This is by far the best tutorial on annealing and hardness testing I have seen so far. I usually don't feel compelled to comment on youtube videos but this really is a great insight into the whole process. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and for the comment David (feel free to share this with your reloading friends), being an electrical Engineer Bruce really knows his stuff, and we all love how freely he shares his knowledge, while also keeping everything understandable. All the best, cheers. Russ
I just tried an experiment where I sized a brass that was NOT annealed, then annealed the same piece of brass and sized it again. Taking measurements before and after each time. All without adjusting the sizing die. Without annealing, the shoulder would not bump back at all. After annealing, it bumped back to exactly where I wanted it. This tells me that brass was springing back after being sized. Annealing definitely makes the brass malleable. Thank you for sharing all of this information.
Thanks Vitor, yep Bruce certainly did a Rolls-Royce job of solving annealing. 👌 Thanks for watching, please share this video to spread the word. 🤞 Cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 uhhh... what am I missing here? Induction annealing has been around since the early 1900s... used in reloading for more that 20 years.
@@OvertonWindex Yep but Bruce has cracked the whole thing (in his man cave) with his own take on the process, using a home-built machine that can be very precisely controlled, and where the results are quantified precisely with hardness testing, to guarantee quality. Cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 or flame annealing fir that matter... there's thousands of bench source style home made machines out there. I heard very little information on the actual hardness characteristics in this video. Sounds like he doesn't know much. He's just made an induction annealer...
Excellent work Bruce. Thanks for the honest info. I anneal at very high temps, 750-800 C for 3 to 4 seconds after an initial one off case anneal of 10 seconds. I had the same questions you did about how to know what the actual brass hardness would be. After studying every research paper I could find, I decided to use high temps which were proven to produce 100% recrystallization. The case neck & shoulder are definitely softer as you mentioned but, I've had no problems after 12 anneal cycles &, the seating & sizing has been superb. I can vary the neck tension between 3 to 4 Lbs up to 50 to 60 Lbs by full length sizing with a standard die with the inside mandrel removed. I had no idea that those Webster gauges existed. I'll have to get one.
Thanks Dan and thank-you for watching, feel free to share-away. 🤓 Don't forget to check-out the short follow-up, where Bruce reveals what he learned about why the 30-06 brass melted: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html All the best, cheers. Russ
Brilliant tutorial from a guy who’s clearly knowledgeable, practical and competent in so many fields. I’m a drill and blowtorch annealer but I’ve learned a lot and am inspired to find out more about zero volt switches to possibly build my own annealer.
Great to know our videos are useful, thanks for watching and feel free to share. Our shorter follow-up video explains how the 30-06 brass melted quicker too: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=nGku918K_YkC1GiT All the best, cheers. Russ
We use brass alloys for engraving and key cutting. Although they look identical, they are very different alloys. The engraving brass has some lead content to soften it, as does the brass used for key making, but in a different ratio and with more zinc. There is an acceptable tollerance of ratios, and each batch of brass ingots from which they draw the blanks can be different. For example, we used to sharpen milling cutters every 5,000 cuttings on keyways. ( Good quality german brass). Chinese bought brass blunted the cutters every 1000. ( Bulked out with all sorts of scrap metal.!!). Every batch of cases can be different. You would need to assay each batch for absolute precision. You are spot-on Bruce...great video.!
Our pleasure, I was absolutely fascinated filming this as I was learning a lot from Bruce as he explained everything, both beforehand and on camera. Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Great video. I have a Burstfire torch annealing machine myself. This was a pleasant video to watch while drinking my coffee on a Sunday morning. Lots of good information!
Thanks Ken and thanks for watching. :) Have you seen our shorter follow-up vid where Bruce explains more about US brass? ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Please share and spread the word. All the best, cheers. Russ
I've got the AMP and lemme tell ya, it works & Alex has made it so much simpler to anneal. It saves a ton of time too. I liked the AMP annealer so much I bought the AMP press to pair em up for a greater insight to just how well the anneal process and my reloading process is working. Shot my smallest group after using that combo at a 1k yds. I was annealing with flame incorrectly, but I had no idea. I thought it was correct, but it was far from it. wish I could share a story on here about the reason why Lapua is so consistent over others. I was sworn to secrecy after speaking to the very man that put that process into place at Lapua. Let's just say there is "a" reason why Lapua was selected as the brass maker of choice for the US SOCOM sniper rifle.
Bruce is amazing. Great explanation of the annealing process. I anneal brass for a long range 6mm BR Rem rifle with a seriously tight neck of .262. Bench rest accuracy in a sporting rifle. These rounds are no longer made nor is the brass. Lapua changed the dimensions of the 6mm BR in the 90's and those rounds won't fit my old custom made rifle. I have maybe 100-150 pieces of 6mm BR REM (not 6mm BR Lapua) brass left for a rifle with 1 mao accuracy at 300 yards, or slightly less than 300 meters. I would hate to have to ream the chamber of my rifle for the new 6mm BR SAAMI specs, so I am treating that remaining brass like gold. Who knows if the newly reamed chamber will shoot like this tack driver does now. Don't wanna find out. Would be like loosing an old friend. Listening to Bruce helped me to better understand why I am going to all this annealing trouble. Brilliant video. Glad to see that there approximately 1000 other confirmed brass nerds like me!
We're both always happy to help, incidentally I don't think many folk have watched the shorter follow-up video we did, where Bruce explains more he learned about the properties of U.S brass. ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
The larger cases take less time to anneal because they are closer to the induction coils. If you make new coils for each type of brass keeping the number of windings and the distance from the center of the coils to the case walls consistent you should have very little variation in the time it takes to anneal the different cases. I still suspect that the larger cases will need less time since the amount of material being heated by the induction field is higher. Its like a very powerful magnet not having nearly as much strength when attached to a small piece of metal as it does with a big block.
Our shorter follow-up video explains how the 30-06 brass melted quicker: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=nGku918K_YkC1GiT All the best, cheers. Russ
Thank you! Answered all my questions on the topic of annealing in general and confirming the results. Personally I'm sold on your process and the service you're offering.
I was like you Bruce, in that I needed to know how much I was annealing and I hit on the idea of using the LEE lead hardness tester. Works great. Also, after finding your Webster for 36 quid, why did you not also buy a lottery ticket?!
I use the Annealeeze machine, $275 USD. It works fantastic, load the hopper and let it rip. Best, cheapest automated unit IMO. Totally adjustable time, dwell. I adjust it for different calibers (I had to buy a set of extra wheels for belted magnums). I did 300 today in 1/2 hour, every one looks perfect. I set the time/speed with the lights out and get the brass dull red.
Cheers for the heads-up Gregory. I watched a video on the Annaleeze machine and it looks half-decent, but what's missing is the hardness testing, to quickly and precisely identify for any particular batch of cases the exact time required to achieve annealing. That's where Bruce came up trumps with his method, plus it's that bit safer without a naked flame, which some reloaders would prefer. Cheers. Russ
It would be nice to see hardness test results after using this method- maybe 25% batch testing on production and also cutting a case to see how far the heat is transferring past the shoulder.
@@RussDouglas222 Yeah, if we could get a Webster for less than $3-400, that'd be great. AND they still have to be modified, filed down, to accept the case mouths whilst still providing support to the necks. So, if one can't test the hardness it's all just a shot in the dark!
Absolutely fantastic explanation of process and science. I'm really new with this process I think I've learned more here than anything that I have read or seen prior.
Thanks very much John, and thanks for watching... we recorded a wee follow-up a few weeks later, where Bruce explained why the US 30-06 brass melted so easily. Feel free to share. 🙏😇 All the best, cheers. Russ
The answer to the question at the 34 minute mark would be one of two things or both, Copper content at the low end like 85% leaving a higher zinc content and making it softer or case thickness. Like you said it is a very old and might I add a very powerful cartridge capable of downing anything in north America. I'm a Ex- foundryman from my Navy days. Lot's of great information on this and thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge on this subject. It definitely answered a few of my own questions.
Hi Bruce and Russ, I saw that someone answered your question about why the 30-06 brass heated up quicker, but I wanted to add my point of view. I saw on another annealing video that the distance between the coil and the brass effects how quickly the brass heats. Since the neck of the 22-250 is further from the coil (a smaller diameter) than the neck of the 30-06 brass' neck I would think that could partially explain why the brass heated up more quickly. Also the 30-06 brass is longer and more of it would be inside the coil unless you somehow lowered the platform or raised the coil to adjust for that. I thoroughly enjoyed this video and all of the information you were able to provide. Thank you and Russ for taking the time and energy to share this with people interested in this topic.
Thanks very much Mark (and thanks for watching)... Yep Bruce can adjust the height of the shelf, so the neck is always in the right position, regardless of the case length. I'll let Bruce reply re the .30" brass being one millimetre closer to the coil, but I'm not sure that would have such a dramatic effect as I assume anything within the coil would heat-up, and perhaps the induction would even be more focused / greater towards the centre? All the best, cheers. Russ
Having annealed quite a lot more brass than when the video was made, my observations are that European brass such as Lapua, Sako, Norma and PPU can all be annealed with same cycle time of around 8 seconds. However, US made brass such as Hornady, Winchester and Remington will melt when annealed for 8 seconds. The 30-06 case which melted was Hornady brass I annealed a batch of Lapua 6.5 Creedmor brass for a friend and one case melted. It turned out to be a Hornady case that got mixed up with the Lapua
All Bruce's idea, but he can see everyone's comments. Thank-you and thanks for watching (feel free to share) and in our shorter follow-on video (ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=okoogEL0VhCH0zr4) he explains why the 30-06 brass melted, cheers. Russ
Thank-you for watching/commenting, feel free to share... and have you seen our shorter follow-on where Bruce answers the question about the 30-06 brass melting? ...ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=HjRl5nH0SspQoTP6 All the best, cheers. Russ
Induction annealing heats the brass just as stated in the video however the more material that is inside the induction field the faster it will heat. That is why the 30-06 brass melted so quickly vs the 22-250 brass being perfectly annealed at 8 seconds. That is the simple answer. There is a much more in depth answer that involves molecules and density, of course. We use induction annealing where I work for annealing the first few inches of steel rods, of varying diameter, after they have been work hardened by being cut. Plus, the 30-06 brass has larger diameter than the 22-250 so the material is closer to the coil, closer to the coils means it is in the more 'energetic portion of the induction field.
Another huge factor is that brass close to the coil heats faster than brass farther away. Therefore, larger diameter cases will heat faster than one of the same mass of a smaller diameter. This is due to the magnetic flux being denser closer to the coil windings than in the center of the coil.
Thanks for watching Jonathan, feel free to share this video and my follow-up (ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html), where Bruce answers the question as to why the 30-06 brass melted. Cheers. Russ
Great video and data shared. Another interesting peice of data i found from another man testing annealing of the same method with a vickers hardness tester. What he found was that if you anneal a piece of brass at a specific temp and time it softens it to a specific point. Once cooled, if you anneal it the same exact way once more or ten times more, the hardness will be the same. More time or higher temps or both would be needed to decrease the hardness further. Very interesting what science can do for our hobbies.
This was so very interesting!! Gained a lot of knowledge from Bruce. Love his annealing machine! Thank you so VERY MUCH for sharing all this valuable information. Wish a person could purchase a machine like his. Thanks again!
Bruce, thanks for a brilliant explanation. You've taken what's always been a mystery to me and made it make sense. Merry Christmas and cheers 🍻 from South Texas
I believe the 30-06 melted because the out side diameter is larger and closer to the coils. Also the quality of brass from manufacture to manufacture is different, as you know. I know this because I have sectioned cases and measured them with a ball mic. On lesser quality brass as much as .003 difference around the case wall thickness. On Lapua I found .0002 to .0007 in case thickness. The machine that I built has a smaller coil compared to yours. Mine takes about 5 seconds to do a case. What I have done is place a non metallic tube ( case pacific ) in the center of my coil and adjust it to be 3/8 to 1/2 inch above the case when the case is dropped in. This sets the case prefect in the coil center as to heat the case evenly around the out side. I took temps of the case out side when placed in my coil not centered and found there to be a difference from side to side. I love how your drops the case out. Thanks for the video Rick D.
Hi Richard, nope Bruce reveals the real answer to why the 30-06 case melted in our follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html (more folk need to watch this after the main video). Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
For ingenuity and information this video is five stars, but in reality for a 1,000+ round target shooter such as myself it is impractical and time consuming. I use Lapua brass and collet neck size only, the brass never seems to crack, and when or if it does I will buy more. With the north American powder shortage my brass should last forever.
You stated that if you put a piece of iron bar into the coil that the power supply would overload because the bar is larger and denser than the cartridge brass. Same thing with the larger 30-06 brass, more metal to heat up and draw more power. Good job.
Hi bud, nope -we had so many queries about the U.S 30-06 brass melting so easily, so I recorded Bruce explaining this as a shorter follow-up here: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching and please share, cheers. Russ
Good video, the board driving the work coil is a ZVS driver (zero voltage switch) and free oscilates based on the inductance of the work coil and the capacitors on the board. Increasing the coupling of the coil (having the coil closer to the brass) is good to get good energy transfer into the brass but also raises the lowers the inductance and increases osscilation frequency of the system, this can be bad for the capacitors as the voltage will increase across them and their capacitve reactance will cause more impedence and hence more heat in the capacitors. Adding more capcitors or putting more turns on the coil will lower the osscilation frequency to counter this. Also the eddy currents ive found will heat the case mouth first even if the coil is put more to the middle of the case, this is because the brass is thinner at the top and less energy is required to heat it.
This is a great video. Thank you. Also I'm a tech and love the anealer you built. Close to the one I have in mind but with a much smaller footprint if possible even smaller than the 2 commercial units on the market and with an auto case feed. Now can you find a way to use a Lee lead hardness tester to do case testing too, although there's that microscope again? And a darn small one at that. This would be great for us that already have them and are definitely extremely money challenged. Lol. My main reason for anealing my brass is to make it last as long as I can. And I'm really old school on this. A hand drill and torch at night outside with those blood sucking mosquitoes.
...and the rest of us struggle a bit to keep up, but he makes things as approachable as possible, 'cause he's good that way. Thanks for watching. 👍 Cheers. Russ
I like Bruce for lots of reasons, one is because he looks like my Boss, two because he sounds like William Wallace and three he is a very clever man kind of re reminds me of Doc from back to the future, you are so lucky to have a friend like him cracking video Russ and as mentioned below this video should get thousands of views well done mate.
Cheers Simon, he'll roll his eyes (or say "feck off!") for me for saying this, but he's literally a national treasure for us shooters and NV/thermal users. Oh believe me I know I'm very lucky, when I discovered one of the UK's experts on NV & thermal lived half an hour away (and is friendly, down-to-earth, approachable and explains technical shee-it so even I can understand - result! Are you going to the British Shooting Show next weekend, hope to see you on Fri or Sat if you are? All the best, cheers. Russ Ps. Feel free to share this to help spread the word? ;o)
Hi James, yes but also the quality / hardness of the brass stock -as Bruce revealed (re the 30-06 casing melting) in this shorter follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
This is proper shed boffin science!. Thanks for an excellent walkthrough your process and findings. I would love to find one of those harness testers lurking in the back of a junk shop in my neck of woods so i can see if my flame annealing guided by tempilaq is actually doing any good.
Thanks Ekim, I know Bruce will appreciate your comment/compliment just as I do. 👍 Thanks for watching, and feel free to share. 👏 All the best, cheers. Russ
Annealing is less to prevent cases splitting and more to ensure uniform brass, more specifically to ensure uniform neck tension. Cartridge primer pockets usually come loose long before you get necks splitting. In really good brass like Lapua, depending on cal, you can end up with reloads into double figures until eventually the growth or migration of brass from head to neck prevents it from chambering. I have yet to see a neck split but I anneal every single firing. Also, PLENTY of deerstalkers and vermin shooters anneal! With the cost of brass and long range shots needing precision it’s essential to ensure uniform well prepped brass. Most stalkers I know who reload also anneal. Almost all long range vermin controllers I know anneal. I have done it for years. Shooters today are generally far better informed than a few decades ago. All kudos to Bruce. Enthusiasm and talent plus great at presenting what could be a dry subject and making it a must see!
Hello from FRANCE Thanks so much for posting a such video. I've made my own annealer like yours. For testing the hardness on my annealed cases I had to go to university (mettalurgic laboratory) in Toulouse where my colleagues work. I could like this, set the right amount of time for annealing my Lapua 220 Russian brass converted to 6 PPC. Now, and thanks so much to you, I've purchased the same tool as the one you use. I'm able to change calibers and I won't have to return to university for testing. Congratulations sir. Are you in UK ? Regards Patrice
@@cottespatrice8847 Hello Patrice from Scotland. 👋 Thank-you and thanks for watching, this device is all (NV boffin) Bruce's work -he's the boffin behind it, I just filmed and edited this -and the follow-on video. (In this he explained why the 30-06 brass melted so quickly... ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=V97_9iewhfN0bQJw) All the best, cheers. Russ
I would suggest that the bigger cases require less time due to the fact that there is more brass in there. As your machine runs off electromagnetic fields, the strength and size of the field does not change between cases, and the electromagnetic field produced is larger than the case. Therefore when a larger piece of brass is placed inside that field, it is in contact with more of the field. The smaller the brass you use, the more time you'll need to get the same result as it in contact with less of the electromagnetic field. Theoretically there would be a tipping point whereby increasing the size of the brass in the field would eventually slow the rate of change due to the rate of heat exchange. I would be interested to see what would happen to a solid piece of brass in your machine at say 4 seconds...
Actually Corey it's a slightly less technical explanation than that, have you watched our short follow-up video? ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 I'm not sure what whoever tested salt bath annealing did to test it but, it absolutely does work because I have a number of scientific research papers on annealing 70:30 cartridge brass & salt bath & lead bath were employed. There's no reason why it wouldn't as it is simply heating the brass.
When I anneal one time I dunged the brass in water an it rehardened an was cracking when seating bullets so I had to reaneal 300 rounds, number, never did that again, now I just air dry an they stay soft...
Maybe it was already covered somewhere else, but I was curious what Bruce's education / training / experience is/was that gave him the background to tackle this project? Clearly, from the look of his shop he is somewhat a jack of all trades, but specifically related to the electrical knowledge needed to have an understanding of what was necessary to make this project work? Engineering, Electrician, factory mechanic, military, etc? Thanks!
Bruce is an electrical and instrument engineer and spent his career designing and building inspection equipment for the oil & gas industry. Plus being an avid shooter he's been reloading for many years, as well as even building himself a thermal scope once or twice. He knows his stuff and is very helpful. 👍 Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 I was going to say...if he picked-up all that knowledge just as a retirement hobby, I've got a long way to go! Thank you, now I don't feel as inadequate for not knowing half as much ... :- /
Hi it was the Webster Model W-20B, which at the time Bruce bought from Amazon for £30 - then it skyrocketed in price(!) As you saw he did adapt it slightly for his needs too. Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Ah have you seen our shorter follow-up video, where Bruce explained the answer - US brass is softer! ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
33:41 xD I think that's because the magnetic fields are stronger closer to the coils and weakest at the center of the loop. The 30-06 has a larger diameter, placing the walls of the brass in a stronger magnetic field.
Haha nope, quite a few viewers have suggested this as the solution, but Bruce reveals the surprising real answer in our shorter follow-up video... ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Very informative and an enjoyable listen. Could it be that the 30-06(larger brass) has a greater interaction due to surface area with the electrical field and therefore temperature obtained in less time?
Thanks Ian and thanks for watching - feel free to share. 🙏 As we had so many queries and opinions we recorded a shorter follow-up video where Bruce explained the simple-but-surprising answer: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html All the best, cheers. Russ
I'm afraid Bruce has only made one of these machines, for his own use. I've since heard from other viewers these hardness testers are now either difficult to source here in the UK, or are very expensive. Sorry. Good luck sourcing one, and thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Sorry Harry not quite, I recorded a follow-up after this, so Bruce could explain the real reasons, after I received a lot of incorrect guesses... ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=NSxVzw2wLTTBdUfY Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Extremely informative and useful video. Great home made design. With new handheld Induction heaters becoming available for under USD $200, one major question remains answered only by Bruce and by the high-end brass annealing machines from down under. That is brass hardness AFTER the annealing. Here is a question for Bruce: I would like to use a Laser Thermometer, that can be purchased for under USD $50 that can measure accurately and VERY QUICKLY temps up to 1300-1400 deg C. Can Bruce develop "prima facie evidence" for the correct brass hardness based on the brass temp of the CASES in his induction annealing machine. If that can me developed with reasonable correlation of Case neck Temperature vs the Case neck hardness, we can start using the $200 factory made induction heaters along with a $50 thermometer to set up the time to heat a case (which will be individual based on the case, manufacturer and the coil one is using). That would be awesome to know for the occasional annealer, who is interested in the correct science and hardness, but does not have the budget or otherwise is not interested in investing a lot in annealing equipment and hardness testers. THANKS A LOT in advance.
The reason for the 06 melt. Its the current in the brass. Think of the eddy currents as the out put of a generator (a shorted generator in this case) there are three ways to control power. The strength of the magnetic field, the speed of the magnetic field acting on the conductor, the size of the conductor that the magnetic field is acting apon. In this case the speed is the hz of the power supply, the power supply is almost certainly voltage fixed therefore magnetic field fixed (although I will bet you can hear the load difference). So by putting a bigger conductor in the equal speed and magnetic field more eddy currents are induced thus much more heat. a slight increase in mag field due to diameter would also exist.
Thanks Brian and thanks for watching (please share to spread the word 🙏) ...ah I've passed-on several such requests to Bruce, from viewers who'd like to buy this, but alas he's mostly retired now and has no plans to mass-produce this cool DIY gadget. 🤷🏻♂ All the best, cheers. Russ
Bruce you answered your why the 30 06 melted. the key to induction it the resistance of the brass the loser the resistant the higher the current flowing in the conductor. this could be due to thickness or just the mix used to make the brass.
@@stanants8566 Hi Stan, have you seen our shorter follow-on video, where Bruce explains why the 30-06 brass melted? ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Sorry nope, if you checkout our follow-up video (ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=4MGzNDZ8FyK9pxAa) Bruce explains American brass is simply slightly softer than European brass. 🤷🏻♂️ Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Nope 🤓 we filmed a shorter follow-up vid so Bruce could explain the answer... ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=2OxXIr6BzrQF0Mw_ Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Did Bruce test the hardness of brass after different timings? 5, 6. 7, 8 seconds and beyond? As long as the case doesn't get destroyed, does it progressively softer or stop at a certain hardness until it becomes a liquid? That's the thing with induction, you can destroy a case in short time, whereas gas annealing it would be hard to destroy cases, unless you heat the case head. That hardness tester is pretty cool though, nice to know what the hardness of the brass was before and after annealing it.
Hi Phil, yep he thoroughly ran through different timings with each case until he determined exactly how long was required to restore the brass to it's original / un-fired hardness. At that point he stopped as he'd achieved his goal and anything more would be a waste of his time - although yes if you continue with induction each case can eventually get too soft to hold its shape. Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Hi Steve from Suffolk UK 🇬🇧 because the brass is still as thin as the 2225 but is a lot larger area and the way your home made device works with the electrical current it will heat up that bit quicker. If the bigger diameter cartridge was thicker therefore taking longer because of the mass and surface area is more balanced?
Hi Steve, have you seen our follow-on video where Bruce revealed the reason the 30-06 brass heated faster and melted? He discovered (based upon testing multiple brands) that American brass is simply softer than european brass. 🤷🏻♂️ Cheers. Russ
Would love to see what your hardness test after brass is annealed (from video it went from17 down to 13) but then after same brass is resized. Curious if that takes it back to 17? Good video and very informative!
Great work Bruce and a very well put together video. Two questions - 1) What happens if you anneal a piece of brass twice in a row? 2) Using your Webster hardness tester, how does flamed annealing compare? Cheers Scott
Thanks Scott, I'll ask Bruce this but I doubt he's ever done this as it's a waste of effort; shooting hardens the brass risking split cases from further use and annealing returns it to its natural level of hardness, simples. Obviously flamed annealing might rarely be as consistent, and is naturally more hazardous. You could go to a lot of effort to set-up a mechanical production line, ensuring each case was rotated within a flame for a set period, but as you can see Bruce's method is quick, considerably safer / less hazardous and is very consistent. Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
@@theaveragearmedcitizen9821 But why would you? 🤷🏻♂️ Annealing (once) restores a brass case to its natural state and prevents brittle (fired) brass from splitting during firing. I'll check with Bruce but I doubt accidentally annealing twice would cause any damage to the case. 🤔
Not necessarily, have you watched our shorter follow-up vid, where Bruce reveals the answer? ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
The induction only heats whatever metal's in the centre of the induction ring, although if you left it in long enough the heat would spread up and down from that point. Thanks for watching, feel free to share it and spread the word of Bruce's ingenuity. Cheers. Russ
Because the neck of the brass is much thinner than the rest of the case and therefore has a higher resistance. The same eddy currents are flowing around all of the brass inside the coil, but the higher resistance at the neck of the case causes that area to heat up much more quickly
How did you modify the Webster Hardness Tester to allow 30 cal cases to fit? just grind away or what? Metal seems to be reallllly hard, and it seems you need to maintain the distance between the head and the anvil and remove metal from the other parts of the anvil until the case fits?
Realy great tutorial ,kindly 2 questions regarding annealing machine and hardness tester modification: It is possible to order the annealer by Mr. Bruce ? and how adapt the skin of the probe on the hardness tester ? Many thanks for any information.
Sorry, Bruce has been asked before if he'd make these to sell, but now he's retired so not doing that. I'll direct Bruce here to answer your query. Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
I removed the anvil and sanded it on a belt sander to remove enough metal to allow the anvil to fit inside a .20 calibre cartridge. I did not sand the upper surface of the mandrel so that it remained smooth and the distance from the indentor to the surface was unchanged
This is by far the best tutorial on annealing and hardness testing I have seen so far. I usually don't feel compelled to comment on youtube videos but this really is a great insight into the whole process. Thank you.
Thanks for watching and for the comment David (feel free to share this with your reloading friends), being an electrical Engineer Bruce really knows his stuff, and we all love how freely he shares his knowledge, while also keeping everything understandable.
All the best, cheers. Russ
I just tried an experiment where I sized a brass that was NOT annealed, then annealed the same piece of brass and sized it again. Taking measurements before and after each time. All without adjusting the sizing die. Without annealing, the shoulder would not bump back at all. After annealing, it bumped back to exactly where I wanted it. This tells me that brass was springing back after being sized. Annealing definitely makes the brass malleable. Thank you for sharing all of this information.
How does this video have so few views? It's an amazing lecture on induction annealing!
Thanks Vitor, yep Bruce certainly did a Rolls-Royce job of solving annealing. 👌
Thanks for watching, please share this video to spread the word. 🤞
Cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 uhhh... what am I missing here? Induction annealing has been around since the early 1900s... used in reloading for more that 20 years.
@@OvertonWindex Yep but Bruce has cracked the whole thing (in his man cave) with his own take on the process, using a home-built machine that can be very precisely controlled, and where the results are quantified precisely with hardness testing, to guarantee quality.
Cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 that's exactly the same as any other guy out there induction annealing
@@RussDouglas222 or flame annealing fir that matter... there's thousands of bench source style home made machines out there.
I heard very little information on the actual hardness characteristics in this video.
Sounds like he doesn't know much. He's just made an induction annealer...
Excellent work Bruce. Thanks for the honest info.
I anneal at very high temps, 750-800 C for 3 to 4 seconds after an initial one off case anneal of 10 seconds. I had the same questions you did about how to know what the actual brass hardness would be.
After studying every research paper I could find, I decided to use high temps which were proven to produce 100% recrystallization. The case neck & shoulder are definitely softer as you mentioned but, I've had no problems after 12 anneal cycles &, the seating & sizing has been superb. I can vary the neck tension between 3 to 4 Lbs up to 50 to 60 Lbs by full length sizing with a standard die with the inside mandrel removed.
I had no idea that those Webster gauges existed. I'll have to get one.
Love the engineering mindset. Now I need to anneal my 6mm ARC brass, Thanks to both of you for your valuable time and effort.
Thanks Dan and thank-you for watching, feel free to share-away. 🤓
Don't forget to check-out the short follow-up, where Bruce reveals what he learned about why the 30-06 brass melted: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
All the best, cheers. Russ
Brilliant tutorial from a guy who’s clearly knowledgeable, practical and competent in so many fields. I’m a drill and blowtorch annealer but I’ve learned a lot and am inspired to find out more about zero volt switches to possibly build my own annealer.
Great to know our videos are useful, thanks for watching and feel free to share.
Our shorter follow-up video explains how the 30-06 brass melted quicker too: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=nGku918K_YkC1GiT
All the best, cheers. Russ
I hit wrong button and this video is 100 % accurate and good for people to see
We use brass alloys for engraving and key cutting. Although they look identical, they are very different alloys. The engraving brass has some lead content to soften it, as does the brass used for key making, but in a different ratio and with more zinc. There is an acceptable tollerance of ratios, and each batch of brass ingots from which they draw the blanks can be different. For example, we used to sharpen milling cutters every 5,000 cuttings on keyways. ( Good quality german brass). Chinese bought brass blunted the cutters every 1000. ( Bulked out with all sorts of scrap metal.!!). Every batch of cases can be different. You would need to assay each batch for absolute precision. You are spot-on Bruce...great video.!
I must say your video indicates the importance of research to achieve the correct outcome, very informative and the enjoyable. 😎
Thank-you that's all down to Bruce's hard work.
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Thank you gentlemen for taking the time to make this video.
Our pleasure, I was absolutely fascinated filming this as I was learning a lot from Bruce as he explained everything, both beforehand and on camera.
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Great video. I have a Burstfire torch annealing machine myself. This was a pleasant video to watch while drinking my coffee on a Sunday morning. Lots of good information!
Thank-you, and thanks for watching.
Cheers. Russ
i just want to go hang out with this guy and learn!
Wounderful clear descriptions
Thank-you and thanks for watching.
Happy shooting! Cheers. Russ
This was awesome. Bruce knows what he’s talking about!
Thanks Ken and thanks for watching. :)
Have you seen our shorter follow-up vid where Bruce explains more about US brass?
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Please share and spread the word.
All the best, cheers. Russ
I've got the AMP and lemme tell ya, it works & Alex has made it so much simpler to anneal. It saves a ton of time too. I liked the AMP annealer so much I bought the AMP press to pair em up for a greater insight to just how well the anneal process and my reloading process is working. Shot my smallest group after using that combo at a 1k yds. I was annealing with flame incorrectly, but I had no idea. I thought it was correct, but it was far from it. wish I could share a story on here about the reason why Lapua is so consistent over others. I was sworn to secrecy after speaking to the very man that put that process into place at Lapua. Let's just say there is "a" reason why Lapua was selected as the brass maker of choice for the US SOCOM sniper rifle.
Bruce is amazing. Great explanation of the annealing process. I anneal brass for a long range 6mm BR Rem rifle with a seriously tight neck of .262. Bench rest accuracy in a sporting rifle. These rounds are no longer made nor is the brass. Lapua changed the dimensions of the 6mm BR in the 90's and those rounds won't fit my old custom made rifle. I have maybe 100-150 pieces of 6mm BR REM (not 6mm BR Lapua) brass left for a rifle with 1 mao accuracy at 300 yards, or slightly less than 300 meters. I would hate to have to ream the chamber of my rifle for the new 6mm BR SAAMI specs, so I am treating that remaining brass like gold. Who knows if the newly reamed chamber will shoot like this tack driver does now. Don't wanna find out. Would be like loosing an old friend. Listening to Bruce helped me to better understand why I am going to all this annealing trouble. Brilliant video. Glad to see that there approximately 1000 other confirmed brass nerds like me!
We're both always happy to help, incidentally I don't think many folk have watched the shorter follow-up video we did, where Bruce explains more he learned about the properties of U.S brass. ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
The larger cases take less time to anneal because they are closer to the induction coils. If you make new coils for each type of brass keeping the number of windings and the distance from the center of the coils to the case walls consistent you should have very little variation in the time it takes to anneal the different cases. I still suspect that the larger cases will need less time since the amount of material being heated by the induction field is higher.
Its like a very powerful magnet not having nearly as much strength when attached to a small piece of metal as it does with a big block.
Our shorter follow-up video explains how the 30-06 brass melted quicker: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=nGku918K_YkC1GiT
All the best, cheers. Russ
Thank you!
Answered all my questions on the topic of annealing in general and confirming the results. Personally I'm sold on your process and the service you're offering.
Bruce your bloody brilliant.
I've told him this many times. :o) Cheers. Russ
I was like you Bruce, in that I needed to know how much I was annealing and I hit on the idea of using the LEE lead hardness tester. Works great. Also, after finding your Webster for 36 quid, why did you not also buy a lottery ticket?!
I use the Annealeeze machine, $275 USD. It works fantastic, load the hopper and let it rip. Best, cheapest automated unit IMO. Totally adjustable time, dwell. I adjust it for different calibers (I had to buy a set of extra wheels for belted magnums). I did 300 today in 1/2 hour, every one looks perfect. I set the time/speed with the lights out and get the brass dull red.
Cheers for the heads-up Gregory. I watched a video on the Annaleeze machine and it looks half-decent, but what's missing is the hardness testing, to quickly and precisely identify for any particular batch of cases the exact time required to achieve annealing.
That's where Bruce came up trumps with his method, plus it's that bit safer without a naked flame, which some reloaders would prefer.
Cheers. Russ
It would be nice to see hardness test results after using this method- maybe 25% batch testing on production and also cutting a case to see how far the heat is transferring past the shoulder.
@@RussDouglas222 Yeah, if we could get a Webster for less than $3-400, that'd be great. AND they still have to be modified, filed down, to accept the case mouths whilst still providing support to the necks. So, if one can't test the hardness it's all just a shot in the dark!
Absolutely fantastic explanation of process and science. I'm really new with this process I think I've learned more here than anything that I have read or seen prior.
Thanks very much John, and thanks for watching... we recorded a wee follow-up a few weeks later, where Bruce explained why the US 30-06 brass melted so easily.
Feel free to share. 🙏😇
All the best, cheers. Russ
The answer to the question at the 34 minute mark would be one of two things or both, Copper content at the low end like 85% leaving a higher zinc content and making it softer or case thickness. Like you said it is a very old and might I add a very powerful cartridge capable of downing anything in north America. I'm a Ex- foundryman from my Navy days. Lot's of great information on this and thank you for sharing your valuable knowledge on this subject. It definitely answered a few of my own questions.
Thanks very much Paul, have you seen our short follow-up video?
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Hi Bruce and Russ, I saw that someone answered your question about why the 30-06 brass heated up quicker, but I wanted to add my point of view. I saw on another annealing video that the distance between the coil and the brass effects how quickly the brass heats. Since the neck of the 22-250 is further from the coil (a smaller diameter) than the neck of the 30-06 brass' neck I would think that could partially explain why the brass heated up more quickly. Also the 30-06 brass is longer and more of it would be inside the coil unless you somehow lowered the platform or raised the coil to adjust for that. I thoroughly enjoyed this video and all of the information you were able to provide. Thank you and Russ for taking the time and energy to share this with people interested in this topic.
Thanks very much Mark (and thanks for watching)...
Yep Bruce can adjust the height of the shelf, so the neck is always in the right position, regardless of the case length.
I'll let Bruce reply re the .30" brass being one millimetre closer to the coil, but I'm not sure that would have such a dramatic effect as I assume anything within the coil would heat-up, and perhaps the induction would even be more focused / greater towards the centre?
All the best, cheers. Russ
Having annealed quite a lot more brass than when the video was made, my observations are that European brass such as Lapua, Sako, Norma and PPU can all be annealed with same cycle time of around 8 seconds. However, US made brass such as Hornady, Winchester and Remington will melt when annealed for 8 seconds. The 30-06 case which melted was Hornady brass
I annealed a batch of Lapua 6.5 Creedmor brass for a friend and one case melted. It turned out to be a Hornady case that got mixed up with the Lapua
Excellent! My biggest challenge was same as yours is/was to figure out the height adjustment. I'll have to borrow your idea, its pretty simple.
All Bruce's idea, but he can see everyone's comments.
Thank-you and thanks for watching (feel free to share) and in our shorter follow-on video (ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=okoogEL0VhCH0zr4) he explains why the 30-06 brass melted, cheers. Russ
Excellent engineering and testing. Thanks for the information and input.
We're both happy to help Les, and Bruce knows his stuff backwards!
Thanks for watching, feel free to share and spread the word. 👍
Cheers. Russ
Amazing contraptions!
Hahaha welcome to the world of Bruce's man cave. 🤓
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Excellent information!!! Thank you. 🐕
Thank-you for watching/commenting, feel free to share... and have you seen our shorter follow-on where Bruce answers the question about the 30-06 brass melting? ...ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=HjRl5nH0SspQoTP6
All the best, cheers. Russ
Induction annealing heats the brass just as stated in the video however the more material that is inside the induction field the faster it will heat. That is why the 30-06 brass melted so quickly vs the 22-250 brass being perfectly annealed at 8 seconds. That is the simple answer. There is a much more in depth answer that involves molecules and density, of course. We use induction annealing where I work for annealing the first few inches of steel rods, of varying diameter, after they have been work hardened by being cut. Plus, the 30-06 brass has larger diameter than the 22-250 so the material is closer to the coil, closer to the coils means it is in the more 'energetic portion of the induction field.
Another huge factor is that brass close to the coil heats faster than brass farther away. Therefore, larger diameter cases will heat faster than one of the same mass of a smaller diameter. This is due to the magnetic flux being denser closer to the coil windings than in the center of the coil.
This is a bigger factor, if not the factor. In this case physics is primarily at work and chemistry is secondary.
Great stuff, thanks to you and Bruce for sharing.
Thanks for watching Jonathan, feel free to share this video and my follow-up (ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html), where Bruce answers the question as to why the 30-06 brass melted.
Cheers. Russ
Great video and data shared. Another interesting peice of data i found from another man testing annealing of the same method with a vickers hardness tester. What he found was that if you anneal a piece of brass at a specific temp and time it softens it to a specific point. Once cooled, if you anneal it the same exact way once more or ten times more, the hardness will be the same. More time or higher temps or both would be needed to decrease the hardness further. Very interesting what science can do for our hobbies.
Thanks for the extra info (which I'll share with Bruce) -and for watching. 👍
All the best, cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 Thanks and heres the link for the source.
ua-cam.com/video/D_aukSJwUXA/v-deo.html
This was so very interesting!! Gained a lot of knowledge from Bruce. Love his annealing machine! Thank you so VERY MUCH for sharing all this valuable information. Wish a person could purchase a machine like his. Thanks again!
Bruce, thanks for a brilliant explanation. You've taken what's always been a mystery to me and made it make sense. Merry Christmas and cheers 🍻 from South Texas
Thanks for watching William, please share to spread the word. 🙏 I'll pass-on your thanks to Bruce.
All the best, cheers. Russ
I believe the 30-06 melted because the out side diameter is larger and closer to the coils. Also the quality of brass from manufacture to manufacture is different, as you know. I know this because I have sectioned cases and measured them with a ball mic. On lesser quality brass as much as .003 difference around the case wall thickness. On Lapua I found .0002 to .0007 in case thickness. The machine that I built has a smaller coil compared to yours. Mine takes about 5 seconds to do a case. What I have done is place a non metallic tube ( case pacific ) in the center of my coil and adjust it to be 3/8 to 1/2 inch above the case when the case is dropped in. This sets the case prefect in the coil center as to heat the case evenly around the out side. I took temps of the case out side when placed in my coil not centered and found there to be a difference from side to side. I love how your drops the case out. Thanks for the video Rick D.
Hi Richard, nope Bruce reveals the real answer to why the 30-06 case melted in our follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
(more folk need to watch this after the main video).
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Fantastic stuff here.Thanks for taking the time to get this information out.
Our pleasure Gene.
Thanks for watching and feel free to share it. 👍
Cheers. Russ
Cool old man , fantastic and wish him lots of work 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
Well done to Bruce,the old saying about men in sheds springs to mind!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍💯
For ingenuity and information this video is five stars, but in reality for a 1,000+ round target shooter such as myself it is impractical and time consuming. I use Lapua brass and collet neck size only, the brass never seems to crack, and when or if it does I will buy more.
With the north American powder shortage my brass should last forever.
Thank-you and that's good to know... good luck getting supplies resumed too. 🤞
All the best, cheers. Russ
I have often wondered if that wasn't the better way to go. Much simpler and cheaper too but then, is the ammo as accurate as with annealed brass?
You stated that if you put a piece of iron bar into the coil that the power supply would overload because the bar is larger and denser than the cartridge brass. Same thing with the larger 30-06 brass, more metal to heat up and draw more power. Good job.
Hi bud, nope -we had so many queries about the U.S 30-06 brass melting so easily, so I recorded Bruce explaining this as a shorter follow-up here: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching and please share, cheers. Russ
Good video, the board driving the work coil is a ZVS driver (zero voltage switch) and free oscilates based on the inductance of the work coil and the capacitors on the board.
Increasing the coupling of the coil (having the coil closer to the brass) is good to get good energy transfer into the brass but also raises the lowers the inductance and increases osscilation frequency of the system, this can be bad for the capacitors as the voltage will increase across them and their capacitve reactance will cause more impedence and hence more heat in the capacitors.
Adding more capcitors or putting more turns on the coil will lower the osscilation frequency to counter this.
Also the eddy currents ive found will heat the case mouth first even if the coil is put more to the middle of the case, this is because the brass is thinner at the top and less energy is required to heat it.
This is a great video. Thank you. Also I'm a tech and love the anealer you built. Close to the one I have in mind but with a much smaller footprint if possible even smaller than the 2 commercial units on the market and with an auto case feed. Now can you find a way to use a Lee lead hardness tester to do case testing too, although there's that microscope again? And a darn small one at that. This would be great for us that already have them and are definitely extremely money challenged. Lol. My main reason for anealing my brass is to make it last as long as I can. And I'm really old school on this. A hand drill and torch at night outside with those blood sucking mosquitoes.
Thank-you David I'll pass this on to Bruce. 👍
Cheers. Russ
I like Bruce, he speaks electrical engineering language that people like me understand.
...and the rest of us struggle a bit to keep up, but he makes things as approachable as possible, 'cause he's good that way.
Thanks for watching. 👍
Cheers. Russ
Such a polarising topic annealing.....
Apart from the AMP very thing else is close to equal in the right hands.
I like Bruce for lots of reasons, one is because he looks like my Boss, two because he sounds like William Wallace and three he is a very clever man kind of re reminds me of Doc from back to the future, you are so lucky to have a friend like him cracking video Russ and as mentioned below this video should get thousands of views well done mate.
Cheers Simon, he'll roll his eyes (or say "feck off!") for me for saying this, but he's literally a national treasure for us shooters and NV/thermal users.
Oh believe me I know I'm very lucky, when I discovered one of the UK's experts on NV & thermal lived half an hour away (and is friendly, down-to-earth, approachable and explains technical shee-it so even I can understand - result!
Are you going to the British Shooting Show next weekend, hope to see you on Fri or Sat if you are?
All the best, cheers. Russ
Ps. Feel free to share this to help spread the word? ;o)
Very important information here thank you
Fascinating, thanks Bruce
Very well explained, as I did my best to outline to my neighbor you did a better job.
Thanks Jay and thanks for watching.
Cheers. Russ
Great overview on annealing. Keep up the good work.
Thanks very much, Bruce is Aberdeen's version of (a shooter's) Professor Heinz Wolff. 🥸🤓👌
Brass annealing time depends on circumference of the coil and number of coils and wire gage and diameter of the brass.
Hi James, yes but also the quality / hardness of the brass stock -as Bruce revealed (re the 30-06 casing melting) in this shorter follow-up video: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
This is proper shed boffin science!. Thanks for an excellent walkthrough your process and findings. I would love to find one of those harness testers lurking in the back of a junk shop in my neck of woods so i can see if my flame annealing guided by tempilaq is actually doing any good.
Thanks Ekim, I know Bruce will appreciate your comment/compliment just as I do. 👍
Thanks for watching, and feel free to share. 👏
All the best, cheers. Russ
very good testing because you can test between different case like winchester case and norma as an example
This was brilliant.
Thank-you and thanks for watching.
Feel free to share and spread the word pls. 🙏
Cheers. Russ
Annealing is less to prevent cases splitting and more to ensure uniform brass, more specifically to ensure uniform neck tension. Cartridge primer pockets usually come loose long before you get necks splitting. In really good brass like Lapua, depending on cal, you can end up with reloads into double figures until eventually the growth or migration of brass from head to neck prevents it from chambering. I have yet to see a neck split but I anneal every single firing.
Also, PLENTY of deerstalkers and vermin shooters anneal! With the cost of brass and long range shots needing precision it’s essential to ensure uniform well prepped brass. Most stalkers I know who reload also anneal. Almost all long range vermin controllers I know anneal. I have done it for years. Shooters today are generally far better informed than a few decades ago.
All kudos to Bruce. Enthusiasm and talent plus great at presenting what could be a dry subject and making it a must see!
Very well thought out. Thanks
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Excellent peice of kit good explanation too
He's quite some boffin Bruce isn't he?
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Great video gentleman. Well done
Thank-you JJ.
Cheers. Russ
Hello from FRANCE
Thanks so much for posting a such video.
I've made my own annealer like yours. For testing the hardness on my annealed cases I had to go to university (mettalurgic laboratory) in Toulouse where my colleagues work.
I could like this, set the right amount of time for annealing my Lapua 220 Russian brass converted to 6 PPC.
Now, and thanks so much to you, I've purchased the same tool as the one you use. I'm able to change calibers and I won't have to return to university for testing.
Congratulations sir.
Are you in UK ?
Regards
Patrice
@@cottespatrice8847 Hello Patrice from Scotland. 👋
Thank-you and thanks for watching, this device is all (NV boffin) Bruce's work -he's the boffin behind it, I just filmed and edited this -and the follow-on video.
(In this he explained why the 30-06 brass melted so quickly...
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=V97_9iewhfN0bQJw)
All the best, cheers. Russ
Now it’s time for a Guinness. Cheers
Very informative thanks again !
Another great video guys.
Thank-you. R
Excellent video and great work.
Thanks very much Al.
All the best, cheers. Russ
Absolute excellent content!
Thank-you and thanks for watching, feel free to share!
Cheers. Russ
I would suggest that the bigger cases require less time due to the fact that there is more brass in there. As your machine runs off electromagnetic fields, the strength and size of the field does not change between cases, and the electromagnetic field produced is larger than the case. Therefore when a larger piece of brass is placed inside that field, it is in contact with more of the field. The smaller the brass you use, the more time you'll need to get the same result as it in contact with less of the electromagnetic field. Theoretically there would be a tipping point whereby increasing the size of the brass in the field would eventually slow the rate of change due to the rate of heat exchange.
I would be interested to see what would happen to a solid piece of brass in your machine at say 4 seconds...
Actually Corey it's a slightly less technical explanation than that, have you watched our short follow-up video?
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Very impressive 👍 I would be interested in buying such a quality machine!
You're not the only one Chris, but Bruce has no plans to produce more or sell these, sorry. 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Salt path method does work also been used for many years in various industrial hardening and tempering industries.
But as Bruce explained here, it doesn't always work - if it doesn't pass the hardness test.
Cheers., Russ
@@RussDouglas222 I'm not sure what whoever tested salt bath annealing did to test it but, it absolutely does work because I have a number of scientific research papers on annealing 70:30 cartridge brass & salt bath & lead bath were employed.
There's no reason why it wouldn't as it is simply heating the brass.
When I anneal one time I dunged the brass in water an it rehardened an was cracking when seating bullets so I had to reaneal 300 rounds, number, never did that again, now I just air dry an they stay soft...
Amazing!
Maybe it was already covered somewhere else, but I was curious what Bruce's education / training / experience is/was that gave him the background to tackle this project? Clearly, from the look of his shop he is somewhat a jack of all trades, but specifically related to the electrical knowledge needed to have an understanding of what was necessary to make this project work? Engineering, Electrician, factory mechanic, military, etc? Thanks!
Bruce is an electrical and instrument engineer and spent his career designing and building inspection equipment for the oil & gas industry.
Plus being an avid shooter he's been reloading for many years, as well as even building himself a thermal scope once or twice.
He knows his stuff and is very helpful. 👍
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 I was going to say...if he picked-up all that knowledge just as a retirement hobby, I've got a long way to go! Thank you, now I don't feel as inadequate for not knowing half as much ... :- /
@@ronc4146 Haha you and me both Ron!
All the best, cheers. Russ
I just told my girlfriend that she doesn’t know her brass from a hole in the ground. She agreed
Could you get the spcefication of the hand measurement device for the hardness of the brass? The items I have seen are "overkill" for a personal use.
Hi it was the Webster Model W-20B, which at the time Bruce bought from Amazon for £30 - then it skyrocketed in price(!)
As you saw he did adapt it slightly for his needs too.
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Great job !!!
Thank-you, and thanks for watching / feel free to share 👍, cheers. Russ
33:30 I wonder if the .30-06 annealed faster because it has a larger diameter (and was closer to the coils) than the .22-250
Ah have you seen our shorter follow-up video, where Bruce explained the answer - US brass is softer! ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
33:41 xD
I think that's because the magnetic fields are stronger closer to the coils and weakest at the center of the loop. The 30-06 has a larger diameter, placing the walls of the brass in a stronger magnetic field.
Haha nope, quite a few viewers have suggested this as the solution, but Bruce reveals the surprising real answer in our shorter follow-up video...
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Very informative and an enjoyable listen.
Could it be that the 30-06(larger brass) has a greater interaction due to surface area with the electrical field and therefore temperature obtained in less time?
Thanks Ian and thanks for watching - feel free to share. 🙏
As we had so many queries and opinions we recorded a shorter follow-up video where Bruce explained the simple-but-surprising answer: ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
All the best, cheers. Russ
How can I get this annealing machine and the hardness tester
I'm afraid Bruce has only made one of these machines, for his own use.
I've since heard from other viewers these hardness testers are now either difficult to source here in the UK, or are very expensive. Sorry.
Good luck sourcing one, and thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
The larger surface area of the 3006 inducts more current than the 22-250, only a guess.
Sorry Harry not quite, I recorded a follow-up after this, so Bruce could explain the real reasons, after I received a lot of incorrect guesses... ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=NSxVzw2wLTTBdUfY
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Makes sense @@RussDouglas222
I need one of those machines for my 45-70 brass
Extremely informative and useful video. Great home made design. With new handheld Induction heaters becoming available for under USD $200, one major question remains answered only by Bruce and by the high-end brass annealing machines from down under. That is brass hardness AFTER the annealing. Here is a question for Bruce: I would like to use a Laser Thermometer, that can be purchased for under USD $50 that can measure accurately and VERY QUICKLY temps up to 1300-1400 deg C. Can Bruce develop "prima facie evidence" for the correct brass hardness based on the brass temp of the CASES in his induction annealing machine. If that can me developed with reasonable correlation of Case neck Temperature vs the Case neck hardness, we can start using the $200 factory made induction heaters along with a $50 thermometer to set up the time to heat a case (which will be individual based on the case, manufacturer and the coil one is using). That would be awesome to know for the occasional annealer, who is interested in the correct science and hardness, but does not have the budget or otherwise is not interested in investing a lot in annealing equipment and hardness testers. THANKS A LOT in advance.
The reason for the 06 melt. Its the current in the brass. Think of the eddy currents as the out put of a generator (a shorted generator in this case) there are three ways to control power. The strength of the magnetic field, the speed of the magnetic field acting on the conductor, the size of the conductor that the magnetic field is acting apon. In this case the speed is the hz of the power supply, the power supply is almost certainly voltage fixed therefore magnetic field fixed (although I will bet you can hear the load difference). So by putting a bigger conductor in the equal speed and magnetic field more eddy currents are induced thus much more heat. a slight increase in mag field due to diameter would also exist.
Cheers, but looking at answers from Bruce and others it's very likely just the makeup of that particular brass.
All the best. Russ
Great video.
Amazing information, Thank You. I actually prefer the induction process, do plan on mass producing for us electrical inept reloaders? 🙂
Thanks Brian and thanks for watching (please share to spread the word 🙏) ...ah I've passed-on several such requests to Bruce, from viewers who'd like to buy this, but alas he's mostly retired now and has no plans to mass-produce this cool DIY gadget. 🤷🏻♂
All the best, cheers. Russ
Bruce you answered your why the 30 06 melted. the key to induction it the resistance of the brass the loser the resistant the higher the current flowing in the conductor. this could be due to thickness or just the mix used to make the brass.
BTW Awesome job informing the world ;)
@@stanants8566 Hi Stan, have you seen our shorter follow-on video, where Bruce explains why the 30-06 brass melted?
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
@@RussDouglas222 I did now I would agree the mix to the brass used is the reason. Nice work.
@@stanants8566 Thanks for watching.
Cheers. Russ
more brass on the bigger case means more heat transfer. making the case overheat and melt
Sorry nope, if you checkout our follow-up video (ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=4MGzNDZ8FyK9pxAa) Bruce explains American brass is simply slightly softer than European brass. 🤷🏻♂️
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
30.06 maybe takes up more space and metal is closer to heating element causing metal to heat quickly. 🤷🏻♂️
Nope 🤓 we filmed a shorter follow-up vid so Bruce could explain the answer...
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.htmlsi=2OxXIr6BzrQF0Mw_
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Did Bruce test the hardness of brass after different timings? 5, 6. 7, 8 seconds and beyond? As long as the case doesn't get destroyed, does it progressively softer or stop at a certain hardness until it becomes a liquid? That's the thing with induction, you can destroy a case in short time, whereas gas annealing it would be hard to destroy cases, unless you heat the case head. That hardness tester is pretty cool though, nice to know what the hardness of the brass was before and after annealing it.
Hi Phil, yep he thoroughly ran through different timings with each case until he determined exactly how long was required to restore the brass to it's original / un-fired hardness.
At that point he stopped as he'd achieved his goal and anything more would be a waste of his time - although yes if you continue with induction each case can eventually get too soft to hold its shape.
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Hi Steve from Suffolk UK 🇬🇧 because the brass is still as thin as the 2225 but is a lot larger area and the way your home made device works with the electrical current it will heat up that bit quicker. If the bigger diameter cartridge was thicker therefore taking longer because of the mass and surface area is more balanced?
Hi Steve, have you seen our follow-on video where Bruce revealed the reason the 30-06 brass heated faster and melted?
He discovered (based upon testing multiple brands) that American brass is simply softer than european brass. 🤷🏻♂️
Cheers. Russ
Is there any chance to purchase one of Bruce's Brilliant Builds?
Sorry Martin, many have asked but he's not going to build another.
Thanks for watching, please share to spread the word, cheers. Russ
Would love to see what your hardness test after brass is annealed (from video it went from17 down to 13) but then after same brass is resized. Curious if that takes it back to 17? Good video and very informative!
Great work Bruce and a very well put together video. Two questions - 1) What happens if you anneal a piece of brass twice in a row? 2) Using your Webster hardness tester, how does flamed annealing compare? Cheers Scott
Thanks Scott, I'll ask Bruce this but I doubt he's ever done this as it's a waste of effort; shooting hardens the brass risking split cases from further use and annealing returns it to its natural level of hardness, simples.
Obviously flamed annealing might rarely be as consistent, and is naturally more hazardous. You could go to a lot of effort to set-up a mechanical production line, ensuring each case was rotated within a flame for a set period, but as you can see Bruce's method is quick, considerably safer / less hazardous and is very consistent.
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
I have also wondered about annealing the same piece of brass twice in a row
@@theaveragearmedcitizen9821 But why would you? 🤷🏻♂️
Annealing (once) restores a brass case to its natural state and prevents brittle (fired) brass from splitting during firing. I'll check with Bruce but I doubt accidentally annealing twice would cause any damage to the case. 🤔
its about mass/size the more mass/size the faster it will heat in an induction proses
Not necessarily, have you watched our shorter follow-up vid, where Bruce reveals the answer?
ua-cam.com/video/but_JGdqx4c/v-deo.html
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
I don’t want to use torch , I ordered a unit but because it was in India ? Government stopped it from being shipped for some reason
FYI as of 30 August 2023 - Webster hardness tester is listed on amazon at 600+ Euro! Yikes!
Ouchie! 😖
Can nickel plated rifle brass be annealed?
I forwarded your question to Bruce, who replied "yes, but the timing might be slightly different from pure brass".
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
Wish I could find a tool similar to your Amazon find. Can't seem to find anything even close.
Great video! clear explanation. However, I wonder why only the top of the case is heated, as the case is almost fully emerged in the coil?
The induction only heats whatever metal's in the centre of the induction ring, although if you left it in long enough the heat would spread up and down from that point.
Thanks for watching, feel free to share it and spread the word of Bruce's ingenuity.
Cheers. Russ
Because the neck of the brass is much thinner than the rest of the case and therefore has a higher resistance.
The same eddy currents are flowing around all of the brass inside the coil, but the higher resistance at the neck of the case causes that area to heat up much more quickly
How did you modify the Webster Hardness Tester to allow 30 cal cases to fit? just grind away or what? Metal seems to be reallllly hard, and it seems you need to maintain the distance between the head and the anvil and remove metal from the other parts of the anvil until the case fits?
Realy great tutorial ,kindly 2 questions regarding annealing machine and hardness tester modification:
It is possible to order the annealer by Mr. Bruce ?
and how adapt the skin of the probe on the hardness tester ?
Many thanks for any information.
Sorry, Bruce has been asked before if he'd make these to sell, but now he's retired so not doing that.
I'll direct Bruce here to answer your query.
Thanks for watching, cheers. Russ
I removed the anvil and sanded it on a belt sander to remove enough metal to allow the anvil to fit inside a .20 calibre cartridge. I did not sand the upper surface of the mandrel so that it remained smooth and the distance from the indentor to the surface was unchanged
Many,many thanks for your kind help,the annealer is great ,maybe he make on for me ,i accept any price for 😀@@RussDouglas222
Is there a way to get in contact together maybe by email or whatsapp ?
I'm new here @@RussDouglas222
@@brucemcpherson8832 do you happen to have a parts list for the machine and/or schematic? Looking to build one myself. Thanks!
Have you used Templelac ? Bigger the case more material bigger the draw.
Greater mass in larger cartridge cases probably results in higher induced current, thereby higher temperatrure.
What model Webster tester did you get?
I messaged Bruce to ask him, he reports it's a model W-20B.
Cheers. Russ