I'm a total fanboy of Michèle Mouton. The first car I bought after college was a 4000S Quattro. On ice in the Pacific NW with studs on, that car was on rails. It also had a beautiful transmission that is often overlooked.
My old neighbour used to do a lot of marshalling for British rally stages and had the pleasure of meeting her a few times. According to him she was a lovely person to talk to and remembered him the next time she saw him. A much nicer person than Walter
I think what made the Quattro was the sheer spectacle of the thing. - An AWD system that required full-throttle, sideways driving. - A turbo system that required aggressive anti-lag to keep the power up. - Over the top aero. - An inline 5 with an exhaust note that was * chef's kiss * - Weight distribution that made the car a handful to drive. It's a recipe for a fire-spitting, tire-spinning, sideways driving, loud, angry, aggressive sounding car with aero sticking out everywhere that looks like it's barely under control. Basically every power sports fan's wet dream, on dirt, with rally lights, and a catchy white/yellow/black paint scheme. The 037 was way better looking, the Delta S4 and 205 T16 better rally cars, but none were the spectac le of the Quattro.
I feel like a story is due for the Citroën Xsara F2 Kit Car - the last 2WD holdout to take an overall WRC event victory in 1999 and a foreshadow of Citroën's untouchable decade five years on.
There was a step between Group B and the Touring Car for the Quattro race cars. After Group B, Audi went GT racing with the SCCA (Trans-Am) and then IMSA (GTO) after the SCCA kicked them out. Of course, IMSA kicked them out shortly afterward. They left their mark though.
The reason for the 8 minute penalty that Vatanen and his co-driver got seem to have been that the co-driver Harryman had clocked in early at a time control, and in the strict rally rulebook, this would not go unpunished.
Any time some old muppet says "women will never be at the top of motorsport" I just point at Michele Mouton. Given that rallying is THE hardest motorsport, she's a god.
If you watch old broadcasts from in period, you can't help but wonder what would've happened if Audi had got on top of the later evolutions reliability problems. Turned up to 11, the transmissions were a bit fragile and the engines and electrics were suspect too. Still a legend though - and my dad managed to find me a Mouton liveried model on a work trip in France! That and the R5 Turbo2 had pride of place in kid me's rally model stable 😊
Audi management held off on creating a mid-engined rally special version of the Quattro for too long. Instead they relied on sheer horsepower to overcome the balance problems of the Quattro. When Audi finally was developing it, the Group B era came to an end.
I’m not a massive rally fan, but I do love it when I see clips of rally cars no matter the era being thrown around some dirt or tarmac road. Just massively impressive. Rally drivers r just a different breed of race car driver. Plus the old Audi Quattro rally and GTO cars r just my favorite sounding turbocharged cars. Speaking of the GTO car, the Quattro had one hell of a time in North America in IMSA and Trans Am. Audi had modified one of their Quattro 200s to lap Talladega in a closed time session. The car would do an average speed of 332.85kmh(206.82mph) which would’ve made it competitive with NASCAR. Which paved the way to run in the 1988 Trans Am season where it would absolutely dominate the season with the Audi 200 before 4 wheel drive would be banned in Trans Am. Audi would then make the GTO spec Quattro and race in IMSA for the 1989 season where it had a massively successful year despite not running the endurance races at Daytona and Sebring. Hans Stuck would finish 3rd in the drivers standings and Audi would snatch 2nd in the constructors championship finishing behind the Roush Mercury Cougars and then ditching IMSA to focus on DTM.
I don't know if you have already made this video, but one about Martin Brundle would be great. He was involved in so many huge crashes over the years im not 100% sure how he survived + he slipped seamlessly into the commentary box beside the master that was Murray Walker, to the point most people forget he was a skilled driver over 25 years ago
You should do videos on the totally awesome macau gt race. It's a super historic event that's had some crazy incidents. The massive crash at the 2017 quali race. Laurens vanthoor winning the race upside down. Edo Mortara's dominance etc. The guia circuit itself is pretty unique as well.
The Quattro was the car my male friends lusted over back in the early 80s. Wasn't mine - I have only ever lusted over 2, non-rally cars. The E-Type (mkII for reasons I'm not sure about) & its "offspring", the XK8 or R. Depends on whether I'm in a turbo or supercharger mood 🤣 I have a bunch of short memories, like still images and short video clips, from watching rally on TV from the 70s-80s in particular (a bit more on & off after that. The joys of kids, eh?). Funnily enough the one that comes most readily to mind was the TR7 going through deep puddles, or worse, fords, and getting stuck because the water would literally flood the engine! Trying to think who it was who drove it. I seem to remember it being mostly white, but it's this one occasion that plays itself on a loop when I think of rallying and I mostly remember the shape and it getting stuck, and me & Dad laughing at it. I think it was one of the Scandinavian or Finnish drivers. Stig or Ari? A big name, unless I'm mixing up memories, which is a side effect of getting old. Though considering the alternative, a weird memory is a small price to pay!
@AidanMillward have you seen the group S prototype roland gumpert developed behind audis back? Theres quite abit of history on it out there after VW audi kindly released the details & the car a few years back, it's been to goodwood and a few other events. During the prototype/testing phase they used a spare sport quattro E2 chassis left most of the aero off and moved the engine to behind the driver with the plan of introducing it with a new aero kit mid way through the 86 season as a pre cursor to a full assault on group S. It boggles the mind just thinking how fast that thing would have been bearing in mind the boost was turned up to 650-700bhp at that point.
Whilst there are loads of Sport and A1S2 Quattro replicas getting around now I'm still waiting for someone to build a replica of that mid-mounted Quattro from those now famous photographs. That would be an awesome project, especially if any information on how they did it could be obtained from the folks who built the original. The Group S car they eventually built is a much more known quantity these days, with an existing example making various appearances (including on Ken Block's channel before he died which brought it to a lot of people's attention), but that mid-mounted Quattro seemed like a more interesting prospect. It's a shame it was never developed.
dad has one of the original road going Quattro was a beast of a car loved being driven in it before was nicked he even tried to do a skid pan session but no luck wish had it longer
Dont forget about how 4WD was banned in the first place. In the 1972 Press on Regardless Rally, a Jeep Grand Wagoneer named 'Moby Dick' was entered and won against its competition of Fords, Datsuns, and Lancias.
Now, now. Don't upset the tea and crumpets crowd with your 'Facts'. If it didn't happen 'On the Continent', especially involving 'The Yanks' it never happened. BWHAHAHHA
I was never a huge ‘Rally’ fan… except for these years to be honest. For whatever reason those Audi Quattro’s got in my blood. That time period was simply nuts but WOW were those amazing cars. As a guitar guy, Aidan, I’m tired of being teased by seeing that Tele in the background. I always hated Tele’s a bit growing up as everyone said Strat’s were ‘just cooler’. But during the lockdowns I decided to build one, and somehow I went down the Tele path… and now I absolutely feel like a fool for ever turning my nose up at them. Incredibly versatile. I’d really love to hear you with your’s in a video - if you ever get that particular itch?
To be fair, the Sport Quattro debuted mid 84 and in competition had around 450hp, exterior was the same as the roadgoing group B version, and its not the same as the A2 version, that Sport Quattro was the shortened base fof the S1 E2 that debuted in mid 85, so in resume the S1 did not have a shorter wheelbase than the Sport Quattro base, and the S1 E2 had more than 500hp widely known at its time. This all is becuase of 9:34
Great video, the Quatro is definately one of the great racing/rally cars of all time, particuarly when you consider it's success in rallycross post Group B, and as a brand name in the 1996 BTCC. On the Ashes to Ashes thing i am honestly surprised that Gene Hunt, Ray Carling, or Chris Skilton did not menton havning a crush on Michelle Mouton, i know thatlast part is probably bad of me
The rs3 is a dream car for me because of the 5 cylinder. I saw a group b quattro in at a sort of showcase once and have always wanted an Audi 5 cylinder since. The Volvo 5 cylinder I had in my ford focus st was great but the Audi is still the eventual goal.
I'm old enough to have been involved in rallying before the Quattros appeared, although out here in New Zealand a little distanced from regular reporting on European events and have to admit I was among the quite large percentage of fans who thought this big heavy complex car wasn't suited to special stage rallying. 4WD meant Landrovers and Landcruisers, never going to work. Of course they proved us spectacularly wrong and changed not only rallying as a sport but the everyday road cars that many people drive. Until then I think Subaru was the only manufacturer with a 4WD vehicle based on an ordinary station wagon and nowadays it's just expected. My understanding is the Quattro's achilles heel was the management insistence on keeping the stock engine placement and unibody floorpan style so it was relevant to the road cars. A 5 cylinder that stuck out past the front axle meant it was always struggling to keep pace with the mid engined space frame cars from everyone else. But nothing else sounds quite like that engine on song with brutal wastegate chatter and overun backfires, spitting huge flames and gravel. (sorry for writing a novel)
It was obvious that Group B would end like it did. The crash into the crowd in Portugal, sadly killing 3 spectators, was the beginning of the end. The fatal crash of Toivonen in Corsica was the end. Like F1 in the late 1960's and 1970's, the cars became too fast for the circuits. Which were also not very safe, to say the least. I'm actually surprised that there wasn't more fatal incidents in Group B Rallying. I'm glad that there wasn't obviously, but when you consider how many fatal crashes that occurred in F1, Group B could have seen the same.
Naw, Audi didn't make their mark post-Group B with BTCC. I mean, they did dominate it but at that point, Audi was already well-known across Europe and selling relatively well but there's one place where most European cars were never gonna see ground and that's America. Prior to the 90s, most European manufacturers are losing money trying to sell cars in America and Audi ironically was one of them as they wern't particularly well-known to Americans. However, after the cancellation of Group B, Audi was STILL itching to race and having made a name for themselves at Pikes Peak, the board felt that the US would be another good swing. They noticed that one American race series has relatively lax rules too and having base in Group B with still many spare parts lying around, they decided to dabble in IMSA. Now unlike Group B, IMSA has a rule where you have to use cars that you make to be sold to the general public and thus Audi already had that covered. So what Audi did was take an Audi 80/90, swap out the shell with some carbon parts, boost the engine to the moon and stick it into IMSA. What Audi did, shocked the Americans. As Audi had the Audi 90 IMSA machines, Nissan had their Skyline GTR R32 "Godzilla" as both works about the same way. Turbocharged engines with power figures that snuffles whatever they're competing, highly sophisticated AWD system and still following the rules. When Audi took the 90 to IMSA, they straight up dominated, especially in rainy races where the others like those having Ford Mustangs and Camaros were slithering and sliding everywhere in the rain while scrambling to get into the pits for wet tires, the Audi could soldier on on slicks abeit with a slightly harder control but still manageable. This irked many manufacturers that the Audi went up against as they found the AWD to be too potent and called for straight weight penalties to be added to the already heavy Audi by at least 200kg. Audi doesn't give a shit and still continued banging out good results. However, Nissan took the championship time and time again but that made Audi a namestay in America that people soon realized that not only were these "Audis" quick, they're also safe to drive in adverse conditions.
you forgot how the Quattro DESTROYED IMSA and Trans Amr championship(i forgot its name) in 88 and 89 iirc, with Röhrl, Haywood (won Trans Am) and Stuck (won IMSA) as their drivers, despite the regulators even trying to handicap them in midst of the season (88), and also Röhrl setting a massive new record in 87 on Pines Peak (20 seconds faster then last years one). Then they went to DTM and dominated there too between 1990 and 92 with 2 Championships (driver and contructor) and half of the races won by an Audi.... A bit sloppy there, Aidan ^^
Group B had like 6 icon cars. Delta, 037, rs200, t16 ect. Lancia and Audi were a great rivalry. Add Peugeot and Ford that's 4 massive teams swinging for the fences. Your opening statement might be a bit off.
I wouldn't put the RS200 in the same category as the Quattro, 037 and T16, which were winning classic events like the Monte Carlo Rally and overall WRC championship wins. Even the Renault 5 Turbo had a couple of outright wins in the Tour de Corse. Nissan, Toyota and Opel also managed to grab some Group B wins.
Apparently Ford had been experimenting with 4WD Mustangs as early as the late 1960s, using the same Ferguson Formula AWD as the Jensen FF, the first AWD production car. I also know of at least one Prototype Ford LTD Estate made in the early 1970s using a unique V-Drive system to the front wheels (basically two diagonal driveshafts from the transfer case at the rear of the transmission directly to the front wheel hubs) and 4WD had been raced successfully in Rallycross in the early 1970s, which was also one of the reasons it got banned for latter part of the 1970s.
Audi continued after the end of Group B and had a team in the 1987 WRC championship under Group A rules. They won the Safari Rally with the 200 Quattro and managed to grab a few podiums elsewhere.
Anyone else find it ironic that one of the Audi Quattros pictured has "Gallardo Sport" on it? It makes more since if you remember who owns who at V.A.G.
I just never seem to be able to get very excited about anything Audi. Seems to have such a grey drab image, with a few carbon fibre bits added on for effect.
It’s funny that the Sierra rs500 dominated so they banned it, the skyline dominated Bathurst so they banned it. Williams dominated f1 so they banned it Audi show up with 4wd and dominated so they banned it. Oww no they all accepted it and embraced it as the future
The other bans were a bit trickier though. Skyline banned because the Aussies hated that Holden was getting beaten Williams and the other teams had their stuff taken from them because the computers were driving not the cars
@@AidanMillward "Skyline banned because the Aussies hated that Holden was getting beaten". Well, kind of, but not strictly true. A very convenient story at the time, and Holden and Ford had lobbied heavily during the GTRs reign, but factually Group A was a dead category in 1992, Australia and Japan were the only countries still running it, and Japan was local cars only, so no Sierras or BMWs. Australia was always going to move to a new category in 1993. There was definitely an aspect of giving the people what they want, which they did, and its success is undisputed, but to say the GTR was "banned" because Holden and Ford couldn't beat it isn't technically true, that's just something the flag-waving bogans say to feel like they won, when from a technology standpoint V8 Supercars was a significant step backwards. Super Tourers were running as a category also, but that was never going to be the main event in Australia because it had the same problem that Group A did - the cars were either in extremely limited numbers or not available to the public at all so there was no brand relevance. I've often speculated on what Group A in Australia may have become had it continued. The Ford Sierra could have gone to a 4WD system, it already existed in the Sapphire rally cars, I believe Ford UK looked at it but abandoned it when Group A was discontinued. Holden had a 4WD system on the drawing board which eventually found its way into the Monaro Coupe 4, BMW were developing V8 engines for the next model M3, Toyota had the Gen4 Supra with the now legendary 2JZ twin turbo engine, and Ford had an alternative local product possibility once the Barra straight 6 was sorted in the new Falcons, with the XR6 Turbo road cars being quicker than the V8s it would have been readily accepted by the fans. Nissan were developing the R33 GTR as the R32's replacement. None of it happened of course as Group A was abandoned, but it's fun to think about what it might have looked like with all those cars on the grid.
INFO WRONG, Audi wasn't banned in BTCC outright, for 1997 they still raced but with weight penalties, for 1998 they convereted to FWD as FIA banned them for works teams but privateers could continue using the 4WD
The Quattro never caught as much air as the cars of its generation. Was it that much heavier or were the drivers being careful not to have it crashing to the ground?
I hope so, they get far too little credit for their accomplishments. People who extol Jamie Chadwick may have never heard of Michelle Mouton. It's kind of laughable if it weren't so sad.
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing people raving about Chadwick but the Iron Dames, Simona de Silvestro, Catie Munnings, Molly Taylor, Abbie Eaton, Hedda Hosas, Mikaela Kottulinsky, Jade Edwards and others exist.
@@AidanMillward It's great to see Simona back at Bathurst this year 🙂 I always thought she was a better driver than her results indicated. Be interesting to see how she goes now she's in a vaguely competitive car. And Molly Taylor is a effing legend. I notice you didn't mention Renee Gracie, lol. Let's not go there, ahem. I'm just kidding, she's going pretty well in GT4 this year, even if the car has controversial sponsorship.
I don't consider the Quattro as a good rally car, it was a great proof of concept, but was beaten in 83 by the Lancia 037 which was a great rally car, and once the 205 was released, which was a great rally car, the Quattro only won 3 more WRC events (as I recall). So it definitely changed the formula all other manufacturers had to follow, a great proof of concept but not a great rally car. I am sure many will disagree....... I have to say watching and listening to Ollie Arnesen rag one round Brands Rallycross Grand Prix was spectacular, but he was never going to win
Well it did win races for its time so it wasn't just a proof of concept Edit: plus the only reason the 037 won the championship over the Quattro was because Lancia was doing everything they can to win and I mean "everything"
I agree with you - it was 4wd and huge power against Ford Escorts. A bit like the Lotus 79 in F1 - it annihilated everyone in 1978, but in 1979 when everyone else had a ground-effects car it didn't win a race.
Strange to choose from Group C, the Mazda which only won a single race instead of the 956/962 which pretty much made Group C. Everyone is free to have their own favourites of course but the Mazda legend does seem to have far outstripped the reality.
@@AidanMillward sure, fair enough. I'm old enough to have been watching at the time and it didn't really make much impact - it was slow, not really competitive and kind of fluked a win a Le Mans due to some helpful rules that added 100kg to the competition who also all suffered reliability issues. I know I'm in a minority but I'm genuinely curious as to why it has achieved such cult status; is it anything more than the paint job and the sound?
The quote you might be looking for (paraphrased): 'The damn Mazda is still going around.' That is why the one off win is still recognized. Zee Germans(Porsche) had enough help from the organizers for too many DECADES.@@NonFlyiingDutchman
Yep, the IMSA GTP Audi 200, that was a Grp B Quattro in a nice suit. From memory, it could make 750+bhp easily and apparently did well over 1000bhp on a dyno run. That was basically the projected Grp S engine. What could've been, eh?
@@rexthewolf3149 it is faster but bugger me it's boring in the most part. Why do you think the are making new Mk1 and Mk2 Escort's? The old 911 scene and mx5 are huge. Not seeing that for the quattro. Doesn't have to be faster to be better.
@@benjaminbenson8714 I mean the Mx5 and 911 aren’t what people buy to rally with. And again it’s Motorsport fun is not the priority. 4wd is just inherently better for off-road driving. And when the goal is to win speed is all that matters.
A true legend indeed... but "posterboy"? Nope, that "German brute" with its drag coefficient somewhere in the region of Buckingham Palace was far too ugly for MY walls, a thing of beauty it was not. ;) When it comes to looks, it doesn't get much better than Lancia's gorgeous Stratos or 037 (which had absolutely no business of beating the Quattro, except it did in '83). And weren't we all rooting for Michèle Mouton back then? She is proof that all female drivers need, besides talent obviously, is guts and grit, not some silly shenanigans like "W-Series" (of which she wasn't particularly fond of, IIRC). Not only did she succeed, her rise to fame also led to Messrs Vatanen and Roehrl "making a bit of an @$$" of themselves. 😉 P.S.: Josh Revell paid homage to Michèle with a lovely clip a little while ago. Look it up if you haven't seen it.
I'm a total fanboy of Michèle Mouton.
The first car I bought after college was a 4000S Quattro. On ice in the Pacific NW with studs on, that car was on rails. It also had a beautiful transmission that is often overlooked.
Real hero for this girl who'd been brought up by a rally driver and passed my test in '82. Though Pat Moss was my dad's hero!
she had bigger balls than most of the blokes!!
My old neighbour used to do a lot of marshalling for British rally stages and had the pleasure of meeting her a few times. According to him she was a lovely person to talk to and remembered him the next time she saw him. A much nicer person than Walter
@@Woodie-xq1ew Walter is just more germanic, but overall quiet the nice guy
@@y_fam_goeglyd Did you mean rally or driver's license? I had no idea that Stirling was Pat's brother. What a family!
I think what made the Quattro was the sheer spectacle of the thing.
- An AWD system that required full-throttle, sideways driving.
- A turbo system that required aggressive anti-lag to keep the power up.
- Over the top aero.
- An inline 5 with an exhaust note that was * chef's kiss *
- Weight distribution that made the car a handful to drive.
It's a recipe for a fire-spitting, tire-spinning, sideways driving, loud, angry, aggressive sounding car with aero sticking out everywhere that looks like it's barely under control. Basically every power sports fan's wet dream, on dirt, with rally lights, and a catchy white/yellow/black paint scheme.
The 037 was way better looking, the Delta S4 and 205 T16 better rally cars, but none were the spectac le of the Quattro.
I feel like a story is due for the Citroën Xsara F2 Kit Car - the last 2WD holdout to take an overall WRC event victory in 1999 and a foreshadow of Citroën's untouchable decade five years on.
There was a step between Group B and the Touring Car for the Quattro race cars. After Group B, Audi went GT racing with the SCCA (Trans-Am) and then IMSA (GTO) after the SCCA kicked them out. Of course, IMSA kicked them out shortly afterward. They left their mark though.
The reason for the 8 minute penalty that Vatanen and his co-driver got seem to have been that the co-driver Harryman had clocked in early at a time control, and in the strict rally rulebook, this would not go unpunished.
Man’s just efficient.
Vatenan said he had the most fun in the black Escort at the end of production after 4x4 took over. It was a monster car.
Any time some old muppet says "women will never be at the top of motorsport" I just point at Michele Mouton. Given that rallying is THE hardest motorsport, she's a god.
It must be fun to watch the back-pedalling when you do that.
If you watch old broadcasts from in period, you can't help but wonder what would've happened if Audi had got on top of the later evolutions reliability problems. Turned up to 11, the transmissions were a bit fragile and the engines and electrics were suspect too. Still a legend though - and my dad managed to find me a Mouton liveried model on a work trip in France! That and the R5 Turbo2 had pride of place in kid me's rally model stable 😊
Audi management held off on creating a mid-engined rally special version of the Quattro for too long. Instead they relied on sheer horsepower to overcome the balance problems of the Quattro. When Audi finally was developing it, the Group B era came to an end.
Hello Aidan: My understanding is that Hans Stuck also had great success in Trans Am, in a Quattro. Have a lovely day.
In case anyone's interested in Sara-n-Tuned's early Quattro road car restoration:
ua-cam.com/play/PLmhNtwDcrRxFiOpHyNVE1MakDaBK9gM5b.html
I’m not a massive rally fan, but I do love it when I see clips of rally cars no matter the era being thrown around some dirt or tarmac road. Just massively impressive. Rally drivers r just a different breed of race car driver. Plus the old Audi Quattro rally and GTO cars r just my favorite sounding turbocharged cars. Speaking of the GTO car, the Quattro had one hell of a time in North America in IMSA and Trans Am. Audi had modified one of their Quattro 200s to lap Talladega in a closed time session. The car would do an average speed of 332.85kmh(206.82mph) which would’ve made it competitive with NASCAR. Which paved the way to run in the 1988 Trans Am season where it would absolutely dominate the season with the Audi 200 before 4 wheel drive would be banned in Trans Am. Audi would then make the GTO spec Quattro and race in IMSA for the 1989 season where it had a massively successful year despite not running the endurance races at Daytona and Sebring. Hans Stuck would finish 3rd in the drivers standings and Audi would snatch 2nd in the constructors championship finishing behind the Roush Mercury Cougars and then ditching IMSA to focus on DTM.
I owned one back in the 1990’s and it was a total joy to drive, that engine sound is unique!
I don't know if you have already made this video, but one about Martin Brundle would be great.
He was involved in so many huge crashes over the years im not 100% sure how he survived + he slipped seamlessly into the commentary box beside the master that was Murray Walker, to the point most people forget he was a skilled driver over 25 years ago
You should do videos on the totally awesome macau gt race. It's a super historic event that's had some crazy incidents. The massive crash at the 2017 quali race. Laurens vanthoor winning the race upside down. Edo Mortara's dominance etc. The guia circuit itself is pretty unique as well.
Another quality production
The Quattro was the car my male friends lusted over back in the early 80s. Wasn't mine - I have only ever lusted over 2, non-rally cars. The E-Type (mkII for reasons I'm not sure about) & its "offspring", the XK8 or R. Depends on whether I'm in a turbo or supercharger mood 🤣
I have a bunch of short memories, like still images and short video clips, from watching rally on TV from the 70s-80s in particular (a bit more on & off after that. The joys of kids, eh?). Funnily enough the one that comes most readily to mind was the TR7 going through deep puddles, or worse, fords, and getting stuck because the water would literally flood the engine! Trying to think who it was who drove it. I seem to remember it being mostly white, but it's this one occasion that plays itself on a loop when I think of rallying and I mostly remember the shape and it getting stuck, and me & Dad laughing at it. I think it was one of the Scandinavian or Finnish drivers. Stig or Ari? A big name, unless I'm mixing up memories, which is a side effect of getting old. Though considering the alternative, a weird memory is a small price to pay!
How about the F40??
@AidanMillward have you seen the group S prototype roland gumpert developed behind audis back? Theres quite abit of history on it out there after VW audi kindly released the details & the car a few years back, it's been to goodwood and a few other events. During the prototype/testing phase they used a spare sport quattro E2 chassis left most of the aero off and moved the engine to behind the driver with the plan of introducing it with a new aero kit mid way through the 86 season as a pre cursor to a full assault on group S. It boggles the mind just thinking how fast that thing would have been bearing in mind the boost was turned up to 650-700bhp at that point.
Whilst there are loads of Sport and A1S2 Quattro replicas getting around now I'm still waiting for someone to build a replica of that mid-mounted Quattro from those now famous photographs. That would be an awesome project, especially if any information on how they did it could be obtained from the folks who built the original. The Group S car they eventually built is a much more known quantity these days, with an existing example making various appearances (including on Ken Block's channel before he died which brought it to a lot of people's attention), but that mid-mounted Quattro seemed like a more interesting prospect. It's a shame it was never developed.
dad has one of the original road going Quattro was a beast of a car loved being driven in it before was nicked
he even tried to do a skid pan session but no luck wish had it longer
Dont forget about how 4WD was banned in the first place. In the 1972 Press on Regardless Rally, a Jeep Grand Wagoneer named 'Moby Dick' was entered and won against its competition of Fords, Datsuns, and Lancias.
Now, now. Don't upset the tea and crumpets crowd with your 'Facts'. If it didn't happen 'On the Continent', especially involving 'The Yanks' it never happened. BWHAHAHHA
loving the content aidan
I was never a huge ‘Rally’ fan… except for these years to be honest. For whatever reason those Audi Quattro’s got in my blood. That time period was simply nuts but WOW were those amazing cars.
As a guitar guy, Aidan, I’m tired of being teased by seeing that Tele in the background. I always hated Tele’s a bit growing up as everyone said Strat’s were ‘just cooler’. But during the lockdowns I decided to build one, and somehow I went down the Tele path… and now I absolutely feel like a fool for ever turning my nose up at them. Incredibly versatile. I’d really love to hear you with your’s in a video - if you ever get that particular itch?
To be fair, the Sport Quattro debuted mid 84 and in competition had around 450hp, exterior was the same as the roadgoing group B version, and its not the same as the A2 version, that Sport Quattro was the shortened base fof the S1 E2 that debuted in mid 85, so in resume the S1 did not have a shorter wheelbase than the Sport Quattro base, and the S1 E2 had more than 500hp widely known at its time. This all is becuase of 9:34
Great video, the Quatro is definately one of the great racing/rally cars of all time, particuarly when you consider it's success in rallycross post Group B, and as a brand name in the 1996 BTCC. On the Ashes to Ashes thing i am honestly surprised that Gene Hunt, Ray Carling, or Chris Skilton did not menton havning a crush on Michelle Mouton, i know thatlast part is probably bad of me
I was in high school in 83 and did a creative writing assignment where a key character was my Audi Quattro (with remote start ). Not that I owned one.
11:32 This is actually the E2 Pikes Peak version, it's the yellow one without the extra wing in the front that was used for rallying
I know. That’s the only pic available.
Watch Madness on Wheels. It's absolutely bonkers and probably one of the best documentaries on Group B.
The rs3 is a dream car for me because of the 5 cylinder. I saw a group b quattro in at a sort of showcase once and have always wanted an Audi 5 cylinder since.
The Volvo 5 cylinder I had in my ford focus st was great but the Audi is still the eventual goal.
I'm old enough to have been involved in rallying before the Quattros appeared, although out here in New Zealand a little distanced from regular reporting on European events and have to admit I was among the quite large percentage of fans who thought this big heavy complex car wasn't suited to special stage rallying. 4WD meant Landrovers and Landcruisers, never going to work. Of course they proved us spectacularly wrong and changed not only rallying as a sport but the everyday road cars that many people drive. Until then I think Subaru was the only manufacturer with a 4WD vehicle based on an ordinary station wagon and nowadays it's just expected. My understanding is the Quattro's achilles heel was the management insistence on keeping the stock engine placement and unibody floorpan style so it was relevant to the road cars. A 5 cylinder that stuck out past the front axle meant it was always struggling to keep pace with the mid engined space frame cars from everyone else. But nothing else sounds quite like that engine on song with brutal wastegate chatter and overun backfires, spitting huge flames and gravel. (sorry for writing a novel)
It was obvious that Group B would end like it did. The crash into the crowd in Portugal, sadly killing 3 spectators, was the beginning of the end. The fatal crash of Toivonen in Corsica was the end. Like F1 in the late 1960's and 1970's, the cars became too fast for the circuits. Which were also not very safe, to say the least. I'm actually surprised that there wasn't more fatal incidents in Group B Rallying. I'm glad that there wasn't obviously, but when you consider how many fatal crashes that occurred in F1, Group B could have seen the same.
Naw, Audi didn't make their mark post-Group B with BTCC. I mean, they did dominate it but at that point, Audi was already well-known across Europe and selling relatively well but there's one place where most European cars were never gonna see ground and that's America.
Prior to the 90s, most European manufacturers are losing money trying to sell cars in America and Audi ironically was one of them as they wern't particularly well-known to Americans. However, after the cancellation of Group B, Audi was STILL itching to race and having made a name for themselves at Pikes Peak, the board felt that the US would be another good swing.
They noticed that one American race series has relatively lax rules too and having base in Group B with still many spare parts lying around, they decided to dabble in IMSA.
Now unlike Group B, IMSA has a rule where you have to use cars that you make to be sold to the general public and thus Audi already had that covered. So what Audi did was take an Audi 80/90, swap out the shell with some carbon parts, boost the engine to the moon and stick it into IMSA. What Audi did, shocked the Americans.
As Audi had the Audi 90 IMSA machines, Nissan had their Skyline GTR R32 "Godzilla" as both works about the same way. Turbocharged engines with power figures that snuffles whatever they're competing, highly sophisticated AWD system and still following the rules.
When Audi took the 90 to IMSA, they straight up dominated, especially in rainy races where the others like those having Ford Mustangs and Camaros were slithering and sliding everywhere in the rain while scrambling to get into the pits for wet tires, the Audi could soldier on on slicks abeit with a slightly harder control but still manageable. This irked many manufacturers that the Audi went up against as they found the AWD to be too potent and called for straight weight penalties to be added to the already heavy Audi by at least 200kg. Audi doesn't give a shit and still continued banging out good results.
However, Nissan took the championship time and time again but that made Audi a namestay in America that people soon realized that not only were these "Audis" quick, they're also safe to drive in adverse conditions.
I never saw the show "Ashes to ashes" but there seems to be a reference to it in Forza Horizon 4 when you get the Quattro in one of the barnfinds.
Saw a Quattro Sport SWB last Saturday. Only the second road version I've seen.
Don’t forget the insane PDK gearbox. Hydraulic operated clutch pedal and all.
I love that Volvo decided to race the 850. There's something rather Ferrari-like in their mentality - "Pffffft aero? Who needs that?"
2:00 I never noticed that the 3 groups of 80s rallying spelled out BAN. Heavy foreshadowing
Could you do a vid on timo salonen or just in general the 205? my fav group b car :)
you forgot how the Quattro DESTROYED IMSA and Trans Amr championship(i forgot its name) in 88 and 89 iirc, with Röhrl, Haywood (won Trans Am) and Stuck (won IMSA) as their drivers, despite the regulators even trying to handicap them in midst of the season (88), and also Röhrl setting a massive new record in 87 on Pines Peak (20 seconds faster then last years one). Then they went to DTM and dominated there too between 1990 and 92 with 2 Championships (driver and contructor) and half of the races won by an Audi....
A bit sloppy there, Aidan ^^
Didn’t forget anything cos this is about the rally car. 😉
Stuck had the little doll in the back window that would moon other drivers on his command from the driver seat!😅
Similar, but without the fatalities, to the Subaru WRX.
Group B had like 6 icon cars. Delta, 037, rs200, t16 ect. Lancia and Audi were a great rivalry. Add Peugeot and Ford that's 4 massive teams swinging for the fences. Your opening statement might be a bit off.
I wouldn't put the RS200 in the same category as the Quattro, 037 and T16, which were winning classic events like the Monte Carlo Rally and overall WRC championship wins. Even the Renault 5 Turbo had a couple of outright wins in the Tour de Corse. Nissan, Toyota and Opel also managed to grab some Group B wins.
Commenting to boost the algorithm
From the popular culture my most favourite combo must be Ford Capri mk III & The Professionals ❤
Thunderbirds and FAB1
Apparently Ford had been experimenting with 4WD Mustangs as early as the late 1960s, using the same Ferguson Formula AWD as the Jensen FF, the first AWD production car. I also know of at least one Prototype Ford LTD Estate made in the early 1970s using a unique V-Drive system to the front wheels (basically two diagonal driveshafts from the transfer case at the rear of the transmission directly to the front wheel hubs) and 4WD had been raced successfully in Rallycross in the early 1970s, which was also one of the reasons it got banned for latter part of the 1970s.
And sadly, Audi have never returned to rallying.....And it's a long time since the WRC saw anything that was innovative introduced.
Everyone’s in cost cutting mode now so probably won’t see anything for a while.
Audi continued after the end of Group B and had a team in the 1987 WRC championship under Group A rules. They won the Safari Rally with the 200 Quattro and managed to grab a few podiums elsewhere.
Well, they were competing in the 2022 and 2023 editions of the "Rally Dakkar" with the Audi RS Q e-tron, driven by Carlos Sainz (the Elder) et al.
Anyone else find it ironic that one of the Audi Quattros pictured has "Gallardo Sport" on it? It makes more since if you remember who owns who at V.A.G.
I'm not sure (maybe I'm wrong), but the word you're looking for might be duality.
Maybe. But I’ll stick with the comedy answer.
@@AidanMillward yeah, works better
I just never seem to be able to get very excited about anything Audi. Seems to have such a grey drab image, with a few carbon fibre bits added on for effect.
Slight correction: The "Iltis" is a VW. "BW" means "Bundeswehr", the armed forces of Germany.
Prices are going up on these ones...
Yessss!
>Thumbnail
Yeah, I miss Ashes to Ashes...
"Ok Bollyknickers!"
Sauber C9: "Am I a joke to you?"
Another iconic 60s F1 car: the Ferrari 156 Sharknose
I really like what you do around here. have a pint on me!
Group A Quattro did also get a win in 1987
i remember a peugeot wih a 1.9L pumping 1100 h.p. . it was like a light switch.
The quatro is a grate car but everyone seems to forget it owes it's existence to the jenson intorceptor FF the first four wheel drive productiin car.
It’s funny that the Sierra rs500 dominated so they banned it, the skyline dominated Bathurst so they banned it. Williams dominated f1 so they banned it Audi show up with 4wd and dominated so they banned it. Oww no they all accepted it and embraced it as the future
The other bans were a bit trickier though.
Skyline banned because the Aussies hated that Holden was getting beaten
Williams and the other teams had their stuff taken from them because the computers were driving not the cars
@@AidanMillward "Skyline banned because the Aussies hated that Holden was getting beaten". Well, kind of, but not strictly true. A very convenient story at the time, and Holden and Ford had lobbied heavily during the GTRs reign, but factually Group A was a dead category in 1992, Australia and Japan were the only countries still running it, and Japan was local cars only, so no Sierras or BMWs. Australia was always going to move to a new category in 1993. There was definitely an aspect of giving the people what they want, which they did, and its success is undisputed, but to say the GTR was "banned" because Holden and Ford couldn't beat it isn't technically true, that's just something the flag-waving bogans say to feel like they won, when from a technology standpoint V8 Supercars was a significant step backwards. Super Tourers were running as a category also, but that was never going to be the main event in Australia because it had the same problem that Group A did - the cars were either in extremely limited numbers or not available to the public at all so there was no brand relevance.
I've often speculated on what Group A in Australia may have become had it continued. The Ford Sierra could have gone to a 4WD system, it already existed in the Sapphire rally cars, I believe Ford UK looked at it but abandoned it when Group A was discontinued. Holden had a 4WD system on the drawing board which eventually found its way into the Monaro Coupe 4, BMW were developing V8 engines for the next model M3, Toyota had the Gen4 Supra with the now legendary 2JZ twin turbo engine, and Ford had an alternative local product possibility once the Barra straight 6 was sorted in the new Falcons, with the XR6 Turbo road cars being quicker than the V8s it would have been readily accepted by the fans. Nissan were developing the R33 GTR as the R32's replacement. None of it happened of course as Group A was abandoned, but it's fun to think about what it might have looked like with all those cars on the grid.
VOLUME! Can't hear you Aidan, crank it up a bit next time please!
It’s the same volume as all the other videos. 💁🏻♂️
I've seen the Mini Metro Group B car. It looked nothing like a Min Metro apart from the name, the badge was different.
INFO WRONG, Audi wasn't banned in BTCC outright, for 1997 they still raced but with weight penalties, for 1998 they convereted to FWD as FIA banned them for works teams but privateers could continue using the 4WD
Didn't they continue to rally during the early days of Group A though?
Have you ever thought about saying "Subscribe and make sure to turn notifications Stafan Bellon" at the end of a video?
If I recall, he already did once (Can't remember which video).
The Quattro never caught as much air as the cars of its generation. Was it that much heavier or were the drivers being careful not to have it crashing to the ground?
Luke Skywalker didn't bulls-eye Womp rats in his Quattro, he did it in his T16. B-)
Michelle Mouton/Louise Aitken-Walker video incoming??
I hope so, they get far too little credit for their accomplishments. People who extol Jamie Chadwick may have never heard of Michelle Mouton. It's kind of laughable if it weren't so sad.
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing same for Louise, how many people would know she has a btcc class victory at Thruxton of all places ?
@@GregBrownsWorldORacing people raving about Chadwick but the Iron Dames, Simona de Silvestro, Catie Munnings, Molly Taylor, Abbie Eaton, Hedda Hosas, Mikaela Kottulinsky, Jade Edwards and others exist.
@@AidanMillward It's great to see Simona back at Bathurst this year 🙂 I always thought she was a better driver than her results indicated. Be interesting to see how she goes now she's in a vaguely competitive car. And Molly Taylor is a effing legend.
I notice you didn't mention Renee Gracie, lol. Let's not go there, ahem. I'm just kidding, she's going pretty well in GT4 this year, even if the car has controversial sponsorship.
"World Rally, you've just been Quattro'ed."
Or something like that...
EDIT posted comment before you mentioned Ashes to Ashes lol
I don't consider the Quattro as a good rally car, it was a great proof of concept, but was beaten in 83 by the Lancia 037 which was a great rally car, and once the 205 was released, which was a great rally car, the Quattro only won 3 more WRC events (as I recall). So it definitely changed the formula all other manufacturers had to follow, a great proof of concept but not a great rally car. I am sure many will disagree....... I have to say watching and listening to Ollie Arnesen rag one round Brands Rallycross Grand Prix was spectacular, but he was never going to win
Well it did win races for its time so it wasn't just a proof of concept
Edit: plus the only reason the 037 won the championship over the Quattro was because Lancia was doing everything they can to win and I mean "everything"
I agree with you - it was 4wd and huge power against Ford Escorts. A bit like the Lotus 79 in F1 - it annihilated everyone in 1978, but in 1979 when everyone else had a ground-effects car it didn't win a race.
Strange to choose from Group C, the Mazda which only won a single race instead of the 956/962 which pretty much made Group C. Everyone is free to have their own favourites of course but the Mazda legend does seem to have far outstripped the reality.
If I didn’t say it, people would cry is forgotten it. 😅
@@AidanMillward sure, fair enough. I'm old enough to have been watching at the time and it didn't really make much impact - it was slow, not really competitive and kind of fluked a win a Le Mans due to some helpful rules that added 100kg to the competition who also all suffered reliability issues. I know I'm in a minority but I'm genuinely curious as to why it has achieved such cult status; is it anything more than the paint job and the sound?
@@NonFlyiingDutchman I did a whole video on the 787 being a myth perpetuated by Japanese car fans but some people weren’t having it 😅
@@AidanMillward I'll check it out
The quote you might be looking for (paraphrased): 'The damn Mazda is still going around.' That is why the one off win is still recognized. Zee Germans(Porsche) had enough help from the organizers for too many DECADES.@@NonFlyiingDutchman
Jeremy Clarkson never worked for Lancia; my dad did for 12 years before he immigrated to Canada.
It’s Lan-cha not lan-sia.
Ctrl-F "audi quattro group b pure sound" (I'll be in my bunk)
What about the trans am racing in the usa al
That was after Group B, and basically used the same Quattro system
And H.J. Stuck, Walter Rohl who agreed you really didn't have to push the car very much to beat 'the other guys'
Yep, the IMSA GTP Audi 200, that was a Grp B Quattro in a nice suit. From memory, it could make 750+bhp easily and apparently did well over 1000bhp on a dyno run. That was basically the projected Grp S engine. What could've been, eh?
@@creepingjesus5106You'd be surprised to hear the 1988 Trans Am Audi 200s used the older 10 valve A1/A2 spec Quattro engine upgraded to 500-550hp.
NEXT VID! Lancia Delta...
Funny you mention the Delta, just after watching a lovely clip about that "cute little beast" ... look up "lancia delta jason cammisa".
BATHURST BABY!!!!
Maybe you meant "duality"?
That’s a Slipknot song tho. 🤔
@@AidanMillward OK, no problem. Thanks.
Mmmmmmmmmmmmm Lancia....
It was a Ford rs200 not a 2000
It's bitter sweet for me. 4x4 ruined rallying and I'll never forgive the Quattro. Haha.
I owned 2 Ur quattro, awesome vehicles.
Shame you make stupid comments
I mean 4wd is just better. Going fast doesn’t care about fun or cool factor
Tell us you ran a Ford Escort in the early 80s without telling us you ran a Ford Escort in the early 80s. Lol. 🙂
@@rexthewolf3149 it is faster but bugger me it's boring in the most part. Why do you think the are making new Mk1 and Mk2 Escort's? The old 911 scene and mx5 are huge. Not seeing that for the quattro. Doesn't have to be faster to be better.
@@benjaminbenson8714 I mean the Mx5 and 911 aren’t what people buy to rally with. And again it’s Motorsport fun is not the priority. 4wd is just inherently better for off-road driving. And when the goal is to win speed is all that matters.
RS200 not Rs2000
A true legend indeed... but "posterboy"? Nope, that "German brute" with its drag coefficient somewhere in the region of Buckingham Palace was far too ugly for MY walls, a thing of beauty it was not. ;)
When it comes to looks, it doesn't get much better than Lancia's gorgeous Stratos or 037 (which had absolutely no business of beating the Quattro, except it did in '83).
And weren't we all rooting for Michèle Mouton back then? She is proof that all female drivers need, besides talent obviously, is guts and grit, not some silly shenanigans like "W-Series" (of which she wasn't particularly fond of, IIRC). Not only did she succeed, her rise to fame also led to Messrs Vatanen and Roehrl "making a bit of an @$$" of themselves. 😉
P.S.: Josh Revell paid homage to Michèle with a lovely clip a little while ago. Look it up if you haven't seen it.
RS200..... The RS2000 is a different car you slaaaaaaaaag