Omg please i would love an extremely detailed graph of how all the damage calculations happen! Edit: also if you could expand a bit more on how blackflame plays into the calc. Thank you! You’re awesome! :D
Edit: Corrected math. Originally had ignite as 125% base fire damage dealt OVER 4 seconds when it should be 125% base fire damage PER second OVER 4 seconds. Blackflame converts the damage taken from ignite to chaos damage but does not convert the damage you deal to chaos damage. Ex: 1000 Fire Damage Hit --> 1250 Fire Damage Ignite per second over 4 Seconds. Typically this damage would then be affected by the enemy's Fire Resistance. If the enemy has 50% Fire Resistance then you deal 675 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds (50% reduced damage taken). If the enemy has -50% Fire Resistance then you deal 1875 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds (50% increased damage taken). With Blackflame equipped this changes the Ignite damage from Fire to Chaos, but only that it is taken by the enemy as Chaos damage, not that you deal Chaos damage. This distinction is important as modifiers to chaos damage on you will not affect the ignite damage. Instead, the example becomes 1000 Fire Damage Hit --> 1250 Fire Damage Ignite per second over 4 Seconds taken as Chaos Damage. This now ignores the enemy's Fire Resistance and instead deals damage based on their Chaos Resistance. If the enemy has 50% Chaos Resistance then you deal 675 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds taken as Chaos Damage (50% reduced damage taken). If the enemy has -50% Chaos Resistance then you deal 1875 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds taken as Chaos Damage (50% increased damage taken). This is useful as you can stack Increased Chaos Damage Taken through Wither (6% Increased Chaos Damage Taken per Wither stack, up to 15 stacks), and generally, enemies have less base chaos resistance than elemental resistance. For an example calculation let's assume the following stats: 1000 Base Fire damage from Fireball, +1000 Flat Added Fire Damage, 100% Increased Fire Damage, 100% Increased Spell Damage, 100% Increased Burning Damage, 100% Increased Chaos Damage, 50% More Elemental Damage, 50% enemy Fire Resistance, 0% Enemy Chaos Resistance, and 100% Increased Chaos Damage Taken on the enemy. For the sake of simplicity I am not including the 6-12% Fire Damage Over Time Multiplier from Blackflame. Base Damage: 1000 base Fire Damage from Fireball + 1000 Flat Added Fire Damage = 2000 base Fire damage (flat added damage gets added to the base damage for scaling ailments). From here the damage splits into hit and Ignite. Hit: 2000 Base Fire Damage * (100% Increased Fire Damage + 100% Increased Spell Damage) = 6000 Fire Damage * 50% More Elemental Damage = 9000 Fire Damage * 50% Fire Resistance = 4500 Fire Damage total from the hit. To put that into the calculation formula: 2000 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.5) = 4500 Ignite Against Fire Resistance: 2000 Base Fire Damage * 1.25 (new ignite value) = 2500 Fire Damage * (100% Increased Fire Damage + 100% Increased Burning Damage) = 7500 Fire Damage * 50% More Elemental Damage = 11250 Fire Damage * 50% enemy Fire Resistance = 5625 Fire Damage from Ignite per second over 4 Seconds. The combined damage over 4 seconds from your Hit and Ignite is 27000 Fire Damage. To put that into the calculation formula: 2000 * 1.25 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.5) = 5625 Now for the calculation with Blackflame Equipped. Ignite Against Chaos Resistance: 2000 Base Fire damage * 1.25 = 2500 Fire Damage * (100% Increased Fire Damage + 100% Increased Burning Damage) = 7500 Fire Damage * 50% More Elemental Damage = 11250 Fire Damage * 0% enemy Chaos Resistance = 11250 Fire Damage * 100% Increased Chaos Damage Taken on the enemy = 22500 Fire Damage Taken as Chaos Damage per second over 4 Seconds. The combined damage over 4 seconds from your Hit and Ignite is 94500 Damage. To put that into the calculation formula: 2000 * 1.25 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.0) * (1 + 1) = 22500 In this example the total damage over 4 seconds from the Fireball hit and Ignite is quadrupled with Blackflame equipped. However, it is worth noting that Blackflame has the added mod "50% reduced Ignite Duration on enemies". This does not change your ignite damage per second but it does reduce the total damage your ignite will deal by 50%. This isn't necessarily a huge deal as long as you are able to hit and apply an ignite at least once every 2 seconds. Things to Note: In the stats section I have 100% increased Chaos Damage as a player stat but it is not factored in anywhere. I did this to indicate that modifiers to chaos damage dealt by the player does not impact the ignite damage with Blackflame equipped. Resistance plays a huge roll in the total damage dealt. Reducing enemy resistance, as well as damage penetration (for hits only), significantly increases your damage, but does have diminishing returns as you stack more and more. Modifiers to ignite duration do not change your DPS but they do affect the total damage dealt by the ignite. 50% increased ignite duration means your ignites will deal a total of 750% of base fire damage over 6 seconds (125% base damage per second * 6) and 50% reduced ignite duration means your ignites deal 250% of base fire damage over 2 seconds (125% per second * 2). Increases and reductions to the speed at which ignite burns will affect both your DPS and the duration of your ignite. 10% increased ignite burning speed (usually written as "Ignites you inflict deal damage X% faster) means your ignites will deal 600% base fire damage over 3.6 seconds. This example applies for Poison and Bleed as well with their respective damage types.
@@JohannesDichtmann I edited my comment a little. I originally had ignite as 125% base fire damage dealt OVER 4 seconds when it should be 125% base fire damage PER second OVER 4 seconds. Basically the damage got multiplied by 4 but the principle remains unchanged.
A question: Does Deadeye´s Far Shot scale the ignite damage from Fire Ball? If I understand the video correct it will ONLY do more HIT damage and not increase the Ignite damage. Is that correct?
just wondering will the new burning arrow exstra fire damage stack for more ignite damage? (thinking of making a burning arrow build with the snipe helmet) and golems are still not worth it i guess? :(
Depends on what you mean, it has been perfectly playable in 3.15, it just lost a good chunk of damage. They've reverted the internal CD of fire burst back to 1 second though, so it'll feel a bit smoother. Dps wise it should work out to be around the same as in 3.15 though, like most ignite skills. The main difference being that at both very low and very high investment, ignite builds should be noticeably stronger than before.
I've always assumed Perfect Agony works best with poisons since they stack. I would just get a decent amount of crit chance and role with EO. If we are doing Crit Ignite you might as well just do hit damage instead.
Not bad per se, but requires a lot more investment than normal ignite builds which have always been severely point starved. And transferring all the burden onto your items doesn't seem like a good idea, at least in my book. Will see though, might come back to my old build after all.
Going Occultist? Your ignite still deal Fire damage with Blackflame, the enemies take Chaos damage, so the only benefit would be -20% chaos res, but NOT the 15% more chaos damage... with Elementalist you get 25% more ignite damage + 30% more from Heart of Destruction + ton of extra base damage with damage as extra modifiers, especially if you convert few times and use Atziri flask. All you get from Occultist is double curse with non-proliferating explosions... So elementalist will deal more damage even with Blackflame.
Always really like seeing all mods that will scale different archetypes. And really like seeing more archetype guides more than specific builds. More of this badger!
The trick is ignite isn't a spell. Ignite is benefiting from the spell's base hit, but only scaling from ignite stats. The spell that hits will scale from the spell's scaling stats, but that has nothing to do with an ignite. Ignite isn't part of the spell, it's just a result of the spell hitting a target and activating an ignite from a generic chance.
@@Patchumz im confused why POB doesnt go up in DoT with Spell damage if the scaling of of the Ignite is based on the damage of the hit? Stronger hit = stronger damage over 4s right?
Amazing vid. I am casual player, playing one build each league and I haven't tried any cold/fire dot builds yet. Very helpful for people that don't know how the mechanic work. P.S. A detailed spreadsheet would be great :D
Glad I watched this video before league start. I was debating whether to go Assassin or Elementalist for a Flameblast Ignite build. I did not know that crit was applied to hit damage after determining the ignite strength.
My starter isn't set in stone until after patch notes, but I'm thinking probably Ignite going with Armageddon Brand (Probably toss Flamesurge on for single target). Not 100% on which ascendancy I'll choose as there are several good ones, but I'm sure it'll work out just fine. Going to be nice to be able to have added flat fire without worrying about EE.
Critical hits improve Ignite damage by 50% like standard hits would. Check lvl 1 Witch Fireball if you don't believe it. That said, it is said to scale additively with sources of Fire DoT multiplier. This does not improve with critical strike multiplier, of course, without the Perfect Agony Keystone.
Hey Badger, while preparing for 3.17 I revisited this video and noticed you didn't tackle the Replica Emberwake interactions with Ignite mechanic. Can you elaborate some explanation about do's and dont's regarding this ring? I find it a bit confusing how to correctly analyze the "real" damage you're getting from ignite when you mess with its duration. For optimal DPS do I want to spam cast my spell against the boss or should I "wait" ignite duration to cast it again?
I do want to nip something in the butt regarding the image at 5:45. You don't say it but people (including me initially) may think you imply this by using the image so I want to clarify: x% Increased [Fire, generic, Elemental, Damage Over Time, Burning, Ignite, Ailment, Elemental Ailment] Damage all stack additively with each other. Increased Burning Damage is not a separate step in the calculation and does not stack multiplicatively with other sources of increased damage. The image is accurate for what applies for hits, what applies for ignite and what applies for both. But not quite for the calculations. Other than that, great video, will be sure to check it again when the skill tree is out and I am planning my Herald of Thunder Ignite dreams. (Assuming I don't find something sweet for Wintertide.) Or maybe I will be checking an extremely detailed graph by that time. Would love to see that myself.
So just your thoughts on what I would like to league start. An earthquake chif with 100% conversion to fire ( avatar of fire + gloves + passive on the tree ) while using a staff maybe hedgemony's era and now i understand that RT is the way to go. I think with the right investment i could get about 2-3m dps while scaling phy damage and phys to fire + ignite multi, just wondering if it's worth it, to me it would be because i like tanky characters. Ty for your gr8 video.
Awesome work, Badger! You are becoming my favorite POE content creator. Continue like this and you will be even more successful. Your channel is already so much better then many others.
thinking of an ire build with call of the brotherhood, and the % phys to cold conversion mastery node. Elementalist be it crit or non crit. herald of thunder/purity/ice+hatred(essence worm). Huge ignite+freeze on "content". Wear abbaraths for chain ignites or an impulsa chest too for the dumbest mechanic meld.
Last minute questions ;D % minion damage works with ignite right? using "spiritual aid" passive.? also if i have 0 energy shield using the agnostic. do i count as full? or low energy shield or none of them? i would asume i count as full. which would be nice with "defend with 120% of armour while not on low energyshield"
Forgive me if I'm being pedantic, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is an error in your order of operations for applying your increases to damage. Your diagram has 50% fire/elemental/generic increased applying to the base damage and then splitting off into Hit and Ailment whereas that should come after. The reason I bring that up is in this case you are factoring in the 50% fire/elemental/generic increased as a multiplicative with other increased modifiers (spell damage and projectile damage for the hit, burning damage for the ignite) instead of having it as additive with those modifiers. This obviously won't matter if the remaining modifiers are all multiplicative but it will matter when calculating with other additive modifiers. I know this is just an example so apologies for being pedantic but I thought it was important to make that distinction.
Would love to see more of these damage calculation overviews, maybe even defensive calculation overviews. I learned alot by breaking the damage down to its components!! Thank you for this video!
Isn't it a bit misleading that you show the "50% fire, elemental, generic increased" step before the "Impact on enemy" step? The base damage the ignite is based on is actually not 1710 dmg right? It's 1140. If it was 1710, and then the %fire dmg was applied to the ignite dmg too, it would be double dipping, wouldn't it? I think it technically works in your schema, since you're then omiting the fire/ele/generic dmg and just listing things that only apply to the ignite, but imo, it's the wrong way to think about it. The ignite is just based on the flat dmg, and then it gets scaled by everything that affects the ignite.
I would like to suggest an honorable mention on ascendancy tiers. Occultist. Since, stacking curse effectiveness is a good way to scale damage now, and occultist has free malediction, free chaos resistance decrease, wither, and free power charge generation, it becomes a solid choice. An example setup: high base damage Hexblast + despair self cast + temporal chains aura+ blackflame ring, can deal a lot of damage with ignite. And considering there are a few good doom options added as eseence amulet and stuff, this setup is kinda buffed in this league. Also, since hexblast does not deal fire damage, you can still apply elemental equilibrium if you can get it from skin of lords or something with the help of some added cold/lightning damage. Go even higher, and get the exposure helmet on animate guardian for even more fire resistance decrease.
PoB says "%increased elemental damage with attack skills" increases ignite damage with explosive arrow though. is that because it increases the base explosion? if it doesn't scale the ignite damage but the base, shouldn't it work like proj dmg or spell dmg if it was a spell? i guess its special since there are no "elemental damage with spells" it counts as just "%elemental damage" that applies to attack ignites?
I just found your channel and really liked how you explain things, I been wanting to try a build to support my friends more but im not sure how to go about it, is there any way I could get some tips? I was thinking of going templar guardian but I do appreciate any suggestions
hi, i am a bit confused on one thing regard this top. You mentioned '-fire resistance on enemies' will apply to fire damage overtime at 2:48, but also you said 'fire penetration applies to the hit will not applies to ignite and damage over time' at 7:49. Could you clarify it a bit more. Thanks!
The ignite damage is based off the base hit damage of your spell not the actual damage it does when it hits? And that's why penetration doesn't matter?
So, a support gem that gives more elemental damage will increase both hit and ailment but one that gives more spell damage will only increase the hit? So now that ignite scales harder from base, is it better to focus on support gems that scale both even if unoptimal? Like for example Inspiration and Lifetap
depends on the playstyle, if you just ignite with the skill once every 4 seconds and use the other time to move forward or dodge, hit damage has nearly no impact.. only for rapid striking builds like poison builds, hit dmg might be a little help on top of the DoT
Jebaited me when u make the point that ignite damage can never be converted to chaos damage then talk about blackflame later - I get that 'taken as' and 'converted to' are subtly different but I feel trolled
it's because you are not dealing chaos damage, so you cannot scale your chaos damage dealt, however you can apply wither which increases the chaos damage they take. it's pretty weird to wrap your head around. it's similar to your own phys damage taken as elemental stat, basically giving the enemy 100% of fire damage taken as chaos
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Omg please i would love an extremely detailed graph of how all the damage calculations happen!
Edit: also if you could expand a bit more on how blackflame plays into the calc. Thank you! You’re awesome! :D
Yes, we want :)
Edit: Corrected math. Originally had ignite as 125% base fire damage dealt OVER 4 seconds when it should be 125% base fire damage PER second OVER 4 seconds.
Blackflame converts the damage taken from ignite to chaos damage but does not convert the damage you deal to chaos damage. Ex: 1000 Fire Damage Hit --> 1250 Fire Damage Ignite per second over 4 Seconds. Typically this damage would then be affected by the enemy's Fire Resistance. If the enemy has 50% Fire Resistance then you deal 675 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds (50% reduced damage taken). If the enemy has -50% Fire Resistance then you deal 1875 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds (50% increased damage taken).
With Blackflame equipped this changes the Ignite damage from Fire to Chaos, but only that it is taken by the enemy as Chaos damage, not that you deal Chaos damage. This distinction is important as modifiers to chaos damage on you will not affect the ignite damage. Instead, the example becomes 1000 Fire Damage Hit --> 1250 Fire Damage Ignite per second over 4 Seconds taken as Chaos Damage. This now ignores the enemy's Fire Resistance and instead deals damage based on their Chaos Resistance. If the enemy has 50% Chaos Resistance then you deal 675 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds taken as Chaos Damage (50% reduced damage taken). If the enemy has -50% Chaos Resistance then you deal 1875 Fire Damage per second over 4 Seconds taken as Chaos Damage (50% increased damage taken). This is useful as you can stack Increased Chaos Damage Taken through Wither (6% Increased Chaos Damage Taken per Wither stack, up to 15 stacks), and generally, enemies have less base chaos resistance than elemental resistance.
For an example calculation let's assume the following stats: 1000 Base Fire damage from Fireball, +1000 Flat Added Fire Damage, 100% Increased Fire Damage, 100% Increased Spell Damage, 100% Increased Burning Damage, 100% Increased Chaos Damage, 50% More Elemental Damage, 50% enemy Fire Resistance, 0% Enemy Chaos Resistance, and 100% Increased Chaos Damage Taken on the enemy. For the sake of simplicity I am not including the 6-12% Fire Damage Over Time Multiplier from Blackflame.
Base Damage: 1000 base Fire Damage from Fireball + 1000 Flat Added Fire Damage = 2000 base Fire damage (flat added damage gets added to the base damage for scaling ailments).
From here the damage splits into hit and Ignite.
Hit: 2000 Base Fire Damage * (100% Increased Fire Damage + 100% Increased Spell Damage) = 6000 Fire Damage * 50% More Elemental Damage = 9000 Fire Damage * 50% Fire Resistance = 4500 Fire Damage total from the hit.
To put that into the calculation formula: 2000 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.5) = 4500
Ignite Against Fire Resistance: 2000 Base Fire Damage * 1.25 (new ignite value) = 2500 Fire Damage * (100% Increased Fire Damage + 100% Increased Burning Damage) = 7500 Fire Damage * 50% More Elemental Damage = 11250 Fire Damage * 50% enemy Fire Resistance = 5625 Fire Damage from Ignite per second over 4 Seconds. The combined damage over 4 seconds from your Hit and Ignite is 27000 Fire Damage.
To put that into the calculation formula: 2000 * 1.25 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.5) = 5625
Now for the calculation with Blackflame Equipped.
Ignite Against Chaos Resistance: 2000 Base Fire damage * 1.25 = 2500 Fire Damage * (100% Increased Fire Damage + 100% Increased Burning Damage) = 7500 Fire Damage * 50% More Elemental Damage = 11250 Fire Damage * 0% enemy Chaos Resistance = 11250 Fire Damage * 100% Increased Chaos Damage Taken on the enemy = 22500 Fire Damage Taken as Chaos Damage per second over 4 Seconds. The combined damage over 4 seconds from your Hit and Ignite is 94500 Damage.
To put that into the calculation formula: 2000 * 1.25 * (1 + 1 + 1) * (1 + 0.5) * (1 - 0.0) * (1 + 1) = 22500
In this example the total damage over 4 seconds from the Fireball hit and Ignite is quadrupled with Blackflame equipped. However, it is worth noting that Blackflame has the added mod "50% reduced Ignite Duration on enemies". This does not change your ignite damage per second but it does reduce the total damage your ignite will deal by 50%. This isn't necessarily a huge deal as long as you are able to hit and apply an ignite at least once every 2 seconds.
Things to Note:
In the stats section I have 100% increased Chaos Damage as a player stat but it is not factored in anywhere. I did this to indicate that modifiers to chaos damage dealt by the player does not impact the ignite damage with Blackflame equipped.
Resistance plays a huge roll in the total damage dealt. Reducing enemy resistance, as well as damage penetration (for hits only), significantly increases your damage, but does have diminishing returns as you stack more and more.
Modifiers to ignite duration do not change your DPS but they do affect the total damage dealt by the ignite. 50% increased ignite duration means your ignites will deal a total of 750% of base fire damage over 6 seconds (125% base damage per second * 6) and 50% reduced ignite duration means your ignites deal 250% of base fire damage over 2 seconds (125% per second * 2).
Increases and reductions to the speed at which ignite burns will affect both your DPS and the duration of your ignite. 10% increased ignite burning speed (usually written as "Ignites you inflict deal damage X% faster) means your ignites will deal 600% base fire damage over 3.6 seconds.
This example applies for Poison and Bleed as well with their respective damage types.
@@JohannesDichtmann I edited my comment a little. I originally had ignite as 125% base fire damage dealt OVER 4 seconds when it should be 125% base fire damage PER second OVER 4 seconds. Basically the damage got multiplied by 4 but the principle remains unchanged.
@@superseriouspoe8515 Man do more videos, dont give up.
@@superseriouspoe8515 you're the man
Would love a detailed, large image for planning a build
A question: Does Deadeye´s Far Shot scale the ignite damage from Fire Ball? If I understand the video correct it will ONLY do more HIT damage and not increase the Ignite damage. Is that correct?
That is correct....Far Shot is projectile damage.
just wondering will the new burning arrow exstra fire damage stack for more ignite damage? (thinking of making a burning arrow build with the snipe helmet)
and golems are still not worth it i guess? :(
Will that make fire burst playable like it was in 3.14? It's the build I enjoyed playing the most, so chill and smooth
Depends on what you mean, it has been perfectly playable in 3.15, it just lost a good chunk of damage.
They've reverted the internal CD of fire burst back to 1 second though, so it'll feel a bit smoother.
Dps wise it should work out to be around the same as in 3.15 though, like most ignite skills.
The main difference being that at both very low and very high investment, ignite builds should be noticeably stronger than before.
I'm a bit confused about attack based ignites and hrimsorrow, are attack based ignites better now? Example being ice crash ignite
Depends..... Spells scale themselves and Attacks need good weapons and accuracy.
Thinking about doing Earthquake Ignite elementalist myself.
What about crit ignite w/ Perfect Agony? Is that just a bad idea?
I've always assumed Perfect Agony works best with poisons since they stack. I would just get a decent amount of crit chance and role with EO. If we are doing Crit Ignite you might as well just do hit damage instead.
Not bad per se, but requires a lot more investment than normal ignite builds which have always been severely point starved. And transferring all the burden onto your items doesn't seem like a good idea, at least in my book. Will see though, might come back to my old build after all.
Like
yes, pls do deeper dive into _everything_ that scales
Excellent video, Badger! I am planning on an ignitey DoT build for league start and I learned some cool things here :) Thanks!
Taking the information you presented from your powerpoint presentation into PoB turned this from a good guide into a great guide.
With EE nerf hoping GGG ignores Blackflame. Ignite Occultist is a thing now.
Don't forget Vaal Blight
Going Occultist? Your ignite still deal Fire damage with Blackflame, the enemies take Chaos damage, so the only benefit would be -20% chaos res, but NOT the 15% more chaos damage... with Elementalist you get 25% more ignite damage + 30% more from Heart of Destruction + ton of extra base damage with damage as extra modifiers, especially if you convert few times and use Atziri flask. All you get from Occultist is double curse with non-proliferating explosions... So elementalist will deal more damage even with Blackflame.
This was the best PoE video I have seen in a while. I really understand Ignite so much better, and its clear that I didn't before^^ More of this
Please make a discharge build, im begging you! low to extreme budget
Arc is one of my favourite skills in the game. I would 100% be up for league starting an ignite Arc Elementalist!
A detailed, large image would be nice for planning a build
Agreed!
Second that
Detail diagram plz! Love the vid, really helps in understanding skills and passives better
Always really like seeing all mods that will scale different archetypes. And really like seeing more archetype guides more than specific builds. More of this badger!
Would be perfect with a graph of the scalings!
Scourge league? more like.. Scorch league- ammirite?
I didnt know this. You would think a spell has spell damage, until told otherwise
The trick is ignite isn't a spell. Ignite is benefiting from the spell's base hit, but only scaling from ignite stats. The spell that hits will scale from the spell's scaling stats, but that has nothing to do with an ignite. Ignite isn't part of the spell, it's just a result of the spell hitting a target and activating an ignite from a generic chance.
@@Patchumz im confused why POB doesnt go up in DoT with Spell damage if the scaling of of the Ignite is based on the damage of the hit? Stronger hit = stronger damage over 4s right?
@@Patchumz but isn't ignite damage based off of the hit landed? And the more spell damage, the higher the damage of the ignite causing hit.
@@dennism.5145 No, it has worked like that before the DoT rework like 2 years ago, but the hit is completely irrelevant to ignite damage currently.
@@Failzz8 interesting!
We need a graph on dmg calculations and affective/non-effective stats for any build, tbh...
Amazing vid. I am casual player, playing one build each league and I haven't tried any cold/fire dot builds yet. Very helpful for people that don't know how the mechanic work.
P.S. A detailed spreadsheet would be great :D
Man you put out so much quality content. Honestly, your channel deserves so much growth.
Ignite EQ elementalist new meta
Going to bed watching
Great video, thank you! You may have convinced me to go Arc Ignite Ele. I'd love to see your thoughts on that(or any other ignite build tbh!).
Badger can you please update your Ignite elementalist discharge build when 3.16 comes out.
this makes me wanna redo the divine ire ignite elementalist i did back in heist, might wait for pob updates to start to craft some trees
Why do people use divine ire? Is the flat dmg ramp that high?
@@astronemir Divine ire and discharge were used for ignites for that
Hey Badger, Could you do one of these on shock? There isn't any in-depths guides for it on youtube.
"some small things about the tree" Oh man... this didn't age well XD
YEP haha
@@ThisisBadger You've got to wonder if they did that on purpose, LoL.
Glad I watched this video before league start. I was debating whether to go Assassin or Elementalist for a Flameblast Ignite build. I did not know that crit was applied to hit damage after determining the ignite strength.
My starter isn't set in stone until after patch notes, but I'm thinking probably Ignite going with Armageddon Brand (Probably toss Flamesurge on for single target). Not 100% on which ascendancy I'll choose as there are several good ones, but I'm sure it'll work out just fine. Going to be nice to be able to have added flat fire without worrying about EE.
You are on an absolute tear of good content. Thanks
Critical hits improve Ignite damage by 50% like standard hits would. Check lvl 1 Witch Fireball if you don't believe it. That said, it is said to scale additively with sources of Fire DoT multiplier. This does not improve with critical strike multiplier, of course, without the Perfect Agony Keystone.
Hey Badger, while preparing for 3.17 I revisited this video and noticed you didn't tackle the Replica Emberwake interactions with Ignite mechanic. Can you elaborate some explanation about do's and dont's regarding this ring? I find it a bit confusing how to correctly analyze the "real" damage you're getting from ignite when you mess with its duration. For optimal DPS do I want to spam cast my spell against the boss or should I "wait" ignite duration to cast it again?
I do want to nip something in the butt regarding the image at 5:45. You don't say it but people (including me initially) may think you imply this by using the image so I want to clarify:
x% Increased [Fire, generic, Elemental, Damage Over Time, Burning, Ignite, Ailment, Elemental Ailment] Damage all stack additively with each other. Increased Burning Damage is not a separate step in the calculation and does not stack multiplicatively with other sources of increased damage. The image is accurate for what applies for hits, what applies for ignite and what applies for both. But not quite for the calculations.
Other than that, great video, will be sure to check it again when the skill tree is out and I am planning my Herald of Thunder Ignite dreams. (Assuming I don't find something sweet for Wintertide.) Or maybe I will be checking an extremely detailed graph by that time. Would love to see that myself.
So just your thoughts on what I would like to league start. An earthquake chif with 100% conversion to fire ( avatar of fire + gloves + passive on the tree ) while using a staff maybe hedgemony's era and now i understand that RT is the way to go. I think with the right investment i could get about 2-3m dps while scaling phy damage and phys to fire + ignite multi, just wondering if it's worth it, to me it would be because i like tanky characters. Ty for your gr8 video.
Awesome work, Badger! You are becoming my favorite POE content creator. Continue like this and you will be even more successful. Your channel is already so much better then many others.
Hmm... Archmage - Elementalist - Innocence staff (battlemage) ignite build may be a nuking bombshell, right? :)
thinking of an ire build with call of the brotherhood, and the % phys to cold conversion mastery node. Elementalist be it crit or non crit. herald of thunder/purity/ice+hatred(essence worm). Huge ignite+freeze on "content". Wear abbaraths for chain ignites or an impulsa chest too for the dumbest mechanic meld.
Last minute questions ;D
% minion damage works with ignite right? using "spiritual aid" passive.?
also if i have 0 energy shield using the agnostic. do i count as full? or low energy shield or none of them?
i would asume i count as full. which would be nice with "defend with 120% of armour while not on low energyshield"
Forgive me if I'm being pedantic, and correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there is an error in your order of operations for applying your increases to damage. Your diagram has 50% fire/elemental/generic increased applying to the base damage and then splitting off into Hit and Ailment whereas that should come after. The reason I bring that up is in this case you are factoring in the 50% fire/elemental/generic increased as a multiplicative with other increased modifiers (spell damage and projectile damage for the hit, burning damage for the ignite) instead of having it as additive with those modifiers. This obviously won't matter if the remaining modifiers are all multiplicative but it will matter when calculating with other additive modifiers.
I know this is just an example so apologies for being pedantic but I thought it was important to make that distinction.
Would love to see more of these damage calculation overviews, maybe even defensive calculation overviews. I learned alot by breaking the damage down to its components!! Thank you for this video!
Isn't it a bit misleading that you show the "50% fire, elemental, generic increased" step before the "Impact on enemy" step? The base damage the ignite is based on is actually not 1710 dmg right? It's 1140. If it was 1710, and then the %fire dmg was applied to the ignite dmg too, it would be double dipping, wouldn't it?
I think it technically works in your schema, since you're then omiting the fire/ele/generic dmg and just listing things that only apply to the ignite, but imo, it's the wrong way to think about it. The ignite is just based on the flat dmg, and then it gets scaled by everything that affects the ignite.
I would like to suggest an honorable mention on ascendancy tiers.
Occultist. Since, stacking curse effectiveness is a good way to scale damage now, and occultist has free malediction, free chaos resistance decrease, wither, and free power charge generation, it becomes a solid choice.
An example setup: high base damage Hexblast + despair self cast + temporal chains aura+ blackflame ring, can deal a lot of damage with ignite.
And considering there are a few good doom options added as eseence amulet and stuff, this setup is kinda buffed in this league. Also, since hexblast does not deal fire damage, you can still apply elemental equilibrium if you can get it from skin of lords or something with the help of some added cold/lightning damage.
Go even higher, and get the exposure helmet on animate guardian for even more fire resistance decrease.
Sort of wondering if the Ignite/Discharge Elem i played a few leagues ago would work well next league. That build seemed so comfortable to play.
PoB says "%increased elemental damage with attack skills" increases ignite damage with explosive arrow though. is that because it increases the base explosion? if it doesn't scale the ignite damage but the base, shouldn't it work like proj dmg or spell dmg if it was a spell?
i guess its special since there are no "elemental damage with spells" it counts as just "%elemental damage" that applies to attack ignites?
So, do you think is viable/doable an Elementalist Discharge/Ignite (like few leagues ago) as starter build ?
Currently trying a flameblast elementalist with Energy Blade and Cadigans Crown, Ive thrown a bit of currency on it will let people know how it goes
I just found your channel and really liked how you explain things, I been wanting to try a build to support my friends more but im not sure how to go about it, is there any way I could get some tips? I was thinking of going templar guardian but I do appreciate any suggestions
Can u please make vid about possible ignite builds like u said discharge, arc fireball etc etc etc? even 1 long vid will be helpful than 3-4 different
hi, i am a bit confused on one thing regard this top. You mentioned '-fire resistance on enemies' will apply to fire damage overtime at 2:48, but also you said 'fire penetration applies to the hit will not applies to ignite and damage over time' at 7:49. Could you clarify it a bit more. Thanks!
Badger, good video, but you should have recommended the fire skills with which ascendancies.
That's crazy! I always thought spell damage affects ignite because it increases the initial hit damage of fireball?
This is super useful. I need this detail to understand how things work. Just plug and play Poe guides don't teach me about the base mechanics
Hi man what a starter build will be good for 3.16 ??? volatile dead? or something on ignite ... Divine ire?
thinking about discharge chieftain, is it leaguestart viable without redblade banner or does it feel too clunky to pull off without ?
battlemage use the staff dmg too but will only work if the spell is phys or you have conversion phys>elemental.
Oh my god, I needed this video like 3 months ago :P thanks for actually going through calcs
Damn such good quality content, bummer content creation didn't make enough money to keep it going.
I knew I'd seen a video on it. Figured it was yours, and it's the top result on poe ignite mechanics as well :D
The ignite damage is based off the base hit damage of your spell not the actual damage it does when it hits? And that's why penetration doesn't matter?
Some small things about the tree, eh? Looks at Scourge Reveal, massive changes to the skill tree... ok LoL
This league has me wanting to make a Flame Wall primary build :3 Probably supported by Rolling Magma lol
Just keep in mind that flame wall does burning damage and not ignites c:
Watching thisba year later, shock scales ur ignite as long as the shock was scaled before the ignitr and then during
If flat damage increases ignite why is DD black flame played with lvl 1 DD
Do you think without ee, Eye of Malice is dead?
planned on going scorching ray this league, this should be helpful.
I don't care about anything else, is Fireburst Ignite better or worse next League?
flat fire damage to spells only works with elementalist though right?
Will eternity shroud work with ignite while playing elementalist?
This was awesome! Please do one for bleed :D with other helpful debuffs
i hope this video gets 100000 millionn hundred thousand views
I am thinking I may return to my volatile dead elementalist build.
item what say your chaos damage can ignite freze and shock ? i dont remember name
This is soo good. Thanks for explaining this. *subscribing*
Ty great vid looking forward to try Incinerate league start
Thanks for this video, rly nice explanation
no, u can convert the ignite dot dmg by using the unique ring to become chaos dmg
@This is Badger attack damage does not exist? not mentioned even once
Do you have any builds I can use for upcoming league ?
So, what your saying is I'm going to be farming Oni first thing again?
Edit: Watch whole video before commenting lol
One thing in this video is not true at all... Can you spot what it is? ;))
will new ee work for me if i use hex blast linked with flat cold damage?
Hey I'd love a big chart that shows the scaling!
Surprised that it doesn't talk about ignite duration
13:30 covering enemies in ash is now on fire mastery too, from what i saw??
I didn't like EE anyways. Always felt odd.
I'm just hoping firestorm feels good
I'm definitely gonna try arc ignite elementalist
So, a support gem that gives more elemental damage will increase both hit and ailment but one that gives more spell damage will only increase the hit? So now that ignite scales harder from base, is it better to focus on support gems that scale both even if unoptimal? Like for example Inspiration and Lifetap
depends on the playstyle, if you just ignite with the skill once every 4 seconds and use the other time to move forward or dodge, hit damage has nearly no impact..
only for rapid striking builds like poison builds, hit dmg might be a little help on top of the DoT
@@ersatzbank3129 but that's only assuming that in general DoT supports are stronger right?
What an excellent informative video..
How do spells that Shotgun work with Ignite such as Blazing Salvo or maybe something like Firestorm with spell cascade.
You have one ignite for every shotgunned projectil, but only the highest ignite does dmg.
Someone forgot about blackflame...
any start alloy ideas for tornado fire damage?
Jebaited me when u make the point that ignite damage can never be converted to chaos damage then talk about blackflame later - I get that 'taken as' and 'converted to' are subtly different but I feel trolled
they are extremely different
it's because you are not dealing chaos damage, so you cannot scale your chaos damage dealt, however you can apply wither which increases the chaos damage they take. it's pretty weird to wrap your head around. it's similar to your own phys damage taken as elemental stat, basically giving the enemy 100% of fire damage taken as chaos
Don't know if it would work now. But my favorite (1.3) build was DOT, ice shot with Three Dragons helm turning cold into Ignite. It was awesome.
Gimme the sexy big dmg diagramm, i need it!