Are you knowledgeable about Tier 2? The Persona thread is currently at a standstill because Dargoo insists we need other staff opinions outside of the ones we've got to agree with the upgrade.
They've essentially violated their own rules about Ap (attack potency) =/= Dc (destructive capacity) which lead to characters being planet level for just moving the moon. Don't get me wrong destroying the moon is a far more complex feat to calc (normally via KE) then simply moving it but VSBW often moves the goal posts so who cares?
Super demonstrated how improper Ki control can cause massive damage. Beerus and Godku clashes is an example of that thanks to Goku's lack of understanding how to control his God Ki.
I just love the idea that it's basically "my head cannon doesn't work if this character is as powerful as they are litteraly portrayed to be, therefore they aren't. gg"
Imagine arguing a point that can be debunked by cause and effect. A baby learns C&E during their first year alive but these people dedicate hours arguing that roshi cant do something he did.
They all suffer from an extreme case of dunning-Kruger effect, or something similar. They believe themselves to be so infinitely smarter than the rest that their intelligence is actually easily surpassed by a toddler. These people need help, they shouldn’t be running any websites on the internet
>Revised infinite speed twice so DB couldn't have it >Has Zamasu at "will become multiversal" despite Zeno nuking everything to kill him >Won't give any relevant character resistences to at least Shenron's on-screen wishes
lmao, I see you're a survivor of those cancer threads as well. The most hilarious part was that their own definitions of infinite speed and resistance requirements were perfectly fine until DB was viable for it.
@@emperor5919 I think it means moving through an infinite distance in a finite amount of time at the absolute bare minimum. Or at least this is what I remember.
During his fight with raditz, goku's resting power level of 416 shot up to 924 while using the Kamehameha wave, that's a multiplier of 2.2 If you apply that Kamehameha boost to roshi's resting power of 139 (there's little to no evidence of him training significantly between his moon feat and raditz) you get a power level of 309, which is INCREDIBLY close to piccolo's casual weighted power level of 322 in the saiyan arc when HE destroyed the moon So not only is it not an outlier, it's an EXTRAORDINARY instance of power levels being consistent
If your logic is correct. That would make Roshi large planet level as, in the anime, Piccolo’s feat is calced to be large planet level and a power level of 310 from Roshi’s Kamehameha scales very close to that. Or at least planet level+
Yeah pretty much. You're either a verse several mods love and will actually be given an accurate rating on, or a verse the mods don't like and your upgrade gets delayed for years. Pretty much the only way you can get the verse you like upgraded is if it's so minor that majority of the mods don't know/care enough about it, or you get at least 20+ supports, at least three mods, and write a whole bible on why a verse's stats should be changed (GoW, DMC, and DBS had to go through all that shit just to get their universal upgrades) There are a few based mods though, and props to them for making sure other verses don't get the same disrespect Dragon Ball's been getting for years.
more like fictions that the staff don't like. For the verses they do like. ho boy, just look at the saint seiya verse page, you can actually see the jizz from all the wanking those characters got.
@@ssj_janessa53rd I feel you bro. Rn personally I'm highly insulted with the fgo pages and the asshat retardation reasoning for making them 2A. I gave up on the bigger shonen verses years ago because I saw the writing on the wall. Really, I've quit the vs wiki altogether.
this is why i stopped debating with comic fans you can LITERALLY have something hapen on screen and niggas will still deny it *cue broly destroying south galaxy*
@@SonGoku-777 ikr! They got broly at 4-A as if south Galaxy wasn't: A. A fucking *galaxy* at the very least B. Actually a quadrant of galaxies and 1/4 the universe
Seth, the sad part about all of this is that I’m not even offended. Beyond the fact that we were on the same side this time (this is Cal btw if it wasn’t obvious), you’d expect a longtime staff member to have some sort of defense for the site he cares about. But I...don’t. Nowadays I form my own opinions outside of the site, not believing the profiles are law. Roshi should be moon. Among many other things. And there’s unaddressed issues in the site. I don’t want any unwanted people to read this and use this as leverage to get me banned or demoted or smth so I’ll leave it here, but just know that even within the staff, there’s discourse.
This feels like an organization XIII situation from KH (yes I know that's a weird analogy but hear me out) essentially while all the members of the organization have a seat at the table, it's numbers I to VI that hold most of the influence and power while the other members just have to go with whatever decisions that smaller group within the organization come up with.
By the way everyone deadass ignored my comment and didn't respond to me about getting Seth in, sorry boys. GreyFang82 here by the way. Keep up the good shit Seth.
The man used his full power, used a kameha and blew up the moon. It was a serious moment, that lead to Goku going back to his base form, and lead to the wolfman being unable to switch back. It was an action that had consequences felt over the course of like 5 arcs, and I believe was later referenced by Kami. So how exactly is it an outlier? How many times would Roshi ever need to use moon level tier power ever again? He rarely fights seriously, but when he takes Tagumas kick thats an outlier too? All his impressive feats are outliers!
@LowTierFallout Lmao and then you have saitama wankers that are literally freely allowed to wank him to fucking boundless or something when he’s basically a featless fodder.
Ikr, and funny enough even Death Battle used correct scaling for Goku despite using conservative estimates for him. They placed current SSJ3 Goku comfortably at multi-universal level (or low-multiversal depending on how you argue it) yet according to these people Goku is universal+ as SSB and UI.
@@callmefleet If you think that was bad, they’re planning to downgrade Zeno to 3-A as well aka Universal because apparently him destroying an entire timeline isn’t considered anything more than a universal to high universal feat at best by them. Fucking death battle’s scaling puts these idiots to shame, that’s how terrible they are
"Roshi isn't a moon level..." Me: Wait a minute, I'm pretty sure in the anime he literally blew up the Moon. Then stated something like: "I wasn't aiming for Goku, I aimed at the moon instead so that Goku can't turn into a Great Ape." (Okay granted I haven't watched DragonBall in years but I know 100% I've seen Roshi do it.) Oh wait.. I'm sorry Roshi didn't blow up the Moon. Jackie Chun did a **completely different person** lol.
I quit VSBW awhile ago when it was clear that if you weren't a staff member and/or didn't have close connections to the FANDOM; your statements, evidence, opinions, etc were worth less than shit! From my personal recent observations: *The Mario and Sonic supporters have had to form an alliance to try to get anywhere with threads (even that isn't enough). *Dragon ball supporters consistently gets shit upon and they themselves have somewhat accepted their verse is the laughing stock of the VSBW staff. *DC/Marvel supporters are trapped in an omega sanction that prevents heralds level characters becoming tier 2 (despite there being dozens of universe level or higher feats/statements) because "inCOnSiSteNCiES". *Ben 10 supporters constantly get the short end of the stick and Alien X is treated as a punching bag. *Gravity Falls supporters can only dream of upgrading Bill back to his rightful tier... *Naruto supporters had to fight their own great ninja war just to get a "possibly FTL" speed rating for the god tier characters while the AP yo-yos between moon level to planet level back to moon level every few months. *And good luck trying to get any upgrades for any verse/character "certain" staff members don't like... :/ While imo some of the ratings/scaling for certain characters/verses is pure wank (e.g super "composite" Mario bros, ultra "composite" Pokémon and planet level for ALL base Sonic characters) while others suffer from criminal downplay (moon level = "outlier" for OG DB era characters, DC/Marvel heralds being capped at SS level as well as many DBZ Buu saga characters being capped at SS level too). I can respect the difference in opinions folks have, feel free to disagree/agree however certain staff members (and their simps) have shown little to no respect for different opinions not to mention they're completely self aware of the fact that nothing goes through without their say so (unless it's something incredibly minor) and openly abuse that fact aka an appeal to authority. Tl;dr VSBW is a website that if certain staff members don't like your favourite fictional verse/characters, you stand little chance against them in a debate about the ratings/scaling (albeit a "debate" where all the odds are stacked against you, where someone can essentially say; "I'm right, you're wrong" then 'win').
The fact that they changed the tiering system so that transcending the concepts of space and time is only Low 1-C now is the final nail in the coffin for me.
- Moreover, we shouldn't forget the Madoka supporters, who can't even hope in the slightest of having their goddess upgraded to her rightful league, much like the GF supporters with Bill, and it's all because *tHaT's NoT hOw HiGhEr-DiMeNsIoNaL eXiStEnCe WoRkS.* Not to mention literally everyone in the verse in general is suffering from massive despair-inducing downplay, especially in AP and speed, but this could just be my thing for strong wahmen lol. - Saint Seiya supporters constantly tried and failed to get the gods to their rightful tier. - Minecraft supporters aren't safe either, as they were repeatedly slain by rejections of Low 1-C Player because *DrEaMs DoN't WoRk LiKe ThAt.* My response to your main points: - I honestly don't see the problem with super "composite" Mario (It's lowballed to oblivion if anything IMO) - Don't know about ultra "composite" Pokemon - Agree with your stance on Tier 2 Heralds (The two verses as a whole are ridiculously downplayed IMO with a few exceptions here and there like TOAA) - Dunno about Ben 10 scaling other than Alien X being arguably 5D - Heavily agree with the Bill Cipher stuff (There's even a debunk on High 1-C Bill, which is not only absolute garbage from what I've seen, but said debunk is ironically refuted/debunked as well) - Heavily agree with Moon/Planet Level OGDB Some other points from my perspective after looking at the profiles: - The Masadaverse is insanely wanked from what I've seen. Literally almost everyone there is High 1-A, but I haven't seen a single evidence for the verse being that high (All of the evidence I found moreso points towards just plain ol' regular 1-A rather than straight-up High 1-A) - SCP Foundation was tragically hit by a massive downgrade storm; every godly SCP got yeeted down to 2-A/Low 1-C. *R.I.P. Perpondrence (can't spell it properly, I'm sorry) of evidence for High 1-B to 1-A SCP that unfortunately got overlooked* - Naruto (and even Bleach, to some extent) is downplayed, or at least the later part of the verse (Same thing applies for Bleach) On top of all of these rant-esque points I brought up, their Tiering System in general is a giant mess. My first reply here is more than enough proof to answer why.
I loved your comment😂 But yeah what you’re saying is mostly true. The only thing I’d disagree with is the Alien X problem mainly because he was actually multiversal level or 2-B on the site, but unfortunately there’s actually canon evidence from the show to suggest that he isn’t at that level.
I would argued that for story reasons Roshi destroying the moon can’t be an outlier when the feat is referenced several times. It came up in a gag fight, they talked about not worrying anymore about Goku turning into a monster, and Goku lost his tail so Kami can put the moon back. So how can something that impacted the story be an outliner?
@@Ramona122003 Whenever i see people use "outliner" and not outlier it irks me a little... So now just cuz a feat happened in story and has such an impact means its legit? By that logic you can upgrade literally any series to a certain level just cuz of a single feat
VS battles wiki has blatant double standards. The more obscure and nobody cares a verse the more they scale them off whatever BS wank the 1 person on the site who cares about it says it is. But if it's a verse that is actually popular, then they will refuse to change regardless of anything. Did you see the insanity of the GOW arguments where they refused to accept Kratos being above multi-continental for months?
@@anthonyargueta131 You’re not wrong. I was just being generous. Characters from the God of War franchise have ridiculous feats. For example, Thor’s first fight with the World Serpent shook all Nine Realms. He then went on to splinter the World Tree, a construct that transcends time and space in all of the realms, in their second fight. With help from his father, he defeated the fire giant Surtr, who, in his dying breath after said fight, swung his sword and erased all of existence. Those statements/lore makes Thor low Multiversal.
@@balazsdocs8897 That scaling comes from the true yggdrasil that transcends the concepts of time and space not to mention that's only the Norse pantheon (with the Celtic, Shito and Egyptian pantheons confirmed to exist in GOW).
The outlier argument is so annoying I swear I thought every sane human being agreed on Moon level Roshi easily 5-C Although what’s more than annoying for me is them Downgrading MHA characters to City level because apparently the Mountain level feat is an outlier why idk
@@xvx_j_xvx5255 Even worse is that they rate current Shigaraki as only Town level tf same for Endeavor even tho Shigaraki has been stated several times by credible sources to compare to All might or how Deku and Bakugo dispersed that thunder Storm on screen yet now it's an outlier
@@xvx_j_xvx5255 I also use there calcs sometimes to as those are helpful I just really don't like their scaling it gives me a headache and the sad part is I complained about their mha scaling but their Naruto scaling is like way worse their Demon slayer scaling also made me wanna jump off a cliff Only verse they scale decently is fate that's it
I only ever use them for quickly gathering scans and such, not really their calcs, as they heavily downplay so many franchises, especially dragon ball.
Roshi blew up the moon straight up in db, there is no arguing that he isn’t moon level. People that don’t think Roshi is moon level probably think the earth is flat, too.
If piccolo early into training for the saiyan's can blow up the moon with a casual energy blast with no charge up, then Roshi can moon bust with full power and a Power boosting move (Kamehameha).
He, LITERALLY blew up the fucking moon??? It's like drinking water, recording it, posting it on the internet, and a group of people say, "No you didn't." The fuck is this.
I'm interested to see how the fuck this is an hour long, the subject is pretty cut and dry. There's literally direct explicit evidence of Roshi destroying the moon.
By their logic if I can curl 300 pounds by myself once with no weight training then I can’t lift 300 pounds because someone who is clearer alot stronger (can push to 1000) did the same thing I did but casually. That’s practically their “outlier” debate summed up
If people can’t even handle a freaking website properly then does the current state of the world surprise you? The powers in charge aren’t better than any of these idiots.
Aizens statement about ichigo being a higher dimensional tier above him which has statements kinda supporting it with the sokyoku stated to overwhelm everything in existence in the first databook and the 3rd databook says that mugetsu is above everything in the verse at that time including, the weakened soul king, squad 0, the sokyoku, and bankai yamamoto but you could chop it down to that aizen just can't fathom someone being far stronger than him and if ichigo truely was a higher dimensional being there's no way aizen could react to a higher being but we know that aizen was encroaching on ichigos strength at the end with him fusing with kyoka suigetsu but if urahara hadn't sealed him he might have kept getting stronger and eventually surpassed mugetsu
People who confront Seth in a debate by calling him names or people who are ignorant or disingenuous with their claims: "Grrr Seth is mean!" Seth in a debate calling his opponents buddy, letting his opponent state their claim even if its outrages sometimes, and takes his time to educate his opponents. Honestly I fell in the hate train against Seth in the past and Im here to say sorry.
The truth is in the middle. He clearly isn't the madman many people accuse him of being but he still bullies innocent people for no other reason than to be funny.
@@vanconojl. Err, but what he said is literally bullying, making fun of others by insulting them, I live in Latin America and my classmates do that, it is not "being weak" or something like that, and do you really expect people taking you seriously if Seth just keep insulting people again and again?
@@gerardogarcia7933 that is weak shit here in brasil 5 of my classmates mobbed my ass at lunch and i got hit in the nuts so bad i spend the entire lunch break on the ground hahaha those were the days. besides calling someone bad names on the internet is weak stuff anyone that cant handle some thing like that cant survive on the outside competitive world.
@@ssj_janessa53rd yea i feel you but if you let ego balloons like those guys unpopped you only get trouble later on. when you deal with these kind of people you must thoroughly crush and destroy them break their spirit. you must pull the weed by it roots else it will grow again. well at least that is how we do it in brasil least they show up and cause trouble for you.
"Tri-Beam is not moon level because it only blew up the arena and not more of the planet." These characters have been shown to be able to control the amount of destruction their attacks cause for years now. Almost all of the explosions and blasts they cause are concentrated energy. Otherwise the planet would be erased the moment a super saiyan sneezes.
It’s also like why tf would tenshinhan purposely use a moon level or higher attack on the planet what he just wants to murder a billion people instantly or something. Like especially at that point in time cuz he was already reformed by goku and roshi and the kikoho was a strategic play to get goku out of the ring in general. There’s literally 0 reason why he would just unleash absolute hell on everyone there besides just the ring, but obviously these dumbass moderators DONT actually watch the show or read the manga they just assume
The majin vegeta final explosion was a great argument. Like obviously Majin vegeta could've destroyed the whole planet but he only wanted to target Buu. You could even see his ki flowing out too. Maybe Majin Vegeta is town level by vsbattles standards lol
It's like they force that narrative to make the earlier DB arcs way weaker than post-Sayian saga arcs on purpose, as if it makes them uncomfortable or something, it's especially noticeable with the Tenshinhan thing, it's like it was sacrilege to make him a moon buster even though he was superior to a stronger Roshi in the 22th Budokai.
The outlier argument is so dumb because it’s pretty much the unintellectual’s way out by saying “iT’S NOt CoNSiSTEnT” and it’s dumb because why tf would we destroy the moon, planets, universes and etc every 4 seconds that’s why we use SCALING, official GUIDES, and official STATEMENTS. And the only thing that they bring up is “uhhh he’s only done it once so it’s an outlier” even though this is a linear story with one writer and everything is consistent unlike DC with 20 million different authors and interpretations can have the character stronger or weaker than their other iteration.
They use the outlier argument all the time when they dont want to accept the feat they even tried doing that shit against the goku and beerus universe clash. Even though they did it in the manga and we all know the anime and the manga take diffrent directions in the story so I dont see how it could be a outlier.
@@johnsonwayne7136 it’s sad because it’s made apparent that the Vs Wiki staff are dumb since they are horrible at debates that even a person with basic knowledge of the series could stomp all the mods with no dip.
@@johnsonwayne7136 mhm and they themselves use outlier incorrectly because of the fact that literally all of the characters they scaled on their site wouldn’t even be building level let alone wall level
A small nitpick. Shenron was recreated by Kami using a clay statue, not paper. Still, it has been stated several times that all the dragons outside of Super Shenron are limited by their creator's power. Which is why Shenron couldn't kill the Saiyans since Kami couldn't kill them. Same thing happened at the end of the Namek Saga when the Namekian dragon couldn't bring Goku to Earth because Goku refused and he couldn't force him unlike Super Shenron who granted Zamasu's body swapping wish. Another point, Roshi had to put a lot of effect into destroying the moon since Roshi more or less said that was his max power. In comparison, King Piccolo could destroy an entire city with a wave of his hand and the cities in Dragon Ball are actually huge to the point that West City is basically a continent (they actually call West City sector which Piccolo was going to destroy so it wasn't just West City itself but everything within that sector). Finally, calling Roshi only mountain level is crazy when you consider that Roshi wasn't trying to destroy the mountain, just put out the fire. Which means, he was holding back and still accidentally destroyed it. And that Roshi was out of shape. Roshi is actually stronger during the 21st tournament and even stronger in the 22nd since he actually said he has been training in preparing to fight Goku again.
the "moderator ecochamber" thing is so true it hurts, they will just decide shit on their own without even contacting knowledgeable members, I'm going through the same thing right now with Metal Gear.
Matt was literally caught in 4K saying that he didn’t want DB verse getting upgraded to low 1-C using legit statements and their own site’s logic simply because they didn’t want DB verse being on the same level as they wank Saint Seiya verse to by using fanfiction and non-canon bullshit. This site should’ve died years ago
Seriously, what happened to VSwiki? The last time I was an active member on that forum was back in 2016 and the last time I even visited the site was last year. The entire website and pretty much all of it’s “staff” have shown almost no real attempt at proper scaling, no attempt at looking into any series they’re scaling as a whole, no attempt to take into account outside sources such as author statements, databooks, translations, etc, and no attempt at taking into account the ideas of anyone who isn’t in their “team”. And as for the “staff” themselves... almost none actually know what they’re talking about. They’ve become so overly obsessed with “consistency” and “outliers” in recent years that they’re stuck in a perpetual state of their own head-canon to the point at which they’ll completely discard feats in order to keep a given character down at the level they prefer (a good example being Thor still stuck at Solar-System level, the poor guy 😂).
Well the source material is the best to use rather than secondary sources since the original source material is the authors 1st and best interpretation Like for Example FT on the wiki the only things accepted as canon is all 3 FT mangas aka Zero,OG FT,100YQ since they were written by hiro and are referenced in the manga Also both movies are canon as they fit into the timeline and are referenced in the manga There’s 3 anime only arcs but only the key of the starry sky arc is canon as it’s referenced in the manga Everything else is non canon
One of my recent favorite things is how I distinctly remember Omni Man (comics version) being a lot stronger but then he got nerfed after the animated series came out.
I would even argue that DB is lowballed and that At least Z Goku/piccolo vs raditz is planetary but I would go as far to say that end of original DB characters could be
Man, as an actual admin I have to actually apologize to you for that Roshi thread. The fact that Roshi is not 5-C to this day is annoying and it's simply because everyone love throwing around the term "outlier". At this most, a lot of mods don't even bother and those who agree with it just give up as no matter what, you won't win with certain things on that site. It's really fucking irritating. And this extends to any popular verse at that.
Sup Dragon, glad to see you, Mitch, Cal and other staff are willing to speak up. I completely agree with your semi-rant on a thread awhile back on the unfair pitfalls/stigma that DBZ supporters have to go through on VSBW.
@@lynxfresh5214 It's really sad to be honest. I stopped bothering with Dragon Ball because of how many people are blatantly against it. You support any upgrade to DB, you're a wanker. You go against the idea that certain verses can only be X tier and you are labeled a fanboy. I don't have the time to deal with that bullshit when this is no more than a hobby. Once again, this applies to all of the popular verses as well. So when Seth goes on and debunks this shit, I can only smile. It's unfortunate that when people think VsWiki staff, this is what they see. The place comes off as a hivemind when it's not like that completely. But unfortunately, the place can easily be an echo chamber that refuses to actually here others thoughts and opinions.
@@dragonmasterxyz3544 Yeah that obscene behaviour as well as bias that so called "trusted" and "reliable" staff members getaway with is disgusting, VS debating should indeed just be a fun hobby but some folks act as if they'll die if a certain popular verse/character gets upgraded... :/ The fact VSBW felt like an echo-chamber, hivemind, dictatorship, etc (to me) is why I left (the hypocrisy of being told that the opinions/arguments of regular users is important when Seth's own vid proves otherwise doesn't help either). I wish you, Cal, Mitch and other likeminded staff members the best for the future (I know a few rotten apples doesn't mean the whole tree is bad but VSBW left such a bad taste, I don't think I'll return for a second bite anytime soon).
@@bob74h67 " Funny coming from you saying as you banned missy0724 or me for proving your digimon canon to be incorrect so you're just as bad as the other moderators as you ban people when they point out your inaccuracies. " I never banned Missy. Missy was reported and banned by someone else for something else that was out of my control, i.e making a massive upgrade on a file without a CRT from what it seems like and I guess something to do with your behavior of Dragon Ball threads (you also never proved us wrong. You in fact showed a lack of knowledge on Digimon when we had scans that you refused to even look at) so you should probably review who banned you. "you moderators on that site are all the same, You ether shut down threads or ban users for disagreements infact your one of the worse ones on that site along with ant due to lying about certain details like how you stated how not all digimon verses scale to one another yet next second, you scaled to lucemon from frontier to the demon lords as a example." Never shut down the thread nor banned Missy for disagreeing. Except I never lied. Except Lucemon is literally the Member of the Seven Great Demon Lords, his backstory as a Demon Lord is literally his backstory in Frontier. So yes, Lucemon scales to the SGDL as he's literally a member of the SGDL. You realize there are multiple avatars of SGDL Lucemon spread infinitely across the entire multiverse right? I never lied and I even specified. You all debunked nothing. I said and I quote; "That's not how that works. We use every single source, but we also separate Digimon by species as well as certain characters. We still scale the same across media and the rules of the general level and abilities are the same. DigiXros is different, but still falls within general scaling." "This does not contradict them being canon. Both are canon as both are different worlds. In this case there would be a Dorulumon file for both the anime and the manga. General scaling would still apply." "I think you are misunderstanding what we mean by canon to one another. I hope you aren't assuming we scale the likes of Tai to Takato or something for feats in their respective series, because we don't. We have General Digimon feats, and blatant exceptions get scaled differently. There is a baseline tier for each evolutionary stage which pages follow via feats down by an average member of the species. No matter the world, unless the Digimon is stated to be more powerful compared to other mons of it's evolutionary level or species, the others scale to this as a base. Their stories are canon, but they all fall under the same multiverse and same cosmology. This does not change." "Yeah, your comment shows that you are misunderstanding what we mean by "they are all canon to one another. We do not scale D-Reaper to Yggdrassil because there is nothing cosmology wise that supports this scaling. D-Reaper scales to the 4 Holy Beasts by feats, so that's the level D-Reaper will scale to. Entities who are far lower of the hierarchy for the cosmology and much weaker. If you read our blogs you would understand all this. We even have a blog regarding our Top/God Tier scaling listed on the verse page." "We have stated time in time again that being in a different universe =/= they are non canon to each other. The events of Adventure still happened as per the overall Digimon canon. However, this does not mean that suddenly Taichi's WarGreymon and Masaru's ShineGreymon are suddenly scaled to one another as they both have fought Digimon with different feats that surpass the evolutionary stage's baseline. Taichi with the Dark Masters and Masaru with the Royal Knights. Masaru's feats are objectively superior and despite Taichi's actions being canon to the multiverse, they do not effect Masaru unless there was a sense of general scaling involved." And once again, never once closed the thread on you nor banned you. So you should put that blame on someone else as I actually continued to debate you until you were banned by Medeus. Never once did I say "ban this person because they disagree with me". "It's a hivemind because everyone who the mods disagree with gets kicked off the site so that only leaves the select minority of people who agree with them but then again your one of the same people who caused this issue so you made your bed now slept in it" Except no I'm not. Never banned Missy and I never even said "Ban Missy". This was the work of someone else. Looking at your block, Medeus was the one who blocked you. I even said "Well, he's someone whose very hard to deal with, the Digimon thread he made kinda shows that he's not willing to listen to others and thinks anything that doesn't agree with him is "stupid" and likes to pull the whole "mod will just shut me down" card whenever he doesn't get his way while acting like he is the one arguing with "facts and logic" despite being clearly in the wrong and unwilling to even look at sources. Although, it's more an annoyance so I do not agree with banning him on this alone. Although editing the tiering to such a degree without an accepted CRT is a big issue." You were banned for editing profiles drastically without a revision. If anything, they banned you moreso over fucking Dragon Ball and less anything I did when I flat out said you disagreeing with me on Digimon was not something ban worthy. vsbattles.com/threads/taichi-kamiyas-agumon-vs-masaru-daimons-agumon.81390/#post-2752538 Just so that you can't just lie and act like I didn't debate you and just blocked you. Also, for your rule violation report that wasn't made by me btw. vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violations-reports-66.79619/page-4#post-2696232 But I will happily have this discussion in DMs, just between you and me if you so wish now that you know I am not the one who banned you.
@@bob74h67 "Your own scans that you used as proof even stated that there are different timelines like this scan here as a example imgur.com/a/5XcTxOE so no not everything would be canon to one another even according to your own sources." Different Timelines =/= Not Canon to one another, especially when the Royal Knights themselves travel throughout time and space all the time and the SGDL have avatars spread across all of time and space. The events of Adventure is still canon to Cyber Sleuth. However, Adventure itself does not effect Cyber Sleuth unless there are general feats for Digimon. No one in CS is scaling to say, Tai. This debunks literally nothing. Different timelines doesn't change what is canon to the franchise. They are not mutually inclusive. "What massive upgrade, can you be more specific?" According to the thread, Upgrading Beat from 4-A to 2-B. Can't really be more specific as that was something I had no involvement in. Read the thread I posted that detailed your RvT. "The same scans that stated their are different timelines debunking your whole everything is canon to one another nonsense, I didt address them because it did not disprove anything stated by me infact it proved my statements to be correct." That doesn't disprove canonicity. Multiple timelines in fact prove that everything is canon as it shows explains why events from one series are not mentioned in another despite them all happening. I do not see how being more than one timeline debunks everything is canon whatsoever. "In what episode was this stated and even if that were the case, It would not justify scaling to different timelines where the tiers of power are different like do you seriously think that lucemon from xros wars would last 5 seconds against lucemon from frontier?" The Lucemon from Frontier follows the SGDL Lucemon's background which is the fact that he rebelled and was sealed away by the Warrior Ten in the Dark Area. This is literally the entire plot of Frontier. Prove that Lucemon is actually an avatar of the SGDL Lucemon. I can prove it for Frontier, Re:Digitize, Savers: Another Mission, Next 0rder, Chronicle X and Cyber Sleuth. But give me evidence for it in Xros Wars. Xros Wars Lucemon is not even factored in on site. "So composited versions in other words which would make sense if it was applied to something with a loosely defined canon like dragon ball or naruto however digimon has very defined multiverse so that type of scaling does not work really." How so. It has a defined multiverse, however Digimon lacks a defined canon. And no, they are not fully composited otherwise all Piedmon would scale to the 4 Holy Beasts and Daisuke's Magnamon would actually scale to the Royal Knight member. Something we do not do. Also, Digimon has defined lore and as such the stats of lore based characters should remain consistent and the same. "But your complacent with people who do and you ignored my request to debate you in dms so yes your apart of the problem." I don't remember you ever asking me to DM you (show me please) and even then, I literally just requested a DM lol "Again that has no basis because child digimon can be stronger then adult level digimon at times and some series like xros wars do not even follow standard levels." Except it has a basis as the Child Digimon who performed the feat hadn't shown anything out of the ordinary and these feats are consistent for Digimon of that level. And the Child Digimon who show exceptional feats above others are directly noted and we take that into account. See Tamers Renamon or like Arkadimon and Lucemon who each do not scale to the baseline Rookie Tier. Also, this comment on how XW does not follow standard levels has aged like milk as Bandai has quite literally made it so that they do follow standard level just recently. And even if they didn't, we made it clear that XW Digimon scale to whatever standard level they consistently combat. Basic scaling at that point. "Yea but the standard used to define that baseline is both subjective and factually incorrect so thats a moot point really." The standard to find that baseline is finding consistent feats among the actual evolutionary stage and using them for scaling. Especially when the series make it a point to note that evolutionary stages are levels of power as well as we get constant notes of how some lower tiered Digimon may have skills that can harm higher level Digimon or like how in Digimon NEXT, GeoGreymon (who had the Dragon Memory) was stated to be "near the level of a Perfect", implying that there is a level of power Digimon of this level have. And that's how we come up with the general tiers for Digimon as a whole. Versus debating as a whole is subjective buddy. However, we all use standards and feats to find a consistent level for characters to be at. That's how that works. Your way is no more correct than my way. "I much rather debate here saying as you cannot shut me down to ignore arguments if we do so here and you ignored my dms on the wki last time, Why should i care about your request this time when you did not care to respond to me last time." Once again, when did you ask me to DM you? Show me this and show me actually responding to it as it is very likely I did not see it. Also, you keep acting like I am ignoring shit when I can say the same for you. Stop acting like you're the one being ignored or shut down when I have never once done that to you. We've literally only debated once. You claimed I was trying to shut you down and that I would ban you and block you when I never once did that. So let me ask, where the actual fuck did this opinion of me come from when I have always responded to your points and never just blocked you. The original thread proves this fact. Stop projecting your hate of staff on me when I did nothing what you accuse me of, especially when we've only interacted once and that was in that thread. "Also you ignored my comment on the other one of seth's vs battles wiki videos so then again why should i respect your request when you did not have the same common courtesy to me." What video? Show me this comment. You are saying I did this stuff, but you aren't actually showing me doing this stuff. I don't even have a notification from you. Show me this. Like above, unless you show me doing this shit I have reason to believe you are making shit up. "When did i do that?" Literally stated in the Thread I posted. Read it. Once again, I wasn't involved in that. "The mods did shut me down so guess what, I was right and define what you mean by getting my way?" I did not shut you down, you were banned for something else entirely, read the thread. You disagreeing with Digimon wasn't why you were banned. Get your way as in not convincing me that you were 100% factual and as such you resorted to saying I was gonna shut you down and ban you when I myself did nothing of the sort. The lack of self awareness really hurts your case. "Just because they apart of the same multiverse does not equate to them scaling to one another unless you think new 52 superman should scale to the animated series superman because their apart of the same multiverse." Except the actualy lore based characters like SGDL, 4 Holy Beasts and Royal Knights all have the exact same role, lore and feats to them. Digimon does not follow the same rules as DC so this comparison does not work. "Different universes have different tiers of power and histories hence why it's impossible for them to scale to one another like leomon in adventure died facing meicoomon while tamers leomon damaged beelzebubmon so then again, The tiers of power are different for most universes" Prove this to be the case as no matter what, Digimon have consistent feats throughout the series. Let's ignore how there are feats that come from the Reference Book itself. Different histories doesn't change what a Digimon of a certain level is capable of. Different histories do not effect power unless on Leomon is directly shown to be able to perform feats that are outside of what is commonly seen within its level. Especially when certain stories are literally referenced and canon to one another. See Re:Digitize and Cyber Sleuth which are all connected to the events of X-Evolution, D-Cyber and basically everything Chronicle X related. Not matter the history or world, each still follow the same fundamental rules of the series.
Seth should go look at their "debates" over the vs matches they put Goku and co. in and look at those arguments used and how much of an echo chamber it really is.
Yep. Basically their entire debates section is hax, all hax and nothing else matters. A fucking 7-C level character can beat a 2-C if he has some bullshit hax.
It's disturbing how many profiles of characters have them listed as cosmic level due to a random ass statement they made despite not doing anything in the series they're from, yet Roshi straight up destroying the moon is called into question?
King Piccolo city level is actually an outlier to Roshi moon. Outlier arguments are infinitely more coherent to shut down low end feats than high end feats. Checkmate.
People are weird. We have two separate characters with power levels well below 500 blowing up the moon (the second of which does it casually), and both instances of the moon being blown up are plot-relevant (not comedic gags) with lasting consequences. Elite late-DB characters being moon-busters is one of the most well-established facts in the series.
I am above Chair Level but my nieces are strong enough to destroy a living room. Are they prodigies that can get Super Saiyan with a tingly back in their back?
Even in this time period we're living through it still blows my mind that people like some of these moderators exist with their kind of thinking that Roshi is somehow not Moon Lvl.
Watching this made me remember the time where i talked to a guy who straight up told me that there wasn't a single character that was light speed. I even gave them feats about the nagation stated to be light and he was just "Nah they are supersonic, and it isn't light because it doesn't interact with them in the way light should.... despite them being FUCKING SPIRITS
Hey man you have it better. Every top tier in One Piece gets capped to Island Level with no reasoning simply because they don't destroy the island they are on.
@@udonnauchegbu2018 there's a dude literally made of light and a guy made of lightning that people fight in there. At least death battle didn't underlevel sanji
If you have to ignore everything in late DB or act like it's all outliers and say it doesn't make sense just because....you've loss multiple times over😂
How can someone not be moon level when they literally blew up the moon in early dragon ball...how are they a wiki admin when they don’t have basic fucking knowledge.
I can sympathize as a Pokémon fan. I don't even disagree with every range chosen by the versus battle wiki, but I hate the logic and rationale they use to come to those conclusions. Pokémon is reason I dismissed the site after initially being intrigued when stumbling upon it via the profile on The Chaos Kin. So where do one go after Kid Icarus? I thought their Metroid analysis was comedically wrong, that their Legend Of Zelda stuff was all over the place, but it was still interesting to read. Devil May Cry seemed accurate by my estimations even, but they'll dismiss game data for Pokémon, calling the one shot anime movies more valid for scaling the game monsters even though the anime and game pairs are clearly different continuities. Well, game stats suggest Mega Slaking is universal according to them! And that is why the versus battle wiki is no authority on Pokémon game pair lore.
He destroyed the moon and they had to make a new one. "Didn't happen actually, i want to see it done multiple times" "Also see that guy who was able to beat down a 2 months old child? He's toddler level, the rest is an outlier."
Vs Battle is wack I mean Touhou Project is both wanked and downplayed there(Touhou top tiers are multiversal to Multiversal+ and Sumireko isn’t Island level dammit). I am pretty sure 90% of everyone doesn’t like vs battle.
Found the reason why Seth ain't updating the Kratos situation anytime soon guys. I feel Seth is right to question Cory's statement cuz he didn't specify if it was base to base, but we can rightfully assume Cory meant overall. Cory in a different interview did say Kratos still has some of the PoH
But they give this Treatmemt to nearly all series. They have Superman / Hulk and Thor at Solar system level , Naruto at Moon level and Yusule at continental level.
I remember a Vs battle wiki saying the scarlet king and other elder gods are low complex muilversal Despite the fact it says they are countless dimensional
Man people are laughing stocks seriously obliterating the moon is a planetary feat depending on how you look at it,take into context the surface of the moon and how much kinetic energy it would take to obliterate it to dust that amount of energy he used to blow up the moon would guarantee the destruction of earth,nobody take no real shit unto consideration people can see a fucking nuclear bomb looking feat like what aizen did to ichigo and say ohh well look thats a continent level feat like cmon bro that mountain level at most man.🤣
Even if you think creation>destruction it’s still impossible to quantify just how much so, same thing with different forms of destruction/annihilation. That’s why for the sake of consistency I think it’s fair to place them equal.
don't forget that Gohan was like 4 years old training with piccolo and piccolo was a moonbuster easily at that point. 4 year old Gohan was sitting all over a moon buster as a great ape. that's a 10 times multiplier true, but Gohan hadn't even mastered ki or been properly trained yet. Gohan was late dragonball level give or take by guide books without his rage buff. so a moon level roshi from a few years prior is not even close to out of the question. especially since dragonball characters don't tend to grow a lot until a new challenge appears that they need to surpass, other than the timeskip between cell and buu.
I am a simple man. Roshi obliterated the moon. So ready
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
I am a simple man. I see redhead female avatar. I click
@@rememberme3762 ?
@@DanteAlighieri585?
@@rememberme3762 how dare you send me to a garbage channel
Said to be a moon buster, shown to be a moon buster, said that he could be stronger.
Vs. wiki: An outlier
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
I feel sad as an Admin myself that Roshi isn't 5-C on our site... Cause he should be
💀💀💀
Fancy seeing you here
@@CloverDragon03 Indeed
DemonGodMitch Nice to see you here Mitch I see you on the fate threads
Are you knowledgeable about Tier 2? The Persona thread is currently at a standstill because Dargoo insists we need other staff opinions outside of the ones we've got to agree with the upgrade.
Roshi: blows up the moon so he’s moon level
VSWiki: Nah
They've essentially violated their own rules about Ap (attack potency) =/= Dc (destructive capacity) which lead to characters being planet level for just moving the moon.
Don't get me wrong destroying the moon is a far more complex feat to calc (normally via KE) then simply moving it but VSBW often moves the goal posts so who cares?
@@lynxfresh5214 I mean to be fair most moon level feats are also technically planet level feats if you scale them high enough.
I think that got retconned because Piccolo can apparently not destroy the moon either thanks to DBZ Kakarot which everybody says is CaNon
@@M3rtyville DBZ Kakorat is game canon, not mainline canon
@@M3rtyville yea dbz kakorat is not cannon lol. Game cannon
DBS Goku: *blows up toilet while taking a shit*
Moderators: oh wow goku is a toilet buster all those others feats are outliers.
The toilet was universal level at least
Super demonstrated how improper Ki control can cause massive damage. Beerus and Godku clashes is an example of that thanks to Goku's lack of understanding how to control his God Ki.
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
@@rememberme3762 Interesting gonna have to watch this later.
As well as ki poisoning 😂
Former VsB admin here. can confirm 100% it is a echo chamber. You have to become staff to have a meaningful input
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
Yeah I can see it just looking at CRTs you could have ten people agreeing but because one staff disagrees it is rejected
An echo chamber
Doesnt help with too many cooks in the kitchen
I just love the idea that it's basically "my head cannon doesn't work if this character is as powerful as they are litteraly portrayed to be, therefore they aren't. gg"
Imagine arguing a point that can be debunked by cause and effect.
A baby learns C&E during their first year alive but these people dedicate hours arguing that roshi cant do something he did.
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
They all suffer from an extreme case of dunning-Kruger effect, or something similar. They believe themselves to be so infinitely smarter than the rest that their intelligence is actually easily surpassed by a toddler. These people need help, they shouldn’t be running any websites on the internet
Do the peek-a-boo on them, bet they dont even have Object Permanence
>Revised infinite speed twice so DB couldn't have it
>Has Zamasu at "will become multiversal" despite Zeno nuking everything to kill him
>Won't give any relevant character resistences to at least Shenron's on-screen wishes
lmao, I see you're a survivor of those cancer threads as well.
The most hilarious part was that their own definitions of infinite speed and resistance requirements were perfectly fine until DB was viable for it.
Im fairly ignorant to some of these terms, what does "infinite speed" mean in context? Is it actually infinite speed? Or does it mean something else?
@@emperor5919 I think it means moving through an infinite distance in a finite amount of time at the absolute bare minimum. Or at least this is what I remember.
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
-Zamasu would have become multiversal if he was not stopped so it would count as that
-Shenrons hax depends on power
During his fight with raditz, goku's resting power level of 416 shot up to 924 while using the Kamehameha wave, that's a multiplier of 2.2
If you apply that Kamehameha boost to roshi's resting power of 139 (there's little to no evidence of him training significantly between his moon feat and raditz) you get a power level of 309, which is INCREDIBLY close to piccolo's casual weighted power level of 322 in the saiyan arc when HE destroyed the moon
So not only is it not an outlier, it's an EXTRAORDINARY instance of power levels being consistent
Fax
Makes sense
Spitting facts
If your logic is correct. That would make Roshi large planet level as, in the anime, Piccolo’s feat is calced to be large planet level and a power level of 310 from Roshi’s Kamehameha scales very close to that. Or at least planet level+
@MaloTheYoshi
Lol the site should’ve died years ago, not sure how it’s still kicking. Probably because there’s no real suitable replacement for it.
This is the problem exclusive to super popular fictions on the battle wiki.
True, When u are more popular u would have more hater naturally
Unless it's a flavor of the month
Yeah pretty much. You're either a verse several mods love and will actually be given an accurate rating on, or a verse the mods don't like and your upgrade gets delayed for years. Pretty much the only way you can get the verse you like upgraded is if it's so minor that majority of the mods don't know/care enough about it, or you get at least 20+ supports, at least three mods, and write a whole bible on why a verse's stats should be changed (GoW, DMC, and DBS had to go through all that shit just to get their universal upgrades)
There are a few based mods though, and props to them for making sure other verses don't get the same disrespect Dragon Ball's been getting for years.
more like fictions that the staff don't like.
For the verses they do like. ho boy, just look at the saint seiya verse page, you can actually see the jizz from all the wanking those characters got.
@@ssj_janessa53rd I feel you bro. Rn personally I'm highly insulted with the fgo pages and the asshat retardation reasoning for making them 2A.
I gave up on the bigger shonen verses years ago because I saw the writing on the wall. Really, I've quit the vs wiki altogether.
"Has X ever actually destroyed Y? No so they can't do it."
It can literally happen on screen and will still be denied.
this is why i stopped debating with comic fans you can LITERALLY have something hapen on screen and niggas will still deny it
*cue broly destroying south galaxy*
@@SonGoku-777 vs battle Wiki still better than Quora Superman Fans like they use the logic in that site is completely Bullshit
@@godofthunder5485 I half and half agree
@@SonGoku-777 ikr! They got broly at 4-A as if south Galaxy wasn't:
A. A fucking *galaxy* at the very least
B. Actually a quadrant of galaxies and 1/4 the universe
@@StrongArmElijah vs wiki: I'm gonna pretend I didn't see that
Seth, the sad part about all of this is that I’m not even offended. Beyond the fact that we were on the same side this time (this is Cal btw if it wasn’t obvious), you’d expect a longtime staff member to have some sort of defense for the site he cares about. But I...don’t. Nowadays I form my own opinions outside of the site, not believing the profiles are law. Roshi should be moon. Among many other things. And there’s unaddressed issues in the site. I don’t want any unwanted people to read this and use this as leverage to get me banned or demoted or smth so I’ll leave it here, but just know that even within the staff, there’s discourse.
MASSIVE SCHLONG CAL HOWARD!!!!!! No but in all seriousness you're a real one
This feels like an organization XIII situation from KH (yes I know that's a weird analogy but hear me out) essentially while all the members of the organization have a seat at the table, it's numbers I to VI that hold most of the influence and power while the other members just have to go with whatever decisions that smaller group within the organization come up with.
You did your best man.
You have my empathy for being within this site and all of the bias that comes along with it.
I hope that you are right. Fancy seeing you here btw.
*crush a can*
"Am I can level?"
"Nah bro that's just an outlier."
By the way everyone deadass ignored my comment and didn't respond to me about getting Seth in, sorry boys. GreyFang82 here by the way. Keep up the good shit Seth.
Imma subscribe to you now
Yuh
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
@@rememberme3762 what tf does revolushane have to do with it?
The man used his full power, used a kameha and blew up the moon. It was a serious moment, that lead to Goku going back to his base form, and lead to the wolfman being unable to switch back. It was an action that had consequences felt over the course of like 5 arcs, and I believe was later referenced by Kami. So how exactly is it an outlier? How many times would Roshi ever need to use moon level tier power ever again? He rarely fights seriously, but when he takes Tagumas kick thats an outlier too? All his impressive feats are outliers!
this^^^^
people need to watch OG dragon ball
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
It's literally easier to prove that it's impossible for it to *not* exist if anything.
@LowTierFallout
Lmao and then you have saitama wankers that are literally freely allowed to wank him to fucking boundless or something when he’s basically a featless fodder.
Imagine when DEATH BATTLE is more fair to Roshi than you
That would be in another time line called "hell"
@@somethingsomewhere66 And that's the battle wiki
Ikr, and funny enough even Death Battle used correct scaling for Goku despite using conservative estimates for him. They placed current SSJ3 Goku comfortably at multi-universal level (or low-multiversal depending on how you argue it) yet according to these people Goku is universal+ as SSB and UI.
@@PegasusTenma1 wait, they only put Ui at universal? now that's just denial
@@callmefleet
If you think that was bad, they’re planning to downgrade Zeno to 3-A as well aka Universal because apparently him destroying an entire timeline isn’t considered anything more than a universal to high universal feat at best by them. Fucking death battle’s scaling puts these idiots to shame, that’s how terrible they are
"Roshi isn't a moon level..."
Me: Wait a minute, I'm pretty sure in the anime he literally blew up the Moon. Then stated something like: "I wasn't aiming for Goku, I aimed at the moon instead so that Goku can't turn into a Great Ape." (Okay granted I haven't watched DragonBall in years but I know 100% I've seen Roshi do it.)
Oh wait.. I'm sorry Roshi didn't blow up the Moon. Jackie Chun did a **completely different person** lol.
I quit VSBW awhile ago when it was clear that if you weren't a staff member and/or didn't have close connections to the FANDOM; your statements, evidence, opinions, etc were worth less than shit!
From my personal recent observations:
*The Mario and Sonic supporters have had to form an alliance to try to get anywhere with threads (even that isn't enough).
*Dragon ball supporters consistently gets shit upon and they themselves have somewhat accepted their verse is the laughing stock of the VSBW staff.
*DC/Marvel supporters are trapped in an omega sanction that prevents heralds level characters becoming tier 2 (despite there being dozens of universe level or higher feats/statements) because "inCOnSiSteNCiES".
*Ben 10 supporters constantly get the short end of the stick and Alien X is treated as a punching bag.
*Gravity Falls supporters can only dream of upgrading Bill back to his rightful tier...
*Naruto supporters had to fight their own great ninja war just to get a "possibly FTL" speed rating for the god tier characters while the AP yo-yos between moon level to planet level back to moon level every few months.
*And good luck trying to get any upgrades for any verse/character "certain" staff members don't like... :/
While imo some of the ratings/scaling for certain characters/verses is pure wank (e.g super "composite" Mario bros, ultra "composite" Pokémon and planet level for ALL base Sonic characters) while others suffer from criminal downplay (moon level = "outlier" for OG DB era characters, DC/Marvel heralds being capped at SS level as well as many DBZ Buu saga characters being capped at SS level too).
I can respect the difference in opinions folks have, feel free to disagree/agree however certain staff members (and their simps) have shown little to no respect for different opinions not to mention they're completely self aware of the fact that nothing goes through without their say so (unless it's something incredibly minor) and openly abuse that fact aka an appeal to authority.
Tl;dr VSBW is a website that if certain staff members don't like your favourite fictional verse/characters, you stand little chance against them in a debate about the ratings/scaling (albeit a "debate" where all the odds are stacked against you, where someone can essentially say; "I'm right, you're wrong" then 'win').
The fact that they changed the tiering system so that transcending the concepts of space and time is only Low 1-C now is the final nail in the coffin for me.
- Moreover, we shouldn't forget the Madoka supporters, who can't even hope in the slightest of having their goddess upgraded to her rightful league, much like the GF supporters with Bill, and it's all because *tHaT's NoT hOw HiGhEr-DiMeNsIoNaL eXiStEnCe WoRkS.* Not to mention literally everyone in the verse in general is suffering from massive despair-inducing downplay, especially in AP and speed, but this could just be my thing for strong wahmen lol.
- Saint Seiya supporters constantly tried and failed to get the gods to their rightful tier.
- Minecraft supporters aren't safe either, as they were repeatedly slain by rejections of Low 1-C Player because *DrEaMs DoN't WoRk LiKe ThAt.*
My response to your main points:
- I honestly don't see the problem with super "composite" Mario (It's lowballed to oblivion if anything IMO)
- Don't know about ultra "composite" Pokemon
- Agree with your stance on Tier 2 Heralds (The two verses as a whole are ridiculously downplayed IMO with a few exceptions here and there like TOAA)
- Dunno about Ben 10 scaling other than Alien X being arguably 5D
- Heavily agree with the Bill Cipher stuff (There's even a debunk on High 1-C Bill, which is not only absolute garbage from what I've seen, but said debunk is ironically refuted/debunked as well)
- Heavily agree with Moon/Planet Level OGDB
Some other points from my perspective after looking at the profiles:
- The Masadaverse is insanely wanked from what I've seen. Literally almost everyone there is High 1-A, but I haven't seen a single evidence for the verse being that high (All of the evidence I found moreso points towards just plain ol' regular 1-A rather than straight-up High 1-A)
- SCP Foundation was tragically hit by a massive downgrade storm; every godly SCP got yeeted down to 2-A/Low 1-C. *R.I.P. Perpondrence (can't spell it properly, I'm sorry) of evidence for High 1-B to 1-A SCP that unfortunately got overlooked*
- Naruto (and even Bleach, to some extent) is downplayed, or at least the later part of the verse (Same thing applies for Bleach)
On top of all of these rant-esque points I brought up, their Tiering System in general is a giant mess. My first reply here is more than enough proof to answer why.
@@balazsdocs8897
What tier should Saint Seiya should be?
@@balazsdocs8897 Transcending conventional space and time concept is Low 1-C provided transcendece is by order of infinity though
I loved your comment😂
But yeah what you’re saying is mostly true. The only thing I’d disagree with is the Alien X problem mainly because he was actually multiversal level or 2-B on the site, but unfortunately there’s actually canon evidence from the show to suggest that he isn’t at that level.
I would argued that for story reasons Roshi destroying the moon can’t be an outlier when the feat is referenced several times. It came up in a gag fight, they talked about not worrying anymore about Goku turning into a monster, and Goku lost his tail so Kami can put the moon back.
So how can something that impacted the story be an outliner?
A feat impacting the story doesnt mean isnt outlier at all
And why is a feat that has a story impact an outliner?
@@Ramona122003
Whenever i see people use "outliner" and not outlier it irks me a little...
So now just cuz a feat happened in story and has such an impact means its legit? By that logic you can upgrade literally any series to a certain level just cuz of a single feat
Except nothing in the story goes against Roshi busting the moon on top of the story impact.
@@blackdarkness6798 that being on top of the fact it's never contraddicted makes you question why these guys even debate
VS battles wiki has blatant double standards. The more obscure and nobody cares a verse the more they scale them off whatever BS wank the 1 person on the site who cares about it says it is. But if it's a verse that is actually popular, then they will refuse to change regardless of anything. Did you see the insanity of the GOW arguments where they refused to accept Kratos being above multi-continental for months?
Kratos is above Universal 😂
@@maj1nprince universal is even a downplay he can be scaled to multiverisal
@@anthonyargueta131 You’re not wrong. I was just being generous. Characters from the God of War franchise have ridiculous feats.
For example, Thor’s first fight with the World Serpent shook all Nine Realms. He then went on to splinter the World Tree, a construct that transcends time and space in all of the realms, in their second fight. With help from his father, he defeated the fire giant Surtr, who, in his dying breath after said fight, swung his sword and erased all of existence. Those statements/lore makes Thor low Multiversal.
@@maj1nprince I've heard about Lore Kratos about Complex Multiversal or something like that, so God of War is indeed pretty damn powerful.
@@balazsdocs8897 That scaling comes from the true yggdrasil that transcends the concepts of time and space not to mention that's only the Norse pantheon (with the Celtic, Shito and Egyptian pantheons confirmed to exist in GOW).
The outlier argument is so annoying I swear I thought every sane human being agreed on Moon level Roshi easily 5-C
Although what’s more than annoying for me is them Downgrading MHA characters to City level because apparently the Mountain level feat is an outlier why idk
Omfg. Vswiki is dog shit. Shigaraki destroyed 3 mountains in an instant along with a third of the city. But naw that's city level 🤦♂️
@@xvx_j_xvx5255 Even worse is that they rate current Shigaraki as only Town level tf same for Endeavor even tho Shigaraki has been stated several times by credible sources to compare to All might or how Deku and Bakugo dispersed that thunder Storm on screen yet now it's an outlier
@@thatoneguy4504 I only use vswiki for their tiering system. For the rest of the feats and scaling I do it myself
@@xvx_j_xvx5255 I also use there calcs sometimes to as those are helpful I just really don't like their scaling it gives me a headache and the sad part is I complained about their mha scaling but their Naruto scaling is like way worse their Demon slayer scaling also made me wanna jump off a cliff Only verse they scale decently is fate that's it
I only ever use them for quickly gathering scans and such, not really their calcs, as they heavily downplay so many franchises, especially dragon ball.
Roshi blew up the moon straight up in db, there is no arguing that he isn’t moon level. People that don’t think Roshi is moon level probably think the earth is flat, too.
N considering dc is a much more impressive demonstration of a feat than mere ap is just more of a coherency to roshi being moon lvl.
How can you say he isn’t moon level when he literally blew up the moon in like 2 seconds
He’s the god of debate Long may he reign
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html ..
If piccolo early into training for the saiyan's can blow up the moon with a casual energy blast with no charge up, then Roshi can moon bust with full power and a Power boosting move (Kamehameha).
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
Weren't we here 3 months ago. Vs battle wiki rising again
This is why DC and Marvel are still stuck at 4-B(Solar System level) just so you guys know.
No, silver surfer is a solar system buster
@Martin Ramirez he have many solar system feats,so yeah he is solar system level
If someone says freaking Silver Surfer isn't Solar System level, you know the person don't read Comics at all
Y'all gotta be playing, only 4-b that's ridiculous.
@Supes Is fodder Nice troll
He literally destroyed the moon, why can't he be moon level?
@@rememberme3762 STOP SPAMMING NINGEN.
Because it's an "outlier"
@@tonyhawksproskater2406 honestly VSwiki stuff are horrible 😅
Thata not an outlier🤡
He, LITERALLY blew up the fucking moon???
It's like drinking water, recording it, posting it on the internet, and a group of people say, "No you didn't."
The fuck is this.
who else also watched this one stream? 🍻
Me hahah
Not me haha
Sadly I could only watch the Vod
I did
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
Character: *literally blows up the moon*
Random admins: yeah but does that really mean they're moon level?
I'm interested to see how the fuck this is an hour long, the subject is pretty cut and dry. There's literally direct explicit evidence of Roshi destroying the moon.
By their logic if I can curl 300 pounds by myself once with no weight training then I can’t lift 300 pounds because someone who is clearer alot stronger (can push to 1000) did the same thing I did but casually. That’s practically their “outlier” debate summed up
Why is so hard for people😂 if I'm stronger than a guy who can destroy the moon why tf wouldn't I also be able to?
If people can’t even handle a freaking website properly then does the current state of the world surprise you? The powers in charge aren’t better than any of these idiots.
Seththeprogramer vs all of anime Instagram
Seth why do clowns think Ichigo is multiversal 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Honestly I prefer those people rather than the ones who say Roshi isn't Moon level
Aizens statement about ichigo being a higher dimensional tier above him which has statements kinda supporting it with the sokyoku stated to overwhelm everything in existence in the first databook and the 3rd databook says that mugetsu is above everything in the verse at that time including, the weakened soul king, squad 0, the sokyoku, and bankai yamamoto but you could chop it down to that aizen just can't fathom someone being far stronger than him and if ichigo truely was a higher dimensional being there's no way aizen could react to a higher being but we know that aizen was encroaching on ichigos strength at the end with him fusing with kyoka suigetsu but if urahara hadn't sealed him he might have kept getting stronger and eventually surpassed mugetsu
@@turnerbrawley4715 That just sound like a bunch of dimensional tiering nonsense, not gonna lie.
@@balrogdemorgoth4741 how is it nonsense? I did provide evidence supporting it and against it
@@turnerbrawley4715 I was saying the whole 'highter dimensional' argument was dimensional tiering nonsense, not that your comment was nonsense.
People who confront Seth in a debate by calling him names or people who are ignorant or disingenuous with their claims: "Grrr Seth is mean!" Seth in a debate calling his opponents buddy, letting his opponent state their claim even if its outrages sometimes, and takes his time to educate his opponents. Honestly I fell in the hate train against Seth in the past and Im here to say sorry.
The truth is in the middle. He clearly isn't the madman many people accuse him of being but he still bullies innocent people for no other reason than to be funny.
@@dungeon-wn4gw if you think that is bullying than you are a weak ass fool man... you would not survive a week in Brasil.
@@vanconojl. Err, but what he said is literally bullying, making fun of others by insulting them, I live in Latin America and my classmates do that, it is not "being weak" or something like that, and do you really expect people taking you seriously if Seth just keep insulting people again and again?
@@gerardogarcia7933 that is weak shit here in brasil 5 of my classmates mobbed my ass at lunch and i got hit in the nuts so bad i spend the entire lunch break on the ground hahaha those were the days. besides calling someone bad names on the internet is weak stuff anyone that cant handle some thing like that cant survive on the outside competitive world.
@@ssj_janessa53rd yea i feel you but if you let ego balloons like those guys unpopped you only get trouble later on. when you deal with these kind of people you must thoroughly crush and destroy them break their spirit. you must pull the weed by it roots else it will grow again. well at least that is how we do it in brasil least they show up and cause trouble for you.
"Tri-Beam is not moon level because it only blew up the arena and not more of the planet."
These characters have been shown to be able to control the amount of destruction their attacks cause for years now. Almost all of the explosions and blasts they cause are concentrated energy. Otherwise the planet would be erased the moment a super saiyan sneezes.
It’s also like why tf would tenshinhan purposely use a moon level or higher attack on the planet what he just wants to murder a billion people instantly or something. Like especially at that point in time cuz he was already reformed by goku and roshi and the kikoho was a strategic play to get goku out of the ring in general. There’s literally 0 reason why he would just unleash absolute hell on everyone there besides just the ring, but obviously these dumbass moderators DONT actually watch the show or read the manga they just assume
the weakest tri-beam was about 1/4 of its original power which Tien used against Goku.
The majin vegeta final explosion was a great argument. Like obviously Majin vegeta could've destroyed the whole planet but he only wanted to target Buu.
You could even see his ki flowing out too. Maybe Majin Vegeta is town level by vsbattles standards lol
It's like they force that narrative to make the earlier DB arcs way weaker than post-Sayian saga arcs on purpose, as if it makes them uncomfortable or something, it's especially noticeable with the Tenshinhan thing, it's like it was sacrilege to make him a moon buster even though he was superior to a stronger Roshi in the 22th Budokai.
He literally fucking blew up the moon on screen why is this even a fucking discussion
Seth vs Wiki Admins
Agumon
Jesus seth stop feeding us so much
No
We need MORE.
No, I'm hungry.
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
The outlier argument is so dumb because it’s pretty much the unintellectual’s way out by saying “iT’S NOt CoNSiSTEnT” and it’s dumb because why tf would we destroy the moon, planets, universes and etc every 4 seconds that’s why we use SCALING, official GUIDES, and official STATEMENTS. And the only thing that they bring up is “uhhh he’s only done it once so it’s an outlier” even though this is a linear story with one writer and everything is consistent unlike DC with 20 million different authors and interpretations can have the character stronger or weaker than their other iteration.
They use the outlier argument all the time when they dont want to accept the feat they even tried doing that shit against the goku and beerus universe clash. Even though they did it in the manga and we all know the anime and the manga take diffrent directions in the story so I dont see how it could be a outlier.
@@johnsonwayne7136 it’s sad because it’s made apparent that the Vs Wiki staff are dumb since they are horrible at debates that even a person with basic knowledge of the series could stomp all the mods with no dip.
@@SageTKYO they are biased against almost every verse except the ones they like
@@johnsonwayne7136 mhm and they themselves use outlier incorrectly because of the fact that literally all of the characters they scaled on their site wouldn’t even be building level let alone wall level
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
Seth roasting the "Roshi ain't moon level" heretics is priceless
A small nitpick. Shenron was recreated by Kami using a clay statue, not paper. Still, it has been stated several times that all the dragons outside of Super Shenron are limited by their creator's power. Which is why Shenron couldn't kill the Saiyans since Kami couldn't kill them. Same thing happened at the end of the Namek Saga when the Namekian dragon couldn't bring Goku to Earth because Goku refused and he couldn't force him unlike Super Shenron who granted Zamasu's body swapping wish.
Another point, Roshi had to put a lot of effect into destroying the moon since Roshi more or less said that was his max power. In comparison, King Piccolo could destroy an entire city with a wave of his hand and the cities in Dragon Ball are actually huge to the point that West City is basically a continent (they actually call West City sector which Piccolo was going to destroy so it wasn't just West City itself but everything within that sector).
Finally, calling Roshi only mountain level is crazy when you consider that Roshi wasn't trying to destroy the mountain, just put out the fire. Which means, he was holding back and still accidentally destroyed it. And that Roshi was out of shape. Roshi is actually stronger during the 21st tournament and even stronger in the 22nd since he actually said he has been training in preparing to fight Goku again.
6 Yearsssssssss 6 fricken YeArSsssssss
These people need to get better at debating, Seth just stomps them.
@@meachew lol that's why he is daddy to them he soned all of them
@@lighttheprogrammeryt9173 more like baptized them
the "moderator ecochamber" thing is so true it hurts, they will just decide shit on their own without even contacting knowledgeable members, I'm going through the same thing right now with Metal Gear.
Matthew Schroeder is so toxic can't stand that guy. Matt is one of the worst downplayers on vs wiki.
Matt was literally caught in 4K saying that he didn’t want DB verse getting upgraded to low 1-C using legit statements and their own site’s logic simply because they didn’t want DB verse being on the same level as they wank Saint Seiya verse to by using fanfiction and non-canon bullshit. This site should’ve died years ago
The 3 dislikes are the VS Wiki Admins
I need more of this! Maybe you could go over more of these with more than just Dragon Ball in the future.
Seriously, what happened to VSwiki? The last time I was an active member on that forum was back in 2016 and the last time I even visited the site was last year. The entire website and pretty much all of it’s “staff” have shown almost no real attempt at proper scaling, no attempt at looking into any series they’re scaling as a whole, no attempt to take into account outside sources such as author statements, databooks, translations, etc, and no attempt at taking into account the ideas of anyone who isn’t in their “team”.
And as for the “staff” themselves... almost none actually know what they’re talking about. They’ve become so overly obsessed with “consistency” and “outliers” in recent years that they’re stuck in a perpetual state of their own head-canon to the point at which they’ll completely discard feats in order to keep a given character down at the level they prefer (a good example being Thor still stuck at Solar-System level, the poor guy 😂).
Well the source material is the best to use rather than secondary sources since the original source material is the authors 1st and best interpretation
Like for Example FT on the wiki the only things accepted as canon is all 3 FT mangas aka Zero,OG FT,100YQ since they were written by hiro and are referenced in the manga
Also both movies are canon as they fit into the timeline and are referenced in the manga
There’s 3 anime only arcs but only the key of the starry sky arc is canon as it’s referenced in the manga
Everything else is non canon
yeah that is what is happening to naruto we keep getting more and more feats/statements and they still keep moon level
What in the goddamn did they do to Thor
One of my recent favorite things is how I distinctly remember Omni Man (comics version) being a lot stronger but then he got nerfed after the animated series came out.
Imagine thinking someone isn’t moon lvl after seeing them destroy it 🗿
I don't think he'll accept the call, i'm sure he doesn't want to be bent over backwards into a human pretzel
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html .
@@rememberme3762 Umm why did you send this to me?
@@TrueReverse74 Watch it.😐
@@rememberme3762 i did watch it which was why I asked
@@rememberme3762 WHY did you send it tho is what he's asking
I would even argue that DB is lowballed and that At least Z Goku/piccolo vs raditz is planetary but I would go as far to say that end of original DB characters could be
In DBZ anime they’re all large planet level, Raditz might even be close to multi-planetary in the anime.
I clicked on the video to finish it. The first thing I heard was “It’s a FUCKING MODERATER!”
Man, as an actual admin I have to actually apologize to you for that Roshi thread. The fact that Roshi is not 5-C to this day is annoying and it's simply because everyone love throwing around the term "outlier". At this most, a lot of mods don't even bother and those who agree with it just give up as no matter what, you won't win with certain things on that site. It's really fucking irritating. And this extends to any popular verse at that.
Sup Dragon, glad to see you, Mitch, Cal and other staff are willing to speak up.
I completely agree with your semi-rant on a thread awhile back on the unfair pitfalls/stigma that DBZ supporters have to go through on VSBW.
@@lynxfresh5214 It's really sad to be honest. I stopped bothering with Dragon Ball because of how many people are blatantly against it. You support any upgrade to DB, you're a wanker. You go against the idea that certain verses can only be X tier and you are labeled a fanboy. I don't have the time to deal with that bullshit when this is no more than a hobby. Once again, this applies to all of the popular verses as well. So when Seth goes on and debunks this shit, I can only smile.
It's unfortunate that when people think VsWiki staff, this is what they see. The place comes off as a hivemind when it's not like that completely. But unfortunately, the place can easily be an echo chamber that refuses to actually here others thoughts and opinions.
@@dragonmasterxyz3544 Yeah that obscene behaviour as well as bias that so called "trusted" and "reliable" staff members getaway with is disgusting, VS debating should indeed just be a fun hobby but some folks act as if they'll die if a certain popular verse/character gets upgraded... :/
The fact VSBW felt like an echo-chamber, hivemind, dictatorship, etc (to me) is why I left (the hypocrisy of being told that the opinions/arguments of regular users is important when Seth's own vid proves otherwise doesn't help either).
I wish you, Cal, Mitch and other likeminded staff members the best for the future (I know a few rotten apples doesn't mean the whole tree is bad but VSBW left such a bad taste, I don't think I'll return for a second bite anytime soon).
@@bob74h67 " Funny coming from you saying as you banned missy0724 or me for proving your digimon canon to be incorrect so you're just as bad as the other moderators as you ban people when they point out your inaccuracies. "
I never banned Missy. Missy was reported and banned by someone else for something else that was out of my control, i.e making a massive upgrade on a file without a CRT from what it seems like and I guess something to do with your behavior of Dragon Ball threads (you also never proved us wrong. You in fact showed a lack of knowledge on Digimon when we had scans that you refused to even look at) so you should probably review who banned you.
"you moderators on that site are all the same, You ether shut down threads or ban users for disagreements infact your one of the worse ones on that site along with ant due to lying about certain details like how you stated how not all digimon verses scale to one another yet next second, you scaled to lucemon from frontier to the demon lords as a example."
Never shut down the thread nor banned Missy for disagreeing. Except I never lied. Except Lucemon is literally the Member of the Seven Great Demon Lords, his backstory as a Demon Lord is literally his backstory in Frontier. So yes, Lucemon scales to the SGDL as he's literally a member of the SGDL. You realize there are multiple avatars of SGDL Lucemon spread infinitely across the entire multiverse right? I never lied and I even specified. You all debunked nothing. I said and I quote;
"That's not how that works. We use every single source, but we also separate Digimon by species as well as certain characters. We still scale the same across media and the rules of the general level and abilities are the same. DigiXros is different, but still falls within general scaling."
"This does not contradict them being canon. Both are canon as both are different worlds. In this case there would be a Dorulumon file for both the anime and the manga. General scaling would still apply."
"I think you are misunderstanding what we mean by canon to one another. I hope you aren't assuming we scale the likes of Tai to Takato or something for feats in their respective series, because we don't. We have General Digimon feats, and blatant exceptions get scaled differently. There is a baseline tier for each evolutionary stage which pages follow via feats down by an average member of the species. No matter the world, unless the Digimon is stated to be more powerful compared to other mons of it's evolutionary level or species, the others scale to this as a base. Their stories are canon, but they all fall under the same multiverse and same cosmology. This does not change."
"Yeah, your comment shows that you are misunderstanding what we mean by "they are all canon to one another. We do not scale D-Reaper to Yggdrassil because there is nothing cosmology wise that supports this scaling. D-Reaper scales to the 4 Holy Beasts by feats, so that's the level D-Reaper will scale to. Entities who are far lower of the hierarchy for the cosmology and much weaker. If you read our blogs you would understand all this. We even have a blog regarding our Top/God Tier scaling listed on the verse page."
"We have stated time in time again that being in a different universe =/= they are non canon to each other. The events of Adventure still happened as per the overall Digimon canon. However, this does not mean that suddenly Taichi's WarGreymon and Masaru's ShineGreymon are suddenly scaled to one another as they both have fought Digimon with different feats that surpass the evolutionary stage's baseline. Taichi with the Dark Masters and Masaru with the Royal Knights. Masaru's feats are objectively superior and despite Taichi's actions being canon to the multiverse, they do not effect Masaru unless there was a sense of general scaling involved."
And once again, never once closed the thread on you nor banned you. So you should put that blame on someone else as I actually continued to debate you until you were banned by Medeus. Never once did I say "ban this person because they disagree with me".
"It's a hivemind because everyone who the mods disagree with gets kicked off the site so that only leaves the select minority of people who agree with them but then again your one of the same people who caused this issue so you made your bed now slept in it"
Except no I'm not. Never banned Missy and I never even said "Ban Missy". This was the work of someone else. Looking at your block, Medeus was the one who blocked you. I even said
"Well, he's someone whose very hard to deal with, the Digimon thread he made kinda shows that he's not willing to listen to others and thinks anything that doesn't agree with him is "stupid" and likes to pull the whole "mod will just shut me down" card whenever he doesn't get his way while acting like he is the one arguing with "facts and logic" despite being clearly in the wrong and unwilling to even look at sources. Although, it's more an annoyance so I do not agree with banning him on this alone. Although editing the tiering to such a degree without an accepted CRT is a big issue."
You were banned for editing profiles drastically without a revision. If anything, they banned you moreso over fucking Dragon Ball and less anything I did when I flat out said you disagreeing with me on Digimon was not something ban worthy.
vsbattles.com/threads/taichi-kamiyas-agumon-vs-masaru-daimons-agumon.81390/#post-2752538
Just so that you can't just lie and act like I didn't debate you and just blocked you.
Also, for your rule violation report that wasn't made by me btw.
vsbattles.com/threads/rule-violations-reports-66.79619/page-4#post-2696232
But I will happily have this discussion in DMs, just between you and me if you so wish now that you know I am not the one who banned you.
@@bob74h67
"Your own scans that you used as proof even stated that there are different timelines like this scan here as a example imgur.com/a/5XcTxOE so no not everything would be canon to one another even according to your own sources."
Different Timelines =/= Not Canon to one another, especially when the Royal Knights themselves travel throughout time and space all the time and the SGDL have avatars spread across all of time and space. The events of Adventure is still canon to Cyber Sleuth. However, Adventure itself does not effect Cyber Sleuth unless there are general feats for Digimon. No one in CS is scaling to say, Tai. This debunks literally nothing. Different timelines doesn't change what is canon to the franchise. They are not mutually inclusive.
"What massive upgrade, can you be more specific?"
According to the thread, Upgrading Beat from 4-A to 2-B. Can't really be more specific as that was something I had no involvement in. Read the thread I posted that detailed your RvT.
"The same scans that stated their are different timelines debunking your whole everything is canon to one another nonsense, I didt address them because it did not disprove anything stated by me infact it proved my statements to be correct."
That doesn't disprove canonicity. Multiple timelines in fact prove that everything is canon as it shows explains why events from one series are not mentioned in another despite them all happening. I do not see how being more than one timeline debunks everything is canon whatsoever.
"In what episode was this stated and even if that were the case, It would not justify scaling to different timelines where the tiers of power are different like do you seriously think that lucemon from xros wars would last 5 seconds against lucemon from frontier?"
The Lucemon from Frontier follows the SGDL Lucemon's background which is the fact that he rebelled and was sealed away by the Warrior Ten in the Dark Area. This is literally the entire plot of Frontier. Prove that Lucemon is actually an avatar of the SGDL Lucemon. I can prove it for Frontier, Re:Digitize, Savers: Another Mission, Next 0rder, Chronicle X and Cyber Sleuth. But give me evidence for it in Xros Wars. Xros Wars Lucemon is not even factored in on site.
"So composited versions in other words which would make sense if it was applied to something with a loosely defined canon like dragon ball or naruto however digimon has very defined multiverse so that type of scaling does not work really."
How so. It has a defined multiverse, however Digimon lacks a defined canon. And no, they are not fully composited otherwise all Piedmon would scale to the 4 Holy Beasts and Daisuke's Magnamon would actually scale to the Royal Knight member. Something we do not do. Also, Digimon has defined lore and as such the stats of lore based characters should remain consistent and the same.
"But your complacent with people who do and you ignored my request to debate you in dms so yes your apart of the problem."
I don't remember you ever asking me to DM you (show me please) and even then, I literally just requested a DM lol
"Again that has no basis because child digimon can be stronger then adult level digimon at times and some series like xros wars do not even follow standard levels."
Except it has a basis as the Child Digimon who performed the feat hadn't shown anything out of the ordinary and these feats are consistent for Digimon of that level. And the Child Digimon who show exceptional feats above others are directly noted and we take that into account. See Tamers Renamon or like Arkadimon and Lucemon who each do not scale to the baseline Rookie Tier. Also, this comment on how XW does not follow standard levels has aged like milk as Bandai has quite literally made it so that they do follow standard level just recently. And even if they didn't, we made it clear that XW Digimon scale to whatever standard level they consistently combat. Basic scaling at that point.
"Yea but the standard used to define that baseline is both subjective and factually incorrect so thats a moot point really."
The standard to find that baseline is finding consistent feats among the actual evolutionary stage and using them for scaling. Especially when the series make it a point to note that evolutionary stages are levels of power as well as we get constant notes of how some lower tiered Digimon may have skills that can harm higher level Digimon or like how in Digimon NEXT, GeoGreymon (who had the Dragon Memory) was stated to be "near the level of a Perfect", implying that there is a level of power Digimon of this level have. And that's how we come up with the general tiers for Digimon as a whole. Versus debating as a whole is subjective buddy. However, we all use standards and feats to find a consistent level for characters to be at. That's how that works. Your way is no more correct than my way.
"I much rather debate here saying as you cannot shut me down to ignore arguments if we do so here and you ignored my dms on the wki last time, Why should i care about your request this time when you did not care to respond to me last time."
Once again, when did you ask me to DM you? Show me this and show me actually responding to it as it is very likely I did not see it. Also, you keep acting like I am ignoring shit when I can say the same for you. Stop acting like you're the one being ignored or shut down when I have never once done that to you. We've literally only debated once. You claimed I was trying to shut you down and that I would ban you and block you when I never once did that. So let me ask, where the actual fuck did this opinion of me come from when I have always responded to your points and never just blocked you. The original thread proves this fact. Stop projecting your hate of staff on me when I did nothing what you accuse me of, especially when we've only interacted once and that was in that thread.
"Also you ignored my comment on the other one of seth's vs battles wiki videos so then again why should i respect your request when you did not have the same common courtesy to me."
What video? Show me this comment. You are saying I did this stuff, but you aren't actually showing me doing this stuff. I don't even have a notification from you. Show me this. Like above, unless you show me doing this shit I have reason to believe you are making shit up.
"When did i do that?"
Literally stated in the Thread I posted. Read it. Once again, I wasn't involved in that.
"The mods did shut me down so guess what, I was right and define what you mean by getting my way?"
I did not shut you down, you were banned for something else entirely, read the thread. You disagreeing with Digimon wasn't why you were banned. Get your way as in not convincing me that you were 100% factual and as such you resorted to saying I was gonna shut you down and ban you when I myself did nothing of the sort. The lack of self awareness really hurts your case.
"Just because they apart of the same multiverse does not equate to them scaling to one another unless you think new 52 superman should scale to the animated series superman because their apart of the same multiverse."
Except the actualy lore based characters like SGDL, 4 Holy Beasts and Royal Knights all have the exact same role, lore and feats to them. Digimon does not follow the same rules as DC so this comparison does not work.
"Different universes have different tiers of power and histories hence why it's impossible for them to scale to one another like leomon in adventure died facing meicoomon while tamers leomon damaged beelzebubmon so then again, The tiers of power are different for most universes"
Prove this to be the case as no matter what, Digimon have consistent feats throughout the series. Let's ignore how there are feats that come from the Reference Book itself. Different histories doesn't change what a Digimon of a certain level is capable of. Different histories do not effect power unless on Leomon is directly shown to be able to perform feats that are outside of what is commonly seen within its level. Especially when certain stories are literally referenced and canon to one another. See Re:Digitize and Cyber Sleuth which are all connected to the events of X-Evolution, D-Cyber and basically everything Chronicle X related. Not matter the history or world, each still follow the same fundamental rules of the series.
Seth should go look at their "debates" over the vs matches they put Goku and co. in and look at those arguments used and how much of an echo chamber it really is.
ua-cam.com/video/jfMU6zWU-s0/v-deo.html ..
Yep. Basically their entire debates section is hax, all hax and nothing else matters. A fucking 7-C level character can beat a 2-C if he has some bullshit hax.
*how many times do we have to teach you this lesson old man *
It's disturbing how many profiles of characters have them listed as cosmic level due to a random ass statement they made despite not doing anything in the series they're from, yet Roshi straight up destroying the moon is called into question?
There's still a fuckload of DB characters lowballed on there too lmao
Roshi literally blows up the moon. As in he straight up does. Objectively. We literally saw it happen.
How is this at all debateable?
King Piccolo city level is actually an outlier to Roshi moon. Outlier arguments are infinitely more coherent to shut down low end feats than high end feats. Checkmate.
"Yeah but my feelings." -the insane staff.
People are weird. We have two separate characters with power levels well below 500 blowing up the moon (the second of which does it casually), and both instances of the moon being blown up are plot-relevant (not comedic gags) with lasting consequences. Elite late-DB characters being moon-busters is one of the most well-established facts in the series.
We did it, boys, he's now moon level.
I am above Chair Level but my nieces are strong enough to destroy a living room. Are they prodigies that can get Super Saiyan with a tingly back in their back?
Even in this time period we're living through it still blows my mind that people like some of these moderators exist with their kind of thinking that Roshi is somehow not Moon Lvl.
He’s not even close lol
@@maka8551 he’s higher
"Hidey hole" Why was that so sexual??? lol
Watching this made me remember the time where i talked to a guy who straight up told me that there wasn't a single character that was light speed. I even gave them feats about the nagation stated to be light and he was just "Nah they are supersonic, and it isn't light because it doesn't interact with them in the way light should.... despite them being FUCKING SPIRITS
Hey man you have it better. Every top tier in One Piece gets capped to Island Level with no reasoning simply because they don't destroy the island they are on.
@@udonnauchegbu2018 there's a dude literally made of light and a guy made of lightning that people fight in there. At least death battle didn't underlevel sanji
If you have to ignore everything in late DB or act like it's all outliers and say it doesn't make sense just because....you've loss multiple times over😂
Vs Wiki is wack tbh
We need ppl like Seth calling these wiki adminis out
How can someone not be moon level when they literally blew up the moon in early dragon ball...how are they a wiki admin when they don’t have basic fucking knowledge.
No one:
Seth: Thank you, normal human being.
I can sympathize as a Pokémon fan. I don't even disagree with every range chosen by the versus battle wiki, but I hate the logic and rationale they use to come to those conclusions. Pokémon is reason I dismissed the site after initially being intrigued when stumbling upon it via the profile on The Chaos Kin. So where do one go after Kid Icarus? I thought their Metroid analysis was comedically wrong, that their Legend Of Zelda stuff was all over the place, but it was still interesting to read. Devil May Cry seemed accurate by my estimations even, but they'll dismiss game data for Pokémon, calling the one shot anime movies more valid for scaling the game monsters even though the anime and game pairs are clearly different continuities. Well, game stats suggest Mega Slaking is universal according to them! And that is why the versus battle wiki is no authority on Pokémon game pair lore.
He destroyed the moon and they had to make a new one.
"Didn't happen actually, i want to see it done multiple times"
"Also see that guy who was able to beat down a 2 months old child? He's toddler level, the rest is an outlier."
Vs Battle is wack I mean Touhou Project is both wanked and downplayed there(Touhou top tiers are multiversal to Multiversal+ and Sumireko isn’t Island level dammit).
I am pretty sure 90% of everyone doesn’t like vs battle.
Found the reason why Seth ain't updating the Kratos situation anytime soon guys. I feel Seth is right to question Cory's statement cuz he didn't specify if it was base to base, but we can rightfully assume Cory meant overall. Cory in a different interview did say Kratos still has some of the PoH
Everybodys talkin about the debate, meanwhile I, an intellectual, appreciate the solid background music choice. Nice Seth
I aint gonna cap but this music aint my type its to calm
everybody be talking about the debate, meanwhile I, a man of culture, appreciate seth's avatar for this channel ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
But they give this Treatmemt to nearly all series.
They have Superman / Hulk and Thor at Solar system level , Naruto at Moon level and Yusule at continental level.
Seththeprogrammers next powerscale is gonna be 2 VS Wiki mods vs the world
Mods get stomped
I remember a Vs battle wiki saying the scarlet king and other elder gods are low complex muilversal
Despite the fact it says they are countless dimensional
Lmao, they have anti spiral at high complex and the elder gods stomp the shit out of anti spiral
This site is so garbage.
Dende actually had his potential unlocked by guru and has ki control so I doubt dende can get fucked by regular weapons
Man people are laughing stocks seriously obliterating the moon is a planetary feat depending on how you look at it,take into context the surface of the moon and how much kinetic energy it would take to obliterate it to dust that amount of energy he used to blow up the moon would guarantee the destruction of earth,nobody take no real shit unto consideration people can see a fucking nuclear bomb looking feat like what aizen did to ichigo and say ohh well look thats a continent level feat like cmon bro that mountain level at most man.🤣
Sorry for the bad spelling phone is fucked 😁😘
debate the entire vs wiki mods at the same time please
Roshi isn't moon level? What are you gonna tell me next that Frieza isn't Krillin level?
They changed it finally
They even gave drum,23 rd budokai Yamcha to moon level finally
The OPM fans are at it again with the gag character bs
Saitama is a gag character nuff said
Thats how opm fanboys be its so annoying
@@redeye8743 bruh, they are the same people who say "saitama can beat the one above all"
@@somethingsomewhere66 lol ikr
Might aswell call Goku a gag character and he has more gag scenes/panels than Saitama...
DBtards are WAY worse.
Blue KKx10 Super Goku is Tile Level
Mui goku is carpet level
Piccolo Jr. Shits on all of dbz until Fat Buu since he's stronger than Majin Vegeta
Plot twist Seth is the most beautiful man from flapjack hence why he doesn't show his face you will love seth for his combs
I will happily debate literally anyone on Creation being more superior than Destruction when it comes to determining power scaling.
Even if you think creation>destruction it’s still impossible to quantify just how much so, same thing with different forms of destruction/annihilation. That’s why for the sake of consistency I think it’s fair to place them equal.
Beerus isn’t above planet level, the time he blew up a planet is an outlier
Nappa isn't city level.
Once he destroyed city is outlier.
don't forget that Gohan was like 4 years old training with piccolo and piccolo was a moonbuster easily at that point. 4 year old Gohan was sitting all over a moon buster as a great ape. that's a 10 times multiplier true, but Gohan hadn't even mastered ki or been properly trained yet. Gohan was late dragonball level give or take by guide books without his rage buff. so a moon level roshi from a few years prior is not even close to out of the question. especially since dragonball characters don't tend to grow a lot until a new challenge appears that they need to surpass, other than the timeskip between cell and buu.
Is this Seth's 2nd channel?
Dint he legit destroy the moon in the anime
And manga
And guides
Author in his own words said fodders "rabbit gang" survived the the destruction of the moon