to the retrospective when book 5 is out! Journey before destination!
It's impressive how hard gamefreak fumbled gen 8 Genuinely one of the most unmemorable pair of main series titles For the millions of flaws gen 9 has I feel they are infinitely more interesting games
Gen 8 feels like a game where you play as a trainer going on their journey while there’s a character already out solving the problems you would need to take care of if they weren’t there, which ends up making it feels like nothing is happening… until the very end of the game when the game realizes that you’re supposed to be the main character solving all these problems and brings you back into the spotlight to help save the region.
@@mintystingmoon4787 But at the same time, it's finally the adults taking responsibility, like they goddamn should. Which honestly can't say how irksome most of the times it is, when there's strong public figures like a Gym Leader or something, who's right there next to a big criminal event happening. And how none of them, nor the police, seem to go and arrest the bad guys (except for Looker).
I don't think I've ever simultaneously disagreed with, and loved a videoessay so much. Base Sun and Moon are tied with gen 9 (I did not stutter. I know what I'm saying here lol) as my favorite Pokémon games, especially for the story and characters. A point of view you seem to understand very well, and even used to somewhat agree with when you made your old video. Said video was always one of my favorites on the game, for being one of the few that shared my sentiment on it. I fully acknowledge the flaws with Sun and Moon (acknowledging your favorite games' flaws is something you kinda have to do when three of them are Sonic Frontiers, Xenoblade 2, and Pokémon gen 9 lol), and I share in a lot of those frustrations, to some extent. I'd love it for gen 7 to have a "skip cutscene" button. I'd love a more demanding difficulty balance (something I actually like in Ultra, unlike you), Etc. But Sun and Moon are so meaningful to me, that these issues don't even register to me so strongly. Whenever I think of, or replay Sun and Moon I'm flooded by all the good feelings I have on this game. I'm reminded of the great characters, attention to detail, music, vibes. And to me, that's stronger than any flaws these games can have. My experience with learning English while getting into Pokémon, led me to-- for a while-- treat every game in the series as a capital J JRPG. As I replayed them, I came to realize how... understated the story is most other generations. Which only made my appreciation for gen 7 that much stronger. A lot of the new things Alola introduced "in place" of the typical gym challenge, are indeed very similar to it, but the thing that makes them stand out to me, is how the game doesn't necessarily revolve around them, in the same way older gens did around the gyms. The trials are definitely *A* part of the story, and the main excuse for you to go on your journey, but the structure never feels subservient to them. The last island's lack of traditional trials actually works to the game's advantage, in this case. Since at that point, the story is fully committed to the Lusamine storyline. And THAT'S the game's true climax and focus, in the long-term. The characters and their relationships with each other and the player, are the main draw of Alola's campaign to me. Kukui's final battle isn't simply "another battle against a champion". Not because it's necessarily any different in structure than previous games, but because Kukui is a character that the player has gotten to know a lot better, and likely cares a whole lot more about than previous champions. It's a victory lap to close out an unforgettable journey. One that was made so meaningful not because of all the aspects it shares with the previous games, but because of the people you met, the places you saw, and the culture you experienced along the way. In that sense, Alola IS NOT like most other Pokémon games-- being more comparable to your typical JRPG. It's closer a lower-stakes Final Fantasy than Pokemon Red & Blue. With that in mind, you should never, under any circumstances, try to replay these games multiple times in a short amount of time (which is part of the ultimate hipocrasy with the Ultra games, which you summarized pretty well in the video). Try replaying a Persona or Xeno game right after you beat it. Most of the time, that's not particularly fun. You just experienced this journey. It's fresh in your mind. You're just gonna have to sit through a buncha text and cutscenes you just saw. Much like these bigger, more story-focused RPGs, replays start making more sense when they're years apart. When you start to miss the world and characters, and you're able to re-experience it all with a different perspective. I have a bit of a different take on the world design than you. Having replayed Alola in the past few years-- and in that playthrough, making sure to explore every nook and cranny of Alola-- I find that the region is not as stale as many make it out to be. While the change in artstyle makes the world design's shortcomings more apparent, Alola's still filled with optional areas and very thoughtful worldbuilding details. It may have veered away from the more labyrinthian design of the older games, in favor of something more realistic. But it makes up for it in making Alola feel more lived-in. Reading NPC dialogue, finding out where each of the major characters' houses are (and with that, getting a closer look at their personal lives), finding some incidental part of Alola-- like a graveyard or a cave-- all give the region its own flair. One that's different from the older games', but that makes itself memorable not purely through static game design, but through more hard-to-grasp, "artistic" aspects, such as worldbuilding and art design. Hau'oli City is one of favorite areas in gaming, because it's somewhere I'd just love to visit in real life. The lack of abstraction, with gen 7's less exaggerated proportions help a lot with that. I'll admit my bias towards tropical settings definitely shows here, but my point still stands. I'd say Sun and Moon still feels adventurous to me, in the same way exploring a real-life city or hiking trail is. Sure, the roads might be somewhat defined, but it's about taking in the sights and relishing in the cool little detours. I apologize for the long comment, but your video really got me excited to talk about gen 7 again. It inspired me to make a video sharing my own thoughts on Sun and Moon more in-depth. So, thanks for the great work, as always! :D
This is the epitome of "a 7/10 is a 10/10 for a particular palette" i can count how much media that meant the world to me but the general consensus is that its 'mid', if it resonates with you, REALLY RESONATES... Thats irreplaceable
@@aokyoutsuki7744 100%. Art is subjective. I personally had to drop Gen9 because I was so uninterested, but truly one person's trash is another's treasure
PREACH, thank you for summarizing all my thoughts. I played SuMo when it first came out, and only recently played Ultra, and I had a great time revising it! People give these games way too much flak.
Gosh what a depressing ending. For something to be your favorite to not at all is heartbreaking from my perspective. I suppose it's more because it's something I personally fear when it should be celebrated. Tastes change as we grow as people and the context of the time is definitely an important factor as you stated. While I don't expect you to cover the switch games for a long time if at all I'd certainly be interested if you ever do. Moreso scarlet and violet as I feel there's more to discuss than sword and shield but you've surprised me before so I could be completely wrong 😅. Thanks for the vid and I hope YOU have fun today
It really does suck having your favorite games loose their appeal to you. Seeing stuff about Splatoon 3 ending recently made me a bit miffed that I didn't enjoy it enough to stick around. Things went from Splatoon 2 being a game I spent so much time playing and getting good at to getting tired of Splatoon 3 after a month. That's not to mention the various childhood games I can't stomach anymore.
@@xemiii Right there with you regarding Splatoon. I loved Splatoon 1, and loved Splatoon 2 even more, but was disappointed with Splatoon 3. I hope the fourth game is more of a return to form, but there's no guarantee that'll happen. I may never love Splatoon ever again in the same way I loved it years ago.
Another aspect of Lusamine's original character is in how she manipulated Guzma, who himself was a victim of parental abuse, meaning that Guzma essentially just ran away one abuser, right into the arms of another. I don't think it would've been impossible to have Lusamine take a path of redemption after being defeated in Ultra Space, but Gamefreak took the cowardly approach of just retconning her abusive nature altogether, which at the same time suggests their message is there's no such thing as redemption or second chances, which contradicts their approach to Teams Aqua and Magma, and Silver. Team Skull were such an interesting Team, but I think they fumbled the ending for them. The idea was that they felt like outcasts and failures, unable to reach their dreams or not fitting in with the island's culture, and they were so desperate they banded together and formed this gang where they could belong. Then you beat the game and it turns out they've disbanded because its members were able to simply go back to their lives and live out their dreams, no problem, and the islanders just forgave and forgot everything with no issue. No fallout or long road to recovery, literally just "Oh turns out Team Skull's issues never actually existed at all so they just stopped acting up". Sun and Moon is really against the idea of redemption arcs, or addressing the nuances of what makes people rebel against the system. Also Plumeria is a character I'll never understand how she got as popular as she did. Her design is cool, but her part in the story is so generic I even forget she exists half the time. She's literally just a Team Skull Admin who happens to have a name, she doesn't really do anything other than show up sometimes to be a boss battle.
Pokemon changed for the worse when it went 3D with X&Y. You are totally right, exploration is totally gone. That was what was most fun as a kid. Going somewhere you shouldn't with escape ropes and lots of potions and trying to find that mystical mewtwo. All gone now, you find legendaries like candy and they are just standing there.
These games are interesting to talk about. At launch, I was over the moon about how much they shook up the formula and how passionate their story was. To this day, I think the last quarter of the original games is among the most touching segments of any game I played, and it pairs really well with the tropical setting and otherworldly subtext. Then eight years passed, and I started to change the things I value, realizing that stories have a reduced impact on subsequent playthroughs, that the island challenge's difficulty and novelty wore off when later generations ended up just reverting to Gyms, and that Alola's map layout and relative lack of features were always underwhelming and the chief factors that caused me to focus more on other entries. All this being said, I still appreciate the games' positives and wish more entries would simply adopt them alongside the other things I look for. (Also, shout out for the Primarina, Lurantis, and Oricorio team. I used those three the first time I played and they're some of my favorites.)
I really appreciate the accoutability and also artistic merit of using your past review and sentiments as the interstitial material in this review. It adds a lot of depth and validity to the video. Opinions can change over time; that’s part of what growing up is about. (See? That’s one of the themes of the video!)
I think this is the generation that really opened my eyes to the fact that pokémon fans really dont know what they want. It already started with gen 5. Before it released people wanted a fresh pokémon game. They soft rebooted the franchise and people complained about "but muh charizard". With these being the worst selling pair of games at the time. (I'm aware that a lot of fans loved these already at release, but the general fanbase didnt) Then people wanted a 3D game, X and Y release and people complain about the 3D models, bad movement and how much of a step-down it was after B2W2. Then people wanted more story focus. Sun and Moon release and people... complain about cutscenes and text mashing? Its actually pretty sad too because Sun and Moon have some of the more intriguing story lines. And i dont think i even have to mention the "we want open world" debacl that was SV. To be quite honest, i personally think that SM and USUM are up there as some of the better pokémon games. But i can't fault anyone for disliking them.
I kind of agree but I think some of those complaints are reasonable and there's so many Pokemon fans that I think saying that they don't know what they want isn't completely fair. A soft reboot was a good idea but it was always gonna be risky since lots of people stick to using their favourites. I love Gen 5 but most of the dex is average to me. The 3D models were cool but they didn't feel as lively as the moving sprites especially with some of the flying/floating Pokemon. I never minded the cutscenes in SM. SV are technically open world but without level scaling you can't do your own thing without risking getting stomped or being overlevelled.
While I do agree with your initial position, I’m not sure if these examples are entirely fair. Because most of the fan complaints after B/W are mostly just because of things being implemented badly (whether through bad decisions or legitimate logistical constraints) rather than because they didn’t like what they asked for. Like, I think the fan base absolutely loves the open world in scarlet and violet (I definitely do). The complaints about those games are instead related to its technical issues and lack of level scaling, which is a separate issue. And in the case of sun and moon, people do like the story it tells- just not the WAY it is told. Sun and moon could have had the best story in the world, and it still would have been largely ruined by the way that they tried to integrate it into a Pokémon game (especially in subsequent playthroughs). So people leave the games dissatisfied, only remembering the extremely long constant cutscenes, rather than the story itself. This is one of the things Scarlet and Violet is best at- the stories are both compelling and also told in a comparatively minimally intrusive way.
SM would be beloved if it wasn't for the absolutely terrible pacing. Additionally, I unfortunately think the way that maps are created and filled out in 3D will make it so those games are never as fondly remembered as the 2D ones.
I think alot of people also didn't have a realistic grasp on the switches capabilities, regarding the SV open world. Because I too think the open world is great. But I also understand that you can't expect a super detailed open world on a platform that quite frankly has grandfather hardware at this point. I've seen plenty of those old fan made "if pokémon was openworld" videos where people in the comments are saying that SV should've been like that instead, completely ignoring the fact that the switch couldn't handle games of that detail. And yes, I did very much generalise with my points because its does fit the shoe of the general fanbase. Of course its more nuanced than that. But at the same time I can't just say "Hey that one very specific group thinks otherwise so that's the point I will make" because that would be quite nitpicky and disingenuous.
Ultra Necrozma is such a strange "difficulty spike" in my experience. When I encountered it for the first time, my team was mid level 50s and every single member of my team got super-effective one shot. After hours of grinding on Poni Canyon Pokemon to get everyone to level 60, next attempt I just one shot no crit it with Decidueye's Z-Move.
My only real complaint with Sun/Moon is the ridiculous, egregious levels of handholding, stopping you far too often to go over basic stuff. But I really love this cast, this region, this OST, the new Pokemon, regional forms, the fact everyone can use a Z-crystal compared to Mega Stones, zooming around on Tauros, the showdown with Lusamine, and the postgame Looker questline. Why on earth Game Freak traded in one of their strongest, most original plot beats for another rampaging legendary in USUM is beyond me. Denying Lillie her resolution is a crime, especially since all we get to explore of Ultra Megalopolis is one street and a tower. The peek into other dimensions is sorta neat, and I liked the Necrozma fight, but it needed more time in the oven. Also idk, I thought Mantine Surf was one of Pokemon's better minigames. Didn't expect to enjoy that as much as I did. Rainbow Rocket was fine, hard to complain about more Guzma, but as one of the nine Anabel fans out there, I liked base Sun/Moon's postgame more. The Looker stuff was really neat, and we got more Nanu.
I have the same problem with Mario & Luigi: Dream Team. The tutorials are obnoxious and you can't even skip them, there's an good number of padding that you have to do in order to proceed without given an option and the battles are so slow.
It has taken me a while to start watching this video because watching your videos is a sacred event in my mind and I need to be in just the right space to give it the attention it deserves 🙏
30:35 well that came out of nowehre for me. I'm a huge Brandon Sanderson fan so suddenly my ears pricked up as I was reading some other articles with this in the background
I'm someone who went through possibly the complete opposite experience when it comes to Gen 7. I wasn't a fan of the games when they came out, and it wasn't until I revisited them right before the release of Scarlet and Violet where I really grew to appreciate them, especially the Ultra games. I personally disagree with a lot of your points, but you did make me look at these games in a different way, specifically in terms of the story and difficulty. People have told me that USUM isn't as good as SM because of the story changes. I kinda brushed them off when they said that, but hearing you ACTUALLY explain WHY the changes in the story negatively effected the game really did open my eyes and I now have a better understanding of why people hold that opinion. I do want to point out a common misconception you mentioned that I noticed at 48:00. You actually CAN catch Nebby before you beat the game. Lillie and Nebby appear at Mahalo Trail after you defeat Ilima for Mina's Trial. You can catch Solgaleo/Lunala and use it for the Totem Ribombee, Hapu's Grand Trial, and the Pokemon League. I don't blame you for missing this, since the game doesn't really tell you that you can do this and it happens at a pretty random time. I don't know why you can't just catch it at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone after the climax like in SM. It seems like an unnecessary change. Other than that, I really enjoyed this video. I'm looking forward the Sword and Shield Retrospective if you decide to make one. I remember you saying in an old video that you are a defender of SwSh, so I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the game and whether and not your opinions have changed since making that statement. Regardless, I look forward to seeing whatever video you make next, regardless of if it's Pokémon or not!
I love gen 7. Gen 6 is almost impossible to replay. 7 has so much charm and polish. There’s a hack for ultra moon called prismatic moon that is one of the best ever made imo
Definitely agree about these games having negative replay value. I really enjoyed my first Moon playthrough, but then getting USUM only one year later I just felt insulted as a consumer when I realized they literally sold us 80% the same game, instead of at least a sequel. Platinum at least had a two year gap, with way more improvements made. I still haven't gone back and beaten USUM, I think I'm still on the second island. I just don't wanna drag through the unskippable cutscenes that I've mostly already seen before, or all the handholding.
You have Yo-Kai Watch to thank for Sun and Moon trying so much harder than XY after Yo-Kai Watch 2 outsold ORAS in Japan. Almost every feature from Sun and Moon comes off as a shallow attempt at implementing Yo-Kai Watch features.
@@christofu148 Totem Pokemon, Z-Moves, Rotom Dex, Island Scan QR Codes, Z-Move poses, that camera minigame and you can easily argue Alolan forms were their take on Merikan Yo-Kai.
For me gen 7 is my favorite because of the detail they put into the new Pokemon and regional variants, as you so wonderfully explained in this video. Yungoose resembling a certain president while being an invasive species, AND this game dropped in November 2016? To me that’s impeccable world building 😭 Also mimikyu is peak. That’s my little pookie, I would defend it with my life. Also on a personal note, I met my partner back in high school literally 8 years ago because we were both so excited for s&m and would watch the trailers together after school 😭🫶🏽 we’ve been best friends ever since, and we just hit our 2 year anniversary 🥹 These games will always be special to me even if I am a filthy casual dammit!
Oh boy here we go I really wish Gen 7 wasn't so flawed, because despite the egregious amount of cutscenes, I find the gameplay to be some of the best in the series. Nuzlocking the games blind were some of the most memorable moments I had with Pokemon.
@@dogishappy0 Seriously. It's so frustrating that it's apparently impossible to remove the cutscenes with modding (or if it is possible, that nobody's actually done it yet)
My biggest problem is all the railroading. You literally cannot wander even a single inch off the critical path. There will always be a closed gate, an npc with pokemon inexplicably blocking the path or just some dude going "whoa there who do you think you are wandering off the main path, get back on there and go to your map marker." Its way worse in USUM.
Replaying Ultra Moon I was so unbelievably mad that they took out Lillie standing up against her mother. It was so inspiring to a younger me who played Sun as a child and who HAD parents like Lusamine. Parents who would throw fits like children or not let me pick out my own clothes till practically freshmen year. Her standing up to Lusamine defined her character growth, and throwing it all away in the Ultra remakes hurt my soul
I remember bailing out of pokemon after X and Y and skiped Sun and Moon. It wasn't until last year where I gave the game a proper shot. Honestly, while my chat and call kept talking about how much things made them mad about the games. I found myself enjoying them in a way modern Pokemon hasen't been able to hook me in at all. To quickly talk gameplay I liked improvements such as the ride pokemon replacing HMs as I never liked the idea of HMs from day one just to have pokemon fillings spots just to do context actions. I just rather have the train have the powers themselves which the games do. I can get the complaint about Z moves taking up time. And yes they do, I found them honestly more intresting than other gimicks as other trainers could pull them out whenever and could be any type of move making you need to adapt on the fly and not be in auto pilot when in battle. But the thing for me was the fact that Sun and Moon maybe even more so than Black and White, did have that ephasis on story. I feel as I have grown older, Pokemon hasn't done much for me as my RPG catalog has grown. I learn to love character focused stories where they grow interact with others and go through proper arcs. Something that honestly, most games in the Pokemon franchise just don't acomplish. Many of the cats feel interchangable from rivals, to teams and thier leaders. They still do have the feel of "babies first RPG"that feel afraid to really dive into characters and give them true pesonalities or goals outside of conquer the world or become champion. The story of Lilie, her family, and the island felt like one of the first times in the franchise that the champion and team plot was secondary to the REAL plot of the game and that kept me far more engaged in what was happening and characters actually devlop in the story in more than just battling. It had a story and characters it actually wanted to tell that didn't just feel like it was going through the motions. Pokemon for most of it's life I feel has been afraid to actually being an RPG if that makes sense. Like it really will just go through the motions it needs to, swap some characters here and there and call it a day. Sun and Moon felt like more than that to me and thus managed to keep me around when I found myself not beeing mentally locked into what was happening. Even Pokemon Violet while trying to do something similar, I think missed the mark because It does still feel stuck in the same placeholder mentality. I get it the cutscenes can get into the way and it can feel slow. But It ironically doesn't feel as slow to me as previous or future games because I actually care about the story and it doesn't feel like I'm just checking things off a list. I like that Sun and Moon feel like actual RPGs and not Pokemon games. And I wish more of the series felt like that.
Gen 7 as a whole was my favorite generation until recently. It's still in my top 3. I can't say which one is my number 1 favorite because then I'll get crucified by the internet so I'll just leave it at that.
I hate generational wars with Pokémon and how toxic Pokemon fans can be when someone mentions an unpopular opinion, coming from someone who experienced this when Gen 5 was unpopular (my favorite Gen).
@@JTtheOctolingPeople always need to justify their opinion and argue because then they feel “right”. If a generation is special to you, then fuck the rest. I may never feel a lot of love towards the generations that came after 5 but if someone else loves X/Y then who am I to say they shouldn’t. People love to objectify the subjective because they’re in denial.
@@imbored1179 I find mainline Gen 8 to be incredible, and I've been playing since Gen 3. Both BDSP and SwSh. Something about SwSh's pacing made me replay it 5 times. It's so snappy, has the right amount of challenge in Gyms, camping is great, the Wild Area variety opens up teambuilding to an incredible degree really early on, excellent new additions... I'm not crazy enough to deny all the flaws people have rightfully pointed out, but as for me? Sans the unfinished story and some raids, it's one of my favourite Pokémon games, near Platinum, Emerald and BDSP (yes, really). Haven't enjoyed S/V nearly as much. They steal X/Y's "Most Unfinished Game" to me. The complete lack of Battle Tower made me not buy the DLC, it feels like there's something lacking (as one who doesn't like playing online). First game that introduced a whole batch of new mons that I can't truly battle with, being the paradoxes. Edit: Even in the base game, SwSh had a really good Battle Tower, which by itself nearly doubled my main campaign playtime
I disagree that Alola does not have optional distractions for players. Ten Carat Hill, Kala’e Bay, Blush Mountain, and Haina Desert are among these optional areas, so I don’t really think you can claim Gen 5 somehow has more experiences off of its linear path. Routes still have multiple pathways and special mini boss fights with rewards for beating all trainers. There’s still side quests in games in cities to do for special items, ones that cannot be found without exploration of Alola as a place and as something beyond just hallways.
i think its a matter of some people having a minimum quota for the route complexity. for me gen 2 is the minimum, with gen 1 and base 8 thoroughly lacking. 7 did a good job for me, and i think its overall up there. edit: i also think its hard to recognize the complexity that does exist in alola due to how the game railroads you. that’s also why the dialogue is so frequent. the player isnt allowed to break off and do something else. there’s exploration to be had but you’re not allowed to until the story progresses. gotta be really my only issue with this gen.
Not to mention all the charming little interactions you can have with NPCs, like the two Team Skull Grunts fighting about one wearing the others shirt or the girl with her Sandyghast on the black sand beach.
Actually, one thing I do think Ultra Sun and Moon improved on over the originals is the amount of side content. USUM are the first games in the series to have an abundance of full fledged sidequests that pop up occasionally over the course of the game. My favorites being the haunted trainer school and Imposter Ditto gang. The latter is especially cool because those Ditto had really nice IVs for training
@@KingKlonoa I think there’s some really valuable stuff there you’re ignoring there - Z-Crystals, rare Pokemon like Rockruff or Bagon (you mentioned searching for 2 hours - the chance at Kala’e Bay is 10x that of Route 3’s), and in Haina Desert’s case, both a Z-Crystal AND an entire Legendary in Tapu Bulu. Blush Mountain is the only one of these areas I’d say is too small to matter, but there’s still Pokemon there that you can’t find anywhere else. Not all Pokemon games meet this criteria with their optional areas.
I kinda wish that in Gen 7, we could see Lillie develop more as a character. It would be awesome to see her use the Mascot Legendary (evolved from Nebby) against the player.
Gen 7 shook up the formula and did so well with characters. Lillie is great, the designs are amazing and it feels the most wanting to highlight how a culture in the real world is beautiful. And also the Elite Four and League not existing was so cool. I personally don’t care about the long cutscenes I’ve played the games 3 times each and it’s not a burden for me personally This Gen having a pretty distinct split rather than addition to the story or pacing also was refreshing to me, some things hit not as hard, but parallels it. Lusamine in SM is so much explicitly abusive with less resolution. But in the anime, USUM, and the mobile spin off, she acts so so much more supportive but also harms her kids because she is worried she’s hurting them again. And it just is a powerful dynamic I’m glad they included even if they stepped on characterization. Idk I just love Gen 7, not as much as 5 but 5 is peak
I love Gen 7 but most of it came from the music, the story, and the Pokémon and frankly I worry about ever replaying it due to the same reasons you listed for falling out of love with it. One small aspect you didn’t touch on were the competitive changes game freak implemented in these games. Relevant ones like confusion being a 1/3 chance, electric types being unable to be paralyzed, and many stat increases to different older Pokémon, including masquerain. Just figured it was worth mentioning since you brought up your confusion strategies and struggling against that mon in particular. Love these videos tho, saves me the time of replaying each of these games fully.
POV: Its 2016 and you are even after over 10 years still at the top of the formerly biggest Pokémon Forum on the web, 3 years after Gen 6 and you have become a more or less respected IT Admin/Moderator/Forum Member compared to the release period of X&Y, you relentlessly try to keep the Community together well into the Reddit and Post-Webforum era of the internet but its clear that the _golden days_ of the forum are long over. The off topic threads are more barren than ever and it seems like Generation Z isnt present on the website at all. Gen 7 comes and goes and its release period is just not at all comparable to say the release days of B&W which is still remembered as "The Great Shut down" by forum elders. But there are so many more important things in the world than Pokemon to you at this point, this whole 2016 US election is kind of scaring you so you go out and do activism, because its simply a more productive use of your time... *The Sad Pokémon Forum Moderator chronicles* 2003: ua-cam.com/video/aM7s-ivZMyw/v-deo.html&lc=UgwP7nfjbiF5jzxX_kV4AaABAg 2006: ua-cam.com/video/6HWJH8TS6eQ/v-deo.html&lc=Ugx7bc1f3T2-DZftsrZ4AaABAg 2011: ua-cam.com/video/yWZTMhjBSmM/v-deo.html&lc=Ugz7u2Stodq3li9g6VB4AaABAg 2012: ua-cam.com/video/6aBKea_Ko9w/v-deo.html&lc=Ugyq41l9VLqVebEvb0p4AaABAg 2013: ua-cam.com/video/IFA-_RKuJfg/v-deo.html&lc=UgyiHdCBQcs45zGDK1x4AaABAg # 45:10 Were excusing parental abuse with this one🗣🗣 53:05 Imagine there would have been a Honolulu type city where you would have to dodge traffic to get across town😭😭
Gen 7 is my second favorite Gen, right behind Gen 5 (played White 2 and Ultra Sun). All the alien/extradimentional Pokémon are peak designs and their plot was my favorite part of Alola. (Necrozma and it’s forms are top tier legendary Pokémon)
I believe the reason why Hau was the 'Champion' fight in USUM was to come full circle for the handheld Pokemon games. In gen 1 the entire 'story' if there even is one. is you bickering with your rival with the final fight being you beating them after they became champion. In USUM you are Blue/Gary/Whatever while Hau is the challenger, only difference is you beat him instead. It's no peak story telling and it's not better than the Kukui fight (fighting the proffesor who's litteral job is researching moves and battles is sick). but I see what they were going for and I personal can appreicate it especially for something different between the 2 games. Also USUM's credits are litterally a replica of the HQSS credits with the animated pokemon sprites along the boarders of the screen with the credits in the center. So I have a feeling the devs wanting a more sentimental vibe with the ending, calling back to other handheld games while knowing that Pokemon would go to the switch next year. Marking an end of an era, with main line Pokemon games being only purely handheld experiences. This dosen't redeem them butchering Lusamine and all that but I get it. Also get good scrub USUM is not that hard! 😎, JK good video. 👍
Gen 7 in general is just far and away my least favourite gen as someone who's played since the start and still enjoyed every other gen. One day I hope to escape my prejudices
I always think it’s funny how Mimikyu wants to imitate Pikachus to be as beloved as them. And yet, years ago Mimikyu became like the third most popular Pokémon. Way more popular than Pikachu. So in the end, Mimikyu did win.
Sun/Moon is probably my favorite game in the series but it's definitely not a very replayable one. It's excellent for that moment in 2016 to experience the best Pokémon storytelling the 3DS can offer with all of the cool new mons and a more immersive and cinematic overworld, but it's not conducive to reruns and the linearity feels limiting instead of focused when you're not engrossed in following the story path fresh. This also feels like it's sorta hitting a Sonic Colors situation where people retroactively look at it worse because of the later sequel after the novelty wore off on superior hardware that doesn't improve on anything, makes the shortcomings even more glaring, and makes people think the developers didn't care (Sonic Forces / Pokémon Sword & Shield). Either way I'll never agree with people that say Pokémon doesn't work in 3D (that always felt like targeting a symptom instead of a cause) because for this one window in time, for the last mainline new game to come out on a portable console, it *did* work, if for a little while.
Yknow what nah. I'm gonna ramble just a little about how much i love these games. The fan community at the time of the lead up to release was amazing. The welcoming atmosphere of Moon Alola, and its colors and zest for life, was exactly what I needed at a time when I was basically being shoved out of an abusive household to go to college, and I was cheering for Lillie SO hard through the entire plot. That plot line with her defying her abuser and deciding to change to her Z form, I felt like I was putting all my own lessons to the test with a protégé, and Exeggutor Island made me put a card of Z powered Lillie in my wallet. I have a distinct memory of reading about Brionne on the official site and deciding it was basically me at that time in pokemon form, and then seeing a meme comparing popplio and Brionne to Steven Universe, which was important to me at the time too. Being THE first champion of Alola was insane. A portal to the opposite game is wild after all the talk of ultra space. Lusamine going one winged angel was insane, even if we didn't get to battle her specifically in that form. I've always loved the moon and starry aesthetics so finally getting a sun and moon themed legendary pair was awesome. Ultra did weird things with the plot and tried a little too hard on the vibes, but I can't complain about getting to journey Alola again without losing my first save file. Early route Zorua is wild. Dusk lycanroc is my scary babby. Mantine surfing and wormhole jumping are so fun. Photo club is possibly my favorite feature in a pokemon game. Alola is an excellent place for my pokemon to roost after a journey across the DS generations.
the point you make here about how the switch to 3d (and the loss of abstraction) make the pokemon world smaller is so well articulated, really taps into something that ive felt but havent really been able to explain without falling back onto nostalgic terms.
Shame that the games lost their luster for you, though I can't say I don't understand it. Especially with how much this game likes to grind to a halt every five seconds. As for me, this gen is just plain special to me. It came at a rough time and was such a nice pick-me-up that it's hard for me to be super objective about it. I love Alola's roster, I love SM's story, and I fucking love how hard USUM was (I get it's a bit much, but I really love the kick in the teeth this game has). It's a shame there isn't a truly definitive version of the game, but Gen 7 is still up there as one of my favorite gens, right behind Gen 5. Not perfect, but I can't not love it.
The main thing I remember the most about Sun and Moon is how much the handholding annoyed me and how much I wished I just played as Lillie instead, with Kanto being the postgame...
Even though your final takeaway was negative, this made me appreciate gen 7 even more. Glad it was my final mainline entry before watching everything turn into a mudslide after E3 2019 that devolved into the absolute bilge that is current Pokémon. Rest in peace, Pokémon
Ultra sun and moon were the last time I enjoyed Pokemon as someone who has loved the games since I was 8 years old and played every game in the series, it had the perfect endgame for me the combination of the entire Pokemon catalogue, Mega forms and z moves made the battle tree such good fun and triple battles as well. The endgame features to hunt for legendaries were also fantastic . Ever since then pokemon has felt stripped back and incredibly lazy I just hope one day game freak bring these features in a complete package.
I didn't get to play Moon until the Summer of 2017, the Summer following its release, while working at a Summer camp. I did it in the time between cleaning the kitchen and food hall, which I spent doing whatever I wanted because I basically lived there every week I worked. It was absolutely magical
Literally had to get out of my chair and cheer as soon as I heard "character assassination of Lusamine". As someone who grew up with an abusive mother Lillie and Gladion as characters meant so much to me and I felt very seen and (at the risk of sounding saccharine) in a way seeing Lillie's growth helped urge me to keep growing as well and that I'm more than just an extension of the people who raised me. All the more reason that when I got to the Ultra games it really felt like the games had gone back to spit in my face as far as the narrative is concerned. And yeah Pokemon games don't have to have expert writing (even tho I much prefer when Pokemon has *good* writing... (cough cough SwSh)) this change just felt kinda nasty in a way and left a horrible taste in my mouth not for just the Ultra games but for Lusamine as a character.
Mmhmm. It's literally the worst, or at least second worst, character assassination I've seen in a videogame. It's weird when comparing to the anime, because the anime also wanted to tone down Lusamine but their method of doing things was to entirely change her personality and give her a different kind of conflict with her children. Better than what USUM did but the story is completely new and only lasts a few episodes if I'm honest. The thing is for me to be so worked up about Lusamine means I must've been invested in the first place. And I was! I was deeply invested in Sun and Moon. I don't think it's fair to judge Sun and Moon's story by the incompetent failure of the new director who stepped in to """fix""" the story in USUM. I genuinely believe some idiot thought sun and moon were too deep and ordered everyone to cut out the scenes they thought were boring.
King K, I'm glad you chose to make this video. I have a lot of the same issues with the Gen 7 games that you brought up. The Gen 7 games are some of my least favorite games in the franchise. I'm aware its considered a divisive opinion within the community, but these games just didn't do it for me.
Honestly still can't comprehend how GF manage to code this game so poorly that the system would chug to a single frame standstill when more than 2 pokemon happen to be on the battle screen. And I played Monster Hunter on the same system which was more graphically intensive and didn't have these same issues.
Obviously not the point of the video, but after learning more about how much space stations have been put on literal sacred mountains in Hawaii, I also find it interesting how much of sun and moon uses space as a motif. Anyways, thanks for sharing, King. This was the perfect watch for my morning.
I absolutely adore Sun and Moon. They introduced my absolute favorite pokemon in the Ultra Beasts, and I found the campaign really great. When they came out I was really blown away. And even with the luster of two generations later, I enjoyed my most recent playthrough. Guzzlord still remains my absolute favorite pokemon, and I'm forever fond of it and the generation. And yeah the ultra games are really sucky.
I’m sorry, there’s no way someone thinks Alola is small. The worst thing about completely the living dex is how many different places and small routes you have to go to to get all the different pokemon
KingK, your commentaries on the Pokémon games are ALWAYS excellent - I (im)patiently wait for them and celebrate when you upload them! All that being said, your commentary here is astoundingly good. The way you describe aspects of the games like the narrative, the transition to 3D, and the perspective of long-time fans of the series is almost academic in how analytical it is. The way you synthesize your thoughts is entertaining, interesting, and informative! Can’t wait to see SW/SH and especially L:A :)
Great video as always. Big Stormlight Archive fan. If you want more fantasy to read after (and haven't read them already lol), I recommend Wheel of Time and/or Realm of the Elderlings.
I agree with most of the video here, Sun and Moon had cool ideas and concepts throughout and tried some interesting things. I will say however, I’ve seen some videos recently about how much Pokémon ended up taking from the Other popular YoKai Watch games that came out around its release and it’s crazy just how many similarities in the new things that were taken from them. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Lillie should’ve been the main character here? I always thought that Lillie should’ve been the playable character, it feels absolutely awful being this stupid smiling doof throughout the game acting more like a camera with legs than an actual friend to the people who actually move the story and plot along. Like some scenes are real and have good writing and then there’s just you slightly in frame smiling and it destroys any semblance of good emotional cohesion lmao. And then the Ultra games just destroyed the story instead of taking a page from the much better ideas of Black and White 2 and just making it a better sequel. After learning about how the story drastically changed, I legit stopped playing Pokémon all together. Sun and Moon are the most new Pokémon games I’ve ever played. It’s kinda sad, but Pokémon has really fallen out of favor with me recently, I only really go back to play the older games now. But anyway, great review and well done.
I have felt the same with a lot of what you've said in regards to gen 7, except I felt all of this when USUM came out. I was going hard into the VGC scene at the time, so I needed to complete Ultra Sun in a timely manner to start playing VGC 2018 in January. It ended up being such a chore for me that, when I got through the first Guzma fight, I transferred my significantly higher leveled Decidueye from my Sun playthrough over just to finish the game and get access to Mega Evolution. I have never had any desire to do another playthrough of any Gen 7 game since, and I don't regret missing out on a more traditional one. That said, VGC 2018 is one of the best VGC formats ever so it was very much worth it. I managed to cut a Regional and qualify for Worlds that year.
That stormlight archive team building was so fun, I would very much appreciate a video talking about this amazing series!!! (btw i've always thought absol was the perfect representation for Szeth)
Truly wonderful video. I didn’t agree with every take, but the scripting was practically perfect. I personally will always love the OG Sun and Moon, and still lament that the Ultra games aren’t sequels to this day. I never played the latter, and hearing about the difficulty across the board plus the well-worn story issues, I’m sorry to say that I don’t feel like I missed out. I too like a little challenge, but I don’t play Pokèmon for brutal difficulty myself.
I absolutely hated this generation. Hated that they ditched the gyms. But most importantly I HAAAATE the lower stake bad guys that recent gens are leaning into. They don’t want to destroy the world anymore, they just want to…. Bully some nerd in high school…? Or something?
Your Sun and Moon video was the first video of yours I ever watched so it's kinda crazy seeing a video that's as much a retrospective on that as it is a retrospective on the games themselves. For me Sun and Moon suffers from the problem a lot of modern games suffer from these days (even outside of Pokémon) which is focusing way too much on creating a strong first impression at the cost of replayability. I remember loving these games the first time through. It was really cool to see a new Pokémon game focusing so much more on strong characters and bucking traditions, especially after X and Y felt so safe and unmemorable. Unfortunately, much like X and Y, once the main campaign was over I found there was very little to actually do in Alola afterwards. And unlike Gen 6, going back to replay this game is a real slog because of its focus on narrative. I'm really happy you brought up the problem with ride Pokémon and the region feeling so empty without any dungeons. People act like I'm crazy when I say BDSP are my favourite Pokémon games on the Switch but they're the only ones with that old philosophy of world design still in them and I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who misses them.
I get the criticisms of Sun and Moon but it's still my second favorite after Gen 5, even if I think it's very flawed. It's story had too many highs for me and I love a lot of the cast. It's still such a shame Ultra Sun and Moon had to ruin all of that . . . Gen 7 would have been so much better if they went the sequel route instead of updated rereleases.
Hearing you're a sanderson fan has made me love this channel even more. Ultra moon was the 3rd pokemon game i remember playing and was one that my 10 year old self frankly couldn't get through. I played it on and off for 3 years and still only actually beat ut once. The design is just so linear and forceful it bored me,however i think gen 8 has some of the best designs in the whole series almost every pokemon has a creative design
Based on that initial title, I'm really hoping this is more of a defense of Gen 7. It's my second favorite Gen, and while it is cutscene heavy, there are so many facets to the game that exceed that for me. (Plus, I really like the cast and story of Gen 7, for what it's worth.)
Gen 7 is in my top 3 of all time and I get that gameplay is broken up so much by dialog but damn if i don’t just love the region itself, it’s characters, and it’s mon so much.
Was very much dreading this video since the Console Pokemon retrospective. The tone he takes in that video felt so melancholy for games that are legitimately really cool and well liked by most of the fanbase.
Alright. I think maybe there was a failure on my part to accurately explain something.
My Ultra team is something I acknowledge in the video itself is suboptimal. Me struggling with them because of that is why I dropped the line "it's hard to talk about difficulty in these games."
Clearly, as the comments go to show, everyone had a completely different experience with the Ultra games. I've had comments saying the games are easy.
I did what I always do with these videos: examine the teams, decide whether I like them. You'll notice that I didn't ACTUALLY complain about Guzma or Plumeria. I simply said I died a lot.
The fights I DID complain about are the ones that felt overturned, like the totem bouts which can devolve into 2v1s, or Ultra Necrozma who is built like a freight train. I did so NOT because I struggled on them. In fact, I cheesed Ultra Necrozma in the video and still stated I'm not a fan of its difficulty philosophy.
I compared Araquanid to Wishiwashi for a reason, too. I did struggle with Wishiwashi quite a lot, using a much better team. But I enjoyed how the fight was designed MUCH more than Araquanid. That was the point of the section, I think USUM have really boring difficulty design.
I thought I explained that decently enough, but maybe something was lost there while I was making it. Either way, felt like I needed to clear that up.
Then again, maybe I'm just falling for 'git gud' bait.
I, for one, appreciate the fact that you decided to rep Stormlight!
Your picks were pretty great, too! In fact, I'm not sure if you've finished Rhythm of War by the time you uploaded this, but by the time you get to Wit's story in that book, that connection between Bagon's quest to become a dragon and Kaladin will hit all that much harder.
Anyway, life before death, Radiant
git gud, scrub
When I was a kid playing Pokemon Yellow for the first time, I skipped through text and didn't know how to use Pokeballs. I beat Brock a month later with an overleveled Pikachu before learning I can catch more. At the time I just thought I was meant to trek the world at a slow pace. All that to say, difficulty in Pokémon is going to entirely rely on the competency of the player.
In my experience, if one doesn't have Zoroark, they simply just lose to Ultra Necrozma. That thing oneshotted a Level 100 Entei in my party.
@@JsYTA This is the case in any Management game??
As somebody who adores Gen 7, the Ultra games' changes to Lusamine are one of the most baffling decisions in any Nintendo game. The confrontation between her and Lillie in Ultra Space is one of my favorite moments in any Nintendo game, and the Ultra games just... don't have it?
It's not just Lusamine's character assassination but taking away all of Lillie's moments is what kills USUM for me. They didn't even let her step one foot on Exeggutor Island in that game >_>
If they were going to change Lusamine, they should’ve gone all the way and changed up the story.
Like have Lusamine not act antagonistic and instead be a workaholic, sending Lillie and Gladion off with Nebby and Type: Null to do the Island Trial as to give herself more time to work on defending Alola from the Ultra Beasts who could perhaps act as bosses that you’d team up with the Totem Pokemon to defeat.
I adored Gen 7 too and love both SM and the ultra games but yea I don’t get why lusamine’s story has to be butchered. It’s a shame cuz the difficulty in USUM makes it really fun
Sun and Moon are definitely my favorite games in the entire series, but the existence of Ultra Sun and Moon drags the gen down enough to put it in 4th overall for me. Its gonna take a lot for a character to be ingrained in my mind as much as Lillie is. Such a cool character
So if I could only play one, which would you recommend, vanilla or Ultra?
Its also fun when you realize the Ultra Beasts are ALSO based on invasive species (mosquitoes, cockroaches, Bamboo, kudzu grass...)
What invasive species are the USUM UBs based on? Blaecphalon is a clown (sort of) and Stakataka is a wall (sort of.)
@@komarunaegi7460Maybe more human invasions? Like buildings and pollution from plastic, rubber, and maybe fire?
I'm guessing Blacephalon could be light and noise pollution, specifically fireworks. Large cities and their bright lights have been known to negativelt affect some species of wildlife.
Wasps in Naganadel’s case
One part of Team Skull that I think gets missed is that many of its members who felt the expectations of family to complete the island challenge, and failed. Even though their families would of course accept them back, they instead ran to fellow outcasts and formed Team Skull. In that regards, team skull is a found family that is hurting and easy to manipulate. They’re one of my favorite teams simply because they’re trying too hard, and they’re fun because of it
Hell, in Sun and Moon, it's implied that Lusamine exploited this aspect of Guzma to get him to do her bidding. He saw her as someone who showed her respect, unlike most other authority in the region because of his own history with paternal abuse. And because of that, he and the rest of Team Skull become pawns.
It's also entirely possible a lot of the parents wouldn't be so accepting of their children failing the challenge. The way Guzma yells at himself in third person when he loses *really* implies he was verbally abused as a child, and the broken and bent golf clubs in his parents house sure Paints A Picture. Guzma and Plumeria are really just trying to give people a community and home
@@Shinntoku Guzma is up there with N when it comes to Pokemon characters with disturbingly dark backstories.
@@PatManDX Not really implied, Plumeria straight up tells you that’s what happened when she confronts you on Poni Island and asks you to help save him.
@@Shinntoku I'm pretty sure how every adult that ever knows Guzma, and how they talk of him beforehand (as in before he made his team), tells that he wasn't verbally abused. More like tired of ending up short from getting first place, or not being first pick as a top honor student of any kind. Even more apparent with how he has all the Bug Z crystals, so no one else can have them.
As for the golf clubs, he's just destructive, and isn't happy about losing. Which is also shown at the Skull hideout, and his room. Not anything about abuse.
So yes, there was a picture, you just missed it by a lot.
Its not just the Ultra games... Even in the anime they toned down Lusamine to just being an overprotective but loving mother. Really spits in the face of the whole "overcoming an abusive parent" story arc with Lillie. :(
I mean eh...in the Ultra games she is still rather abusive at first really I don't see how it spits in the face of anything really.
Nope, this is bad reading comprehension very reductive. Lusamine is way more than just what you described and there is abuse in the anime. In fact, the anime expands on her character greatly, giving her so much more depth and nuance. She's super shallow in the games in comparison.
I noticed the anime got so toned down in general to the point that you don't even see Pokémon being captured until that wild Pokémon consents to being caught.
@@aknemesis5078I don't know if that's a bad thing. In a show where the pokemon are sentient creatures with their own distinct characters and character arcs, making them have agency over their capture makes much more sense. It makes for stronger stories and addresses an otherwise weird ethical problem. As far as I'm concerned the only reason it's not like that in the games is because it doesn't make as much sense in a monster collection game.
@@Pokemonleafmon That much I get, I just wonder if they made that change independently or just to appeal to a wider audience. Like how the blood got toned down in Dragon Ball.
Ive always loved these games and disagree on a lot of your points, but i very much agree on one: Ethan, please, you need to wake up. You've been in a coma for years. Your family misses you. I miss you, Ethan. We've been trying to reach out to you for so long. Please, wake up.
How old are you out of curiosity and what were your first pokemon games?
Ethan, please. We're all worried about you.
I can agree with the sentiment that if i were younger when i played these games, maybe i would’ve liked them more. But as a 17 year old at the time, the hand holdy nature and being forced to focus in the story was annoying.
@@elmuchacho3379 I was 13 when these games came out, played them when I was 16 and found SM to be a huge slog. Loved the story and characters, hated the execution of it. I pretty much agree with all of KinKs points
I'm sad Sun and Moon get roped in to that "modern Pokemon sucks" mentality. I find Alola has such an energy and passion that I don't find with XY or SwSh.
Yeah, Sun/ Moon has a unique vibe that you usually don’t get out of modern Pokémon. Since it’s obviously based on Hawaii, it has a bit of a laid back feel to it, which is one of my favorite aspects about it.
I think in general the whole "modern Pokemon sucks" mentality is silly when I think some of the most recent games have been some of the most exciting and refreshing in the series, don't get me wrong there are flaws to be found and some pretty big ones but games like Legends Arceus and Scarlet and Violet take the franchise in exciting new directions!
Yes, it truly feels like a place put together with care and not just random biomes next to each other (literally in the case of the last dlc for SV). Lillie is at least on the top 3 of written characters in the games and Hau's USUM arc is actually pretty neat unlike Hop in SwSh.
Just wait a few more years and people will come around.
I think it's fair for them to be grouped because the entire problem is that these games didn't have enough development time allocated to them. SM are no different in that regard. Me personally SM are some of the most difficult games to go back to because the pacing is so slow and many of the areas look the same. I've played through it twice, and despite that many Pokemon are favorites of mine and the story isn't horrible it's just hard to play on a moment to moment basis.
@@TheClhWarrior That is true. Especially since Sun/ Moon are fully 3D modeled, which require more time and work to make it more polished compared to pixel art.
People always say that they wished Pokemon had a higher difficulty... But that comes at a cost. If the game is too hard, you CAN'T just "use your favorites." If your favorites just happen to have too low of a BST, then tough luck, better get a stronger more viable team. :(
On the other hand though... Difficulty also leads to the most memorable moments. I don't remember much from my playthrough of Ultra Moon, but the thing I DO remember is _Ultra Necrozma._ I had to retry that fight multiple times, and ultimately I was only able to win thanks to my Golisopod switching out with Emergency Exit and getting a second chance to land a super-effective First Impression (this is why Golisopod is one of my favorite Pokemon of all time).
tbf there's definitely a fair balance of major fights loosing if you so much as look at them to hard and Drayano challenge mode fights. You don't need much, better coverage to counter common types, better variety of mons in teams, instead of a rock type gym leader with 2 geodudes, held items like basic healing berries. Stuff like that
"truly strong trainers must sometimes be prepared to choose pokemon that can win rather than their favorite pokemon"
- gigachad old man from ORAS
With enough grinding and X Items, most Pokémon can overcome almost any challenge.
Power of money baybee!
Don't get me wrong, I HATE ROACHES...
BUT, Golisopod's the GOAT 🐐
I think people are just asking for a noticeable sense of difficulty. Like the older games. Nobody is going to claim any of those games are insanely hard. Just that they have some encounters that can make you think. Newer pokemon games are so mind numbingly easy even a toddler could best these trainers first try.
Despite the very obvious flaws with this generation, I've come back to it more over the past eight years than I have any other generation in Pokemon. I think where they succeeded with atmosphere and vibes they kind of failed in other aspects like stagnant gameplay and a sort of aimless idea of what to do with this region. It's a shame they relied so heavily on that gen 1 nostalgia becuase there's so much cool stuff they could have done with the history and cultures of the Hawaiian islands
Sun and Moon is the epitome of a one-and-done game to me. I’ve seen so many people, including multiple friends of mine, say they really enjoyed their first playthrough of Sun and Moon, but found replaying it to be an absolute chore. There are plenty of games like that, but this is the most egregious case I’ve seen.
preach, same, i wonder if skipping cutscenes would help that, granted the game doesnt have a NG+ feature so thats impossible to give the game info of "yeah i beat the game before"
Genuinely, it's like a 9/10 that gets dragged down to a 6 from the devs not doing the bare minimum
The only pokemon game to date i have NOT replayed since release day, and the game that made me stop buying any new pokemon game :) i stay with gen 1 - 6
Shit games with 30 hours of dialogue and 10 hours of gameplay, right there at the bottom of the barrel with SWSH and SV
And then there's me, who has played all 4 games now lol
Dewpider and Araquanid were one of my favorite additions to Alola simply because they weren’t in the millions of promotional material that spoiled every new Pokémon.
Having that feeling of “wait… what is this?” when I encountered a Dewpider near the water trial is now always near and dear to my heart.
You can ignore promotional material you know, I do it all the time when I'm excited for a game/movie etc. I figure that stuff is to get new people interested, not me who is already a fan
Same here! Knew I had to add it to my team when I found it
@@blakeblanderson Sure, but it's important to understand that Gen 7 was the first (and last) time Game Freak decided to reveal literally *everything* before the release of the games. Seriously, there were like 5 Pokemon families, most of which were Ultra Beasts, that weren't revealed before the release of the games.
When I first heard the term "Ultra Beast" I thought it was the dumbest thing ever... But I've grown to really ADORE the concept of alien Pokemon from other dimensions. I dream of one day getting a game that takes place _in_ Ultra Space, like Legends Arceus except we get to explore the dimensions of the Ultra Beasts, with new Pokedex full of alien Pokemon... But I know it probably won't ever happen.
While that would be cool, I think they’re using legends games right now to finish up loose ends with older gens, so we probably won’t get a legends Alola game anytime soon. Maybe we could get a sequel or a new type of game instead
This would be rad as heck. The Ultra Beasts have always worked far better for me than gen 9's Paradox Pokemon because they feel far more unique and not ripping off potential design real estate for possible evolutions to older Pokemon
Play as a member of the Ultra Recon Squad either before or after the events of USUM, seeking out Pokemon from other dimensions to catalog and find ways to restore the environment of Ultramegaopolis's dimension after it was decimated by Necrozma. They should let you visit Alola and the other dimensions you can visit in the postgame of USUM. The Ultra Beasts fill the role of the boss battles. Wrap the story's themes around the dangers of trying to control nature and play God, even with the best of intentions (which was what caused the problem with Necrozma in the first place).
Doubt they'd ever make this game, especially since fleshing out those dimensions and would probably have to design a lot of new pokemon (or dimensional forms of existing ones) to make them feel like real places. But God I think it'd be pretty cool.
I mean, we never thought we'd explore ancient Sinoh in a semi-open environment setting where you can catch pokemon by sneaking up on them without even needing to battle, either. There's no way to know! I agree that a game set in the Ultra Space would be very cool.
As someone born and raised in Hawaii. I’m rather disappointed they didn’t make a Pokemon based off Hawaii’s state bird, the Nene. Maybe they could have like a regional variant of Quaquaval in a Legends game set in Alola.
Also, rise your hand if you were hoping they’d add new regional forms for the Ultra games.
As for the Ultra games, I think they should’ve went further with changing the story, like have Lusamine not act antagonistic. Why not have her be consumed by work to the point she sends off Lillie and Gladion with Nebby and Type Null to do the Island Trials as to not have them distract her. Maybe the trials have you and the Totem Pokemon team up against an Ultra Beast as well. Like imagine fighting Guzzlord alongside the Totem Kommo-O.
Hell maybe Team Skull were hired as bodyguards for Lillie and Gladion. Maybe the grunt fights are just them deciding to have some fun while on break.
I lived in Hawaii for a time and when I saw the Nene, I remember being told that they were endangered and I basically avoided them like the plague. Building a Pokemon around this would've been so cool, would have made more sense to make a regional bird out of it instead of the toucan
I wish I could visit Hawaii.
Imagine the type of garbage they will drop as an LEGENDS ALOLA GAME 😂😂😂
I wish they named a Pokemon after the state fish, the humuhumunukunukuāpuaʻa
personally i quite like that lusamine was the games' antagonist. i have a parent like her, and it made me feel weirdly seen to have a character like her in a video game. i am still a bit salty that they attributed her obsessions to Nihiligo's toxins in USUM. that's my opinion though. lusamine exists as a really unique character in the pokemon canon, so i'm pretty attached to her as a concept.
One of my favorite video games ever. Have an attachment to Ultra Moon especially because that was the last game my Grandpa bought me before he died a few years ago
Controversial take, but I prefer the Ultra games to the base SM games.
@@wikiuser92hate to break it to you but thats not a controversial opinion at all… base sun and moon is honestly a pretty bad game on the surface
@@wikiuser92Same. It takes everything great about Sun & Moon and adds to it. Like Mantine Surfing, Ultra Wormhole Traversal via the box legendaries, and a larger post game.
Ultra moon is the only pokemon game Ive 100% so yea I really love Gen 7
Ultra sun was the first Pokémon game I ever played and is still my favorite
It may not have landed with some of your audience, but I LIVED during the stormlight chapter. I pulled my kid over to show him the name of your bagon (due to his name, he gets called Kaladin a LOT) and was gonna go check the comments to see if anyone else caught it, then I was hit with fucking ART. Enjoy the end of oathbringer, enjoy the rhythms of war, and I'm looking forward to the retrospective when book 5 is out!
Journey before destination!
Its a shame you don't like Sun and Moon anymore. But hey, I'm sure the next generation will be great, right?
...Right?
It's impressive how hard gamefreak fumbled gen 8
Genuinely one of the most unmemorable pair of main series titles
For the millions of flaws gen 9 has I feel they are infinitely more interesting games
Gen 8 feels like a game where you play as a trainer going on their journey while there’s a character already out solving the problems you would need to take care of if they weren’t there, which ends up making it feels like nothing is happening… until the very end of the game when the game realizes that you’re supposed to be the main character solving all these problems and brings you back into the spotlight to help save the region.
hahaha......HahahaHahaha............ *HahAAhhahahaAhhaHAhAHAHahAHaHAAHahAH!!!!!!!!!*
Yep. Sword and Shield are great.
@@mintystingmoon4787 But at the same time, it's finally the adults taking responsibility, like they goddamn should. Which honestly can't say how irksome most of the times it is, when there's strong public figures like a Gym Leader or something, who's right there next to a big criminal event happening. And how none of them, nor the police, seem to go and arrest the bad guys (except for Looker).
I don't think I've ever simultaneously disagreed with, and loved a videoessay so much.
Base Sun and Moon are tied with gen 9 (I did not stutter. I know what I'm saying here lol) as my favorite Pokémon games, especially for the story and characters. A point of view you seem to understand very well, and even used to somewhat agree with when you made your old video. Said video was always one of my favorites on the game, for being one of the few that shared my sentiment on it. I fully acknowledge the flaws with Sun and Moon (acknowledging your favorite games' flaws is something you kinda have to do when three of them are Sonic Frontiers, Xenoblade 2, and Pokémon gen 9 lol), and I share in a lot of those frustrations, to some extent. I'd love it for gen 7 to have a "skip cutscene" button. I'd love a more demanding difficulty balance (something I actually like in Ultra, unlike you), Etc. But Sun and Moon are so meaningful to me, that these issues don't even register to me so strongly. Whenever I think of, or replay Sun and Moon I'm flooded by all the good feelings I have on this game. I'm reminded of the great characters, attention to detail, music, vibes. And to me, that's stronger than any flaws these games can have. My experience with learning English while getting into Pokémon, led me to-- for a while-- treat every game in the series as a capital J JRPG. As I replayed them, I came to realize how... understated the story is most other generations. Which only made my appreciation for gen 7 that much stronger.
A lot of the new things Alola introduced "in place" of the typical gym challenge, are indeed very similar to it, but the thing that makes them stand out to me, is how the game doesn't necessarily revolve around them, in the same way older gens did around the gyms. The trials are definitely *A* part of the story, and the main excuse for you to go on your journey, but the structure never feels subservient to them. The last island's lack of traditional trials actually works to the game's advantage, in this case. Since at that point, the story is fully committed to the Lusamine storyline. And THAT'S the game's true climax and focus, in the long-term. The characters and their relationships with each other and the player, are the main draw of Alola's campaign to me. Kukui's final battle isn't simply "another battle against a champion". Not because it's necessarily any different in structure than previous games, but because Kukui is a character that the player has gotten to know a lot better, and likely cares a whole lot more about than previous champions. It's a victory lap to close out an unforgettable journey. One that was made so meaningful not because of all the aspects it shares with the previous games, but because of the people you met, the places you saw, and the culture you experienced along the way.
In that sense, Alola IS NOT like most other Pokémon games-- being more comparable to your typical JRPG. It's closer a lower-stakes Final Fantasy than Pokemon Red & Blue. With that in mind, you should never, under any circumstances, try to replay these games multiple times in a short amount of time (which is part of the ultimate hipocrasy with the Ultra games, which you summarized pretty well in the video). Try replaying a Persona or Xeno game right after you beat it. Most of the time, that's not particularly fun. You just experienced this journey. It's fresh in your mind. You're just gonna have to sit through a buncha text and cutscenes you just saw. Much like these bigger, more story-focused RPGs, replays start making more sense when they're years apart. When you start to miss the world and characters, and you're able to re-experience it all with a different perspective.
I have a bit of a different take on the world design than you. Having replayed Alola in the past few years-- and in that playthrough, making sure to explore every nook and cranny of Alola-- I find that the region is not as stale as many make it out to be. While the change in artstyle makes the world design's shortcomings more apparent, Alola's still filled with optional areas and very thoughtful worldbuilding details. It may have veered away from the more labyrinthian design of the older games, in favor of something more realistic. But it makes up for it in making Alola feel more lived-in. Reading NPC dialogue, finding out where each of the major characters' houses are (and with that, getting a closer look at their personal lives), finding some incidental part of Alola-- like a graveyard or a cave-- all give the region its own flair. One that's different from the older games', but that makes itself memorable not purely through static game design, but through more hard-to-grasp, "artistic" aspects, such as worldbuilding and art design. Hau'oli City is one of favorite areas in gaming, because it's somewhere I'd just love to visit in real life. The lack of abstraction, with gen 7's less exaggerated proportions help a lot with that. I'll admit my bias towards tropical settings definitely shows here, but my point still stands.
I'd say Sun and Moon still feels adventurous to me, in the same way exploring a real-life city or hiking trail is. Sure, the roads might be somewhat defined, but it's about taking in the sights and relishing in the cool little detours.
I apologize for the long comment, but your video really got me excited to talk about gen 7 again. It inspired me to make a video sharing my own thoughts on Sun and Moon more in-depth. So, thanks for the great work, as always! :D
Inspiring others to share their story is what I like to think this channel is all about. Or, at least, what I want it to be about. Thanks so much!
This comment rocks! It totally sums up my feelings on the region too :]
This is the epitome of "a 7/10 is a 10/10 for a particular palette" i can count how much media that meant the world to me but the general consensus is that its 'mid', if it resonates with you, REALLY RESONATES... Thats irreplaceable
@@aokyoutsuki7744 100%. Art is subjective. I personally had to drop Gen9 because I was so uninterested, but truly one person's trash is another's treasure
PREACH, thank you for summarizing all my thoughts. I played SuMo when it first came out, and only recently played Ultra, and I had a great time revising it! People give these games way too much flak.
Gosh what a depressing ending. For something to be your favorite to not at all is heartbreaking from my perspective. I suppose it's more because it's something I personally fear when it should be celebrated. Tastes change as we grow as people and the context of the time is definitely an important factor as you stated. While I don't expect you to cover the switch games for a long time if at all I'd certainly be interested if you ever do. Moreso scarlet and violet as I feel there's more to discuss than sword and shield but you've surprised me before so I could be completely wrong 😅. Thanks for the vid and I hope YOU have fun today
It really does suck having your favorite games loose their appeal to you. Seeing stuff about Splatoon 3 ending recently made me a bit miffed that I didn't enjoy it enough to stick around. Things went from Splatoon 2 being a game I spent so much time playing and getting good at to getting tired of Splatoon 3 after a month. That's not to mention the various childhood games I can't stomach anymore.
All that losing a favorite means is that you gained a new one.
@@sammcgarry5822 very true. But this kind of thing is why I don't replay some games. I don't want to tarnish that first golden experience
@@xemiii Right there with you regarding Splatoon. I loved Splatoon 1, and loved Splatoon 2 even more, but was disappointed with Splatoon 3. I hope the fourth game is more of a return to form, but there's no guarantee that'll happen. I may never love Splatoon ever again in the same way I loved it years ago.
He was 17 when the game came out. Younger people today think the current thing is always the best
Then they get hit with reality when they get older
Another aspect of Lusamine's original character is in how she manipulated Guzma, who himself was a victim of parental abuse, meaning that Guzma essentially just ran away one abuser, right into the arms of another.
I don't think it would've been impossible to have Lusamine take a path of redemption after being defeated in Ultra Space, but Gamefreak took the cowardly approach of just retconning her abusive nature altogether, which at the same time suggests their message is there's no such thing as redemption or second chances, which contradicts their approach to Teams Aqua and Magma, and Silver.
Team Skull were such an interesting Team, but I think they fumbled the ending for them. The idea was that they felt like outcasts and failures, unable to reach their dreams or not fitting in with the island's culture, and they were so desperate they banded together and formed this gang where they could belong. Then you beat the game and it turns out they've disbanded because its members were able to simply go back to their lives and live out their dreams, no problem, and the islanders just forgave and forgot everything with no issue. No fallout or long road to recovery, literally just "Oh turns out Team Skull's issues never actually existed at all so they just stopped acting up". Sun and Moon is really against the idea of redemption arcs, or addressing the nuances of what makes people rebel against the system.
Also Plumeria is a character I'll never understand how she got as popular as she did. Her design is cool, but her part in the story is so generic I even forget she exists half the time. She's literally just a Team Skull Admin who happens to have a name, she doesn't really do anything other than show up sometimes to be a boss battle.
Pokemon changed for the worse when it went 3D with X&Y. You are totally right, exploration is totally gone. That was what was most fun as a kid. Going somewhere you shouldn't with escape ropes and lots of potions and trying to find that mystical mewtwo. All gone now, you find legendaries like candy and they are just standing there.
These games are interesting to talk about. At launch, I was over the moon about how much they shook up the formula and how passionate their story was. To this day, I think the last quarter of the original games is among the most touching segments of any game I played, and it pairs really well with the tropical setting and otherworldly subtext. Then eight years passed, and I started to change the things I value, realizing that stories have a reduced impact on subsequent playthroughs, that the island challenge's difficulty and novelty wore off when later generations ended up just reverting to Gyms, and that Alola's map layout and relative lack of features were always underwhelming and the chief factors that caused me to focus more on other entries. All this being said, I still appreciate the games' positives and wish more entries would simply adopt them alongside the other things I look for. (Also, shout out for the Primarina, Lurantis, and Oricorio team. I used those three the first time I played and they're some of my favorites.)
I really appreciate the accoutability and also artistic merit of using your past review and sentiments as the interstitial material in this review. It adds a lot of depth and validity to the video. Opinions can change over time; that’s part of what growing up is about. (See? That’s one of the themes of the video!)
I think this is the generation that really opened my eyes to the fact that pokémon fans really dont know what they want.
It already started with gen 5. Before it released people wanted a fresh pokémon game. They soft rebooted the franchise and people complained about "but muh charizard". With these being the worst selling pair of games at the time. (I'm aware that a lot of fans loved these already at release, but the general fanbase didnt)
Then people wanted a 3D game, X and Y release and people complain about the 3D models, bad movement and how much of a step-down it was after B2W2.
Then people wanted more story focus. Sun and Moon release and people... complain about cutscenes and text mashing? Its actually pretty sad too because Sun and Moon have some of the more intriguing story lines.
And i dont think i even have to mention the "we want open world" debacl that was SV.
To be quite honest, i personally think that SM and USUM are up there as some of the better pokémon games. But i can't fault anyone for disliking them.
I kind of agree but I think some of those complaints are reasonable and there's so many Pokemon fans that I think saying that they don't know what they want isn't completely fair.
A soft reboot was a good idea but it was always gonna be risky since lots of people stick to using their favourites. I love Gen 5 but most of the dex is average to me.
The 3D models were cool but they didn't feel as lively as the moving sprites especially with some of the flying/floating Pokemon.
I never minded the cutscenes in SM.
SV are technically open world but without level scaling you can't do your own thing without risking getting stomped or being overlevelled.
While I do agree with your initial position, I’m not sure if these examples are entirely fair. Because most of the fan complaints after B/W are mostly just because of things being implemented badly (whether through bad decisions or legitimate logistical constraints) rather than because they didn’t like what they asked for.
Like, I think the fan base absolutely loves the open world in scarlet and violet (I definitely do). The complaints about those games are instead related to its technical issues and lack of level scaling, which is a separate issue.
And in the case of sun and moon, people do like the story it tells- just not the WAY it is told. Sun and moon could have had the best story in the world, and it still would have been largely ruined by the way that they tried to integrate it into a Pokémon game (especially in subsequent playthroughs). So people leave the games dissatisfied, only remembering the extremely long constant cutscenes, rather than the story itself. This is one of the things Scarlet and Violet is best at- the stories are both compelling and also told in a comparatively minimally intrusive way.
SM would be beloved if it wasn't for the absolutely terrible pacing. Additionally, I unfortunately think the way that maps are created and filled out in 3D will make it so those games are never as fondly remembered as the 2D ones.
I think alot of people also didn't have a realistic grasp on the switches capabilities, regarding the SV open world.
Because I too think the open world is great. But I also understand that you can't expect a super detailed open world on a platform that quite frankly has grandfather hardware at this point.
I've seen plenty of those old fan made "if pokémon was openworld" videos where people in the comments are saying that SV should've been like that instead, completely ignoring the fact that the switch couldn't handle games of that detail.
And yes, I did very much generalise with my points because its does fit the shoe of the general fanbase. Of course its more nuanced than that. But at the same time I can't just say "Hey that one very specific group thinks otherwise so that's the point I will make" because that would be quite nitpicky and disingenuous.
@@tigrexkiller1548this ain't the switch's fault, game freak are simply incompetent, other large open world games look and run better on the switch
Also UltraSun&Moon are the only games with a BUNCH of side quests in every town
Ultra Necrozma is such a strange "difficulty spike" in my experience. When I encountered it for the first time, my team was mid level 50s and every single member of my team got super-effective one shot. After hours of grinding on Poni Canyon Pokemon to get everyone to level 60, next attempt I just one shot no crit it with Decidueye's Z-Move.
My only real complaint with Sun/Moon is the ridiculous, egregious levels of handholding, stopping you far too often to go over basic stuff. But I really love this cast, this region, this OST, the new Pokemon, regional forms, the fact everyone can use a Z-crystal compared to Mega Stones, zooming around on Tauros, the showdown with Lusamine, and the postgame Looker questline.
Why on earth Game Freak traded in one of their strongest, most original plot beats for another rampaging legendary in USUM is beyond me. Denying Lillie her resolution is a crime, especially since all we get to explore of Ultra Megalopolis is one street and a tower. The peek into other dimensions is sorta neat, and I liked the Necrozma fight, but it needed more time in the oven.
Also idk, I thought Mantine Surf was one of Pokemon's better minigames. Didn't expect to enjoy that as much as I did.
Rainbow Rocket was fine, hard to complain about more Guzma, but as one of the nine Anabel fans out there, I liked base Sun/Moon's postgame more. The Looker stuff was really neat, and we got more Nanu.
All it needs is a skip button for tutorials (cutscenes in general if you like) and Alola would be my favorite games
@@tigrexkiller1548and tbf, if it wasn't for the handholding, Sword and Shield would be way better than they are as well
I have the same problem with Mario & Luigi: Dream Team. The tutorials are obnoxious and you can't even skip them, there's an good number of padding that you have to do in order to proceed without given an option and the battles are so slow.
Justice for Anabel!
It has taken me a while to start watching this video because watching your videos is a sacred event in my mind and I need to be in just the right space to give it the attention it deserves 🙏
30:35 well that came out of nowehre for me. I'm a huge Brandon Sanderson fan so suddenly my ears pricked up as I was reading some other articles with this in the background
Life Before Death!!!
Strength Before Weakness
(Also I have a bridge four tattoo, that's how much I adore those books)
Journey before Destination
Airsick lowlanders!!
I'm someone who went through possibly the complete opposite experience when it comes to Gen 7. I wasn't a fan of the games when they came out, and it wasn't until I revisited them right before the release of Scarlet and Violet where I really grew to appreciate them, especially the Ultra games. I personally disagree with a lot of your points, but you did make me look at these games in a different way, specifically in terms of the story and difficulty. People have told me that USUM isn't as good as SM because of the story changes. I kinda brushed them off when they said that, but hearing you ACTUALLY explain WHY the changes in the story negatively effected the game really did open my eyes and I now have a better understanding of why people hold that opinion.
I do want to point out a common misconception you mentioned that I noticed at 48:00. You actually CAN catch Nebby before you beat the game. Lillie and Nebby appear at Mahalo Trail after you defeat Ilima for Mina's Trial. You can catch Solgaleo/Lunala and use it for the Totem Ribombee, Hapu's Grand Trial, and the Pokemon League. I don't blame you for missing this, since the game doesn't really tell you that you can do this and it happens at a pretty random time. I don't know why you can't just catch it at the Altar of the Sunne/Moone after the climax like in SM. It seems like an unnecessary change.
Other than that, I really enjoyed this video. I'm looking forward the Sword and Shield Retrospective if you decide to make one. I remember you saying in an old video that you are a defender of SwSh, so I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts on the game and whether and not your opinions have changed since making that statement. Regardless, I look forward to seeing whatever video you make next, regardless of if it's Pokémon or not!
I really loved Sun and Moon a lot. Gen 7 also just has some of the best Pokemon designs tbh
I love gen 7. Gen 6 is almost impossible to replay. 7 has so much charm and polish. There’s a hack for ultra moon called prismatic moon that is one of the best ever made imo
Oooo, I finished a replay of Moon not too long ago. Honestly, its neck and neck with Black 2 and White 2 for my favorite games in the franchise.
ya gen 7 is up there. for me its usum fighting platinum for 2nd
After here
It's all downhill from here😊
The worldbuilding, lore, characters, story, music, designs, and overall vibe of the Alola games make them the best in the series to me
Definitely agree about these games having negative replay value. I really enjoyed my first Moon playthrough, but then getting USUM only one year later I just felt insulted as a consumer when I realized they literally sold us 80% the same game, instead of at least a sequel. Platinum at least had a two year gap, with way more improvements made. I still haven't gone back and beaten USUM, I think I'm still on the second island. I just don't wanna drag through the unskippable cutscenes that I've mostly already seen before, or all the handholding.
This was the Pokémon generation that brought me back the good old days of Gen 1-4. Thanks so much for making another great retrospective!
You have Yo-Kai Watch to thank for Sun and Moon trying so much harder than XY after Yo-Kai Watch 2 outsold ORAS in Japan. Almost every feature from Sun and Moon comes off as a shallow attempt at implementing Yo-Kai Watch features.
Never knew that! What features from yo kai watch were copied
@@christofu148 if i were to assume, z-moves are kinda like soultimates from yo-kai watch for example
@@christofu148 Totem Pokemon, Z-Moves, Rotom Dex, Island Scan QR Codes, Z-Move poses, that camera minigame and you can easily argue Alolan forms were their take on Merikan Yo-Kai.
why yo kai watch is the GOAT
@@DrCoeloCephalo i seeeeeeeee
For me gen 7 is my favorite because of the detail they put into the new Pokemon and regional variants, as you so wonderfully explained in this video. Yungoose resembling a certain president while being an invasive species, AND this game dropped in November 2016? To me that’s impeccable world building 😭
Also mimikyu is peak. That’s my little pookie, I would defend it with my life.
Also on a personal note, I met my partner back in high school literally 8 years ago because we were both so excited for s&m and would watch the trailers together after school 😭🫶🏽 we’ve been best friends ever since, and we just hit our 2 year anniversary 🥹
These games will always be special to me even if I am a filthy casual dammit!
Oh boy here we go
I really wish Gen 7 wasn't so flawed, because despite the egregious amount of cutscenes, I find the gameplay to be some of the best in the series. Nuzlocking the games blind were some of the most memorable moments I had with Pokemon.
These games really need a, "I've played this game before, let me skip the cut scenes already" mode, lol.
@@dogishappy0 Seriously. It's so frustrating that it's apparently impossible to remove the cutscenes with modding (or if it is possible, that nobody's actually done it yet)
My biggest problem is all the railroading. You literally cannot wander even a single inch off the critical path. There will always be a closed gate, an npc with pokemon inexplicably blocking the path or just some dude going "whoa there who do you think you are wandering off the main path, get back on there and go to your map marker." Its way worse in USUM.
Replaying Ultra Moon I was so unbelievably mad that they took out Lillie standing up against her mother. It was so inspiring to a younger me who played Sun as a child and who HAD parents like Lusamine. Parents who would throw fits like children or not let me pick out my own clothes till practically freshmen year. Her standing up to Lusamine defined her character growth, and throwing it all away in the Ultra remakes hurt my soul
OH not to mention, and doing a Nuzlocke on this run btw, ARAQUANID AND LURANTIS CAN DIE. DIE DIE DIE
I remember bailing out of pokemon after X and Y and skiped Sun and Moon. It wasn't until last year where I gave the game a proper shot.
Honestly, while my chat and call kept talking about how much things made them mad about the games. I found myself enjoying them in a way modern Pokemon hasen't been able to hook me in at all.
To quickly talk gameplay
I liked improvements such as the ride pokemon replacing HMs as I never liked the idea of HMs from day one just to have pokemon fillings spots just to do context actions. I just rather have the train have the powers themselves which the games do. I can get the complaint about Z moves taking up time. And yes they do, I found them honestly more intresting than other gimicks as other trainers could pull them out whenever and could be any type of move making you need to adapt on the fly and not be in auto pilot when in battle.
But the thing for me was the fact that Sun and Moon maybe even more so than Black and White, did have that ephasis on story. I feel as I have grown older, Pokemon hasn't done much for me as my RPG catalog has grown. I learn to love character focused stories where they grow interact with others and go through proper arcs. Something that honestly, most games in the Pokemon franchise just don't acomplish. Many of the cats feel interchangable from rivals, to teams and thier leaders. They still do have the feel of "babies first RPG"that feel afraid to really dive into characters and give them true pesonalities or goals outside of conquer the world or become champion.
The story of Lilie, her family, and the island felt like one of the first times in the franchise that the champion and team plot was secondary to the REAL plot of the game and that kept me far more engaged in what was happening and characters actually devlop in the story in more than just battling. It had a story and characters it actually wanted to tell that didn't just feel like it was going through the motions. Pokemon for most of it's life I feel has been afraid to actually being an RPG if that makes sense. Like it really will just go through the motions it needs to, swap some characters here and there and call it a day. Sun and Moon felt like more than that to me and thus managed to keep me around when I found myself not beeing mentally locked into what was happening. Even Pokemon Violet while trying to do something similar, I think missed the mark because It does still feel stuck in the same placeholder mentality.
I get it the cutscenes can get into the way and it can feel slow. But It ironically doesn't feel as slow to me as previous or future games because I actually care about the story and it doesn't feel like I'm just checking things off a list.
I like that Sun and Moon feel like actual RPGs and not Pokemon games.
And I wish more of the series felt like that.
Gen 7 as a whole was my favorite generation until recently. It's still in my top 3. I can't say which one is my number 1 favorite because then I'll get crucified by the internet so I'll just leave it at that.
I hate generational wars with Pokémon and how toxic Pokemon fans can be when someone mentions an unpopular opinion, coming from someone who experienced this when Gen 5 was unpopular (my favorite Gen).
The only really “horrible” take you can have is saying SWSH is your favourite and even so it’s just an opinion and is totally legitimate to have
@@JTtheOctolingPeople always need to justify their opinion and argue because then they feel “right”. If a generation is special to you, then fuck the rest. I may never feel a lot of love towards the generations that came after 5 but if someone else loves X/Y then who am I to say they shouldn’t. People love to objectify the subjective because they’re in denial.
Is it Galar? Galar has massively grown on me too, to be fair. People just remember the tree and dexit. Personally love those games lol
@@imbored1179 I find mainline Gen 8 to be incredible, and I've been playing since Gen 3. Both BDSP and SwSh.
Something about SwSh's pacing made me replay it 5 times. It's so snappy, has the right amount of challenge in Gyms, camping is great, the Wild Area variety opens up teambuilding to an incredible degree really early on, excellent new additions...
I'm not crazy enough to deny all the flaws people have rightfully pointed out, but as for me? Sans the unfinished story and some raids, it's one of my favourite Pokémon games, near Platinum, Emerald and BDSP (yes, really).
Haven't enjoyed S/V nearly as much. They steal X/Y's "Most Unfinished Game" to me. The complete lack of Battle Tower made me not buy the DLC, it feels like there's something lacking (as one who doesn't like playing online). First game that introduced a whole batch of new mons that I can't truly battle with, being the paradoxes.
Edit: Even in the base game, SwSh had a really good Battle Tower, which by itself nearly doubled my main campaign playtime
Honestly, I really enjoy moon, great setting, characters, ost, new mon
I disagree that Alola does not have optional distractions for players. Ten Carat Hill, Kala’e Bay, Blush Mountain, and Haina Desert are among these optional areas, so I don’t really think you can claim Gen 5 somehow has more experiences off of its linear path. Routes still have multiple pathways and special mini boss fights with rewards for beating all trainers. There’s still side quests in games in cities to do for special items, ones that cannot be found without exploration of Alola as a place and as something beyond just hallways.
That's fair enough. Those areas are nothing burgers to me, but I suppose they do exist.
i think its a matter of some people having a minimum quota for the route complexity. for me gen 2 is the minimum, with gen 1 and base 8 thoroughly lacking. 7 did a good job for me, and i think its overall up there.
edit: i also think its hard to recognize the complexity that does exist in alola due to how the game railroads you. that’s also why the dialogue is so frequent. the player isnt allowed to break off and do something else. there’s exploration to be had but you’re not allowed to until the story progresses. gotta be really my only issue with this gen.
Not to mention all the charming little interactions you can have with NPCs, like the two Team Skull Grunts fighting about one wearing the others shirt or the girl with her Sandyghast on the black sand beach.
Actually, one thing I do think Ultra Sun and Moon improved on over the originals is the amount of side content. USUM are the first games in the series to have an abundance of full fledged sidequests that pop up occasionally over the course of the game. My favorites being the haunted trainer school and Imposter Ditto gang. The latter is especially cool because those Ditto had really nice IVs for training
@@KingKlonoa I think there’s some really valuable stuff there you’re ignoring there - Z-Crystals, rare Pokemon like Rockruff or Bagon (you mentioned searching for 2 hours - the chance at Kala’e Bay is 10x that of Route 3’s), and in Haina Desert’s case, both a Z-Crystal AND an entire Legendary in Tapu Bulu.
Blush Mountain is the only one of these areas I’d say is too small to matter, but there’s still Pokemon there that you can’t find anywhere else. Not all Pokemon games meet this criteria with their optional areas.
I kinda wish that in Gen 7, we could see Lillie develop more as a character. It would be awesome to see her use the Mascot Legendary (evolved from Nebby) against the player.
Gen 7 shook up the formula and did so well with characters. Lillie is great, the designs are amazing and it feels the most wanting to highlight how a culture in the real world is beautiful. And also the Elite Four and League not existing was so cool.
I personally don’t care about the long cutscenes I’ve played the games 3 times each and it’s not a burden for me personally
This Gen having a pretty distinct split rather than addition to the story or pacing also was refreshing to me, some things hit not as hard, but parallels it. Lusamine in SM is so much explicitly abusive with less resolution. But in the anime, USUM, and the mobile spin off, she acts so so much more supportive but also harms her kids because she is worried she’s hurting them again. And it just is a powerful dynamic I’m glad they included even if they stepped on characterization.
Idk I just love Gen 7, not as much as 5 but 5 is peak
I totally agree!
Finally glad somebody agrees with me on Lusamine
OH FUCK YEA! the legend is back ! with my favorite pokemon game no less! alola is so cozy and warm and pretty
Still my favorite pokemon gen, SM has my favorite story but USUM just has the best overall difficulty of any pokemon game
I love Gen 7 but most of it came from the music, the story, and the Pokémon and frankly I worry about ever replaying it due to the same reasons you listed for falling out of love with it. One small aspect you didn’t touch on were the competitive changes game freak implemented in these games. Relevant ones like confusion being a 1/3 chance, electric types being unable to be paralyzed, and many stat increases to different older Pokémon, including masquerain. Just figured it was worth mentioning since you brought up your confusion strategies and struggling against that mon in particular. Love these videos tho, saves me the time of replaying each of these games fully.
POV: Its 2016 and you are even after over 10 years still at the top of the formerly biggest Pokémon Forum on the web, 3 years after Gen 6 and you have become a more or less respected IT Admin/Moderator/Forum Member compared to the release period of X&Y, you relentlessly try to keep the Community together well into the Reddit and Post-Webforum era of the internet but its clear that the _golden days_ of the forum are long over. The off topic threads are more barren than ever and it seems like Generation Z isnt present on the website at all.
Gen 7 comes and goes and its release period is just not at all comparable to say the release days of B&W which is still remembered as "The Great Shut down" by forum elders. But there are so many more important things in the world than Pokemon to you at this point, this whole 2016 US election is kind of scaring you so you go out and do activism, because its simply a more productive use of your time...
*The Sad Pokémon Forum Moderator chronicles*
2003: ua-cam.com/video/aM7s-ivZMyw/v-deo.html&lc=UgwP7nfjbiF5jzxX_kV4AaABAg
2006: ua-cam.com/video/6HWJH8TS6eQ/v-deo.html&lc=Ugx7bc1f3T2-DZftsrZ4AaABAg
2011: ua-cam.com/video/yWZTMhjBSmM/v-deo.html&lc=Ugz7u2Stodq3li9g6VB4AaABAg
2012: ua-cam.com/video/6aBKea_Ko9w/v-deo.html&lc=Ugyq41l9VLqVebEvb0p4AaABAg
2013: ua-cam.com/video/IFA-_RKuJfg/v-deo.html&lc=UgyiHdCBQcs45zGDK1x4AaABAg
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45:10 Were excusing parental abuse with this one🗣🗣
53:05 Imagine there would have been a Honolulu type city where you would have to dodge traffic to get across town😭😭
Gen 7 is my second favorite Gen, right behind Gen 5 (played White 2 and Ultra Sun). All the alien/extradimentional Pokémon are peak designs and their plot was my favorite part of Alola. (Necrozma and it’s forms are top tier legendary Pokémon)
If only we could use Naganadel in SV 😭
Dude I’ve had an awful week (last week) and I’m glad you posted this man. Hope you’re well and for everyone struggling it gets better guys much love ❤
11:56 shoutouts
I believe the reason why Hau was the 'Champion' fight in USUM was to come full circle for the handheld Pokemon games.
In gen 1 the entire 'story' if there even is one. is you bickering with your rival with the final fight being you beating them after they became champion. In USUM you are Blue/Gary/Whatever while Hau is the challenger, only difference is you beat him instead.
It's no peak story telling and it's not better than the Kukui fight (fighting the proffesor who's litteral job is researching moves and battles is sick). but I see what they were going for and I personal can appreicate it especially for something different between the 2 games.
Also USUM's credits are litterally a replica of the HQSS credits with the animated pokemon sprites along the boarders of the screen with the credits in the center. So I have a feeling the devs wanting a more sentimental vibe with the ending, calling back to other handheld games while knowing that Pokemon would go to the switch next year. Marking an end of an era, with main line Pokemon games being only purely handheld experiences.
This dosen't redeem them butchering Lusamine and all that but I get it. Also get good scrub USUM is not that hard! 😎, JK good video. 👍
Loved how instead of using commercials like you normally do you used an old video of yours to frame this one, that was a really cool touch
Gen 7 in general is just far and away my least favourite gen as someone who's played since the start and still enjoyed every other gen. One day I hope to escape my prejudices
I always think it’s funny how Mimikyu wants to imitate Pikachus to be as beloved as them. And yet, years ago Mimikyu became like the third most popular Pokémon. Way more popular than Pikachu.
So in the end, Mimikyu did win.
Sun/Moon is probably my favorite game in the series but it's definitely not a very replayable one. It's excellent for that moment in 2016 to experience the best Pokémon storytelling the 3DS can offer with all of the cool new mons and a more immersive and cinematic overworld, but it's not conducive to reruns and the linearity feels limiting instead of focused when you're not engrossed in following the story path fresh.
This also feels like it's sorta hitting a Sonic Colors situation where people retroactively look at it worse because of the later sequel after the novelty wore off on superior hardware that doesn't improve on anything, makes the shortcomings even more glaring, and makes people think the developers didn't care (Sonic Forces / Pokémon Sword & Shield).
Either way I'll never agree with people that say Pokémon doesn't work in 3D (that always felt like targeting a symptom instead of a cause) because for this one window in time, for the last mainline new game to come out on a portable console, it *did* work, if for a little while.
Love the stormlight chapter. Life before death, radiant!
Yknow what nah. I'm gonna ramble just a little about how much i love these games. The fan community at the time of the lead up to release was amazing. The welcoming atmosphere of Moon Alola, and its colors and zest for life, was exactly what I needed at a time when I was basically being shoved out of an abusive household to go to college, and I was cheering for Lillie SO hard through the entire plot. That plot line with her defying her abuser and deciding to change to her Z form, I felt like I was putting all my own lessons to the test with a protégé, and Exeggutor Island made me put a card of Z powered Lillie in my wallet. I have a distinct memory of reading about Brionne on the official site and deciding it was basically me at that time in pokemon form, and then seeing a meme comparing popplio and Brionne to Steven Universe, which was important to me at the time too. Being THE first champion of Alola was insane. A portal to the opposite game is wild after all the talk of ultra space. Lusamine going one winged angel was insane, even if we didn't get to battle her specifically in that form. I've always loved the moon and starry aesthetics so finally getting a sun and moon themed legendary pair was awesome. Ultra did weird things with the plot and tried a little too hard on the vibes, but I can't complain about getting to journey Alola again without losing my first save file. Early route Zorua is wild. Dusk lycanroc is my scary babby. Mantine surfing and wormhole jumping are so fun. Photo club is possibly my favorite feature in a pokemon game. Alola is an excellent place for my pokemon to roost after a journey across the DS generations.
Whoa stormlight mentioned. Peak fantasy series. Would love to see your thoughts on the books
I remember nuzlocking ultra sun and it was probably the hardest game in the series. It definitely made me a better player.
the point you make here about how the switch to 3d (and the loss of abstraction) make the pokemon world smaller is so well articulated, really taps into something that ive felt but havent really been able to explain without falling back onto nostalgic terms.
54:25 I’m interested in hearing about your opinion of Xenoblade 3
Every time you showed a clip of your younger self gushing about the games I felt like I was watching Ice King’s video diaries
Shame that the games lost their luster for you, though I can't say I don't understand it. Especially with how much this game likes to grind to a halt every five seconds.
As for me, this gen is just plain special to me. It came at a rough time and was such a nice pick-me-up that it's hard for me to be super objective about it. I love Alola's roster, I love SM's story, and I fucking love how hard USUM was (I get it's a bit much, but I really love the kick in the teeth this game has). It's a shame there isn't a truly definitive version of the game, but Gen 7 is still up there as one of my favorite gens, right behind Gen 5. Not perfect, but I can't not love it.
The main thing I remember the most about Sun and Moon is how much the handholding annoyed me and how much I wished I just played as Lillie instead, with Kanto being the postgame...
ive been searching all over YT for this retrospective and you dropped in in perfect time❤️ true god send
Even though your final takeaway was negative, this made me appreciate gen 7 even more. Glad it was my final mainline entry before watching everything turn into a mudslide after E3 2019 that devolved into the absolute bilge that is current Pokémon. Rest in peace, Pokémon
Ultra sun and moon were the last time I enjoyed Pokemon as someone who has loved the games since I was 8 years old and played every game in the series, it had the perfect endgame for me the combination of the entire Pokemon catalogue, Mega forms and z moves made the battle tree such good fun and triple battles as well. The endgame features to hunt for legendaries were also fantastic . Ever since then pokemon has felt stripped back and incredibly lazy I just hope one day game freak bring these features in a complete package.
I didn't get to play Moon until the Summer of 2017, the Summer following its release, while working at a Summer camp. I did it in the time between cleaning the kitchen and food hall, which I spent doing whatever I wanted because I basically lived there every week I worked. It was absolutely magical
Literally had to get out of my chair and cheer as soon as I heard "character assassination of Lusamine". As someone who grew up with an abusive mother Lillie and Gladion as characters meant so much to me and I felt very seen and (at the risk of sounding saccharine) in a way seeing Lillie's growth helped urge me to keep growing as well and that I'm more than just an extension of the people who raised me. All the more reason that when I got to the Ultra games it really felt like the games had gone back to spit in my face as far as the narrative is concerned. And yeah Pokemon games don't have to have expert writing (even tho I much prefer when Pokemon has *good* writing... (cough cough SwSh)) this change just felt kinda nasty in a way and left a horrible taste in my mouth not for just the Ultra games but for Lusamine as a character.
Mmhmm. It's literally the worst, or at least second worst, character assassination I've seen in a videogame.
It's weird when comparing to the anime, because the anime also wanted to tone down Lusamine but their method of doing things was to entirely change her personality and give her a different kind of conflict with her children. Better than what USUM did but the story is completely new and only lasts a few episodes if I'm honest.
The thing is for me to be so worked up about Lusamine means I must've been invested in the first place. And I was! I was deeply invested in Sun and Moon. I don't think it's fair to judge Sun and Moon's story by the incompetent failure of the new director who stepped in to """fix""" the story in USUM. I genuinely believe some idiot thought sun and moon were too deep and ordered everyone to cut out the scenes they thought were boring.
Great work! You can tell so much passion and hard work goes into these retrospective videos
LETS GOOOOO
My first reaction 🤣🤣
No, it's Sun and Moon.
King K, I'm glad you chose to make this video. I have a lot of the same issues with the Gen 7 games that you brought up. The Gen 7 games are some of my least favorite games in the franchise. I'm aware its considered a divisive opinion within the community, but these games just didn't do it for me.
I rushed for my headphones as soon as I saw this notification
Honestly still can't comprehend how GF manage to code this game so poorly that the system would chug to a single frame standstill when more than 2 pokemon happen to be on the battle screen. And I played Monster Hunter on the same system which was more graphically intensive and didn't have these same issues.
48:01 yes you can. This fight unlocks when you defeat Ilima
Obviously not the point of the video, but after learning more about how much space stations have been put on literal sacred mountains in Hawaii, I also find it interesting how much of sun and moon uses space as a motif.
Anyways, thanks for sharing, King. This was the perfect watch for my morning.
Easily some of my favorite games of the series. I think the qol improvements made in this gen were a marked pro.
I was absolutely not expecting a Stormlight Archive jumpscare in this video but as a huge fan, I’m so here for it. Love the parallels you pulled
I absolutely adore Sun and Moon. They introduced my absolute favorite pokemon in the Ultra Beasts, and I found the campaign really great. When they came out I was really blown away. And even with the luster of two generations later, I enjoyed my most recent playthrough. Guzzlord still remains my absolute favorite pokemon, and I'm forever fond of it and the generation. And yeah the ultra games are really sucky.
I’m sorry, there’s no way someone thinks Alola is small. The worst thing about completely the living dex is how many different places and small routes you have to go to to get all the different pokemon
THE GOAT IS BACK
KingK, your commentaries on the Pokémon games are ALWAYS excellent - I (im)patiently wait for them and celebrate when you upload them!
All that being said, your commentary here is astoundingly good. The way you describe aspects of the games like the narrative, the transition to 3D, and the perspective of long-time fans of the series is almost academic in how analytical it is. The way you synthesize your thoughts is entertaining, interesting, and informative! Can’t wait to see SW/SH and especially L:A :)
Also, I should say I AM a little biased because your and my opinions tend to strongly align.
Aw hell yeah new KingK
Great video as always. Big Stormlight Archive fan. If you want more fantasy to read after (and haven't read them already lol), I recommend Wheel of Time and/or Realm of the Elderlings.
I agree with most of the video here, Sun and Moon had cool ideas and concepts throughout and tried some interesting things. I will say however, I’ve seen some videos recently about how much Pokémon ended up taking from the Other popular YoKai Watch games that came out around its release and it’s crazy just how many similarities in the new things that were taken from them. Also, am I the only one who thinks that Lillie should’ve been the main character here? I always thought that Lillie should’ve been the playable character, it feels absolutely awful being this stupid smiling doof throughout the game acting more like a camera with legs than an actual friend to the people who actually move the story and plot along. Like some scenes are real and have good writing and then there’s just you slightly in frame smiling and it destroys any semblance of good emotional cohesion lmao. And then the Ultra games just destroyed the story instead of taking a page from the much better ideas of Black and White 2 and just making it a better sequel. After learning about how the story drastically changed, I legit stopped playing Pokémon all together. Sun and Moon are the most new Pokémon games I’ve ever played. It’s kinda sad, but Pokémon has really fallen out of favor with me recently, I only really go back to play the older games now. But anyway, great review and well done.
I have felt the same with a lot of what you've said in regards to gen 7, except I felt all of this when USUM came out. I was going hard into the VGC scene at the time, so I needed to complete Ultra Sun in a timely manner to start playing VGC 2018 in January. It ended up being such a chore for me that, when I got through the first Guzma fight, I transferred my significantly higher leveled Decidueye from my Sun playthrough over just to finish the game and get access to Mega Evolution. I have never had any desire to do another playthrough of any Gen 7 game since, and I don't regret missing out on a more traditional one.
That said, VGC 2018 is one of the best VGC formats ever so it was very much worth it. I managed to cut a Regional and qualify for Worlds that year.
This man loves Shadow the Hedgehog (2005) but not Pokemon Sun and Moon smdh
That stormlight archive team building was so fun, I would very much appreciate a video talking about this amazing series!!!
(btw i've always thought absol was the perfect representation for Szeth)
ETHAN WAKE UP
yo waddup chain
Truly wonderful video. I didn’t agree with every take, but the scripting was practically perfect. I personally will always love the OG Sun and Moon, and still lament that the Ultra games aren’t sequels to this day.
I never played the latter, and hearing about the difficulty across the board plus the well-worn story issues, I’m sorry to say that I don’t feel like I missed out. I too like a little challenge, but I don’t play Pokèmon for brutal difficulty myself.
holy shit, they vriska'd lusamine. she did the exact same thing with the black king
Nothing like hearing about extra content videos when you already have a subscription to the service!
I absolutely hated this generation. Hated that they ditched the gyms. But most importantly I HAAAATE the lower stake bad guys that recent gens are leaning into. They don’t want to destroy the world anymore, they just want to…. Bully some nerd in high school…? Or something?
Your Sun and Moon video was the first video of yours I ever watched so it's kinda crazy seeing a video that's as much a retrospective on that as it is a retrospective on the games themselves.
For me Sun and Moon suffers from the problem a lot of modern games suffer from these days (even outside of Pokémon) which is focusing way too much on creating a strong first impression at the cost of replayability. I remember loving these games the first time through. It was really cool to see a new Pokémon game focusing so much more on strong characters and bucking traditions, especially after X and Y felt so safe and unmemorable. Unfortunately, much like X and Y, once the main campaign was over I found there was very little to actually do in Alola afterwards. And unlike Gen 6, going back to replay this game is a real slog because of its focus on narrative.
I'm really happy you brought up the problem with ride Pokémon and the region feeling so empty without any dungeons. People act like I'm crazy when I say BDSP are my favourite Pokémon games on the Switch but they're the only ones with that old philosophy of world design still in them and I'm happy to know I'm not the only one who misses them.
I get the criticisms of Sun and Moon but it's still my second favorite after Gen 5, even if I think it's very flawed. It's story had too many highs for me and I love a lot of the cast. It's still such a shame Ultra Sun and Moon had to ruin all of that . . . Gen 7 would have been so much better if they went the sequel route instead of updated rereleases.
Hearing you're a sanderson fan has made me love this channel even more. Ultra moon was the 3rd pokemon game i remember playing and was one that my 10 year old self frankly couldn't get through. I played it on and off for 3 years and still only actually beat ut once. The design is just so linear and forceful it bored me,however i think gen 8 has some of the best designs in the whole series almost every pokemon has a creative design
Based on that initial title, I'm really hoping this is more of a defense of Gen 7. It's my second favorite Gen, and while it is cutscene heavy, there are so many facets to the game that exceed that for me. (Plus, I really like the cast and story of Gen 7, for what it's worth.)
Gen 7 is in my top 3 of all time and I get that gameplay is broken up so much by dialog but damn if i don’t just love the region itself, it’s characters, and it’s mon so much.
How do we tell him
Gen 7 is probably my all time favourite and I’ve been playing since 06
Was very much dreading this video since the Console Pokemon retrospective. The tone he takes in that video felt so melancholy for games that are legitimately really cool and well liked by most of the fanbase.
RIP
Didnt expect to see this tonight, makes my whole day better when KingK uploads