Hears a tip for you... when framing your corners for the shower leave a small gap between the corner boards use blocks to stiffen the corners but leave gap open to the height of the pan liner. or on existing showers cut a slot where the corner boards meet creating a gap. Then when installing your membrane instead of folding your corners you tuck them in the gap and pull behind. This way you don’t get a bulky corner.
Thanks for your videos! There has been water leaking in my ceiling from undeer the rshower, (was remodeled about 5-6 years ago and I purchased the house almost 3 years ago). So I checked for pipes leaking first; then I cut a hole in the ceiling and ran the shower. Water coming from the seams in the plywood. I removed the tile on the pan and about a foot on the walls all around and then the 1.5" concrete to show that the liner had screws at the height of the concrete and not clearing the 5-7 inches you show here. Gonna keep learning how to be a home owner so thanks for the video. Bad things have happened in threes in the past month and a half; AC fan motor went out, hot water slab leak and now a bad install shower liner.
Thanks for the great video. Helped me a lot in putting together my shower. Also, don't listen to all the "professionals" with negative comments when none of them are willing to show us on camera. You're great!
I've been doing this many years (started in the trades at 18 and I'm 52 now) I've been watching some videos cause I want to start making my own now so I'm checking out diff films. I've seen it all happen thru the years and I will say that this is definitely one of the better & more thorough how-to videos I've seen. There's just a cpl minor things I do differently but for the most part this is how I do it too. Great job Bob!
White epoxy paint can be spray painted to your drain frame so its not black..I've worked 40 yrs in Local 18 Tile & Terrazzo in California and I install all in Mud.. (Old School) But I have to say thank god you are showing the public how to install Tile and sub surfaces the right way !
Excellent video! I have watched it numerous times and studied every move you made and listened intently. I install my liner tomorrow. I have applied Aquadefense at least 3 times and now my liner is next. Worried about the corners but will watch this again as I work. Thank you again!!!!
I have been wanting to change out my shower for a while now, it's a fiberglass one piece unit, from mid 90's. After watching your video, a few times of course, I decided to try it. So I ripped out the old one and now working on the shower pan. I had watched other video's and they all did the cement layer underneath and that made no sense to me either, so I was so happy after your video that you said there is no need for this. If water gets thru, it will no travel if everything is tight under there anyway. So thank you, you saved me a step too. I'm just on the wood part now around the bottom and then will put the rubber pan down. I'm going to watch your video's, each step, to get me thru this. Lucky for me, it's just the shower stall I'm doing and not the whole bathroom. The shower stall is 3 ft by 3 ft. So thank you for your videos and for the record, I don't think you talk to much, I need the extra advice throughout, so it certainly has been helping me.
Good for you, just take it nice and easy and do a lot of research, you'll be okay.... Here is an extended video about 30 minutes long that shows the whole process ua-cam.com/video/5Gp-PgGYi64/v-deo.html
@@StarrTile thank you so much!! That is exactly what I am working with in my home. I so appreciate you responding so quickly. I will keep on trucking with my shower remodel..
If you're trying to do anything near a shower, do yourself a favor and only watch this guy's videos. Don't just surf youtube clicking on the shortest length/most attractive video ( Just change the playback speed to 1.5x). They may be lengthy but so is the invoice for hiring a true professional after your attempt failed. If you are a "do it once do it right" person, then follow this man's process. Every honest GC/builder/tile guy needs to implement your techniques. Thank you for these videos Bob
Good job in spending your own time on this video. Pre pans are mandatory in Mpls and other surrounding suburbs. Any low spot in your plywood floor will collect water which never will reach the drain and never dry out with daily showers causing mold to leach up into the grout .
Awesome detailed video and tutorial! I have not found one this good that illustrates and explains the why's and what not's of the job! Off to part 2!! Thank you!
Man I see people come into videos and say well u should have done this and this and this and blah blah blah . But when you watch there videos IF they have vids they do the same thing .. anyway man I appreciate u taking the time out of your life to stop and film for ppl who are diyers in need of some tips . I personally am in the construction trade but this is a great way to keep up with the positive community of ppl helping others out and sharing techniques , keep up the good work brother
@@StarrTile so I am. Having an issue . Could use some insight. So I have my plumbing all roughed in and I installed the ahower mixer , hooked it all up and did a leak test for the pex to make sure all of my connections are good. However water shoots out of the shower head even when I have the knob in off pos. Am I missing a step or is this more likely a faulty cartridge in new fixture
@@mattjudy4037 I don't donate on UA-cam Matt , when I donate it's normally to charity for people who have been through natural disasters or like a charity for children born with diseases through no fault of their own you know stuff like that . I'm hoping to start a UA-cam channel soon and all the advice people could ever want will be free of charge . Even now , when I look through people's comments on stuff like this , if I see someone who has asked a question and haven't been answered I'll answer 99% of the time , unless I don't know the answer, drives me nuts seeing people asking for money on these channels . If someone wants to donate that's their own decision , I'm not going to beg for it when I really do not need it . Like I said there are better things to donate to .. like people in need
@@Carpenters_Canvas You sound like a greedy nut and have no appreciation of the labor you are using. No matter what you are here looking for insights but considering that people who take time and recourses to create this info for you, they are just like entertaining themselves. Go work for free, then your words will mean anything but not when you act like a vulture looking for something to steal.
Dude. Preslope! Tile is not impervious to water penetration. Water WILL go thru and sit on that liner. With no preslope the water will not wick down the drain. You’re building a sump
StarrTile Well. Call me old fashioned. Or call me overkill, but I’m a contractor that likes following codes and passing inspections. Just makes the job go smoothly, dontcha think? Also I like giving my customers a problem free shower for a lifetime. Ironically I JUST hammered out an old tile shower to build a new one for a customer. lo and behold it was built exactly like yours! The preslope was black from moisture and there was a continuous layer of mold across the entire membrane. It crumbled easily with blows from a hammer. We had to demold the entire room and the customer had to get a motel because it was so bad. Your method is a product of laziness. Nothing more
Christopher C I wish I could! Fishing is fun! But I’m a tile contractor and have been for 19 years. I build somewhere between 20-25 showers a year. And I’ve seen showers with no preslope. They work for a while. Until all the moisture sitting under the mud deck starts doing its work throughout the structure. Why take this shortcut? Not only is it a bad idea but it violates code
Along with presloping let me help you with free tip: a silicone won't bond to a polished PVC well. ALWAYS rough it up with a sand paper first as l found it out hard way
I don't think ppl quite understand the work that's involved in this process. It looks easy but it can be a major pain in the ass and mishaps can very quickly turn into starting completely from the beginning thanks for the video it helped me do my first one so far no leaks !!!
I just placed my shower base yesterday and it looks great! Thanks for all your help. I used Quickcrete sand topping mix and since it was in my own home, it was easy to keep an eye on it and go back after a couple of hours to trowel it smooth before final hardening. Next step is wall board (Maybe GoBoard) and then Hydro Ban. This is a curbless shower with a linear drain.
@Daniel Knab I'm doing the same thing, not linear drain tho. been working on it for 2 years lolol :( a full demo and had to raise the roof, re route two gang boxes and put in my own exhaust/ light shower fan, duct and eletrical done by me. I'm tall. The old shower was not. Now I'm at this step. Seen alot of these vids. It's nerve wracking
I will say I have watched this video at least 6 times...and i now know why you don't preslope....red guard is a good idea prior to the pan I think I'll do that. Great vid kind sir.
Man I absolutely enjoy your videos man my brother and I started our own bath and kitchen remodel business. Your pan step by step proper way is very helpful I also like the 2x6 for rigidity.👍👍
Best shower pan install video by far. It sucks that I had to watch 15 other videos before I came across this one. No one explains the silicone seal like you do. I installed one with my dad and it failed following other youtubers.
This helped so much, I’m doing the backer board and installing the tile in this shower and the plumber didn’t install this pvc liner in correctly. So glad I found this video
I work alone I do my own thing find it useful to see what other guys are doing around the country our codes are all different this is a good resource to learn from eachother but alot of ppl just talk shit good job brother 🤙🤙🤙
Bob, I hope you're still out there! Just post some of your "before" and "after" pics to continue qualifying your experience to 2019 and beyond. You have taught me what I need to know about DIY or if I hire a pro what to expect. Thanks so much for your straightforward explanation! (Treat yourself to a GoPro!)
Had to laugh when you suggested people might be bored watching. I assure you 99% of people are not watching this for entertainment! Thanks for the demo, that will be very helpful as I take this on... my kid decided to let the shower fill up like a tub for fun by blocking the drain and I have some water damaged ceilings downstairs now. Lots of poor work by previous owners in this old house and im betting they didnt even use a shower pan so in I go again to demolish and redo yet another portion of this house. Thanks for the tutorial.
I love your critiques and your videos are full of great info even if you're not doing the work as a home owner you can check your contractor and request correct work, so thanks brother
Thanks buddy. All your videos helped me do a tremendous remodel of my main bathroom. Not giving up my day job. Just totally thankful for what you and others have offered so selflessly on UA-cam for potential DIY'ers. I watched some of your vids over and over while preparing a tub to shower conversion. Definitely to be recommended if I get the opportunity.
Nice video - the simplest things prevent a heap of misery and are critical insights for project education. A few $0.00 plastic bags from supermarket stuffed in drain will prevent losing parts and possible drainage problems (e.g. bolts or a piece of wood which you would NOT retrieve with your special magnet tool). In fact drains should ALWAYS be covered even if simply working on faucet or shower valves...a lost unique screw will potentially add an hour or two or more with retrieval...especially if drain not readily accessible.
I still think pre-sloping is critical, even if it's just a small slope, it already helps the water to go to the center instead of staying in the corners, when corners are always an issue.
It’s amazing how many people get this critical process wrong. We are redoing a basically brand new bathroom bc a contractor put two pieces of liner together in the shower and seamed it at the drain and taped the seam with mesh tape. Unreal how he thought that was going to work. 3 showers in the house were done like this. They all eventually leaked within a few months. Some people should not do this trade.
@@ohh2beagooner You thank a crackhead for that kind of work. 😂 Many of jobs we have do are fixing construction workers that either on drugs or just lazy.
I follow a few other contractors and all of them have the same problem you do. The keyboard commandos. Anyway, here in Florida there are any methods of installation practiced. Personally I like some over others. All about how you were trained. Standards are changing every year. Just found your channel. I like your videos. Keep up the good work.
I've watched several of your videos and used your advice for doing my first shower in my own house. Thanks for all the info. One thing! I cut flaps and pushed my clamping ring in the way that you did. It pushed in with resistance like you explained. I noticed with careful examination that when you leave the flaps and push the clamping ring in snug the liner and the backside of the clamping ring are too tight together which blocks the weep-holes. I took it back out and cut a full circle, and then I could see down the weep-holes and they were free of the crammed liner.
Thank you Bob, your videos are so thorough. Virtually error proof for a DIYer like myself. I thank you for being a life saver. If you can handle it ....Jesus loves you, Thanks for freely sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for this helpful video. Watching the way you are tucking the corners seems like the corners would allow water to leak in behind the liner because of the way you are pushing the excess liner down to the floor and tucking it behind the liner.
I worked as a maintenance tech for years at an apartment complex. I probably unclogged one or two showers/tubs per week. I wish I could win the lottery as often. Also, that shower drain is likely one of the lowest points in the house, meaning if the main sewer line gets a clog, water could bubble up into that shower. That's real world. I'm from Missouri.
Most of the issues with tubs clogging is that (1) hair and other things get clumped and not drain, (2) using 1.5 inch pipe and fittings instead of 2 inch pipe which almost never clogs and (3) bad install of said pipes by not deburring the inside and outside of the pipes prior to cement welding the fittings to the pipes. As for the main line clogging, you have bigger issues if the main drain backs up - cast iron pipes rusting, roots growing into it, etc. and how a shower was prepped is the least of your worries.
Just a few things to consider: there are a lot of DIY videos on building a shower pan, and after doing some research, there are very few that are done according to building code. Ive lived in many states over the past few years and the one thing ive found is all the municipalities ive lived in have policies showing they adopted the 2009 international residential code (IRC). Youve made it obvious that you dont agree with a pitched sub-base (slangly named a "pre-slope"), but residenita code actually dictates it is required. In the order of layers to be built, the flange will be secured to the subfloor, then a cleavage membrane will be laid on the subfloor, followed by the pitched sub-base, the pan liner, the mortar bed or other base for the tile, then the tile is attached. The unfortunate item is when most people do a remodel, they dont obtain a permit or get an inspection, soma failure on the homeowner and the municipality. Really i look at it this way; if you have years of experience and data to back up the method that you use, as well as demonstrate that your methid results in a much lower failure rate, submit a change to the IRC. In the long run, if homeowners are concernwd with their investment and dont want to have issues when selling, ensuring the job is completed in accordance with IRC is a high priority.
Codes will always lag behind reality and situation on the ground. Look at codes as *after the fact* and enough minds from industry experts and manufacturers have come to an understanding that certain changes are needed. They usually have highly paid lobbyists to pursue such changes. For example, seat belts in cars were not required and industry experts and car makers initially did not want seat belts in cars as they (1) create perception of the car being unsafe and (2) adds cost to building cars and eats away profits. It took years before seat belts were accepted. If you want to lend a hand to Bob and offer your services to submit for a IRC change, no one is stopping you. Generally, DIY people want something that works and while they care about codes but only to a point where it helps them make their projects be successful. The professionals with license care about codes for different reasons (1) CYA, (2) bonding/insurance, etc. While codes are accumulated wisdom of prior experiences and best practices in a field, that does not make the code (for that version) be a complete and all knowledge - duh obvious since new versions of codes get released as time flows and eventually recognizes techniques that were previously looked down upon.
When I looked at the hands of a hardworking man, I was sure that I would see a good tutorial. And so it was with your video. There is no blo blo blo, bla bla bla ni pli pli pli. Correctly and quickly. That's how I give you a 10. When we have to do 10 shower pan by day. Thank Master.
So if water should get under the floor tile, it will just sit there and loosen the mud bed, because you put the liner in the wrong place. Look at how to install an Oatey shower drain. First a sloped mud bed, then the pan liner, then the second mud bed. This way if water gets under the tile, it can drain down the pan liner into the drain.
What you refer to is a Pre-Slope, I don't do them because my belief is they don't work as intended...and there is no proof anywhere they work. But it's a moot issue anyway since I waterproof the surface.
Is it a moot issue? You don't use silicone to seal the liner to the drain so what happens when, let's say, water backs up and gets under the liner because tightening the holes doesn't completely seal the liner to the drain? Now you have water accumulating under the liner, trapped by the liner/water proofing and nowhere to go but down to your kitchen or sit there destroying your mortar base over time.
Great - that's critical to this process and very easy to screw up an otherwise perfect shower bed. If there is anything NOT to mention this is not one of them. If you did and I missed it I apologize.
To all watching this video. His biggest shortfall with this process is that his "hospital folds" of the liner kick out the corners of the cement board and subsequently complicate and interfere with the tile install. This can be easily eliminated by one of two methods: Take the blocking in the far corners and angle it inwards away from the front of the stud to make room for the folded liner; you could also fashion the blocking in the corner to use two 2 x 4 's, one half the length of the other such that when they're joined there's a cavity to allow clearance for his folds. I did the latter.
The shower rarely backing up doesn’t take into account septic tank hookups. I learned that in my house firsthand. The house I bought was part of a foreclosure sale and the bank miscategorized the septic as a city hookup...
Anyone who wants to install a shower pan please do a little research and check the manufacturers instructions you must do a preslope if you want it to function correctly..and if you do a pvc liner don't install redgard over the mudbed all your making is a mess and a product that will fail. Choose one method of waterproofing and do it correctly. I tear out showers all the time with no preslope and yes they will hold water sometimes up to 1".
California is communist, of course they require everything under the sun, but since we are waterproofing pan surface now having a pre slope is a moot and unneeded step
That Missouri reference lol I had my boss tell me im doing great and I'm his top employee! I told him "I'm from Missouri, don't just tell me I'm doing great, SHOW ME!" I'm not from Missouri btw haha
Thanks Bob, super helpful video! Got my liner sitting out in the sun right now to get pliable. I am installing a neo angle shower with two pony walls, so I might need the dam corners since its going up against glass. I could probably have the tar paper on the walls run off onto the liner to be water proof enough, but we will see!
this is a very good vid, very instructive, one improvement would be to show more detail in folding the inside corners and the cutting of the liner when covering over the dam and then how the outside corners glued on secure the cuts around the dam
I have done at least a couple hundred bathroom Commerical and residential I only Use the Schluter Kedri system for a totally water proof shower, I haven't done a shower this way in 15 years . If they won't pay for Kerdi I don't do the job. I have had repair to many of these Oatley jobs for other people . There is more than one way to do the job but polyethylene membranes are the future
There are two companies out there that do not need my money, one of them is Apple and the other is Schluter Kerdi oh, if you gave me that stuff I would put it on Craigslist the next day, there is no way I'm building in my shower out of foam and plastic any more than I want a foam and plastic bumper on my truck... fortunately those only come with cars
Damn right. Drain sitting on a subfloor becomes the highest point on the floor. How the hell they expect water to drain uphill? Either pre slope or install cement board to create a flush.
You're suppose to concrete bottom with 1/4 inch of fall per foot, place liner, also place pea gravel around drain for seepage in case of leak, pour second layer of concrete with same amount of fall as first concrete set
No it is not too heavy, however it is a waste of time since everybody waterproof the surface of their pan before they tile, the pre slope would never kick in because it would never see water
gbsk12 16 minutes ago I just watched this video a few times. It seems sound. In practice? I.made holes for the screws. I guess you are good at finding the screw holes. I thought what were screw holes were not. One hole was an inch off after I cut a cross which I expanded because it was not gong in. This I had an extra hole which is not good. I ended up putting more caulk underneath and on top of the liner so it would not leak. It took me fifteen minutes or twenty to do this. It would have been much easier faster and much better job to leave the bolts in and cut a cross on top. Maybe it works well for you but seems like a bad idea for most people. I am not a rookie DIYer and have worked in construction for two years. The rest of the video is informative
Love the video's -- I use Roofing nails to secure around the perimeter! Easier than trying to balance a drill & screw!! Maybe Santa will bring you a Cordless drill, LOL!!!
@@StarrTile I have all my old dewalt 18 volt tools still. Considered going to 20 volt Because I was tired of the junky 18 volt small nicad batteries that come with the tools, dieing and just tossing them. I decided to give the dewalt xrp / large capacity version a try. Super happy with them. Definitely helps productivity. Still love my corded drill .
Cutting the *X over the drain hole* is preferred over cutting a circle out because the edges of the X act similar to what the Drip Edge does on eaves of a roof. The drip edge provides an easier path for the rain water to flow down the roof and into the gutter without riding down the fascia board. Without the drip edge, the capillary action of the water would wick up the edge of the roof shingle and onto the fascia board - which you don't want. Similarly, the X flaps of the PVC liner over the drain counteracts the capillary action of the water and encourages the water to ride down the edges and into the drain instead of going up under the liner through capillary/wick up action.
The concaved ring is there to accept the convex bead on 2nd part of the drain that locks/ seals in the pan liner. silicone or any other type of caulking adds an unnecessary layer that will eventually breakdown over time leaving a void, causing failure. also lack of pre slope under the liner creates a perpetually wet pan, a swamp effect. A flower pot without drainage, if you will.. I have rebuilt many shower pans over 37 years and these are my conclusions. Pan inspections used to require that the pan liner completely evacuated all water during the test when the inspector pulled the plug/ ie pre sloped liner. I'm watching all these shower pan vids lately because I just rebuilt 2 ten year old shower pans that failed because of these issues. no disrespect to anyone. just adding my experiences. take it or leave it.
Oatey video's are a joke, they make a drain and a pan liner but they build horrible showers. And I do not discuss pre slopes any longer from about 4-5 years ago when we start doing sealed system, the pre slope is irrelevant
The plastic ring for the drain you put down with the 4 bolts tightens it and doesn’t allow water to get under even if the drain backs up. Also you put the plastic ring in upside down. The outside lip goes in where you put the caulking. The groves that are in the plastic ring allow water to drain.
@@jorgeadrian3862 I don't do liners anymore, but when i used to "notch" the studs, I would do a 1/8 to 3/16 dive cut with a multi tool then notch it with the wood chisel.
a key word would be "wicking", not flowing water. If anything, my question would have to do with slow moving water and all that goes with that. I would sure like to hear a response to that.
Bro, Love All your Detailed Videos! Wondering if you would thought about: Super bullet proofing your shower install from leaks/ pre pan liner? By pre Red-guarding the 3/4" plywood (base) before placing drain and gray pan liner. then do exactly the same as you did here. I'd bet it would NEVER Ever Leak in 100+yrs adding my addition, that way....
StarrTile so it's ok to drill into the liner at the top and even put backer board along the bottom part of the walls as long as you don't drill it into the bottom of the studs ? Seems like you just don't want to make any openings farther down ?
Excellent video man thank you for sharing I have learned so much, dont worry about peoeple telling you other wise, keep up the vids and grate work, Aloha from Hawaii.
*PLEASE CONTRIBUTE TO MY PATREON ACCOUNT, I MAKE NOTHING FROM UA-cam*
www.patreon.com/starrtile
StarrTile you need to get you a "go pro". Love your videos and logic. Good work.
@@jcmoney11111
Uh he wants you too buy it for him ,Jiff🤷
Hears a tip for you... when framing your corners for the shower leave a small gap between the corner boards use blocks to stiffen the corners but leave gap open to the height of the pan liner. or on existing showers cut a slot where the corner boards meet creating a gap. Then when installing your membrane instead of folding your corners you tuck them in the gap and pull behind. This way you don’t get a bulky corner.
Why should you get money from UA-cam?
I thought you made videos for fun.
Excellent tutorial! Well done, good angles, 100% comprehensive!
Great video. I enjoy listening to logical people. It just makes sense 🙂 Best statement, "Show Me".
Thanks for your videos! There has been water leaking in my ceiling from undeer the rshower, (was remodeled about 5-6 years ago and I purchased the house almost 3 years ago). So I checked for pipes leaking first; then I cut a hole in the ceiling and ran the shower. Water coming from the seams in the plywood. I removed the tile on the pan and about a foot on the walls all around and then the 1.5" concrete to show that the liner had screws at the height of the concrete and not clearing the 5-7 inches you show here. Gonna keep learning how to be a home owner so thanks for the video. Bad things have happened in threes in the past month and a half; AC fan motor went out, hot water slab leak and now a bad install shower liner.
Thanks for the great video. Helped me a lot in putting together my shower. Also, don't listen to all the "professionals" with negative comments when none of them are willing to show us on camera. You're great!
I've been doing this many years (started in the trades at 18 and I'm 52 now) I've been watching some videos cause I want to start making my own now so I'm checking out diff films. I've seen it all happen thru the years and I will say that this is definitely one of the better & more thorough how-to videos I've seen. There's just a cpl minor things I do differently but for the most part this is how I do it too. Great job Bob!
White epoxy paint can be spray painted to your drain frame so its not black..I've worked 40 yrs in Local 18 Tile & Terrazzo in California and I install all in Mud.. (Old School) But I have to say thank god you are showing the public how to install Tile and sub surfaces the right way !
I'm a carpenter and doing my own bathroom tile myself and find your videos very informative especially about pre slope thanks for your videos
Excellent video! I have watched it numerous times and studied every move you made and listened intently. I install my liner tomorrow. I have applied Aquadefense at least 3 times and now my liner is next. Worried about the corners but will watch this again as I work. Thank you again!!!!
How is your shower holding up? Any issues ?
@@OGCJ10 so far so good! It it water tight! Thank you for asking! God Bless!
i really appreciate your video thanks for sharing, people like you makes the difference in this selfish world
!!!!!!!
I have been wanting to change out my shower for a while now, it's a fiberglass one piece unit, from mid 90's. After watching your video, a few times of course, I decided to try it. So I ripped out the old one and now working on the shower pan. I had watched other video's and they all did the cement layer underneath and that made no sense to me either, so I was so happy after your video that you said there is no need for this. If water gets thru, it will no travel if everything is tight under there anyway. So thank you, you saved me a step too. I'm just on the wood part now around the bottom and then will put the rubber pan down. I'm going to watch your video's, each step, to get me thru this. Lucky for me, it's just the shower stall I'm doing and not the whole bathroom. The shower stall is 3 ft by 3 ft. So thank you for your videos and for the record, I don't think you talk to much, I need the extra advice throughout, so it certainly has been helping me.
Good for you, just take it nice and easy and do a lot of research, you'll be okay....
Here is an extended video about 30 minutes long that shows the whole process
ua-cam.com/video/5Gp-PgGYi64/v-deo.html
@@StarrTile thank you so much!! That is exactly what I am working with in my home. I so appreciate you responding so quickly. I will keep on trucking with my shower remodel..
If you're trying to do anything near a shower, do yourself a favor and only watch this guy's videos. Don't just surf youtube clicking on the shortest length/most attractive video ( Just change the playback speed to 1.5x). They may be lengthy but so is the invoice for hiring a true professional after your attempt failed. If you are a "do it once do it right" person, then follow this man's process. Every honest GC/builder/tile guy needs to implement your techniques. Thank you for these videos Bob
Good job in spending your own time on this video. Pre pans are mandatory in Mpls and other surrounding suburbs. Any low spot in your plywood floor will collect water which never will reach the drain and never dry out with daily showers causing mold to leach up into the grout .
Awesome detailed video and tutorial! I have not found one this good that illustrates and explains the why's and what not's of the job! Off to part 2!! Thank you!
Man I see people come into videos and say well u should have done this and this and this and blah blah blah . But when you watch there videos IF they have vids they do the same thing .. anyway man I appreciate u taking the time out of your life to stop and film for ppl who are diyers in need of some tips . I personally am in the construction trade but this is a great way to keep up with the positive community of ppl helping others out and sharing techniques , keep up the good work brother
Thanks!
@@StarrTile so I am. Having an issue . Could use some insight. So I have my plumbing all roughed in and I installed the ahower mixer , hooked it all up and did a leak test for the pex to make sure all of my connections are good. However water shoots out of the shower head even when I have the knob in off pos. Am I missing a step or is this more likely a faulty cartridge in new fixture
@@mattjudy4037 I don't donate on UA-cam Matt , when I donate it's normally to charity for people who have been through natural disasters or like a charity for children born with diseases through no fault of their own you know stuff like that . I'm hoping to start a UA-cam channel soon and all the advice people could ever want will be free of charge . Even now , when I look through people's comments on stuff like this , if I see someone who has asked a question and haven't been answered I'll answer 99% of the time , unless I don't know the answer, drives me nuts seeing people asking for money on these channels . If someone wants to donate that's their own decision , I'm not going to beg for it when I really do not need it . Like I said there are better things to donate to .. like people in need
@@Carpenters_Canvas You sound like a greedy nut and have no appreciation of the labor you are using. No matter what you are here looking for insights but considering that people who take time and recourses to create this info for you, they are just like entertaining themselves. Go work for free, then your words will mean anything but not when you act like a vulture looking for something to steal.
Amen
Dude. Preslope! Tile is not impervious to water penetration. Water WILL go thru and sit on that liner. With no preslope the water will not wick down the drain. You’re building a sump
Show me proof it works...I'll wait...
ua-cam.com/video/v0HzU42XZz4/v-deo.html
StarrTile
Well. Call me old fashioned. Or call me overkill, but I’m a contractor that likes following codes and passing inspections. Just makes the job go smoothly, dontcha think?
Also I like giving my customers a problem free shower for a lifetime.
Ironically I JUST hammered out an old tile shower to build a new one for a customer. lo and behold it was built exactly like yours! The preslope was black from moisture and there was a continuous layer of mold across the entire membrane. It crumbled easily with blows from a hammer. We had to demold the entire room and the customer had to get a motel because it was so bad.
Your method is a product of laziness. Nothing more
Christopher C
I wish I could! Fishing is fun! But I’m a tile contractor and have been for 19 years. I build somewhere between 20-25 showers a year. And I’ve seen showers with no preslope. They work for a while. Until all the moisture sitting under the mud deck starts doing its work throughout the structure.
Why take this shortcut? Not only is it a bad idea but it violates code
@@jayspencer270 I just tore out an old shower and what I found is exactly how you described. Definitely putting in a preslope
Along with presloping let me help you with free tip: a silicone won't bond to a polished PVC well. ALWAYS rough it up with a sand paper first as l found it out hard way
I don't think ppl quite understand the work that's involved in this process. It looks easy but it can be a major pain in the ass and mishaps can very quickly turn into starting completely from the beginning thanks for the video it helped me do my first one so far no leaks !!!
That warming up the liner tip is super helpful. I would have never thought of that.
Hey Bob..
Just did a liner tonight.
Nice background music.
I just placed my shower base yesterday and it looks great! Thanks for all your help. I used Quickcrete sand topping mix and since it was in my own home, it was easy to keep an eye on it and go back after a couple of hours to trowel it smooth before final hardening. Next step is wall board (Maybe GoBoard) and then Hydro Ban. This is a curbless shower with a linear drain.
So 5 years later, I’m a DIYer wanting the same linear drain and curb less like yours. Any tips you’d suggest for me is appreciated.
@Daniel Knab I'm doing the same thing, not linear drain tho. been working on it for 2 years lolol :( a full demo and had to raise the roof, re route two gang boxes and put in my own exhaust/ light shower fan, duct and eletrical done by me. I'm tall. The old shower was not. Now I'm at this step. Seen alot of these vids. It's nerve wracking
Perfect video . Excellent craftsmanship . I love the Logic .
thanks for the education man, couldn’t find any quality content like this in 2021
I love Common Sense and Voicing Opinions!! And Logic😍👍👏👏
Great install video, I need to show this to some of my customers.
i wish this guy was in TX, i can really use his services, meticulous work
Super super helpful video I literally just finished doing my pan using this video ! Thank you for the good help !!
I will say I have watched this video at least 6 times...and i now know why you don't preslope....red guard is a good idea prior to the pan I think I'll do that. Great vid kind sir.
Thanks for helping us do our shower. We did it like a pro, but only because you taught us how!
Man I absolutely enjoy your videos man my brother and I started our own bath and kitchen remodel business. Your pan step by step proper way is very helpful I also like the 2x6 for rigidity.👍👍
had my shower back up a number of times due to a faulty pump in the septic tank. so now I have to redo the shower again thanks for the video
Best shower pan install video by far. It sucks that I had to watch 15 other videos before I came across this one. No one explains the silicone seal like you do. I installed one with my dad and it failed following other youtubers.
Love this video. I am learning so much just watching you do your work. Now I know the right way to redo my shower when I did it wrong the first time.
If you watched this you didn't learn anything corr ctly
Don't be a hater Norman...
I really don't mind blocking people 👌✌💪
This helped so much, I’m doing the backer board and installing the tile in this shower and the plumber didn’t install this pvc liner in correctly. So glad I found this video
Thank you for the close up on how you folded in the corners of the pan liner. the first 2 I was like how he do that
I work alone I do my own thing find it useful to see what other guys are doing around the country our codes are all different this is a good resource to learn from eachother but alot of ppl just talk shit good job brother 🤙🤙🤙
Just found this video and I subscribed,great how to video,GOD BLESS
Bob, I hope you're still out there! Just post some of your "before" and "after" pics to continue qualifying your experience to 2019 and beyond. You have taught me what I need to know about DIY or if I hire a pro what to expect. Thanks so much for your straightforward explanation! (Treat yourself to a GoPro!)
Thanks!
Had to laugh when you suggested people might be bored watching. I assure you 99% of people are not watching this for entertainment! Thanks for the demo, that will be very helpful as I take this on... my kid decided to let the shower fill up like a tub for fun by blocking the drain and I have some water damaged ceilings downstairs now. Lots of poor work by previous owners in this old house and im betting they didnt even use a shower pan so in I go again to demolish and redo yet another portion of this house. Thanks for the tutorial.
You are most welcome.
1st place for best shower pan soundtrack! GROOVY!
Dude.....you rock!
Love everything about your videos!!
Especially starting out with cool tunes!!
Yes, I agree... love the tunes... love the thought and the energy put into the videos!
Thanks so much for the video sir. I’m doing my first tile shower job and following your method to the smallest details.
I love your critiques and your videos are full of great info even if you're not doing the work as a home owner you can check your contractor and request correct work, so thanks brother
Dude! The song at 10 min in 👌🏻🔥✨ yes! 🙌🏻 I love it!
Great video!
Thanks buddy. All your videos helped me do a tremendous remodel of my main bathroom. Not giving up my day job. Just totally thankful for what you and others have offered so selflessly on UA-cam for potential DIY'ers. I watched some of your vids over and over while preparing a tub to shower conversion. Definitely to be recommended if I get the opportunity.
Thank You !
Nice video - the simplest things prevent a heap of misery and are critical insights for project education. A few $0.00 plastic bags from supermarket stuffed in drain will prevent losing parts and possible drainage problems (e.g. bolts or a piece of wood which you would NOT retrieve with your special magnet tool). In fact drains should ALWAYS be covered even if simply working on faucet or shower valves...a lost unique screw will potentially add an hour or two or more with retrieval...especially if drain not readily accessible.
Great video I would only suggest putting a rolled up bag in the hole temporary that wrench slipped out my hand once and the bag saved me.
I still think pre-sloping is critical, even if it's just a small slope, it already helps the water to go to the center instead of staying in the corners, when corners are always an issue.
Presloap under the liner agreed, it also watwr proofs stuff better
Bogdan Aktamakov
Exactly !
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It’s amazing how many people get this critical process wrong. We are redoing a basically brand new bathroom bc a contractor put two pieces of liner together in the shower and seamed it at the drain and taped the seam with mesh tape. Unreal how he thought that was going to work. 3 showers in the house were done like this. They all eventually leaked within a few months. Some people should not do this trade.
@@ohh2beagooner You thank a crackhead for that kind of work. 😂
Many of jobs we have do are fixing construction workers that either on drugs or just lazy.
Good job, thanks for sharing. First time doing a shower and my wife thinks I’m a contractor now
Thanks bro I’m learning how to do shower for the firs time & I’m enjoy watching your video thanks again
this is the best....your logic is spot on! thanks! work begins in the morning....wish me luck!
You are very Through on your Videos.
Sadly, some People are just haters.. Keep up the (your) great Videos!
Really enjoyed your well thought out video. Like the mentality!
I follow a few other contractors and all of them have the same problem you do. The keyboard commandos. Anyway, here in Florida there are any methods of installation practiced. Personally I like some over others. All about how you were trained. Standards are changing every year. Just found your channel. I like your videos. Keep up the good work.
Chris Wolinski Floriduh is a low wage hole, some of the worst construction I have ever seen.
I've watched several of your videos and used your advice for doing my first shower in my own house. Thanks for all the info. One thing!
I cut flaps and pushed my clamping ring in the way that you did. It pushed in with resistance like you explained. I noticed with careful examination that when you leave the flaps and push the clamping ring in snug the liner and the backside of the clamping ring are too tight together which blocks the weep-holes.
I took it back out and cut a full circle, and then I could see down the weep-holes and they were free of the crammed liner.
I don't have that issue but glad it worked out for you...and thanks for watching !
I like it, less ,cuts and less holes ,in the liner less chance of the water get on the play wood THANKS, 👏👏👍👍
Thank you Bob, your videos are so thorough. Virtually error proof for a DIYer like myself. I thank you for being a life saver. If you can handle it ....Jesus loves you, Thanks for freely sharing your knowledge.
Thanks for this helpful video. Watching the way you are tucking the corners seems like the corners would allow water to leak in behind the liner because of the way you are pushing the excess liner down to the floor and tucking it behind the liner.
Nicely done!!!!! Great video, Thank you.
Done without a camera man!? Bravo, that’s the real achievement here!
Awesome thanks for the diy video. I watch all your videos and this does help explain a lot. Thanks for going through the trouble!!
You're welcome
Watching you get those corners right leads me to believe you're awesome at wrapping Christmas presents lol. Great video, thanks for sharing!
I worked as a maintenance tech for years at an apartment complex. I probably unclogged one or two showers/tubs per week. I wish I could win the lottery as often. Also, that shower drain is likely one of the lowest points in the house, meaning if the main sewer line gets a clog, water could bubble up into that shower. That's real world. I'm from Missouri.
Most of the issues with tubs clogging is that (1) hair and other things get clumped and not drain, (2) using 1.5 inch pipe and fittings instead of 2 inch pipe which almost never clogs and (3) bad install of said pipes by not deburring the inside and outside of the pipes prior to cement welding the fittings to the pipes. As for the main line clogging, you have bigger issues if the main drain backs up - cast iron pipes rusting, roots growing into it, etc. and how a shower was prepped is the least of your worries.
Just a few things to consider: there are a lot of DIY videos on building a shower pan, and after doing some research, there are very few that are done according to building code. Ive lived in many states over the past few years and the one thing ive found is all the municipalities ive lived in have policies showing they adopted the 2009 international residential code (IRC). Youve made it obvious that you dont agree with a pitched sub-base (slangly named a "pre-slope"), but residenita code actually dictates it is required. In the order of layers to be built, the flange will be secured to the subfloor, then a cleavage membrane will be laid on the subfloor, followed by the pitched sub-base, the pan liner, the mortar bed or other base for the tile, then the tile is attached. The unfortunate item is when most people do a remodel, they dont obtain a permit or get an inspection, soma failure on the homeowner and the municipality. Really i look at it this way; if you have years of experience and data to back up the method that you use, as well as demonstrate that your methid results in a much lower failure rate, submit a change to the IRC. In the long run, if homeowners are concernwd with their investment and dont want to have issues when selling, ensuring the job is completed in accordance with IRC is a high priority.
Codes will always lag behind reality and situation on the ground. Look at codes as *after the fact* and enough minds from industry experts and manufacturers have come to an understanding that certain changes are needed. They usually have highly paid lobbyists to pursue such changes. For example, seat belts in cars were not required and industry experts and car makers initially did not want seat belts in cars as they (1) create perception of the car being unsafe and (2) adds cost to building cars and eats away profits. It took years before seat belts were accepted. If you want to lend a hand to Bob and offer your services to submit for a IRC change, no one is stopping you. Generally, DIY people want something that works and while they care about codes but only to a point where it helps them make their projects be successful. The professionals with license care about codes for different reasons (1) CYA, (2) bonding/insurance, etc. While codes are accumulated wisdom of prior experiences and best practices in a field, that does not make the code (for that version) be a complete and all knowledge - duh obvious since new versions of codes get released as time flows and eventually recognizes techniques that were previously looked down upon.
speak for yourself regards multi taking some are better than others.. also thank you so much for the knowledge.. really thank you.
When I looked at the hands of a hardworking man, I was sure that I would see a good tutorial. And so it was with your video. There is no blo blo blo, bla bla bla ni pli pli pli. Correctly and quickly. That's how I give you a 10. When we have to do 10 shower pan by day. Thank Master.
So if water should get under the floor tile, it will just sit there and loosen the mud bed, because you put the liner in the wrong place. Look at how to install an Oatey shower drain. First a sloped mud bed, then the pan liner, then the second mud bed. This way if water gets under the tile, it can drain down the pan liner into the drain.
What you refer to is a Pre-Slope, I don't do them because my belief is they don't work as intended...and there is no proof anywhere they work. But it's a moot issue anyway since I waterproof the surface.
Is it a moot issue? You don't use silicone to seal the liner to the drain so what happens when, let's say, water backs up and gets under the liner because tightening the holes doesn't completely seal the liner to the drain? Now you have water accumulating under the liner, trapped by the liner/water proofing and nowhere to go but down to your kitchen or sit there destroying your mortar base over time.
Silicone does go on the flange, clamping ring on top after liner is down....
BUT, anyone that has a backed up shower stops using it & unclogs it.
Great - that's critical to this process and very easy to screw up an otherwise perfect shower bed. If there is anything NOT to mention this is not one of them. If you did and I missed it I apologize.
Bill Hutson was the
Thank you for your excellent tutorial n installing shower pan liner. Mine is perfect, just likes yours. Cheers
To all watching this video. His biggest shortfall with this process is that his "hospital folds" of the liner kick out the corners of the cement board and subsequently complicate and interfere with the tile install.
This can be easily eliminated by one of two methods: Take the blocking in the far corners and angle it inwards away from the front of the stud to make room for the folded liner; you could also fashion the blocking in the corner to use two 2 x 4 's, one half the length of the other such that when they're joined there's a cavity to allow clearance for his folds. I did the latter.
I was thinking the same thing but you beat me to it. Way to go to use common sense to solve a problem.
The shower rarely backing up doesn’t take into account septic tank hookups. I learned that in my house firsthand.
The house I bought was part of a foreclosure sale and the bank miscategorized the septic as a city hookup...
Anyone who wants to install a shower pan please do a little research and check the manufacturers instructions you must do a preslope if you want it to function correctly..and if you do a pvc liner don't install redgard over the mudbed all your making is a mess and a product that will fail.
Choose one method of waterproofing and do it correctly.
I tear out showers all the time with no preslope and yes they will hold water sometimes up to 1".
ya i'm wondering the same thing rubber over plywood, no pre slope... 🤔
I’m new and not sure why he is against it
My friend you install it professionally, in California we have put a pre slop before the installing th liner.
California is communist, of course they require everything under the sun, but since we are waterproofing pan surface now having a pre slope is a moot and unneeded step
Excellent articulation.
Quick pitch should sponsor you, I bought a kit from your channel.
That Missouri reference lol
I had my boss tell me im doing great and I'm his top employee! I told him "I'm from Missouri, don't just tell me I'm doing great, SHOW ME!" I'm not from Missouri btw haha
Thanks Bob, super helpful video! Got my liner sitting out in the sun right now to get pliable. I am installing a neo angle shower with two pony walls, so I might need the dam corners since its going up against glass. I could probably have the tar paper on the walls run off onto the liner to be water proof enough, but we will see!
this is a very good vid, very instructive, one improvement would be to show more detail in folding the inside corners and the cutting of the liner when covering over the dam and then how the outside corners glued on secure the cuts around the dam
I have done at least a couple hundred bathroom Commerical and residential I only Use the Schluter Kedri system for a totally water proof shower, I haven't done a shower this way in 15 years . If they won't pay for Kerdi I don't do the job. I have had repair to many of these Oatley jobs for other people . There is more than one way to do the job but polyethylene membranes are the future
There are two companies out there that do not need my money, one of them is Apple and the other is Schluter Kerdi oh, if you gave me that stuff I would put it on Craigslist the next day, there is no way I'm building in my shower out of foam and plastic any more than I want a foam and plastic bumper on my truck... fortunately those only come with cars
Should put a pre sloped wet bed underneath the vinyl. Then the final bed on top. That’s the proper way.
Damn right. Drain sitting on a subfloor becomes the highest point on the floor. How the hell they expect water to drain uphill? Either pre slope or install cement board to create a flush.
I am very happy I watched this. Thank you sir.
You're suppose to concrete bottom with 1/4 inch of fall per foot, place liner, also place pea gravel around drain for seepage in case of leak, pour second layer of concrete with same amount of fall as first concrete set
So, before the liner, put first layer of mud, then liner, then mud again. Isn’t it too heave for second floor? Thanks for any advice.
No it is not too heavy, however it is a waste of time since everybody waterproof the surface of their pan before they tile, the pre slope would never kick in because it would never see water
@@StarrTile No pre slope =fail.
What’s the point of weep holes if there’s no pre slope?
BS
gbsk12
16 minutes ago
I just watched this video a few times. It seems sound. In practice? I.made holes for the screws. I guess you are good at finding the screw holes. I thought what were screw holes were not. One hole was an inch off after I cut a cross which I expanded because it was not gong in. This I had an extra hole which is not good. I ended up putting more caulk underneath and on top of the liner so it would not leak. It took me fifteen minutes or twenty to do this. It would have been much easier faster and much better job to leave the bolts in and cut a cross on top. Maybe it works well for you but seems like a bad idea for most people. I am not a rookie DIYer and have worked in construction for two years. The rest of the video is informative
Excellent video! I've been wanting to see how you fold the liner. Thank you.
Love the video's -- I use Roofing nails to secure around the perimeter! Easier than trying to balance a drill & screw!!
Maybe Santa will bring you a Cordless drill, LOL!!!
I have a cordless...rarely use it, dead batteries are a pet peeve.
@@StarrTile I have all my old dewalt 18 volt tools still. Considered going to 20 volt Because I was tired of the junky 18 volt small nicad batteries that come with the tools, dieing and just tossing them. I decided to give the dewalt xrp / large capacity version a try. Super happy with them. Definitely helps productivity. Still love my corded drill .
Cutting the *X over the drain hole* is preferred over cutting a circle out because the edges of the X act similar to what the Drip Edge does on eaves of a roof. The drip edge provides an easier path for the rain water to flow down the roof and into the gutter without riding down the fascia board. Without the drip edge, the capillary action of the water would wick up the edge of the roof shingle and onto the fascia board - which you don't want. Similarly, the X flaps of the PVC liner over the drain counteracts the capillary action of the water and encourages the water to ride down the edges and into the drain instead of going up under the liner through capillary/wick up action.
AWESOME TEACHER!!
Excellent video tutorial! Good angles great commentary.
The concaved ring is there to accept the convex bead on 2nd part of the drain that locks/ seals in the pan liner. silicone or any other type of caulking adds an unnecessary layer that will eventually breakdown over time leaving a void, causing failure. also lack of pre slope under the liner creates a perpetually wet pan, a swamp effect. A flower pot without drainage, if you will..
I have rebuilt many shower pans over 37 years and these are my conclusions.
Pan inspections used to require that the pan liner completely evacuated all water during the test when the inspector pulled the plug/ ie pre sloped liner.
I'm watching all these shower pan vids lately because I just rebuilt 2 ten year old shower pans that failed because of these issues.
no disrespect to anyone. just adding my experiences. take it or leave it.
I just repaired 2 in a month for the same exact reasons you just pointed out
I like your video it's very informative what's with the no pre slope
Thanks for your video, question, the drywall screw to hold the shower pan liner will pass inspection.
Preslope is a MUST! Oatey showes as well!
Oatey video's are a joke, they make a drain and a pan liner but they build horrible showers.
And I do not discuss pre slopes any longer from about 4-5 years ago when we start doing sealed system, the pre slope is irrelevant
Wow what a classy response.@@StarrTile
Thank you nice to see this done the right way.
The plastic ring for the drain you put down with the 4 bolts tightens it and doesn’t allow water to get under even if the drain backs up. Also you put the plastic ring in upside down. The outside lip goes in where you put the caulking. The groves that are in the plastic ring allow water to drain.
The plastic ring you refer to is a locking ring, it is impossible to install it upside down, doesn't work that way.
I will say I do like a pre slope idea as long as the mud depth would be 4" total, but thats rare.
Love these videos! Thank you for sharing your knowledge!
And thank YOU for watching ;-)
When I do liners I always chisel out the wood where the folds go so the wallboard isn't kicked out
Jason Cyr you chisel out the studs?
Jason Cyr
Notch would be a better word.
He probably uses a wood chisel so yeah chiseled out
@@jorgeadrian3862 I don't do liners anymore, but when i used to "notch" the studs, I would do a 1/8 to 3/16 dive cut with a multi tool then notch it with the wood chisel.
a key word would be "wicking", not flowing water. If anything, my question would have to do with slow moving water and all that goes with that. I would sure like to hear a response to that.
Bro, Love All your Detailed Videos!
Wondering if you would thought about: Super bullet proofing your shower install from leaks/ pre pan liner?
By pre Red-guarding the 3/4" plywood (base) before placing drain and gray pan liner. then do exactly the same as you did here.
I'd bet it would NEVER Ever Leak in 100+yrs adding my addition, that way....
I was thinking the same thing but was unsure of what product to use! I will look into Red-guard as I have seen it before in a few other videos!
When waterproofing anything it's best to remember that gravity never fails. Sealants will fail. Gravity won't.
Love the background music 🎶 🎵
this is an excellent video - extremely informative
thanks
StarrTile so it's ok to drill into the liner at the top and even put backer board along the bottom part of the walls as long as you don't drill it into the bottom of the studs ? Seems like you just don't want to make any openings farther down ?
As long as the screws are higher than than mortar....
Uploading a video tonight that explains in detail the process, look for it.
Excellent video man thank you for sharing I have learned so much, dont worry about peoeple telling you other wise, keep up the vids and grate work, Aloha from Hawaii.
Great vid, excellent instructions and awesome music!