110$ WinWing URSA MINOR Flightstick Review
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- Опубліковано 20 тра 2024
- Good people, we have a new champ: the URSA MINOR is the entry level base and grip the sim community needed. It's affordable & awesome but not without its flaws of course. I compare it to the VKB Gladiator. Watch the video to find out whether you should spend your hard earned money or better go for an alternative.
Ursa Minor in the WinWing store:
eu.winwingsim.com/view/goods-...
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Lol I said quality insurance. Ofc I mean assurance.
Also:
- I said issueS in the end. That's wrong. The Gladiator suffers from the same gimbal issue (without an s), its hat switches are a lot better than the Ursa's.
- 20 degrees are twist deflection, main axes are 15
The gimbal issue being the same may have to do with the fact that it's essentially the same gimbal.
On the other hand, this WinWing stick is currently ~40% of the price of the Gladiator. I would have liked a thumbwheel/scroll-wheel on the stick, but it looks like a _really_ good value entry-level stick if it stays at or near this price.
I do not like this gimbal system at all (which is my main gripe with the Gladiators), BUT at this price, I'm very tempted to get one of these WinWing as a left stick to go with my 10YO X-52 since you really need HOSAS for Star Citizen if you intend to do any decent level of acrobatics and/or ship-to-ship combat.
This allows me more time to save the "close your eyes and think of England" amount of money for a pair of Virpil Alpha Primes and appropriate bases.
Mysh, you're the first person that I've seen review the Winwing Ursa Minor. It's incredible how competition between these flight sim companies have now made these flight sticks quite affordable, especially for people dipping their toes into the flight sim pool for the first time. Excellent, honest review as always!
Thanks mate! :) Giving my best to be honest and neutral. Some other reviews will follow shortly I guess. Expect a very technical deep dive from a fellow UA-camr. :)
And yes: so good we have competition now. A stick like the Ursa Minor was soooo long overdue. Now I'm hoping for a throttle unit from the same series.
Mom, can we have VKB Gladiator?
No dear, we have VKB Gladiator at home.
_VKB Gladiator at home._
Thanks mom!
They both trash
Thank you so much for this review.
I'm ready to update from my decade old HOTAS X, don't want to break the bank and this looks like just the option I'm looking for!!!
You're welcome! :) It'll be a great value upgrade. Big jump in quality and precision.
Apparently $110 is only the presale price, after that it will be around the same as a VKB with a Kosmosima grip. Well worth it for the presale price, at normal price I would be leaning more to the VKB for having a metal base and modular configuration.
For the same price the VKB is better, yes. But I think the prices won't change much. WinWings stuff always is "on sale". We'll see.
@@WatchMysh typical chinese product
Thank you for the review, I already pre-ordered mine when it was first announced and when the pre-order option was immediately available. This is gonna be a good upgrade for my T16000m stick. Probably gonna turn that into a secondary stick for DCS and Elite/Star Citizen.
You're welcome. And yes, it is a total upgrade over the t16000.
I’m a Star Citizen guy so you’ve got a subscriber because you’re covering Flightsticks!
Welcome to the channel :)
Oh hey it's you! Just noticed. Good luck to you with your channel! :)
What's your favorite ship? I switched from my lancer to a Zeus mkii last sale.
Brilliant review, thank you!
Thanks for the appreciation! :)
Lucky i found your channel. Been considering something new from my TM Warthog set of 8 years and a borrowed CH pedals. I'm a Star Citizen, and DCS guy mainly. Have IL2 but hardly play. The only gear i added to my sim setup lately was Eyeware Beam Eyetracker with Razer Kiyo Pro, which has good low light captures.
Welcome to the channel! :)
I just found out about this new stick. Really looks promising for an entry level or in a budget "pilots". Nice review.
Thanks! :) And yes, it's a really promising entry level stick. We had nothing recommendable in this price range so far.
Great stuff. Thanks for the review!
This will be my new stick until something new from virpil, thrustmaster or a mainstream ffb stick comes out.
Any idea what the slot in the back is used for? From looking at the manual it doesn’t look like there are any data connectors for a extension.
Thanks! :) No idea what they are up to with the slot.
This is SUPER exciting! I have been holding off on the VKB NXT-EVO in a dual stick config because of cost. I have owned some other VKB stuff and like it but spending upwards of $400 US was not in the budget. WinWing have been on my radar but again, cost. This new URSA is EXACTLY what I have been waiting for! Thanks for the info.
You're welcome! :)
Is the left hand throttle URSA not available? Doesn't show on their website. @WatchMysh
@@PCPAyLOAD They are still supplying the warehouses. Could take another few weeks I guess.
I just bought the gladiator just in time for a cheaper stick to come out. It looks like a fantastic entry level. And the fact it has vibration is a neat detail. I hope more stocks start doing that. Overall I’m glad entry level sticks are getting some long awaited innovation
Yes. Everything. It was about time.
Hey Mysh, love your videos. In fact, they convinced me to buy the winwing F-16Ex combo.
I have a question for you, though. I believe you live in Germany, right? Do you know the average shipping time to Germany from Winwing’s Europe warehouse?
Couldn’t find another place to ask you this except reddit, hope this is a good place to ask.
Thanks! :) And of course it is. It usually took 4-5 days in my case until the ordered items arrived.
Thanks for the response. Keep up the good work!
I have the X-56 Rhino and it doesn't feel cheap at all. The only thing it doesn't have that I wish it did, is one or two 5-way hats.
now we wait so much for comparison with VKB gladiator standard/pro.
And wait for updated recomendation for the best price-to-performance Hotas set.
Do You think, that it is worth to spend 2x more for VKB Pro, or Ursa is better bargain (in presale price)?
Already scripting the video ;) Sneak peek: The Gladiator still has a lot going for it (thicker material, better switches, scroll encoder, etc. ...). So I guess it's rather a question of budget than anything else. The Standard will have a harder time though since it's missing a mini stick.
@@WatchMysh hmm, ok, so if eventually to buy any VKB - only Premium version.
But vkb Premium it is now... +100% more expensive than this new Ursa Minor in presale price............. 😉 very hard choice.
Dont know if it is worth to pay 2x more.
Probably many people will now think which one of this 2 joystick to choose......
@@gregx3322 Exactly. That's the big question. I'll clear things up a bit in another video. But the choice will still remain a tough one.
Is the maximum angle of the main axis (as mentioned to be 20 degree here, 15 degree mentioned by Winwing) the same as a T16000M or less you think ?
Currently using a Thrustmaster TCA which is more or less the same as the T16000, might use this as a stepping point until I can get a setup that allows a center mounted stick
20 degrees is the twist axis, 15 are the main axes. Last time I used a t16000 was years ago ... can't say anything reliable about its deflection, sorry.
Finally!I’ve been waiting forever for a competitive flight stick to the VKB. But, did not want to buy the T16000 thrustmaster
Definetly the better choice. And still affordable.
The website is only selling the right stick, any idea as to when WW will start selling the left and Z Extension version? Also wondering if WW plan to make a Ursa Major version? Maybe that's reserved for an entry level throttle for crazy Hotasas/Hosasat users?
The launch seems to be a bit bumpy right now. I guess they will add more options over the next few days and weeks until the whole spectrum of devices is available.
A throttle would be cool, yes.
If you don't mind I have 1 more question about the Z extension for both VKB and Ursa Minor, which one has a more aggressive horizontal tilt? Meaning which one feels more like a throttle and not Anakin's angled stick Pod Racer.
@@arielis78 sorry can't answer that. I don't have a VKB Z extension here.
I'm curious about durability. We make a lot of flight gear recommendations in the SC Discord server, and a lot of people don't want to spring all the way for Gladiators, they want something cheaper. If this holds up over time, it _may_ earn a place on our recommendations list. But with it being such a close clone though, I think a lot of people will disregard it on that alone.
Hey :) I think that's more of a topic within the "informed community". A lot of people just buy whatever they get recommended. Judging from what I could test out so far they should be quite durable. But as I said (and you do, too): only time will tell. We'll have more data when I post my updated hotas overview in november. Then I'll decide whether the "aaand still" will sound again for the Gladiator or we really have a new "general recommendation" on our hands. Until then I gently ask all Ursa buyers to abuse their devices as hard as they can. ;)
I look away for a few months and this comes out? Can't say I expected an entry level stick from WW. Tempting to recommend to friends.
As for now you can. The insides like cables etc are fine. But some constructional faults only show over a longer period of usage. I think that's not very likely, though. I'll make a video if any problems should appear.
Great video, you’ve earned yourself a new subscriber :)
If you don’t mind, I’d like some advice, seeing as you are much more knowledgeable about this field than I am. I have just ordered the VKB gladiator NXT EVO (they have yet to process my order), and now WinWing dropped this.
Like you, I mostly play Star Citizen, so I want a HOSAS setup (omni throttle left). My budget per year is around €200, which allows me to buy one VKB Gladiator, or a dual setup from WinWing.
Personally, I prefer the look of the VKB slightly better, but not enough to justify twice the price (€214 for me, where the Ursas come in at €105). My main point of contention is that the VKB Gladiators are reputable, and known to be durable, where the WinWing Ursas are new and have yet to prove themselves, but they are half the price. On the one hand, I’ve heard good things about VKB and their support and I’ve also heard that WW’s support leaves a lot to be desired, but also that their products are usually very durable.
Now, I know you can’t speak to the long term durability, having only had these for a short while, but would you recommend these over the Gladiators for a starter? This would allow me to get a Tobii Eye tracker next year, instead of a second stick. I have, however, heard that the switches are somewhat loose, and that the structure gives way a little under pressure. This has me concerned over the long term durability. Also, the Ursas are supposed to have a vibration motor, which to me seems a little gimmicky, but that means that those motors ate into the production budget [leaving less for durable materials]. Both the VKBs and the WWs are supposed to be made using roughly the same materials (industry grade BPA).
My question essentially comes down to this, would you recommend me to wait a year longer for a complete VKB setup, or take the plunge [of course you don’t bear the responsibility of their long term durability] and go with WinWing? Or would you wait and hope VKB lowers their prices in response? How would you asses my dilemma?
Apologies for the long text, I wanted to give the full context of my situation. Kind regards.
Thanks for the sub! :)
Tough question. I'd say the Gladiators are still the better quality devices. Especially the hat switches. If you can afford it get the Gladiators. Also consider a Trackhat V3 instead of the Tobii. It's a lot cheaper and also gets the job done. Review is on my channel.
VKBs support also is legendary, yes. We also don't know how WinWing will handle the spare part situation. So ... the more reliably way would still be a set of Gladiators. Otherwise the Ursas are great and should also last a long while. Only time will tell us for sure, though. Like I said ... tough question.
@@WatchMysh wow, thank you for your extremely quick and detailed response! I really appreciate it. Given your preference for the Gladiators, I will wait a while with the hope that VKB lowers their prices in response, as I won’t be able to play Star Citizen for a short while anyways. I will definitely check out your review, I haven’t really looked into face/eye tracking, so I have a lot to learn! Again, thank you. Best wishes.
@@henkolsonpietersen2242 I think VKB prices won't drop. At least I'd be very surprised if they did. They have quite a solidified position on the market. But would be great if it turns out I was wrong.
@@WatchMysh Thank you very much for all your input and suggestions! I really appreciate it. I wish you all the best :)
@@henkolsonpietersen2242 Thanks mate! Appreciated! :)
0:47 the stick is not"Right or left handed" , you can buy a right or left handed version of the stick. It is not swappable like the T1600s. Just a warning. I want 2 of these for Star Citizen and right now the left handed version isn't available.
Yes, should have said "is available right or left handed". But I think it's kinda obvious it's not swappable if you watch the video. Left handed version should become available within the next weeks I guess.
@@WatchMysh no worries, just wanted people to know. It's not like you said they were.
Oh thanks. I was thinking it was swappable but couldn't figure out how given the A-symetrical design.
How could would this do for mounting to a chair between the legs?
You need to get creative since it doesn't support extensions. But... Why not? The base is kinda wide and long. Could cause some problems.
when will the C stick come in store?
That's still unclear. I expect them to become available over the next few weeks.
I tried to put in an order it but I couldn't get them to assign a warehouse for a California United States pre-order.
Figured it out. All I had to do was switch it to the US store via google (google: WinWing USA). The referral link kept sending me to another district.
Hm. Strange. Did you contact customer support? They usually can help.
@@WatchMysh, I got it working. It kept redirecting me to a different district. I just had to manually get it to switch to the US version of the store front.
@@MarkHawk awesome! :)
Am I able to lock out the Z-axis?
Yes
Can I lock it so it doesn't move if I don't use the Z-axis?
Yes
Thank you. I didn't see that part in your video and that's why I asked the question.
The twist function is a big part of why sticks fail.
@@ddobagi_1540 I've mentioned it briefly but np. :) The Ursa's twist seems to be nearly as sturdy as the Gladiator's. But if you have pedal or other means to substitute the Z axis blocking twist reduces axis bleed. Win-win.
How does it compare to T.16000M?
Very good. The t16000m isn't even close.
@@WatchMysh I'm wondering whether I should replace my old TM with Ursa Minor Airline. Do you think it's worth a shot for 60 euro?
@@DerbeQ Guess so. The gimbal alone makes a world of a difference.
Is it repairable?
You can open it up easily. At least the grip. To completely open up the base, you need to remove the anti slip pads. They aren't re-attachable, so you'll need some new ones afterwards.
It says $231 usd if you try to order it in the US
I get 115. You're sure you're not on the International store?
Welche Schubkontrolle würdest Du bevorzugen? Ich bin mit meiner (Trustmaster 16000) absolut unzufrieden. Die Kontrolle dort ist keine wirkliche.
@@AnimichileTV Hey :) Kommt auf dein Budget an. Bestes PL Verhältnis hat meiner Meinung nach die Orion2 von Winwing. Im Bereich 100-200 gibt's leider gar nichts momentan. Das könnte sich aber im Laufe der nächsten Monate ändern.
@@WatchMysh Vielen Dank. von welcher Firma sprichst Du begzüglch der nächssten Monaate?
@@AnimichileTV ich hab ein paar Gerüchte gehört, mehr kann ich dazu leider nicht sagen.
@@WatchMysh okay, dann warte ich eben :)
Hmm, a positive review from a sponsored channel. Questionable… The throttle slider position right behind the stick is awkward. Wait for an independent review.
I just received the product for free, didn't get any compensation otherwise. Winwing has no and didn't want any editorial control. I don't review products under any other conditions.
Yet I understand your concerns. Always check out multiple reviews. I personally have no problem critizising products I get sent for review. This channel isn't my main source of income so I don't care whether I get sent stuff (again) or not. I'm quite confident that other channels will give mostly positive reviews as well. At least as long as they factor in the price.
I saw these and thought these were a knock off joke... i guess theyre not lol
as a man, you should never publicly announce that you've got small hands
Thanks but the size of my hands doesn't define my or anyone's manliness
"We can copy VKB but make it cheaper by making it worse"
Well that's usually how it goes. Reduce features and quality, sell cheaper.
@@WatchMysh I am not complaining, I enjoy this category of "Plastic joystick with good mechanics and sensors". Otherwise the only real way to upgrade from my X52 was way too expensive. By "upgrade" I mean better axis control, not anything else.
VKB is under pressure now for either making their product cheaper or offering something better for the same price.
VKB have some advantage left, the additional button and axis boxes they have that connect to the gladiator.
@@batner I think the Gladiator still has a lot of good reasons to get it over the Ursa. Like the scroll encoder on the base, the momentary switch, the thicker material of the grip, the superior switches, adjustable palm rest, ... The market has been stirred up for sure, though. I'm quite curious what happens next.
Let me introduce you to VKB! Edit: in fact it appears VKB may need to sue Winwing.
Followed a lengthy discussion on that topic in the HOTAS discord. It's still there, just go back a day or two if you're interested. Conclusion was that it's kinda unlikely because there seemingly are no patents etc... but I'm not a lawyer so I don't comment until there's a solid analysis out there. New Air Land sea space news episode would follow shortly then, though. ;)
If content creators starts reveiwing rip off products, then everything is fine. I would be pissed if i was at VKB. This product is 100% identical until even the flaws! luckily it is cheap. Wonder how they create value out of it
The gimbal is 100% identical. The rest is more or less a soviet style flight grip. The base is missing the scroll encoder and momentary switch but has more buttons. Throttle is a slider. Switches are nav and not clusters. Material a bit thinner. No adjustable palm rest. They can easily generate revenue here. Also the Gladiator seems to be a bit overprized from my perspective since there wasn't any competition for it over a long stretch of time. There was nothing between super cheap sticks like the t16000 and the Gladiator. So VKB could ask for whatever they want.
Win Wing clearly stole VKB’s gimbal design (fiberglass reinforced nylon, c-extension/omni throttle adapter, dampers, and even an identical x-axis lockout plate, even the same screw pattern to attach the grip. Admittedly they do add buttons to the grip, but it’s still largely a VKB SCG. Much like they did with the Thrustmaster Warthog, WinWing just stole and undercut someone else's work. Only in this case, you don’t get superior service, tear down videos, practically instant support on Discord, and no questions asked replacement parts for easy user repair. It’s sad in this age of awful companies that expect you to just buy a new one rather than fix it a product when it inevitably breaks, you only make a single mention of the designs being the same but not any ethical considerations when recommending it "wholeheartedly." Maybe you’ll be mentioning this in a future comparison that you allude to, but you already started doing it here and didn’t bring up this topic. Since you don’t care about intellectual property, mind if I repost all your videos on my channel so I can make money off them?
I clearly state in the video that the gimbal is identical. The grip is a soviet style flight grip. The WinWing F16EX is an F16 style grip. Thrustmaster didn't invent the Warthog.
A video addressing most of what you said (Support etc) is in the making. I'll compare the Gladiator to the Ursa. That's where I'll go into the ethical factors as well.
@@WatchMysh I sure hope you do address this topic with more than a single, brief mention as well as an explanation of how you still “whole heartedly” justify recommending the Ursa Minor given this. And I never said Thrustmaster invented the Warthog just that Winwing copied their design which Thrustmaster made via working with the US Airforce in an official collaboration. And I will admit that when wing has improved on the design with a metal gimbal and kept Thrustmaster on their toes and part of the reason the Ava has come out. However, I think there is a difference between creating a replica of a real world aircraft interface that you can’t buy for home use versus copying someone else’s research and design for consumer application, don’t you?
It’s your whole hearted, unreserved recommendation that I take issue with if that is unclear.
@@EndersVRcade I should have worded it better at the end, that's true.
Where I still don't conform is the "thrustmaster copy". There are lots of F16 grips out there. What about them? The design isnt sth special or hard to replicate and every Air Force technician would be shocked about its crappy internals. I think you're barking at the wrong tree in this case.
@@WatchMysh Thank you for acknowledging the ethical aspect I raised. I in turn agree that trying to extend my position to the Thrustmaster vs Winwing topic might not be as clear cut as well.
Pretty easy to offer a similar thing at a cheaper price when you can skip R&D costs by ripping off your competitors. Wow this is some shady stuff here.... I thought WinWing was better than that, since their other stuff is pretty novel...
It's shady for sure but I guess a pincer gimbal isn't that complicated to build. In my books the Gladiator could only sell for 200+ since there wasn't any competition. You don't save 50% of the cost by copying just the gimbal which is based on decades old engineering principles and concepts. But these (copying) practices in general seem to get more and more en vogue right now... I mean the Flicontech vs Virpil story is still kinda fresh, too. I'm wondering what comes next since drama seems to have reached the hotas sphere as well now...
@@WatchMysh It's not just the base, the grip is basically a carbon copy as well. If you look at the internals it's easy to see, plastic mechanisms, PCB shape, and screw placement, all the same. It may be based on decades old engineering principles, but figuring out how to get it all to fit into a small space and work cohesively takes smarts and trial and error.
If you don't have to pay for that talent and that time, because your stealing someone else's design, you're definitely saving a bunch that you don't have to recoup with a higher sale price. Basically you can sell based on cost of materials and assembly alone.
Just a shame coming from the company that brought us the Super Taurus.
@@b34k97 I was surprised, too @ Winwing
VKB Gladiators are not novel or unique. The pincer gimbal has been around in virtually all budget to mid range sticks for decades. VKB didn't invent it, they copied predecessors too. The reason the stick part looks the same is because they are both based on the same real world military flight stick. The drama being formed is due to people not knowing history.
@@crispy9175 I mostly agree. Only thing I don't: there are 1000 ways to build a pincer gimbal. These two including the clutches are 99% identical. And Yeah... The stick is just a soviet type grip.
You could not pay me to by that CCP junk.
I am more than happy with Thrustmaster even if it’s a bit expensive.
I'm sorry to bring the news but the Thrustmaster Warthog gimbal is way worse (cup/ball/plastic) at a premium price.The latest AVA base just catches up to the competition without offering the same amount of features like the Virpil bases. If I pay premium I want a premium product. Thrustmaster just sells you a plastic gimbal and a stick made of heavy pot metal with cheaply made internals. Open it up and see for yourself.
2:37 That's a bold elietest lie... My Saitac X52 HOTAS even after 20 tyears is solid as a rock and smooth as silk with all features mentioned thanks to it high quality and mostly METAL construction for about $100 back then and today... And being a Hotas you get a real throttle and it even has modes on device for both the stick and throttle though you can separate the two which is it's main downside next to not being FFB like my Microsoft sidewinder 2 joystick which is just as hgigh contructed just not with metal planels... in fact it beats this and you can buy one any day for around $100 used... Like man why do you hate affordable options so much it really makes fligh sim look expensive when in reality you only need a $40 gamepad and $60/free mouse and keyboard to enjoy it...
I don't hate them I just say how it is. You're lucky your X52 went on for so long. It's not mostly metal though. The Pro version has some metal elements. Also the early X52s seem to have been a lot better than the later ones. That would explain why yours is still fine. Get a recent one, open it up, compare it to the Ursa Minor and you'll see.
In my flight sim noob guide I talk a lot about just using a gamepad and being fine. So... please refrain from calling me a "liar". Critique is okay but not like that.
What exactly is an elitist lie? You trying to compare a 20 yr old plastic toy to anything that Winwing, VKB or Virpil has released is comical. Btw, have you ever tried out a flight stick or throttle from Winwing, VKB or Virpil?
I think it's just a comparison. Wouldn't call it an elitest lie. I've also owned a range of flight sticks from the 3d extreme pro to the VKB gladiator. Different strokes for different folks (:
the x52 potentiometers are absolutely terrible especially the slider, and the software barely runs well these days.