@@SteinixosI think this video is pretty good but there are some things I need to say if a character have no limit to their power system then it has been stated in the manga in Fairy Tail as much as I don't like Fairy Tail just to put that out there what turns out this video is pretty okay pretty good I suppose
An arsonist can start a forest fire so that means they're forest level. Their durability should scale to their AP which means arsonists can survive an explosion that can destroy a forest. Also, the humans who created nukes can one-shot cities with their fists.
A dung beetle can pull over 1000 times their own weight and any average human scales above that, meaning they should be able to hold hundereds if not thousands of tons.
I should point out that with the Soul King, it isn't *just* creation. The Soul King being alive and exerting his energy passively is what keeps Bleach's cosmology from collapsing in on itself. And yes, it is a cosmology. Each world is separated dimensionally by the Garganta and each world has its own night sky.
@@THED3ADLY7cease to exist (as it is) The implication was that all the realms would just be mashed together, and you’d have a really messed up amalgamation world that wouldn’t necessarily function “properly”
I guess i just find the display kinda boring since Bleach never shows this kinda stuff in its "true scale". The biggest on screen thing we see in TYBW was like, the schutzstaffel doing some attack that damages like a quarter of warwelt or something, but even then it still looked like Mugetsu was bigger. Like yea i guess Yhwach affected things in three universes, but even then we never see it in a truly "up to scale" perspective. It's also why i don't particularly appreciate stuff like Boruto either (power scaling wise), because we never actually SEE feats that match their scale, it's just some "X is stronger than Y therefore Z" or "It was stated in CFYOW" type stuff that makes it so boring to look at spectacle wise. This is supposed to be some big deal three universes smashing together shi but literally what i see on screen just looks like concrete floating in three different places (and it's always karakura town in the living world for some reason. London exists too yk) I understand the implications of the powers at play, but i just don't FEEL it the way power scaling wants me to. Makes me appreciate stuff like Gurren Laggan or Dragon Ball since it really does show scale like it means it.
@@unioneye1087 I understand you r frustrations but imo bleach does the on another scale thing better than most shonen but boruto is just so shit at power display and fights that I fully believe that they could fight in a parking lot and the only damage that would occur is a crack in the ground that's how bad boruto is visually
Any attack potency greater than mountain level becomes hard to mentally imagine. Once there is an attack level capable of blowing up a moon, then fighting on the ground becomes difficult to put into a story. Like why does the power clash between 2 entities that can destroy a moon not just annihilate the entire landscape when they seriously try to kill each other.
Which is why to this day I don't get how Bleach scaling is that high. Like Mugetsu Ichigo and Butterfly Aizen is supposed to be these 4D beings and like the strongest characters in the verse at the time were duking it out during the fake karakura town arc but them mfs didn't even destroy a town or anything close to it when fighting to their deaths. All Mugetsu Ichigo's slashes did was destroy some boulders than were shorter than some of the trees. I feel like people immediately assuming that they are stronger than a character who fights on earth normally just cause Bleach characters fight in the place of after life or in different dimensions and that makes them outscale a lot of other anime characters is just wrong.
Oooh ooooh i have a thing for this! Kinda. Basically in truth, large explosive power is relatively useless in single one on one fights. If you could cause an explosion over a LARGE area, it means you are wasting a lot of energy when most of it just destroys random nearby ground. More capable fighters would put all that volatile energy into a smaller more devastating area. Now this isnt to say explosions arent useful (it counters high speed kinda) but you should get the idea of "big area explosion would be stronger if compressed into small area". Additionally large devastating attacks are highly likely to destroy nearby stuff, so if someone wants to conquer or defend a city, blowing it up is a bit dumb. So for your thing, yeah two fighters COULD destroy the moon each, but they are both not really moon sized targets, so they concentrate it more.
@@callumprice1710 Alright, then why does moon level non explosive attacks that miss not fundamentally change the landscape as well. The energy has to go somewhere.
@@SilvrSavior they should alter the landscape. My previous comment is not about any actual specific story but more of "how they could fix it if the writers tried". Its also a bit of "actual logic applied to fantasy" instead of "this looks cool so we are doing it this way" which is how A LOT of things function in these type of stories.
For me the biggest problem is the use of physics to calculate feats. In particular relativity, Very often they destroy one of the postulates of the theory but continue to use it. And that's just choosing the physics and which part interests you or not. It's just a form of falacy.
When you mentioned this I immediately thought of the baker from Cookie clicker. You see Cookie clicker is a game about making more and more cookies so there's pretty much no fighting that happens in the game itself but because later on in the game the baker starts doing crazy things like channeling entire universes productivity to make cookies and doing other crazy things like making giant computer brains that can think cookies into existence. So in Power scaling The bakers considered to be a very powerful character despite the fact he has not gotten into a single fight because of his creation and transmutation feats. Which I think is really interesting.
Honestly it’s the same issue I have when some says a characters infinite speed when they move in a timeless space, mainly cause I know no author is thinking their character is moving that fast while they are just casually walking around.
More videos like this needs to be made because it's so exhuasting when trying to discuss AP vs hax and they just say the same thing over and over until you just stop responding
This video immediately made me think of the Baker from Cookie clicker who is a character that has never gotten into a fight and yet many people think they could beat Goku Because of their creation and transmutation feats.
Well I think bc creation requires energy and for u to have the ability to create something u must have the energy to create it . Its like a battle scenario if it's time to fight they can just transmute Goku into another substance. I mean as far we know Omni king from Dragonball has never gotten into a fight , he was even having trouble following the fights of the ppl in tournament of power , the Grand priest even had to create a device to help zeno follow the fights and zeno still had trouble following the fights yet, everyone in the db universe agrees that zeno is the strongest in the verse
One of the things that i don't like about jujutsu kaisen fans is that they will scale dagon to star level, when he was defeating by toji. Why? because his domain has a sun in it, which if youre using stupid logic, yeah that makes sense, but just because some guy makes a probably fake sun doesnt mean they are star level and can solo the entire verse.
Jjk scaling has been inconsistent basically since the beginning. If the blackflash amps were actually accurate to what they're stated to be, a wall level fodder can reach mountain level. The gap increases based on the level of your ap without blackflashes so a relative fighter landing a blackflash should just instantly kill their opponent. Then there's the cursed energy scaling to ap/dura due to ce reinforcement. Getting Dagon to star/island level is from following the established rules of jjk even though he doesn't have any feats showing that. Blame gege for that monstrosity.
completely agree, creation being equal to attack potency is beyond me, the fact that I could imagine a character right now with the ability to create a universe but would get one shot by jon jones and is unable to hurt a fly shows that creation equaling attack potency isnt an absolute truth across scaling which means that its up to a scaler to argue themselft0o argue why said creation feat would equal their potential attack potency which they either disingenously do with statements like energy equals potential attack potency or they dont argue it all and use it as if its an absolute truth
@@arinzechukwuonyekwuluje2218 Lets imagine a character that can create universe-sized constructs with a mere thought by channeling some energy from some kind infinite source that he has access to. The only limitation to his ability is that there is absolutely no way for his conjurations to interact with the existing world or vice versa. The character cant even get any feedback from the worlds/universes/whatevers he creates and can't even be sure if his power is actually real, but we as readers know that its real. What is his attack potency?
I consider the context when arguing the creation destruction feat. Like sar and tar in sds talk about creating their domain of the gods and imply that estrossa can break out and possibly destroy the realm because he’s close in power to them implying their creation and destruction scale. Or Mel and the dk individually being considered threats to the planet by existing and the dk has created his own planet. Since his power is implied to be that level and he has a comparable feat he is that strong. Kaguya is another one she wasn’t simply stated to create her realm it’s that she was able to destroy it with an expansive truth seeking orb which itself has denser chakra than something like a bijuu bomb so i definitely think that she could make a bijuu bomb similar in scale to a truth seeking orb I should clarify I’m not saying every hit is star or planet level for these characters just that their max attack potency could be in that range due to the statements given
I do think Kaguya attack is Star level but I don't see how her physicals scale to it. She almost drained all her & Shinobi Alliance chakra to create ETSO. She was said to use lots of chakra when switching dimensions so she shouldn't spam that jutsu recklessly. So why would she enchant her body with the same amount of chakra? Like she would be drained if her body is constantly enchanted to those levels. We even seen her get affected by her own gravity dimension and had to enchant her physicals to readjust her aim so it's very likely she wasn't consuming that much chakra as her other feats. She most likely matched her physicals to who she was fighting to conserve her chakra
This concept has always been hard for me to understand, sure a lot of characters can instant win as long as they can get the condition off, but I don’t agree with having every character in the verse be ‘as strong’ as such (imo Yugioh is one of them) characters beat mountains,blocks, cities but are scaled up because of others🤔). I agree that this concept doesn’t make any sense a lot of the time
I mean not all of their creations but... yes. Despite the fact they almost certainly created the saiyans, and therefore goku, goku is far stronger than any supreme kai.
Great video as always ngl i was getting confused at the beginning but i got the point when you give the dust attack example. I always thought it was weird how naruto fans claim kaguya is star or planetary and then naruto is too because he was able to clash with her but they dont apply the same logic to sakura who broke one of her horns.
😂sakura breaking kaguya's horn doesn't mean she is at kaguya's level. Their horn is literally the weakest part of their body. Guy broke only madara horn after tanking the first step of sekizo. Heck even sasuke cut off kinshiki horn with his sword but when sasuke tried to decapitate momoshiki with his sword, he couldn't because his sword could even scratch momoshiki's neck and this was before momoshiki ate kinshiki
@tale7955 Just for clarification, do you disagree with the premise of this video or are you just clowning on Surfborne? I feel like people are misinterpreting your comment.
I wouldn't really say creation is hax, per say. It's what it says on the tin; it's creation. Creating is fundamentally different from destruction. An artist, mechanic, and tailor must put effort and precision with their energy over time or even in an instant to create something special. But it's far, far more simpler to just destroy what they created. Normally, these scales use Newton's Laws (particularly the 3rd Law). But these chuds consistently misinterpret the sciences. Newton's 3rd Law goes for every ACTION has an opposite and equal REACTION. in this respect, I would categorize it into hax because almost no character that creates something crazy has no recoil/reaction thrown back onto them.
Another problem with rellying on newtons third law. Just ask anyone who tries using it in this context to name the full name of the law and what it explains.
I'm not a power scaler or debater but I do watch a lot of videos on power scaling and I've always had a problem with people equating creation feats to attack potency
Out of the verses you listed Naruto I've never been okay with the kaguya scaling so I agree with your argument if just confined to the naruto era but I think the boruto era does reach those levels Fairy tale Not sure Bleach gremmys feat would be good to use since he did it casually and his no where near the top dogs in power Black clover characters can and have casually destroyed glamour world multiple times and several other feats and statements to back the universal power for bc
Even and bigger examples like a skyscraper The construction teams usually need Dynamite to excavate the area first. So they could definitely take down a skyscraper
@@MAD-kn3rbyeah it’s more like saying that both a chainsaw and a weed whacker could destroy a tree if they were powered by the same battery Even if they draw from the same energy source they just do fundamentally different things that require different levels of strength
Pretty much the best way to counter the idea of Creation feats informing AP is to make it apparent that energy output by itself does not inform AP or Durability. Considering how real world material strength/toughness is measured, the true measure of AP and Durability ought to be based in how much stress/pressure (units in megapascals or joules/cubic centimeters) an attack can output, not just by its total energy output. How that energy is concentrated over an attacks volume is just as important in determining how hard a character can hit. With that in mind, how would creation feats inform AP when a) there’s no initial volume to apply that energy amount to, hence no means of finding how much pressure a creation feat can produce, or b) the volume of whatever is created or grown is so great that even if the theoretical energy amount is large by itself, when it’s concentrated over that great volume the actual pressure is relatively minuscule.
I mean I thought everyone didn't scale to their strongest attack with their regular attack potency because if that were true Chi Chi from Dragonball would be Moon level when she entered the 23rd budakai based on her power level being very similar to Master roshi from the previous from the first tournament in the series
Isnt that what kaioken is for? Just activating it should make the user be able to use all their energy, and then you can multiply the energy with × 1, 2, 3, 10, ect as long as you can control your ki. And then gohans mystic form which allows it to use his ssj strenght in base form and his beast form doing the same with ssj2 too
Tbh the creation feat depends on how they created it and even if it is hax sometimes u can scale to said hax ability such as Gremmy ‘s creation hax scale to him because in bleach your hax are dependent on the lvl of your spiritual energy and so I partly agree with u but in some instances like 7ds creation feats is tied to your magic out put and since in general creation is more impressive then destruction because u need more energy to create something than destroy it and if your attacks use the same energy type then u can easily say that one’s creation feat is = to there ap since ap is just the energy amount put in the attack
Glamour world is just a spell, and in black clover spells are created with the person's magic power so she obviously scales to it and since there are other charcharacters who are capable of destroying the dimension that proves its not something created via Hax.
I think of it like this if u have a power to create dimensions or universes it doesn't equate to u having the power to destroy a universe. However it does mean u can destroy the universe or dimension that u create. Think of it like this Adam from RoR who can move so fast time stops vs dio who has a power to stop time. If Adam moves at infinite speed before dio can use his ability then dio won't be able to move cause he isn't actually that fast. But if dio uses his ability to stop time Adam will be able to move cause he is that fast. Another example is yukio from bleach he is able to make dimensions and destroy them but he isn't able to destroy dimensions outside of the ones he creates. Bleach stated he is a "god" inside his world but outside the scopes of his powers he isn't like that. In most verses they make clear the real life component of something works differently to the energy based power of that said thing hence why in verses like naruto there can't absorb natural things like a river but they can with jutsu
Completely wrong on the naruto part. In the naruto series, its establishment that your chakra is tied to your life force/stamina. Thats why if you run out of chakra to the last drop, the character dies. Its why we see someone like naruto pull of the shadow clones technique that involved splitting your chakra equally while someone like kakashi cant becase of the difference in chakra. The more chakra you have the more your attack potency. The raikage was going to blow up the moon using a chakra cannon powered by the chakra of a 100 shinobi. Naruto is well known for his absurd amount of chakra and in shippuden he only had half of the nine tails. In the boruto series with his already large reserve and the complete nine tails, naruto was passively causing cracks in outer space just by the amount of chakra he has just by existing and this feat is confirmed by three otsutsuki in the series. And kaguya's space time creation are definitely not hax but her abilities. The fact that those space time exist even after her defeat is proof of that. Hagoromo even had a justu called the creation of all things and as the name implies, to create anything which he used in the creation of the tailed beast amd what naruto used to give kakashi a new eye. And if we go by boruto and the introduction of shibai and shinjustu which are likened to divine miracles that would mean every abilities of shibai will be termed as hax. Two of his abilities shown in elda and daemon are already overpowered as it is. Hax will be gremmy's case from bleach which after his death, all his creation he made through the visionary also disappeared.
“ The more chakra you have the more your attack potency.” Not really, no. At least from what I recall from Naruto, chakra amount by itself doesn’t inform AP, there’s also the matter of chakra control, how ever much chakra is put into any individual jutsu. One character can have a greater pool of chakra/stamina to draw from, but someone with less reserves but greater control can still make more potent jutsu. If chakra reserves did correlate linearly with AP, wouldn’t the AP of any character’s jutsu continually decrease through repeated use in a fight (ie Killer B’s lightning blade needing chakra to be sustained)?
Guldo from the ginyu force has to hold his breath to stop time and he's fat and diabetic so it's costing him a lot of energy to hold his breath. The short green one with 4 eyes
The thing with haxs is it’s very case by case since haxs all have their unique properties by virtue of being haxs. My main rule is treat energy systems like stamina it shows how long you can go but not how hard you punch.
exactly i agree with you like whenever naruto fans scale Naruto to uni+ by scaling hax of other charaters whom naruto scales above from and when I explain it to them that naruto cant do same they are like most brainrot fans and i just need to say three names montdor , uta and brulee and they start showing their double standard Nature
4:39 Kaguya’s move is literally an attack and with Dorothy the smallest you can move her down to is moon level because throwing a moon at someone an attack.
While this is a very well made video and your points actually work for shows like fairy tale, your Naruto points aren’t valid. You lack a fundamental understanding of how regular abilities work vs hax abilities. Both versions of abilities give the user access to powers they wouldn’t have normally, but unlike hax abilities where you don’t scale(like teleportation) regular abilities(like chidori) would scale. Kaguyas TSO would fall under the category of a regular ability
No. Not really. TSO are just an existence erasure hax in spherical form. It's clearly not just raw power at play here. We don't see them cause massive damage like a beast bomb would. And destroying a pocket universe you create doesn't make you universe level it just mean you have an hax. An universe level threat, wouldn't coveit the energy of an entire planet. Meaning something like the chakra fruit would be useless
This arguement makes no sense as kaguya was literally going to tank the same attack ...... I suggest you review naruto before making some garbage scale on it
Your point is just wrong onoki scales to his chakra hes chakra is the reason dust release exists he is a main contributer to his hax its different from One piece were characters lose no energy from doing the hax as onoki and Kaguya are actually losing energy it means they are supplying the energy its something rooted in part one chakra your chakra is converted into the ability if Kaguya didn't have a high amount of chakra the best thing she could make with her hax is a small stone but thats not the case
Yorozu doesn't support his claim. He did not give context on Mai's low cursed energy pool, construction being cursed energy inefficient, and her featlessness in cursed energy efficiency.
"Based on common sense and the context given to us in these series, it would be obvious creation feats do scale. BUT guys, do you REALLYYYY believe that." Yes, time to click off. JK, the expansive truthseeking orb isn't scaled based on it being able to destroy stars, its based on the fact that it is an object stated to have great density and she's about to expand it to where it can reach a certain size. People are calculating it based on the safe assumption that it would have to have hyper volume and therefore more than infinite mass since its going to engulf a 4th dimensionak structure that is stated to be bigger than the main naruto universe and is implied to be infinite by Sasuke. Shes not using a space-time hax with the truthseeking orb yet was still gonna erase a time-space, meaning through something unrelated to time-space hax she was going to destroy a time-space bigger than the normal universe. Its so blatantly universal+ no matter how you slice it. We also have Naruto causing tears in space at a low multiversal range by existing in Boruto, which is conveniently ignored by shitty scalers who like downplaying these verses. With the soul king, we have statements that Yhawch can destroy the 3 realms by himself and we see characters significantly affect these separate time spaces too. Blatant low multiversal feat. Fairy tail, the space between time is literally stated to be the concept of time and is something beyond comprehension, at worst its 5d. Especially considering Zeref who has infinite magic had ALL of his magic burned at once, not just the portions he was releasing. How can a character not only have infinite magic but then use up too much of it if he wasn't releasin a percent if it (which is still infinite) and how could natsu burn up ALL of the magic if he didn't have infinite AP? Lets just use more critical thinking here, the obvious intention is they simply are strong enough to create these things, they're not implying they're using more complex hax. Like when someone punhes and tears a hole in space-time we say they do it through power not through a space-time hax punch, but with creation there's ALWAYS been those few people who genuinely want to make it always a hax thing.
That's a lot of assumption. Implied to have great mass by whom? Infinite in size? How so? I'm sorry but not. You can't say Kaguya is universe+ based on it. More likely it is a case of haxx that rends space time or influence concepts. An actual universe+ entity would have no trouble blasting a planet. Yet none of her attacks reach that level, and the whole concept of the chakra fruit revolve around the idea that she doesn't have a chakra amount bigger than what the planet is and thus seek it's power. No matter how you slice it the power of a planet is not universe+. Furthermore that attacks only happens in a pocket dimention she have control over. There is clearly space time shinenigans happening here
@@smile-tl9in Its stated to be the combination of multiple natures, including earth and water which are extremely dense, and it's stated to be very condensed chakra which also has statements of mass multiple times. The infinite in size thing was just an implication, but Sasuke says he can't teleport out of Kaguyas dimension because he can only teleport finite distances. Turthseeking orbs have no space-time hax, we explicitly get told what they do and why they're haxed the way they are, they negate physical and spiritual energy, and can erase souls because souls are tied to spiritual energy. Outside of that we see it doesn't even erase regular matter such as natural objects and natural energy, let alone space/space-time. We even see space-time jutsu work on the truthseeking orbs from WEAKER characters. So somehow you're trying to imply it has space-time hax when it's directly shown to not counter Kamui from weaker sources. Simply put, Kaguya was going to destroy these time-spaces with truthseeking orbs which DON'T have space-time hax and the mass because of it having at least some finite density would mean it would have to have an imaginary mass beyond baseline infinity to become big enough to engulf 4d structures. Then you talk about having no trouble blowing up planets, meanwhile we have planetary and dwarf star calcs in Naruto. Literally the only reason Kaguya doesn't blow up a planet is because...they stopped her. She was going to destroy a dimension, and then they stopped her. It's like saying Vegeta wasn't planetary in Saiyan saga because Goku stopped him from doing it. It's just a dumb conclusion. And then you say the attacks only work in her pocket dimensions, which isn't true. It's stated she was going to erase the main Naruto universe too and her space-time ability is just her being able to transport chakra and entities holding chakra in them. You're making baseless assumptions that are contradicted by the story. Also you never explained how Naruto is able to create tears in his and Kaguyas time-spaces through simply having so much chakra, are you going to claim Kurama or Narutos chakra simply existing now has space-time hax? It's just energy in its basic form.
@@kakuzugoated873 the matter/energy produced by nature transformation have different properties than the real thing. The whole point of kirin is that true lightning bolts are faster than lightning release. Earth release can do thing like alter earth gravity. Which is an esoteric ability that can't be explained by just summoning earth. Kekkei genkai can be pretty damn esoteric. Water+Earth doesn't make wood in real life it makes mud. TSO work on the same princinple. It's not actual earth or water. More like a mix of the concepts associated with them You can have an infinite distance in a finite pocket universe. It can be looped on itself. So sasuke's power failing means nothing. Ah so not space-time hax but spiritual hax then. Erasing the spirits of thing doesn't imply infinite mass. That's a lot of assumption. First Kaguya only destroyed her own dimentions with the orb. It's more a product of her own pocket dimention haxx. She said she was going to destory his world. Her being able to destory Naruto's dimention makes no sense. None of the ototsuki showed any ability to destroy the universe. Also universal being don't coveit the power of single planets. Saying that every ototsuki have the ability to destory universe doesn't make sense. The goku excuse doesn't work either. In Dbz where the threats ARE planet levels you see planets blow up like firecrackers. Not so much in Naruto. In the first place the whole thing is based on stupid assumption scaling from tailed beasts who are at best nuke level Yes she can do a lot of damage with her orbs. Probably sterilize the world. That doesn't make her able to bust planets. Yes TSO do not affect dimentions...And case it point it didn't affect Naruto's dimention. No space warping, nothing. You assume that it's because TSO have some kind of 4D infinite level yield but the much more logical answer to why is that Kaguya can't destory the universe. Instead you're making the stupid assumption that TSO habe infinite yield Naruto is not planetary. The biggest damage tailed beast can do is basically throwing nukes with their beast bombs. That make them nuke level. 10 tails is at best one level above. But not much. You are the one making stupid baseless assumptions
@@smile-tl9in The difference properties is that it doesn't have physical or spiritual energy, literally everything else is the exact same. You don't think earth alters gravity? Gravity which ALL things with mass have?... Yea I'm done with you 😭
@@kakuzugoated873 Nope. Lightning style is slower than real lightning. It is the entire basis of kirin. Because it uses real lightning it's near instant. So fast even itachi wouldn't be able to dodge...If he didn't have susanoo. Earth's mass affect gravity LMAO. But earth style can increase the gravity without increasing mass. Yeah you're indeed done. Can't come back from demonstrating you didn't even read your own manga properly
Honestly Ive seen some of my fellow One Piece fans (and myself when trolling) make claims like the Mirror World, Book Worlds, or Air-Door Dimensions are all applicable for this similar level of creation feats. Obviously it’s not the same, but personally I dont think One Piece’s world needs a power that’s absurd on *that* level. It has its own type of absurdity lol
Fine, we can scale everyone who is stronger than Brule or Mont-d'Or to multidimensional because of the mirror dimensions and book worlds they make🤷🏻♀️
I would love to see someone scaling real living people using some of these bad methods and purposely scaling a real person as planetary.
That may be an interesting video idea. I will consider it
@@Steinixosthis video is pretty good
@@SteinixosI think this video is pretty good but there are some things I need to say if a character have no limit to their power system then it has been stated in the manga in Fairy Tail as much as I don't like Fairy Tail just to put that out there what turns out this video is pretty okay pretty good I suppose
An arsonist can start a forest fire so that means they're forest level. Their durability should scale to their AP which means arsonists can survive an explosion that can destroy a forest. Also, the humans who created nukes can one-shot cities with their fists.
A dung beetle can pull over 1000 times their own weight and any average human scales above that, meaning they should be able to hold hundereds if not thousands of tons.
I should point out that with the Soul King, it isn't *just* creation. The Soul King being alive and exerting his energy passively is what keeps Bleach's cosmology from collapsing in on itself.
And yes, it is a cosmology. Each world is separated dimensionally by the Garganta and each world has its own night sky.
Some Lovecraft type shit always going on in bleach
Literally the main stakes of the last arc of Bleach is protecting the Soul King so the world doesn’t cease to exist.
@@THED3ADLY7cease to exist (as it is)
The implication was that all the realms would just be mashed together, and you’d have a really messed up amalgamation world that wouldn’t necessarily function “properly”
I guess i just find the display kinda boring since Bleach never shows this kinda stuff in its "true scale". The biggest on screen thing we see in TYBW was like, the schutzstaffel doing some attack that damages like a quarter of warwelt or something, but even then it still looked like Mugetsu was bigger. Like yea i guess Yhwach affected things in three universes, but even then we never see it in a truly "up to scale" perspective.
It's also why i don't particularly appreciate stuff like Boruto either (power scaling wise), because we never actually SEE feats that match their scale, it's just some "X is stronger than Y therefore Z" or "It was stated in CFYOW" type stuff that makes it so boring to look at spectacle wise. This is supposed to be some big deal three universes smashing together shi but literally what i see on screen just looks like concrete floating in three different places (and it's always karakura town in the living world for some reason. London exists too yk)
I understand the implications of the powers at play, but i just don't FEEL it the way power scaling wants me to. Makes me appreciate stuff like Gurren Laggan or Dragon Ball since it really does show scale like it means it.
@@unioneye1087 I understand you r frustrations but imo bleach does the on another scale thing better than most shonen but boruto is just so shit at power display and fights that I fully believe that they could fight in a parking lot and the only damage that would occur is a crack in the ground that's how bad boruto is visually
Any attack potency greater than mountain level becomes hard to mentally imagine. Once there is an attack level capable of blowing up a moon, then fighting on the ground becomes difficult to put into a story. Like why does the power clash between 2 entities that can destroy a moon not just annihilate the entire landscape when they seriously try to kill each other.
Which is why to this day I don't get how Bleach scaling is that high. Like Mugetsu Ichigo and Butterfly Aizen is supposed to be these 4D beings and like the strongest characters in the verse at the time were duking it out during the fake karakura town arc but them mfs didn't even destroy a town or anything close to it when fighting to their deaths. All Mugetsu Ichigo's slashes did was destroy some boulders than were shorter than some of the trees.
I feel like people immediately assuming that they are stronger than a character who fights on earth normally just cause Bleach characters fight in the place of after life or in different dimensions and that makes them outscale a lot of other anime characters is just wrong.
@@rand12389 Ulquiorra threw a lance that exploded with the force of a nuclear bomb. To say that Mugetsu Ichigo is weaker than that is asinine.
Oooh ooooh i have a thing for this! Kinda. Basically in truth, large explosive power is relatively useless in single one on one fights. If you could cause an explosion over a LARGE area, it means you are wasting a lot of energy when most of it just destroys random nearby ground. More capable fighters would put all that volatile energy into a smaller more devastating area. Now this isnt to say explosions arent useful (it counters high speed kinda) but you should get the idea of "big area explosion would be stronger if compressed into small area".
Additionally large devastating attacks are highly likely to destroy nearby stuff, so if someone wants to conquer or defend a city, blowing it up is a bit dumb.
So for your thing, yeah two fighters COULD destroy the moon each, but they are both not really moon sized targets, so they concentrate it more.
@@callumprice1710 Alright, then why does moon level non explosive attacks that miss not fundamentally change the landscape as well. The energy has to go somewhere.
@@SilvrSavior they should alter the landscape. My previous comment is not about any actual specific story but more of "how they could fix it if the writers tried".
Its also a bit of "actual logic applied to fantasy" instead of "this looks cool so we are doing it this way" which is how A LOT of things function in these type of stories.
For me the biggest problem is the use of physics to calculate feats. In particular relativity, Very often they destroy one of the postulates of the theory but continue to use it. And that's just choosing the physics and which part interests you or not. It's just a form of falacy.
Agreed. VS Battlers love to cherrypick physics so much.
When you mentioned this I immediately thought of the baker from Cookie clicker. You see Cookie clicker is a game about making more and more cookies so there's pretty much no fighting that happens in the game itself but because later on in the game the baker starts doing crazy things like channeling entire universes productivity to make cookies and doing other crazy things like making giant computer brains that can think cookies into existence. So in Power scaling The bakers considered to be a very powerful character despite the fact he has not gotten into a single fight because of his creation and transmutation feats. Which I think is really interesting.
I had no idea people power scaled cookie clicker.
@@Mariama_Kane yeah they definitely do and it's really funny how many powerful characters the Baker from Cookie clicker beats.
I would say that it gets to eldritch level shit in bleach it becomes less about destruction and more about how complex can something become
Honestly it’s the same issue I have when some says a characters infinite speed when they move in a timeless space, mainly cause I know no author is thinking their character is moving that fast while they are just casually walking around.
More videos like this needs to be made because it's so exhuasting when trying to discuss AP vs hax and they just say the same thing over and over until you just stop responding
This video immediately made me think of the Baker from Cookie clicker who is a character that has never gotten into a fight and yet many people think they could beat Goku Because of their creation and transmutation feats.
Well I think bc creation requires energy and for u to have the ability to create something u must have the energy to create it . Its like a battle scenario if it's time to fight they can just transmute Goku into another substance. I mean as far we know Omni king from Dragonball has never gotten into a fight , he was even having trouble following the fights of the ppl in tournament of power , the Grand priest even had to create a device to help zeno follow the fights and zeno still had trouble following the fights yet, everyone in the db universe agrees that zeno is the strongest in the verse
@@arinzechukwuonyekwuluje2218hax
One of the things that i don't like about jujutsu kaisen fans is that they will scale dagon to star level, when he was defeating by toji. Why? because his domain has a sun in it, which if youre using stupid logic, yeah that makes sense, but just because some guy makes a probably fake sun doesnt mean they are star level and can solo the entire verse.
Jjk scaling has been inconsistent basically since the beginning. If the blackflash amps were actually accurate to what they're stated to be, a wall level fodder can reach mountain level. The gap increases based on the level of your ap without blackflashes so a relative fighter landing a blackflash should just instantly kill their opponent. Then there's the cursed energy scaling to ap/dura due to ce reinforcement. Getting Dagon to star/island level is from following the established rules of jjk even though he doesn't have any feats showing that. Blame gege for that monstrosity.
completely agree, creation being equal to attack potency is beyond me, the fact that I could imagine a character right now with the ability to create a universe but would get one shot by jon jones and is unable to hurt a fly shows that creation equaling attack potency isnt an absolute truth across scaling which means that its up to a scaler to argue themselft0o argue why said creation feat would equal their potential attack potency which they either disingenously do with statements like energy equals potential attack potency or they dont argue it all and use it as if its an absolute truth
I mean the character could create a universe sized cube and kill u both
@@arinzechukwuonyekwuluje2218that is hax, not ap
@@arinzechukwuonyekwuluje2218
Lets imagine a character that can create universe-sized constructs with a mere thought by channeling some energy from some kind infinite source that he has access to. The only limitation to his ability is that there is absolutely no way for his conjurations to interact with the existing world or vice versa. The character cant even get any feedback from the worlds/universes/whatevers he creates and can't even be sure if his power is actually real, but we as readers know that its real.
What is his attack potency?
@@rokoyomi depends on context the thing that was created is a higher dimensional universe or is it an illusion
I consider the context when arguing the creation destruction feat.
Like sar and tar in sds talk about creating their domain of the gods and imply that estrossa can break out and possibly destroy the realm because he’s close in power to them implying their creation and destruction scale.
Or Mel and the dk individually being considered threats to the planet by existing and the dk has created his own planet. Since his power is implied to be that level and he has a comparable feat he is that strong.
Kaguya is another one she wasn’t simply stated to create her realm it’s that she was able to destroy it with an expansive truth seeking orb which itself has denser chakra than something like a bijuu bomb so i definitely think that she could make a bijuu bomb similar in scale to a truth seeking orb
I should clarify I’m not saying every hit is star or planet level for these characters just that their max attack potency could be in that range due to the statements given
I do think Kaguya attack is Star level but I don't see how her physicals scale to it. She almost drained all her & Shinobi Alliance chakra to create ETSO. She was said to use lots of chakra when switching dimensions so she shouldn't spam that jutsu recklessly. So why would she enchant her body with the same amount of chakra? Like she would be drained if her body is constantly enchanted to those levels. We even seen her get affected by her own gravity dimension and had to enchant her physicals to readjust her aim so it's very likely she wasn't consuming that much chakra as her other feats. She most likely matched her physicals to who she was fighting to conserve her chakra
This concept has always been hard for me to understand, sure a lot of characters can instant win as long as they can get the condition off, but I don’t agree with having every character in the verse be ‘as strong’ as such (imo Yugioh is one of them) characters beat mountains,blocks, cities but are scaled up because of others🤔). I agree that this concept doesn’t make any sense a lot of the time
Yugioh is always funny you’ll have a monster card that can rip apart dimensions but oh no a mirror force.
@@liquid47 😂 Fr, Mirror force gotta be the ultimate hax defense
You are the only powerscaling youtuber that actually makes sense
So that means supreme Kai’s scale way lower than their creations
I mean not all of their creations but... yes. Despite the fact they almost certainly created the saiyans, and therefore goku, goku is far stronger than any supreme kai.
Great video as always ngl i was getting confused at the beginning but i got the point when you give the dust attack example. I always thought it was weird how naruto fans claim kaguya is star or planetary and then naruto is too because he was able to clash with her but they dont apply the same logic to sakura who broke one of her horns.
😂sakura breaking kaguya's horn doesn't mean she is at kaguya's level. Their horn is literally the weakest part of their body. Guy broke only madara horn after tanking the first step of sekizo. Heck even sasuke cut off kinshiki horn with his sword but when sasuke tried to decapitate momoshiki with his sword, he couldn't because his sword could even scratch momoshiki's neck and this was before momoshiki ate kinshiki
I can't wait for Surfborne to make a live that's 75% interrupting the video to say "You're wrong" laugh and add nothing to the conversation.
He gave a counterpoint to every argument in the video. This just tells me you didn't actually watch it.
The term "I cant wait for" also does that as its reffering to something that hasnt happened yet@@NonAryanDuck
@@NonAryanDuckExcept he literally didn't? Lmao???
@@turkeybeef6269 Except he literally did?Bro's living in the Twilight Zone lmfao
@tale7955 Just for clarification, do you disagree with the premise of this video or are you just clowning on Surfborne? I feel like people are misinterpreting your comment.
If I see another person scaling Dagon to continental because his domain has "an entire ocean" in it I am going to have a bath with a live toaster.
I wouldn't really say creation is hax, per say. It's what it says on the tin; it's creation. Creating is fundamentally different from destruction. An artist, mechanic, and tailor must put effort and precision with their energy over time or even in an instant to create something special. But it's far, far more simpler to just destroy what they created. Normally, these scales use Newton's Laws (particularly the 3rd Law).
But these chuds consistently misinterpret the sciences. Newton's 3rd Law goes for every ACTION has an opposite and equal REACTION. in this respect, I would categorize it into hax because almost no character that creates something crazy has no recoil/reaction thrown back onto them.
@@OurDarkGoldenHero kind of bad comparison
@@dbt4869 elaborate
Another problem with rellying on newtons third law. Just ask anyone who tries using it in this context to name the full name of the law and what it explains.
I just ant to say something to the black clover dorothy part she said that she scales to her dimension and that grimoires scales to the owners
I'm not a power scaler or debater but I do watch a lot of videos on power scaling and I've always had a problem with people equating creation feats to attack potency
I swear death battle needs to hire you
*Random thought:* There needs to be more series about a maincharacter that has immortality, regeneration, or healing powers.
Out of the verses you listed
Naruto
I've never been okay with the kaguya scaling so I agree with your argument if just confined to the naruto era but I think the boruto era does reach those levels
Fairy tale
Not sure
Bleach
gremmys feat would be good to use since he did it casually and his no where near the top dogs in power
Black clover
characters can and have casually destroyed glamour world multiple times and several other feats and statements to back the universal power for bc
its like saying a mechanic that can make a car from the ground up is as strong as the car or can destroy a car
The mechanic could definitely destroy a car in the same amount of time it took to make it. With the tools that he used to make it
Even and bigger examples like a skyscraper The construction teams usually need Dynamite to excavate the area first. So they could definitely take down a skyscraper
the mechanic doesn’t make the car with his energy source lmao these characters are making it with the energy sources
@@MAD-kn3rbyeah it’s more like saying that both a chainsaw and a weed whacker could destroy a tree if they were powered by the same battery
Even if they draw from the same energy source they just do fundamentally different things that require different levels of strength
@@jingusflorpus4274 the difference is the battery isn’t what that’s cutting the tree while the energy is both creating and destroying said things
Ah yes, where is my multiversal Mont-d'Or.
Pretty much the best way to counter the idea of Creation feats informing AP is to make it apparent that energy output by itself does not inform AP or Durability.
Considering how real world material strength/toughness is measured, the true measure of AP and Durability ought to be based in how much stress/pressure (units in megapascals or joules/cubic centimeters) an attack can output, not just by its total energy output. How that energy is concentrated over an attacks volume is just as important in determining how hard a character can hit.
With that in mind, how would creation feats inform AP when a) there’s no initial volume to apply that energy amount to, hence no means of finding how much pressure a creation feat can produce, or b) the volume of whatever is created or grown is so great that even if the theoretical energy amount is large by itself, when it’s concentrated over that great volume the actual pressure is relatively minuscule.
I mean I thought everyone didn't scale to their strongest attack with their regular attack potency because if that were true Chi Chi from Dragonball would be Moon level when she entered the 23rd budakai based on her power level being very similar to Master roshi from the previous from the first tournament in the series
Isnt that what kaioken is for?
Just activating it should make the user be able to use all their energy, and then you can multiply the energy with × 1, 2, 3, 10, ect as long as you can control your ki.
And then gohans mystic form which allows it to use his ssj strenght in base form and his beast form doing the same with ssj2 too
I'm with you bc otherwise 13 year old Obito is universal.
Not really. Obito doesn't create the Kamui dimension. It accompanies his mangekyo
Obito doesn't create the kamui dimension it already existed
That's a great way to explain why can't use other abilities like hax shouldn't be used to upscale other moves and the character
I feel like you have read my mind I have been saying this for years.
I do agree with hax being a good placement for some creation powers like kaguya
Tbh the creation feat depends on how they created it and even if it is hax sometimes u can scale to said hax ability such as Gremmy ‘s creation hax scale to him because in bleach your hax are dependent on the lvl of your spiritual energy and so I partly agree with u but in some instances like 7ds creation feats is tied to your magic out put and since in general creation is more impressive then destruction because u need more energy to create something than destroy it and if your attacks use the same energy type then u can easily say that one’s creation feat is = to there ap since ap is just the energy amount put in the attack
Our glorious king is back
I clap my hands to you Styn, this was a great video
I think of it like-if I am able to ignite a match and blow up a propane tank that does not mean I have the same strength as a propane explosion
Glamour world is just a spell, and in black clover spells are created with the person's magic power so she obviously scales to it and since there are other charcharacters who are capable of destroying the dimension that proves its not something created via Hax.
I think of it like this if u have a power to create dimensions or universes it doesn't equate to u having the power to destroy a universe. However it does mean u can destroy the universe or dimension that u create.
Think of it like this Adam from RoR who can move so fast time stops vs dio who has a power to stop time. If Adam moves at infinite speed before dio can use his ability then dio won't be able to move cause he isn't actually that fast. But if dio uses his ability to stop time Adam will be able to move cause he is that fast.
Another example is yukio from bleach he is able to make dimensions and destroy them but he isn't able to destroy dimensions outside of the ones he creates. Bleach stated he is a "god" inside his world but outside the scopes of his powers he isn't like that.
In most verses they make clear the real life component of something works differently to the energy based power of that said thing hence why in verses like naruto there can't absorb natural things like a river but they can with jutsu
Completely wrong on the naruto part. In the naruto series, its establishment that your chakra is tied to your life force/stamina. Thats why if you run out of chakra to the last drop, the character dies. Its why we see someone like naruto pull of the shadow clones technique that involved splitting your chakra equally while someone like kakashi cant becase of the difference in chakra. The more chakra you have the more your attack potency. The raikage was going to blow up the moon using a chakra cannon powered by the chakra of a 100 shinobi. Naruto is well known for his absurd amount of chakra and in shippuden he only had half of the nine tails. In the boruto series with his already large reserve and the complete nine tails, naruto was passively causing cracks in outer space just by the amount of chakra he has just by existing and this feat is confirmed by three otsutsuki in the series.
And kaguya's space time creation are definitely not hax but her abilities. The fact that those space time exist even after her defeat is proof of that. Hagoromo even had a justu called the creation of all things and as the name implies, to create anything which he used in the creation of the tailed beast amd what naruto used to give kakashi a new eye. And if we go by boruto and the introduction of shibai and shinjustu which are likened to divine miracles that would mean every abilities of shibai will be termed as hax. Two of his abilities shown in elda and daemon are already overpowered as it is.
Hax will be gremmy's case from bleach which after his death, all his creation he made through the visionary also disappeared.
“ The more chakra you have the more your attack potency.”
Not really, no.
At least from what I recall from Naruto, chakra amount by itself doesn’t inform AP, there’s also the matter of chakra control, how ever much chakra is put into any individual jutsu.
One character can have a greater pool of chakra/stamina to draw from, but someone with less reserves but greater control can still make more potent jutsu.
If chakra reserves did correlate linearly with AP, wouldn’t the AP of any character’s jutsu continually decrease through repeated use in a fight (ie Killer B’s lightning blade needing chakra to be sustained)?
*SK, kaguya, Zeref, Madara* Scale to their attacks
*Gremmy, Dorothy*
Shouldn't scale
If a person's hax is directly dependent on how much energy they pour into it, then it should sale to their AP.
Guldo from the ginyu force has to hold his breath to stop time and he's fat and diabetic so it's costing him a lot of energy to hold his breath.
The short green one with 4 eyes
The thing with haxs is it’s very case by case since haxs all have their unique properties by virtue of being haxs.
My main rule is treat energy systems like stamina it shows how long you can go but not how hard you punch.
exactly i agree with you
like whenever naruto fans scale Naruto to uni+ by scaling hax of other charaters whom naruto scales above from
and when I explain it to them that naruto cant do same they are like most brainrot fans and i just need to say three names
montdor , uta and brulee
and they start showing their double standard Nature
Best video I’ve ever seen
I think of it like this-if I am able to ignite a match and blow up a propane tank that does not mean I have the same strength as a propane explosion
8:40 this is more so arguing different attacks have different properties rather than your original point of not using them for scaling.
4:39 Kaguya’s move is literally an attack and with Dorothy the smallest you can move her down to is moon level because throwing a moon at someone an attack.
oh shit stein dropped? 🙏🏿🙏🏿🙏🏿
i agree creation can't equal AP off rip unless you actually scale to it via feats outside of that its a waste of time.
Why is the soul king here ? He split the realms
Kaguya coyld just create a sun amd throw it at her enemies
While this is a very well made video and your points actually work for shows like fairy tale, your Naruto points aren’t valid. You lack a fundamental understanding of how regular abilities work vs hax abilities. Both versions of abilities give the user access to powers they wouldn’t have normally, but unlike hax abilities where you don’t scale(like teleportation) regular abilities(like chidori) would scale. Kaguyas TSO would fall under the category of a regular ability
No. Not really. TSO are just an existence erasure hax in spherical form.
It's clearly not just raw power at play here. We don't see them cause massive damage like a beast bomb would. And destroying a pocket universe you create doesn't make you universe level it just mean you have an hax.
An universe level threat, wouldn't coveit the energy of an entire planet. Meaning something like the chakra fruit would be useless
Great video!
Great video tho very much enjoyed it
This arguement makes no sense as kaguya was literally going to tank the same attack ...... I suggest you review naruto before making some garbage scale on it
I just think like this if they can destroy their creation then that ap while if they can't then it's hax
Your point is just wrong onoki scales to his chakra hes chakra is the reason dust release exists he is a main contributer to his hax its different from One piece were characters lose no energy from doing the hax as onoki and Kaguya are actually losing energy it means they are supplying the energy its something rooted in part one chakra your chakra is converted into the ability if Kaguya didn't have a high amount of chakra the best thing she could make with her hax is a small stone but thats not the case
What happened to your admirals video?
Gonna make some of my older videos Patreon exclusives. That one is probably one of them
@@Steinixos exclusive?
Kaguya would still scale to those star levels of feats due to other things shown in the Naruto universe but that’s a whole difference discussion.
Why you didn't talk about yorozu
perfect sphere
Yorozu doesn't support his claim. He did not give context on Mai's low cursed energy pool, construction being cursed energy inefficient, and her featlessness in cursed energy efficiency.
Just because you can do A with a ton of energy doesn’t mean you can do B with a ton of energy.
Ehh I don’t like watching magic anime anymore
????
"Based on common sense and the context given to us in these series, it would be obvious creation feats do scale. BUT guys, do you REALLYYYY believe that." Yes, time to click off.
JK, the expansive truthseeking orb isn't scaled based on it being able to destroy stars, its based on the fact that it is an object stated to have great density and she's about to expand it to where it can reach a certain size. People are calculating it based on the safe assumption that it would have to have hyper volume and therefore more than infinite mass since its going to engulf a 4th dimensionak structure that is stated to be bigger than the main naruto universe and is implied to be infinite by Sasuke. Shes not using a space-time hax with the truthseeking orb yet was still gonna erase a time-space, meaning through something unrelated to time-space hax she was going to destroy a time-space bigger than the normal universe. Its so blatantly universal+ no matter how you slice it. We also have Naruto causing tears in space at a low multiversal range by existing in Boruto, which is conveniently ignored by shitty scalers who like downplaying these verses.
With the soul king, we have statements that Yhawch can destroy the 3 realms by himself and we see characters significantly affect these separate time spaces too. Blatant low multiversal feat.
Fairy tail, the space between time is literally stated to be the concept of time and is something beyond comprehension, at worst its 5d. Especially considering Zeref who has infinite magic had ALL of his magic burned at once, not just the portions he was releasing. How can a character not only have infinite magic but then use up too much of it if he wasn't releasin a percent if it (which is still infinite) and how could natsu burn up ALL of the magic if he didn't have infinite AP?
Lets just use more critical thinking here, the obvious intention is they simply are strong enough to create these things, they're not implying they're using more complex hax. Like when someone punhes and tears a hole in space-time we say they do it through power not through a space-time hax punch, but with creation there's ALWAYS been those few people who genuinely want to make it always a hax thing.
That's a lot of assumption. Implied to have great mass by whom?
Infinite in size? How so?
I'm sorry but not. You can't say Kaguya is universe+ based on it. More likely it is a case of haxx that rends space time or influence concepts.
An actual universe+ entity would have no trouble blasting a planet. Yet none of her attacks reach that level, and the whole concept of the chakra fruit revolve around the idea that she doesn't have a chakra amount bigger than what the planet is and thus seek it's power.
No matter how you slice it the power of a planet is not universe+.
Furthermore that attacks only happens in a pocket dimention she have control over. There is clearly space time shinenigans happening here
@@smile-tl9in Its stated to be the combination of multiple natures, including earth and water which are extremely dense, and it's stated to be very condensed chakra which also has statements of mass multiple times.
The infinite in size thing was just an implication, but Sasuke says he can't teleport out of Kaguyas dimension because he can only teleport finite distances.
Turthseeking orbs have no space-time hax, we explicitly get told what they do and why they're haxed the way they are, they negate physical and spiritual energy, and can erase souls because souls are tied to spiritual energy. Outside of that we see it doesn't even erase regular matter such as natural objects and natural energy, let alone space/space-time. We even see space-time jutsu work on the truthseeking orbs from WEAKER characters. So somehow you're trying to imply it has space-time hax when it's directly shown to not counter Kamui from weaker sources.
Simply put, Kaguya was going to destroy these time-spaces with truthseeking orbs which DON'T have space-time hax and the mass because of it having at least some finite density would mean it would have to have an imaginary mass beyond baseline infinity to become big enough to engulf 4d structures.
Then you talk about having no trouble blowing up planets, meanwhile we have planetary and dwarf star calcs in Naruto. Literally the only reason Kaguya doesn't blow up a planet is because...they stopped her. She was going to destroy a dimension, and then they stopped her. It's like saying Vegeta wasn't planetary in Saiyan saga because Goku stopped him from doing it. It's just a dumb conclusion.
And then you say the attacks only work in her pocket dimensions, which isn't true. It's stated she was going to erase the main Naruto universe too and her space-time ability is just her being able to transport chakra and entities holding chakra in them. You're making baseless assumptions that are contradicted by the story.
Also you never explained how Naruto is able to create tears in his and Kaguyas time-spaces through simply having so much chakra, are you going to claim Kurama or Narutos chakra simply existing now has space-time hax? It's just energy in its basic form.
@@kakuzugoated873 the matter/energy produced by nature transformation have different properties than the real thing. The whole point of kirin is that true lightning bolts are faster than lightning release.
Earth release can do thing like alter earth gravity. Which is an esoteric ability that can't be explained by just summoning earth.
Kekkei genkai can be pretty damn esoteric. Water+Earth doesn't make wood in real life it makes mud.
TSO work on the same princinple. It's not actual earth or water. More like a mix of the concepts associated with them
You can have an infinite distance in a finite pocket universe. It can be looped on itself. So sasuke's power failing means nothing.
Ah so not space-time hax but spiritual hax then. Erasing the spirits of thing doesn't imply infinite mass.
That's a lot of assumption. First Kaguya only destroyed her own dimentions with the orb. It's more a product of her own pocket dimention haxx.
She said she was going to destory his world. Her being able to destory Naruto's dimention makes no sense. None of the ototsuki showed any ability to destroy the universe. Also universal being don't coveit the power of single planets. Saying that every ototsuki have the ability to destory universe doesn't make sense. The goku excuse doesn't work either. In Dbz where the threats ARE planet levels you see planets blow up like firecrackers. Not so much in Naruto.
In the first place the whole thing is based on stupid assumption scaling from tailed beasts who are at best nuke level
Yes she can do a lot of damage with her orbs. Probably sterilize the world. That doesn't make her able to bust planets.
Yes TSO do not affect dimentions...And case it point it didn't affect Naruto's dimention. No space warping, nothing. You assume that it's because TSO have some kind of 4D infinite level yield but the much more logical answer to why is that Kaguya can't destory the universe. Instead you're making the stupid assumption that TSO habe infinite yield
Naruto is not planetary. The biggest damage tailed beast can do is basically throwing nukes with their beast bombs. That make them nuke level.
10 tails is at best one level above. But not much.
You are the one making stupid baseless assumptions
@@smile-tl9in The difference properties is that it doesn't have physical or spiritual energy, literally everything else is the exact same.
You don't think earth alters gravity? Gravity which ALL things with mass have?... Yea I'm done with you 😭
@@kakuzugoated873
Nope. Lightning style is slower than real lightning. It is the entire basis of kirin. Because it uses real lightning it's near instant. So fast even itachi wouldn't be able to dodge...If he didn't have susanoo.
Earth's mass affect gravity LMAO. But earth style can increase the gravity without increasing mass.
Yeah you're indeed done. Can't come back from demonstrating you didn't even read your own manga properly
Lmao this sounds blasphemous I can tell you had a war you couldn't win against Naruto community bruh half the vid
Fairy Tail got you on the ropes too
One piece fans upset their verse can’t pull off these feats
Honestly Ive seen some of my fellow One Piece fans (and myself when trolling) make claims like the Mirror World, Book Worlds, or Air-Door Dimensions are all applicable for this similar level of creation feats.
Obviously it’s not the same, but personally I dont think One Piece’s world needs a power that’s absurd on *that* level. It has its own type of absurdity lol
*Toon Force Luffy arguments say wha-?*
Fine, we can scale everyone who is stronger than Brule or Mont-d'Or to multidimensional because of the mirror dimensions and book worlds they make🤷🏻♀️
*Uta and Tot Musika enter the chat*
Luffy have toon force which is one of the most power Haxx ever put to paper. He doesn't need to blow up planets to be powerful