@@Manc-king I believe it was written by a political journalist. He'd been working with government officials and such for decades and a lot of the stuff he wrote for Yes Minister was based on conversations he'd actually heard. Apparently it was a favorite of a lot of MPs because it was so cynically accurate.
I had to sit three days of exams, be interviewed in the presence of psychologists and be observed in group activities by psychologists in order to get in to the UK civil service. Now that I am retired, I continue to be truly shocked by the way things have slipped.
When the Armed Forces had a new rifle (the SA80) foisted upon them, it was nicknamed "The Civil Servant" - because it didn't work and you couldn't fire it.....
Felipe is broadly correct about the civil service (BTW a distinction is to be drawn between national government/central civil service and local government/regional civil service). The Blair government sought to politicise the civil service in order to co-opt it into political decisions for that government’s short term benefit. The effect has been to create a suspicion in subsequent administrations that the civil service is no longer neutral. That being said, the national civil service still has a good reputation outside overt political circles and there is ZERO appetite to follow the USA model of every administration appointing political allies/benefactors to head every government agency or department.
As an ex-civil servant I can tell you that this programme is very near the truth. The guy (Bernard)in the corner is a private Secretary but also a civil servant. He would run the Minister’s office and work directly to the Minister. Sir Humphrey is a Permanent Secretary and head civil servant of his Government Department and therefore ultimately Bernard’s boss.
There was an interview with the writers of this brilliant show a few years ago. They revealed when they were writing it in the 1980’s that they had a source in both the Conservative and Labour parties feeding them information - neither knew about the other. Apparently just about everything that was covered in the series actually did happen or very nearly did. The most famous story was the “Communications Office” scene - although you do need to know your alcohol to appreciate that clip 🍷🍹🥃🍸🍾🍺🍻!
Felipe, I am so glad you enjoy and watch the "yes minister" series. It will answer your own questions. Why were the Civil service against Brexit? You know Sir humphrey....the last thing that they want is popular power, and disruptring the status quo of the bureaucracy....the civil service has no foreign or ethnic boundaries, they are all the same people, in Whitehall or Brussels
The expression "Corridors of Power" is very apt in English Politics as Most decisions take place in 'casual' conversations at the last minute in the corridors before the meeting! With colleagues seeming to suddenly reverse their voting decisions over an issue that was formerly agreed upon!!!
When I worked for local Councils in London and before that a Nationalised Industry and back to 1971 in THe Civil Service, a mere 50 years ago, we tended to have Committees to decide whether to have a Committee to oversee the actual appropriate Committee's decisions, in triplicate, of course....:)
The guy in the corner is a Private Secretary, which means he has a foot in both camps (Civil service and MP) and thus is constantly torn between loyalty to both of his bosses.
I think you're confusing Principal private secretary (Bernard's job) which is a civil servant with Parliamentary Private Secretary who is an MP who works for a minister or other senior MP (basically the bottom rung on the ladder to becoming a minister).
There is always a top down chain in the service. Sir Humphrey is at the top, as he is head of the service. There are more than 100,000 people in the UK civil serice.
This was such a brilliant comedy. Despite its age now it never dates. The ministers constant battle with his civil service is a constant one, and he seldom gets any victories, so seeing him losing an argument is wonderful. It is quite easy to join the civil service. An entrants exam determines which department you are taken in by. There are various departments which are more important like the home office and the foreign office.
There was another way in. I applied to the actual department (Home Office and MOD) for the lowest technical posts on leaving the Forces. I worked my way from Radio Technician to effectively Higher Scientific Officer over the years before retiring early. Wasn't the route you described for policy wonks who wanted to be "high flyers"?
I think in US many of the civil servants change with the change of President. In UK it is permanent the same people are expected to serve whatever government is in office 'impartially'.The Indian Civil Service was reckoned better than the British civil Service during the empire and the exams for entry much harder.
Phillipe and Lillian, I am in a unique position to add to your discussion regarding Civil Servants. I worked for the Civil Service, from May 2017 until June 2020 last year. I was an Immigration Caseworker, basically Granting/ Refusing applications. Most of cases in our department were grants as we were dealing with the complient applicants, like yours for instance. However I was working via an agency. In this way they could hire and fire as they pleased. I wouldnt like to guess what percentage of the workforce were agency workers, but could dismiss you/ terminate your contract for the most pedantic of reasons. This happened to me, without going into detail, my infraction was such that there was no way anybody else would be disadvantaged by my actions and in the same way there was no way that I could benefit from it. Add to that the fact that I did not even realise that I had done anything wrong and you get the picture. The Agencies have a total monopoly on the Job Market now, there may be as little as 1% of companies that actually hire themselves. This gives companies and government agencies the huge benefit of being able to rush people in during to peak or crisis times and Immediately lay them off without any accountability when things are back to normal.
In the series Jim Hacker was the cabinet minister in charge of the department for administrative affairs (it's fictional, there's no corresponding real life ministry). Sir Humphrey Appleby was the Permanent Secretary of the department which badically means he's the head civil servant in charge of running things (you can think of Jim as the chairman of the board and Sir Humphrey as the cheif executive) the othe person in the scene is Bernard Wolley who's title is Principal Private Secretary which is analagous to being Jim's P.A. (Although this is an executive rather than a secretarial position. He was, in effect, Sir Humphrey's deputy.
To get in the Civil Service it very much depends on who you know, not what you know. The 'old school tie' network. There's a joke about the Eton Advent Calendar - it's like a regular advent calendar but all the doors are opened by friends of your Father!!
The Civil Service employ quite a few people in my home town Swansea. The DVLA and the DWP have large offices there. Civil Service jobs do tend to pay better than the equivalent types of role in the private sector.
They don't tend to pay better, but, historically, they were more reliable and had better pensions. That's not so much the case now. Also , there's a massive difference between the Senior Civil Service (as in Sir Humphrey), and the Civil Service (as in the DVLA in Swansea).
@@NotThatOneThisOne I totally agree with your last point. But when I said they pay better than the equivalent types of role in the private sector, perhaps I should have clarified that I meant in the Swansea area. There was some discussion about changing this a few years back but essentially civil service roles get paid according to bandings but in the private sector of course, salaries and the cost of living vary throughout the U.K. therefore in Swansea where pay is low and the cost of living is low, an entry level call centre agent in the DVLA earns approx 20% more pay than the equivalent entry level call centre job in the area plus better pension and sick benefits etc.
@@andrewjones4568 true, but Swansea is a bit of an exceptional case. The DVLA went there because of the poverty in the area and because of the higher number of lower pay bands where there is an advantage over private sector. If comparing HEO/SEO and above to the private sector, the pay is more comparable, but the responsibilities typically greater.
hi Felipe and Lillian yes this was a classic sitcom and as a lot of them invoved straight actors playing comic roles. .Also distinctive with these british comedies was the theme music by Ronnie Hazelhurst. Re Nigel Hawthorne also worth a look-up is the film "the madness of George the third"
To understand the public service and relation to politicians, look at a company, let's say IT - software: the owners (politicians) set the objectives (the main products: games, operating system/the main political objectives or policies: increase education funding, increase public safety etc.), but they need people who are specialized in a certain domain to advise them about the implications and to actually figure out how to implement the objectives (developers, engineers, graphic designers etc.), and also a lot of other domains that are not part of the main objective, but need to be done anyway (accounting, marketing, legal etc.). The civil servants are kind of like the employees - people with certain technical skills that are supposed to deal with the practical, technical side of implementing policies.
Funny clip and reaction. A series I never watch but perhaps I should. Also some insightful stuff from Felipe in the post vid discussion about the Civil Service. Good stuff !!
Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that Heads of the Civil Service Departments are appointed and may not have been promoted through the ranks.
you need to watch the whole episode sir Humphrey bribes the minister with an honorary doctorate in Law from Bayley but in a completely unrelated matter the minister needs to recheck the honors list which he then realized he's previous position of earn your honors was incorrect.
The other reason for forming a committee to decide on an issue is that the issue is never decided on, therefore it doesn't happen. I think this was Sir Humphrey's tactic. Another alternative is that the outcome of the committee's decision hardly resembles the original proposal hence the saying that 'a camel is a horse designed by a committee'!
13:45 I couldn't agree more!!!!! you never hear any one say these days " I will take the slings and arrows the buck stops here!! I take full responsibility " no, never!!! Just "I am unanimous in that!!!!" I SHOULD STAND!!!!!!!!!!!!
The guy in the corner is the minister's private secretary and the civil servant is the permanent department civil servant cant be fired regardless of changing governments
Yeah, but in America, no politician actually takes responsibility for bad decisions, nothing happens to them, the only possible consequence is that it may affect their re-election chances, but even then people usually vote on party lines, so really nobody is held accountable.
They were given honours because these highly intelligent people could have gone into the private sector & probably achieved far more away from Government. Like the judiciary the Civil Service is independent & passionately so. The Minister make the policy the Civil service carries it out. The Civil Service may well point out any problems & issues arising from this policy as politicians are often short sighted at best & out of their depth at worst, not least because the average minister serves around 18 months in that department! The Civil service desire for a committee is a stalling tactic designed to bog down the decision making process & ultimately suggest the outcame the Civil Service wants, in the future, while seeming to be addressing a issue. 'Creative inertia' as Sir Humphrey would call it.
Yes Minister was made 17 years prior to the Blair years - Blair's changes were about filling it with Labour supporters just like with the House of Lords. The Civil Service was always nepotistic and needed reform but Blair's reforms weren't about making it better at its job....They were about making it impossible for the Conservatives to ever rule. Note that even after 11 years of Tory led Government very little has changed from the Gordon Brown years - This is because the Civil Service, the Media, the Judiciary, the Police, the Teachers Unions etc. are all Heavily Labour led! If it wasn't for the fact that Labour itself became unelectable in England and lost Scotland to the SNP things would be even worse but even with Boris in power the government is still pushing Labour policies because those are the only ones the Media, the Civil Service, the Judiciary etc. will let through!
Well the main reason the civil service was anti brexit is because its cussed issues for their gravy train. If you stop for 2 minutes to think about it is very very obvious.
Fiction becoming fact! Apparently Thatcher loved the programme. Of course there is a lot of truth in the comedy. I’ve been in both camps and have experienced self interest in both. There is a prevailing view that private enterprise does it better, truth is good management is seen in both. Where you are coming from politically colours how you view it.
I hate to tell you, but I believe the US basically invented the committee, it was not traditionally a UK thing. Think about the famous Committee on UnAmerican Activities. In the UK, politicians made policy, debating them in the two houses, and then civil servants carried them out. At some point in the quite recent past, ISTR it was the '90s, the UK Parliament started having these public "select committees" staffed by politicians. I don't remember what the pro argument was, probably something to do with transparency.
FYI, you said _'...a few months ago, when Farage was making a fuss about the migrants, she was dealing with that...'_ That whole situation is still going on as far as I know.
Don't politicians in the US appoint their own staff? I think that's the big difference between the US and the UK when it comes to the Civil Service - The CIvil Service is there already and the Politicians have no say in its makeup whereas in the US when a new President comes in you get a raft of replacements in the top jobs.
The civil service, to work there you apply for job, they are advertised, same as in any government, either local authorities, to the top. You would be expected to hold the relevant qualifications. Professor Chris Whitty, as Chief Medical Officer would, of course, be a Medic. Some people are head hunted. Brexit put some under scrutiny. At the end of the day, we the Electorate decide, as you will have witnessed after the referendum. We love our politics, suggest you watch some of the Select Committees to see how things run. The top one is the Liason Committee. They can be hilarious, gives you an idea of the intelligence of some of the MPs. Love watching Dawn Butler, not the sharpest knife in the box.
@RebeccaT yes, she also asked stupid questions to Prof Hoby, Prof N. Ferguson and another, they started taking the micky, in a subtle way. She didn't even noticed. Prof. Whitty has told her I can't answer that, as I don't understand the question
Just watched your comments on Yes Minister and viewed how the cabinet works and how the civil service works ..... It looks like Felipe is well into learning about how our government works :-)..... Hmmmmmm l keep looking at Felipe and l know he likes our monarchy and our kings and Queens and we have so much history in the united kingdom but is Felipe trying to look like royalty ie one of our kings with that beard like George the 5 th or Tzar Nicholas the second ,,, l think the beard works for him ,,, a bit more trimming and your there Felipe ..... I think l've put my head on the block :-( ,,, Sorry not meant to be offensive Lillian :-).... :-)
The committee itself is meant to be a more democratic process where various representative views are gathered and decisions are made rather than the more dictatorial one person decision-making you mentioned Philip. A leader is only as good as his or her ethics and values. If you have A leader who is not able to bring forward the skills; knowledge and personal inspiration of the group they are leading, you have failed processes. The principle is not to impose your own individualised views but to build on evolution and inclusive but varied and diverse philosophical and intellectual contribution from those around you. Having said that, I did see a video clip of Sadik Khan (the Mayor of London) and one of their committee meetings in which a man was asking about the imposition of male language on female identity in relation to womanhood. E.g., the banning of the word breast; mother and breastfeeding in the trans-experience. To activist women objected saying he was using abusive language I I just asking the question and because two women objected, his points were shut down. No tolerance of different view in exploring social concerns. The incredible thing is that male descriptions are being imposed on female identity by biological males who want to identify as a woman. This is without consent of women themselves. So, committees don't always act on an inclusive and diverse basis particularly nowadays they seem to exclude diverse thinking and only want one directional thought. Are quite deliberate of course in terms of The imposition of Marxist ideology is within institutions.
Committees are an opportunity to question why the decision was taken, what information was provided to make that decision. You will have to go to your Local Authorities to get a flavour, they are open to the public. Not many, members of the public attend, unless its controversial, public not allowed to participate in discussion. Generally boring. Read their minutes on line.
Oh Whitehall needs a shake up but that person is there solely because she’s professed loyalty to Boris. Not that I doubt for a second that either of them would dump the other if it was to their advantage.
The Tories were forced by public opinion on the 2016 Brexit referendum to agree to leaving the EU. The whole political class did not want to leave. Since then I think we have seen politicians using Covid to show the people who is boss, with a tinge of revenge. IMO.
Honourable James Hacker mp is the mimister for Admimistave affairs ( fictious department. ) Sir Humphry Appleby is the permanent secratarty to the dept. Think jr to the US Secratary. Such as a director. The other one is the permanent private secratary to the Minister. He amindisters to the Minister's schedule, correspondece and explaining ( yeah right) what the rules and laws the department has to operate under. As for qualifying for the civil service, go to the right schools. Take the right courses. Excell in them. Get into Oxford and Cambridge. Show that you have the right breeding so to speak, that you are top of your class. Soundness above all else. Then you can apply and take the exams. If accepted you can join. Work from a lowly position out in the wikderness and perhaps eventually rise up to the mighty ranks of #11 Downing St. The HQ of the cabinet and their immediate civil service. Humphrey had been there near 30 years at that point. Served 11 differrent governments
Or, in my case, a cushy job after I turned down the opportunity to take Articles and join a Chartered Accountancy firm in Moorgate, City Of London in 1971 :)
Au Contraire. As someone who has loved British comedies and sitcoms since " The Rag Trade" in 1961, just the odd 60 years ago, I would Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister is, easily, in my Top One.....just ahead of Blackadder, Peter Kay, Tim Vine, Lee Mack, Fawlty Towers, The Thick of It , The Office,Extras and especially Alan Partridge in his various forms :)
The first time I watched it I thought it was a good sitcom but as I got older I came to realize it's a documentary
My father worked in the Civil Service. He loved this programme. He said it was very close to the truth.
I’m sure it was written by an ex civil servant
@@Manc-king I believe it was written by a political journalist. He'd been working with government officials and such for decades and a lot of the stuff he wrote for Yes Minister was based on conversations he'd actually heard. Apparently it was a favorite of a lot of MPs because it was so cynically accurate.
I had to sit three days of exams, be interviewed in the presence of psychologists and be observed in group activities by psychologists in order to get in to the UK civil service. Now that I am retired, I continue to be truly shocked by the way things have slipped.
When the Armed Forces had a new rifle (the SA80) foisted upon them, it was nicknamed "The Civil Servant" - because it didn't work and you couldn't fire it.....
🤣🤣🤣🤣
Felipe is broadly correct about the civil service (BTW a distinction is to be drawn between national government/central civil service and local government/regional civil service).
The Blair government sought to politicise the civil service in order to co-opt it into political decisions for that government’s short term benefit. The effect has been to create a suspicion in subsequent administrations that the civil service is no longer neutral.
That being said, the national civil service still has a good reputation outside overt political circles and there is ZERO appetite to follow the USA model of every administration appointing political allies/benefactors to head every government agency or department.
James Bond was a civil servant..
As an ex-civil servant I can tell you that this programme is very near the truth. The guy (Bernard)in the corner is a private Secretary but also a civil servant. He would run the Minister’s office and work directly to the Minister. Sir Humphrey is a Permanent Secretary and head civil servant of his Government Department and therefore ultimately Bernard’s boss.
if you are an ex civil servant i dont believe you.
There was an interview with the writers of this brilliant show a few years ago. They revealed when they were writing it in the 1980’s that they had a source in both the Conservative and Labour parties feeding them information - neither knew about the other. Apparently just about everything that was covered in the series actually did happen or very nearly did. The most famous story was the “Communications Office” scene - although you do need to know your alcohol to appreciate that clip 🍷🍹🥃🍸🍾🍺🍻!
Felipe, I am so glad you enjoy and watch the "yes minister" series. It will answer your own questions. Why were the Civil service against Brexit? You know Sir humphrey....the last thing that they want is popular power, and disruptring the status quo of the bureaucracy....the civil service has no foreign or ethnic boundaries, they are all the same people, in Whitehall or Brussels
Your analysis is very informative, it’s great that what you say makes people think and question. You are a very good team. Thank you both.
When I watched yes minister after I joined the civil service I realised it was a training video.
Equal Opportunities was actually used as a training video in my Department.
The expression "Corridors of Power" is very apt in English Politics as Most decisions take place in 'casual' conversations at the last minute in the corridors before the meeting! With colleagues seeming to suddenly reverse their voting decisions over an issue that was formerly agreed upon!!!
My favourite comedy. It is a great documentary on how the civil service works.
When I worked for local Councils in London and before that a Nationalised Industry and back to 1971 in THe Civil Service, a mere 50 years ago, we tended to have Committees to decide whether to have a Committee to oversee the actual appropriate Committee's decisions, in triplicate, of course....:)
The guy in the corner is a Private Secretary, which means he has a foot in both camps (Civil service and MP) and thus is constantly torn between loyalty to both of his bosses.
I think you're confusing Principal private secretary (Bernard's job) which is a civil servant with Parliamentary Private Secretary who is an MP who works for a minister or other senior
MP (basically the bottom rung on the ladder to becoming a minister).
@@stevearmstrong9213 Do you work in the Ministry?
You're right. I think we we need a rethink.
@@stevearmstrong9213 What he said.
There is always a top down chain in the service. Sir Humphrey is at the top, as he is head of the service. There are more than 100,000 people in the UK civil serice.
This was such a brilliant comedy. Despite its age now it never dates. The ministers constant battle with his civil service is a constant one, and he seldom gets any victories, so seeing him losing an argument is wonderful. It is quite easy to join the civil service. An entrants exam determines which department you are taken in by. There are various departments which are more important like the home office and the foreign office.
There was another way in. I applied to the actual department (Home Office and MOD) for the lowest technical posts on leaving the Forces. I worked my way from Radio Technician to effectively Higher Scientific Officer over the years before retiring early. Wasn't the route you described for policy wonks who wanted to be "high flyers"?
I think in US many of the civil servants change with the change of President. In UK it is permanent the same people are expected to serve whatever government is in office 'impartially'.The Indian Civil Service was reckoned better than the British civil Service during the empire and the exams for entry much harder.
True then as it is today
Your observations are interesting.
Very enjoyable too hear you sharing your thoughts. Nicely done my lovely Americans xx
Phillipe and Lillian, I am in a unique position to add to your discussion regarding Civil Servants. I worked for the Civil Service, from May 2017 until June 2020 last year. I was an Immigration Caseworker, basically Granting/ Refusing applications. Most of cases in our department were grants as we were dealing with the complient applicants, like yours for instance. However I was working via an agency. In this way they could hire and fire as they pleased. I wouldnt like to guess what percentage of the workforce were agency workers, but could dismiss you/ terminate your contract for the most pedantic of reasons. This happened to me, without going into detail, my infraction was such that there was no way anybody else would be disadvantaged by my actions and in the same way there was no way that I could benefit from it. Add to that the fact that I did not even realise that I had done anything wrong and you get the picture. The Agencies have a total monopoly on the Job Market now, there may be as little as 1% of companies that actually hire themselves. This gives companies and government agencies the huge benefit of being able to rush people in during to peak or crisis times and Immediately lay them off without any accountability when things are back to normal.
In the series Jim Hacker was the cabinet minister in charge of the department for administrative affairs (it's fictional, there's no corresponding real life ministry). Sir Humphrey Appleby was the Permanent Secretary of the department which badically means he's the head civil servant in charge of running things (you can think of Jim as the chairman of the board and Sir Humphrey as the cheif executive) the othe person in the scene is Bernard Wolley who's title is Principal Private Secretary which is analagous to being Jim's P.A. (Although this is an executive rather than a secretarial position. He was, in effect, Sir Humphrey's deputy.
Sir Humphrey takes it to a higher level.
To get in the Civil Service it very much depends on who you know, not what you know. The 'old school tie' network. There's a joke about the Eton Advent Calendar - it's like a regular advent calendar but all the doors are opened by friends of your Father!!
Rather than a civil servant being fired. They tend too be shifted sideways too less important rolls. It creates less scandal . .
The Civil Service employ quite a few people in my home town Swansea. The DVLA and the DWP have large offices there. Civil Service jobs do tend to pay better than the equivalent types of role in the private sector.
They don't tend to pay better, but, historically, they were more reliable and had better pensions. That's not so much the case now. Also , there's a massive difference between the Senior Civil Service (as in Sir Humphrey), and the Civil Service (as in the DVLA in Swansea).
@@NotThatOneThisOne I totally agree with your last point. But when I said they pay better than the equivalent types of role in the private sector, perhaps I should have clarified that I meant in the Swansea area. There was some discussion about changing this a few years back but essentially civil service roles get paid according to bandings but in the private sector of course, salaries and the cost of living vary throughout the U.K. therefore in Swansea where pay is low and the cost of living is low, an entry level call centre agent in the DVLA earns approx 20% more pay than the equivalent entry level call centre job in the area plus better pension and sick benefits etc.
@@andrewjones4568 true, but Swansea is a bit of an exceptional case. The DVLA went there because of the poverty in the area and because of the higher number of lower pay bands where there is an advantage over private sector. If comparing HEO/SEO and above to the private sector, the pay is more comparable, but the responsibilities typically greater.
thanks for another classic video guys.
hi Felipe and Lillian yes this was a classic sitcom and as a lot of them invoved straight actors playing comic roles. .Also distinctive with these british comedies was the theme music by Ronnie Hazelhurst. Re Nigel Hawthorne also worth a look-up is the film "the madness of George the third"
Diane Abbotts’ son worked in one i’ts a big public mess, drug supplies beatings etc. Look it up.
Good Reaction to one of THE greatest comedies of all time :)
Ther are 430,750 civil servants this incude people that work in Job centre and similar jobs
To understand the public service and relation to politicians, look at a company, let's say IT - software: the owners (politicians) set the objectives (the main products: games, operating system/the main political objectives or policies: increase education funding, increase public safety etc.), but they need people who are specialized in a certain domain to advise them about the implications and to actually figure out how to implement the objectives (developers, engineers, graphic designers etc.), and also a lot of other domains that are not part of the main objective, but need to be done anyway (accounting, marketing, legal etc.). The civil servants are kind of like the employees - people with certain technical skills that are supposed to deal with the practical, technical side of implementing policies.
Funny clip and reaction. A series I never watch but perhaps I should.
Also some insightful stuff from Felipe in the post vid discussion about the Civil Service. Good stuff !!
I think Felipe summed up the situation pretty well there.
"Lessons must be learned," is a cliche of committee deliberations.
Someone will correct me if I am wrong but I do believe that Heads of the Civil Service Departments are appointed and may not have been promoted through the ranks.
The distinction between the US and parliamentary civil service is that the charter of the civil service is apolitical.
A good explanation of Civil Service Committees
I hope you know that they are showing full episodes on BBC 2 I think at the moment
I don't think they have a tv.
you need to watch the whole episode sir Humphrey bribes the minister with an honorary doctorate in Law from Bayley but in a completely unrelated matter the minister needs to recheck the honors list which he then realized he's previous position of earn your honors was incorrect.
The other reason for forming a committee to decide on an issue is that the issue is never decided on, therefore it doesn't happen. I think this was Sir Humphrey's tactic. Another alternative is that the outcome of the committee's decision hardly resembles the original proposal hence the saying that 'a camel is a horse designed by a committee'!
Not sure if it's a meritocracy. There are terms such as 'Old boys network' and 'Old school tie'. Very much a 'closed shop'.
"We HAVE to protect our universities! Both of them!" 🤣🤣
13:45 I couldn't agree more!!!!! you never hear any one say these days " I will take the slings and arrows the buck stops here!! I take full responsibility " no, never!!! Just "I am unanimous in that!!!!" I SHOULD STAND!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agreed. It's worse than that since they cancelled local travel services.
You can not even now say "The Bus Stops Here".......
They reckoned this was worryingly close to the real thing.
The guy in the corner is the minister's private secretary and the civil servant is the permanent department civil servant cant be fired regardless of changing governments
Has The Thick of It been reviewed yet? It is known as the modern version of YM.
Yeah, but in America, no politician actually takes responsibility for bad decisions, nothing happens to them, the only possible consequence is that it may affect their re-election chances, but even then people usually vote on party lines, so really nobody is held accountable.
They were given honours because these highly intelligent people could have gone into the private sector & probably achieved far more away from Government. Like the judiciary the Civil Service is independent & passionately so. The Minister make the policy the Civil service carries it out. The Civil Service may well point out any problems & issues arising from this policy as politicians are often short sighted at best & out of their depth at worst, not least because the average minister serves around 18 months in that department!
The Civil service desire for a committee is a stalling tactic designed to bog down the decision making process & ultimately suggest the outcame the Civil Service wants, in the future, while seeming to be addressing a issue. 'Creative inertia' as Sir Humphrey would call it.
Yes Minister was made 17 years prior to the Blair years - Blair's changes were about filling it with Labour supporters just like with the House of Lords.
The Civil Service was always nepotistic and needed reform but Blair's reforms weren't about making it better at its job....They were about making it impossible for the Conservatives to ever rule.
Note that even after 11 years of Tory led Government very little has changed from the Gordon Brown years - This is because the Civil Service, the Media, the Judiciary, the Police, the Teachers Unions etc. are all Heavily Labour led!
If it wasn't for the fact that Labour itself became unelectable in England and lost Scotland to the SNP things would be even worse but even with Boris in power the government is still pushing Labour policies because those are the only ones the Media, the Civil Service, the Judiciary etc. will let through!
You can't have an empire without bureaucracy.
This comedy series is very popular in India.
Thanks guys
Well the main reason the civil service was anti brexit is because its cussed issues for their gravy train. If you stop for 2 minutes to think about it is very very obvious.
He was the ministers private secretary
The Civil Service to get in you have to pass an exam, it is based on merit not family connections or class.
Honours !
Fiction becoming fact! Apparently Thatcher loved the programme. Of course there is a lot of truth in the comedy. I’ve been in both camps and have experienced self interest in both. There is a prevailing view that private enterprise does it better, truth is good management is seen in both. Where you are coming from politically colours how you view it.
Think of the civil service as the head office of a large company but government
I'd love too have a cup of tea or coffee, and a great chat with you both one day.
You'd be such good company.
I hate to tell you, but I believe the US basically invented the committee, it was not traditionally a UK thing. Think about the famous Committee on UnAmerican Activities. In the UK, politicians made policy, debating them in the two houses, and then civil servants carried them out. At some point in the quite recent past, ISTR it was the '90s, the UK Parliament started having these public "select committees" staffed by politicians. I don't remember what the pro argument was, probably something to do with transparency.
"A camel is a horse designed by a committee" which committee design the camel again?
FYI, you said _'...a few months ago, when Farage was making a fuss about the migrants, she was dealing with that...'_
That whole situation is still going on as far as I know.
You missed the u from honours.
Committees keep minutes and lose hours.
I see what you did there, mon ami...
Don't politicians in the US appoint their own staff? I think that's the big difference between the US and the UK when it comes to the Civil Service - The CIvil Service is there already and the Politicians have no say in its makeup whereas in the US when a new President comes in you get a raft of replacements in the top jobs.
Dr Fauci is very highly regarded, although maybe more in the UK than the USA
The civil service, to work there you apply for job, they are advertised, same as in any government, either local authorities, to the top. You would be expected to hold the relevant qualifications. Professor Chris Whitty, as Chief Medical Officer would, of course, be a Medic. Some people are head hunted. Brexit put some under scrutiny. At the end of the day, we the Electorate decide, as you will have witnessed after the referendum. We love our politics, suggest you watch some of the Select Committees to see how things run. The top one is the Liason Committee. They can be hilarious, gives you an idea of the intelligence of some of the MPs. Love watching Dawn Butler, not the sharpest knife in the box.
@RebeccaT yes, she also asked stupid questions to Prof Hoby, Prof N. Ferguson and another, they started taking the micky, in a subtle way. She didn't even noticed. Prof. Whitty has told her I can't answer that, as I don't understand the question
It was exactly like this in the British Army........NOT!! lol
Just watched your comments on Yes Minister and viewed how the cabinet works and how the civil service works ..... It looks like Felipe is well into learning about how our government works :-)..... Hmmmmmm l keep looking at Felipe and l know he likes our monarchy and our kings and Queens and we have so much history in the united kingdom but is Felipe trying to look like royalty ie one of our kings with that beard like George the 5 th or Tzar Nicholas the second ,,, l think the beard works for him ,,, a bit more trimming and your there Felipe ..... I think l've put my head on the block :-( ,,, Sorry not meant to be offensive Lillian :-).... :-)
You have to pass civil service exams and you are promoted on exams also
The committee itself is meant to be a more democratic process where various representative views are gathered and decisions are made rather than the more dictatorial one person decision-making you mentioned Philip.
A leader is only as good as his or her ethics and values. If you have A leader who is not able to bring forward the skills; knowledge and personal inspiration of the group they are leading, you have failed processes. The principle is not to impose your own individualised views but to build on evolution and inclusive but varied and diverse philosophical and intellectual contribution from those around you.
Having said that, I did see a video clip of Sadik Khan (the Mayor of London) and one of their committee meetings in which a man was asking about the imposition of male language on female identity in relation to womanhood. E.g., the banning of the word breast; mother and breastfeeding in the trans-experience. To activist women objected saying he was using abusive language I I just asking the question and because two women objected, his points were shut down. No tolerance of different view in exploring social concerns. The incredible thing is that male descriptions are being imposed on female identity by biological males who want to identify as a woman. This is without consent of women themselves.
So, committees don't always act on an inclusive and diverse basis particularly nowadays they seem to exclude diverse thinking and only want one directional thought. Are quite deliberate of course in terms of The imposition of Marxist ideology is within institutions.
Committees are an opportunity to question why the decision was taken, what information was provided to make that decision. You will have to go to your Local Authorities to get a flavour, they are open to the public. Not many, members of the public attend, unless its controversial, public not allowed to participate in discussion. Generally boring. Read their minutes on line.
What is a camel?
A horse, made by a committee.
Yes Minister was made during the Thatcher years, don't try to blame Blair for British scepticism of the civil service!
Very enjoyable but .......... "honors" ?
yes minister goes back to the thatcher era.
Patel is shaking up the civil service in her department, I just hope she follows through on her promises, I wouldn't bet on it
They are doing their utmost to stop her, sack all the Humphries.
Oh Whitehall needs a shake up but that person is there solely because she’s professed loyalty to Boris. Not that I doubt for a second that either of them would dump the other if it was to their advantage.
Blair politicised the civil service and F&@££)d it up
The Tories were forced by public opinion on the 2016 Brexit referendum to agree to leaving the EU. The whole political class did not want to leave. Since then I think we have seen politicians using Covid to show the people who is boss, with a tinge of revenge. IMO.
If this is near the truth the civil service is frightening . The common belief is that this "comedy" is in fact close to the truth.
Eton, oxford, cambridge, harrow, public schools, made up of civil servants.
*Red Tape 101*
Honourable James Hacker mp is the mimister for Admimistave affairs ( fictious department. ) Sir Humphry Appleby is the permanent secratarty to the dept. Think jr to the US Secratary. Such as a director. The other one is the permanent private secratary to the Minister. He amindisters to the Minister's schedule, correspondece and explaining ( yeah right) what the rules and laws the department has to operate under.
As for qualifying for the civil service, go to the right schools. Take the right courses. Excell in them. Get into Oxford and Cambridge. Show that you have the right breeding so to speak, that you are top of your class. Soundness above all else. Then you can apply and take the exams. If accepted you can join. Work from a lowly position out in the wikderness and perhaps eventually rise up to the mighty ranks of #11 Downing St. The HQ of the cabinet and their immediate civil service. Humphrey had been there near 30 years at that point. Served 11 differrent governments
We don't "whinge".
You mean like you’re not whinging right now?
@@ThePostmodernFamily Moi?
@@ThePostmodernFamily It might be spelled "whingeing". There are few words where we have the delicious pleasure of three contiguous vowels.
Us Brits Live to Moan & Moan to Live ??
Lots of blame free society members everywhere.
Civil servants. 🙄
All i can say you have Donald Trump at the top down , and that does not work either !!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Civil Service is where people go when they can't get a proper job.
Or, in my case, a cushy job after I turned down the opportunity to take Articles and join a Chartered Accountancy firm in Moorgate, City Of London in 1971 :)
having a go at the Civil Service!!!!! Unsubscribed ;)
That oriental looking woman is strange.
Sorry guys! Not one of your best. Please get back to some real comedy, ie- Jimmy Carr, Peter Kay, the pub landlord or the Fast show. Thanks 👍
Au Contraire. As someone who has loved British comedies and sitcoms since " The Rag Trade" in 1961, just the odd 60 years ago, I would Yes, Minister and Yes, Prime Minister is, easily, in my Top One.....just ahead of Blackadder, Peter Kay, Tim Vine, Lee Mack, Fawlty Towers, The Thick of It , The Office,Extras and especially Alan Partridge in his various forms :)