DID THE MESHTASTIC UK MEDIUM FAST TEST WORK?
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- Опубліковано 6 вер 2024
- So after testing the medium-fast meshtastic mode in my area I've decided to go back to long-fast... here's why!
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This the same as what happened with p2p file sharing networks. Every node/client would flood the network when searching the network but with nodes going off line or saturated bandwidth. This may it imposable to grow the network size. We had a p2p network with pack loss and high latency. The network would be come fragmented in to much smaller networks. The solution was to have clients and hubs.
Clients which had high uptime and good connects would be automaticity promoted to Hub mode and when in this mode all traffic for the P2P would be handled by the Hubs in regards to the p2p network. Meshtastic should implement some thing similar, First step I think would be keep a node in "client mute" if uptime is less then one hour and if node is moving around automatic set to "client mute" mode. Second step "Client mode" have a delay when resending messages and cancel message if received a second time. Shorter the uptime longer then delay.
anyone remember fidonet dial up bbs's and passing mail overnight with the cheap rate after 6pm phone calls and 'midnight lines', that had great routing. it worked, its known. its stable.
zero reason that tech cant be integrated, but unlike messages only being shuffled overnight, they can shuffle all day
Tomorrow came and went and you left us with a cliffhanger 😂
Of course you'll see fewer nodes *that the point* wasn't it? You only need to see one to be part of the mesh...
Infrastructure (MQTT, repeaters (maybe between FM and LM) etc) may be needed in particular areas... it seems absurd to expect it to work as an SMS replacement 'out of the box'.
The internet (and then the web) was good in the early days when it was mainly people with a bit of a geek tendency -- now that everyone is on it, the noise over-powering the signal is huge.
Obviously, Meshtastic needs to auto switch between modes in the background without notifying the users to get messages through the mesh. They need to mesh across modes silently in the background to facilitate throughput on the mesh as a whole. That would clear up a lot of congestion. Bluetooth does the same thing, I believe at 50,000 frequency changes per second, do Bluetooth is crazy fast at switching without the user ever knowing it. I don't care if my message got through on long/fast or medium/fast or any other mode.
Murica!
No idea what the project is planning on this front but frequency hopping is an integral part of how Bluetooth the technology works in the first place to manage interference on the busy 2.4 GHz band. Maybe LoRa has some mechanism for this but I’d presume you’d have to have modems designed to do what your talking about in a way that doesn’t drop signals or you’d have to schedule out switches so that radios are listening for the right type at the right time. Given the transmission times for relatively small volumes of data you might trade some significant amounts of time in latency of sending something as it cycles back around for the best mode for the message.
Agreed 👍
In South London I didn't get a single node when I switched to MF.
On LF I easily get 20-50 nodes but of course Traceroute or messaging rarely works.
Exactly the same for me on the South coast. On LF I had just under 100 nodes, on MF I couldn't get a single one.
Here in Norfolk I "see" a few beacons from Holland and France on 868 long-fast, I did try medium-fast for a while but did not receive anyone. (just a 6dBd omni by an upstairs window)
In my opinion the problem is protocol and routing. If it can deliver some messages to a node, it just needs to keep trying instead of losing some messages.
Congrats. Liked. All the best.
Thanks Andy, look forward to your next video with the teaser at the end.
Hopefully as a community this can work best for majority but i do think many have unrealistic expectations and want instant gratification
I think it's time for a fork of the firmware to try some of the ideas people are proposing on here.
I can see around 100 to 120 nodes in a town of 400,000 people (SE England). Some have switched over to MF but I don't think we notice any difference. One of the things I feel that does mess up network are 1watt nodes which I know a few people are using, some with preamps and some without which I think skew the network. I predicted months ago MT is not fit for purpsoe without the ability to manually route and even have a backhaul say on 433MHz (interconnect two boards). Oddly I do have a node on a church and one on a 750ft hill. MT is dead until we can can have routing, I can TR a node I see directly and 10 TR and 10 different routes going through nodes which are sat in holes. MT is a good idea but it needs manual intervention.
Maybe Meshtastic need to do something like APRS in the routing department...
It‘s open source, go for it.
All the locals agreed to change on Saturday ,and we could still work each other as before. As far as i am concerned i would like to have 100% (or near to) local contacts and i dont give to** about stations 50-100 km away. I think 433 on a non standard freq is for me and my locals.
Andy Paul in Orpington great video your so right the beacons are so good I’m getting in to Essex Leigh on sea in Kent in to Chatham and Rochester and a node in Buntingford I agree long fast is better I did loose 50% of my nodes I had about 250 I got 119 but it’s starting to increase
Keep up the great work you doing on the channel
What's that case you've got Andy, is it a heltech with a Keypad? Looks funky!
Mesh will also work better if people keep their nodes on up to date firmware. In the north West there are some nodes with brilliant coverage but old firmware. As a result it hides the mesh topology as hop count us not properly supported.
Will MEDIUM/FAST relieve congestion and allow more nodes to participate in more densely-used areas?
Andy I think you should do a video on the new ofcom variation as an intermediate licence holder I've had my foundation and intermediate call sign slightly changed and had an increase on power it also says spectrum brought into line with other users I'm guessing we've lost spectrum but it doesn't say what we have lost and the intermediate call sign change is a little confusing I now have to use a regional identifier but it doesn't say where or how and I thought I was using one anyway with the 2e0
I ran across these 1 watt lora radios built for Meshtastic named Station G2. I figured I'd mention that now that I have one on order.
That looks like it has a maximum output power of a bit over 3W, which is far in excess of the legal limit on 869.525mhz. Assuming the Meshtastic firmware doesn't limit the output, you'll likely be creating one way traffic since nodes far away will receive you but be unable to transmit at high enough power to be received by you. I'm fairly sure the mesh works best when all devices are running at the same power output, as the SNR between two nodes should be roughly the same.
From experience high powered nodes are what have messed up the network for us here in the south east. Unless the TX and RX are symmetrical you are just broadcasting routes you can't achieve. We have a node here which appears in everyones list and after 6 months no one has manged to TR it. Perhaps if you live in the middle of nowhere, but in a town where I'm seeing 120 nodes I think it will cause more harm than good. Personally the more metal you can get in the air the better along with height. Good Luck.
@@RobCanada I had in mind using those like Andy suggested well spaced in high locations. I don't have any of those problems here because I've basically got the space to myself as long as no one fly's over. Have ya'll tried switching to "hidden" instead of "client"? Maybe that would help a little?
@@masondawson4061I think Client_Mute is supposed to be the first thing to try.
I finally got a msg out last night on LF without Max transmission rea he’s error it said acknowledged. The new 2.4 firmware seems to have had impact on LF msg in the north west.
I sense the bottom is about to fall out of this mt experiment soon... regarding this channel, I mean. Since there's now quite a community out there with LoRa hardware deployed, maybe it's worth looking at alternative systems that can be flashed to our devices to keep the experimental going? It's all valuable experience and comparisons.
So appending a short status update to your node name and letting it beacon is still a useful and effective way to communicate across the mesh, by the sounds of it.
Yes 👍🏻
Aprs for ham radio does all this fantastic and the inferstructure is already built
APRS is great I agree, the AFSK modulation is showing its age a bit which is why LoRa goes way way further and cuts through noise better. We now have LoRa APRS and the range is incredible. 😁
To bad, but as is I think its all in the bandwidth available to the network. You just can't as is have thousands in the network.
On the otherhand if the network is small enough it likely works well.
I would bet that if routes or paths were alloted according to traffic at the moment instead of seemingly traffic taking every path possible it might be workable.
good evening, can you please recommend a walkie talkie station with which I can communicate with my friends when the telephone network does not work?! thank you in advance ! I'm from Romania
If the issue is 868mhz, wouldnt the answer be the 433mhz? It isnt a ham license required frequency but is perceived as such.
in north america it is licensed
Yes there is an unlicensed data section of the 70cm band in the UK, even speech channels and walkie talkies available legally to use without a ham license on there called LPD443. Many car fobs were on 433 originally but there was too much interference preventing vehicle access in some areas.
@GamingKing545 we are talking about the UK, NOT the USA. So really unsure of what the point is you are trying to male when the USA has a different set of frequencies for LoRa
I believe the reason 868mhz was the primary adopted frequency in the UK is there's a lot of other things already running on 433mhz. Home weather stations, I think some of the smart meters have the gas meter communicate with the electricity meter that way too, etc etc. So on paper it would be better, but there's a lot of existing interference on the frequency. I think that was the reason anyway. Probably be good outside of cities and urban areas though
@@irreverend_ smart meters use 868, in the UK it's mainly used for IoT (Internet of things)
What about better acknowledgement confirmation and a few (just a bunch) automatic retry of messages that haven't successfully sent over 15 mins.
Don’t forget any mobile devices on client mute
Yes, didn't mention this time 🤦🏻♂️
I tested medium fast from Thursday to yesterday static and mobile. I didn't see one other node around west Yorkshire when mobile and had nothing on my static node
Hey just found your channel its really interesting! I have a question that i xan never find the answer too! On the bogist c1 pro scooter how do we make it display in MPH?.. many thanks for any help in advance!
We just need the hero who implements auto mode switching. (Why even call it modes, just listen to all of them and repeat the same way)
Unfortunately the sx126x LoRa chips can only listen for one spread factor at a time, so I believe it's a hardware limitation. LoRa gateways can receive multiple, using what they call a LoRa concentrator, I think the sx1301 and sx1302. A quick look suggests those might set you back about £100.
@@irreverend_but we don't need that. Just two or three cheap nodes on different modem settings, communicating by Bluetooth or WiFi so that they share the work. Or am I being naive? 😂
@@PaulTaylor1 That could work I think, although they'd be better connected via serial than Bluetooth. I think the issue there would be that it would be a big undertaking for the dev team to add something like that when they're still working out the routing on a single channel. Plus you'd still need everyone to be running multi transmitter nodes, and they'd still cost £60+ I suppose. I mean it'd be nice, but I don't think it's feasible at this point?
It's all fun and games until we switch modes!
I really enjoy the snappier speeds of MF. I think I will stick with it.
Long moderate 😂 on 433 the radio amateurs are using this ;)
Sounds good, which exact freq? Do you know?
Not sure why this isn't being used, it's not licensed required but seems many youtubers who everyone jumps on the bandwagon with, pushed 868mhz.
I'm not putting down Andy at all, he's been somebody I've really liked.
Also people's expectations all seem to be "instant gratification" and total lack of patience.
As a community hopefully we can make this work for the majority.
@@andykirby frequency override 434.1
@@davem902existing interference from a smart meters and other home smart devices I think was the reason 433 wasn't adopted in the UK. It would be better performance than 868 except for it already being a busy frequency is what I've read in several places. I do have a 433 on order though to check locally, I'm not in a city so it would probably be quite good here
Snap
I added the card key board to my Heltech V3
problem is you need mass adoption, only 5% of nodes tried MF in our town. massive fail. hopefully the new 2.4.0 firmware will be better?
IMO, Meshtastic would benefit by having a mode that allows (say) single line messages at a maximum of five messages per day. These could be repeatedly broadcast with the same robustness as the node/beacon information and without taking too much bandwidth. At least then people would have some message capability that works. Going forward, this could be expanded as new ideas emerge. Otherwise, I see Meshtastic withering on the vine and disappearing. What do others think?
Agreed, I suggested it a while ago and encouraged users to put a message in their long name, quite a few adopted this approach!
@@andykirby Agreed. I was thinking of something simple but similar to this that would pass messages into the message list rather than potentially be lost in the long list of nodes. I'm looking forward to your next video on additional frequencies.
Zero nodes whilst on MF
Look at reticulum over LoRa
There rubbish. No one ever answers???