I was taught German, English, Spanish and Latin in High School in Denmark. Now they've decided to duumb down the populace because an informed populace might start asking pesky questions.
spanish is also big in the UK because they need it to order drinks and food when they invade the spanish beaches during holiday season and to argue with the local police... also german to argue with the german tourists over the pool loungers...
Latin is a status symbol language in the UK. If spoken it identifies you as someone who was probably privately educated , which of course Sir Humphrey most certainly was.
Latin was taught in most grammar schools, whether private or state run. Some also taught ancient greek. Entrance to a state-run grammar school was through a selection examination (written test) taken by all pupils at the age of 11, known as the 11 plus. Pupils who were unsuccessful were sent to secondary modern schools where latin was not on the curiculum. Most areas in the UK no longer have state-run grammar schools, all children now being sent to non-selective mixed ability schools. I doubt whether many teach latin. Knowledge of latin used to be a requirement for anyone studying medicine and for entry as a student to Oxford and Cambridge Universities until 1960.
I was born in 1960. Latin was taught at schools intended for academically inclined children but it was not taught in place of a foreign language but in addition to, presumably on the basis of it being a dead language. The standard foreign language studied was French although no doubt some schools offered alternatives such as German or Spanish. We had to study arithmetic as electronic calculators were not available until I was in my early teens at which point they were initially horrendously expensive. I was never allowed to use a calculator in any examination in any subject. .
@Doggers1404 did latin but not done very well, not really explained that well and a lot to learn, english has a number of latin phrases , and it was the language of the church (unless one was orthodox) The again our high school at 13 complained the middle schools were not teaching the right kind of things - and we did French from age 9, if we had Latin might have been fun
I did Latin for a few years in the 1960's and hated it. It was useful in mediaeval times when all educated people in Europe spoke it but not today, as nobody speaks Latin, and English is now the de facto lingua franca.
@@highpath4776 May I ask how you got on with French at that age. Did you achieve some kind of lasting fluency? I know English is now being taught as a foreign language in many European countries right from year one.
Eunuchs came in a couple of types. Some of them, as you say, had their testicles removed (you can't really circumcise the testicles, either you take everything off or not, whereas circumcision just takes the foreskin away) but there were others (for some reason highly prized by the people who bought them) who had everything removed and actually had to pee using a tube or everything went everywhere, as it were. None were done as babies I'm afraid but all as boys before puberty. Because of the shock, blood loss and potential infections many of those poor kids died but the ones that survived were worth so much on the slave market that it was worth it - from the point of view of the people who did it at least. Some families actually put their kids forward for it, certainly under the Byzantine Empire, because eunuchs were often entrusted with high office (the theory was that, having no children or sexual distractions, they would devote themselves to their duty and wouldn't try to turn their position into an hereditary one by promoting their sons. Of course, many of them had nephews instead...) John the Orphanotrophos or Narses are good examples of just how powerful these guys could become.
Castration could be done at any age. Osmin, the eunech character in Mozart's opera, "Il Seraglio" is cast as a deep bass - indicating that he had reached manhood before the operation was performed. I believe all male slaves were castrated in mediterranean North Africa.
About learning languages at school. My eldest did five years of Mandarin and is now fluent ( went to uni). The school also offered French/German/Spanish/Italian/Russian/Japanese. It has recently added Arabic. When I was at school it was either French or German...also did two years of Latin.
Sorry to inform you but often the eunuchs had everything removed and they weren't normally children. It was often done when they were in their late teens or early 20's. They wanted to make sure that there was no doubt about things! I remember being shown a chair that they would sit in that had a hole in for the operation. I saw it when I went round the Forbidden City in Beijing, made me think perhaps my job wasn't as bad as I thought it was!!! Latin is only generally taught in private schools or state schools that want to be posh. Either way the number of pupils taking the exam has been falling for years.
That's true. I say below that historically all eunuchs were castrated before puberty but I was talking about Europe or the Levant. You are right, it worked differently in China.
Latin was mainly taught pre1970's in Grammar Schools (which were the highest grade of high schools before the comprehensive system was introduced). French has always been taught at high schools, with a choice of another language (mainly German or Spanish) at a later date. In past times French had been used internationally as the diplomatic language.
Sir Humphrey is the PERSONIFICATION OF THE BRITISH CIVIL SERVICE. Much Smarter and than those around him, especially the Minister (BOSS)..Mr HACKER. Brilliant British Comedy
In Blighty, in state-run, comprehensive school in the 1970s/1980s, I was taught French from age 11 to age 16, plus a second (third ?) language from 12 to 16. All the bright kids that were excellent at English and French chose German. The kids struggling with English were made to do Latin and those struggling with French were made to do Spanish. It was a disaster. The Spanish students spoke and wrote French in their Spanish exams, and Spanish in their French exams. Whilst the Latin students larked about for why learn a language no one speaks. Only in later life did I discover Latin is spoken, as modern day Romansch in south-eastern Switzerland, so it was not quite as pointless as we thought. Having stopped French age 16, and not travelled to France till 24, I had forgotten most of what I learned. Not that I ever found an use for learning "I have an uncle named Pierre, and he has a dog named Rover" because I have no such uncle, and he does not have a dog either.
This show was filmed in the 80s. Pocket calculators were still a very recent innovation. Less than 10 years earlier they didn't exist and people had to know how to do sums longhand because there wasn't really an alternative.
Went to a State Secondary school in the U.K. (late 1980’s),French was mandatory aged 11-14 for everyone, then could drop or keep French for aged 15-16 (your ‘options!). For the top set (most clever class) could also do German as an optional language along with French (so took more exams than the average people in the school). Latin was for those in Private education or Grammar Schools. TBF unless exceptional or a language geek 11 years is too old to start learning a second language, in Europe they start learning English as a second language at about 6-7 so the skills develop along side learning your own language which is a much better way IMO
Because I was there, I can state, categorically, that it is absolutely correct to say that the school leaving age was raised to 16, in order to hold down the unemployment figures.
Humphrey: "What's three thousand, nine hundred and forty seven divided by seventy three?" Me: "I have dyscalculia. Don't ask me something that will obviously be the cause of great suffering and cruelty! Furthermore, do that again and I shall be forced to change all the locks . . . again!"
@@stirlingmoss4621 Yes, expecially in Italy, where the last "castrato" in the Vatican church choir died in the early 20th Century. Operatic castrati were practically rock stars in their 18th Century heyday, making huge sums of money. Their powerful soprano/alto voices were highly sought-after by famous composers like Handel and Mozart.
I was born in 1951, and studied Latin at school for two years. I then dropped it in favour of economics. However, when it came to applying to university, this turned out to have been a mistake: I wanted to read history but all the decent universities then required people applying for arts subjects to have Latin ‘O’ Level. I ended up by studying International Relations at UCL.
It was common to castrate young boys in Italy from the 17th century onward so they maintained a high singing voice so they could attain a career in opera or religious choirs. These castrati were very popular and the last known one died in 1922 The Imperial Chinese civil service included many eunuchs - they would present the jars with their pickled bits in at interviews for new positions - I suppose the thinking behind it was that without families or "urges" they could focus more on intellectual and career goals.
I was educated in Britain in the 1970s I was eleven in 1973 and went to grammar school and my first lesson was Latin (The grammar part of the school name was for learning Latin and Greek grammar BTW) When I was at school over fifty years ago the basic offering of foreign languages was French and if you went to grammar school you did Latin. I was ultimately in the natural sciences stream at school so I got the option of continuing Latin or picking up German. The Classics stream picked up Greek and the modern languages stream picked up German along with keeping Latin. I ended up for the exams studying 300 lines of Virgil's poetry and 20 chapters of Caesar's Gallic Wars which I enjoyed and was a great experience. In the sixth form - the equivalent to the last two years of High School I focused on Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry and did an optional studies course in Russian and we even got to read som Chekhov short stories as some in the group went on to study for higher qualifications in Russian. We also had optional German, Spanish and a host of other subjects in the sixth form.
Uk school early 80s. We studied English Language and as a separate course English Literature. We were also taught Latin and French. Some were offered in addition either German or Spanish. Age 11 to 16..
I learned Latin from the age of 8, and had to pass tests in the language in order to get to a prestigious school at the age of 12. I also learned French and German through to 16. Most children in the UK don't learn Latin, these days, but I found it very useful in my deeper study of other languages, and I still call upon it today.
I went to a fairly large high school (3000+ kids). Nearly everyone had to do French but the top classes took a second language in Yr 8. We had choices of German, Spanish, Russian or Latin (I took Latin - half the course was history) - you could also take Greek in Yrs 12 and 13. It became clear that the writers of Dr Who (The Fires of Pompeii) had also done the same course as nearly all the names used in the episode corresponded to those we had been taught.
I did some quick checking - and this is all pretty rough and ready, with lots of assumptions. But based on some rough figures (assuming that pretty much everyone takes Maths and English - which they won't, but it a reasonable baseline) - for GCSE (taken around age 16) in England up to 2018 (the first figures I could find easily) - around 25% of students took French, 13% took Spanish, 10% took German and about 1.5% took Latin - which is actually more than I anticiapted - just less than 10,000 pupils.
I learned Latin for 3 years and French for 5 years. I did not go to a private school. Latin was taught as it was recognised that it is the foundation of many languages and remains in use in law and medicine.
left school in 95 and we had french or german. no spanish. even though 95% of students had been to spain but never been to france or germany. i think latin was only taught in grammar or private schools.
I was fortunate enough to go to go to a Primary School (ages 5-12) where it was compulsary to take, on top of English, introductory levels of French, German, Latin and Classical Greek. Why? It was to give the students CHOICE of later continuing at Secondary School (High School) as separate subjects OR simply, to better understand our main language, English. English has absorbed so many words from German, French and Latin (plus Latin is the language of many branches of Science eg Botany, Astronomy, Medicine). Oh, also other languages such as Norse, Celtic. So, if you are to better understand origins of words, you really need a background in those languages. When I applied for a particular Secondary School, my parents and I were interviewed personally by the Headmaster who conducted part of the interview in French and also switched to Latin and German. (I think he spoke about 6 languages) It was also explained that the school was an academic school and, other than for keeping fit and healthy (healthy body, healthy mind), sports were NOT a major focus. Nor were Trades (eg Woodworking class, metal shop etc) and that if I were interested in those pursuits then perhaps a different school should be sort. Very blunt! lol. He also said that their school produced Doctors, Accountants, Engineers, Scientists, University Professors, Diplomats, Politicians and Teachers. All aimed at academic and financial success. He re-iterated that the focus was on academic success. All during school I thought I was "average" at best, only ranked about half-way in the class. What hadn't dawned on me was that most of the students had been duxes of their various primary schools! Our pass rates in National exams were around 98%. It was only after University that I began to realise the opportunities that the schooling I had, had provided in everyday life.
In Czechia, latin is needed for medicine and law, so they have those. But in here (this series) - it was part of classical education, in all countries - rhetorics, classical greek, classcal latil, philosophy, et c.
I went to a Grammer school in the UK during the 1970's. We learned French, German and Latin until I was 14 and the time came to choose the subjects I wanted to take at 'O' level (national exam taken at 16). I dropped all my languages, except English, as I wasn't very good at them. The thing is that, despite how bad I was with languages, the knowledge I gained has helped me to at least get the gist of a lot of short written notices when in Europe as most languages are either members of the Romance (like French) or Germanic language families and I can often recognise the roots of a word.
@@allanpalmer3143 Up until the late 1970's we had selective education in my county. You took an exam at age 11. If you passed it you went to a Grammar School where the subjects taught were primarily academic and meant to prepare you for university and a profession. If you failed you went to a Secondary Modern School, which taught vocational subjects to train you up to enter a trade.
Latin is taught because it is used in medicine universally. All medicine had latin names and therefore doctors in all countries knew what the medicine was.
I was taught Latin and French at school, then when we were a little older we could ALSO learn Russian or German. Maths involved using slide-rules and trigonometry logarithm tables. Calculators were rudimentary at that time and, in any case, were considered cheating.
And of course this transfer from the 'town hall' or rather the LEAs - local education authorities actually came to pass. The National Currciulum (all schools had to follow it nationally) was introduced by the Education Reform Act of 1988. Further money for schools now mainly comes from the government directly to individual schools, or Academies as they are called now, by passing the LEA and their old control of the money.
Latin was a required course at my high school for the first two years, and an option thereafter. We started French in Junior school (age 7-11) at the age of 9 or 10, and this was also a required language in high school up until age 15-16. There was an option to ADD German at age 13 or so if your program was going to be humanities (liberal arts)-based but not if you wanted to study chemistry, physics and biology. Spanish was an option as a course in 6th form (age 16-18). The first opportunity to stop Latin was at age 14 when you had to basically choose a scientific or humanities-based set of options for your General Certificate of Education "O-Level" exams. (I am showing my age here as these became GCSE exams sometime later). Choices like these and what courses were required differed quite a lot depending upon the kind of high-school you attended. I entered high school at the age of 11 in 1972. In those days there was an national examination called the "11 plus" which basically filtered out the top 10%-20% of academically proficient kids and sent them to "Grammar Schools". These schools often modelled much of their curriculum, attitude and rules on those of a British Public School, though most did not provide live-in accomodation as do most Public Schools. Much more emphasis was placed on academic achievement than sports or vocationally-based "skills" learning. After two years of a set curriculum where all students had to study English, French, Latin, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Maths, History, Geography, Art, Design & Technology and music, the students would be "streamed" into groups where your abilities (as measured by examination and course work) placed you in a group which added German as a Language but removed a science lesson each week, or one where you dropped Latin and kept the additional science lesson, one where you dropped French and studied Economics instead, or a group which dropped French and also aimed you at a slightly less onerous set of exams called CSEs or Certificate of Secondary Education. These were harder to fail, but carried less weight with University Entrance Boards and, to a lesser extent, with employers. At the end of that third year you were required to pick options for your examinations, usually 8 or 9 subjects. You HAD to do English language, English literature, maths, as a basis, but depending upon your desires and (mostly) your abilities, you could take additional maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, (or Combined Science if you were looking towards a humaities-based program), French, German, Latin, History, Geography, Art, D & T, Music, Economics. As an example I took English lang., English lit., French, Maths, Additional Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and History. I had wanted to take Music instead of History but the timetable did not allow that. After the results of these exams, you could leave school, go to a technical college, start work or enter the 6th Form where you had to choose three (or if you were very lucky, four) subjects for "A-Levels" (Advanced General Certificate of Education). If you intended to apply to a prestige university (effectively Oxford or Cambridge) you could do "S-Levels" as well, either at the same time or optionally staying at school for another year. I did Chemistry, Physics and Maths. I am sure all this has changed radically now, but for details you would need to ask for comments from the younger generation... I'm 61! Keep up the good work please!
I attended a grammar school (exam entry) in the early 70's. A Foreign language was mandatory for the full 5 years, it was usually French. But it could be German. Latin was required for the first two years, but you could take it all the way and get a qualification.
When I was at school Latin wasn't an option - the requirement was to do a "Modern foreign language". I think the biggest one was french, probably also Spanish and German, I think I remember there was also Urdu and/or Hindi.
Languages: before I went in the British Army I did French and German at school, my Mother taught me Latin because that is the basis of French and Italian, and my grandfather interested me in Ancient Greek because he was a botanist and before that a legal secretary. For fun I have done Old Norse because that is still spoken in North Yorkshire and the knock on of that is modern Danish. In terms of usefulness for employment my other grandfather taught me forge work from age 11, basic quarrying and basic stone carving from age 13. At 16 I did a Saturday job working on a market stall and frankly I learned more about mental arithmetic and negotiation and running a small business than I ever did in school. British schools seem to be created to channel the brightest into university, while ignoring the needs of those who are not going to the 'Halls of Academe'.
Latin is still taught is a few state schools, but rarely now. Up until the 1970s some universities here still asked for it in applicants for some science degrees, such as medicine or pharmacy. Traditionally French was the second language most commonly taught in the UK, but in recent decades Spanish and German have become very popular too. My state school also offered Dutch and Russian along with French, German, Latin and Greek in the 1970s! Many Scottish schools offer Scots Gaelic as well as French, German and Spanish, with some Scots schools in Gaelic speaking areas teaching all subjects in Gaelic. In Wales, Welsh is also the first language in some areas, so English becomes the second language, but in English speaking areas of Wales, Welsh is widely taught, even to the under 11s. I should add that some posh private schools (confusingly called 'Public Schools' here) in the UK taught Latin and Greek rather more than in state schools. Humphrey may be just showing off his Public School background or may have studied Classics at university - quite a popular choice for senior civil servants back in the day, probably less so nowadays.
When I was at school, French was a core subject and one of the GCSEs you had to do. German was an additional option later. Latin is normally only taught in private schools. I believe they also have Mandarin as an option now.
Exactly the same at my school. French was forced upon us for some unknown reason. I failed the exam miserably. I've met very few French people and they all spoke English. HOWEVER, some 40 years after leaving school I went to Strasbourg for the day and got lost. I was able to ask a very nice lady (in French) 'Excuse me. Where is the station?' She gave me directions and I understood them. I walked away thinking 'Oh God! All those years ago I was listening after all!' I think learning Mandarin is very sensible considering the way the world is going...
@@jamesbuckingham.2935 I think it was Helmut Kohl (German Chancellor) who said, "If you want to buy from me, by all means speak English but if you want to sell to me, you'd better speak German."
@@stevenlagoe7808 As a tourist you need to be able to ask for directions and understand the answer, order food which usually only involves reading off the menu and adding the equivalent of 'please' at the end. Being able to ask for the bill also comes in handy. The problem is that if you've rehearsed certain phrases and got quite good at saying them, the locals will assume you are a fluent speaker and go on and on way beyond your level of comprehension.😀
I took Latin, French and German at high school. Some schools had other languages such as Russian, Chinese and Spanish. Spanish is useful to a lot of Brits as a lot of us holiday in Spain, the Balearics, Tenerife and the Canaries, so we pick some phrases up as we do in Greece, Turkey, Italy, Bulgaria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Morroco. Not to mention any other European or Scandinavian countries as well. Latin is the base of many languages and they have similar words in common if spelt and pronounced differently. So if you've done Latin you can figure it out.
The main languages taught are French, German and Spanish. I had to do French and German for 5 years. Latin was only available for very specialised studies
Today, Latin is mainly used in sayings like carpe diem, bona fide etc or for body parts - clavicle, femur etc or by Roman Catholics at Latin mass. As a classroom subject, it’s taught mainly in private schools. Most British schools offer the choice of French, German & Spanish & increasingly Mandarin Chinese (around 13%). The education system in the UK needs reform from top to bottom for the modern era but as cabinet ministers only last about 18 months (if that), there’s no movement on this medium to long term situation.
In the UK it was either Spanish or French during high school, at least it was when I was in school, 15 odd years ago. You had the option to do another language.
In my school (UK bog standard comprehensive school - public school to Americans - 10 years ago) the languages on offer were French or German. No Spanish or Latin course at all. I chose German, and very happy that I did so. I can still speak enough German to get me around in Germany, and German was so much easier than French. With German you can actually pronounce the words as they are written once you know the rules. The French stick 11 vowels in one word and pronounce it monosyllabically.
Latin is usually taught in private/public schools. In State schools the language learnt was French, but then it seemed to change to Spanish and sometimes German. Remember, many people visit Spain for the annual holiday/vacation.
In the uk Spanish, French, German etc are known as Modern Languages. Living next door to Europe these languages are important. Latin is needed for those who work in the fields of Science, Medicine, Classics, Language and Law
In my high school the only language option was French, but I went to one of the worst funded schools in London. A lot of schools at the time offered a choice of two languages, but French was pretty universal. The school has improved a lot now that it's merged with some of the smaller schools in the area, and a lot of the teachers from those schools were kept. My friend's son goes there, and he's been doing French and Italian for the past two years. He starts Year 9 in the fall, and had the option of adding either Dutch or German, and opted for Dutch. The school also runs a Welsh club after school.
Eunuchs were also employed at the court of the Chinese emperor. As young boys, they had both testicles and penis removed. Indeed, many died as a result of infections. As for arithmetic, I taught physics and kids could not wrap their heads around the fact that I could do calculations without resorting to a calculator.
I went to a comprehensive school in the UK ( equivalent to a US public school) and we were taught either French or German. There were 9 classes in my year and half were taught french the other half German. No Latin.
Eunuchs were castrated men (castrated as young boys, usually) and they could be used to guard harems as you said, but in some civilisations (most famously, but not exclusively, Imperial China) they also held important places at court. Hence, they had "responsibility without power": they could attend to matters of state, but they couldn't necessarily enforce it since they didn't have ultimate say and neither could they sire children the way the emperior could. Sir Humphrey's implication of comparing Mr Hacker to a eunuch is obvious for other reasons.
In Britain in Secondary (High) School, in my day - I don't know what it's like now - the first foreign language was French, the second one German. For the top classes, Latin was in addition to this. It is a very bad idea to start learning a foreign language at 12 - it should be started in Primary school.
A point also about the harem. The word harem simply means women, plural of herma, woman. Islamic architecture has separate areas for male and female members of the household. Wives, sisters, daughters, aunts and cousins and grandma, and female visitors if there are any. In most households, they only segregate when they have company. Yes, in the Byzantine period there probably were a few households with multiple wives and concubines, but the same word also describes a large extended family. The western connotations of the word aren't necessarily correct, aren't helpful, and may even be bordering on racist.
During my years in teaching, it came as a great shock to me to realise that school-leavers entering further education for vocational studies were unable to construct a sentence from points of grammar and punctuation. I suspect this poor level of literacy still goes on. It's interesting to note that some universities now provide remedial English classes for their students.
I went to a state comprehensive school in Wales in the 1970s/80s, and took Welsh, French and Latin. My school also offered German but, as it didn't fit with the other subjects on my timetable, I ended up teaching myself German instead.
Connor, it's a shame that Americans don't learn English? Mind you, today many English are clueless too! I learnt French from 7 to 18 years and German from 15 to 17. I only did German because our teacher looked like, Eva Ruber Steir. Take a look? We could opt for Latin later on but it wasn't compulsory as I only went to a Grammar School.
Chinese Imperial Eunuchs were often young men, not children, who had often already fathered some children; if they survived the operation they invariably retained their parts and pieces in jars that they insisted were buried with them to signify they were whole men in death, if not in life.
Latin is one of the most important languages because it is the bedrock of scientific taxonomy. It's a universal language free from any adulteration (English V American English for eg) Every species on the plantet is described and named in latin for this reason. It is an absolute. As a spoken language however, it is of course redundant, but this does not detract from its importance. In science, terminology has direct links to the origins and meaning of words which all of us take for granted today. For example: Helios & Helianthus is the latin name for Sunflowers, orginating from the Greek god of the sun. I learnt latin at school, but it had no relevance until I chose botanical science & zoology as my career. Other scinces follow the same language origins.
I learnt English Latin and Ancient Greek ... on the ground that as we invaded all our allies and enemies they ought to know English already. Except Rome and Ancient Greece.
Surely people have to learn Latin, or how could you communicate with those in Latin America? And yes, I learnt Latin for 6 years during my secondary school time, as well as ancient Greek. This was in the 1980s and not in the UK
Latin is the basis of many words commonly in use today. Sometimes you can work out the meaning of a word if you took Latin at school. Unfortunately I didn't!
The point of the 3-Rs is to teach you to think, not use a smart phone or calculator. With my daughter's generation, the teachers added "estimating" so that obviously mistaken calculator results weren't accepted at face value, unless you are an economist of course ;-( In my childhood, we had the last Latin teacher in the entire school district, but we were a top notch HS. As unusual HS languages go, Russian was in favor when I was in HS, later it was Chinese. There was a brief revival of Latin at Preppy HSs in the 80s, just like plaid skirts and saddle shoes.
Since virtually everyone in the UK spends their holidays in Spain (the UK weather is crap and Spain is the total opposite) and virtually everyone in the US spends their holidays in the US, I'd argue that Spanish is even more important for Britons to learn
Everyone should learn how to do maths the "normal" long way, as with the manufactured "energy crisis" going on, there may be no more electricity to go around to charge your phone to do the math let alone all the electric cars the monsters want us to have! Commifornia is already in an energy crisis and asking people not to charge their cars too often! lol Always best to have something to fall back on.
Typical secondary schools in my day offered French and German as standard. My son was offered a choice between French and Spanish. Latin & Classical Greek weren't offered as standard.
The general idea of teaching/learning Latin was 2 fold. At the time many/most well educated people would know/understand Latin, it was the language you could resort to when you had no other common language, German was often used for Math/Maths this use has been overtaken by English. The other use is to understand grammar. The basic reason it is still useful to have some arithmetic even when calculator are common and reliable (which they weren't at this time) is the ability to estimate the answer. It means you can have some idea, something is not right, when the result is an order of magnitude too big or small. Or the calculator uses reverse Polish notation.
there was mainly two ways to become a eunuch - they could either have just their testicles removed or the whole package removed depending upon the country and culture and their was a 3rd variation in which everything was left intact but they just crushed the testicles making them useless and infertile
Latin and greek as traditionally taught in British schools are ancient languages, dating from the ancient civilisations of Greece and Rome. They are also supposed to give you some knowledge of classical history and literature. Hence, Sir Humphrey and, in real life, Eton-educated politicians such as Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, are able to come out with apt quotations from classical authors. Medieval latin as used by the Roman church after the classical period was never not part of the curiculum. It is a mistake to imagine that the classical languages of latin and greek were ever taught as alternatives to modern languages: they were/are separate and alongside.
I used to learn French back in the day. I hated it so much, I never used to try to learn it. Just wasn’t interested. I think when you have a child at school you need to do subjects they are interested in, something to grab their passion and interest. Get the most out of them. But stay with the 3 R’s Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.
If you had kept your mouth shut, we might have thought you were clever. One of Mark Twain's sayings was exactly the same, but said slightly differently. Twain said, Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're a fool, than open it and remove all doubt. In the UK Latin is taught mostly in Public Schools (what the US calls Private schools) and is a prerequisite subject for anyone wanting to follow a medical career.
I was taught German, English, Spanish and Latin in High School in Denmark. Now they've decided to duumb down the populace because an informed populace might start asking pesky questions.
If you can understand Danish you can probably learn anything!
spanish is also big in the UK because they need it to order drinks and food when they invade the spanish beaches during holiday season and to argue with the local police... also german to argue with the german tourists over the pool loungers...
Latin is a status symbol language in the UK. If spoken it identifies you as someone who was probably privately educated , which of course Sir Humphrey most certainly was.
I started to learn it in a Grammar school in the 60's. But, I was one of the few true working class students, so your point stands.
I took Latin from 11 to 18 at grammar school. I also did 2 separate Latin courses at university - Classical and medieval.
@@gillianrimmer7733 Funnily enough most Italian pupils absolutely detest Latin. I'm not sure it's taught in their schools any longer.
Latin was taught in most grammar schools, whether private or state run. Some also taught ancient greek. Entrance to a state-run grammar school was through a selection examination (written test) taken by all pupils at the age of 11, known as the 11 plus. Pupils who were unsuccessful were sent to secondary modern schools where latin was not on the curiculum.
Most areas in the UK no longer have state-run grammar schools, all children now being sent to non-selective mixed ability schools. I doubt whether many teach latin.
Knowledge of latin used to be a requirement for anyone studying medicine and for entry as a student to Oxford and Cambridge Universities until 1960.
Did Latin but not in a private school.
You should look up the scene where Humphrey loses access to the building.
I was born in 1960. Latin was taught at schools intended for academically inclined children but it was not taught in place of a foreign language but in addition to, presumably on the basis of it being a dead language. The standard foreign language studied was French although no doubt some schools offered alternatives such as German or Spanish.
We had to study arithmetic as electronic calculators were not available until I was in my early teens at which point they were initially horrendously expensive. I was never allowed to use a calculator in any examination in any subject. .
@Doggers1404 did latin but not done very well, not really explained that well and a lot to learn, english has a number of latin phrases , and it was the language of the church (unless one was orthodox) The again our high school at 13 complained the middle schools were not teaching the right kind of things - and we did French from age 9, if we had Latin might have been fun
No calculators, but was handy with a slide rule. last used one in the late 80's, could be quicker than a calculator.
I did Latin for a few years in the 1960's and hated it. It was useful in mediaeval times when all educated people in Europe spoke it but not today, as nobody speaks Latin, and English is now the de facto lingua franca.
@@Alan_Clark Yes, I loathed Latin, and had a mental block - it just wouldn't penetrate my skull. Loved French, and found it easy.
@@highpath4776 May I ask how you got on with French at that age. Did you achieve some kind of lasting fluency? I know English is now being taught as a foreign language in many European countries right from year one.
Eunuchs came in a couple of types. Some of them, as you say, had their testicles removed (you can't really circumcise the testicles, either you take everything off or not, whereas circumcision just takes the foreskin away) but there were others (for some reason highly prized by the people who bought them) who had everything removed and actually had to pee using a tube or everything went everywhere, as it were. None were done as babies I'm afraid but all as boys before puberty. Because of the shock, blood loss and potential infections many of those poor kids died but the ones that survived were worth so much on the slave market that it was worth it - from the point of view of the people who did it at least. Some families actually put their kids forward for it, certainly under the Byzantine Empire, because eunuchs were often entrusted with high office (the theory was that, having no children or sexual distractions, they would devote themselves to their duty and wouldn't try to turn their position into an hereditary one by promoting their sons. Of course, many of them had nephews instead...) John the Orphanotrophos or Narses are good examples of just how powerful these guys could become.
It was also done to preserve a boy's youthful soprano, sometimes for the slave market again, but also for religious reasons.
@@kayew5492 Good point - you are quite right. Although I don't think that became a big thing until the 1500's - could be wrong though!
@@paulcollins5423 ....I did hesitate at reading 'a big thing', but I'm afraid I'm being facetious. However, I do get your point (as it were).
@@kayew5492 Aled Jones must have been quaking in his boots as he approached puberty.
Castration could be done at any age. Osmin, the eunech character in Mozart's opera, "Il Seraglio" is cast as a deep bass - indicating that he had reached manhood before the operation was performed.
I believe all male slaves were castrated in mediterranean North Africa.
About learning languages at school. My eldest did five years of Mandarin and is now fluent ( went to uni). The school also offered French/German/Spanish/Italian/Russian/Japanese. It has recently added Arabic. When I was at school it was either French or German...also did two years of Latin.
How many Romans?
Sorry to inform you but often the eunuchs had everything removed and they weren't normally children. It was often done when they were in their late teens or early 20's. They wanted to make sure that there was no doubt about things! I remember being shown a chair that they would sit in that had a hole in for the operation. I saw it when I went round the Forbidden City in Beijing, made me think perhaps my job wasn't as bad as I thought it was!!!
Latin is only generally taught in private schools or state schools that want to be posh. Either way the number of pupils taking the exam has been falling for years.
That's true. I say below that historically all eunuchs were castrated before puberty but I was talking about Europe or the Levant. You are right, it worked differently in China.
Latin was mainly taught pre1970's in Grammar Schools (which were the highest grade of high schools before the comprehensive system was introduced). French has always been taught at high schools, with a choice of another language (mainly German or Spanish) at a later date. In past times French had been used internationally as the diplomatic language.
Sir Humphrey is the PERSONIFICATION OF THE BRITISH CIVIL SERVICE. Much Smarter and than those around him, especially the Minister (BOSS)..Mr HACKER. Brilliant British Comedy
Humphreys knew where the power lay. Ministers come. and go but civil servants stay and stay and stay.
In Blighty, in state-run, comprehensive school in the 1970s/1980s, I was taught French from age 11 to age 16, plus a second (third ?) language from 12 to 16. All the bright kids that were excellent at English and French chose German. The kids struggling with English were made to do Latin and those struggling with French were made to do Spanish. It was a disaster. The Spanish students spoke and wrote French in their Spanish exams, and Spanish in their French exams. Whilst the Latin students larked about for why learn a language no one speaks. Only in later life did I discover Latin is spoken, as modern day Romansch in south-eastern Switzerland, so it was not quite as pointless as we thought. Having stopped French age 16, and not travelled to France till 24, I had forgotten most of what I learned. Not that I ever found an use for learning "I have an uncle named Pierre, and he has a dog named Rover" because I have no such uncle, and he does not have a dog either.
This show was filmed in the 80s. Pocket calculators were still a very recent innovation. Less than 10 years earlier they didn't exist and people had to know how to do sums longhand because there wasn't really an alternative.
Went to a State Secondary school in the U.K. (late 1980’s),French was mandatory aged 11-14 for everyone, then could drop or keep French for aged 15-16 (your ‘options!). For the top set (most clever class) could also do German as an optional language along with French (so took more exams than the average people in the school). Latin was for those in Private education or Grammar Schools. TBF unless exceptional or a language geek 11 years is too old to start learning a second language, in Europe they start learning English as a second language at about 6-7 so the skills develop along side learning your own language which is a much better way IMO
Because I was there, I can state, categorically, that it is absolutely correct to say that the school leaving age was raised to 16, in order to hold down the unemployment figures.
Connor you promised NOT to interrupt....I would have pressed like if you had not continually interrupted after promising not to...
Then go and get a job? Never having worked shouldn't be worn as a badge of honour..
Humphrey: "What's three thousand, nine hundred and forty seven divided by seventy three?"
Me: "I have dyscalculia. Don't ask me something that will obviously be the cause of great suffering and cruelty! Furthermore, do that again and I shall be forced to change all the locks . . . again!"
Castration, or orchidectomy as well as harem attendents they were also done to preserve their singing voice.
that was the Catholic Church
@@stirlingmoss4621 Yes, expecially in Italy, where the last "castrato" in the Vatican church choir died in the early 20th Century. Operatic castrati were practically rock stars in their 18th Century heyday, making huge sums of money. Their powerful soprano/alto voices were highly sought-after by famous composers like Handel and Mozart.
I was born in 1951, and studied Latin at school for two years. I then dropped it in favour of economics. However, when it came to applying to university, this turned out to have been a mistake: I wanted to read history but all the decent universities then required people applying for arts subjects to have Latin ‘O’ Level. I ended up by studying International Relations at UCL.
" Wedding tackle " are the words you were seeking
It was common to castrate young boys in Italy from the 17th century onward so they maintained a high singing voice so they could attain a career in opera or religious choirs. These castrati were very popular and the last known one died in 1922
The Imperial Chinese civil service included many eunuchs - they would present the jars with their pickled bits in at interviews for new positions - I suppose the thinking behind it was that without families or "urges" they could focus more on intellectual and career goals.
I was educated in Britain in the 1970s
I was eleven in 1973 and went to grammar school
and my first lesson was Latin
(The grammar part of the school name was for learning Latin and Greek grammar BTW)
When I was at school over fifty years ago the basic offering of foreign languages was French
and if you went to grammar school you did Latin.
I was ultimately in the natural sciences stream at school
so I got the option of continuing Latin or picking up German.
The Classics stream picked up Greek
and the modern languages stream picked up German along with keeping Latin.
I ended up for the exams studying 300 lines of Virgil's poetry
and 20 chapters of Caesar's Gallic Wars
which I enjoyed and was a great experience.
In the sixth form - the equivalent to the last two years of High School
I focused on Mathematics, Physics and Chemistry and
did an optional studies course in Russian
and we even got to read som Chekhov short stories
as some in the group went on to study for higher qualifications in Russian.
We also had optional German, Spanish and a host of other subjects in the sixth form.
Uk school early 80s. We studied English Language and as a separate course English Literature. We were also taught Latin and French. Some were offered in addition either German or Spanish. Age 11 to 16..
I learned Latin from the age of 8, and had to pass tests in the language in order to get to a prestigious school at the age of 12. I also learned French and German through to 16. Most children in the UK don't learn Latin, these days, but I found it very useful in my deeper study of other languages, and I still call upon it today.
I went to a fairly large high school (3000+ kids). Nearly everyone had to do French but the top classes took a second language in Yr 8. We had choices of German, Spanish, Russian or Latin (I took Latin - half the course was history) - you could also take Greek in Yrs 12 and 13. It became clear that the writers of Dr Who (The Fires of Pompeii) had also done the same course as nearly all the names used in the episode corresponded to those we had been taught.
I did some quick checking - and this is all pretty rough and ready, with lots of assumptions. But based on some rough figures (assuming that pretty much everyone takes Maths and English - which they won't, but it a reasonable baseline) - for GCSE (taken around age 16) in England up to 2018 (the first figures I could find easily) - around 25% of students took French, 13% took Spanish, 10% took German and about 1.5% took Latin - which is actually more than I anticiapted - just less than 10,000 pupils.
Oh I think your having a Sir Humphrey moment there James 🧐
Quid tempora mutatio!
I learned Latin for 3 years and French for 5 years. I did not go to a private school.
Latin was taught as it was recognised that it is the foundation of many languages and remains in use in law and medicine.
One reason given for teaching Latin was that it developed analytical thinking.
My grandfather was educated at Wellington College, and he learned Latin. Proper old school!
Did Latin, French and German at school. Latin was great for a grasp of grammar and an insight into word origins. It helped for French, too.
left school in 95 and we had french or german. no spanish. even though 95% of students had been to spain but never been to france or germany. i think latin was only taught in grammar or private schools.
I was fortunate enough to go to go to a Primary School (ages 5-12) where it was compulsary to take, on top of English, introductory levels of French, German, Latin and Classical Greek. Why? It was to give the students CHOICE of later continuing at Secondary School (High School) as separate subjects OR simply, to better understand our main language, English. English has absorbed so many words from German, French and Latin (plus Latin is the language of many branches of Science eg Botany, Astronomy, Medicine). Oh, also other languages such as Norse, Celtic. So, if you are to better understand origins of words, you really need a background in those languages.
When I applied for a particular Secondary School, my parents and I were interviewed personally by the Headmaster who conducted part of the interview in French and also switched to Latin and German. (I think he spoke about 6 languages) It was also explained that the school was an academic school and, other than for keeping fit and healthy (healthy body, healthy mind), sports were NOT a major focus. Nor were Trades (eg Woodworking class, metal shop etc) and that if I were interested in those pursuits then perhaps a different school should be sort. Very blunt! lol.
He also said that their school produced Doctors, Accountants, Engineers, Scientists, University Professors, Diplomats, Politicians and Teachers. All aimed at academic and financial success. He re-iterated that the focus was on academic success.
All during school I thought I was "average" at best, only ranked about half-way in the class. What hadn't dawned on me was that most of the students had been duxes of their various primary schools! Our pass rates in National exams were around 98%. It was only after University that I began to realise the opportunities that the schooling I had, had provided in everyday life.
In Czechia, latin is needed for medicine and law, so they have those. But in here (this series) - it was part of classical education, in all countries - rhetorics, classical greek, classcal latil, philosophy, et c.
There's a quote: "power without responsibility, the perogative of the harlot...", Sir Humphrey is just flipping the quote.
I went to a Grammer school in the UK during the 1970's. We learned French, German and Latin until I was 14 and the time came to choose the subjects I wanted to take at 'O' level (national exam taken at 16). I dropped all my languages, except English, as I wasn't very good at them.
The thing is that, despite how bad I was with languages, the knowledge I gained has helped me to at least get the gist of a lot of short written notices when in Europe as most languages are either members of the Romance (like French) or Germanic language families and I can often recognise the roots of a word.
Grammer school?
@@allanpalmer3143 Up until the late 1970's we had selective education in my county. You took an exam at age 11. If you passed it you went to a Grammar School where the subjects taught were primarily academic and meant to prepare you for university and a profession. If you failed you went to a Secondary Modern School, which taught vocational subjects to train you up to enter a trade.
Latin is taught because it is used in medicine universally. All medicine had latin names and therefore doctors in all countries knew what the medicine was.
I was born in 1958 and in junior and senior school we learnt either french or german i learnt french through out both my schools
I was taught Latin and French at school, then when we were a little older we could ALSO learn Russian or German. Maths involved using slide-rules and trigonometry logarithm tables. Calculators were rudimentary at that time and, in any case, were considered cheating.
never worked out how to use a slide rule, OK with logs
And of course this transfer from the 'town hall' or rather the LEAs - local education authorities actually came to pass. The National Currciulum (all schools had to follow it nationally) was introduced by the Education Reform Act of 1988. Further money for schools now mainly comes from the government directly to individual schools, or Academies as they are called now, by passing the LEA and their old control of the money.
Latin was a required course at my high school for the first two years, and an option thereafter. We started French in Junior school (age 7-11) at the age of 9 or 10, and this was also a required language in high school up until age 15-16. There was an option to ADD German at age 13 or so if your program was going to be humanities (liberal arts)-based but not if you wanted to study chemistry, physics and biology. Spanish was an option as a course in 6th form (age 16-18). The first opportunity to stop Latin was at age 14 when you had to basically choose a scientific or humanities-based set of options for your General Certificate of Education "O-Level" exams. (I am showing my age here as these became GCSE exams sometime later).
Choices like these and what courses were required differed quite a lot depending upon the kind of high-school you attended. I entered high school at the age of 11 in 1972. In those days there was an national examination called the "11 plus" which basically filtered out the top 10%-20% of academically proficient kids and sent them to "Grammar Schools". These schools often modelled much of their curriculum, attitude and rules on those of a British Public School, though most did not provide live-in accomodation as do most Public Schools. Much more emphasis was placed on academic achievement than sports or vocationally-based "skills" learning. After two years of a set curriculum where all students had to study English, French, Latin, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, Maths, History, Geography, Art, Design & Technology and music, the students would be "streamed" into groups where your abilities (as measured by examination and course work) placed you in a group which added German as a Language but removed a science lesson each week, or one where you dropped Latin and kept the additional science lesson, one where you dropped French and studied Economics instead, or a group which dropped French and also aimed you at a slightly less onerous set of exams called CSEs or Certificate of Secondary Education. These were harder to fail, but carried less weight with University Entrance Boards and, to a lesser extent, with employers.
At the end of that third year you were required to pick options for your examinations, usually 8 or 9 subjects. You HAD to do English language, English literature, maths, as a basis, but depending upon your desires and (mostly) your abilities, you could take additional maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, (or Combined Science if you were looking towards a humaities-based program), French, German, Latin, History, Geography, Art, D & T, Music, Economics. As an example I took English lang., English lit., French, Maths, Additional Maths, Physics, Chemistry, Biology and History. I had wanted to take Music instead of History but the timetable did not allow that.
After the results of these exams, you could leave school, go to a technical college, start work or enter the 6th Form where you had to choose three (or if you were very lucky, four) subjects for "A-Levels" (Advanced General Certificate of Education). If you intended to apply to a prestige university (effectively Oxford or Cambridge) you could do "S-Levels" as well, either at the same time or optionally staying at school for another year. I did Chemistry, Physics and Maths.
I am sure all this has changed radically now, but for details you would need to ask for comments from the younger generation... I'm 61!
Keep up the good work please!
I attended a grammar school (exam entry) in the early 70's. A Foreign language was mandatory for the full 5 years, it was usually French. But it could be German. Latin was required for the first two years, but you could take it all the way and get a qualification.
You are spot on, when I was in school it was French, German and Latin
When I was at school Latin wasn't an option - the requirement was to do a "Modern foreign language". I think the biggest one was french, probably also Spanish and German, I think I remember there was also Urdu and/or Hindi.
Languages: before I went in the British Army I did French and German at school, my Mother taught me Latin because that is the basis of French and Italian, and my grandfather interested me in Ancient Greek because he was a botanist and before that a legal secretary. For fun I have done Old Norse because that is still spoken in North Yorkshire and the knock on of that is modern Danish.
In terms of usefulness for employment my other grandfather taught me forge work from age 11, basic quarrying and basic stone carving from age 13. At 16 I did a Saturday job working on a market stall and frankly I learned more about mental arithmetic and negotiation and running a small business than I ever did in school.
British schools seem to be created to channel the brightest into university, while ignoring the needs of those who are not going to the 'Halls of Academe'.
Latin is still taught is a few state schools, but rarely now. Up until the 1970s some universities here still asked for it in applicants for some science degrees, such as medicine or pharmacy. Traditionally French was the second language most commonly taught in the UK, but in recent decades Spanish and German have become very popular too. My state school also offered Dutch and Russian along with French, German, Latin and Greek in the 1970s!
Many Scottish schools offer Scots Gaelic as well as French, German and Spanish, with some Scots schools in Gaelic speaking areas teaching all subjects in Gaelic. In Wales, Welsh is also the first language in some areas, so English becomes the second language, but in English speaking areas of Wales, Welsh is widely taught, even to the under 11s.
I should add that some posh private schools (confusingly called 'Public Schools' here) in the UK taught Latin and Greek rather more than in state schools. Humphrey may be just showing off his Public School background or may have studied Classics at university - quite a popular choice for senior civil servants back in the day, probably less so nowadays.
I did French, German and Latin when I was at school [British military and boarding schools].
I did Latin as an extracurricular subject. Mind you, that was in the seventies.
When I was at school, French was a core subject and one of the GCSEs you had to do. German was an additional option later. Latin is normally only taught in private schools. I believe they also have Mandarin as an option now.
Exactly the same at my school. French was forced upon us for some unknown reason. I failed the exam miserably. I've met very few French people and they all spoke English. HOWEVER, some 40 years after leaving school I went to Strasbourg for the day and got lost. I was able to ask a very nice lady (in French) 'Excuse me. Where is the station?' She gave me directions and I understood them. I walked away thinking 'Oh God! All those years ago I was listening after all!'
I think learning Mandarin is very sensible considering the way the world is going...
Latin was taught in Grammar Schools in the 1960s attended by council estate kids like myself.
@@stevenlagoe7808Typical attitude in this country expecting everyone else will learn English.
@@jamesbuckingham.2935 I think it was Helmut Kohl (German Chancellor) who said, "If you want to buy from me, by all means speak English but if you want to sell to me, you'd better speak German."
@@stevenlagoe7808 As a tourist you need to be able to ask for directions and understand the answer, order food which usually only involves reading off the menu and adding the equivalent of 'please' at the end. Being able to ask for the bill also comes in handy. The problem is that if you've rehearsed certain phrases and got quite good at saying them, the locals will assume you are a fluent speaker and go on and on way beyond your level of comprehension.😀
I took Latin, French and German at high school. Some schools had other languages such as Russian, Chinese and Spanish.
Spanish is useful to a lot of Brits as a lot of us holiday in Spain, the Balearics, Tenerife and the Canaries, so we pick some phrases up as we do in Greece, Turkey, Italy, Bulgaria, Egypt, Tunisia, Algeria and Morroco. Not to mention any other European or Scandinavian countries as well.
Latin is the base of many languages and they have similar words in common if spelt and pronounced differently. So if you've done Latin you can figure it out.
The main languages taught are French, German and Spanish. I had to do French and German for 5 years. Latin was only available for very specialised studies
Today, Latin is mainly used in sayings like carpe diem, bona fide etc or for body parts - clavicle, femur etc or by Roman Catholics at Latin mass. As a classroom subject, it’s taught mainly in private schools. Most British schools offer the choice of French, German & Spanish & increasingly Mandarin Chinese (around 13%). The education system in the UK needs reform from top to bottom for the modern era but as cabinet ministers only last about 18 months (if that), there’s no movement on this medium to long term situation.
There is the option of taking the International Baccalaureate but most pupils still prefer the traditional A-level route.
In the UK it was either Spanish or French during high school, at least it was when I was in school, 15 odd years ago. You had the option to do another language.
In my school (UK bog standard comprehensive school - public school to Americans - 10 years ago) the languages on offer were French or German. No Spanish or Latin course at all. I chose German, and very happy that I did so. I can still speak enough German to get me around in Germany, and German was so much easier than French. With German you can actually pronounce the words as they are written once you know the rules. The French stick 11 vowels in one word and pronounce it monosyllabically.
latin was taught in my Grammar school in the 1960's
latin stirs the brain as do all other languages, but latin is beautiful.
We weren’t taught Latin at my High school. Language classes were Welsh, French and German.
Latin is usually taught in private/public schools. In State schools the language learnt was French, but then it seemed to change to Spanish and sometimes German. Remember, many people visit Spain for the annual holiday/vacation.
In the uk Spanish, French, German etc are known as Modern Languages. Living next door to Europe these languages are important.
Latin is needed for those who work in the fields of Science, Medicine, Classics, Language and Law
I was born 1956 and i learned French, German and Latin at school.
In my high school the only language option was French, but I went to one of the worst funded schools in London. A lot of schools at the time offered a choice of two languages, but French was pretty universal.
The school has improved a lot now that it's merged with some of the smaller schools in the area, and a lot of the teachers from those schools were kept. My friend's son goes there, and he's been doing French and Italian for the past two years. He starts Year 9 in the fall, and had the option of adding either Dutch or German, and opted for Dutch. The school also runs a Welsh club after school.
Eunuchs were also employed at the court of the Chinese emperor. As young boys, they had both testicles and penis removed. Indeed, many died as a result of infections.
As for arithmetic, I taught physics and kids could not wrap their heads around the fact that I could do calculations without resorting to a calculator.
I went to a comprehensive school in the UK ( equivalent to a US public school) and we were taught either French or German. There were 9 classes in my year and half were taught french the other half German. No Latin.
I left school in 1982; we had to study Latin and Greek Philosophy :)
Eunuchs were castrated men (castrated as young boys, usually) and they could be used to guard harems as you said, but in some civilisations (most famously, but not exclusively, Imperial China) they also held important places at court. Hence, they had "responsibility without power": they could attend to matters of state, but they couldn't necessarily enforce it since they didn't have ultimate say and neither could they sire children the way the emperior could. Sir Humphrey's implication of comparing Mr Hacker to a eunuch is obvious for other reasons.
In Britain in Secondary (High) School, in my day - I don't know what it's like now - the first foreign language was French, the second one German. For the top classes, Latin was in addition to this. It is a very bad idea to start learning a foreign language at 12 - it should be started in Primary school.
Yes, I was taught Latin, and ancient Greek :-)
A point also about the harem. The word harem simply means women, plural of herma, woman. Islamic architecture has separate areas for male and female members of the household. Wives, sisters, daughters, aunts and cousins and grandma, and female visitors if there are any. In most households, they only segregate when they have company. Yes, in the Byzantine period there probably were a few households with multiple wives and concubines, but the same word also describes a large extended family. The western connotations of the word aren't necessarily correct, aren't helpful, and may even be bordering on racist.
In 90s middle of nowehere state school...French, German, Spanish, Latin, or Russian
During my years in teaching, it came as a great shock to me to realise that school-leavers entering further education for vocational studies were unable to construct a sentence from points of grammar and punctuation. I suspect this poor level of literacy still goes on. It's interesting to note that some universities now provide remedial English classes for their students.
I went to a state comprehensive school in Wales in the 1970s/80s, and took Welsh, French and Latin. My school also offered German but, as it didn't fit with the other subjects on my timetable, I ended up teaching myself German instead.
Well I was in school back in the 80's and while I did Classical Studies Latin was not on the curriculum. Private schools may have been different.
Connor, it's a shame that Americans don't learn English? Mind you, today many English are clueless too! I learnt French from 7 to 18 years and German from 15 to 17. I only did German because our teacher looked like, Eva Ruber Steir. Take a look? We could opt for Latin later on but it wasn't compulsory as I only went to a Grammar School.
Chinese Imperial Eunuchs were often young men, not children, who had often already fathered some children; if they survived the operation they invariably retained their parts and pieces in jars that they insisted were buried with them to signify they were whole men in death, if not in life.
Latin is one of the most important languages because it is the bedrock of scientific taxonomy. It's a universal language free from any adulteration (English V American English for eg) Every species on the plantet is described and named in latin for this reason. It is an absolute. As a spoken language however, it is of course redundant, but this does not detract from its importance. In science, terminology has direct links to the origins and meaning of words which all of us take for granted today. For example: Helios & Helianthus is the latin name for Sunflowers, orginating from the Greek god of the sun. I learnt latin at school, but it had no relevance until I chose botanical science & zoology as my career. Other scinces follow the same language origins.
Now what is offered is usually French, Spanish and German. Latin is very rare.
I did Latin at Grammar school in 1952. Compulsory then.
Almost no state schools (public schools in US terms) teach latin.
I learnt English Latin and Ancient Greek ... on the ground that as we invaded all our allies and enemies they ought to know English already. Except Rome and Ancient Greece.
Surely people have to learn Latin, or how could you communicate with those in Latin America? And yes, I learnt Latin for 6 years during my secondary school time, as well as ancient Greek. This was in the 1980s and not in the UK
The picture of a late 19th century Chinese eunuch ... it is all gone.
Latin is the basis of many words commonly in use today. Sometimes you can work out the meaning of a word if you took Latin at school. Unfortunately I didn't!
The point of the 3-Rs is to teach you to think, not use a smart phone or calculator. With my daughter's generation, the teachers added "estimating" so that obviously mistaken calculator results weren't accepted at face value, unless you are an economist of course ;-( In my childhood, we had the last Latin teacher in the entire school district, but we were a top notch HS. As unusual HS languages go, Russian was in favor when I was in HS, later it was Chinese. There was a brief revival of Latin at Preppy HSs in the 80s, just like plaid skirts and saddle shoes.
They do Latin in English schools all schools reintroduced in 2012. It is mandatory.
Since virtually everyone in the UK spends their holidays in Spain (the UK weather is crap and Spain is the total opposite) and virtually everyone in the US spends their holidays in the US, I'd argue that Spanish is even more important for Britons to learn
Everyone should learn how to do maths the "normal" long way, as with the manufactured "energy crisis" going on, there may be no more electricity to go around to charge your phone to do the math let alone all the electric cars the monsters want us to have! Commifornia is already in an energy crisis and asking people not to charge their cars too often! lol
Always best to have something to fall back on.
Typical secondary schools in my day offered French and German as standard. My son was offered a choice between French and Spanish. Latin & Classical Greek weren't offered as standard.
I did Latin, German and French from ages 11 to 15
The general idea of teaching/learning Latin was 2 fold. At the time many/most well educated people would know/understand Latin, it was the language you could resort to when you had no other common language, German was often used for Math/Maths this use has been overtaken by English. The other use is to understand grammar.
The basic reason it is still useful to have some arithmetic even when calculator are common and reliable (which they weren't at this time) is the ability to estimate the answer. It means you can have some idea, something is not right, when the result is an order of magnitude too big or small. Or the calculator uses reverse Polish notation.
The only reason I know any Latin is because I'm a Catholic! We didn't do it at all as a language, just a few bits in RE
Don't make a promise you have no intention of keeping.
Yup, I learned Latin from age 8 to age 16. I never use it now.
Latin is mainly beneficial to lawyers and doctors .🇬🇧
I did Latin and French. The Latin helps with crosswords.
We had Latin, as a base language, it wasn’t an option, and choice of two other languages, from, French, German, Spanish, Italian or Mandarin,
there was mainly two ways to become a eunuch - they could either have just their testicles removed or the whole package removed depending upon the country and culture and their was a 3rd variation in which everything was left intact but they just crushed the testicles making them useless and infertile
I don't know what they offer today but when I was at school it was French and German. I did a bit of both, hated them and didn't bother after3rd year.
Latin and greek as traditionally taught in British schools are ancient languages, dating from the ancient civilisations of Greece and Rome. They are also supposed to give you some knowledge of classical history and literature. Hence, Sir Humphrey and, in real life, Eton-educated politicians such as Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees-Mogg, are able to come out with apt quotations from classical authors. Medieval latin as used by the Roman church after the classical period was never not part of the curiculum.
It is a mistake to imagine that the classical languages of latin and greek were ever taught as alternatives to modern languages: they were/are separate and alongside.
Usually French, then German, occasionally Russian (Latin is more your Public Schools!)🤣🤣👍
I used to learn French back in the day. I hated it so much, I never used to try to learn it. Just wasn’t interested. I think when you have a child at school you need to do subjects they are interested in, something to grab their passion and interest. Get the most out of them. But stay with the 3 R’s Reading, Writing, and Arithmetic.
I studied French and German at high school. I knew only one boy who studied Latin.
If you had kept your mouth shut, we might have thought you were clever. One of Mark Twain's sayings was exactly the same, but said slightly differently. Twain said, Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you're a fool, than open it and remove all doubt. In the UK Latin is taught mostly in Public Schools (what the US calls Private schools) and is a prerequisite subject for anyone wanting to follow a medical career.